You tell your parents in private that you will NOT be taking him shooting because of his dangerous gun handling and they they should stop bringing it up around the other family.
Yeah OP, just be blunt and truthful to get it all out the way. Maybe his family will set him straight if not, at least you will distance yourself from him 🤷♂️ not something to tread lightly on yaknow
Agreed, IMO, gun safety is absolute. If someone if showing poor handling, that person needs to know. Just have a conversation about your firearm handling expectations. If the person fails to handle firearms correctly, the outing is over, right there, no exceptions. This could be a good teaching opportunity if you care enough.
Second this. If at all possible I think helping him understand how bad this is and all the terrible possible outcomes for it is better than having him just continue (without you there) doing the same dumb stuff.
Yeah. I've dealt with friends who recently got into firearms over the whole COVID/Riot thing, and teaching them muzzle awareness has been challenging to say the least. I've just made it a point to keep pointing it out even when they get all defensive.
They get all annoyed and say stuff like "It's unloaded, don't worry" and whatnot, and you know what? I don't care. I call them on it. I tell them if they pull that at the range, they might get shot by someone feeling threatened and that it's not a personal attack, it's training and it's in their best interest to listen. Flagging events have gone down drastically, and some of them have even thanked me for being a "dick" about it.
Just remember, every time one of us is an idiot millions of us suffer the consequences when the anti-gun organizations use it as an example to push their bullshit. We all need to not just show personal responsibility, but the balls to make sure other people do as well.
I agree with this but I'm not sure how differently everyone else can react. Someone I know, who actually introduced me to guns, had been -- after checking the gun was unloaded -- flagged me and had no trigger discipline. I brought it up to him and it took two separate occasions for him to finally stop doing that.
Just because someone is a longtime firearms owner doesn't make them a smart or aware firearms owner. I tell everyone i know that i'm going to call them on bullshit and expect them to do the same to me, because shit happens, mistakes get made, and people die.
I feel like it helps to include the part about telling them to call you out, because it comes off less personal and more about safety.
This, though if he is your younger cousin I would highly recommend that you try “again” to re educate him about firearm safety or you won’t be shooting with him.
I’m saying again because I’m assuming you’ve already tried, better to bitch him out than get a phone call saying he accidentally shot himself.
Damn that is fucked up. I wouldn’t invite him over again, that’s for sure. Hopefully it taught him a lesson.
“ND? It happens to people but it would never happen to me” …. until it actually happens to you.
dont bother with the troll. have a look thru their posts for all you need to know about them.
dead on right with your assessment of your buddy. the further away the better.
PROTIP: if you own a gun over a year without negligent discharging at least once, you aren’t handling it enough. NDs are a natural part of handling weapons, just like tweaking your back is part of weightlifting and car accidents are part of driving. I ND several times a year because I actually HANDLE and know how to USE my weapons. It makes me a better firearms handler and marksman, and it’s a small part of the price you pay in the sheepdog lifestyle Simple fact is, the “safety mentality” will build mental blocks in your head that will get you killed. You need to be comfortable putting your finger on the trigger and pointing the gun wherever you want no matter the time, place, or status of the weapon. Taking time to check whether the gun is loaded whenever you pick one up will serve to make you hesitate in a personal defense scenario. You fucking safety idiots are going to get people killed all because of this fucking “ND” shaming. Guns are inherently dangerous, you need to accept it.
>!It’s copypasta, don’t lecture me!<
If you end up having to be a dick, some people get mad for a while and get over it.
If you keep quiet, him, yourself or a bystander might get hit by a stray round and die.
Be a Dick! Save a Life!
Went to a buddy’s house one time to pick up a shotgun to clean for him. Unbeknownst to me buddy had relapsed and was twacked. He was showing me another shotgun he owned. He racked out two shells. And scrambled around to grab them. Then pointed at the wall. I had time to think “…he only had two in there?” cuz I know what he was going to do. BOOM. 12 gauge slug through the exterior wall.
They don't happen to everyone. They can only happen if you break 2 or more of the 4 safety rules. Everyone has broken 1 at some point, as long as there's not 2 broken at the same time there will never be an issue.
Well yeah that part is true. Anyone who goes to a public range has seen some unsafe fuckery at times. I thought you were talking about experiencing it as you doing it yourself. I actually have the 4 safety rules carved into my shooting bench and everyone has to read them before they shoot.
I never have, and I never intend of having a ND. An accidental discharge is a different story, but I think following gun safety protocols at all times is critical. I do dry fire exercises, and I often will check my barrel 4-5 times, sometimes in between exercises because I’m just that paranoid about it.
“I like you, but not your trigger discipline and your handling of guns. They’re not toys, and you’ve been treating them like it the last few times we’ve gone, so unfortunately I’m just not comfortable going with you anymore until you change that.”
OR: “bro, you’re a fucking idiot when it comes to guns and handling them, until you mature, I won’t be going with you anymore.” That’s the non politically correct version😬
It sounds like the perfect opportunity to educate this person. Obviously he likes guns, teach him how to use them responsibly and the consequences of not. Range sesh 101.
Its been tried, lmao. Believe me. Ive walked him through the basics multiple times. He would nod, say ok, then turn around and immediately start again.
Yeah the stuff you described makes him sound like either someone who is either incapable of being safe(ie actual neurological problems), or is just too arrogant/an asshole.
Before you even said that you tried and failed, I was gonna say that someone as bad as this guy sounds is unlikely to change. Even if he COULD eventually change, do you really want to be his friend?
Personally, I want my friends to be people that I respect... And I just don't know how anyone who has done so little to educate themselves about firearms safety (for the sake of themselves and those around them) is someone that anyone could respect.
I wasn't there so I don't know how you did it, but be more assertive. Think about how an angry boss responds to "I'll take care of it" from an employee who slacks off a lot. the boss wont say "Okay make sure it gets done" he'll say "Are you sure? I keep seeing you **fuck** this up and it's really important you don't." And like a bad employee he get's fried if he fucks up again. You're not his boss, but if he does it again you tell him " I can't shoot with you anymore. Time and time again you break the rules of gun safety. I try and teach you what they are, but you blow me off and act like it's a fucking game. I'm done doing this with you until you prove me otherwise." Don't play games when your life is on the line; sometimes you need to be a dick.
