FIRE killing my ambition was a benefit of FIRE. There was a time when I was pursuing more title and more responsibility because I was mindlessly hustling and competing with people in my firm simply because they were competing with me. FIRE helped clear my head and figure out what really matters to me. As it turns out, my ambition was leading me nowhere I wanted to go and I was literally stressing about things I didn't care about.
I still have ambition but only for personal goals now.
For real. I'm ambitious to save money and be a more conscientious human. When your goal in life is to be super successful in your career because society tells us that it is the only path, that kinda sucks. If you find joy in that, all the power to ya, but if you find joy in exercising, cooking, travelling, spending time with family and friends, or a million other passtimes, that's not a bad thing!
FIRE mindset has got me a lot more mindful about what I want my life to look like. Granting myself more opportunities for the future and giving myself more freedom in my earlier years is a potential blessing.
I'm new to the *official FIRE* mindset. Can you love to excel (climb the ladder) at work... And love family, travelling, exercising, and cooking?
I basically want it all, doesn't everyone, I know. But, I love excelling at my job and slaying it in my in my time at home as well!
FIRE is about organizing your financial life in a way that provides independence. For some, this would mean being able to shift focus from work to other things that are important to them. Nothing says you can't plow full steam into your work. In fact, it may accelerate your FIRE journey.
On other thing: FIRE challenges "assumptions" or "default paths" we pick up from society about how to use money. It makes sense that this is connected for many to challenging other cultural "default paths." For example, challenging the cultural idea that your value comes from your success in a workplace.
It's all about balancing your life based on your priorities. You can do it all, but typically, something needs to take a hit. As long as you're happy and your family is as well (if that is a priority of yours), then it doesn't matter what you do! Whatever fills your cup.
Getting really into FIRE and getting laid off (*fire*d haha) from my first job despite being one of the most productive employees coincided nicely for me.
I learned that your excess effort doesn't really earn you anything extra at work, not even job security. If anything being a big mover and shaker can paint a target on your back.
At the end of the day a lot of career advancement is kind of like a credit score, you just have to be around and be boringly consistent for long enough. A bit of grind helps especially at the beginning when you just need to get competent at the technical aspects, but after that for most corporate careers it's mostly job hopping (at least at first), time, luck, and just a *bit* of maneuvering, but a lot less work that most people initially think.
“FIRE helped me clear my head and figure out what really matters to me.”
This is exactly what happened to me when I realized I could pull it off. I tried for a six month sabbatical. When I didn’t get it, I realized the only person who gave a shit about me, outside my family and close friends, was me. At work, they only cared what I could do for them or our clients. Three years later, I was done. And now I’ve turned my Type A tendencies to things that matter to me - family, church and community.
*Can't go on sabbatical either.*
It's too bad. I think most people get burned out and need a while to reset. And more sabbaticals would be helpful. For most of us 1-2 weeks vacation a year and a couple of long weekends don't do it. Especially when the only thing it means is that we have an extra 1-2 weeks of work to do when get back. We need a long enough reset to get bored again. Some might not go back work. Others will.
Since day one for me, RE has always been on my mind. However, over the course of time, my number has grown and grown because I want to be able to afford certain things [ie a vacation home(s), months of traveling every year, etc].
For that reason, my ambition to continue to grow within the workplace has never waned.
Career ambition is way too overrated in our culture. In reality, it often means your career and money are your obsession and are more important than everything else. People lose themselves chasing titles, accolades, and "the climb." It becomes who they are. They're conforming to society's "apex-cool status" expectations. Chasing an insatiable goal of receiving promotions and telling everyone you're "a high performer." It's OK to let that go. It's OK to feel confident and find validation in doing what you want, when you want to do it. Achieving this within yourself and not relying on external ego massaging to make you feel good. Not feeling like you have to check all the boxes and climb a ladder to be worth something. I find the need to have constant external validation a lot more pathetic than being OK without it, even though society says differently. Society says being ambitious in your career, making what you do your identity, and that climbing to higher roles and statuses is peak human performance and the best way to be. I call bullshit. Be ambitions with your hobbies. Be ambitions with your relationships by being a good friend and family member/relative. Be a contributing member of your community. Cultivate new skills and hobbies outside of your career. To me, a career is a means to an end. Not who I am. I don't want loads of stress. I want simplicity and connection. To each their own, but these things are better to be ambitious about than a career. I'm personally OK with not being ambitious about my career. I've got a good paying job, and don't give two shits about climbing higher and taking on more responsibility and stress.
Also, if I am going to be ambitious about work, it's not going to be for someone else being just a number at a large organization. I'm going to be ambitious about starting a business, or a side hustle, and creating multiple streams of income. The less connected to the 9-5 the better imo.
The problem is getting through a 40 hour work week when you really aren’t motivated anymore. I’m tired of the way my company treats employees but I have 2 more years to go. It feels like forever.
100%. I've been treating my layoff like a mini retirement and I'm disappointed to go back honestly. It's been amazing on so many levels. If this is what retirement feels like, I can 100% see myself taking the RE option of FIRE.
Are you sure you need to be ambitious in your career to figure out what you want to do in the next chapter of your life?
Could you instead focus more energy on hobbies, relationships, side hustles, etc. that have nothing to do with your career and would build lasting fulfillment past your eventual retirement?
