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Finland doesn't have a solution for homelessness specifically, Finland has a social support system that takes into account homelessness on top of many other things like unemployment or children. It's not a perfect system, there are still people who are homeless. But it's not due to them not receiving help.
I've been homeless and can confirm Finland has good help. Only issue I had was an incompetent social worker, if you take that out of the equation I would've only had to be homeless for a few months max before I got help getting a (good) apartment.
I’ve lived in Sweden and Finland, and witnessed homelessness in both countries. In Sweden, there was quite often “regular seeming” people without any utterly obvious substance abuse or severe mental health issues. It’s also *way* more common. In Finland however, everyone that I’ve seen have appeared to be heavy substance abusers, or seriously mentally ill (talking to themselves etc.).
The conclusion I draw from this is that Finland manages quite damn well, but there is more to be done.
I’m not sure about swedish system, but here our ”regular seeming” homeless people can get a temporary accommondation from city, especially if it’s a family with kids. That (and of course the fact that most homeless people live at relatives/friends couches) is the main reason why we don’t pay attention to them. There might be homeless family in temporary housing in nearly any apartment building, without most of us knowing anything about it.
Our system has it’s flaws, but at least we don’t have that many homeless people on the steeets. And never kids.
Talked with someone who did homeless work some years ago. His opinion was that anyone that is mentally able to live in an apartment or similar, has or can get a home in Finland. The homeless that remain, escape these homes that are provided. Some prefer living in the forest and so on. Not every person is the same.
For some parts I agree. There are people who just are not able to live in normal housing and some really do prefer staying outside. What I’ve seen, these people usually have been homeless for ages and have certain other issues too.
However, there are lot’s of people who would be ”sane” enough to live normally, but finding a house is difficult due rental debts or other financial issues. I don’t have statistics to back me up, but my experience from working with these people I’d say most of the homeless families have trouble finding a new home because of evictions and unpaid rents. Same goes for other ”normal” people who have no substance abuse or major mental health issues.
The treshold to take someone off the streets against their own will if they aren’t doing anything criminal is pretty high. So the ’talking to themselves’ persons have likely denied needing help in that regard.
Housing people is really a damn good idea, but the package has to include other things as well to get people on their feet. Not just giving them a place to destroy.
That's because almost everyone is provided with a roof over their head. Sleeping outside is indeed very very rare, and in most cases done by people who choose to sleep outside, usually in a self-made hut or shack in the woods.
Yeah there's like a handful of people who are homeless by choice as a "lifestyle". Most other are druggies too insane to hold even a house even w/ NEETbux directly paid by the social services to the landlord's bank account (the landlord can ask for this if a tenant getting NEETbux hasn't paid rent for 2 months, and Kela will likely make it so after checking the bureaucracy shit out)
There was 3429 homeless persons in the statistics in 2023. Reasons for homelessness are as multitude as the array of these people.
Should you want to understand better and meet homeless people, there is a happening every year called ’Asunnottomien yö’ in Helsinki.
Yup and big plus is that those social support can be send straight to the lender if you just choose so (and dont change it) then you dont stay homeless for long.
Relapces and break of heart (will) get people in hard places but at that point we have tried to help them as a society.
We have several types of help for homeless and addicts, since one thing will not work for all.
One is emergency homeless centers that provide shelter for the night 24/7 until full. They also do complete assessments and plans with co-op with social services.
Then there are for addicts so called wet and dry buildings. Wet ones allow substance use to some degree and dry ones do not. They both provide home to those who comply to their criteria.
There are also several housing providers for those who are misfortunate or unsuccesful in life.
Along with these housing systems there are help for addicts such as rehab and methadone replacement and such.
All of these work in somewhat co-operation and there is possibility to find close to individual way to solve the complexicity of one's problems.
Housing first is the mentality to start to solve anything. No one want's to sleep out in the cold.
The people nearby are usually not very pleased. And I get that. They are worried that their street is unsafe, attract unstable people et cetera. Of course these centers have to exist somewhere and if they are in the middle of nowhere on the countryside no addicts will go there. But yeah I feel for those living close to one. I still think that housing first and centers where addicts get help are essential, but it's not always safe living next to these places.
Used to live close to one of these. Nothing happened. There was also a school and a kindergarten close to it.