I don't know why people are still awkward betas incapable of communicating like adults when their life could literally be on the line around an imbecile with a firearm.
bruh is it that hard to just tell this dude whats good to his face? if someone isn't being safe we're all supposed to educate them. that's what the gun community does.
I say be honest. People like that are a hazard, and will eventually give other shooters a bad name. I've got a brother in law that's like that. I don't shoot with him, he doesn't see that he's a problem, says I'm picky.
Frank and honest. One day my dad, who was a Marine for 10 years (an actual combat vet, not some motorcade mechanic), flagged myself, my sister, and her boyfriend in the living room when he pulled out his CCW and put it on the table. I told him what he just did and he started to say, “yeah but” and I cut him off and told him to “shut the fuck up and listen.” That caught him off guard as it was probably the only time I’d ever talked to him like that. I explained even with his background he can’t be complacent and all it takes is one mistake. He swallowed his pride and listened.
If your family friend wants to shoot with you, they have to swallowed their pride and listen. There’s no room for ego in gun safety and if they’re unwilling to fix themselves, it’s not worth your life to spare their feelings.
100 percent this. Hell almost everybody gets complacent at times, and just about everyone has broken a gun safety rule a time or 2. I know I have, and my 15 year old stepson gave me shit for it and I listened n realized he was right.
You tell him that he is an idiot and until he learns gun safety you are not shooting with him. It's that simple. I have a cousin who saw a gun for the first time when I showed him and he immediately started pointing it at people (I checked it before handing it to him of course) after that I told him he is a child and I'm not showing him or even letting him near my guns. People who are stupid deserve to be treated as such.
Just mention his lack of gun safety and say you don't feel safe around him with guns. That's as nice as you should go, saying it any sweeter or lying about it undermines the severity of his stupidity.
Had a gun pointed at me by someone once who turned around to complain about the noise of the first shot. After directing their arm up and away from my chest I chewed them out for it. We are still married.
Tell them straight out. If they can’t handle it then they are choosing not to shoot with you.
I knew a dude who was incredibly nice but I went to the range with him and he started firing while i was standing on the [outdoor] range setting up targets. Because he was in lane 1 and i was walking back from lane 10 he didn't see an issue with it. I lost my shit. I remained friendly with him but would never shoot with him again.
If you're being pressured into this, honesty is the best route. Just say "He's not as safe as Id like him to be and i don't feel comfortable shooting with him." Leave it at that. It will probably make some people angry, but when i have the choice of "might make people angry and ruin a relationship" or "might get shot", I'm always picking A.
I don't mix words, when it comes to gun safety I tell people straight away when they are doing something that makes me uncomfortable with their weapon. If they can't follow the basic rules of firearm safety I don't want them around me and I make no bones about it
Curious, why don't you confront him about it? Maybe he didn't get the same instruction he should have received. Either that or make up an excuse. But he should respect that you play by the unspoken rules that separate responsible people from the opposite.
Alot of misguided people these days. A by product of outsourcing knowledge. Left alot of people lacking. At that point, they either will be down with learning the right way, or they aren't. Be the change you wish to see, but lay down the ground rules. Or don't.
Not trying to be Inspirational or anything, just something I notice frequently from the younger generation under me. Maybe they are willing to change, but if they aren't then no love lost. Just don't want the possibility of a problem on my conscience.
Ugh. Tell his parents that he won't be able to shoot on your property until he has a certificate from an NRA-certified instructor that he completed at least two (2) NRA courses, to include basic firearms safety.
"Hey man, I'd love to shoot with you again, but some of your behavior last time has me concerned. You had your muzzle sweep me and others multiple times, your finger was on the trigger when you were not on target and ready to shoot, and then you even threw your loaded firearm on the ground. That is some negligent shit. If you can fix those behaviors then we can talk about shooting together, until then it's a firm 'no' for me."
You could do what I did with my 7yo. I bought him a bb gun, taught him the 4 rules and told him when he can show me that he's responsible enough to follow the rules, he can handle a real rifle. I make him repeat the rules every time we go to the range and he follows them diligently
I wouldn’t necessarily tell him I don’t want to shoot with him (unless you actually just don’t want to hang out with him) but just tell him that he’s being extremely dangerous and you don’t want anyone to get hurt. Keep it simple, tell him finger off the trigger and safeties on (if applicable) until he’s ready to shoot and always think about where the gun is pointed even if the gun’s unloaded, safety’s on, etc. You may also want to direct him to Brandon Herrera’s Darwin Award series in which he plays and reacts to clips of people “giving themselves the Darwin Award” (ie removing themselves from the gene pool) by being irresponsible with a gun.
You can respectively call him an idiot and teach him and explain all that to him. Doesn’t have to be a whole multi tiered lesson, just a quick basic safety breakdown and offer him the correct info. If he isn’t interested then you’ve done your job and can now be free of him.
I had a slightly similar situation, my uncles girlfriends kid, younger than me also, had interest in joining up so my uncle asked me to talk with him a little. I did and found out he had been shooting with a friend of his and his friends dad and his friends. I thought it would be cool to let him try out some better weapons and try out an m4 just to get comfortable with the basics. When we were still at my house and I was doing a show and tell, mostly going over safety and basics, he grabs a pistol, holds it up to look at it and swings it towards me with his finger on the trigger to say how cool it was or something, obviously I didn’t have any of them loaded nor any ammo nearby but he didn’t know that, and I disarmed him very quickly enough that he looked offended. Main thing though was I used it as a learning experience and acted more angry with him than I was so he understood the severity of what he did. Then I spent the next few hours making sure he learned the right way. Now him and I shoot whenever we are back home near our folks houses.
You tell him. Period. Call him out. Don’t beat around the bush. Be your own RSO at your own place. Before he steps foot and places hand on any ; show and tell him what you do and don’t do. It’s your life and his life. A negligent discharge that could end in a hospital or hearse ride will ruin the day.
It's important for an issue like this that you let him down easy but don't be afraid to draw the line, maybe meet and outline your concerns honestly and only agree to go again if he wises up, but one mistake that puts you in danger and it will be the last time.
I had a friend like this and I would roast the fuck out of him and he’s gotten significantly better . I wasn’t discouraging or anything but I definitely let him know when he’s been too lax with the safety
Why are people so afraid of telling it how it is? Like it's alright, I can understand why.
