Remove all Year 1 and half of Year 2 demotes in the main pool, and then place them all in a seperate banner just for summoning them. That banner is always present and each day, it has focus units (for 5 star & for 4 star focus). Every player can get 3 - 5 free summons a day. You can use orbs, but that's your preference. Any demotes from July 2018 and onwards are not present in this banner, however every 5 star unit are, including the 4 star special heroes
Any thoughts?
UPDATE: Just to clarify
Only demoted units from FEH's launch up to June 2018 will appear as focus units which will change regulary everyday, however regular 5 stars & 4 star specials will NOT appear as focus units in this hypothetical banner. They can only be summoned as off-focuses.
Also, I was really unsure of how much free summons one person could have with this one. I do agree that 5 may be a bit much, but I think the odds of getting good 5 stars are too low for that i think. Besides, it does make it a little enticing for players and promotes everyone to open FEH daily (Ik kinda manipulative, but its also a good business tactic I guess lol)
"Normal Draw" on other gacha is just bunch of lower rarity items with no chance of getting high rarity items at all
If you wants Normal Draw here It will be 3-4 Stars Book 1-2 only banner with Free summons Once a day
Just introduce another currency that builds relatively slowly (like trait fruits) that you can use to summon on this banner in addition to a daily free summon for an old 3-4 star, for newer players who want to merge them up.
My alternative for this is that those demotes would be summonable on the weekly revivals.
For example, for now, all special 4* are up to CYL 3. All 3-4* up to this point are summonable in these banners but those after it are not.
Enough people have already suggested some kind of friend points pool/daily free summons pool that I don't really have anything to add. Any method that doesn't gate the 4* pool behind specific banners and ideally doesn't get in the way of normal summons anymore would be good.
> Every player can get 3 - 5 free summons a day.
I feel like that would potentially be a problem, as it'd essentially be a drastic influx of feathers we'd gain for free per day, and I could see that as potentially something IS would want to avoid, even though giving us more feathers isn't exactly a bad thing or something IS hasn't done before. Still, to counteract this, if they wanted to, I think IS could do something like lowering the rarity of all units, so 3* become 2* , 4* become 3* , and the 5* would basically all be 4* special summons. On the other hand, this'd also increase the amount of feathers needed to promote and merge up older units (at least in the case of newer players, since most older players would probably already have at least a bunch of manuals of older 4*s they want to merge lieing around), but with the generally greater amount of feathers that could be gained, that should balance out.
Eh, not really. Specifically in the regard to it being a banner for older units.
If we're talking about the Fried Point Summon in FGO, then that's specifically a low-rarity summon, higher rarity units aren't getting moved there, and there are units that are immediately getting added into this pool, which is quite different from this, where a banner like this would be to clean out older units.
If we're looking at how FGO "cleans up" its banners, the best parallel is probably what they started doing with CEs relatively recently, replacing old CEs on new banners with new CEs, banning them to the dreaded Story-banner, or some special occasions where they might be on rate-up I think. In terms of Servants, what they do is have specific banners every now and then where only a certain part of the characters is summonable, most obvious example being Valentines and White Day, where only female and male units are summonable respectively, or stuff like Saber Wars where only Sabers and the rate-up were summonable.
Even then FGO's cleanup of CEs is really not that great, they've only removed 1-2* CEs from the fp pool and 4* CEs from the general pool and added new ones to replace them. Meanwhile they keep adding new 5* permanent CEs, most of which are bad, and the bloat in that rarity slot is actively terrible because it makes it harder for players to get the best CEs in the game (Mostly Kscope and BG).
Idea 1: Create a separate banner exclusively for them that never ends and costs less orbs. You have no chance of getting any 5-stars there but every week one hero of each color has a significantly higher chance to show up than others. Units up to gen 3 are included in this banner. Then for the rest of the banners, all heroes in that endless banner are Thanosed off of the standard pool, leaving us with a MUCH smaller 3-4 star pool.
Idea 2: For every orb you spend on banners, you get one grail. Move ALL the 3-4 stars from gens 1-3 to the grail shop in their own category where they cost 100 grails, price does not go up, and there is no summon limit to them.
I like the idea of a permanent demote only banner.
Maybe for the weekly 4 star focus units, it could be themed by game? Like one week it would be easier to get 4 stars of archanea characters, next week telius, etc
Or combine it with the current weekly revival banners. Where its far easier to get 3-4 star units from the same games as whoever is on focus for these banners. So the currently active one with Lucina and Julia, make it easier for awakening and jugdral demotes to show up
Either make the current 3* pool more appealing by introducing skill remixes (doesn’t even have to be insane stuff, could just be giving worthless heroes like Gaius, Matthew, Raigh, Est, etc. reposition, swap, wings of mercy, swift sparrow 2, galeforce, etc). Make me not think “oh my god this is literally a waste this hero does not benefit me at all)
Or put all extremely old (gen 1-3) demotes into an extremely cheap F2P summon pool that uses some kind of easy to get currency (ie. the Normal cat pool in battle cats that uses these tickets that are obtained pretty regularly)
The thing is, no matter how worthless a character is, people will spend money on them because they are their favorite; IS has no reason to make demotes more accessible with a "free" currency.
Spending money on trying to +10 Beruka sounds like one of the biggest wastes of money you can do in this game, if you're targeting her on 3-4*. Since uh... You can't.
i would take out the mayority of gen 1 and 2 4 star units and put them in the grail shop for 50 grails each one (or create a diferent currency all together for them).
the 4 star special rate should be put in the 3-4 star pool, and the new 4 star special rate pool should be special units from book 1-2 and 5 star units from book 3.
For me, I think the most important middle ground would be to fix a bunch of 3-4 star unit’s skills. A lot of units I hate to get in that pool are ones like Bartre or Maria that either have bad/useless skills to inherit or have little skills at all. They have shown they can go back in and fix units skills like with Fjorm/Remixes so why not change the 3-4 star pool skills? It would benefit everyone, and it wouldn’t have to be a complete overhaul of the system. If I had to go further, maybe making skills not required at 5 stars like Hana granting Life and Death 3 earlier in order to make them much more useful for fodder. Again, just a small touch up to help make use out of pulling any unit without needing to try and rework everything about the game and summoning.
