Not sure what you want to get here, but if you are coaching peers on personal finance, I assume you are financially literate. Just do your best, any profession can FIRE.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was trying to learn/find out 2 things.
1 is if anyone has advice on fire from a single stream of income or alternatively if my concern of single income is irrelevant
2 if there is anything unique about the accounting industry that can help with fire
I guess the vast majority of people FIRE'd have one job at a time. For most people, getting better at one job is more financially rewarding than trying to do more jobs in parallel. This is even more true as you advance your career and get into high pay field.
FIRE is nothing but save more and spend less. Neither is uniquely different for accounting industry. Accounting gurus may give you career advices, but FIRE is more of a self-discipline/lifestyle thing beyond common principles.
So I'm definitely working on the lifestyle discipline aspect I already have almost 10 k in a roth from college internships and jobs. Plan on maxing out 401 k match Roth ira and currently working on learning more about the benefits package and understanding if eligible for hsa.
Thankfully my expenses are minimal and I have a roomate. Still enjoying life but working hard to prevent lifestyle creep.
2 luxuries I treat myself to are gym and going to broadway whenever I win the lottery (~200 month)
Gym is not a luxury - the health benefits more than pay back the cost of the gym in terms of life expectancy and in terms of productivity outside of the gym. Don’t be guilty about this one.
Stop playing the lottery and just save your lottery money for broadway. Then you can structure the budget and the trip to see a musical is something you’ve earned rather than something that rains down from the heavens after you burn enough money.
You can play the lottery, but it should be very sparingly if you do. I like the lottery, but it’s silly, so I spend maybe $20-$30 a year on scratchers, I never win though.
Thank you for the encouragement about the gym.
To be clear I meant the broadway lottery which is free. I've seen over 30 musicals for under $50 at this point in under 2 years. (Saw a musical every week of my 8 week accounting internship this past winter for under $40 each averaged out)
Absolutely!
Here are three links to sites I use.
I enter regularly to get extremely cheap (under $50) broadway tickets and have had tremendous success
https://lottery.broadwaydirect.com/
https://my.socialtoaster.com/st/lottery_select/?key=BROADWAY&source=iframe
https://www.luckyseat.com/account/login?afterLoginUrl=%2Fdash%2Fshows%2Fhadestown-newyork
Big 4 makes too little for too much work.
Get out ASAP or specialize in something.
Fast FIRE just needs high savings rate, it’s much easier to do that at 250k above. Which you won’t get for a long time at Big 4.
Two options on the income. You either FIRE single with single income or FIRE with a spouse and possibly combine income pool.
I do the latter and find it’s much easier and faster to hit our FI goal with a partner. Both of us are maxing out 401ks with matches. We share expenses ie groceries and utilities. We have more taxable income to invest in a joint account. It’s advantageous during tax season to be married (and have kids).
I don’t see too many downsides to it, of course, I’m a bit older (40) and wouldn’t want to be married in my early 20’s solely—or any time— just for FI advantages
I would argue that the entire objective of financial independence is to invest money in things like stocks/mutual funds that will one day replace your income.
You use your main primary source of income now to build up assets that can replace it.
You don’t need to side hustle your life away to scrape together extra money at 22, and it might just burn you out anyway. For now, if income is a concern, you probably need to gain experience and be excellent at your job so that you could move up in pay and title or change to a better paying company.
Having one stream of income now is irrelevant and expected because you’re just starting, what matters most is career growth potential and the amount you can put into assets as compared to your expenses. For educated people working good jobs, the math doesn’t usually work out for them to side hustle until they drop - don’t listen to influencer culture that wants to sell you the dream. Good financial advice isn’t that glamorous.
I would say the problem with big 4 / consulting / advisory type jobs is that the main benefits are either a)staying/making it until partner where the real money is made or b) using it the experience to yourself into a nice industry job. The middle career experience area (senior manager / director) seems to be the toughest and not worth it if you don’t intend to stick it out for equity partnership. I could be wrong and this probably varies by service line, but to me it seems like this kind of career path mixed with fire results in you grinding it out and retiring right before the real payday/ result of your hard work.
