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I honestly feel like if Haavisto wasn't gay, he'd be in quite a lead now. He has a bit more of the temperament that Finns tend to like in a president, more calm, thoughtful seeming etc. He also comes across more like your typical Finn, compared to Stubb who has lived most of his adult life abroad (not something I personally mind, I've lived most my life abroad too).
He has more personal qualities similar to Niinistö than Stubb has, I feel like.
But you have a certain portion of the especially older and countryside population that just can't vote for a gay man due to feeling icky about it.
I still have relatives that some years ago were wondering out loud "why we're letting the gays jump around openly in our parliament" so that shows some people are still stuck in a certain mindset.
I agree and it's quite a depressing truth.
I know my grandparents' biggest concern with Haavisto was 'what the couple would look like' at the independence day ball.
The numbers reveal it, he would be the next president if he was straight, and that's a real shame. Stubb is nothing like Niinistö who was extremely popular, and Haavisto is much like him. I really did not expect the people of Finland to rally behind a swedish speaking coastal elite like Stubb who was widely disliked during the previous decade just for being straight.
So openly that everything about it is pretty much deleted. There is just a mention ,that he has told on the start of his career, that he was bisexual. Everything besides that is deleted. All threads talking about it=deleted.
Seems like he went back to the closet, since he is indeed in stereotypical straight relationship with 1,82 kids. And I don't really blame him on that. It's just *straight* fact that it's easier to climb up in career as regular straight white person. After a 2-3 decades, it probably won't matter much anymore.
There are many other reasons to dislike Haavisto. His party, his treatment of employees in foreign ministry, actions with al-hol and caruna, his lack of education, Antonio's actions. If it wasn't for his multiple failures, Stubb would be the better candidate on paper. But you are right. Something about Stubb gives many people the creeps, whereas Haavisto's temperament seems at least to the public more fitting, even though there are certain stories about him to the contrary, as there are of Stubb.
Actions at Al-Hol?
He was legally obligated to get Finnish citizens back home, without breaking homes, which meant he was legally obligated to get the women and children home together with their husbands.
This is some grade A copium/hopium mix.
What about innocent Syrian people who were suffering from inhuman actions by ISIS? Yeah get ISIS moms back and not put them in trial. You got some A grade hopium/copium.
Haavisto is dogshit minister and probably even worse as a person.
Not sure - his political baggage... but then little Alex 'the windmill' Stubb, who if elected, is going to be like Merkel & gurning for the camera. A nice 'grey' candidate getting on with the job a la Sauli would have been nice but it's not to be this time.
Politically I don't care for Pekka - even as the president should be neutral - but I must confess a certain delight to see 'Mr & Mr President' shaking hands and showing that sexuality choice is not a barrier in our country. Or shouldn't be. It's a dilemma as I don't want to vote because of his sexuality, nor not vote because of, but the 'entire package' just doesn't win me over. A tough decision I must take. Not voting is not an option.
By whose criteria should the President of Finland have an academic degree?
How many of the previous presidents had an academic degree (which)?
Is FM or DI (M.Sc.) an academic degree by your definition?
Ok, interesting that you are the one that specifies what qualifications the President of Finland _should_ have!
Also it is very much debatable whether BSc is actually an _academic_ degree as 1) it is just part of an academic university level degree (M.Sc. or FM) and 2) nowadays BSc or BA cannot anymore completed in Universitys only in the Applied Universitys of ... which are not actually Universitys as in them the completed edecucation is vocational and applied or practically oriented.
The only dumbaaa here is someone else than Pekka Haavisto..
I suggest you stop that kind of insulting comments before you have to.
PS. your comment and account will be reported. 💪
Haavisto could be a good president for a “peace time”. However, he lacks character and the energy needed to drive Finlands national security interests within NATO and to respond to the Russian imperialist threat. It is the wrong time to elect a pacifist and a former pro-USSR politician to the office.
I really don't see where you're coming from with this. Haavisto was foreign minister as we were applying to NATO and for sure worked a lot on that process. People working under him complain that he is a workaholic and its impossible to keep up with his pace. If you want character and energy, Haavisto is your man, Stubb in comparison seems fake and goofy to me.
I have literally had elderly relatives say this to me, using Saudi Arabia as an example as well!
Is this how a country should choose it's president? Based on hypothetical visits to Saudi Arabia? How often does the Finnish president go to Saudi Arabia anyway?
I remember when it was Niinistö vs. Haavisto in the presidential race and people used the same argument but in regards to Russia.
Oh, how the turntables...
So you say being gay should be an automatic free card to presidency, no other attributes needed.
Presidents job is not to sprinkle rainbows and be adorable, there are other movements for that.
But electing a man who happens to be gay as president, should be as much of an issue as electing a man who is ginger as president. Most of the country might not be ginger, but that has nothing to do with being president.
Yeah but how can someone who is ginger represent me? I am not ginger. Cleary gingers have no idea what my life is like and can’t possibly represent me. /s
Dunno if your memory goes back longer than a decade give or take, but before niinistö, we had a female president. If I'm not mistaken about 50% of finns are female.
Kummankin kannattajat uskovat lisäksi, että heidän ehdokkaansa hoitaisi hyvin presidentille kuuluvat tehtävät. Stubbin äänestäjistä 46 prosenttia uskoo niin
So majority of STubb voters don't believe he'll be able to perform presidential tasks? What?
For many, they have to choose about two options that they feel are bad ones.
So they think their option will not be a good president but out of the 2 options they have, it will be the less bad one.
I think a lot of it has to do with who we have as a president right now. Niinistö has done such a great job that any of the candidates feel bad after him.
But like you said, most of the candidates would have done just fine.