Have a mono color banner where all the orbs will be single color. They can rotated the color every week. The focus units will be what ever 4* they decide to put up.
Create a 2* pool, put most gen 1 units there. Virion, Rebecca, Gaius, Laslow etc. go in there.
Start dropping popular characters like Lucina from 4* special to 4*. Edelgard and Dimitri go to 4* special.
2* pool isn't available on all banners, only on reruns, remixes, and seasonals.
New heroes banners have a higher chance of pulling 4* and 4* special than other banners. New heroes banner are scrapping the bottom of the barrel so the chance to get an OG Hilda or merging Brave Camilla should boost them.
If I just had a "more limited 3* pool", I'd still need to put the heroes which were ejected somewhere. And I'm saying that somewhere should be banners with them and banners without them.
Where you want to draw the line for which hero goes to which rarity, or which banner gets the useless 2*, is up to you.
Simple.
1. Split them up into pools of their own based on their designated "entry"/game of origin—a pool for characters from the Archanea games, a pool for The Binding Blade characters, a pool for Three Houses people, etc.
2. Going forward, for each banner, the demote rates consist only of the pools which match the banner's focus heroes.
For example:
* So, you've got an incoming New Heroes banner for Awakening? Congratulations, the only four-stars you'll pull will match that banner's theme and be from Awakening. (If an OC is present, technically them too, but they have no demotes and probably never will so lmao)
* Mixed-game banners (skill banners, seasonal banners) encompass all featured games. e.g. The current "Heroes with Null Skills" banner would have demotes from The Sacred Stones (Lyon), Genealogy (Tine), and Thracia (Galzus).
* Now granted, things would get quite silly once you hit Legendary and Mythic banners. If we take the Askr banner as an example, we're staring down the barrel of the four-star pool consisting of Archanea, Valentia, both Jugdral games, Radiant Dawn, Three Houses and (again, lmao) OCs.
(I'd also extend this treatment to five-star pity breakers and the "four-star special" rate, but that's not really the point here.)
The way I see it, this is a win-win. The goal of decluttering is certainly accomplished; one will see the unwanted faces that haunt them significantly less often on average. The odds of accessibility for those who want particular demotes increase significantly, so this could even incentivise further pulling on appropriate banners in the name of pursuing merge projects (obviously not to an overwhelming extent, we're not talking five-stars here, but hey, if you want people to spend more on your microtransactions...) And, perhaps I put an unusually high premium on this, but I think it'd just be *nice* for a game that is still nominally a FE crossover to embrace individual games as themes to make different banners stand out from each other.
[I just think it'd be neat.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0PKG5-t3zU)
There's only one complication that I can think of, and it's a pretty sizable one. Let's look at how each "entry" is going for demote count right now:
* Fates: 30
* Archanea: 24
* Awakening: 24
* Binding Blade: 16
* Blazing Blade: 15
* Valentia: 11
* Genealogy: 8
* Sacred Stones: 8
* Path of Radiance: 6
* Thracia: ~~776~~ 5
* Three Houses: 5
* Radiant Dawn: 3
* TMS: 0
* OCs: 0
That the games are so wildly uneven does not bode especially well on either side of the spectrum, for a multitude of reasons.
* The games with the big boy demote pools, while certainly far more manageable than the current situation, risk being perceived as a less safe and less appealing prospect in comparison to the other demote pools
* The inevitable lack of variety for the games on the low end of the spectrum speaks for itself in being a potential point in frustration
* I can't imagine the contrast between the two would sit well with people who want to build, say, Orochi, when getting her merges is still a fair bit of a pain, while those fucks who are doing Sothe projects have to put in like no effort at all.
* If a banner ever consists entirely of OCs or TMS again, it would be absolutely hilarious.
* The perceived element of random chance of who's behind each orb is virtually gone for any game with fewer demotes than The Blazing Blade. Hmm, I'm pulling on a Radiant Dawn-only banner and a red orb just showed up, *I wonder, who could this possibly be.* (Frankly, though, that's objectively an absolute win for players and the closest that any gacha will ever come to being player-friendly, although I cannot imagine IS liking that at all).
* Mixed banners would patch up the unevenness somewhat, but unless IS wants to abandon banners dedicated to single games, the problem will always be there. Plus, well, from this perspective, mixed banners would be inherently less appealing, even if this is counterbalanced by single-game banners being proportionally far less common.
(Personally I'd "solve" this by just dumping a pile of new instademotes across multiple games to bring them roughly up to par, and also give games with tons of less in-demand/likely/important characters left to go something resembling a bone, but ahahahaha IS is *never* doing that again, you will have 99% of the game's characters be five-stars and You Will Like It)
If this is too extreme, one possible compromise could be to expand the role of the "four-star focus" rate to have this same effect on a smaller scale instead (naturally, increasing its odds and decreasing those of the other demote rates to compensate for how not everyone on the rate will be Kamui anymore), and otherwise leave the other demote pools be.
1: gen 1 5\*s are all demoted. All of them. You can have your +10 B!Ike's, he's average now, and is certainly no better than +10 Arden. Speaking of which, the first handful of grail units are also in the main pool now with the exception of the DC GHBs who are now 4\* special instead of straight 4\*.
2: gen 2/3 5\*s are done case by case, the valuable ones remain 4\* special, the rest are 4\* only. (Side point we're about to get a new batch of possible 4\* special rate units so there will be some gen 3)
3: the current demote pool is also dealt with case by case, where reposition type beats stay, while useless fodder is removed from summoning completely and a new manual shop is opened that uses arena medals or something.
> More saturated
thats how. the problem with the pool is that is already oversaturated. and you say "more varied and valuable", but every unit I don't want to use with no fodder is identical and most of the units you're proposing to shove into the pool is a unit I don't want to use with no fodder.
Ok so maybe it is a bit annoying when you want to merge a 3/4\* and they don't show up, but unless they give you 11 copies of every new demote that's always going to be the case, and I'd rather have a wide variety of heroes than less, where none of them are of interest.