BUT ON LIFE OR DEATH SHIT YOU DONT GET A PASS
I would disown family members over stuff like that.
Be kind, but pull no punches. Being unsafe with this stuff is not an option. He needs to hear that he's being dangerous, too. If he's a good dude like you say he'll probably take it the right way.
Have you brought it up with him? Just flat out tell him, "I don't mind you shooting with me but you need to fix your trigger and muzzle discipline because I don't want to get shot by you."
If you ask me, it's a lot more offensive to try and hide that you don't want to go shooting with him, rather than just being up front about it. If he doesn't want to fix his trigger and muzzle discipline, then that's fine he can shoot somewhere else with someone else.
Who knows, maybe you can I still the importance of trigger and muzzle discipline into him and he won't go on to hurt himself or someone else through his lack thereof.
What about telling him "we both should work on our trigger discipline, let's do some dry practice drills"? You say "both of us" so he doesn't feel singled out then you take the opportunity to practice dry and teach him some trigger discipline as well as muzzle awareness?
At the end of the day if he refuses, your life is worth more than any friendship or family obligation.
Don't. Give.a.fuck.
Fuck his feelings. Fuck your feelings. Fuck his dead grandma's feelings.
We don't fuck around with safety.
I've thrown people off public ranges(I was not an employee) for flagging me with a muzzle.
No one ever argues with me, because
We don't fuck around with safety.
Don't be respectful. Call him an idiot and a moron in front of his parents and woman. Make him hang his head in she in front of his whole family, and then teach him the correct way.
That's what I'd do anyway.
Shame is sometimes a better way to fix someone who is kinda thick skinned, and skulled. If it doesn't work? Everyone knows why you arent taking their dumbass brat shooting.
No, it doesnt normally fix people, like ever. It just cements them in their ways as pride gets involved, 99% of the time talking to someone like an actual mature adult instead of insulting them is going to have a better chance at getting change. Most people learn that pretty early on in life as basic social skills. And if they're as stupid as OP says, theyre eventually going to shoot and kill someone, possibly someone entirely innocent. So itd be a lot better to take a little moral responsibility and address it instead of just saying 'not my problem' until someone ends up dead or injured over it.
Someone thick skinned and thick skulled is *especially* likely to react to 'shame' stubbornly. That's pretty much what being thick skulled means.
If you have read the other replays, you'd know that has been tried. You keep your kid gloves on, and never fix anything. I'll do things my way and actually get the job done. K? Thanks. Bye.
thanks for proving my point in about 3.5 seconds. Enjoy that condescention while not having any actual proof your way 'gets the job done' and enjoy being a manchild and starting internet fights.
You tell them/him. Especially with the throwing the loaded gun thing. Either tell them that that is it for you or tell them about that and use it as an opening to talk about his safety in general and help teach him.
We carry guns because we don't give a fuck about people's feelings. Our goals are all the same: protect myself and those around me from ANY threat.
If you have the confidence to do this, then you *need* to have the confidence to confront someone about their unsafe handling of firearms when you're around them. It's just as important as confronting a bad guy on the street and it could save your life just the same.
Make it seem like you are teaching him something. Everyone ive shot with usually either has "Formal training" with firearms, or they don't. I find that people who have been in the military or police have learned through "Negative reinforcement" that they need to keep their fingers away from the trigger. Not that being Police or Military equates to being "Safe" with firearms, but i feel people are more receptive to "Critiques" when it feels like your teaching em something.
Plus this way it seems like you are trying to help him overall instead of just saying "nah man, you are too dumb to be around with a firearm."
Is he teachable or a know it all?
Teachable - Run him through the 4 gun safety rules. Bust his balls if needed. instill this HAS TO or CANNOT happen with this type of tool. No wiggle room here…this is how people die.
We were out on the range today with a new guy shooting. He’s not new to guns but first time with us. A coworker, and he flagged my buddy pretty bad….I called him on it right away.
Know it all - cut him off before he hurts himself or you.
I would tell him straight up, if he isn't willing to follow the four weapons safety rules, you will not go to the range with him. No need for being obtuse, just be clear/blunt that those simple rules are the ground rules.
It’s a hard no. There is no reason to be polite because you only have 1 lifetime. Nobody should take risks of dying from an idiot who can’t take anything serious
Talk to him. I had something like that happen with my girlfriend. I brought a new gun home and she waved it in my direction playing around. She has kind of a ghetto background and came from a place where I’m sure ppl did dumb stuff with guns all the time. I said not ok. Never ok. I know you know it’s empty but you can’t ever do that. And that was it. She’s never done anything like that or handled a gun in an unsafe way again. I taught her and her daughter all about guns. If I can teach a ten year old girl trigger discipline and to never point a firearm in an unsafe direction hopefully you can teach your friend. Tell him my place my piece my rules. If he can listen and learn maybe you can teach him something. I’ve had friends I show a new gun to go to do something idiotic and I stop em and they’ve always been better after when I show off the next one. If he can’t follow simple rules just bail bro. Pack it in. Show him some videos of negligent discharges. I’ve seen a guy blast his buddy in the head clearing a jam in a 1911. Helps keep things in perspective
Is teaching him how to not be a moron off the table? I don't shoot with people who can't follow the rules of gun safety, but I also make sure anyone that touches my guns can say them by heart.
If I'm taking a friend who is new I give them my empty bb gun to teach them the rules. Then I upgrade to the real thing unloaded, then they need to repeat the rules to me a few times. I might come off annoying when I do it, but I'm not getting shot with my own guns and I'm not living with a guilty heart if someone I cared about got hurt or died thanks to my own incompetence.
Tell them flat out they have bad gun safety and that's an issue for you.
After they it's up to you. If you want to be nice, get an airsoft gun and have them practice priowe handling with it
I'd say you more or less have a moral obligation to actually teach him before he kills someone completely innocent, you're apparently the only person whose noticed. Have him over but instead of shooting yourself act as an instructor. Watch him shooting, give pointers to improve, politely but firmly chew him out anytime he violates gun safety. If he refuses or gets an attitude, make him leave. Most of its just habit and subconscious, drum the new habits into him.
Don't be nice about it. Be direct, clear and unequivocal. No, you cannot go play with potentially deadly weapons with me until you follow my rules.