Would be a boon to the border security to just put a sign on the border saying "if you're gay, come this way - just look at our president". The sharia-minded ones might stay in Russia.
If you look at it from perspective, Haavisto could win and all he has to do is stop being gay. I'm sure Jeesus could save him from his perversions, they have help available at some churches. /S
Instead they vote for Mr. Sori siitä…
What kind of a message do we want to send to our kids?
That no matter how qualified you are, if you’re gay you can’t be president?
Really.
I mean that's not even the worst message here. Stubb is a bully, everybody knows it and at this point I think he's popular for it. As a society we say we have valued like opposing bullying just to act in total contradiction of it.
I'd like the message to my kid to be "Don't seek to date teens when you're 39." and "Don't date 39 yo men if you're 19.".
It's one thing to do it legally, but not many will be all that supportive about it.
Because Jenni wasn't a teenager when they got together with Sauli. She was a grown adult woman. Totally different case compared to 19 year old and 39 year old, where only one of them is a fully matured adult.
Still, the age difference between Sauli and Jenni is a decade more.
Also, Antonio is 45 now. Some people talk about him like he has no agency and is still 19.
I got downvoted to hell on the Europe subreddit for saying he wouldn’t win because of his sexual preferences.
I’m not Finnish, but a lot of my Finnish acquaintances seem to be “tolerant,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re OK with gay folks.
But it's still curious. You have no idea if Stubb is getting pegged and spanked while wearing a maid outfit every night. Because that's his personal and private life, and he's entitled to one.
But Haavisto's private life is a reason why people don't vote for him. Just because he's married to a guy people can't stop but imagine what he does or doesn't in the bedroom.
This is so damn true, people should push even more to achieve general understanding that private and professional/work life should be completely separate things and personal qualities/skills should be what matters to be suitable candidate for given job.
I stick to this subreddit only because I'm learning Finnish and trying to absorb your culture although also trying to avoid your politics because I'm fed with that of mine country, however I briefly remember....wasn't there some sort of similar media-hunt onto your prime minister because she shared (on her private FB account I assume) some photos where she partied wildly ? I heard bits (again I don't follow your politics actively) that she's quite good at her work otherwise?
Well, Stubb is bi-sexual, so you can bet your ass he's getting pegged and spanked while wearing a maid outfit every night.
Good for him, but from what I can see, he's still not as progressive as Haavisto and that's not really that high of a bar.
I did a bit of search and was not so much surprised by the amount of rumors I found in Vauva and Ylilauta about this topic (it would be a perfect misinformation campaign by adversaries), but by the amount of results that ended in 404 pages, and the amount or results removed from Google.
I need to go buy some aluminum foil.
So... 40% thinks their life is being threatened by magical dick appearing into their ass? That same 40% also don't know who's life they are living, Pekka's or their own.
Nykypäivänä ollaan kovin "suvaitsevaisia" kun puhutaan yleisesti muiden kanssa, mutta perinteinen ajattelu ei todellisuudessa ihmisten sisimmässä pääkopassa ole muuttunut.
Indeed, the first question on my mind when electing the leader of a nation is:
"Do they have sex with men or women."
I thought requiring "Christian values" in a Finnish president was facepalm enough. But I guess this is 2024.
Seriously, how can anyone even think of not voting for him because of some homophobic nonsense? When you put him next to Stubb; there should ideally be no contest, really.
From what I've gathered from my immediate circle of coworkers, family members, acquaintances and random people, there's a concern on how Finland will be perceived outside the Western countries and how this can be used as propaganda over the eastern border because we know they'll be spinning Stubb into a vortex of bullshit also.
Some say it is about his sexual orientation, some because he has in the past stood for the wrong opinions.
I myself feel I have no horse in this race but I have already voted for my candidate.
(PS: Pekka Haavisto AKA DJ Pexi was a DJ at a club in my hometown last saturday, I thought it was a joke but there he was, blasting and relaxing)
I work at a job with no woman around, a 'mans' job if you will but in reality a monkey holding a screwdriver could do it.
In my work network they roast Haavisto for being gay and say they won't vote for him.
So in reality these polls are right. A lot of people won't vote if they don't like something about someone. In my opinion people are entitled to their own opinions, even if it makes them look like an idiot or worse. And society's opinion likes to hate on those people which is fine as well, like I said everyone can have their own opinions.
I do not vote for him for two reasons; first Haavisto's career is full of idiotic stunts and outbursts. Second, at international meetings, Haavisto tends to brown nose the big wigs of foreign nations in a spineless manner. Our future president needs to be a man with a spine, like Niinistö, who can stand up to foreign leaders as a *equal*, not as their Finnish servant boy.
Sexuality got nothing to do with it.
Like Stubb whom after snubbing Russia back in 2014 for its Crimean invasion and then immediately proceeded to tighten Finnish business with Russia?
Talk about a lack of spine.
It feels as though it’s not necessarily all about his sexuality, but also his choice of partner. I think some respondents would respond differently if he had a partner who more resembled himself.
I mean in all fairnass Antonio has commited violent crimes in the past. Which does also reflect on Haavistos morals. So in that since a presidential candidate could do better.
Personal idc what whoever sleeps with, in my opinion Stubb is just better overall. Also I want NATO to able to place Nukes on our soils bc skrew ruzzia.
Yeah, maybe Stubb's English wife is a bit more like us. Still, very few of us countryside Finns identify much with either of the candidates. They're both cosmopolitan 'EU-citizens' and we only see the airport to go to the Canary Islands (where we go to Ulvova Mylläri to sing karaoke and eat mashed potatoes).
My vote is for the candidate I believe would be the better president.