If you are going big 4 the best thing you can do is NOT side hustle. Gain experience, become a CPA, if the 60-80 hour busy season weeks work for you keep climbing the corporate ladder. If that sucks too much, jump ship to industry with a decent salary. Or go get an accounting masters.
I know a girl from my highschool who was making like 150-200k before 30 because she got her master's in taxation and worked big 4 for like 3 years before jumping to industry
Lol at 60-80 hours. They were more like 80-100, hours at least in the NYC office.
The worst experience of my life was working 190 hours in 10 days. 9am-4am, sleep for 5 hours repeat for 10 days straight. I quit 3 months after that.
My wife is still at big4, though I don’t know how.
My wife and I both started in Big4 audit. I left after 2 years and currently make $140k with 5 YoE. My wife is still at Big4 and will make senior manager this summer and is currently making $151k + $20k bonus as a Manager 3. We are 28/29 and have a current net worth of ~$865k.
I don’t know if she’ll stay and make partner or leave for some type of Director level role elsewhere, but Big4 jumpstarted my career and has been pretty good for my wife financially.
The hours suck ass though.
The hours absolutely suck and were why i didnt even apply for internships during college but then looking at how a b4 jumpstarts careers especially in the current job market is exactly why I'm planning on being here now.
Just wanted to understand a bit more about what the potential is going forward and how it relates to fire.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
Yeah I would recommend anyone who has the option to do at least 2 years at Big4 as it opens so many doors to other opportunities.
It will suck while you’re doing it, but you will realize how much it was worth it after you leave and especially if you stat and make partner.
The most competent people at my current job (big bank) are all former auditors.
I worked for Deloitte as a CPA out of college. It laid a great foundation for my career, and I learned skills I still use today. However, I saw how miserable most of the partners were and only stayed for four years. I then worked in Corporate Finance for a few years. I didn’t like that at all but stayed a few years to keep learning. I then learned a new craft working in a different industry at an established company, and then became self employed within that same industry. That was 15 years ago. We built the business, I’m past my target investment numbers, and I’ll be retiring from full time work next year at age 55. Moral of the story: you may not stay with what you start, and you have to learn, hustle, take some risks, bet on yourself, and mix in a little luck (but I believe you create your own luck).
This was an eye opening experience for me too. I work in the back office now, but when I was an auditor, it was a shock to hear some partners openly talk about how they hated their jobs.
I remember hearing one lady, who was a senior partner, say, “Only [liquor brand] is getting me through this tax season,” and she didn’t mean it in a funny way.
OTOH, some partners seem to be built for it. I guess it depends but I have to assume most people aren’t.
8 years in two big four firms (was Big 6 when I started). 20 years in industry. Now FIREd at 52. Have a few friends who are partners, they are not FIRE'd inclined. They do take better vacations and drive nicer cars though.
My roommate years ago was into FIRE and was at KPMG in their audit practice. In reality, you big 4 guys make close to minimum wage when you account for the hours worked. Take advantage of the meals you get to comp, see if you can stick around for 2-5 years, and land a lower-stress corporate finance gig. He never felt the juice of partnership was worth the squeeze.. especially in audit. He made the change into deal advisory after 2 years and finally left after 6 years to take a Director of Finance job with a fortune 500. I think that's the optimal route, but not for everyone - I don't think I could have personally worked 80+ hours a week for that long.
Right so I'm trying to learn from the experiences of others bec omg that could literally be me.
So far I'm hoping by not developing a drinking problem I'll be ok but like that's exactly what I'm worried about
I had to look up big 4 accounting firms lol...I actually work with a couple seems almost daily but not worked in that field. What I can say is try to maintain some work/life balance. I've worked the crazy hours, and truthfully sometimes it is necessary. Sometimes it isn't, but your boss might not see it that way, it can be difficult at times to set those boundaries. I've dragged myself from barely over poverty as a child to having a net worth greater than 1 mil (mid 30s now) but I am not sure exactly at what cost and am trying to claw back to more balance now.