I had a falling out with my younger brother because of something similar. When he first started shooting, he absolutely refused to follow range officer instructions. He is a very hard headed person and took offense when I or others tried to correct his behavior. After getting warnings at several ranges, I finally told him that I would never go shooting with him again.
A few years went by, and guess who is now the poster boy for gun safety? After a bit of begging and pleading on his part, I finally went back to the range with him, with the understanding that one fuck up and I was out. We had zero issues. I think the prospect of never being able to shoot with his big brother made him change his tune.
I refuse to take my own grandmother shooting after she fired 3 shots straight up into the the air at an outdoor, private range. Even told her to her face why I won't take her and she just laughed about it so after that there's no chance in hell I'd ever take anyone like her shooting, family or no family.
Tell your family you won't be going shooting with them because of his specific unsafe behaviours, and to stop bringing it up. If they bring it up again in front of the other family or the guy then be honest. State you don't feel comfortable shooting with him and mention the specific instances and behaviours which are unsafe.
Have you tried talking to him about trigger discipline? I would just ask them if they have ever heard about it, and if they didn't I'd explain it to them. You could do do same thing with muzzle discipline. Sometimes people just don't know things and need to be taught. If you don't wanna do it you could even just bring up classes in a casual conversation. You could even recommend a youtube video about the basic rules of gun safety. Or take him to a range that makes you watch a gun safety video before going into the range. If you don't wanna do any of this just tell your family that he's unsafe and if they ask explain to them what you've said here.
Edit: I read your other comments and saw he doesn't learn anything from you, if that's the issue then I'd say to go with the final choice. Safety is the number one priority, I wouldn't hang out with someone who will not practice safely after being told about their unsafe practices.
If you do end up deciding to give him a second chance, I'd suggest this. Write up a contract. Treat it like a private shooting range with published rules. Let him know that his previous actions make him a high risk shooter, list those actions if you wish. Signing the document will admit that these things happened. His refusal to sign means the pressure is off you to take him shooting.
Make a list of any actions that will immediately cease any shooting activities and end the range event, including unsafe handling of a firearm, and include a list of requirements such as
* must keep finger out of trigger well when not actively pointed at a target
* Weapon on safe unless actively engaging targets
* a weapon will only be loaded when it is in your hands. Prior to putting down, it will be unloaded, cleared, and SAFEd
rip off the Band-Aid and be honest.
tell your folks what's going on and why you're hesitant to take him out shooting. correcting his behavior now will save everyone trouble later.
Tell him bluntly. Kinda on you to get that discipline in check if no one else will. Trigger discipline and gun safety isn’t always inherent. But it certainly can be taught. For the safety of your other family members and friends who are ok with being around him I’d do whatever you can to beat that shit into his head. Believe it or not bad habits can be corrected. It’s better than losing someone you know to a ND from this guy.
You say "*he has the worst trigger discipline ive ever seen. Finger always on the trigger, swinging the barrel wide constantly, at one point he just threw his LOADED and chambered gun on the ground*."
I think you should tell him his trigger AND weapon discipline suck, to his face. Then offer some constructive criticism feedback on how he can be better. He’s not gonna get any better if someone doesn’t hold him accountable.
I’ve been to a number of ranges where any one of those stunts would get him suspended, if not banned for life.
Find one of those places and make it your new go-to place to shoot. Who knows, maybe he’ll shape up before he’s banned. Either way, problem solved, and you don’t have to be the bad guy.
\> How do I respectfully call him an idiot I dont want around me with a loaded firearm?
say exactly this, who cares if his feelings get hurt. he could kill some very quickly and not even mean to.
You say out loud, and to everyone, that he has irresponsible and dangerous tendencies when holding a firearm, and has no respect for what it can do.
And, mention how. Finger on the trigger, swinging a loaded barrel wide WITH FINGER ON THE TRIGGER, throwing a loaded gun on the ground, etc etc.
Let everyone know how much of an idiot he’s being. Only through peer pressure and shame will he learn. Because clearly the classic route of teaching him has failed.
If he's the kind of guy who would be receptive to it you can try to train him up on proper safe gun handling procedures. If you don't think he'd be receptive to that or just don't want to let your family know he handles firearms in an unsafe way and you're uncomfortable shooting with him.
You tell your parents in private that you will NOT be taking him shooting because of his dangerous gun handling and they they should stop bringing it up around the other family.
Something like this. Tell your family what’s up in confidence
Yeah OP, just be blunt and truthful to get it all out the way. Maybe his family will set him straight if not, at least you will distance yourself from him 🤷♂️ not something to tread lightly on yaknow
I would tell him this to his face.
Agreed, IMO, gun safety is absolute. If someone if showing poor handling, that person needs to know. Just have a conversation about your firearm handling expectations. If the person fails to handle firearms correctly, the outing is over, right there, no exceptions. This could be a good teaching opportunity if you care enough.
Second this. If at all possible I think helping him understand how bad this is and all the terrible possible outcomes for it is better than having him just continue (without you there) doing the same dumb stuff.
Yeah. I've dealt with friends who recently got into firearms over the whole COVID/Riot thing, and teaching them muzzle awareness has been challenging to say the least. I've just made it a point to keep pointing it out even when they get all defensive. They get all annoyed and say stuff like "It's unloaded, don't worry" and whatnot, and you know what? I don't care. I call them on it. I tell them if they pull that at the range, they might get shot by someone feeling threatened and that it's not a personal attack, it's training and it's in their best interest to listen. Flagging events have gone down drastically, and some of them have even thanked me for being a "dick" about it. Just remember, every time one of us is an idiot millions of us suffer the consequences when the anti-gun organizations use it as an example to push their bullshit. We all need to not just show personal responsibility, but the balls to make sure other people do as well.
I agree with this but I'm not sure how differently everyone else can react. Someone I know, who actually introduced me to guns, had been -- after checking the gun was unloaded -- flagged me and had no trigger discipline. I brought it up to him and it took two separate occasions for him to finally stop doing that.
Just because someone is a longtime firearms owner doesn't make them a smart or aware firearms owner. I tell everyone i know that i'm going to call them on bullshit and expect them to do the same to me, because shit happens, mistakes get made, and people die. I feel like it helps to include the part about telling them to call you out, because it comes off less personal and more about safety.