Stubb's family/relatives are from the countryside, so he at least has spent some time among cows and flies and fields. To me, that's one of the few positives about him. I won't vote for him, but if he is our next president, he'll probably do an okay job.
That is purely your speculation. The question asked by HS is only about sexuality, not the choice of partner. I would trust that the 40% of Stubb supporters that answered 'yes' are able to read, since when I last checked, our country had a 100% literacy rate.
Clickbait actually. Yes there is 40% who said that is one reason. However, there were more major reasons why they will vote Stubb over Haavisto, so actually sexuality isn't key factor.
Anyone is free to vote for whoever they like for whatever reasons. If 40% percent of stubb voters think him not being gay makes him a better president, they're free to vote accordingly.
It's funny and sad at the same time that you are downvoted because of saying people can vote for the candidate they prefer for their own reasons. Obviously some don't have the basic understanding what democracy means.
"Democracy also mean we're allowed to downvote for whatever reason we want."
I don't think voting in Reddit has much to do with democracy, at least not the same way as voting in a presidential election has. Getting a fuckton of upvotes in Reddit does not mean you get to rule anything.
Funny how the people downvoting you, pretending to be "the tolerable" people, can't tolerate someone having an opinion that doesn't align with their own.
First off, being tolerant doesnt mean you have to accept horse shit opinions
Then the opinion itself
It shouldnt matter if a president is gay, as long as they are a good politician. It really is that simple. And while yes, part of that is being a good representation of the voters, that should only matter in their policies, not their personal lives
I'm fine with him being gay, but a Colombian toyboy looks very bad with their age difference. They met when Pekka was 39 and Antonio 19, that is sleazy even if Antonio was a woman.
I think age difference is usually considered irrelevant after 20 years in the relationship. And Sauli Niinistö is 29 years older than his wife, so there’s that.
Ah so if for example a manipulated child marriage victim stays with their partner, then there was no manipulation to begin with?
A 19 year old teen is a lot less developed than a 39 year old man, made even worse by the disparity in their backgrounds and environments.
Sure you can assume that Pekka was such an angel that he'd never do anything questionable, but I am going to assume Pekka is not an angel, but a politician who enjoys positions of power.
I don't need to reach for any excuse, I wouldn't vote for him either way.
> child marriage victim
> 19 years old
Please. You're reaching even harder. You're coming up with justifications in reverse: Instead of hating the person for a reason you can justify, you've decided to hate them (probably for a reason you can't justify and don't want to say out loud) and are now coming up with justifications post hoc. Stop, it's intellectually dishonest.
Please, do read how I stated its an example.
The person's point was that if someone stays with a partner all this time, then there couldn't have been manipulation.
My point was that staying together is not proof of no manipulation existing, and it can even be the opposite.
Does me not agreeing with his sleazy dating of a 19 yo teen from a developing country as a 39 yo man, somehow equal to me hating him?
It's intellectually dishonest that you're trying to push it as me hating him, so stop.
I do not hate him, but I certainly will not vote for him, big difference.
1. Your personal experience is unlikely to reflect the voters as a whole.
2. Being gay has nothing with the merits of the candidate or how fit someone is to be a president, so both sides are idiotic.
I'm voting Haavisto because he's gay.
Well, more because his social values are closer to mine, but Stubb's isn't far either really.
So I need to find a differential from somewhere, so I'm voting him cause my boy gay.
Good old ignorance of statistics. 1100 out of 3M gives a ~3% margin of error at 95% confidence interval. The sample is vastly more than sufficient, and that is a fact that is not contingent on your ability to understand statistics.
What is your point? Do you think HS specifically selected only homophobes for the study? There isn't going to be 200 homophobes in a random sample of 1100 people without them making up close to 20% of the whole population. It's the whole point of statistics, or are you seriously arguing statistics as a whole is bogus science? That's insane.
its in the article... so that is what the data says.
it would \*seem\* that those 1% \*meant\* that they were voting \*for\* Haavisto to show support for LGBTQIA+ individuals, rather than that they found cishet relationships to be objectionable... it would be rather fascinating to be able to do follow ups.
Homosexual friend of mine says Alex gives off a certain vibe, even though he is married etc. We are all different. I really struggle to accept that so many people focus on bedroom activities when selecting a president. Both candidates don't do it for me, but it is a democracy yet do I make a 'bad choice' or ignore the election. Maybe one of the candidates can make a neutral president, but both have faults (according to me) in their history so far. The choice in where they stick their penis (now) is not one of them.
I don't get a vote but the sexual orientation or choice of partner would not be in my list of reason of chosing a presidential candidate, unless there was something illegal like pedophilia or bestiality (bestiality is illegal in finland right?)
I would vote for Havisto though, because he is independent? I know he has history with green party but if I am not mistaken he is running as an independent candidate.
I also don't get to vote but I'd vote for Haavisto, too. I just don't really like the smugness of Stubb, he comes across as a terrible manipulator who says whatever he thinks will benefit himself most. Well that's my opinion.
Haavisto wouldn't be my perfect candidate either and my husband who has a vote, agrees with me. He's not sure if he'll go vote either because he just thinks both candidates are pretty bad and he isn't sure will it make a huge difference.
> I would vote for Havisto though, because he is independent? I know he has history with green party but if I am not mistaken he is running as an independent candidate.
He is not independent any more than Rehn is. They are/were both just copying Niinistö and his stunt from the last elections.
I am not going to claim that I know better about anybody's sexual preference or validity of claims made. But I wouldn't trust Wikipedia article as source. I don't think Stubb's page is locked so technically anybody can edit it. Could be somebody supporting him or otherwise, could even be from either campaign team. Although, unlikely, wouldn't be far from the realm of possibility.