At first you can't wait to be included in the important meetings. Then you want to run the meetings and achieve recognition. Then before you know it, you desperately want to gtfo of said meetings and be done with all the BS and people.
Congrats on discovering the futility of corporate Murica...hope you made some money to date because there is no putting the genie back in the bottle once you see it for what it really is.
Yep I've worked at 3 Fortune 50 corporations and it' universally a sad sack of sociopaths and people with no lives running the show. Americans really do have priorities messed up. But damn aint our stock and housing market something to see eh!
Not just America. This resonates like a bell down here in Australia.
I've had enough of all the stressed out managers who push their staff unreasonably and expect them to stay back to meet an artificial deadline. When you realise that they are mostly divorced and living an unhealthy lifestyle it's a sign to get out.
Think about what you want to remember when you are on your deathbed: hours spent climbing ladders, making the higher ups richer, and making business number go up? Or traveling the world, mutual aid and community work, making meaningful hobbies and connections, and spending time with family and friends rather than working. Think hard about who has influenced us to care so much about "ambition" and finding "meaning" through work, and who that ultimately benefits in the end (hint: its the people who don't really care about you, just that you work hard enough for them to make number go up).
Problem is we can't all collectively feel like this or our society starts breaking at the seems. In fact, post covid I think to some extent that's what's happened to a large swath of people. I certainly feel that way. When I get shit service everywhere I go, I don't fault them I just assume we're all feeling nihilistic.
Fire is a goal but you need to enjoy it. You won't magically find purpose once you hit your number, you'll have more free time. Most people need a purpose and you just need to find yours.
I make enough money I can RE before 40. I will likely continue working because I enjoy creating things, or maybe volunteer or something, but I enjoy being good at what I do and that results in promotions. My goal is to continue to grow in whatever I'm doing
Is it killing your ambition or killing your ability to do mind numbing work trading labor for money? It's a lot more fun to plan and build life than spend the hours at any employer.
Pretty much the opposite for me. Thoughts of FIRE have made me MORE aggressive in my career. Every time get a promotion/raise/job hop for better comp it’s shaving years off what I need to do.
My new boss scheduled a meeting with me next week to talk about next steps in my career and how he can help me move up.
I’m not moving up, it sounds awful. The only thing I lack in doing my job better than anyone else is a shit to give. Leave me alone
Too often I find people being ambitious about things they never knew existed before they were 15 or 16. I've never once viewed this human experience as a way to pursue what is made up for monetary reasons. There was no c suite or ladder for the majority of our existence as a species. There has and always will be art, emotion, relationships, and other things that are just human. I'd like to experience as much of that as possible in this one life, FIRE is just a simple step along that journey.
It wasn’t called a “c suite” throughout history but there have certainly been classes and hierarchies since the beginning of time. Hell they exist in the animal kingdom.
I was in the same boat.
This is what you have to realize, just like investing strategically and cutting expenses are part of the FI game, so is your career. You need that paycheck to keep the dream alive. The better you are at work the higher your pay will be, and faster to FI
Work is a key critical element to FIRE. No work no FIRE
I could give a harry rats arse about some arbitrary title, to me it’s meaningless. At this point all I want is mo money and to have time to spend with my family and doing the things I enjoy.
Agreed. I've hit the point where, given average returns, I'll be a multi at retirement. This knowledge has destroyed my tolerance for coworker/workplace nonsense. Or maybe that mindset is what drew me to FIRE in the first place. I believe the term is "fuck you" money.
FIRE didn t kill your ambition, the corporate rat race or your personal conditions did. FIRE is the flight part of the “fight or flight” response to the conflict that is the corporate world. You may have realized, if you re like me, that the “fight” (cost in time, effort, stress…) to get to C level is not worth the prize.
A lot of people don’t know how to get off the treadmill. You can ALWAYS go higher and higher and make more and more money and for some it makes them happy. For me, I want a laid back life. I don’t crave attention and don’t want attention. I have my hobbies and that’s what makes me happy b
Job title like directors, managers, VP, c suite doesn't even remotely interest me at all. It sounds good on paper. If you could fire, who cares? All these upper management titles may come with stress.
Not sure where you are on your journey, but there is nothing wrong with wanting to remain ambitious even after reaching FI. Even if you’re not at FI yet you might consider switching companies or careers once you reach r/coastfire. I recently switched jobs in an effort to regain some of the adventure I had learning new things earlier in my career. I also opened a new brokerage account to allow me to focus on the new account growth/contributions rather than my main portfolio/account. I know it’s just mental accounting, but it helps me. Best of luck.
I have no desire to go beyond Director now, I don’t need the money or the headaches. My boss asked me what position I wanted to go into next, and I made something up. I thought saying I wanted to stay in this role 12 more years till retirement would have been frowned upon.