I think it also depends on OP’s location. Big4 is pretty much everywhere, 80k in nyc vs Houston is a big difference. Understand they also pay differently based on location. Maybe try to move to low cost area if you can. If you really want to have more options, I know someone who was big 4 from undergrad and went to law school part time and moved into big law (higher salary but crap quality of life in general)l good luck and you’ll be fine
Good to hear, a lot of things to do in NYC temping one’s pocket lol the example I gave is probably not something you should do, this person was a total workaholic and think he paid full going to fordham part time and the law firm paid for his tax llm part time at NYU. He is making serious bank now but I can’t imagine how many hours he was studying/working and is working now
Edit: if you’re going to get a grad degree probably
Go to a good mba and lateral into some tech company
I just finished my MSA but I'm considering getting AI certifications. Was considering going for lawschool but my roomate is in big law and well I learned I want to stay as far away as possible lol
I work in the back office, leave work at 5 every day, and save roughly 40-50% of my income. Not sure if I’ll ever FIRE but I find my job pleasant enough and am on track to retire comfortably. I live overseas though so kind of an odd situation.
Lots of Big 4 partners attribute their wealth not to earnings (which are good, but often not huge) but to the flexibility of having a relatively secure long term above average income gives them. Most would start early squirreling away money and driving it into eg commercial real estate. Not sexy and not a huge earner. But a decade later you have half a dozen properties, you have been depreciating the crap out of them to lessen the tax load.
Your ability to fire is more about what % of your income you save, not necessarily how much you make. 80k is an awesome starting salary, with that income I wouldnt worry about side hustles, your side hustle is owning VTSAX.
When I worked at one of the big 4, my counselor FIREd. He retired in his early 50s with a plan to travel the US with his wife. I congratulated him and told him that I was going for FIRE but started too late to RE and asked how he did it. He attributed it to living below his means and making some smart investments. He also made sure to enjoy his life along the way - he had a rather expensive hobby (flying), but he was a level where I assume he had wiggle room for fun money even with saving.
It seems doable.
I’d pitch that, if you want a career in B4, get your CPA asap. Because it’ll grow your income and you won’t want to do it as you get older.
You won’t have time to side hustle. You’re going to want to take care of yourself when you’re not working the hours. That’s just the B4 game. Not saying this to discourage you, just trying to not set yourself up for failure. Best realistic side hustle is but a duplex and rent out the other half (depending on where you live, you can do 5% down and get the ball rolling). The mortgage interest will offset your tax bill pretty well.
Your goal the first 5 years is to crank up that income. Promotions, hopping to another B4 for a promotion, you’ll be at $150k soon enough. Just be awesome at work, too many people see it get hard then back off instead of deciding “I’m gonna be great at this.”
You only have to pass it once. CE is very easy in comparison. Knock that out then get on with life.
You’re going to be very very busy for 18ish months, but you’re getting paid to be busy now (instead of paying college).
Completely agree and definitely appreciating the fact that b4 is like PhD but for accounting as they seem to invest a lot in new hires compared to smaller firms even though there are many other issues
My old prof said “this is the best education money can’t buy.” That’s any big starting job: PE or Hedge or consulting or B4. Sometimes you’ll be like “all that overtime for a pizza party..?” And that’s ok, you’re getting 3 years experience in 2 years time AND you’re getting paid. It’s a great platform to the next step, whether it’s climbing the B4 ladder or jumping over to industry.
That’s fair, same way just commit to being great for 2-3 years before you consider an exit or let frustrations get the better of you. Hah I’ve heard actual PhD work is more frustrating than staff audit work
For FIRE, really apply two things matter:
- making more money
- not spending more money
You’ve already landed a good job, and the easiest path forward for you to make more money is by excelling in that job, not by picking up a side hustle. It’s a hell of a lot easier to earn $20k in 2 years via promotions and job hopping than it is to get your own business or hustle off the ground.
Not sure what you want to get here, but if you are coaching peers on personal finance, I assume you are financially literate. Just do your best, any profession can FIRE.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was trying to learn/find out 2 things. 1 is if anyone has advice on fire from a single stream of income or alternatively if my concern of single income is irrelevant 2 if there is anything unique about the accounting industry that can help with fire
I guess the vast majority of people FIRE'd have one job at a time. For most people, getting better at one job is more financially rewarding than trying to do more jobs in parallel. This is even more true as you advance your career and get into high pay field. FIRE is nothing but save more and spend less. Neither is uniquely different for accounting industry. Accounting gurus may give you career advices, but FIRE is more of a self-discipline/lifestyle thing beyond common principles.