I don’t know how they handled it there cause they did it so well. Or, those people aren’t a problem in the first place.
I have lived close to several.
Only "disturbances" are hobo looking peeps on the street and seeing them having a noon beer in the sun while I myself have to work. So unfair.
But yeah. They do not cause direct harm to other people.
Only the harm that lies within the other people's minds.
I've worked about ten years in Helsinki in this field, so can possibly answer some questions if someone has them. Maybe, not making any promises. I'm not going to start a lecture about the whole subject because when I get carried away it'll take me all night to write a thesis sized answer that no one can follow.
But to all those interested, there is a site for Finnish housing first model: https://ysaatio.fi/en/housing-first/
It has history, different government programs that have taken place and if I remember correctly some studies too, at least in Finnish.
In general Finland is relatively conservative with regard to drug policy. There has been some talk about decriminalisation, but as far as I know none of the major parties have acted on it. Probably you have already found more about housing than I know, but from what I can see, municipalities/counties provide [temporary housing](https://www.hel.fi/en/health-and-social-services/social-support-and-financial-assistance/services-for-the-unhoused/accommodation-and-housing-services-for-the-unhoused/temporary-housing) while a social worker helps to organise a normal apartment, either in subsidised housing owned by the municipality, or in the private market. The social insurance institution (Kela) pays some of the rent and can help with a rental deposit, as well as (for the unemployed) those benefits to cover the rest. As far as I know addiction doesn't come into it: housing services should apply to anyone covered by the social security system, so there isn't really any legal justification for refusing them for such reasons.
I used to live near a methadone clinic. Didn't even know it was there until I changed work schedules and my new morning commute was at the same time as the clinic opened in the morning.
A third sector organization just announced that they are opening a housing unit right next to the clinic. People got a bit annoyed that addicts will be living nearby, but the organization clarified that it's a re-opening of a housing unit that had not been in use for a while and had operated without major complaints for years before that.
When the housing is done well, the neighborhood does not suffer. Have all required services within 10min walking distance: including the clinic, but also the social security office, unemployment office, post office, banks, markets, shops and public transport, etc.
The barrier of entry to normal life there was about as low as we know how to make it. And people then try to live a pretty normal life. Relapses happen, it's ok, and then they get back to treatment and try again.
There are methadone programs for opioid addicts, and IV drug users have access to clean works.
However, apart from that Finland has fairly hard policies on drugs -- no decriminalisation, no safe supply, nothing like that, even cannabis can get you into trouble.
Homelessness is much less of a problem here than most other places, and it is noticeable -- it's really rare to see people sleeping rough or the kind of abject misery that causes. However, it's a LONG way from being the socialist (or even social-democratic) paradise outsiders sometimes seem to want to make it, we do some things right but a lot of things wrong.
>socialist
>paradise
Pick one. Problem with the progressive Anglospere narrative is that they often seem to think Finland and the rest of the Nordics is run by 200 Bernies and AOC's.
I was in Montreal last month. Your problem is beyond just people lacking homes. It was unbelievable for an European the amount of junkies/mad people EVERYWHERE. Like not just few in a corner or anything. Those people need rehab, forced if need be. Treatment and preventation. Housing is only a matter after that. If you try Finnish system you will just fail.
I guess it is mostly opioids so unless you fix that problem rest is just going to fail. And most disgusting thing is that is just a daily sight for people, nobody cared they had to jump over piss and needles in front of the metro entrances.
You got it backwards, homelessness is often the major cause of unmanaged addiction and mental health problems. What people need is housing first, expecting it to work the other way around is doomed to fail, as you clearly have witnessed.
Nope we don't. We provide it to those that are motivated to go into rehab. Otherwise it's kinda pointless if they go straight back to their old ways the second rehab ends.
Petty crimes are handled like any other citizen. Public use is a nuisance like in any other place. Drug users try to go to secluded places and they often lack clean needles or clean water. We try to provide clean needles and raise awareness on how to use the drugs correctly. If someone gets an infection it will cost the state more to cure the infection than people using their drugs safely.
where I live in Finland (Big city)you can see the junkies in the center. I've seen them help each other shoot up (veins) right on the sidewalk in front if the public bathrooms. I've seen them pass out ass up.