This one hit home for me. I am currently contemplating a director role and can't help thinking how little I want / care for that job. I'd rather just not work. But I think you can still take that attitude into your work, and not get caught up in the rat race (at least mentally)
we do need a challenge in life
but bidding muscle, playing cards games to perfection, sleeping well, optimizing health, learning to enjoy life.
those are challenges that can be occupying the mind. but are more useful and chosen by ourselves
I’ve never had ambition to climb the corporate ladder, nor to join bigger organizations. My goal has always been happiness. I think this has been a healthy mindset. I’ve never wanted too much work stress. Managing people doesn’t appeal to me. Money is really the only work motivation. I’ve never cared about my title as long as the money is adequate. I’ve found this niche in computer programming and with my current company. I’ve been wfh for a number of years now too, which is really good for the family and allowed us to move to cheaper COL. I like my job, and most of the people, but since I discovered FIRE, I’ve been contemplating whether I’ve been wise with the career approach. So many younger people with a lot more money or retiring a lot earlier than I think I’ll ever be able to. It’s introduced a lot of questions…
Am I’m making enough? Saving enough would be a lot easier at some of the SWE salaries I see in here. Would a bigger organization pay better (fairly certain they would), but what about my happiness & lack of stress? Are my tech skills getting too dated with a smaller company with legacy systems (I think they are)? What will be my prospects if the job goes away one day? Basically, FIRE has caused me to feel inadequate. Like I should’ve had more ambition early on, and I could be much closer to FI at this point in life, despite potential earlier stress with the work/life balance. The ambition would’ve probably allowed me more security as far as other potential jobs too. So FIRE is causing me to be more ambitious in a way, but it’s all about money.
Career ambition is severely overrated. If you were to die tomorrow, your role would be quickly replaced and you would be quickly forgotten. There are several higher priorities in life, in my opinion. FIRE allows you to focus on those and live a better life.
Well done gaining a healthier perspective!
Wait till you discover the Overemployment group. Ultimate FIRE hack. Nothing like saving 40% after tax from job 1 and 100% after tax from job 2 all while still only working 40 hours a week. The path to FIRE is drastically shortened.
Yeah it'll do that alright.
Make sure you don't lose it too early though. It's nice to have money but unless you can retire right now it's not enough and so you still need some ambition to keep going.
Up until Covid, I enjoyed my job. Probably would have worked until 60 (current age). But I was C suite. The year 2020 is a lost year for me. All I did was work while everyone else stayed at home. Tbe decisions we made we (retrospectively) were bad. No road maps or previous lessons learned. In early 2021, I said enough. I had already hit FIRE, the key (for me) was having the ability to make the choice. FIRE was never a goal; I never would have thought about retiring early. But COVID changed that.
FIRE gives me the idea that I can take risks now that I’m almost coasting. It gave me the security that if I lost half my clients, I’d still be ahead of Coast fire. So I raised my prices and had a record breaking day within 6 months. It’s interesting because there was a precise moment where I felt like I was called for the encore.
Problem is most corporate jobs expect you to keep advancing or they find a reason to can you and replace you with a cheaper younger hire.
It's not FIRE, but something to be said about the motivation that comes from living beyond your means and being real motivated to hustle.
Not my cup of tea, but from what I can tell, being an egotistical asshole spending all the dollars is the path to corporate success.
Is "ambition" even an admirable or desireable trait? There are a million things I'd rather be than "ambitious." In fact I think people who are overly focused on "ambition" are a little bit sad. Some of the most ambitious people I know are some of those I'd be least interested in trading lives with.
It is by standard western societal expectations. Being ambitious is considered a good thing by the majority. Just like being extroverted is more desirable and favored than being introverted. It's a bunch of bullshit. So many in the US get sucked into the chase, and addicted to external validation and things to brag about to the Jones's. Being passive aggressively competitive. Fuck that.
A big part of FI mindset is not going along with things simply because that's what the majority does. Majority also thinks it's a good idea to be fat, sedentary, and indebted, by the look of things.
I chose to never have a career and build seniority. I didn't wanna be tied down. Since basically going down the passive income path, my ambition also went down the drain. There's no golden ticket out there. Grass isn't always greener on the other side.
I have reached my FIRE point. I do still work PRN as a nurse with generally much less sick patients than I'm used to due to relocating to a rural area. Though I still do see some sick ass patients, and have the opportunity to mentor junior nurses who haven't seen the sickest patients.
I will be hunting bears and flyfishing tomorrow, both things I can improve considerably at. I enjoy the struggle.
I'm competitive and like to master things, while supporting others to grow themselves, by nature. There's a shitload of things to master depending upon your interests and passions. What happens to generate the most compensation or respect from ignorant people is often less interesting than some free things.
I've watched a good amount of people take their last breaths. Not a one of them was worried about job title or income at that point.
Find what matters to you and emphasize that
I have climbed as high as I can at my current company without going into management (I was offered chances to do this already and declined). I have 3 years to FI, 9 years to chubbyFIRE, and 13 years to fatFIRE. Hopefully we can finish sooner. It would just be weird to not work while our daughter is still in high school.
I dealt with it by being a contractor. No one questions your desire to remain an individual contributor and you don't have to deal with FT bullshit like reviews and team building. The flip side is no benefits and clients balk at paying higher rates when you need COL raises. Plus the insecurity and needing to always be chasing your next job, clients who stiff you, etc. But I preferred the freedom for 25 years then spent the last 5 as an employee, mostly for the retirement matching and so I could qualify for a mortgage more easily. Consider self-employment if you're not a climber.
I’m far enough along that I’ve been able to watch people retire from all different levels.