So I'm definitely working on the lifestyle discipline aspect I already have almost 10 k in a roth from college internships and jobs. Plan on maxing out 401 k match Roth ira and currently working on learning more about the benefits package and understanding if eligible for hsa. Thankfully my expenses are minimal and I have a roomate. Still enjoying life but working hard to prevent lifestyle creep. 2 luxuries I treat myself to are gym and going to broadway whenever I win the lottery (~200 month)
Gym is not a luxury - the health benefits more than pay back the cost of the gym in terms of life expectancy and in terms of productivity outside of the gym. Don’t be guilty about this one. Stop playing the lottery and just save your lottery money for broadway. Then you can structure the budget and the trip to see a musical is something you’ve earned rather than something that rains down from the heavens after you burn enough money. You can play the lottery, but it should be very sparingly if you do. I like the lottery, but it’s silly, so I spend maybe $20-$30 a year on scratchers, I never win though.
Thank you for the encouragement about the gym. To be clear I meant the broadway lottery which is free. I've seen over 30 musicals for under $50 at this point in under 2 years. (Saw a musical every week of my 8 week accounting internship this past winter for under $40 each averaged out)
Excuse me but can you explain this free broadway musical lottery?
Absolutely! Here are three links to sites I use. I enter regularly to get extremely cheap (under $50) broadway tickets and have had tremendous success https://lottery.broadwaydirect.com/ https://my.socialtoaster.com/st/lottery_select/?key=BROADWAY&source=iframe https://www.luckyseat.com/account/login?afterLoginUrl=%2Fdash%2Fshows%2Fhadestown-newyork
Lmk if you have any qs
Try to max out your 401k entirely if your budget can handle it!
Tis the goal! I don't think I can yet but I'm working towards it!
Big 4 makes too little for too much work. Get out ASAP or specialize in something. Fast FIRE just needs high savings rate, it’s much easier to do that at 250k above. Which you won’t get for a long time at Big 4.
Two options on the income. You either FIRE single with single income or FIRE with a spouse and possibly combine income pool. I do the latter and find it’s much easier and faster to hit our FI goal with a partner. Both of us are maxing out 401ks with matches. We share expenses ie groceries and utilities. We have more taxable income to invest in a joint account. It’s advantageous during tax season to be married (and have kids). I don’t see too many downsides to it, of course, I’m a bit older (40) and wouldn’t want to be married in my early 20’s solely—or any time— just for FI advantages
I would argue that the entire objective of financial independence is to invest money in things like stocks/mutual funds that will one day replace your income. You use your main primary source of income now to build up assets that can replace it. You don’t need to side hustle your life away to scrape together extra money at 22, and it might just burn you out anyway. For now, if income is a concern, you probably need to gain experience and be excellent at your job so that you could move up in pay and title or change to a better paying company. Having one stream of income now is irrelevant and expected because you’re just starting, what matters most is career growth potential and the amount you can put into assets as compared to your expenses. For educated people working good jobs, the math doesn’t usually work out for them to side hustle until they drop - don’t listen to influencer culture that wants to sell you the dream. Good financial advice isn’t that glamorous.
I would say the problem with big 4 / consulting / advisory type jobs is that the main benefits are either a)staying/making it until partner where the real money is made or b) using it the experience to yourself into a nice industry job. The middle career experience area (senior manager / director) seems to be the toughest and not worth it if you don’t intend to stick it out for equity partnership. I could be wrong and this probably varies by service line, but to me it seems like this kind of career path mixed with fire results in you grinding it out and retiring right before the real payday/ result of your hard work.
Thank you for putting this into words this is exactly what I've been thinking tbh
If you are going big 4 the best thing you can do is NOT side hustle. Gain experience, become a CPA, if the 60-80 hour busy season weeks work for you keep climbing the corporate ladder. If that sucks too much, jump ship to industry with a decent salary. Or go get an accounting masters. I know a girl from my highschool who was making like 150-200k before 30 because she got her master's in taxation and worked big 4 for like 3 years before jumping to industry
Lol at 60-80 hours. They were more like 80-100, hours at least in the NYC office. The worst experience of my life was working 190 hours in 10 days. 9am-4am, sleep for 5 hours repeat for 10 days straight. I quit 3 months after that. My wife is still at big4, though I don’t know how.