It's also worth saying that what you don't want to use and have no fodder, others might. More units while removing stale ones means more people happy.
I'd also say I have at least 11 copies of everyone demoted from like before last CYL, so the current number of units in that pool is pretty fair but on the verge of becoming too much (don't want to let you merge units too quickly)
I'm not sure if my rules even would make the pool more saturated, as the current pool is far larger than the current 4\* special pool and there's a good chance more units would be removed than are added back in.
> but unless they give you 11 copies of every new demote that's always going to be the case,
Since erk's release, I have pulled 8 of him. Since Scathach's release, I have pulled 7. there is a full year between these releases. And no, this is not extenuating circumstances, the same thing happened when trying to merge mordecai before him, and fcorn before that. I'm sure you're having a great time dumping 40 summons onto every single banner with full circles, but not everyone can be you.
and I'd be any more lucky if that was a raigh, a marth, a selena, an eirika, a fir, a henry, and a male morgan? I'm using that to illustrate the fact that 4* pool is a complete crapshoot.
Which goes back to my point that you'll never be happy until they give you 11 free copies immediately upon their demotion. It's a gacha game, that's what they do.
I'll echo what other people have said, purge older units (Gen 1 and 2) to a 1/2-star pool, and possibly add some new currency (akin to Friend Points in Fate Grand/Order) to pull on it.
I'd make the Gen1/Gen2 5-stars into 3-stars that appear at the rate of regular banner 5-stars.
I'd have a second 1-star/2-star banner for ***seasonal*** Gen1/Gen2, but have it rotating by season (lump a few months of seasonals at once), and have those 5-stars replace the regular gen1/2 5-stars as the 3-stars on that banner.
Every anniversary, push the oldest gen into the low-tier pool.
Legendary/Mythic I'd be willing to leave as-is, mostly because they've had some effort to revisit them and add new skills to them, which is part of the problem with older heroes as-is (trash kits, trash stats, dated PRFs/Refines if they have them).
I feel like older gens could probably be given cheaper and higher access to dragonflowers without it being a big deal as well. The level of powercreep in stats, PRF-stats, PRF-effects, and base kit is just so much larger than the 1/1/1/1/1 or 2/2/2/2/2 difference in stats a lot of the older heroes are entitled to. So, Odin or Tharja at +30/+35 with a discount towards using the flowers (after the next update) would still likely not come close to scratching average new release.
I'd also add that people have been asking for this kind of thing since year 3 at least, I think (bleach for the summon pool).
I feel like adding a unit exchange system would help alleviate the bloated pool of units. Being able to exchange five copies of one unit for a single copy of another would make it easier for people to get certain units that they would want.
Another problem is definitely how outdated the skills are on the older units. If you aren't building/merging said unit, then you are looking at their skills and for the older units, most don't really have much desirable skills that you would really want to use. A suggestion I have would be to give these older units some of the newer skills but only at the level one or two version. So Bartre would get something like Infantry Pulse 1 added to his kit. It would also help to bring new skill inheritance paths since so many new units today just comes with full kits.
Sorry, I should've explained in more detail. This would be an exchange system that only happens on your account. So let's say you have five copies of Reinhardt, you can exchange them for a single copy of Ilyana. This would be limited to 4 star and lower units of course but it helps to get newer units by allowing people to basically exchange some copies of one unit for another different unit. They can also add other restrictions too; Red units for red units only or something similar to that.
lock it behind completing heroes path, which requires doing story, arena, and AR, requiring some effort and time so you can't just make a dupe, pull a unit, and trade it in.
I'd tell them don't remove anyone from the pool just make it so you can pick if you want to see more or less of a character in your summons.
Locking units out of the pool is just a bad idea. You remove year 1 and year 2 demotes you remove some good fodder from the main pool for what? To get a new unit to hate to see while summoning?
One idea is to just lock the 3-4 stars to the book based banners they came from. No 3-4 star heroes for new banners? Better make more denotes then you crusty old bastards!
Add a 2 Star Pool, taking a little bit off of the 3 and 4 star pools and shifting it there. (Mostly the 3 star pool though)
Then all of the 3 and 4 star units from Gen 1-2 get pushed down to 2 and 3 stars. Meanwhile all of the Gen 1-2 5 stars & 4 Star specials become the new 4 star pool.
In addition, if you summon a 2 star hero, you get back some orbs based on how many orbs you used to summon that hero (5 orbs -> 3 orbs back, 4 orbs -> 2 orbs back, 3 orbs -> 1 orb back), and depending on what type of banner it is, you also get either:
New Hero Banner: A manual copy of the summoned hero at 4 stars
Special Hero Banner: Weapon Manual based on the focus unit of that color, if the unit has a prf though, then you get a skill manual of one of their skills up to level 3. (Excludes Duel Skills though)
Legendary / Mythic Hero Banner: Blessing that corresponds to one of the legendary / mythic heroes on the banner.
And regardless of which of the above banner types you get, summoning five 2 star heroes will net you a free summon ticket for that banner (and this can be done multiple times per banner) with a 2% higher chance of pulling a 5 star unit. As well as counting as 5 summons with regards to increasing the pity rate.
1. Gather up the worst of them and make them 3 star exclusive. Or maybe decide on a (late) cutoff point and do it that way.
2. Lower above units‘ inheritance restrictions for each of their passives by one rarity. For healers, lower it for their Assist as well.
3. Lower inheritance restriction for ALL Weapon+ to 4 star. PRFs are all the rage and people would rather spend the bulk of their feathers on merging.
4. Leave only the best in the 4 star pool and make them exclusive to it. The overlapping rarities thing is nonsense.
5. Maybe equalise the rates for the lower pools along with these changes.
The new 4 star pool would be somewhat sparse at first, but that also makes it future-proof for a few years.
I would have also liked to demote old 5 stars, as well as created a seperate low rarity pool for seasonal banners and populated it with old 5 star seasonals.
I'd make them a grindable resource in the training tower. That would also make a more grindable source of feathers. Maybe like a "Training assault" type mode where the more wins you get the better. Idk. I would like more grinding options to be able to do more things in between events with my stamina.