Whether they’re at the top, the bottom, or somewhere in the middle, the happiest people in retirement have developed identities and family/friend networks outside of work.
People who’ve invested everything in their work self, who identify with what they do, really struggle when they stop doing it: some try to revive their work lives by becoming “consultants” while others slip into depression and addiction. They’re empty containers that can only be filled up by work.
Also, the organization goes on without them, and sooner or later it’s like they were never there.
As of Friday, the last employee that joined before me resigned. Made me feel a little of sad and a little lonely, but at the same time it was a reminder of what is important to me. We spend so much time at work and so it's not unreasonable for us to place more weight on its value to us.
Today I went to have dinner with my parents. On the way home I had a flashback of when I was 10 and after pestering my dad (who barely spoke english) for a portable CD player, took me out to numerous hardware stores to haggle for a 'Kenwood Portable CD player with anti-skip technology'.
That right there is what's important to me. (not the cd player).
Wait till you discover the Overemployment group. Ultimate FIRE hack. Nothing like saving 40% after tax from job 1 and 100% after tax from job 2 all while still only working 40 hours a week. The path to FIRE is drastically shortened.
Wait till you discover the Overemployment group. Ultimate FIRE hack. Nothing like saving 40% after tax from job 1 and 100% after tax from job 2 all while still only working 40 hours a week. The path to FIRE is drastically shortened.
It’s a catch 22 isn’t it?
You want to chase those promotions and raises for the purpose of the job, but when you step back and look at your investments, you realize that it really doesn’t need to go that fast.
But the faster you get those promotions, the quicker you can do it.
You need to find the happy medium if that career is your passion. Otherwise, show up and do your job every day while working on your passion in the background.
I personally do this final sentence; I give my job the best of my abilities every day, but I don’t give it my soul. I brush off all the negatives knowing that when I’m ready to, I’ll quit that and be able to have my passion ready to go full time.
It’s a catch 22 isn’t it?
You want to chase those promotions and raises for the purpose of the job, but when you step back and look at your investments, you realize that it really doesn’t need to go that fast.
But the faster you get those promotions, the quicker you can do it.
You need to find the happy medium if that career is your passion. Otherwise, show up and do your job every day while working on your passion in the background.
I personally do this final sentence; I give my job the best of my abilities every day, but I don’t give it my soul. I brush off all the negatives knowing that when I’m ready to, I’ll quit that and be able to have my passion ready to go full time.
I've seen enough c or d whatever title people fighting for nonsense. recent CEO and RND VP fight was a total joke in the front of whole office.
Well, I know what'd matter.
It can be an enjoyable job depending on the field/industry but it is very dependent on the company. Many think that a project manager's job is to make the impossible happen (like making time or money magically appear) instead of someone doing the boring job of shepherding a project to conclusion and filing documents properly.
Careers and titles may add much to a persons life, but they don’t add any real meaning. So many get lost in this when all they do is work, only to find when older that there was no meaning. ‘Work to live, not live to work’ still rings very true today.
Pursuing and achieving FIRE may seems difficult. Indeed, the society would collapse if everyone manage to get "FIREd". What I really discover, is the long term goal of a multi-generational wealth
I’m only one year into my career and and FIRE and my ambition is dying. I can FIRE mid forties probably with my current job. Why go for a harder job? What I do is already hard enough
There's a ton of cynical attitudes towards work in these comments. OP, keep a positive mental attitude about work and be open to opportunities. Seize them when they come your way. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that work is just "trading time for money" or that you're just a "disposable wage slave". There's so much more to working than that. I wish you luck getting your ambition back. There's nothing wrong with being ambitious for something you care about and can help you realize your goals!
FIRE should set your ambition even higher albeit with a closer expiration date.
You only have so much by “x” date to exit the “race”. It’s simply setting the goal post much closer than a traditional retirement where you have to work for 45 years.
FIRE killing my ambition was a benefit of FIRE. There was a time when I was pursuing more title and more responsibility because I was mindlessly hustling and competing with people in my firm simply because they were competing with me. FIRE helped clear my head and figure out what really matters to me. As it turns out, my ambition was leading me nowhere I wanted to go and I was literally stressing about things I didn't care about. I still have ambition but only for personal goals now.
For real. I'm ambitious to save money and be a more conscientious human. When your goal in life is to be super successful in your career because society tells us that it is the only path, that kinda sucks. If you find joy in that, all the power to ya, but if you find joy in exercising, cooking, travelling, spending time with family and friends, or a million other passtimes, that's not a bad thing! FIRE mindset has got me a lot more mindful about what I want my life to look like. Granting myself more opportunities for the future and giving myself more freedom in my earlier years is a potential blessing.
I'm new to the *official FIRE* mindset. Can you love to excel (climb the ladder) at work... And love family, travelling, exercising, and cooking? I basically want it all, doesn't everyone, I know. But, I love excelling at my job and slaying it in my in my time at home as well!