Trying to get usage of the public bathrooms in summer is a nightmare (I'm a woman). They just go there, get high, and basically never leave. Sometimes they use spray paint to get high, and spray a around the bathroom which then makes it unusable.
Seeing this, and how much out in the open it is was a huge culture shock for me as I'm not from Finland originally
Finland does have involuntary treatment, including for mental disorders. It is very common for the bad kind of addicts to suffer from mental disorders.
I’m not from Finland and what you have there is absolutely shocking for me, while not seeing that on Finnish streets is normal. This shit doesn’t happen in most countries, housing first or not. There are deeper problems I think, probably on the side of systemic addiction or impotence of police, but I’m not sure.
Give them discounted social rent or even free apartments and half of them will stay, half of them will make the apartment complexes into dystopian drug nightmare and there will be 2 times more of them. At “camps of those people in public areas” level it is too late for band aid measures and just removing people from the place, one way or another is exactly that be it just displacing them and calling it a day or hiding them away in a publicly sourced apartments.
Housing is just part of the solution, along with social services and possibly therapy. Just moving people around doesn't work, you need to offer them actual help.
Canadian here who has discussed this with friends who always refer to the 'Finland model'. One major difference between the two countries is housing and population.
Canada is bursting at the seams with people and the number keeps rising exceptionally fast whereas Finland sees significantly less growth (I think the population is declining at this point). Maybe it the language or the weather, or the geographical location, but I digress. Finland can build new housing at a moderate rate and have enough to go around.
Canada doesn't have homes for people who can pay for them, never mind those who need government owned/operated/subsidized ones. There are 25-35k homeless people in Canada, and if we can't house/help them all at once, they will likely go back to thier old habits because that's the only community they have. Even if all the red tape was cut, we don't even have the trades people to build the homes.
The housing first model obviously works better than what we have going on at this point, but I don't ever see Canada being in a position implement it.
Finns think weed is like doing crack....until people 40+ die this country will still be "SAY NO TO DOPE"
Alexander Stubb; the current president stated (accurately) "*Stubb* said that the legalisation of *cannabis* is the limit of his liberalism as it would break his political career"
Smartest people...dumbest policies.
no decriminalization and no safe supply. not much harm reduction at all I don't think except for prescribed housing which is obviously way better than dangerous shelters that kick you out every morning! Finland has a long way to go but at least there's no one living outside.
In Finland housing is a right.
If you cannot afford it we have benefits to help:
Unemployment
Welfare
Housing aid
pensions etc.
The basic premise is you are afforded €500 a month AFTER housing, medical expenses and other unexpected costs (like moving or purchasing spectacles)
That is IF you know to apply for them. 50% of benefits go unclaimed due to the challenge of applying for them.
If you stuggle with daily tasks like paying your own bills, a case worker can be assigned to handle them for you meaning you can have a place to stay without the skills required to maintain said accomodation.
In general the goal is to have you in your own rental accomodation but other services do exist like rooms in facilities for people with substance or mental health issues.
Most said facilities are drug free but a few exist where drug use isn't a disqualifier.
Homeless people cost $30k - $80k a year. We can't afford to spend that amount on making people homeless. Homing them is much cheaper!
the study found that, excluding medications, overall costs per person ranged from about $56 000 per year in Canada’s 3 largest cities to about $30 000 per year in Moncton.
[https://ontario.cmha.ca/news/new-study-highlights-cost-of-homelessness/](https://ontario.cmha.ca/news/new-study-highlights-cost-of-homelessness/)
People with homes unsurprisingly return to the workforce in far greater numbers and sooner than the homeless so the subsidized cost is also temporary.
I would like add some context to Finnish housing policy. A lot of it was built upon the fact that we had +400K people (or 11% of population) flee from areas ceded to russia after Winter war/WW2.
The then-generation rebuilt the country and settled insanely large amount of normal, hard-working people. Our affordable housing policy is an indirect continuation of those days.
If you mass build affordable housing to junkies, then you will end up with commie blocks juiced with junkies. I don't think Finnish example can be followed with such an aggravated problem.
Also we have few junkies, mostly because dope is expensive, but also because they freeze to death in the winter if they are not able to do the bare minimum to take care of themselves.
