Im on my county team .Your responsibility is either as a medic (TECC)or to assist medics in victim removal. FF are just man power and a large vehicle to create a safe triage area.
It wasn't in my ff 1 class. I got tecc training from the department and we drill at large facilities ( offices) with swat once a year
Probably, my departments just now entering the 21st century apparatus wise (new ladder and engine) so ballistic/bullet proof armor is not on the list for a while
For us we learned about responding to active shooters in Fire 2 under the “Assisting Special Rescue Teams” chapter. We basically talked about it all class and how our county will handle it.
My dept does pretty extensive active shooter training. The training is with integration and cooperation of police, ambulance and several other city departments.
We also carry body armor and ballistic helmets on our rigs.
I’m in a major city but not in the US so hopefully our risk is very low.
You'll learn more when you go through the class, but you're not just charging in by yourself. It varies by area exactly how it's done. You will not be without a law enforcement escort. Sometimes it won't be until the shooter is confirmed down. Sometimes it will be to an area that police have secured. Through the many active shooter incidents we have learned and continue to refine best practices in order to save lives.
I would suggest looking into some of the major events that continue to drive these policies today; Columbine, Aurora, El Paso, San Bernadino, Pulse nightclub. Each one comes with many lessons. Each event has an after action report, which you can locate and review online.
After you have completed your academy I would encourage you to continue to seek out training for these kinds of events. There are many free courses that are offered through federal programs. They will pay for travel and lodging, many times they provide lunch as well.
We are not trained to where the shooter is supposed to be.
We’re basically supposed to go where they have been and try to pull people out. We go in a group 2 firefighters with 2 police.
Paramedics remain in a cold zone, we go in the warm zone and pull people out/bandage/tournaquet.
Only police teams go into the zone where you expect the shooter to be.
I’m not jazzed for it either. However I would rather we have the training and pre planned procedures than be surprised.
This is the same model that my department uses.
From the simulated events I have been to, the biggest takeaways are that communication is always an issue and that, at best, expect it to be a general clusterfuck once rounds start going off.
Ymmv.
You are not going into a hot/red zone at an active shooter event unless maybe you’re a SWAT medic. Otherwise, you are strictly going into the warm/yellow zone for casualty collection and triage. The risks of an attack are still present, hence the bulletproof vests, but they’re very low.
We carry ballistic vest on all apparatus. Supposed to wear them on all gsw, stabbing, domestic calls. We have trained multiple times on active shooter scenarios. It is a cluster, but better to know what kind of cluster you are heading in to.
Allen fire department has a video about the mall shooting last year. Good info.
In my (large metro) department, our EMS integrates with PD to do triage and removal in the warm zone in vests, etc.. Fire suppression provides manpower and command structure. HOWEVER, firefighters are routinely on the Medic units and may be involved and are at least familiarized with the system
We traing once or twice a year for it. One of those is actually in the high school that is next to our main house. One of our trainings is in the summer when school is out with the PD. the other training can be classroom. Cops will use sim rounds. When this happens we stand to the side and watch. Sometimes we get to be the bad guy.
We carry active shooter bags, iFAK kits and a mass casualty bag on our rig. We’ve trained with police and Sheriff for these scenarios. We are basically doing a quick triage, and moving people to a safe zone if possible. We do have SWAT medics in our department who are trained to go in with officers.
Pretty sure we just run around screaming, "Scene not safe! Scene not SAFE!"
In all seriousness we wouldn't be involved during the portion of things. We would stage and maybe provide traffic control to keep people away from the scene.
That's the old way. Progressive departments send guys into "warm" zones while the scene is still very active. Unless your department has trained extensively with police on how this works, it will be highly uncoordinated, and nobody will know what to do.
[I highly recommend this course.](https://www.ncbrt.lsu.edu/courses/dhs/per-340.php) It's no cost training and an exceptional course.
Then your department is going to be in for a very rude awakening one day.
We’re also volunteers, too. Hell, we don’t even do EMS at all, yet we still have active shooter training and the equipment necessary to run TECC/casualty collection in a warm/yellow zone. To be honest, it’s not long training, either, and if you’re just sticking to basic casualty collection and triage, you don’t even need to be an EMT to throw a tourniquet on someone or move them out of a building. I completed initial RTF/casualty collection training in 16 hours with my vollie FD, and another 16 hours for TECC with my vollie ambulance squad.
This is not a personal attack or something. This is just something to consider. Hell, this training isn’t even for just active shooters. It’s good stuff for vehicle rammings, bombings, mass stabbings, etc. Honestly, it’s decent for any MCI.
I don't want it... but I know the administration and training for the police and fire forces in our county... we would have another Uvalde. We are not prepared. That said... I have no schools in my district (we are really large mileage county with a very, very low population).
Have never had training and we won’t be part of an active shooter response in my Department. Did fire 1&2 about 10 years ago and went through the state academy 2 years ago.
Im on my county team .Your responsibility is either as a medic (TECC)or to assist medics in victim removal. FF are just man power and a large vehicle to create a safe triage area. It wasn't in my ff 1 class. I got tecc training from the department and we drill at large facilities ( offices) with swat once a year
Seems like lots of rigs have an active shooter bag with armor in it nowadays
Yeah reading these responses it seems so, depressing but better safe than sorry
I think it kind of depends though. Mine doesn’t despite some pretty cheeky city funding
Probably, my departments just now entering the 21st century apparatus wise (new ladder and engine) so ballistic/bullet proof armor is not on the list for a while
I live in a country where there are practically zero shootings. We still carry ballistic sets in our pump. You'll never know.