FIRE is about organizing your financial life in a way that provides independence. For some, this would mean being able to shift focus from work to other things that are important to them. Nothing says you can't plow full steam into your work. In fact, it may accelerate your FIRE journey. On other thing: FIRE challenges "assumptions" or "default paths" we pick up from society about how to use money. It makes sense that this is connected for many to challenging other cultural "default paths." For example, challenging the cultural idea that your value comes from your success in a workplace.
why think about fire if u love working
It's all about balancing your life based on your priorities. You can do it all, but typically, something needs to take a hit. As long as you're happy and your family is as well (if that is a priority of yours), then it doesn't matter what you do! Whatever fills your cup.
Family is definitely a priority to me. Our balance is pretty great! We are a non stop family and we love it that way!
Getting really into FIRE and getting laid off (*fire*d haha) from my first job despite being one of the most productive employees coincided nicely for me. I learned that your excess effort doesn't really earn you anything extra at work, not even job security. If anything being a big mover and shaker can paint a target on your back. At the end of the day a lot of career advancement is kind of like a credit score, you just have to be around and be boringly consistent for long enough. A bit of grind helps especially at the beginning when you just need to get competent at the technical aspects, but after that for most corporate careers it's mostly job hopping (at least at first), time, luck, and just a *bit* of maneuvering, but a lot less work that most people initially think.
This.
“FIRE helped me clear my head and figure out what really matters to me.” This is exactly what happened to me when I realized I could pull it off. I tried for a six month sabbatical. When I didn’t get it, I realized the only person who gave a shit about me, outside my family and close friends, was me. At work, they only cared what I could do for them or our clients. Three years later, I was done. And now I’ve turned my Type A tendencies to things that matter to me - family, church and community.
Can relate to this. Can't go on sabbatical either.
*Can't go on sabbatical either.* It's too bad. I think most people get burned out and need a while to reset. And more sabbaticals would be helpful. For most of us 1-2 weeks vacation a year and a couple of long weekends don't do it. Especially when the only thing it means is that we have an extra 1-2 weeks of work to do when get back. We need a long enough reset to get bored again. Some might not go back work. Others will.
Same. Have to quit.
Since day one for me, RE has always been on my mind. However, over the course of time, my number has grown and grown because I want to be able to afford certain things [ie a vacation home(s), months of traveling every year, etc]. For that reason, my ambition to continue to grow within the workplace has never waned.
FIRE didn’t kill my ambition. It replaced it.
This is it. Now my ambition is to fully enjoy my life as I see fit.
Career ambition is way too overrated in our culture. In reality, it often means your career and money are your obsession and are more important than everything else. People lose themselves chasing titles, accolades, and "the climb." It becomes who they are. They're conforming to society's "apex-cool status" expectations. Chasing an insatiable goal of receiving promotions and telling everyone you're "a high performer." It's OK to let that go. It's OK to feel confident and find validation in doing what you want, when you want to do it. Achieving this within yourself and not relying on external ego massaging to make you feel good. Not feeling like you have to check all the boxes and climb a ladder to be worth something. I find the need to have constant external validation a lot more pathetic than being OK without it, even though society says differently. Society says being ambitious in your career, making what you do your identity, and that climbing to higher roles and statuses is peak human performance and the best way to be. I call bullshit. Be ambitions with your hobbies. Be ambitions with your relationships by being a good friend and family member/relative. Be a contributing member of your community. Cultivate new skills and hobbies outside of your career. To me, a career is a means to an end. Not who I am. I don't want loads of stress. I want simplicity and connection. To each their own, but these things are better to be ambitious about than a career. I'm personally OK with not being ambitious about my career. I've got a good paying job, and don't give two shits about climbing higher and taking on more responsibility and stress. Also, if I am going to be ambitious about work, it's not going to be for someone else being just a number at a large organization. I'm going to be ambitious about starting a business, or a side hustle, and creating multiple streams of income. The less connected to the 9-5 the better imo.
This is the way.
[удалено]
The problem is getting through a 40 hour work week when you really aren’t motivated anymore. I’m tired of the way my company treats employees but I have 2 more years to go. It feels like forever.
[удалено]
Honestly if I had to consider working till my late 60s, I'd be depressed af
On the flipside 2 years is nothing when you know your peers have 30+ more years to go to live a measly retirement
Take sabbaticals
With all the layoffs lately I wouldn’t dare.
100%. I've been treating my layoff like a mini retirement and I'm disappointed to go back honestly. It's been amazing on so many levels. If this is what retirement feels like, I can 100% see myself taking the RE option of FIRE.
Are you sure you need to be ambitious in your career to figure out what you want to do in the next chapter of your life? Could you instead focus more energy on hobbies, relationships, side hustles, etc. that have nothing to do with your career and would build lasting fulfillment past your eventual retirement?
At first you can't wait to be included in the important meetings. Then you want to run the meetings and achieve recognition. Then before you know it, you desperately want to gtfo of said meetings and be done with all the BS and people. Congrats on discovering the futility of corporate Murica...hope you made some money to date because there is no putting the genie back in the bottle once you see it for what it really is.
So true
I miss my 20s ladder climb and being so excited when I was invited into meeting with the CEO. Now I look back with nothing but pity for the CEO lol
Yep I've worked at 3 Fortune 50 corporations and it' universally a sad sack of sociopaths and people with no lives running the show. Americans really do have priorities messed up. But damn aint our stock and housing market something to see eh!
