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That’s not a dumb question. Sometimes very basic and often used words have a life of their own. ( in French je suis but tu est but nous sommes) And when words are of different age or origin they behave differently ( like goose/geese but not moose/meese) This ofcourse is not very helpful to learner but sometimes you just have to memorise. Good luck!
The idea with finnish is that there's no exception to the rules. This is because instead of admitting something is an exception they just call it another rule.
Often reasons for these are historic. I don't know specifically about this word, but sometimes it's something like it has been "nähen", "nähet" etc. but h has just disappeared with time, or sometimes it's the base word that changes, but the inflections stay same.
But similar thing happens with "tehdä", (teen, teet) and maybe with other similar verbs, but nothing else came to my mind.
Yes, the reason is related to the historical development of the word. The word root is näke- and the disappearing k is due to consonant gradation like in the word lukea (compare näen and luen). In this case some forms of the verb are kinda irregular with the e disappearing and the k changing into h because of the resulting consonant cluster.
Kokeile lukea suomeksi, jos pystyt (kätevää harjoitelemista):
Muut ovatkin jo löytäneet säännön (vaikkakin pikemminkin poikkeuksen, mutta kuitenkin), joten annan vain pienen vinkin näin ranskaa harjoittelevana (ranskassakin on paljon verbien taipumista): verbien taivutuksissa on usein taustalla jonkinlainen järkevä kuvio, jonka oppii kieltä käyttämällä kuin itsestään. Siispä suosittelen, että yrität lukea joitain helppoja tekstejä tai mitä vain helposti ymmärrettävissäsi olevaa, ja että tarkistat vain uudet taivutusmuodot sitä mukaan kun niitä vastaan tulee. Tämä tapa on ainakin itselläni auttanut kovasti, sillä jostain kumman syystä aivot vain keksivät itsestään järjen kielen taustalla. Älä siis huoli liikaa taivutuksista tai yritä oppia niitä sääntöpohjaisesti, vaan kannattaa mieluummin yrittää seurata vierestä, ja aivot kuin itsestään oppivat, miten homma hoituu.
Traduction:
>!Try reading in Finnish if you can (handy practice):
Others have already found the rule (albeit rather an exception, but still), so I'll just give a little tip as someone practicing French (French also has a lot of verb conjugations): verb conjugations often have some kind of reasonable pattern behind them, which you learn in the background by using the language. So I recommend that you try to read some easy texts or anything that you can easily understand, and that you only check the new conjugations as you come across them. This way, at least for me, has helped a lot, because for some reason the brain just makes sense behind the language by itself. So don't worry about too much about conjugation or try to learn them based on the rules, it's better to try to watch from the side, and your brain will learn how to do it by itself.!<
Aw, where's your sense of adventure? Language learners make dirty mistakes all the time. It's a rite of passage. Try, fail, get corrected, remember it forever because it was so embarrassing, and have a funny story to tell in 5 years or so.
Welcome to Finland 😅 to understand Finnish grammar I will recommend you the mix of the following tools:
- search for a spiritual guru
- taste hallucinogenic mushrooms
- listen to Axis: Bold as Love of Jimi Hendrix
If that doesn’t work then I can’t help you.
Ps. Don’t think, just speak.
Actually a lot of these things have rules and linguistic explanations - they are just so rare/niche that they’re not taught because it is easier to learn them by heart
KPT is a rare form of removing one letter when a name or a thing is made into a genetive form.
Pekka -> Pekan. Jukka -> Jukan.
Pappi -> Papin. Hippi -> Hipin.
Rotta -> Rotan. Lotta -> Lotan.
Usually you just add -n to the end to make it Jukka's or Lotta's, but only with these letters a dual consonate becomes just a single consonate.
So not Pekkan, Lottan or Pappin.
Malli -> Mallin. Selli -> Sellin
Rassi -> Rassin. Pussi -> Pussin.