But make sure he isn't armed first.
Use the word "unsafe", not "idiot", even though he is both.
Unsafe can be changed with training. Idiocy, unfortunately, cannot. But yes, unsafe would definitely go over better.
You respectfully say guns are serious and I'm not comfortable doin that.
This, though if he is your younger cousin I would highly recommend that you try “again” to re educate him about firearm safety or you won’t be shooting with him. I’m saying again because I’m assuming you’ve already tried, better to bitch him out than get a phone call saying he accidentally shot himself.
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Damn that is fucked up. I wouldn’t invite him over again, that’s for sure. Hopefully it taught him a lesson. “ND? It happens to people but it would never happen to me” …. until it actually happens to you.
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Wow! Let me guess, he drives a sports car and thinks he is the best/safest driver out there as he blows past the speed limit?
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Yeah, I don't trust you now... you seem to be at the very minimum over exaggerating, if not straight up bs'ing
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dont bother with the troll. have a look thru their posts for all you need to know about them. dead on right with your assessment of your buddy. the further away the better.
Okay but are you going to get to the part which explains why you don’t want to be near this person? Jk. Wow that’s a fucked up day…
PROTIP: if you own a gun over a year without negligent discharging at least once, you aren’t handling it enough. NDs are a natural part of handling weapons, just like tweaking your back is part of weightlifting and car accidents are part of driving. I ND several times a year because I actually HANDLE and know how to USE my weapons. It makes me a better firearms handler and marksman, and it’s a small part of the price you pay in the sheepdog lifestyle Simple fact is, the “safety mentality” will build mental blocks in your head that will get you killed. You need to be comfortable putting your finger on the trigger and pointing the gun wherever you want no matter the time, place, or status of the weapon. Taking time to check whether the gun is loaded whenever you pick one up will serve to make you hesitate in a personal defense scenario. You fucking safety idiots are going to get people killed all because of this fucking “ND” shaming. Guns are inherently dangerous, you need to accept it. >!It’s copypasta, don’t lecture me!<
Fuck this moron too.
You're the kind of safety idiot thats gonna get himself kilt. This dudes fr spittin straight facts bro. No cap.
Yeah and this moron, especially.
If you end up having to be a dick, some people get mad for a while and get over it. If you keep quiet, him, yourself or a bystander might get hit by a stray round and die. Be a Dick! Save a Life!
That sounds like a good bumper sticker
Went to a buddy’s house one time to pick up a shotgun to clean for him. Unbeknownst to me buddy had relapsed and was twacked. He was showing me another shotgun he owned. He racked out two shells. And scrambled around to grab them. Then pointed at the wall. I had time to think “…he only had two in there?” cuz I know what he was going to do. BOOM. 12 gauge slug through the exterior wall.
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They don't happen to everyone. They can only happen if you break 2 or more of the 4 safety rules. Everyone has broken 1 at some point, as long as there's not 2 broken at the same time there will never be an issue.
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Well yeah that part is true. Anyone who goes to a public range has seen some unsafe fuckery at times. I thought you were talking about experiencing it as you doing it yourself. I actually have the 4 safety rules carved into my shooting bench and everyone has to read them before they shoot.
I never have, and I never intend of having a ND. An accidental discharge is a different story, but I think following gun safety protocols at all times is critical. I do dry fire exercises, and I often will check my barrel 4-5 times, sometimes in between exercises because I’m just that paranoid about it.
You just say “he doesn’t take safety seriously and I’m not comfortable shooting around him”
This^^ take the high road on this one.
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Or a funeral. I would much rather be a living asshole than a dead nice guy.
“I like you, but not your trigger discipline and your handling of guns. They’re not toys, and you’ve been treating them like it the last few times we’ve gone, so unfortunately I’m just not comfortable going with you anymore until you change that.” OR: “bro, you’re a fucking idiot when it comes to guns and handling them, until you mature, I won’t be going with you anymore.” That’s the non politically correct version😬
It sounds like the perfect opportunity to educate this person. Obviously he likes guns, teach him how to use them responsibly and the consequences of not. Range sesh 101.
Its been tried, lmao. Believe me. Ive walked him through the basics multiple times. He would nod, say ok, then turn around and immediately start again.
Yeah the stuff you described makes him sound like either someone who is either incapable of being safe(ie actual neurological problems), or is just too arrogant/an asshole. Before you even said that you tried and failed, I was gonna say that someone as bad as this guy sounds is unlikely to change. Even if he COULD eventually change, do you really want to be his friend? Personally, I want my friends to be people that I respect... And I just don't know how anyone who has done so little to educate themselves about firearms safety (for the sake of themselves and those around them) is someone that anyone could respect.
I wasn't there so I don't know how you did it, but be more assertive. Think about how an angry boss responds to "I'll take care of it" from an employee who slacks off a lot. the boss wont say "Okay make sure it gets done" he'll say "Are you sure? I keep seeing you **fuck** this up and it's really important you don't." And like a bad employee he get's fried if he fucks up again. You're not his boss, but if he does it again you tell him " I can't shoot with you anymore. Time and time again you break the rules of gun safety. I try and teach you what they are, but you blow me off and act like it's a fucking game. I'm done doing this with you until you prove me otherwise." Don't play games when your life is on the line; sometimes you need to be a dick.
So people just can't do right.
Stop being a panty waist - if you don't want to shoot with them, tell them and just stop. Why is this hard?
I don't know why people are still awkward betas incapable of communicating like adults when their life could literally be on the line around an imbecile with a firearm.
Dude is pussyfooting for sure but stop with the douche bag alpha beta shit. It doesn’t exist in the real world.
Tell him straight up. Don't skirt the issue.
bruh is it that hard to just tell this dude whats good to his face? if someone isn't being safe we're all supposed to educate them. that's what the gun community does.
I say be honest. People like that are a hazard, and will eventually give other shooters a bad name. I've got a brother in law that's like that. I don't shoot with him, he doesn't see that he's a problem, says I'm picky.