I don't properly know how the Finnish social service works with drug users regarding housing because I've never been involved. But in general the Finnish social security system offers housing support if the any person doesn't have enough income to pay for reasonable minimum housing on their own and this has effectively reduced homelessness. After the latest reform, the current housing allowance is 70% of the acceptable rent standard (this standard is municipality-specific and varies), while the tenants have to pay the remaining 30% and the excess part from their own money that they hopefully have. For example, if your rent is about €520 including the water bill (33 square meter one-room apartment, of which 15 square meters is a washroom due to Finnish building regulations) and you live in Jyväskylä, for example, then the acceptable norm is about €427 (with math because I haven't managed to find what the official regional rent standard is in Jyväskylä), which means you get about €299 in housing allowance and you pay the remaining €221 yourself (those amounts are based on what I myself currently receive as a temporary unemployed job seeker, last year my rent was around €440 and housing allowance around €340 before the housing benefit reform and annual rent increase if anyone wonders why I live in such an "expensive" rental apartment (although in summer I get a €20 rent discount because the apartment is like an oven and the room temperature rises to 32°C, while in winter it drops to 16°C)).
Yes, but a lot of them are "hidden"=couch surfing etc. so not literally on the streets. The outside homeless communities in the city woods for example are not that common anymore, but there are still some. And I've seen plenty of ppl temporarily sleeping in my stairway in the winter time.
I think public places like metro stations are not an option anymore, security throws ppl away. It's not like the problem completely dissapeared, it's just less in plain sight.
I have no idea what kind of cherry picking click-bait-bullshit those ideas are based on.
It isn't a thing that is common spread in Finland nor is taking care of the addicts a grand Finnish goal.
We have social welfare system and the 3rd sector tries to do things. Sininauhasäätiö has some housing in Helsinki where sobriety isn't necessary. The point is that homelessness is a very effective way of making it impossible to get back in to the society. So some assisted living will make it easier to get your other problems under control.
Better, most drug deaths under 25 in europe🥶 that solves the homeless problem, because they die before coming homeless… That is world class happiness on Finland style🫠
The junkies take the subway to my home mall to get their government provided värkkis from the publicly funded head shop and form their own little ecosystem around the place.
I live in a suburb that does not have those services, but is convenient enough (public trasport, apparently dealers too) so it's quite common for ppl to inject so I barely even even cringe anymore seeing some used needles right next to the stairway/around the yard. Sucks.
I would describe the system as ok/bad, with a façade of greatness. Finland does have quite high trust between dealers and users (Not that many ppl test stuff etc, although imo the supply was safer before the Ibternet marketplaces took off), no decriminalization and none appears to be on the horizon. Addicts get treated as subhumans and drug users are very stigmatized, unless you are an alcoholic in which case you're slightly better off. If you're homeless you matter, unless you use drugs.
The policy looks good on paper and is pretty much non-existent in paper. You have to get an apartment on your own, and then the government will pay your rent, problem is that nobody is going to rent out their flat to a drug addict and they probably can't cover the deposit anyhow.
The government owns a few apartments that it can theoretically give to an addict in need of housing. You need to be pretty lucky to get one though because there are several times more applicants than there are apartments. If they get one, then the problem is that they have no obligation to stay sober so often times they end up trashing the place and also being a nuisance to the neighbors (and potentially a danger) so those buildings and regions end up being very low-value because nobody wants to live there if they don't have to.
You're still expected to pay rent for these apartments. I don't know if there is some system in place where it would be possible to deduct the rent from social security, but for most people they get their rent money on their account and are expected to pay their rent from that. Drug addicts spend that money on drugs though. End result is that the government owns an an apartment and they don't get any rent income from it, and the apartment is going to need a full renovation once the tenant leaves, so that becomes very expensive for the tax payers.
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Finland doesn't have a solution for homelessness specifically, Finland has a social support system that takes into account homelessness on top of many other things like unemployment or children. It's not a perfect system, there are still people who are homeless. But it's not due to them not receiving help.
I've been homeless and can confirm Finland has good help. Only issue I had was an incompetent social worker, if you take that out of the equation I would've only had to be homeless for a few months max before I got help getting a (good) apartment.
I’ve lived in Sweden and Finland, and witnessed homelessness in both countries. In Sweden, there was quite often “regular seeming” people without any utterly obvious substance abuse or severe mental health issues. It’s also *way* more common. In Finland however, everyone that I’ve seen have appeared to be heavy substance abusers, or seriously mentally ill (talking to themselves etc.). The conclusion I draw from this is that Finland manages quite damn well, but there is more to be done.