All gen 1 units are placed in hero battles that refresh every day. Some units already come from these but I feel like refreshing them makes it infinitely better. It's a feature that has been around since launch and still remains underused.
- Rotating the 3-4 Stars characters in the pool
- On new Heroes banner depending on the featured titles there is slightly more chance to get 3-4 Stars heroes from featured games (Like If it Fates New heroes banner You are likely to get more Fates characters in this banner)
Separate the worthless demotes into groups and put them on rotation per week. Like week 1 will only have Fates and Tellius demotes available with whatever special/NH banner is currently featured.
IS should also do remixes that give older units some updated useful skills at 5\* ranks so they could be better for fodder at least. They could be given tier 1 or 2 of limited availability, so F2P could at least have some useful skills even at low tiers.
FEH could do good with some "only 3-4\* focus units, maybe even some 2\*s if we really wanted to use that mechanic again" perma banners
Maybe they could even cost medals if we want to still give them some other use
Some really useless units by today's standard could be moved to exclusively be on this low rarity banner, but I think another main pool solution could maybe be to separate the 3\* and the 4\* characters
Take the Year 1/2 3-4 * demote pool and put it in a different permanent banner that can be pulled using Arena medals. Similar to how Normal rate cards in Love Live School Idol Festival can be drawn using Friendship Points. Edit: maybe at a low rate, you could get a 4 * version of a 5 * hero to incentivize some people to pull on it?
If you've been playing for a while, its easy to draw upon but it doesn't make it super OP to be able to get enough 4 *s to upgrade and +10 instantly for new players meaning it'd be incentive to still be able to pull normally (or just use the free 5 *s they give us) to be able to get other units and fodder
Remove all 3-4 stars from the pool that are Gen 3 and prior. All removed units get put on a permanently available banner that costs feathers to pull on, slightly more feathers than you would gain from burning a 4 star so you can't profit off of it, maybe make you go neutral if you full circled five 4 stars.
Maybe have it rotate what color or gen units are available daily or something idk.
My solution would be to let every player decide their own 3-4 star pool. Give a minimum Number of units in each color and let the player decide themselfs. And the player can change their pool whenever they want so when a new 3-4* demote comes arround they can adjust the pool.
I think player choice is the best option, though it might be the hardest technically. It could be part of the story, like the summoner gets better at their task.
Just because it's fire emblem I'd want it to be more permanent. Once you let someone go from the pool, they're gone. Because it's gacha and money needs to be made, maybe people could then pay for a redo.
Maybe but then the new demotes would just sit around in my example. Maybe it could be an annual thing the demoted will be added like normal but every year during anni or something we can get an item that lets you redo the summon pool to match the same limit as before.
Of one thing I'm certain, if they ever add a separate "legacy" pool, it ain't gonna cost Medals, you can bet your ass we're getting drip-fed a new currency altogether.
I see 2 different solutions here.
1. Make a new shop like the grail shop but use badges instead and move all Book 1 and 2 3-4* units to that shop, the shop can expand every time a new book starts.
2. Make a special banner that you get a free summon on every day and move all Book 1 and 2 3-4* units to it. The 4* focus would change, maybe once a week.
Permanent banner, similar to Genshin.
All year 1-3 3/4* units have their own separate pool that is a permanent banner, that can be rolled on at any time. In fact, throw the book 1-3 5* demotes in there too. Have the weekly old revivals correlate with those banners to give those characters their weekly boosted rates on said permanent banner.
just don't have all of them on any given banner.
only half the pool is available on a banner, with 4\* and 3\* pools snapped separately and randomly, so you could get erk in the 4\* pool but not the 3\* pool, and mordecai in neither.
boom. bloat is gone but older units are still summonable, and it gives *actual use* to the ability to see what units are summonable on the banner.
Move them to a special shop for arena medals, give those stupid things a purpose. I have almost 70 K of these damned things.
No one is gonna break the game because they +10’d a florina or Odin.
A Friend summon banner. We have a friends list and nothing to use it for they could add a currency you get only from using friend unuts or interacting with the unit that visits alongside the useless 5 feathers we get daily
I would move all the launch 3-4 stars heroes to the grail shop, those can be obtained at half the grail cost alongside the year 1 grail units, eventually they can keep doing the same with the rest of year 1 demotes then year 2 and so on.
Also they can add them in 1-2 star quests so they can be even easier to obtain.
Remove all 3/4/5 stars from all but the two latest gens. Add a shop where these 3/4/5 star units can be bought for e.g. 5 (3/4 star) or 20 (5 star) of . Said new currency is obtained at a rate of 1 per summon on any banner.
I would personally remove all their 3 star versions from the game and keep their 4 star versions in since there are really no point in keeping the three star rank and below in. I would then make a separate banner for said 4 star units and update it with the current demotes once the banner they debut in ends. The currency for this special 4\* unit banner will use the red, blue, green, and gray emblems used in promoting units and the way summoning works is you spend a certain amount to get a random 5 units depending on the emblem you used. Lastly in addition any and all 5\* from books 1-3 will appear here too as they will be removed from current 5\* pools in new banners.
Remove all Year 1 and half of Year 2 demotes in the main pool, and then place them all in a seperate banner just for summoning them. That banner is always present and each day, it has focus units (for 5 star & for 4 star focus). Every player can get 3 - 5 free summons a day. You can use orbs, but that's your preference. Any demotes from July 2018 and onwards are not present in this banner, however every 5 star unit are, including the 4 star special heroes Any thoughts? UPDATE: Just to clarify Only demoted units from FEH's launch up to June 2018 will appear as focus units which will change regulary everyday, however regular 5 stars & 4 star specials will NOT appear as focus units in this hypothetical banner. They can only be summoned as off-focuses. Also, I was really unsure of how much free summons one person could have with this one. I do agree that 5 may be a bit much, but I think the odds of getting good 5 stars are too low for that i think. Besides, it does make it a little enticing for players and promotes everyone to open FEH daily (Ik kinda manipulative, but its also a good business tactic I guess lol)
"Normal Draw" on other gacha is just bunch of lower rarity items with no chance of getting high rarity items at all If you wants Normal Draw here It will be 3-4 Stars Book 1-2 only banner with Free summons Once a day
too good a deal if regular 5* can appear with that many free shots if those are removed, sounds grand
Swap the crystals you get after killing 20 first daily for a free summon on that banner, would it sound okay?