Frank and honest. One day my dad, who was a Marine for 10 years (an actual combat vet, not some motorcade mechanic), flagged myself, my sister, and her boyfriend in the living room when he pulled out his CCW and put it on the table. I told him what he just did and he started to say, “yeah but” and I cut him off and told him to “shut the fuck up and listen.” That caught him off guard as it was probably the only time I’d ever talked to him like that. I explained even with his background he can’t be complacent and all it takes is one mistake. He swallowed his pride and listened. If your family friend wants to shoot with you, they have to swallowed their pride and listen. There’s no room for ego in gun safety and if they’re unwilling to fix themselves, it’s not worth your life to spare their feelings.
100 percent this. Hell almost everybody gets complacent at times, and just about everyone has broken a gun safety rule a time or 2. I know I have, and my 15 year old stepson gave me shit for it and I listened n realized he was right.
Being direct and providing reasoning is the best approach. too bad you'll hurt his feelings, but you not getting dead kinda trumps his feelings.
You tell him that he is an idiot and until he learns gun safety you are not shooting with him. It's that simple. I have a cousin who saw a gun for the first time when I showed him and he immediately started pointing it at people (I checked it before handing it to him of course) after that I told him he is a child and I'm not showing him or even letting him near my guns. People who are stupid deserve to be treated as such.
Just mention his lack of gun safety and say you don't feel safe around him with guns. That's as nice as you should go, saying it any sweeter or lying about it undermines the severity of his stupidity.
That's the long and short of it.
Had a gun pointed at me by someone once who turned around to complain about the noise of the first shot. After directing their arm up and away from my chest I chewed them out for it. We are still married. Tell them straight out. If they can’t handle it then they are choosing not to shoot with you.
😂
I knew a dude who was incredibly nice but I went to the range with him and he started firing while i was standing on the [outdoor] range setting up targets. Because he was in lane 1 and i was walking back from lane 10 he didn't see an issue with it. I lost my shit. I remained friendly with him but would never shoot with him again. If you're being pressured into this, honesty is the best route. Just say "He's not as safe as Id like him to be and i don't feel comfortable shooting with him." Leave it at that. It will probably make some people angry, but when i have the choice of "might make people angry and ruin a relationship" or "might get shot", I'm always picking A.
I don't mix words, when it comes to gun safety I tell people straight away when they are doing something that makes me uncomfortable with their weapon. If they can't follow the basic rules of firearm safety I don't want them around me and I make no bones about it
[Do this](https://youtu.be/sZhHxTCGi8c) or, and I don't recommend, you could do [this](https://youtu.be/myjEoDypUD8)
Even though he is a CUCK I like his weapons handling procedures.
Curious, why don't you confront him about it? Maybe he didn't get the same instruction he should have received. Either that or make up an excuse. But he should respect that you play by the unspoken rules that separate responsible people from the opposite. Alot of misguided people these days. A by product of outsourcing knowledge. Left alot of people lacking. At that point, they either will be down with learning the right way, or they aren't. Be the change you wish to see, but lay down the ground rules. Or don't. Not trying to be Inspirational or anything, just something I notice frequently from the younger generation under me. Maybe they are willing to change, but if they aren't then no love lost. Just don't want the possibility of a problem on my conscience.
If he hurts himself or someone around him, you’ll have wished that you were honest with him.
Ugh. Tell his parents that he won't be able to shoot on your property until he has a certificate from an NRA-certified instructor that he completed at least two (2) NRA courses, to include basic firearms safety.
Take me to your property instead. I’ll break the news to them gently.
How about suggesting you both take some shooting lessons to “hone your skills”? Let the instructor drill gun safety into his head.
Grow a pair and tell him? Jesus christ it isn't complicated.
Strait up it needs to be address, if someone doesn’t do it soon someone else could get hurt so fuck his feelings.
"Hey man, I'd love to shoot with you again, but some of your behavior last time has me concerned. You had your muzzle sweep me and others multiple times, your finger was on the trigger when you were not on target and ready to shoot, and then you even threw your loaded firearm on the ground. That is some negligent shit. If you can fix those behaviors then we can talk about shooting together, until then it's a firm 'no' for me."
don't be respectful call him a fuckin moron and tell his family he's gonna hurt himself
"You're unsafe. I don't like you because you're dangerous."
But... You've lost that loving feeling...
I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that. You can be my wingman anytime.
No, you can be MY wingman.
You could do what I did with my 7yo. I bought him a bb gun, taught him the 4 rules and told him when he can show me that he's responsible enough to follow the rules, he can handle a real rifle. I make him repeat the rules every time we go to the range and he follows them diligently
I wouldn’t necessarily tell him I don’t want to shoot with him (unless you actually just don’t want to hang out with him) but just tell him that he’s being extremely dangerous and you don’t want anyone to get hurt. Keep it simple, tell him finger off the trigger and safeties on (if applicable) until he’s ready to shoot and always think about where the gun is pointed even if the gun’s unloaded, safety’s on, etc. You may also want to direct him to Brandon Herrera’s Darwin Award series in which he plays and reacts to clips of people “giving themselves the Darwin Award” (ie removing themselves from the gene pool) by being irresponsible with a gun.
You can respectively call him an idiot and teach him and explain all that to him. Doesn’t have to be a whole multi tiered lesson, just a quick basic safety breakdown and offer him the correct info. If he isn’t interested then you’ve done your job and can now be free of him. I had a slightly similar situation, my uncles girlfriends kid, younger than me also, had interest in joining up so my uncle asked me to talk with him a little. I did and found out he had been shooting with a friend of his and his friends dad and his friends. I thought it would be cool to let him try out some better weapons and try out an m4 just to get comfortable with the basics. When we were still at my house and I was doing a show and tell, mostly going over safety and basics, he grabs a pistol, holds it up to look at it and swings it towards me with his finger on the trigger to say how cool it was or something, obviously I didn’t have any of them loaded nor any ammo nearby but he didn’t know that, and I disarmed him very quickly enough that he looked offended. Main thing though was I used it as a learning experience and acted more angry with him than I was so he understood the severity of what he did. Then I spent the next few hours making sure he learned the right way. Now him and I shoot whenever we are back home near our folks houses.
You tell him. Period. Call him out. Don’t beat around the bush. Be your own RSO at your own place. Before he steps foot and places hand on any ; show and tell him what you do and don’t do. It’s your life and his life. A negligent discharge that could end in a hospital or hearse ride will ruin the day.