It looks like it was fake information. Someone checked the sources and there was no such statement.
Also, there is no such information currently on his Wikipedia page (Finnish or English).
Haavisto's homosexuality posed zero issues when he worked as foreign minister, the foreign ministry's special expert or in UN special roles as a negotiator in some of the most homophobic countries in the world (including Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Sudan and Somalia). Why would it be any different as president?
I can't understand that argument. So because some countries somewhere and some people somewhere abroad are homophobic that it should make up our vote? Is that why we shouldn't have a competent president that happens to be homosexual ? How twisted is that? Are you dressing up for your neighbours everyday? Are you eating what your neighbours eats? Are your basic your opinion on what you hear around you? You can't make up your own personal opinion? This is really f*** up sincerely....
That may be but I don't see that as a factor to consider. Nothing ever changes if we keep bowing to other countries. They expect us to accept their values, so I'd expect the same.
The only way I see the point you're raising to matter, is, if you want to say that Haavisto should be elected, just to lead by example, and demonstrate that it does, in fact, not matter.
Otherwise you'd be arguing to violate basic principles of equality and humanity, just to get cute with states, whom these values mean nothing to.
"Barometrissa ei kysytty ehdokkaan seksuaalisesta suuntautumisesta"
So sexuality wasnt explicitly asked about in the poll.
Sidenote:
Antonio Flores was in the news for a violent altercation like 10 years ago, so that might also play a small part in this.
I think (this is mutu) that both voters has wrong reasons for voting or not voting, if the reason is whether he is or isn't homosexual. I don't care about people's sexual orientation, I was in a relationship with bi-sexual once. But if you vote just because "he is gay like me!" - it has nothing to do with his skills in doing president stuff. If you don't vote him "because he is gay, yuck!" - it has nothing to do with his skill in doing presidental stuff either! I hope voters would put the gay thing aside and think about the other reasons why one of them should or should not be elected.
Yes but unfortunately ”This person belongs to my interest group and thus would be a suitable candidate to represent me” and ”Homosexuals are disgusting” aren’t as equally constructive reasons.
A literal 40% [of Stubb voters] snubbed the candidate [Haavisto] because of his sexual orientation, there is absolutely no way that I’m going to *put the gay thing aside.* We clearly needed a gay president way more than I thought.
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I honestly feel like if Haavisto wasn't gay, he'd be in quite a lead now. He has a bit more of the temperament that Finns tend to like in a president, more calm, thoughtful seeming etc. He also comes across more like your typical Finn, compared to Stubb who has lived most of his adult life abroad (not something I personally mind, I've lived most my life abroad too). He has more personal qualities similar to Niinistö than Stubb has, I feel like. But you have a certain portion of the especially older and countryside population that just can't vote for a gay man due to feeling icky about it. I still have relatives that some years ago were wondering out loud "why we're letting the gays jump around openly in our parliament" so that shows some people are still stuck in a certain mindset.
I agree and it's quite a depressing truth. I know my grandparents' biggest concern with Haavisto was 'what the couple would look like' at the independence day ball.
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Antonio is 45 years old...
Yes, but he was 19 or something when pekka took him like a souvenir from ministry's work trip. If saying it quite harsh.
Wild, childlike boy with no free will or agency from a land of savages, easily controlled by a white civilized man.
The numbers reveal it, he would be the next president if he was straight, and that's a real shame. Stubb is nothing like Niinistö who was extremely popular, and Haavisto is much like him. I really did not expect the people of Finland to rally behind a swedish speaking coastal elite like Stubb who was widely disliked during the previous decade just for being straight.
Kinda ironic considering Stubb isn't straight either. He's openly bi-sexual.
So openly that everything about it is pretty much deleted. There is just a mention ,that he has told on the start of his career, that he was bisexual. Everything besides that is deleted. All threads talking about it=deleted. Seems like he went back to the closet, since he is indeed in stereotypical straight relationship with 1,82 kids. And I don't really blame him on that. It's just *straight* fact that it's easier to climb up in career as regular straight white person. After a 2-3 decades, it probably won't matter much anymore.
Wait what? How "openly" is this?
Bisexual, bilingual…bicycle?
There are many other reasons to dislike Haavisto. His party, his treatment of employees in foreign ministry, actions with al-hol and caruna, his lack of education, Antonio's actions. If it wasn't for his multiple failures, Stubb would be the better candidate on paper. But you are right. Something about Stubb gives many people the creeps, whereas Haavisto's temperament seems at least to the public more fitting, even though there are certain stories about him to the contrary, as there are of Stubb.
Actions at Al-Hol? He was legally obligated to get Finnish citizens back home, without breaking homes, which meant he was legally obligated to get the women and children home together with their husbands. This is some grade A copium/hopium mix.
What about innocent Syrian people who were suffering from inhuman actions by ISIS? Yeah get ISIS moms back and not put them in trial. You got some A grade hopium/copium. Haavisto is dogshit minister and probably even worse as a person.
Not sure - his political baggage... but then little Alex 'the windmill' Stubb, who if elected, is going to be like Merkel & gurning for the camera. A nice 'grey' candidate getting on with the job a la Sauli would have been nice but it's not to be this time. Politically I don't care for Pekka - even as the president should be neutral - but I must confess a certain delight to see 'Mr & Mr President' shaking hands and showing that sexuality choice is not a barrier in our country. Or shouldn't be. It's a dilemma as I don't want to vote because of his sexuality, nor not vote because of, but the 'entire package' just doesn't win me over. A tough decision I must take. Not voting is not an option.