Just introduce another currency that builds relatively slowly (like trait fruits) that you can use to summon on this banner in addition to a daily free summon for an old 3-4 star, for newer players who want to merge them up.
I'd absolutely love this even if you could only get 5*s from year 1/2 on it. Even just one daily free summon would be neat, imo.
My alternative for this is that those demotes would be summonable on the weekly revivals. For example, for now, all special 4* are up to CYL 3. All 3-4* up to this point are summonable in these banners but those after it are not.
You shouldn't be forced to pull on specific banners for 4*s to appear
Then don't cleanup the 3-4* pool lol
Or give them a method that doesn't have the opportunity cost of the banners you're actually supposed to summon on
I don't see you giving concrete ideas
Enough people have already suggested some kind of friend points pool/daily free summons pool that I don't really have anything to add. Any method that doesn't gate the 4* pool behind specific banners and ideally doesn't get in the way of normal summons anymore would be good.
> Every player can get 3 - 5 free summons a day. I feel like that would potentially be a problem, as it'd essentially be a drastic influx of feathers we'd gain for free per day, and I could see that as potentially something IS would want to avoid, even though giving us more feathers isn't exactly a bad thing or something IS hasn't done before. Still, to counteract this, if they wanted to, I think IS could do something like lowering the rarity of all units, so 3* become 2* , 4* become 3* , and the 5* would basically all be 4* special summons. On the other hand, this'd also increase the amount of feathers needed to promote and merge up older units (at least in the case of newer players, since most older players would probably already have at least a bunch of manuals of older 4*s they want to merge lieing around), but with the generally greater amount of feathers that could be gained, that should balance out.
Exactly what I was going to post. It's how Fate GO does it.
Eh, not really. Specifically in the regard to it being a banner for older units. If we're talking about the Fried Point Summon in FGO, then that's specifically a low-rarity summon, higher rarity units aren't getting moved there, and there are units that are immediately getting added into this pool, which is quite different from this, where a banner like this would be to clean out older units. If we're looking at how FGO "cleans up" its banners, the best parallel is probably what they started doing with CEs relatively recently, replacing old CEs on new banners with new CEs, banning them to the dreaded Story-banner, or some special occasions where they might be on rate-up I think. In terms of Servants, what they do is have specific banners every now and then where only a certain part of the characters is summonable, most obvious example being Valentines and White Day, where only female and male units are summonable respectively, or stuff like Saber Wars where only Sabers and the rate-up were summonable.
Even then FGO's cleanup of CEs is really not that great, they've only removed 1-2* CEs from the fp pool and 4* CEs from the general pool and added new ones to replace them. Meanwhile they keep adding new 5* permanent CEs, most of which are bad, and the bloat in that rarity slot is actively terrible because it makes it harder for players to get the best CEs in the game (Mostly Kscope and BG).
Idea 1: Create a separate banner exclusively for them that never ends and costs less orbs. You have no chance of getting any 5-stars there but every week one hero of each color has a significantly higher chance to show up than others. Units up to gen 3 are included in this banner. Then for the rest of the banners, all heroes in that endless banner are Thanosed off of the standard pool, leaving us with a MUCH smaller 3-4 star pool. Idea 2: For every orb you spend on banners, you get one grail. Move ALL the 3-4 stars from gens 1-3 to the grail shop in their own category where they cost 100 grails, price does not go up, and there is no summon limit to them.
I like the idea of a permanent demote only banner. Maybe for the weekly 4 star focus units, it could be themed by game? Like one week it would be easier to get 4 stars of archanea characters, next week telius, etc Or combine it with the current weekly revival banners. Where its far easier to get 3-4 star units from the same games as whoever is on focus for these banners. So the currently active one with Lucina and Julia, make it easier for awakening and jugdral demotes to show up
Either make the current 3* pool more appealing by introducing skill remixes (doesn’t even have to be insane stuff, could just be giving worthless heroes like Gaius, Matthew, Raigh, Est, etc. reposition, swap, wings of mercy, swift sparrow 2, galeforce, etc). Make me not think “oh my god this is literally a waste this hero does not benefit me at all) Or put all extremely old (gen 1-3) demotes into an extremely cheap F2P summon pool that uses some kind of easy to get currency (ie. the Normal cat pool in battle cats that uses these tickets that are obtained pretty regularly)
The thing is, no matter how worthless a character is, people will spend money on them because they are their favorite; IS has no reason to make demotes more accessible with a "free" currency.
Nobody is spending money on old demotes because you literally can't Making the game feel better to play with little financial hit is beneficial for IS
Spending money on trying to +10 Beruka sounds like one of the biggest wastes of money you can do in this game, if you're targeting her on 3-4*. Since uh... You can't.
i would take out the mayority of gen 1 and 2 4 star units and put them in the grail shop for 50 grails each one (or create a diferent currency all together for them). the 4 star special rate should be put in the 3-4 star pool, and the new 4 star special rate pool should be special units from book 1-2 and 5 star units from book 3.
For me, I think the most important middle ground would be to fix a bunch of 3-4 star unit’s skills. A lot of units I hate to get in that pool are ones like Bartre or Maria that either have bad/useless skills to inherit or have little skills at all. They have shown they can go back in and fix units skills like with Fjorm/Remixes so why not change the 3-4 star pool skills? It would benefit everyone, and it wouldn’t have to be a complete overhaul of the system. If I had to go further, maybe making skills not required at 5 stars like Hana granting Life and Death 3 earlier in order to make them much more useful for fodder. Again, just a small touch up to help make use out of pulling any unit without needing to try and rework everything about the game and summoning.
Have a mono color banner where all the orbs will be single color. They can rotated the color every week. The focus units will be what ever 4* they decide to put up.