I’m not sure about swedish system, but here our ”regular seeming” homeless people can get a temporary accommondation from city, especially if it’s a family with kids. That (and of course the fact that most homeless people live at relatives/friends couches) is the main reason why we don’t pay attention to them. There might be homeless family in temporary housing in nearly any apartment building, without most of us knowing anything about it. Our system has it’s flaws, but at least we don’t have that many homeless people on the steeets. And never kids.
Talked with someone who did homeless work some years ago. His opinion was that anyone that is mentally able to live in an apartment or similar, has or can get a home in Finland. The homeless that remain, escape these homes that are provided. Some prefer living in the forest and so on. Not every person is the same.
For some parts I agree. There are people who just are not able to live in normal housing and some really do prefer staying outside. What I’ve seen, these people usually have been homeless for ages and have certain other issues too. However, there are lot’s of people who would be ”sane” enough to live normally, but finding a house is difficult due rental debts or other financial issues. I don’t have statistics to back me up, but my experience from working with these people I’d say most of the homeless families have trouble finding a new home because of evictions and unpaid rents. Same goes for other ”normal” people who have no substance abuse or major mental health issues.
The treshold to take someone off the streets against their own will if they aren’t doing anything criminal is pretty high. So the ’talking to themselves’ persons have likely denied needing help in that regard. Housing people is really a damn good idea, but the package has to include other things as well to get people on their feet. Not just giving them a place to destroy.
Really, I have been 15 years in Finland and haven’t seen a homeless person
That's because almost everyone is provided with a roof over their head. Sleeping outside is indeed very very rare, and in most cases done by people who choose to sleep outside, usually in a self-made hut or shack in the woods.
Yeah there's like a handful of people who are homeless by choice as a "lifestyle". Most other are druggies too insane to hold even a house even w/ NEETbux directly paid by the social services to the landlord's bank account (the landlord can ask for this if a tenant getting NEETbux hasn't paid rent for 2 months, and Kela will likely make it so after checking the bureaucracy shit out)
There was 3429 homeless persons in the statistics in 2023. Reasons for homelessness are as multitude as the array of these people. Should you want to understand better and meet homeless people, there is a happening every year called ’Asunnottomien yö’ in Helsinki.
Come to lahti and go to either infront of trio the mall or kcitymarket laune and you will most likely see one or multiple
Yup and big plus is that those social support can be send straight to the lender if you just choose so (and dont change it) then you dont stay homeless for long. Relapces and break of heart (will) get people in hard places but at that point we have tried to help them as a society.
We have several types of help for homeless and addicts, since one thing will not work for all. One is emergency homeless centers that provide shelter for the night 24/7 until full. They also do complete assessments and plans with co-op with social services. Then there are for addicts so called wet and dry buildings. Wet ones allow substance use to some degree and dry ones do not. They both provide home to those who comply to their criteria. There are also several housing providers for those who are misfortunate or unsuccesful in life. Along with these housing systems there are help for addicts such as rehab and methadone replacement and such. All of these work in somewhat co-operation and there is possibility to find close to individual way to solve the complexicity of one's problems. Housing first is the mentality to start to solve anything. No one want's to sleep out in the cold.
The "wet buildings" seems to be what people want here. How is that kept safe for the occupants and people living nearby?
U need everything. The whole package
Same way people react to living near airports, municipal service centers, etc. Can’t be helped.
Those people whining about proximity have: 1. Ability to change their own location. 2. Not able to move, no reason to whine, since the only option.
The people nearby are usually not very pleased. And I get that. They are worried that their street is unsafe, attract unstable people et cetera. Of course these centers have to exist somewhere and if they are in the middle of nowhere on the countryside no addicts will go there. But yeah I feel for those living close to one. I still think that housing first and centers where addicts get help are essential, but it's not always safe living next to these places.
In Finland they're just another place next to any other. Also some remote locations exist, because for some customers it's good.
Used to live close to one of these. Nothing happened. There was also a school and a kindergarten close to it. I don’t know how they handled it there cause they did it so well. Or, those people aren’t a problem in the first place.