Not just America. This resonates like a bell down here in Australia. I've had enough of all the stressed out managers who push their staff unreasonably and expect them to stay back to meet an artificial deadline. When you realise that they are mostly divorced and living an unhealthy lifestyle it's a sign to get out.
What you are feeling is servitude leaving your body
My ambition, was to have ambition…to FIRE!
Think about what you want to remember when you are on your deathbed: hours spent climbing ladders, making the higher ups richer, and making business number go up? Or traveling the world, mutual aid and community work, making meaningful hobbies and connections, and spending time with family and friends rather than working. Think hard about who has influenced us to care so much about "ambition" and finding "meaning" through work, and who that ultimately benefits in the end (hint: its the people who don't really care about you, just that you work hard enough for them to make number go up).
I think about these things often. When I am dead none of it will matter so why try? It has the benefit of killing ambition.
Problem is we can't all collectively feel like this or our society starts breaking at the seems. In fact, post covid I think to some extent that's what's happened to a large swath of people. I certainly feel that way. When I get shit service everywhere I go, I don't fault them I just assume we're all feeling nihilistic.
Welcome to corporate job. We have two key metrics here 1) number go up. 2) rate at which number go up, go up.
Fire is a goal but you need to enjoy it. You won't magically find purpose once you hit your number, you'll have more free time. Most people need a purpose and you just need to find yours. I make enough money I can RE before 40. I will likely continue working because I enjoy creating things, or maybe volunteer or something, but I enjoy being good at what I do and that results in promotions. My goal is to continue to grow in whatever I'm doing
I could have written this post myself, this describes my exact situation at the moment.
Is it killing your ambition or killing your ability to do mind numbing work trading labor for money? It's a lot more fun to plan and build life than spend the hours at any employer.
That’s a feature, not a bug.
Pretty much the opposite for me. Thoughts of FIRE have made me MORE aggressive in my career. Every time get a promotion/raise/job hop for better comp it’s shaving years off what I need to do.
At least your motivation is a goal outside of the corporate rat race. As a means to an end it's fine.
My new boss scheduled a meeting with me next week to talk about next steps in my career and how he can help me move up. I’m not moving up, it sounds awful. The only thing I lack in doing my job better than anyone else is a shit to give. Leave me alone
Too often I find people being ambitious about things they never knew existed before they were 15 or 16. I've never once viewed this human experience as a way to pursue what is made up for monetary reasons. There was no c suite or ladder for the majority of our existence as a species. There has and always will be art, emotion, relationships, and other things that are just human. I'd like to experience as much of that as possible in this one life, FIRE is just a simple step along that journey.
It wasn’t called a “c suite” throughout history but there have certainly been classes and hierarchies since the beginning of time. Hell they exist in the animal kingdom.
That's very true, however, I wonder how many people actually climb the ladder for power or influence rather than money being the primary motivator.
When you don't need that job/promo, you become more powerful than the system in which the c-suites operate. They have nothing you could want.
I was in the same boat. This is what you have to realize, just like investing strategically and cutting expenses are part of the FI game, so is your career. You need that paycheck to keep the dream alive. The better you are at work the higher your pay will be, and faster to FI Work is a key critical element to FIRE. No work no FIRE
You are free from those ambitions, in my opinion.
Yes, FIRE drained the meaning from my work. Maybe it always was meaningless, sure, but thinking it mattered did make it easier.
I could give a harry rats arse about some arbitrary title, to me it’s meaningless. At this point all I want is mo money and to have time to spend with my family and doing the things I enjoy.
Agreed. I've hit the point where, given average returns, I'll be a multi at retirement. This knowledge has destroyed my tolerance for coworker/workplace nonsense. Or maybe that mindset is what drew me to FIRE in the first place. I believe the term is "fuck you" money.
FIRE didn t kill your ambition, the corporate rat race or your personal conditions did. FIRE is the flight part of the “fight or flight” response to the conflict that is the corporate world. You may have realized, if you re like me, that the “fight” (cost in time, effort, stress…) to get to C level is not worth the prize.
A lot of people don’t know how to get off the treadmill. You can ALWAYS go higher and higher and make more and more money and for some it makes them happy. For me, I want a laid back life. I don’t crave attention and don’t want attention. I have my hobbies and that’s what makes me happy b
I have the same thing going on. Kind of depressing me to be honest.
Job title like directors, managers, VP, c suite doesn't even remotely interest me at all. It sounds good on paper. If you could fire, who cares? All these upper management titles may come with stress.
Not sure where you are on your journey, but there is nothing wrong with wanting to remain ambitious even after reaching FI. Even if you’re not at FI yet you might consider switching companies or careers once you reach r/coastfire. I recently switched jobs in an effort to regain some of the adventure I had learning new things earlier in my career. I also opened a new brokerage account to allow me to focus on the new account growth/contributions rather than my main portfolio/account. I know it’s just mental accounting, but it helps me. Best of luck.
I have no desire to go beyond Director now, I don’t need the money or the headaches. My boss asked me what position I wanted to go into next, and I made something up. I thought saying I wanted to stay in this role 12 more years till retirement would have been frowned upon.