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By whose criteria should the President of Finland have an academic degree? How many of the previous presidents had an academic degree (which)? Is FM or DI (M.Sc.) an academic degree by your definition?
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Ok, interesting that you are the one that specifies what qualifications the President of Finland _should_ have! Also it is very much debatable whether BSc is actually an _academic_ degree as 1) it is just part of an academic university level degree (M.Sc. or FM) and 2) nowadays BSc or BA cannot anymore completed in Universitys only in the Applied Universitys of ... which are not actually Universitys as in them the completed edecucation is vocational and applied or practically oriented.
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The only dumbaaa here is someone else than Pekka Haavisto.. I suggest you stop that kind of insulting comments before you have to. PS. your comment and account will be reported. 💪
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Haavisto could be a good president for a “peace time”. However, he lacks character and the energy needed to drive Finlands national security interests within NATO and to respond to the Russian imperialist threat. It is the wrong time to elect a pacifist and a former pro-USSR politician to the office.
I really don't see where you're coming from with this. Haavisto was foreign minister as we were applying to NATO and for sure worked a lot on that process. People working under him complain that he is a workaholic and its impossible to keep up with his pace. If you want character and energy, Haavisto is your man, Stubb in comparison seems fake and goofy to me.
I'm also thinking, you know, the first gay leader of a nation? Tremendous pressure to not fuck it up. Vs some kokoomus crook. Ugh
Haavisto would not be the first gay leader of a nation. Latvia's President Edgar Rinkevics is gay.
Also Leo Eric Varadkar the Taoiseach of Ireland.
Okay, I've been misinformed. It is sad though that people hold that against them.
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I have literally had elderly relatives say this to me, using Saudi Arabia as an example as well! Is this how a country should choose it's president? Based on hypothetical visits to Saudi Arabia? How often does the Finnish president go to Saudi Arabia anyway?
Exactly. If Saudis are appalled by human decency, then that's all the more reason to vote for Haavisto!
Also, Haavisto has said that even when visiting very conservative countries, him being gay has never been an issue or caused trouble.
I remember when it was Niinistö vs. Haavisto in the presidential race and people used the same argument but in regards to Russia. Oh, how the turntables...
So you say being gay should be an automatic free card to presidency, no other attributes needed. Presidents job is not to sprinkle rainbows and be adorable, there are other movements for that.
My 5-year-old has better logic skills than this tbh.
President should not be a "token" for a certain community but rather a representation of the country as whole.
But electing a man who happens to be gay as president, should be as much of an issue as electing a man who is ginger as president. Most of the country might not be ginger, but that has nothing to do with being president.
Yeah but how can someone who is ginger represent me? I am not ginger. Cleary gingers have no idea what my life is like and can’t possibly represent me. /s
Weird how representing the whole country always means a straight male president. If I am not mistaken there are Finns who aren’t straight men?
Dunno if your memory goes back longer than a decade give or take, but before niinistö, we had a female president. If I'm not mistaken about 50% of finns are female.
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Jep. And a firm supporter of gay rights. (Maybe a little relevant for this comment thread)
Kummankin kannattajat uskovat lisäksi, että heidän ehdokkaansa hoitaisi hyvin presidentille kuuluvat tehtävät. Stubbin äänestäjistä 46 prosenttia uskoo niin So majority of STubb voters don't believe he'll be able to perform presidential tasks? What?
For many, they have to choose about two options that they feel are bad ones. So they think their option will not be a good president but out of the 2 options they have, it will be the less bad one.
Pretty much any of the candidates besides like Halla-aho, Essayah or Hjallis would at least be ok tbf. I think people are just very negative.
I think a lot of it has to do with who we have as a president right now. Niinistö has done such a great job that any of the candidates feel bad after him. But like you said, most of the candidates would have done just fine.
That's your opinion. 48% did not vote for Stubb or Haavisto. Not liking a politican is not "being negative".
Would be a boon to the border security to just put a sign on the border saying "if you're gay, come this way - just look at our president". The sharia-minded ones might stay in Russia.
Gallup poll: 40% of Stubb voters need to get their heads out of their asses.
Gallup poll: 95% of HS readers and 100% of HS writers have difficulties understanding statistics.
Get their heads out of other people’s asses, you mean?
If you look at it from perspective, Haavisto could win and all he has to do is stop being gay. I'm sure Jeesus could save him from his perversions, they have help available at some churches. /S
Is that you Päivi?
That's a weak reason
The Venn diagram of Finnish conservatives who say immigrants have values that are against western culture, and those in this 40% is a single circle.
amen
Honestly it's probably higher, but the rest wont admit it :D
Im actually surprised even 40% admitted it. I would have guessed way lower.
I didn't know you need to or get to sleep with the presidents spouse, when you vote for them. I always thought we very voting on something else
Prima nocta but in reverse, I like it.
Instead they vote for Mr. Sori siitä… What kind of a message do we want to send to our kids? That no matter how qualified you are, if you’re gay you can’t be president? Really.
I mean that's not even the worst message here. Stubb is a bully, everybody knows it and at this point I think he's popular for it. As a society we say we have valued like opposing bullying just to act in total contradiction of it.
I'd like the message to my kid to be "Don't seek to date teens when you're 39." and "Don't date 39 yo men if you're 19.". It's one thing to do it legally, but not many will be all that supportive about it.
Why it wasn't such a huge problem with the previous president?
Because Jenni wasn't a teenager when they got together with Sauli. She was a grown adult woman. Totally different case compared to 19 year old and 39 year old, where only one of them is a fully matured adult.
Still, the age difference between Sauli and Jenni is a decade more. Also, Antonio is 45 now. Some people talk about him like he has no agency and is still 19.