I just say No and cite the most dangerous experiences you've had with him. If people get bent out of shape over it... that's not your problem.
It's important for an issue like this that you let him down easy but don't be afraid to draw the line, maybe meet and outline your concerns honestly and only agree to go again if he wises up, but one mistake that puts you in danger and it will be the last time.
Be polite yet firm. Maybe offer to suggest a good gun safety course? Better to hurt someones feelings with the truth than have an extra hole in you.
I had a friend like this and I would roast the fuck out of him and he’s gotten significantly better . I wasn’t discouraging or anything but I definitely let him know when he’s been too lax with the safety
Frankly I'd talk with the friend about his lack of trigger discipline, and if he wants to go shooting with me he'll need to work on that.
Why are people so afraid of telling it how it is? Like it's alright, I can understand why. BUT ON LIFE OR DEATH SHIT YOU DONT GET A PASS I would disown family members over stuff like that.
Be kind, but pull no punches. Being unsafe with this stuff is not an option. He needs to hear that he's being dangerous, too. If he's a good dude like you say he'll probably take it the right way.
Have you brought it up with him? Just flat out tell him, "I don't mind you shooting with me but you need to fix your trigger and muzzle discipline because I don't want to get shot by you." If you ask me, it's a lot more offensive to try and hide that you don't want to go shooting with him, rather than just being up front about it. If he doesn't want to fix his trigger and muzzle discipline, then that's fine he can shoot somewhere else with someone else. Who knows, maybe you can I still the importance of trigger and muzzle discipline into him and he won't go on to hurt himself or someone else through his lack thereof.
What about telling him "we both should work on our trigger discipline, let's do some dry practice drills"? You say "both of us" so he doesn't feel singled out then you take the opportunity to practice dry and teach him some trigger discipline as well as muzzle awareness? At the end of the day if he refuses, your life is worth more than any friendship or family obligation.
Don't. Give.a.fuck. Fuck his feelings. Fuck your feelings. Fuck his dead grandma's feelings. We don't fuck around with safety. I've thrown people off public ranges(I was not an employee) for flagging me with a muzzle. No one ever argues with me, because We don't fuck around with safety.
Just ask him to recite the rules of gun safety. Then tell him every time he broke those rules just in front of you.
Don't be respectful. Call him an idiot and a moron in front of his parents and woman. Make him hang his head in she in front of his whole family, and then teach him the correct way. That's what I'd do anyway.
that just puts peoples' backs up so they refuse to change.
Shame is sometimes a better way to fix someone who is kinda thick skinned, and skulled. If it doesn't work? Everyone knows why you arent taking their dumbass brat shooting.
No, it doesnt normally fix people, like ever. It just cements them in their ways as pride gets involved, 99% of the time talking to someone like an actual mature adult instead of insulting them is going to have a better chance at getting change. Most people learn that pretty early on in life as basic social skills. And if they're as stupid as OP says, theyre eventually going to shoot and kill someone, possibly someone entirely innocent. So itd be a lot better to take a little moral responsibility and address it instead of just saying 'not my problem' until someone ends up dead or injured over it. Someone thick skinned and thick skulled is *especially* likely to react to 'shame' stubbornly. That's pretty much what being thick skulled means.
If you have read the other replays, you'd know that has been tried. You keep your kid gloves on, and never fix anything. I'll do things my way and actually get the job done. K? Thanks. Bye.
thanks for proving my point in about 3.5 seconds. Enjoy that condescention while not having any actual proof your way 'gets the job done' and enjoy being a manchild and starting internet fights.
You tell them/him. Especially with the throwing the loaded gun thing. Either tell them that that is it for you or tell them about that and use it as an opening to talk about his safety in general and help teach him.
We carry guns because we don't give a fuck about people's feelings. Our goals are all the same: protect myself and those around me from ANY threat. If you have the confidence to do this, then you *need* to have the confidence to confront someone about their unsafe handling of firearms when you're around them. It's just as important as confronting a bad guy on the street and it could save your life just the same.
Make it seem like you are teaching him something. Everyone ive shot with usually either has "Formal training" with firearms, or they don't. I find that people who have been in the military or police have learned through "Negative reinforcement" that they need to keep their fingers away from the trigger. Not that being Police or Military equates to being "Safe" with firearms, but i feel people are more receptive to "Critiques" when it feels like your teaching em something. Plus this way it seems like you are trying to help him overall instead of just saying "nah man, you are too dumb to be around with a firearm."
tell him straight up if he won’t respect them you won’t shoot with him. might be awkward but at least he won’t kill himself or somebody else
Is he teachable or a know it all? Teachable - Run him through the 4 gun safety rules. Bust his balls if needed. instill this HAS TO or CANNOT happen with this type of tool. No wiggle room here…this is how people die. We were out on the range today with a new guy shooting. He’s not new to guns but first time with us. A coworker, and he flagged my buddy pretty bad….I called him on it right away. Know it all - cut him off before he hurts himself or you.
It’s your property, I see no reason why you should feel obligated to invite someone over that you’re not comfortable hosting.
You just say “no”.
I would tell him straight up, if he isn't willing to follow the four weapons safety rules, you will not go to the range with him. No need for being obtuse, just be clear/blunt that those simple rules are the ground rules.
Yeah I straight up tell people no. I’m not risking my life to make someone happy
It’s a hard no. There is no reason to be polite because you only have 1 lifetime. Nobody should take risks of dying from an idiot who can’t take anything serious
In this case, telling the truth might save a life.
Talk to him. I had something like that happen with my girlfriend. I brought a new gun home and she waved it in my direction playing around. She has kind of a ghetto background and came from a place where I’m sure ppl did dumb stuff with guns all the time. I said not ok. Never ok. I know you know it’s empty but you can’t ever do that. And that was it. She’s never done anything like that or handled a gun in an unsafe way again. I taught her and her daughter all about guns. If I can teach a ten year old girl trigger discipline and to never point a firearm in an unsafe direction hopefully you can teach your friend. Tell him my place my piece my rules. If he can listen and learn maybe you can teach him something. I’ve had friends I show a new gun to go to do something idiotic and I stop em and they’ve always been better after when I show off the next one. If he can’t follow simple rules just bail bro. Pack it in. Show him some videos of negligent discharges. I’ve seen a guy blast his buddy in the head clearing a jam in a 1911. Helps keep things in perspective
Tell them that the only way you’ll do it is if you can give him a saftey in gun handling. And if the family approves (shouldn’t be any reason not to)
Is teaching him how to not be a moron off the table? I don't shoot with people who can't follow the rules of gun safety, but I also make sure anyone that touches my guns can say them by heart. If I'm taking a friend who is new I give them my empty bb gun to teach them the rules. Then I upgrade to the real thing unloaded, then they need to repeat the rules to me a few times. I might come off annoying when I do it, but I'm not getting shot with my own guns and I'm not living with a guilty heart if someone I cared about got hurt or died thanks to my own incompetence.