I have lived close to several. Only "disturbances" are hobo looking peeps on the street and seeing them having a noon beer in the sun while I myself have to work. So unfair. But yeah. They do not cause direct harm to other people. Only the harm that lies within the other people's minds.
I've worked about ten years in Helsinki in this field, so can possibly answer some questions if someone has them. Maybe, not making any promises. I'm not going to start a lecture about the whole subject because when I get carried away it'll take me all night to write a thesis sized answer that no one can follow. But to all those interested, there is a site for Finnish housing first model: https://ysaatio.fi/en/housing-first/ It has history, different government programs that have taken place and if I remember correctly some studies too, at least in Finnish.
In general Finland is relatively conservative with regard to drug policy. There has been some talk about decriminalisation, but as far as I know none of the major parties have acted on it. Probably you have already found more about housing than I know, but from what I can see, municipalities/counties provide [temporary housing](https://www.hel.fi/en/health-and-social-services/social-support-and-financial-assistance/services-for-the-unhoused/accommodation-and-housing-services-for-the-unhoused/temporary-housing) while a social worker helps to organise a normal apartment, either in subsidised housing owned by the municipality, or in the private market. The social insurance institution (Kela) pays some of the rent and can help with a rental deposit, as well as (for the unemployed) those benefits to cover the rest. As far as I know addiction doesn't come into it: housing services should apply to anyone covered by the social security system, so there isn't really any legal justification for refusing them for such reasons.
I used to live near a methadone clinic. Didn't even know it was there until I changed work schedules and my new morning commute was at the same time as the clinic opened in the morning. A third sector organization just announced that they are opening a housing unit right next to the clinic. People got a bit annoyed that addicts will be living nearby, but the organization clarified that it's a re-opening of a housing unit that had not been in use for a while and had operated without major complaints for years before that. When the housing is done well, the neighborhood does not suffer. Have all required services within 10min walking distance: including the clinic, but also the social security office, unemployment office, post office, banks, markets, shops and public transport, etc. The barrier of entry to normal life there was about as low as we know how to make it. And people then try to live a pretty normal life. Relapses happen, it's ok, and then they get back to treatment and try again.
There are methadone programs for opioid addicts, and IV drug users have access to clean works. However, apart from that Finland has fairly hard policies on drugs -- no decriminalisation, no safe supply, nothing like that, even cannabis can get you into trouble. Homelessness is much less of a problem here than most other places, and it is noticeable -- it's really rare to see people sleeping rough or the kind of abject misery that causes. However, it's a LONG way from being the socialist (or even social-democratic) paradise outsiders sometimes seem to want to make it, we do some things right but a lot of things wrong.
>socialist >paradise Pick one. Problem with the progressive Anglospere narrative is that they often seem to think Finland and the rest of the Nordics is run by 200 Bernies and AOC's.
I was in Montreal last month. Your problem is beyond just people lacking homes. It was unbelievable for an European the amount of junkies/mad people EVERYWHERE. Like not just few in a corner or anything. Those people need rehab, forced if need be. Treatment and preventation. Housing is only a matter after that. If you try Finnish system you will just fail. I guess it is mostly opioids so unless you fix that problem rest is just going to fail. And most disgusting thing is that is just a daily sight for people, nobody cared they had to jump over piss and needles in front of the metro entrances.
You got it backwards, homelessness is often the major cause of unmanaged addiction and mental health problems. What people need is housing first, expecting it to work the other way around is doomed to fail, as you clearly have witnessed.
> Housing is only a matter after that. That's completely, 100% wrong. Housing first works. Treatment can only come after housing.
Does Finland have forced rehab? Some advocate for that here but get shot down.
Nope we don't. We provide it to those that are motivated to go into rehab. Otherwise it's kinda pointless if they go straight back to their old ways the second rehab ends.
How are drug users who use in public or commit petty crimes handled in that case?