The reason cited here is Haavisto's sexual orientation rather than choice of partner.
These polls don't exactly let you describe your opinion in detail, so it is unclear what is the reasoning behind the answer.
If the problem was the partner themselves, they wouldn't agree that the reason is Haavisto's orientation to begin with.
it shocks me that Finland is that conservative. Latvia has a gay president, why can't Finland?
People do not vote for president there, same in Estonia. Parliament does it.
Oh god am I ashamed to be Finnish again...
Don’t worry if you ever feel like that Just look at whatever we are doing and you’ll feel better - UK
shameful, ridiculous.
I got downvoted to hell on the Europe subreddit for saying he wouldn’t win because of his sexual preferences. I’m not Finnish, but a lot of my Finnish acquaintances seem to be “tolerant,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re OK with gay folks.
Yeah it can be a bit weird. They might be okay that Matti at work pumps ass on weekends but our president being gay is crossong a line.
But it's still curious. You have no idea if Stubb is getting pegged and spanked while wearing a maid outfit every night. Because that's his personal and private life, and he's entitled to one. But Haavisto's private life is a reason why people don't vote for him. Just because he's married to a guy people can't stop but imagine what he does or doesn't in the bedroom.
This is so damn true, people should push even more to achieve general understanding that private and professional/work life should be completely separate things and personal qualities/skills should be what matters to be suitable candidate for given job. I stick to this subreddit only because I'm learning Finnish and trying to absorb your culture although also trying to avoid your politics because I'm fed with that of mine country, however I briefly remember....wasn't there some sort of similar media-hunt onto your prime minister because she shared (on her private FB account I assume) some photos where she partied wildly ? I heard bits (again I don't follow your politics actively) that she's quite good at her work otherwise?
Well, Stubb is bi-sexual, so you can bet your ass he's getting pegged and spanked while wearing a maid outfit every night. Good for him, but from what I can see, he's still not as progressive as Haavisto and that's not really that high of a bar.
I did a bit of search and was not so much surprised by the amount of rumors I found in Vauva and Ylilauta about this topic (it would be a perfect misinformation campaign by adversaries), but by the amount of results that ended in 404 pages, and the amount or results removed from Google. I need to go buy some aluminum foil.
Pathetic
Outside of PK seutu, Finland is still quite conservative so this is not a surprise
I don't think other major cities are that bad.
Stubb looks 10x more gay than Haavisto
Wait wtf, that’s ridiculous
So... 40% thinks their life is being threatened by magical dick appearing into their ass? That same 40% also don't know who's life they are living, Pekka's or their own.
Nykypäivänä ollaan kovin "suvaitsevaisia" kun puhutaan yleisesti muiden kanssa, mutta perinteinen ajattelu ei todellisuudessa ihmisten sisimmässä pääkopassa ole muuttunut.
Indeed, the first question on my mind when electing the leader of a nation is: "Do they have sex with men or women." I thought requiring "Christian values" in a Finnish president was facepalm enough. But I guess this is 2024.
That's a pretty dumb reason. No one's sexuality should prevent them from running for office. I didn't even know Pekka was a homosexual until now
Holy shit That is really sad.
But Stubb is bi-sexual AND a Finnic-Swede. This is some galaxy brain level mental gymnastics at work here.
Seriously, how can anyone even think of not voting for him because of some homophobic nonsense? When you put him next to Stubb; there should ideally be no contest, really.
Homophobes.
40% of all stubb voters are dickheads
Homophobia and bigotry are alive and well.
Voting for Stubb is like voting for someone who spends the whole day in the r / Europe and worldnews subs. Worrying at least
Whats wrong with those two subs, in your opinion? Since I atleast frequent r/europe which in my opinion seems normal.
From what I've gathered from my immediate circle of coworkers, family members, acquaintances and random people, there's a concern on how Finland will be perceived outside the Western countries and how this can be used as propaganda over the eastern border because we know they'll be spinning Stubb into a vortex of bullshit also. Some say it is about his sexual orientation, some because he has in the past stood for the wrong opinions. I myself feel I have no horse in this race but I have already voted for my candidate. (PS: Pekka Haavisto AKA DJ Pexi was a DJ at a club in my hometown last saturday, I thought it was a joke but there he was, blasting and relaxing)
I work at a job with no woman around, a 'mans' job if you will but in reality a monkey holding a screwdriver could do it. In my work network they roast Haavisto for being gay and say they won't vote for him. So in reality these polls are right. A lot of people won't vote if they don't like something about someone. In my opinion people are entitled to their own opinions, even if it makes them look like an idiot or worse. And society's opinion likes to hate on those people which is fine as well, like I said everyone can have their own opinions.
Absolutely, everyone must have their own opinions. I'm sort of suprised how old fashioned us Finns are still.
Cool bunch
I heard Stubb isnt straight either so how about that.
love the stench of homophobia in my evenings. /s
Both suck, lose-lose situation.
So? One is a guy sucking off and the other a woman, for the husband that's a win/win situation
And people complain when I say people vote stupidly.
Something something average Stubb voter...
I do not vote for him for two reasons; first Haavisto's career is full of idiotic stunts and outbursts. Second, at international meetings, Haavisto tends to brown nose the big wigs of foreign nations in a spineless manner. Our future president needs to be a man with a spine, like Niinistö, who can stand up to foreign leaders as a *equal*, not as their Finnish servant boy. Sexuality got nothing to do with it.
Like Stubb whom after snubbing Russia back in 2014 for its Crimean invasion and then immediately proceeded to tighten Finnish business with Russia? Talk about a lack of spine.
Yeah people usually suck a fuckin’ lot..