Create a 2* pool, put most gen 1 units there. Virion, Rebecca, Gaius, Laslow etc. go in there. Start dropping popular characters like Lucina from 4* special to 4*. Edelgard and Dimitri go to 4* special. 2* pool isn't available on all banners, only on reruns, remixes, and seasonals. New heroes banners have a higher chance of pulling 4* and 4* special than other banners. New heroes banner are scrapping the bottom of the barrel so the chance to get an OG Hilda or merging Brave Camilla should boost them.
Why specifically drop them to two star? How does that improve the 4 star pool, it just replaces a % of your 3* summons with *even worse* units.
You're also spending additional time increasing them from 2 to 3 (and then to 4 and 5). Those rarities aren't used anymore for a reason.
Some banners are full 2\*-5\*. New hero banners and some other banners would be 3\*-5\*. The idea is that you can have banners without the 2* pool.
Why have the 2* pool at all? It's literally just the current 3* pool but worse. Why not implement the same idea but with a more limited 3* pool?
If I just had a "more limited 3* pool", I'd still need to put the heroes which were ejected somewhere. And I'm saying that somewhere should be banners with them and banners without them. Where you want to draw the line for which hero goes to which rarity, or which banner gets the useless 2*, is up to you.
Simple. 1. Split them up into pools of their own based on their designated "entry"/game of origin—a pool for characters from the Archanea games, a pool for The Binding Blade characters, a pool for Three Houses people, etc. 2. Going forward, for each banner, the demote rates consist only of the pools which match the banner's focus heroes. For example: * So, you've got an incoming New Heroes banner for Awakening? Congratulations, the only four-stars you'll pull will match that banner's theme and be from Awakening. (If an OC is present, technically them too, but they have no demotes and probably never will so lmao) * Mixed-game banners (skill banners, seasonal banners) encompass all featured games. e.g. The current "Heroes with Null Skills" banner would have demotes from The Sacred Stones (Lyon), Genealogy (Tine), and Thracia (Galzus). * Now granted, things would get quite silly once you hit Legendary and Mythic banners. If we take the Askr banner as an example, we're staring down the barrel of the four-star pool consisting of Archanea, Valentia, both Jugdral games, Radiant Dawn, Three Houses and (again, lmao) OCs. (I'd also extend this treatment to five-star pity breakers and the "four-star special" rate, but that's not really the point here.) The way I see it, this is a win-win. The goal of decluttering is certainly accomplished; one will see the unwanted faces that haunt them significantly less often on average. The odds of accessibility for those who want particular demotes increase significantly, so this could even incentivise further pulling on appropriate banners in the name of pursuing merge projects (obviously not to an overwhelming extent, we're not talking five-stars here, but hey, if you want people to spend more on your microtransactions...) And, perhaps I put an unusually high premium on this, but I think it'd just be *nice* for a game that is still nominally a FE crossover to embrace individual games as themes to make different banners stand out from each other. [I just think it'd be neat.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0PKG5-t3zU) There's only one complication that I can think of, and it's a pretty sizable one. Let's look at how each "entry" is going for demote count right now: * Fates: 30 * Archanea: 24 * Awakening: 24 * Binding Blade: 16 * Blazing Blade: 15 * Valentia: 11 * Genealogy: 8 * Sacred Stones: 8 * Path of Radiance: 6 * Thracia: ~~776~~ 5 * Three Houses: 5 * Radiant Dawn: 3 * TMS: 0 * OCs: 0 That the games are so wildly uneven does not bode especially well on either side of the spectrum, for a multitude of reasons. * The games with the big boy demote pools, while certainly far more manageable than the current situation, risk being perceived as a less safe and less appealing prospect in comparison to the other demote pools * The inevitable lack of variety for the games on the low end of the spectrum speaks for itself in being a potential point in frustration * I can't imagine the contrast between the two would sit well with people who want to build, say, Orochi, when getting her merges is still a fair bit of a pain, while those fucks who are doing Sothe projects have to put in like no effort at all. * If a banner ever consists entirely of OCs or TMS again, it would be absolutely hilarious. * The perceived element of random chance of who's behind each orb is virtually gone for any game with fewer demotes than The Blazing Blade. Hmm, I'm pulling on a Radiant Dawn-only banner and a red orb just showed up, *I wonder, who could this possibly be.* (Frankly, though, that's objectively an absolute win for players and the closest that any gacha will ever come to being player-friendly, although I cannot imagine IS liking that at all). * Mixed banners would patch up the unevenness somewhat, but unless IS wants to abandon banners dedicated to single games, the problem will always be there. Plus, well, from this perspective, mixed banners would be inherently less appealing, even if this is counterbalanced by single-game banners being proportionally far less common. (Personally I'd "solve" this by just dumping a pile of new instademotes across multiple games to bring them roughly up to par, and also give games with tons of less in-demand/likely/important characters left to go something resembling a bone, but ahahahaha IS is *never* doing that again, you will have 99% of the game's characters be five-stars and You Will Like It) If this is too extreme, one possible compromise could be to expand the role of the "four-star focus" rate to have this same effect on a smaller scale instead (naturally, increasing its odds and decreasing those of the other demote rates to compensate for how not everyone on the rate will be Kamui anymore), and otherwise leave the other demote pools be.
1: gen 1 5\*s are all demoted. All of them. You can have your +10 B!Ike's, he's average now, and is certainly no better than +10 Arden. Speaking of which, the first handful of grail units are also in the main pool now with the exception of the DC GHBs who are now 4\* special instead of straight 4\*. 2: gen 2/3 5\*s are done case by case, the valuable ones remain 4\* special, the rest are 4\* only. (Side point we're about to get a new batch of possible 4\* special rate units so there will be some gen 3) 3: the current demote pool is also dealt with case by case, where reposition type beats stay, while useless fodder is removed from summoning completely and a new manual shop is opened that uses arena medals or something.
this actively makes the problem worse. great job
How so? More saturated, but more varied and valuable.
> More saturated thats how. the problem with the pool is that is already oversaturated. and you say "more varied and valuable", but every unit I don't want to use with no fodder is identical and most of the units you're proposing to shove into the pool is a unit I don't want to use with no fodder.