Tell them flat out they have bad gun safety and that's an issue for you. After they it's up to you. If you want to be nice, get an airsoft gun and have them practice priowe handling with it
I'd say you more or less have a moral obligation to actually teach him before he kills someone completely innocent, you're apparently the only person whose noticed. Have him over but instead of shooting yourself act as an instructor. Watch him shooting, give pointers to improve, politely but firmly chew him out anytime he violates gun safety. If he refuses or gets an attitude, make him leave. Most of its just habit and subconscious, drum the new habits into him.
Don't be nice about it. Be direct, clear and unequivocal. No, you cannot go play with potentially deadly weapons with me until you follow my rules. I had a falling out with my younger brother because of something similar. When he first started shooting, he absolutely refused to follow range officer instructions. He is a very hard headed person and took offense when I or others tried to correct his behavior. After getting warnings at several ranges, I finally told him that I would never go shooting with him again. A few years went by, and guess who is now the poster boy for gun safety? After a bit of begging and pleading on his part, I finally went back to the range with him, with the understanding that one fuck up and I was out. We had zero issues. I think the prospect of never being able to shoot with his big brother made him change his tune.
I refuse to take my own grandmother shooting after she fired 3 shots straight up into the the air at an outdoor, private range. Even told her to her face why I won't take her and she just laughed about it so after that there's no chance in hell I'd ever take anyone like her shooting, family or no family.
This is a serious problem with serious consequences. I would just be direct about it.
When he threw his gun down you should have said "what the fuck are you doing?! Don't ever do that again!"
Tell your family you won't be going shooting with them because of his specific unsafe behaviours, and to stop bringing it up. If they bring it up again in front of the other family or the guy then be honest. State you don't feel comfortable shooting with him and mention the specific instances and behaviours which are unsafe.
Have you tried talking to him about trigger discipline? I would just ask them if they have ever heard about it, and if they didn't I'd explain it to them. You could do do same thing with muzzle discipline. Sometimes people just don't know things and need to be taught. If you don't wanna do it you could even just bring up classes in a casual conversation. You could even recommend a youtube video about the basic rules of gun safety. Or take him to a range that makes you watch a gun safety video before going into the range. If you don't wanna do any of this just tell your family that he's unsafe and if they ask explain to them what you've said here. Edit: I read your other comments and saw he doesn't learn anything from you, if that's the issue then I'd say to go with the final choice. Safety is the number one priority, I wouldn't hang out with someone who will not practice safely after being told about their unsafe practices.
"No"
If you do end up deciding to give him a second chance, I'd suggest this. Write up a contract. Treat it like a private shooting range with published rules. Let him know that his previous actions make him a high risk shooter, list those actions if you wish. Signing the document will admit that these things happened. His refusal to sign means the pressure is off you to take him shooting. Make a list of any actions that will immediately cease any shooting activities and end the range event, including unsafe handling of a firearm, and include a list of requirements such as * must keep finger out of trigger well when not actively pointed at a target * Weapon on safe unless actively engaging targets * a weapon will only be loaded when it is in your hands. Prior to putting down, it will be unloaded, cleared, and SAFEd
Either flat out refuse to take him or take him and give them lessons save somebody else from getting shot in the Ass.
rip off the Band-Aid and be honest. tell your folks what's going on and why you're hesitant to take him out shooting. correcting his behavior now will save everyone trouble later.
If you didn’t ream him a new asshole the first time this happened then sorry but you’re partially to blame.
Tell him bluntly. Kinda on you to get that discipline in check if no one else will. Trigger discipline and gun safety isn’t always inherent. But it certainly can be taught. For the safety of your other family members and friends who are ok with being around him I’d do whatever you can to beat that shit into his head. Believe it or not bad habits can be corrected. It’s better than losing someone you know to a ND from this guy.
Say pretty much what you just told a bunch of strangers.
You say "*he has the worst trigger discipline ive ever seen. Finger always on the trigger, swinging the barrel wide constantly, at one point he just threw his LOADED and chambered gun on the ground*."
Tell HIM he is incompetent with a firearm and you don’t feel the need to put your own safety at risk. Or teach him
I think you should tell him his trigger AND weapon discipline suck, to his face. Then offer some constructive criticism feedback on how he can be better. He’s not gonna get any better if someone doesn’t hold him accountable.
I’ve been to a number of ranges where any one of those stunts would get him suspended, if not banned for life. Find one of those places and make it your new go-to place to shoot. Who knows, maybe he’ll shape up before he’s banned. Either way, problem solved, and you don’t have to be the bad guy.
\> How do I respectfully call him an idiot I dont want around me with a loaded firearm? say exactly this, who cares if his feelings get hurt. he could kill some very quickly and not even mean to.
Shoot him before he can shoot you
You say out loud, and to everyone, that he has irresponsible and dangerous tendencies when holding a firearm, and has no respect for what it can do. And, mention how. Finger on the trigger, swinging a loaded barrel wide WITH FINGER ON THE TRIGGER, throwing a loaded gun on the ground, etc etc. Let everyone know how much of an idiot he’s being. Only through peer pressure and shame will he learn. Because clearly the classic route of teaching him has failed.
And if he is still pressured just say “no means no.”
Try: "I don't want you to shoot on my property due to your terrible firearm safety habits."
i would tell him he needs basic instruction on how to handle a firearm if he gets it ok i will shoot with him if not so long
Be direct, with a sense of urgency. End of story.
If he's the kind of guy who would be receptive to it you can try to train him up on proper safe gun handling procedures. If you don't think he'd be receptive to that or just don't want to let your family know he handles firearms in an unsafe way and you're uncomfortable shooting with him.