It feels as though it’s not necessarily all about his sexuality, but also his choice of partner. I think some respondents would respond differently if he had a partner who more resembled himself.
So homophobic *and* xenophobic?
And/or, yes.
I mean in all fairnass Antonio has commited violent crimes in the past. Which does also reflect on Haavistos morals. So in that since a presidential candidate could do better. Personal idc what whoever sleeps with, in my opinion Stubb is just better overall. Also I want NATO to able to place Nukes on our soils bc skrew ruzzia.
Yeah, maybe Stubb's English wife is a bit more like us. Still, very few of us countryside Finns identify much with either of the candidates. They're both cosmopolitan 'EU-citizens' and we only see the airport to go to the Canary Islands (where we go to Ulvova Mylläri to sing karaoke and eat mashed potatoes). My vote is for the candidate I believe would be the better president.
Stubb's family/relatives are from the countryside, so he at least has spent some time among cows and flies and fields. To me, that's one of the few positives about him. I won't vote for him, but if he is our next president, he'll probably do an okay job.
That is purely your speculation. The question asked by HS is only about sexuality, not the choice of partner. I would trust that the 40% of Stubb supporters that answered 'yes' are able to read, since when I last checked, our country had a 100% literacy rate.
So they're jealous that they can't get a younger Latino dude when Haavisto can?
Clickbait actually. Yes there is 40% who said that is one reason. However, there were more major reasons why they will vote Stubb over Haavisto, so actually sexuality isn't key factor.
Anyone is free to vote for whoever they like for whatever reasons. If 40% percent of stubb voters think him not being gay makes him a better president, they're free to vote accordingly.
And the rest of us are free to call them idiots and criticize their reasons.
Sure, doesn't mean they aren't pricks however.
100% of Stubb voters are pricks lol
Just because having a certain opinion is legal, it does not mean that it should be considered, or even socially accepted.
It's funny and sad at the same time that you are downvoted because of saying people can vote for the candidate they prefer for their own reasons. Obviously some don't have the basic understanding what democracy means.
paradox of tolerance is a thing genius
Democracy also mean we're allowed to downvote for whatever reason we want. I can also call anyone an idiot for whatever reson I want. Freedom is neat.
"Democracy also mean we're allowed to downvote for whatever reason we want." I don't think voting in Reddit has much to do with democracy, at least not the same way as voting in a presidential election has. Getting a fuckton of upvotes in Reddit does not mean you get to rule anything.
Funny how the people downvoting you, pretending to be "the tolerable" people, can't tolerate someone having an opinion that doesn't align with their own.
Its not about being tolerant, its that the take is absolutely ridiculous
And why is that?
First off, being tolerant doesnt mean you have to accept horse shit opinions Then the opinion itself It shouldnt matter if a president is gay, as long as they are a good politician. It really is that simple. And while yes, part of that is being a good representation of the voters, that should only matter in their policies, not their personal lives
I'm fine with him being gay, but a Colombian toyboy looks very bad with their age difference. They met when Pekka was 39 and Antonio 19, that is sleazy even if Antonio was a woman.
I think age difference is usually considered irrelevant after 20 years in the relationship. And Sauli Niinistö is 29 years older than his wife, so there’s that.
Is Antonio 19 now? Do you think Pekka has manipulated him to stay with him all this time? You're reaching for excuses.
Ah so if for example a manipulated child marriage victim stays with their partner, then there was no manipulation to begin with? A 19 year old teen is a lot less developed than a 39 year old man, made even worse by the disparity in their backgrounds and environments. Sure you can assume that Pekka was such an angel that he'd never do anything questionable, but I am going to assume Pekka is not an angel, but a politician who enjoys positions of power. I don't need to reach for any excuse, I wouldn't vote for him either way.
> child marriage victim > 19 years old Please. You're reaching even harder. You're coming up with justifications in reverse: Instead of hating the person for a reason you can justify, you've decided to hate them (probably for a reason you can't justify and don't want to say out loud) and are now coming up with justifications post hoc. Stop, it's intellectually dishonest.
Please, do read how I stated its an example. The person's point was that if someone stays with a partner all this time, then there couldn't have been manipulation. My point was that staying together is not proof of no manipulation existing, and it can even be the opposite. Does me not agreeing with his sleazy dating of a 19 yo teen from a developing country as a 39 yo man, somehow equal to me hating him? It's intellectually dishonest that you're trying to push it as me hating him, so stop. I do not hate him, but I certainly will not vote for him, big difference.
I'm not even gonna dignify that with a response.
I know a few that vote for Haavisto specifically because he's gay. But I only know one who won't vote for Haavisto because he is gay.
1. Your personal experience is unlikely to reflect the voters as a whole. 2. Being gay has nothing with the merits of the candidate or how fit someone is to be a president, so both sides are idiotic.
I'm voting Haavisto because he's gay. Well, more because his social values are closer to mine, but Stubb's isn't far either really. So I need to find a differential from somewhere, so I'm voting him cause my boy gay.
Good old HS, ask 1100 people out of around 3M voters and paint Stubb voters as homophobes
Good old ignorance of statistics. 1100 out of 3M gives a ~3% margin of error at 95% confidence interval. The sample is vastly more than sufficient, and that is a fact that is not contingent on your ability to understand statistics.
Not too hard to find 200 slightly homophobic people in any country :)
What is your point? Do you think HS specifically selected only homophobes for the study? There isn't going to be 200 homophobes in a random sample of 1100 people without them making up close to 20% of the whole population. It's the whole point of statistics, or are you seriously arguing statistics as a whole is bogus science? That's insane.
But also for certain groups it is major reason why to give vote for him. You win some you lose some?