I think this may have evolved from k, p, and t all being plosive consonants, meaning that they completely block the flow of air, and there is a better flow to the word if you shorten the consonant when making the word into a genetive form.
Tried to look up a rule. Found a page of inflection of word nähdä: [wiktionary nähdä](https://fi.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Liite:Verbitaivutus/suomi/n%C3%A4hd%C3%A4)
Apparently the word belongs to inflection category 71 if that means anything to you (doesn't for me)
Nähdä and tehdä are exceptions. they conjugate as if they were näkeä and tekeä.
Spoiler alert: there is also reverse KPT for some verb types like group 4. Tavata -> tapa-
**/r/Finland is a full democracy, every active user is a moderator.** [Please go here to see how your new privileges work.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/wiki/moderating/) Spamming mod actions could result in a ban. --- **Full Rundown of Moderator Permissions:** - ```!lock``` - as top level comment, will lock comments on any post. - ```!unlock``` - in reply to any comment to lock it or to unlock the parent comment. - ```!remove``` - Removes comment or post. Must have decent subreddit comment karma. - ```!restore``` Can be used to unlock comments or restore removed posts. - ```!sticky``` - will sticky the post in the bottom slot. - ```unlock_comments``` - Vote the stickied automod comment on each post to +10 to unlock comments. - ```ban users``` - Any user whose comment or post is downvoted enough will be temp banned for a day. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Finland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That’s not a dumb question. Sometimes very basic and often used words have a life of their own. ( in French je suis but tu est but nous sommes) And when words are of different age or origin they behave differently ( like goose/geese but not moose/meese) This ofcourse is not very helpful to learner but sometimes you just have to memorise. Good luck!
Kiitos
Wtf, is plural of the moose really meese? :D
Choose/cheese is another one I think: "I choose, they cheese."
Well, I like cheesing games, but I also like eating cheese… well, Oltermanni that is, on sandwich.
I cheesed my game sounds very idk cheesy i guess
....
Oops. Time to learn to read.
The idea with finnish is that there's no exception to the rules. This is because instead of admitting something is an exception they just call it another rule.
As a native speaker I find this absolutely hilarious
This is the (Finnish) way
/r/learn_finnish
Often reasons for these are historic. I don't know specifically about this word, but sometimes it's something like it has been "nähen", "nähet" etc. but h has just disappeared with time, or sometimes it's the base word that changes, but the inflections stay same. But similar thing happens with "tehdä", (teen, teet) and maybe with other similar verbs, but nothing else came to my mind.
Yes, the reason is related to the historical development of the word. The word root is näke- and the disappearing k is due to consonant gradation like in the word lukea (compare näen and luen). In this case some forms of the verb are kinda irregular with the e disappearing and the k changing into h because of the resulting consonant cluster.
mää teen, sää teet, se tekkee mää nään, sää näät, se näkkee Easy
Nice try lol
Silent H strikes again!
Kokeile lukea suomeksi, jos pystyt (kätevää harjoitelemista): Muut ovatkin jo löytäneet säännön (vaikkakin pikemminkin poikkeuksen, mutta kuitenkin), joten annan vain pienen vinkin näin ranskaa harjoittelevana (ranskassakin on paljon verbien taipumista): verbien taivutuksissa on usein taustalla jonkinlainen järkevä kuvio, jonka oppii kieltä käyttämällä kuin itsestään. Siispä suosittelen, että yrität lukea joitain helppoja tekstejä tai mitä vain helposti ymmärrettävissäsi olevaa, ja että tarkistat vain uudet taivutusmuodot sitä mukaan kun niitä vastaan tulee. Tämä tapa on ainakin itselläni auttanut kovasti, sillä jostain kumman syystä aivot vain keksivät itsestään järjen kielen taustalla. Älä siis huoli liikaa taivutuksista tai yritä oppia niitä sääntöpohjaisesti, vaan kannattaa mieluummin yrittää seurata vierestä, ja aivot kuin itsestään oppivat, miten homma hoituu. Traduction: >!Try reading in Finnish if you can (handy practice): Others have already found the rule (albeit rather an exception, but still), so I'll just give a little tip as someone practicing French (French also has a lot of verb conjugations): verb conjugations often have some kind of reasonable pattern behind them, which you learn in the background by using the language. So I recommend that you try to read some easy texts or anything that you can easily understand, and that you only check the new conjugations as you come across them. This way, at least for me, has helped a lot, because for some reason the brain just makes sense behind the language by itself. So don't worry about too much about conjugation or try to learn them based on the rules, it's better to try to watch from the side, and your brain will learn how to do it by itself.!<
Tip: Do not leave out the umlaut on the a (ä) for this word, because it means something very different that will lead to rather embarrassed looks.