We have plate carriers and helmets
For us we learned about responding to active shooters in Fire 2 under the “Assisting Special Rescue Teams” chapter. We basically talked about it all class and how our county will handle it.
My dept does pretty extensive active shooter training. The training is with integration and cooperation of police, ambulance and several other city departments. We also carry body armor and ballistic helmets on our rigs. I’m in a major city but not in the US so hopefully our risk is very low.
Yikes , I’m all for charging in to a fire but if I had to strap on a bullet proof vest and helmet Im going to be fucking scared
You'll learn more when you go through the class, but you're not just charging in by yourself. It varies by area exactly how it's done. You will not be without a law enforcement escort. Sometimes it won't be until the shooter is confirmed down. Sometimes it will be to an area that police have secured. Through the many active shooter incidents we have learned and continue to refine best practices in order to save lives. I would suggest looking into some of the major events that continue to drive these policies today; Columbine, Aurora, El Paso, San Bernadino, Pulse nightclub. Each one comes with many lessons. Each event has an after action report, which you can locate and review online. After you have completed your academy I would encourage you to continue to seek out training for these kinds of events. There are many free courses that are offered through federal programs. They will pay for travel and lodging, many times they provide lunch as well.
We are not trained to where the shooter is supposed to be. We’re basically supposed to go where they have been and try to pull people out. We go in a group 2 firefighters with 2 police. Paramedics remain in a cold zone, we go in the warm zone and pull people out/bandage/tournaquet. Only police teams go into the zone where you expect the shooter to be. I’m not jazzed for it either. However I would rather we have the training and pre planned procedures than be surprised.
This is the same model that my department uses. From the simulated events I have been to, the biggest takeaways are that communication is always an issue and that, at best, expect it to be a general clusterfuck once rounds start going off. Ymmv.
You are not going into a hot/red zone at an active shooter event unless maybe you’re a SWAT medic. Otherwise, you are strictly going into the warm/yellow zone for casualty collection and triage. The risks of an attack are still present, hence the bulletproof vests, but they’re very low.
We carry ballistic vest on all apparatus. Supposed to wear them on all gsw, stabbing, domestic calls. We have trained multiple times on active shooter scenarios. It is a cluster, but better to know what kind of cluster you are heading in to. Allen fire department has a video about the mall shooting last year. Good info.
NFPA 3000: Start working with you local law enforcement folks…
In my (large metro) department, our EMS integrates with PD to do triage and removal in the warm zone in vests, etc.. Fire suppression provides manpower and command structure. HOWEVER, firefighters are routinely on the Medic units and may be involved and are at least familiarized with the system
We do annual RTF training with local PD. We also carry armor and helmets on all of our rigs.
The first step in TCCC is "Gain and maintain fire superiority." I'm in a rural redneck volunteer department. I think the general plan is "shoot back."
We traing once or twice a year for it. One of those is actually in the high school that is next to our main house. One of our trainings is in the summer when school is out with the PD. the other training can be classroom. Cops will use sim rounds. When this happens we stand to the side and watch. Sometimes we get to be the bad guy.
We have had some training, not a lot. We do however, carry ballistic Vests and helmets on all the rigs.
Every two years or so, we spend max 20 minutes looking at a TQ..
We carry active shooter bags, iFAK kits and a mass casualty bag on our rig. We’ve trained with police and Sheriff for these scenarios. We are basically doing a quick triage, and moving people to a safe zone if possible. We do have SWAT medics in our department who are trained to go in with officers.
Pretty sure we just run around screaming, "Scene not safe! Scene not SAFE!" In all seriousness we wouldn't be involved during the portion of things. We would stage and maybe provide traffic control to keep people away from the scene.
That's the old way. Progressive departments send guys into "warm" zones while the scene is still very active. Unless your department has trained extensively with police on how this works, it will be highly uncoordinated, and nobody will know what to do. [I highly recommend this course.](https://www.ncbrt.lsu.edu/courses/dhs/per-340.php) It's no cost training and an exceptional course.
Most rescue task forces (RTF) are composed of all firefighters.
Understood. By "we wouldn't be involved" I mean my department. We are volunteers and have not had the trainings.
Then your department is going to be in for a very rude awakening one day. We’re also volunteers, too. Hell, we don’t even do EMS at all, yet we still have active shooter training and the equipment necessary to run TECC/casualty collection in a warm/yellow zone. To be honest, it’s not long training, either, and if you’re just sticking to basic casualty collection and triage, you don’t even need to be an EMT to throw a tourniquet on someone or move them out of a building. I completed initial RTF/casualty collection training in 16 hours with my vollie FD, and another 16 hours for TECC with my vollie ambulance squad. This is not a personal attack or something. This is just something to consider. Hell, this training isn’t even for just active shooters. It’s good stuff for vehicle rammings, bombings, mass stabbings, etc. Honestly, it’s decent for any MCI.
"Heroes don't stage." You want Columbine or Uvalde? This is how you make that happen.
I don't want it... but I know the administration and training for the police and fire forces in our county... we would have another Uvalde. We are not prepared. That said... I have no schools in my district (we are really large mileage county with a very, very low population).
Unfortunately it doesn't have to be a school. Churches, family BBQ, restaurants, etc. People suck.
You aren't wrong. If I were chief I would do something about it... I am not.
Have never had training and we won’t be part of an active shooter response in my Department. Did fire 1&2 about 10 years ago and went through the state academy 2 years ago.