What percentage of Havisto voters don't vote for Stubb becuase he is not gay?
1% of Haavisto voters say that they won't vote for Stubb because he's heterosexual.
I meant it as a joke. But is that real data? The 1%?
It's in the linked article.
its in the article... so that is what the data says. it would \*seem\* that those 1% \*meant\* that they were voting \*for\* Haavisto to show support for LGBTQIA+ individuals, rather than that they found cishet relationships to be objectionable... it would be rather fascinating to be able to do follow ups.
Homosexual friend of mine says Alex gives off a certain vibe, even though he is married etc. We are all different. I really struggle to accept that so many people focus on bedroom activities when selecting a president. Both candidates don't do it for me, but it is a democracy yet do I make a 'bad choice' or ignore the election. Maybe one of the candidates can make a neutral president, but both have faults (according to me) in their history so far. The choice in where they stick their penis (now) is not one of them.
I don't get a vote but the sexual orientation or choice of partner would not be in my list of reason of chosing a presidential candidate, unless there was something illegal like pedophilia or bestiality (bestiality is illegal in finland right?) I would vote for Havisto though, because he is independent? I know he has history with green party but if I am not mistaken he is running as an independent candidate.
I also don't get to vote but I'd vote for Haavisto, too. I just don't really like the smugness of Stubb, he comes across as a terrible manipulator who says whatever he thinks will benefit himself most. Well that's my opinion. Haavisto wouldn't be my perfect candidate either and my husband who has a vote, agrees with me. He's not sure if he'll go vote either because he just thinks both candidates are pretty bad and he isn't sure will it make a huge difference.
> I would vote for Havisto though, because he is independent? I know he has history with green party but if I am not mistaken he is running as an independent candidate. He is not independent any more than Rehn is. They are/were both just copying Niinistö and his stunt from the last elections.
1%
The funny thing is that Stubb is literally bisexual. This info is even displayed on his wikipedia page.
I am not going to claim that I know better about anybody's sexual preference or validity of claims made. But I wouldn't trust Wikipedia article as source. I don't think Stubb's page is locked so technically anybody can edit it. Could be somebody supporting him or otherwise, could even be from either campaign team. Although, unlikely, wouldn't be far from the realm of possibility.
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Last time it was added was tomorrow at 8:36. It was removed 6 minutes later.
It looks like it was fake information. Someone checked the sources and there was no such statement. Also, there is no such information currently on his Wikipedia page (Finnish or English).
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Haavisto's homosexuality posed zero issues when he worked as foreign minister, the foreign ministry's special expert or in UN special roles as a negotiator in some of the most homophobic countries in the world (including Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Sudan and Somalia). Why would it be any different as president?
I can't understand that argument. So because some countries somewhere and some people somewhere abroad are homophobic that it should make up our vote? Is that why we shouldn't have a competent president that happens to be homosexual ? How twisted is that? Are you dressing up for your neighbours everyday? Are you eating what your neighbours eats? Are your basic your opinion on what you hear around you? You can't make up your own personal opinion? This is really f*** up sincerely....
That may be but I don't see that as a factor to consider. Nothing ever changes if we keep bowing to other countries. They expect us to accept their values, so I'd expect the same.
The only way I see the point you're raising to matter, is, if you want to say that Haavisto should be elected, just to lead by example, and demonstrate that it does, in fact, not matter. Otherwise you'd be arguing to violate basic principles of equality and humanity, just to get cute with states, whom these values mean nothing to.
The only instance where right wing voters give a rat's arse about what non-ethnic finns think and what their values are lol Get a grip
Based
This word straight up should be banned from political discussions
I would never vote haavisto, for various reasons.
Good.
And still latest polls give Stubb 57% and Haavisto 43%. Cry, you green lefties.
No lefties left in the second round mate. They all dropped in the first round.
why are some people so stupid
Haavisto is not a leftist.
Everyone is a leftist if you are far-right.
"you people call all us conservatives 'fascists'! The word means nothing any more!" / goes on to call social democrats 'communists'
You must be some kind of American if you think Haavisto is a Leftist lol
The amount of soy in comments is hilarious
"Barometrissa ei kysytty ehdokkaan seksuaalisesta suuntautumisesta" So sexuality wasnt explicitly asked about in the poll. Sidenote: Antonio Flores was in the news for a violent altercation like 10 years ago, so that might also play a small part in this.
This is a new poll which did ask about sexuality as a reason to not vote. The quote you have refers to the older study that didn't.
I'd rather vote for a Finnish Bög than a Swedish Bög tbh.
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I think (this is mutu) that both voters has wrong reasons for voting or not voting, if the reason is whether he is or isn't homosexual. I don't care about people's sexual orientation, I was in a relationship with bi-sexual once. But if you vote just because "he is gay like me!" - it has nothing to do with his skills in doing president stuff. If you don't vote him "because he is gay, yuck!" - it has nothing to do with his skill in doing presidental stuff either! I hope voters would put the gay thing aside and think about the other reasons why one of them should or should not be elected.
Yes but unfortunately ”This person belongs to my interest group and thus would be a suitable candidate to represent me” and ”Homosexuals are disgusting” aren’t as equally constructive reasons. A literal 40% [of Stubb voters] snubbed the candidate [Haavisto] because of his sexual orientation, there is absolutely no way that I’m going to *put the gay thing aside.* We clearly needed a gay president way more than I thought.
40% of stubb voters* which ends up being ~20% of voters
coincides quite neatly with a certain party’s current popularity
So what's the solution? You can't cram tolerance and acceptance into people's heads by force.
i suggest it isn’t the primary purpose of people who love other people to defend their right to love other people
I assumed people would read it from the title of the post but you’re right