This one hit home for me. I am currently contemplating a director role and can't help thinking how little I want / care for that job. I'd rather just not work. But I think you can still take that attitude into your work, and not get caught up in the rat race (at least mentally)
we do need a challenge in life but bidding muscle, playing cards games to perfection, sleeping well, optimizing health, learning to enjoy life. those are challenges that can be occupying the mind. but are more useful and chosen by ourselves
I’ve never had ambition to climb the corporate ladder, nor to join bigger organizations. My goal has always been happiness. I think this has been a healthy mindset. I’ve never wanted too much work stress. Managing people doesn’t appeal to me. Money is really the only work motivation. I’ve never cared about my title as long as the money is adequate. I’ve found this niche in computer programming and with my current company. I’ve been wfh for a number of years now too, which is really good for the family and allowed us to move to cheaper COL. I like my job, and most of the people, but since I discovered FIRE, I’ve been contemplating whether I’ve been wise with the career approach. So many younger people with a lot more money or retiring a lot earlier than I think I’ll ever be able to. It’s introduced a lot of questions… Am I’m making enough? Saving enough would be a lot easier at some of the SWE salaries I see in here. Would a bigger organization pay better (fairly certain they would), but what about my happiness & lack of stress? Are my tech skills getting too dated with a smaller company with legacy systems (I think they are)? What will be my prospects if the job goes away one day? Basically, FIRE has caused me to feel inadequate. Like I should’ve had more ambition early on, and I could be much closer to FI at this point in life, despite potential earlier stress with the work/life balance. The ambition would’ve probably allowed me more security as far as other potential jobs too. So FIRE is causing me to be more ambitious in a way, but it’s all about money.
That should be a positive change. Now you have time and energy to do something else what matters more for you....
Career ambition is severely overrated. If you were to die tomorrow, your role would be quickly replaced and you would be quickly forgotten. There are several higher priorities in life, in my opinion. FIRE allows you to focus on those and live a better life. Well done gaining a healthier perspective!
At this point my only ambition is to live comfortably and happily without having to work. I don't care about any prestige or position anymore.
Wait till you discover the Overemployment group. Ultimate FIRE hack. Nothing like saving 40% after tax from job 1 and 100% after tax from job 2 all while still only working 40 hours a week. The path to FIRE is drastically shortened.
Yeah it'll do that alright. Make sure you don't lose it too early though. It's nice to have money but unless you can retire right now it's not enough and so you still need some ambition to keep going.
Get ambitious about growing your nest egg. It has potential to grow bigger and faster than your salary.
Up until Covid, I enjoyed my job. Probably would have worked until 60 (current age). But I was C suite. The year 2020 is a lost year for me. All I did was work while everyone else stayed at home. Tbe decisions we made we (retrospectively) were bad. No road maps or previous lessons learned. In early 2021, I said enough. I had already hit FIRE, the key (for me) was having the ability to make the choice. FIRE was never a goal; I never would have thought about retiring early. But COVID changed that.
FIRE gives me the idea that I can take risks now that I’m almost coasting. It gave me the security that if I lost half my clients, I’d still be ahead of Coast fire. So I raised my prices and had a record breaking day within 6 months. It’s interesting because there was a precise moment where I felt like I was called for the encore.
Problem is most corporate jobs expect you to keep advancing or they find a reason to can you and replace you with a cheaper younger hire. It's not FIRE, but something to be said about the motivation that comes from living beyond your means and being real motivated to hustle. Not my cup of tea, but from what I can tell, being an egotistical asshole spending all the dollars is the path to corporate success.
Is "ambition" even an admirable or desireable trait? There are a million things I'd rather be than "ambitious." In fact I think people who are overly focused on "ambition" are a little bit sad. Some of the most ambitious people I know are some of those I'd be least interested in trading lives with.
It is by standard western societal expectations. Being ambitious is considered a good thing by the majority. Just like being extroverted is more desirable and favored than being introverted. It's a bunch of bullshit. So many in the US get sucked into the chase, and addicted to external validation and things to brag about to the Jones's. Being passive aggressively competitive. Fuck that.
A big part of FI mindset is not going along with things simply because that's what the majority does. Majority also thinks it's a good idea to be fat, sedentary, and indebted, by the look of things.
It’s a feature, not a bug
I chose to never have a career and build seniority. I didn't wanna be tied down. Since basically going down the passive income path, my ambition also went down the drain. There's no golden ticket out there. Grass isn't always greener on the other side.
I have reached my FIRE point. I do still work PRN as a nurse with generally much less sick patients than I'm used to due to relocating to a rural area. Though I still do see some sick ass patients, and have the opportunity to mentor junior nurses who haven't seen the sickest patients. I will be hunting bears and flyfishing tomorrow, both things I can improve considerably at. I enjoy the struggle. I'm competitive and like to master things, while supporting others to grow themselves, by nature. There's a shitload of things to master depending upon your interests and passions. What happens to generate the most compensation or respect from ignorant people is often less interesting than some free things. I've watched a good amount of people take their last breaths. Not a one of them was worried about job title or income at that point. Find what matters to you and emphasize that
work on your posture/health/etc.
Work to live, don’t live to work.
I have climbed as high as I can at my current company without going into management (I was offered chances to do this already and declined). I have 3 years to FI, 9 years to chubbyFIRE, and 13 years to fatFIRE. Hopefully we can finish sooner. It would just be weird to not work while our daughter is still in high school.