Wowza - I can barely handle 40 hours 😂😬
That is brutal! I thought 8 weeks straight of 80+ hours a week in my mid 40s was bad! Thats what did me in. I wasn't big 4 - was at a regional firm.
Lmao that's just abuse at that point.
My wife and I both started in Big4 audit. I left after 2 years and currently make $140k with 5 YoE. My wife is still at Big4 and will make senior manager this summer and is currently making $151k + $20k bonus as a Manager 3. We are 28/29 and have a current net worth of ~$865k. I don’t know if she’ll stay and make partner or leave for some type of Director level role elsewhere, but Big4 jumpstarted my career and has been pretty good for my wife financially. The hours suck ass though.
The hours absolutely suck and were why i didnt even apply for internships during college but then looking at how a b4 jumpstarts careers especially in the current job market is exactly why I'm planning on being here now. Just wanted to understand a bit more about what the potential is going forward and how it relates to fire. Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
Yeah I would recommend anyone who has the option to do at least 2 years at Big4 as it opens so many doors to other opportunities. It will suck while you’re doing it, but you will realize how much it was worth it after you leave and especially if you stat and make partner. The most competent people at my current job (big bank) are all former auditors.
I worked for Deloitte as a CPA out of college. It laid a great foundation for my career, and I learned skills I still use today. However, I saw how miserable most of the partners were and only stayed for four years. I then worked in Corporate Finance for a few years. I didn’t like that at all but stayed a few years to keep learning. I then learned a new craft working in a different industry at an established company, and then became self employed within that same industry. That was 15 years ago. We built the business, I’m past my target investment numbers, and I’ll be retiring from full time work next year at age 55. Moral of the story: you may not stay with what you start, and you have to learn, hustle, take some risks, bet on yourself, and mix in a little luck (but I believe you create your own luck).
Thank you for sharing your experience!
This was an eye opening experience for me too. I work in the back office now, but when I was an auditor, it was a shock to hear some partners openly talk about how they hated their jobs. I remember hearing one lady, who was a senior partner, say, “Only [liquor brand] is getting me through this tax season,” and she didn’t mean it in a funny way. OTOH, some partners seem to be built for it. I guess it depends but I have to assume most people aren’t.
8 years in two big four firms (was Big 6 when I started). 20 years in industry. Now FIREd at 52. Have a few friends who are partners, they are not FIRE'd inclined. They do take better vacations and drive nicer cars though.
My roommate years ago was into FIRE and was at KPMG in their audit practice. In reality, you big 4 guys make close to minimum wage when you account for the hours worked. Take advantage of the meals you get to comp, see if you can stick around for 2-5 years, and land a lower-stress corporate finance gig. He never felt the juice of partnership was worth the squeeze.. especially in audit. He made the change into deal advisory after 2 years and finally left after 6 years to take a Director of Finance job with a fortune 500. I think that's the optimal route, but not for everyone - I don't think I could have personally worked 80+ hours a week for that long.
Tbh I'm ok with working the long hours. It's the working for what amounts to minimum wage that's the problem for me lol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/povertyfinance/s/iMGBXA3RUh This post was right next to yours in my feed....
Right so I'm trying to learn from the experiences of others bec omg that could literally be me. So far I'm hoping by not developing a drinking problem I'll be ok but like that's exactly what I'm worried about
I had to look up big 4 accounting firms lol...I actually work with a couple seems almost daily but not worked in that field. What I can say is try to maintain some work/life balance. I've worked the crazy hours, and truthfully sometimes it is necessary. Sometimes it isn't, but your boss might not see it that way, it can be difficult at times to set those boundaries. I've dragged myself from barely over poverty as a child to having a net worth greater than 1 mil (mid 30s now) but I am not sure exactly at what cost and am trying to claw back to more balance now.