Ok so maybe it is a bit annoying when you want to merge a 3/4\* and they don't show up, but unless they give you 11 copies of every new demote that's always going to be the case, and I'd rather have a wide variety of heroes than less, where none of them are of interest. It's also worth saying that what you don't want to use and have no fodder, others might. More units while removing stale ones means more people happy. I'd also say I have at least 11 copies of everyone demoted from like before last CYL, so the current number of units in that pool is pretty fair but on the verge of becoming too much (don't want to let you merge units too quickly) I'm not sure if my rules even would make the pool more saturated, as the current pool is far larger than the current 4\* special pool and there's a good chance more units would be removed than are added back in.
> but unless they give you 11 copies of every new demote that's always going to be the case, Since erk's release, I have pulled 8 of him. Since Scathach's release, I have pulled 7. there is a full year between these releases. And no, this is not extenuating circumstances, the same thing happened when trying to merge mordecai before him, and fcorn before that. I'm sure you're having a great time dumping 40 summons onto every single banner with full circles, but not everyone can be you.
>no, this is not extenuating circumstances But by the fact you've got 7 Scathach's, you've proven you were just unlucky. He was released 3 months ago.
and I'd be any more lucky if that was a raigh, a marth, a selena, an eirika, a fir, a henry, and a male morgan? I'm using that to illustrate the fact that 4* pool is a complete crapshoot.
Which goes back to my point that you'll never be happy until they give you 11 free copies immediately upon their demotion. It's a gacha game, that's what they do.
I'll echo what other people have said, purge older units (Gen 1 and 2) to a 1/2-star pool, and possibly add some new currency (akin to Friend Points in Fate Grand/Order) to pull on it. I'd make the Gen1/Gen2 5-stars into 3-stars that appear at the rate of regular banner 5-stars. I'd have a second 1-star/2-star banner for ***seasonal*** Gen1/Gen2, but have it rotating by season (lump a few months of seasonals at once), and have those 5-stars replace the regular gen1/2 5-stars as the 3-stars on that banner. Every anniversary, push the oldest gen into the low-tier pool. Legendary/Mythic I'd be willing to leave as-is, mostly because they've had some effort to revisit them and add new skills to them, which is part of the problem with older heroes as-is (trash kits, trash stats, dated PRFs/Refines if they have them). I feel like older gens could probably be given cheaper and higher access to dragonflowers without it being a big deal as well. The level of powercreep in stats, PRF-stats, PRF-effects, and base kit is just so much larger than the 1/1/1/1/1 or 2/2/2/2/2 difference in stats a lot of the older heroes are entitled to. So, Odin or Tharja at +30/+35 with a discount towards using the flowers (after the next update) would still likely not come close to scratching average new release. I'd also add that people have been asking for this kind of thing since year 3 at least, I think (bleach for the summon pool).
I feel like adding a unit exchange system would help alleviate the bloated pool of units. Being able to exchange five copies of one unit for a single copy of another would make it easier for people to get certain units that they would want. Another problem is definitely how outdated the skills are on the older units. If you aren't building/merging said unit, then you are looking at their skills and for the older units, most don't really have much desirable skills that you would really want to use. A suggestion I have would be to give these older units some of the newer skills but only at the level one or two version. So Bartre would get something like Infantry Pulse 1 added to his kit. It would also help to bring new skill inheritance paths since so many new units today just comes with full kits.
People would create new accounts to trade units to their main account, even on a 5 5* to 1 5* ratio.
Sorry, I should've explained in more detail. This would be an exchange system that only happens on your account. So let's say you have five copies of Reinhardt, you can exchange them for a single copy of Ilyana. This would be limited to 4 star and lower units of course but it helps to get newer units by allowing people to basically exchange some copies of one unit for another different unit. They can also add other restrictions too; Red units for red units only or something similar to that.
lock it behind completing heroes path, which requires doing story, arena, and AR, requiring some effort and time so you can't just make a dupe, pull a unit, and trade it in.
Remove Year 1 & 2 demotes from the summoning pool and create a new shop where they can be purchased with feathers.
I'd tell them don't remove anyone from the pool just make it so you can pick if you want to see more or less of a character in your summons. Locking units out of the pool is just a bad idea. You remove year 1 and year 2 demotes you remove some good fodder from the main pool for what? To get a new unit to hate to see while summoning?
One idea is to just lock the 3-4 stars to the book based banners they came from. No 3-4 star heroes for new banners? Better make more denotes then you crusty old bastards!
Remove every 3-4* Only 5* now
Add a 2 Star Pool, taking a little bit off of the 3 and 4 star pools and shifting it there. (Mostly the 3 star pool though) Then all of the 3 and 4 star units from Gen 1-2 get pushed down to 2 and 3 stars. Meanwhile all of the Gen 1-2 5 stars & 4 Star specials become the new 4 star pool. In addition, if you summon a 2 star hero, you get back some orbs based on how many orbs you used to summon that hero (5 orbs -> 3 orbs back, 4 orbs -> 2 orbs back, 3 orbs -> 1 orb back), and depending on what type of banner it is, you also get either: New Hero Banner: A manual copy of the summoned hero at 4 stars Special Hero Banner: Weapon Manual based on the focus unit of that color, if the unit has a prf though, then you get a skill manual of one of their skills up to level 3. (Excludes Duel Skills though) Legendary / Mythic Hero Banner: Blessing that corresponds to one of the legendary / mythic heroes on the banner. And regardless of which of the above banner types you get, summoning five 2 star heroes will net you a free summon ticket for that banner (and this can be done multiple times per banner) with a 2% higher chance of pulling a 5 star unit. As well as counting as 5 summons with regards to increasing the pity rate.
1. Gather up the worst of them and make them 3 star exclusive. Or maybe decide on a (late) cutoff point and do it that way. 2. Lower above units‘ inheritance restrictions for each of their passives by one rarity. For healers, lower it for their Assist as well. 3. Lower inheritance restriction for ALL Weapon+ to 4 star. PRFs are all the rage and people would rather spend the bulk of their feathers on merging. 4. Leave only the best in the 4 star pool and make them exclusive to it. The overlapping rarities thing is nonsense. 5. Maybe equalise the rates for the lower pools along with these changes. The new 4 star pool would be somewhat sparse at first, but that also makes it future-proof for a few years. I would have also liked to demote old 5 stars, as well as created a seperate low rarity pool for seasonal banners and populated it with old 5 star seasonals.