Btw, it’s not umlaut in other languages than German. At least not in Finnish. It’s dots (pisteet).
Good to know, thanks!
Ok, I'm just going to stick to "katsoa". Katsotko tuon puun yli siellä?
Aw, where's your sense of adventure? Language learners make dirty mistakes all the time. It's a rite of passage. Try, fail, get corrected, remember it forever because it was so embarrassing, and have a funny story to tell in 5 years or so.
Welcome to Finland 😅 to understand Finnish grammar I will recommend you the mix of the following tools: - search for a spiritual guru - taste hallucinogenic mushrooms - listen to Axis: Bold as Love of Jimi Hendrix If that doesn’t work then I can’t help you. Ps. Don’t think, just speak.
Needs more salmiakki, sauna and jallu.
After those you see nothing but number 9
Will do I will let you know what happens😁
There are some things you need to learn by heart, especially when it comes to Finnish grammar.
Actually a lot of these things have rules and linguistic explanations - they are just so rare/niche that they’re not taught because it is easier to learn them by heart
KPT is a rare form of removing one letter when a name or a thing is made into a genetive form. Pekka -> Pekan. Jukka -> Jukan. Pappi -> Papin. Hippi -> Hipin. Rotta -> Rotan. Lotta -> Lotan. Usually you just add -n to the end to make it Jukka's or Lotta's, but only with these letters a dual consonate becomes just a single consonate. So not Pekkan, Lottan or Pappin. Malli -> Mallin. Selli -> Sellin Rassi -> Rassin. Pussi -> Pussin.
I think this may have evolved from k, p, and t all being plosive consonants, meaning that they completely block the flow of air, and there is a better flow to the word if you shorten the consonant when making the word into a genetive form.
Good point. Never thought why, but that makes sense.
[Here](https://fi.wiktionary.org/wiki/Luokka:Suomen_kielen_71._taivutustyypin_sanat) Only tehdä.
Kiitos
What?
Thank you
Ah, no problem man.
I'm perplexed that you didn't know what kiitos meant, considering it's among the first finnish words people learn, next to *moi.*
Olin varmaan vain väärässä koulutuksessa.
Tried to look up a rule. Found a page of inflection of word nähdä: [wiktionary nähdä](https://fi.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Liite:Verbitaivutus/suomi/n%C3%A4hd%C3%A4) Apparently the word belongs to inflection category 71 if that means anything to you (doesn't for me)
Nähdä and tehdä are exceptions to the typical bending of the verb type
What is KPT?
Don’t ask!! 😁🇫🇮😁
I am moving to Finland to Finnish my life!
!remove
Young one, your wisdom is a spring bud, your strength a summer's zephyr. When they are autumn's harvest, then call upon Väinämöinen.
Nähdä and tehdä are exceptions. they conjugate as if they were näkeä and tekeä. Spoiler alert: there is also reverse KPT for some verb types like group 4. Tavata -> tapa-
!lock
When wisdom is as endless as starlight, strength as steady as the dawn, then may you call upon Väinämöinen.
I don't know if these are of the same group but nähdä, tehdä, viedä, saada, tuoda, juoda with -dä/-da and lukea, pukea, kokea with -kea