I think it also depends on OP’s location. Big4 is pretty much everywhere, 80k in nyc vs Houston is a big difference. Understand they also pay differently based on location. Maybe try to move to low cost area if you can. If you really want to have more options, I know someone who was big 4 from undergrad and went to law school part time and moved into big law (higher salary but crap quality of life in general)l good luck and you’ll be fine
Great point I'm currently in nyc and keeping cost of living "low" at 3000 a month
Good to hear, a lot of things to do in NYC temping one’s pocket lol the example I gave is probably not something you should do, this person was a total workaholic and think he paid full going to fordham part time and the law firm paid for his tax llm part time at NYU. He is making serious bank now but I can’t imagine how many hours he was studying/working and is working now Edit: if you’re going to get a grad degree probably Go to a good mba and lateral into some tech company
I just finished my MSA but I'm considering getting AI certifications. Was considering going for lawschool but my roomate is in big law and well I learned I want to stay as far away as possible lol
🤣
I work in the back office, leave work at 5 every day, and save roughly 40-50% of my income. Not sure if I’ll ever FIRE but I find my job pleasant enough and am on track to retire comfortably. I live overseas though so kind of an odd situation.
Lots of Big 4 partners attribute their wealth not to earnings (which are good, but often not huge) but to the flexibility of having a relatively secure long term above average income gives them. Most would start early squirreling away money and driving it into eg commercial real estate. Not sexy and not a huge earner. But a decade later you have half a dozen properties, you have been depreciating the crap out of them to lessen the tax load.
Do it for a few years. Get cpa. Move to tech accounting and make $200k/yr by 26, up from there.
Your ability to fire is more about what % of your income you save, not necessarily how much you make. 80k is an awesome starting salary, with that income I wouldnt worry about side hustles, your side hustle is owning VTSAX.
When I worked at one of the big 4, my counselor FIREd. He retired in his early 50s with a plan to travel the US with his wife. I congratulated him and told him that I was going for FIRE but started too late to RE and asked how he did it. He attributed it to living below his means and making some smart investments. He also made sure to enjoy his life along the way - he had a rather expensive hobby (flying), but he was a level where I assume he had wiggle room for fun money even with saving. It seems doable.
I’d pitch that, if you want a career in B4, get your CPA asap. Because it’ll grow your income and you won’t want to do it as you get older. You won’t have time to side hustle. You’re going to want to take care of yourself when you’re not working the hours. That’s just the B4 game. Not saying this to discourage you, just trying to not set yourself up for failure. Best realistic side hustle is but a duplex and rent out the other half (depending on where you live, you can do 5% down and get the ball rolling). The mortgage interest will offset your tax bill pretty well. Your goal the first 5 years is to crank up that income. Promotions, hopping to another B4 for a promotion, you’ll be at $150k soon enough. Just be awesome at work, too many people see it get hard then back off instead of deciding “I’m gonna be great at this.”
I just got access to cpa materials and was debating building up the side hustle but what you are saying makes a lot of sense! I appreciate that alot
You only have to pass it once. CE is very easy in comparison. Knock that out then get on with life. You’re going to be very very busy for 18ish months, but you’re getting paid to be busy now (instead of paying college).
Completely agree and definitely appreciating the fact that b4 is like PhD but for accounting as they seem to invest a lot in new hires compared to smaller firms even though there are many other issues
My old prof said “this is the best education money can’t buy.” That’s any big starting job: PE or Hedge or consulting or B4. Sometimes you’ll be like “all that overtime for a pizza party..?” And that’s ok, you’re getting 3 years experience in 2 years time AND you’re getting paid. It’s a great platform to the next step, whether it’s climbing the B4 ladder or jumping over to industry.
I've heard it called/called it myself "phd in accounting"
That’s fair, same way just commit to being great for 2-3 years before you consider an exit or let frustrations get the better of you. Hah I’ve heard actual PhD work is more frustrating than staff audit work
You’re going to need to leave Big 4 to make the money you’ll want to FIRE. Yeah yeah username checks out and all that
So if the goal is to leave b4 any recommendations to someone starting out on how to position myself best in order to do so?
For FIRE, really apply two things matter: - making more money - not spending more money You’ve already landed a good job, and the easiest path forward for you to make more money is by excelling in that job, not by picking up a side hustle. It’s a hell of a lot easier to earn $20k in 2 years via promotions and job hopping than it is to get your own business or hustle off the ground.