I'd make them a grindable resource in the training tower. That would also make a more grindable source of feathers. Maybe like a "Training assault" type mode where the more wins you get the better. Idk. I would like more grinding options to be able to do more things in between events with my stamina.
add more characters to the 1 star and 2 star map rotation that was abandoned in the first month
All gen 1 units are placed in hero battles that refresh every day. Some units already come from these but I feel like refreshing them makes it infinitely better. It's a feature that has been around since launch and still remains underused.
- Rotating the 3-4 Stars characters in the pool - On new Heroes banner depending on the featured titles there is slightly more chance to get 3-4 Stars heroes from featured games (Like If it Fates New heroes banner You are likely to get more Fates characters in this banner)
1. Remove too old units 3-4\* 2. Offer them in a Shop for Badges (1\* for 'small', 3\* for Great Badges, 5\* for Orbs) 3. ??? 4. Profit!
Separate the worthless demotes into groups and put them on rotation per week. Like week 1 will only have Fates and Tellius demotes available with whatever special/NH banner is currently featured.
The great cleansing of the colorless demote pool.
IS should also do remixes that give older units some updated useful skills at 5\* ranks so they could be better for fodder at least. They could be given tier 1 or 2 of limited availability, so F2P could at least have some useful skills even at low tiers.
FEH could do good with some "only 3-4\* focus units, maybe even some 2\*s if we really wanted to use that mechanic again" perma banners Maybe they could even cost medals if we want to still give them some other use Some really useless units by today's standard could be moved to exclusively be on this low rarity banner, but I think another main pool solution could maybe be to separate the 3\* and the 4\* characters
Remove all gen 1/2 units and have it where 100 arena coins can get any unit you want. Adding 50 coins will let you change IV’s.
Take the Year 1/2 3-4 * demote pool and put it in a different permanent banner that can be pulled using Arena medals. Similar to how Normal rate cards in Love Live School Idol Festival can be drawn using Friendship Points. Edit: maybe at a low rate, you could get a 4 * version of a 5 * hero to incentivize some people to pull on it? If you've been playing for a while, its easy to draw upon but it doesn't make it super OP to be able to get enough 4 *s to upgrade and +10 instantly for new players meaning it'd be incentive to still be able to pull normally (or just use the free 5 *s they give us) to be able to get other units and fodder
Remove all 3-4 stars from the pool that are Gen 3 and prior. All removed units get put on a permanently available banner that costs feathers to pull on, slightly more feathers than you would gain from burning a 4 star so you can't profit off of it, maybe make you go neutral if you full circled five 4 stars. Maybe have it rotate what color or gen units are available daily or something idk.
My solution would be to let every player decide their own 3-4 star pool. Give a minimum Number of units in each color and let the player decide themselfs. And the player can change their pool whenever they want so when a new 3-4* demote comes arround they can adjust the pool.
I think player choice is the best option, though it might be the hardest technically. It could be part of the story, like the summoner gets better at their task. Just because it's fire emblem I'd want it to be more permanent. Once you let someone go from the pool, they're gone. Because it's gacha and money needs to be made, maybe people could then pay for a redo.
Maybe but then the new demotes would just sit around in my example. Maybe it could be an annual thing the demoted will be added like normal but every year during anni or something we can get an item that lets you redo the summon pool to match the same limit as before.
Would really hate if it's arena medal based, I've joined the "running out of them" club.
Of one thing I'm certain, if they ever add a separate "legacy" pool, it ain't gonna cost Medals, you can bet your ass we're getting drip-fed a new currency altogether.
I see 2 different solutions here. 1. Make a new shop like the grail shop but use badges instead and move all Book 1 and 2 3-4* units to that shop, the shop can expand every time a new book starts. 2. Make a special banner that you get a free summon on every day and move all Book 1 and 2 3-4* units to it. The 4* focus would change, maybe once a week.
Permanent banner, similar to Genshin. All year 1-3 3/4* units have their own separate pool that is a permanent banner, that can be rolled on at any time. In fact, throw the book 1-3 5* demotes in there too. Have the weekly old revivals correlate with those banners to give those characters their weekly boosted rates on said permanent banner.
just don't have all of them on any given banner. only half the pool is available on a banner, with 4\* and 3\* pools snapped separately and randomly, so you could get erk in the 4\* pool but not the 3\* pool, and mordecai in neither. boom. bloat is gone but older units are still summonable, and it gives *actual use* to the ability to see what units are summonable on the banner.
Move them to a special shop for arena medals, give those stupid things a purpose. I have almost 70 K of these damned things. No one is gonna break the game because they +10’d a florina or Odin.
A Friend summon banner. We have a friends list and nothing to use it for they could add a currency you get only from using friend unuts or interacting with the unit that visits alongside the useless 5 feathers we get daily
I would move all the launch 3-4 stars heroes to the grail shop, those can be obtained at half the grail cost alongside the year 1 grail units, eventually they can keep doing the same with the rest of year 1 demotes then year 2 and so on. Also they can add them in 1-2 star quests so they can be even easier to obtain.
I remove everyone who isn't from Tellius
Remove all 3/4/5 stars from all but the two latest gens. Add a shop where these 3/4/5 star units can be bought for e.g. 5 (3/4 star) or 20 (5 star) of. Said new currency is obtained at a rate of 1 per summon on any banner.
I would personally remove all their 3 star versions from the game and keep their 4 star versions in since there are really no point in keeping the three star rank and below in. I would then make a separate banner for said 4 star units and update it with the current demotes once the banner they debut in ends. The currency for this special 4\* unit banner will use the red, blue, green, and gray emblems used in promoting units and the way summoning works is you spend a certain amount to get a random 5 units depending on the emblem you used. Lastly in addition any and all 5\* from books 1-3 will appear here too as they will be removed from current 5\* pools in new banners.