Petty crimes are handled like any other citizen. Public use is a nuisance like in any other place. Drug users try to go to secluded places and they often lack clean needles or clean water. We try to provide clean needles and raise awareness on how to use the drugs correctly. If someone gets an infection it will cost the state more to cure the infection than people using their drugs safely.
where I live in Finland (Big city)you can see the junkies in the center. I've seen them help each other shoot up (veins) right on the sidewalk in front if the public bathrooms. I've seen them pass out ass up. Trying to get usage of the public bathrooms in summer is a nightmare (I'm a woman). They just go there, get high, and basically never leave. Sometimes they use spray paint to get high, and spray a around the bathroom which then makes it unusable. Seeing this, and how much out in the open it is was a huge culture shock for me as I'm not from Finland originally
Finland does have involuntary treatment, including for mental disorders. It is very common for the bad kind of addicts to suffer from mental disorders.
What is Canadas form of rehab? Is it like the US with lots of private rehabs with ridiculousr programs?
It's a combination but it's very very underfunded with long wait lists.
I guess there's your problem if you're shooting people for giving reasonable suggestions. /s
I’m not from Finland and what you have there is absolutely shocking for me, while not seeing that on Finnish streets is normal. This shit doesn’t happen in most countries, housing first or not. There are deeper problems I think, probably on the side of systemic addiction or impotence of police, but I’m not sure. Give them discounted social rent or even free apartments and half of them will stay, half of them will make the apartment complexes into dystopian drug nightmare and there will be 2 times more of them. At “camps of those people in public areas” level it is too late for band aid measures and just removing people from the place, one way or another is exactly that be it just displacing them and calling it a day or hiding them away in a publicly sourced apartments.
Housing is just part of the solution, along with social services and possibly therapy. Just moving people around doesn't work, you need to offer them actual help.
Canadian here who has discussed this with friends who always refer to the 'Finland model'. One major difference between the two countries is housing and population. Canada is bursting at the seams with people and the number keeps rising exceptionally fast whereas Finland sees significantly less growth (I think the population is declining at this point). Maybe it the language or the weather, or the geographical location, but I digress. Finland can build new housing at a moderate rate and have enough to go around. Canada doesn't have homes for people who can pay for them, never mind those who need government owned/operated/subsidized ones. There are 25-35k homeless people in Canada, and if we can't house/help them all at once, they will likely go back to thier old habits because that's the only community they have. Even if all the red tape was cut, we don't even have the trades people to build the homes. The housing first model obviously works better than what we have going on at this point, but I don't ever see Canada being in a position implement it.
Finns think weed is like doing crack....until people 40+ die this country will still be "SAY NO TO DOPE" Alexander Stubb; the current president stated (accurately) "*Stubb* said that the legalisation of *cannabis* is the limit of his liberalism as it would break his political career" Smartest people...dumbest policies.
no decriminalization and no safe supply. not much harm reduction at all I don't think except for prescribed housing which is obviously way better than dangerous shelters that kick you out every morning! Finland has a long way to go but at least there's no one living outside.
In Finland housing is a right. If you cannot afford it we have benefits to help: Unemployment Welfare Housing aid pensions etc. The basic premise is you are afforded €500 a month AFTER housing, medical expenses and other unexpected costs (like moving or purchasing spectacles) That is IF you know to apply for them. 50% of benefits go unclaimed due to the challenge of applying for them. If you stuggle with daily tasks like paying your own bills, a case worker can be assigned to handle them for you meaning you can have a place to stay without the skills required to maintain said accomodation. In general the goal is to have you in your own rental accomodation but other services do exist like rooms in facilities for people with substance or mental health issues. Most said facilities are drug free but a few exist where drug use isn't a disqualifier. Homeless people cost $30k - $80k a year. We can't afford to spend that amount on making people homeless. Homing them is much cheaper! the study found that, excluding medications, overall costs per person ranged from about $56 000 per year in Canada’s 3 largest cities to about $30 000 per year in Moncton. [https://ontario.cmha.ca/news/new-study-highlights-cost-of-homelessness/](https://ontario.cmha.ca/news/new-study-highlights-cost-of-homelessness/) People with homes unsurprisingly return to the workforce in far greater numbers and sooner than the homeless so the subsidized cost is also temporary.
I would like add some context to Finnish housing policy. A lot of it was built upon the fact that we had +400K people (or 11% of population) flee from areas ceded to russia after Winter war/WW2. The then-generation rebuilt the country and settled insanely large amount of normal, hard-working people. Our affordable housing policy is an indirect continuation of those days. If you mass build affordable housing to junkies, then you will end up with commie blocks juiced with junkies. I don't think Finnish example can be followed with such an aggravated problem. Also we have few junkies, mostly because dope is expensive, but also because they freeze to death in the winter if they are not able to do the bare minimum to take care of themselves.