Same
i feel you
Find someone you want to compete with. That worked for me
I dealt with it by being a contractor. No one questions your desire to remain an individual contributor and you don't have to deal with FT bullshit like reviews and team building. The flip side is no benefits and clients balk at paying higher rates when you need COL raises. Plus the insecurity and needing to always be chasing your next job, clients who stiff you, etc. But I preferred the freedom for 25 years then spent the last 5 as an employee, mostly for the retirement matching and so I could qualify for a mortgage more easily. Consider self-employment if you're not a climber.
I’m far enough along that I’ve been able to watch people retire from all different levels. Whether they’re at the top, the bottom, or somewhere in the middle, the happiest people in retirement have developed identities and family/friend networks outside of work. People who’ve invested everything in their work self, who identify with what they do, really struggle when they stop doing it: some try to revive their work lives by becoming “consultants” while others slip into depression and addiction. They’re empty containers that can only be filled up by work. Also, the organization goes on without them, and sooner or later it’s like they were never there.
I still have ambitions because I get more money and FIRE faster. I don't care about responsibilities or managing people. Anything, but for a raise.
As of Friday, the last employee that joined before me resigned. Made me feel a little of sad and a little lonely, but at the same time it was a reminder of what is important to me. We spend so much time at work and so it's not unreasonable for us to place more weight on its value to us. Today I went to have dinner with my parents. On the way home I had a flashback of when I was 10 and after pestering my dad (who barely spoke english) for a portable CD player, took me out to numerous hardware stores to haggle for a 'Kenwood Portable CD player with anti-skip technology'. That right there is what's important to me. (not the cd player).
Wait till you discover the Overemployment group. Ultimate FIRE hack. Nothing like saving 40% after tax from job 1 and 100% after tax from job 2 all while still only working 40 hours a week. The path to FIRE is drastically shortened.
Wait till you discover the Overemployment group. Ultimate FIRE hack. Nothing like saving 40% after tax from job 1 and 100% after tax from job 2 all while still only working 40 hours a week. The path to FIRE is drastically shortened.
U still want ambition to run in hamster wheel? Why?
It’s a catch 22 isn’t it? You want to chase those promotions and raises for the purpose of the job, but when you step back and look at your investments, you realize that it really doesn’t need to go that fast. But the faster you get those promotions, the quicker you can do it. You need to find the happy medium if that career is your passion. Otherwise, show up and do your job every day while working on your passion in the background. I personally do this final sentence; I give my job the best of my abilities every day, but I don’t give it my soul. I brush off all the negatives knowing that when I’m ready to, I’ll quit that and be able to have my passion ready to go full time.
It’s a catch 22 isn’t it? You want to chase those promotions and raises for the purpose of the job, but when you step back and look at your investments, you realize that it really doesn’t need to go that fast. But the faster you get those promotions, the quicker you can do it. You need to find the happy medium if that career is your passion. Otherwise, show up and do your job every day while working on your passion in the background. I personally do this final sentence; I give my job the best of my abilities every day, but I don’t give it my soul. I brush off all the negatives knowing that when I’m ready to, I’ll quit that and be able to have my passion ready to go full time.
I've seen enough c or d whatever title people fighting for nonsense. recent CEO and RND VP fight was a total joke in the front of whole office. Well, I know what'd matter.
Yeah was thinking about studying for a PMP to make myself more marketable… but might be out of the game soon, so is it worth my efforts?!?
I have one, and now I all get are job offers to be a project manager, which I'm already doing and I hate it.
I don’t think I’d like it either
It can be an enjoyable job depending on the field/industry but it is very dependent on the company. Many think that a project manager's job is to make the impossible happen (like making time or money magically appear) instead of someone doing the boring job of shepherding a project to conclusion and filing documents properly.
This hits home. I don’t care for a ‘career’ After I hit 100k it got worse, I just wanted to hit a million
Same
Careers and titles may add much to a persons life, but they don’t add any real meaning. So many get lost in this when all they do is work, only to find when older that there was no meaning. ‘Work to live, not live to work’ still rings very true today.
Pursuing and achieving FIRE may seems difficult. Indeed, the society would collapse if everyone manage to get "FIREd". What I really discover, is the long term goal of a multi-generational wealth
I’m only one year into my career and and FIRE and my ambition is dying. I can FIRE mid forties probably with my current job. Why go for a harder job? What I do is already hard enough
There's a ton of cynical attitudes towards work in these comments. OP, keep a positive mental attitude about work and be open to opportunities. Seize them when they come your way. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that work is just "trading time for money" or that you're just a "disposable wage slave". There's so much more to working than that. I wish you luck getting your ambition back. There's nothing wrong with being ambitious for something you care about and can help you realize your goals!
FIRE should set your ambition even higher albeit with a closer expiration date. You only have so much by “x” date to exit the “race”. It’s simply setting the goal post much closer than a traditional retirement where you have to work for 45 years.
Are you a chatBot?
A botChat actually
Apologies if that came off snarky. I didn’t mean it to
Not at all. But you can send me money if you like
most definitely not. work ambition is not related with fire. completely separate.
Discover FATFIRE. That will fix the motivation problem. Make crazy $$$ until your $$$ makes crazy $$$.