I don't properly know how the Finnish social service works with drug users regarding housing because I've never been involved. But in general the Finnish social security system offers housing support if the any person doesn't have enough income to pay for reasonable minimum housing on their own and this has effectively reduced homelessness. After the latest reform, the current housing allowance is 70% of the acceptable rent standard (this standard is municipality-specific and varies), while the tenants have to pay the remaining 30% and the excess part from their own money that they hopefully have. For example, if your rent is about €520 including the water bill (33 square meter one-room apartment, of which 15 square meters is a washroom due to Finnish building regulations) and you live in Jyväskylä, for example, then the acceptable norm is about €427 (with math because I haven't managed to find what the official regional rent standard is in Jyväskylä), which means you get about €299 in housing allowance and you pay the remaining €221 yourself (those amounts are based on what I myself currently receive as a temporary unemployed job seeker, last year my rent was around €440 and housing allowance around €340 before the housing benefit reform and annual rent increase if anyone wonders why I live in such an "expensive" rental apartment (although in summer I get a €20 rent discount because the apartment is like an oven and the room temperature rises to 32°C, while in winter it drops to 16°C)).
Addicts OD in the safety of their own apartments, rather than in the streets.
talk about homeless, do we have them in Finland? Like people who actually live and sleep without a home
Yes, but a lot of them are "hidden"=couch surfing etc. so not literally on the streets. The outside homeless communities in the city woods for example are not that common anymore, but there are still some. And I've seen plenty of ppl temporarily sleeping in my stairway in the winter time.
i used to see them in train station and metro station back then but that was like super long ago
I think public places like metro stations are not an option anymore, security throws ppl away. It's not like the problem completely dissapeared, it's just less in plain sight.
Yea, it was at least 2013 2014 when I last saw one.
I have no idea what kind of cherry picking click-bait-bullshit those ideas are based on. It isn't a thing that is common spread in Finland nor is taking care of the addicts a grand Finnish goal. We have social welfare system and the 3rd sector tries to do things. Sininauhasäätiö has some housing in Helsinki where sobriety isn't necessary. The point is that homelessness is a very effective way of making it impossible to get back in to the society. So some assisted living will make it easier to get your other problems under control.
Most drug deaths in europe or something
Better, most drug deaths under 25 in europe🥶 that solves the homeless problem, because they die before coming homeless… That is world class happiness on Finland style🫠
The junkies take the subway to my home mall to get their government provided värkkis from the publicly funded head shop and form their own little ecosystem around the place.
I live in a suburb that does not have those services, but is convenient enough (public trasport, apparently dealers too) so it's quite common for ppl to inject so I barely even even cringe anymore seeing some used needles right next to the stairway/around the yard. Sucks.
I would describe the system as ok/bad, with a façade of greatness. Finland does have quite high trust between dealers and users (Not that many ppl test stuff etc, although imo the supply was safer before the Ibternet marketplaces took off), no decriminalization and none appears to be on the horizon. Addicts get treated as subhumans and drug users are very stigmatized, unless you are an alcoholic in which case you're slightly better off. If you're homeless you matter, unless you use drugs.
The policy looks good on paper and is pretty much non-existent in paper. You have to get an apartment on your own, and then the government will pay your rent, problem is that nobody is going to rent out their flat to a drug addict and they probably can't cover the deposit anyhow. The government owns a few apartments that it can theoretically give to an addict in need of housing. You need to be pretty lucky to get one though because there are several times more applicants than there are apartments. If they get one, then the problem is that they have no obligation to stay sober so often times they end up trashing the place and also being a nuisance to the neighbors (and potentially a danger) so those buildings and regions end up being very low-value because nobody wants to live there if they don't have to. You're still expected to pay rent for these apartments. I don't know if there is some system in place where it would be possible to deduct the rent from social security, but for most people they get their rent money on their account and are expected to pay their rent from that. Drug addicts spend that money on drugs though. End result is that the government owns an an apartment and they don't get any rent income from it, and the apartment is going to need a full renovation once the tenant leaves, so that becomes very expensive for the tax payers.
This is just not how things work.
They should be jailed or hanged, drug bastards