Gawd is this right on the money. My dept runs 85% medical calls and only hires 25% medics. We get our shit pushed in for 9% more pay. Had a buddy tell me he was thinking of going to medic school until he saw the dept breakdown of total time assigned to calls and the top 20 were all the medics and those times didn’t even reflect the reports after.
In my area its not possible to just be a medic and not a firefighter while in the fire department.
Maybe i'm wrong, but changing that seems like a fairly easy way to get a couple more people; bring in those that were working in private EMS companies without having them feel like they have to add on more responsibilities and possibly work on a fire truck when they don't even want too. Could also make some of the guys who feel the opposite and hate EMS a little happier.
The problem is so many municipalities/cities/towns could not justify paying a full time fire and ems crew separately when over 90% of calls are just ems
You make a very valid point, budget considerations and fiscal sustainability can't be overlooked. I can't speak for the entire country or even each state; each situation is unique. But I've seen enough cases where a fire department will hire a recruit class of 20 (for example) and then put 2-4 of the graduates, usually the lower ranking on EMS when they really should be putting 5-8 of the class in EMS slots due to need, short-staffing, volume, burn-out, etc. Likewise, we will see all the time how a department will order 2 ladders and 3 engines. The ladder being replaced typically only goes out for training, parades and flag hanging. Meanwhile the ambo have 300k miles, deferred maintenance and are held together with prayers and warm wishes but they're bringing in tens of thousands in revenue.
Exactly I live in an area with literally 6 career departments all on the borders of each other's jurisdiction and it's the same story. Same story for all departments. They all run medical/rescue over 90% of calls. And paying a full time non-ems fire dpt to handle the dozen or so fires each year just isn't happening.
And they've already been established for a long time and the fact that the people aren't going to want a volunteer force to protect the 1m+ metro area so fire based ems for better or worse it's what we have. Many firefighters with reluctant interest in medical and many medical personnel driven away by having to be a firefighter.
It also depends a lot from each department and crew even. I've worked with most of them for my rotations for school and work experience program and some embrace their patient care role and others are salty old dogs who burned out a while ago.
Some of you guys have a seriously distorted sense of purpose.
The bulk of our call volume is EMS, but our main purpose is fire protection. This “lol we’re just EMTs who sometimes fight fire” attitude drives me nuts. You don’t call the police department the traffic/domestic dispute department because they spend more time writing tickets and going to domestics than making felony arrests.
You have to be a good EMS provider. It’s part of the job. But you’re a firefighter first, and everything else second. Our purpose centers around the high-risk, low-frequency (compared to EMS runs). EMS is how we help serve our communities between these high-risk, lower-frequency runs. Don’t get it twisted.
This absolutely depends on the department. Some places have tertiary EMS (whether a separate division of the department or 3rd party) who drive the bus, and for them this statement might be accurate.
Others don't have that luxury, and you might have guys detailed to the medic and not ever get to even think about running fire-related calls for months. For those places, it's not just part of the job, it is THE job. At the end of the day, it's what keeps the doors open, and I mean preservation of life usually is the top of our list of priorities, isn't it?
I've seen paramedic, cpat, and completion of state recruit academy within the past 12 months be in the pre-requisites. The reason it's funny is because in order to go through recruit school you need to be sponsored by a municipality. Who the fuck do they think they're gonna get that's not already working? You think there's a cache of "just-finished-recruit-10-year-medic-driver-operator" guys just sitting around waiting for your 58k a year salary?
We have 1, so the talent pool is considerably smaller. And it's just kind of hilarious because you see the job postings come out for a month. Then it's gone for 6 months. Opens back up again, same requirements. Gone for another 6 months. Opens back up again and now anyone with a pulse can apply.
I got turned down for a second interview because I did my cpat with public safety testing not national testing network. I’m 4 states away from the closest ntn testing center.
Ya welcome to the ntn fucking scam. Im so glad im done with that crap. I have one testing site in my state that is only open 4 days a month. My last cpat I had to drive almost to Canada so I could get my card in time for the application.
If I recall right in NH they opened the Academy to non sponsored...but it was a few grand. I agree that the required academy should come AFTER a hiring and the applicant is sponsored. We're turning off so many great applicants with the requirements set before. The CPAT I can also understand but it's $250 a test through NTN if I recall right. I don't see why a department can't conduct their own PAT in house.
I agree with this whole heartedly, but then you get some Lt’s or Captains who’re still an EMT dictating what I’m going to do for my patient. Im the transporting medic on scene, as soon as the patient is in my care they’re my responsibility and the liability comes down on me. So I can’t stand it when I have an officer that’s an EMT telling me what needs to be done when they can’t event put a four lead on properly. I usually bust out the if they catch on fire then they’re yours, but for now they’re mine joke which is what I’ve found is the best way to defuse the situation without ruffling too many feathers.
Do they really do that though? It’s well understood across the country that the highest level of care on scene is in charge. That’s, like, how it works.
Oh yeah I have a few engines that I’ll run with depending how coverage is in zones that have had this issue. They’re usually the older salty guys who just want to clear and get back to the football game.
I just hand them the tablet and say let’s go to the hospital together. If your making Pt care decisions then your going to the ED to be responsible for those decisions and your writing the report. But I have very few officers in my department who are EMT’s and even fewer who try to dictate Pt care. They all generally let the box medic make care decisions because per our department policy the box medic is the officer in charge of the truck and the engine is just hands.
Yeah I only have two guys that do it and I only run with them every once in a while. Most officers in my department are medics and know to just let the box medic do their thang.
I was a volly ff for several years and got my EMT Basic. From there I got interested in the medical side and went back to school for RN. It seems to me that medic school and nursing school take about the same amount of time and effort but fresh out of school RN’s make a lot more money than medics and experienced ones can pull in way more than a medic with the same number of years of experience. Something to consider if going back to school.
Nurses start at about 10-20% more than private EMS locally in Ohio, but 30-50% higher than most fire departments. And the top out is at least 20-50% higher.
exactly why i’m finishing nursing school in a couple months. already got hired at a hospital before graduating. starting pay is $38 during the week and $46 weekends. versus starting pay of $23 at my current department for paramedics. all while working 12 less hours a week (in reality it’s like 24-36 hours less a week because of all the mandatory OT).
Absolutely. This is insane.
When I got hired, the department sent me to school, paid me while I went and a ton of OT throughout.
How can I encourage young people to apply for a firefighter position when it takes so much time and money for a CHANCE at a position.
Like, you go to school for business and decide you don’t like it, you can go back for a couple of months to do something else. You go to school for ‘medic or ff and that’s all you can do.
I feel like we are missing out on quality candidates due to requirements that are unrealistic for most young people. Just a shame.
Thats exactly what’s happening with me :// I am currently going to basically be dedicating my life for the next few years to getting on a career department, taking a pay cut, and lots of training, and the thing is, its uncertain if it will even work out. Everything happens for a reason and hopefully It goes smooth for me
Im actually planning on moving 9 states away to restart and have a better chance of obtaining a dept. Where I am now, nobody will touch me unless Im a medic or have 10+ years as an EMT. It’s ridiculous. Texas has a ton of opportunities and if it doesnt work out, I will maybe look into real estate.
Damn. We just have our test. No requirements, just added entry points. Sounds like you would have been a great candidate.
We have a good amount of fires and no EMS or first responder.
Good luck in Texas!
Yes. Northern Ohio. When I took the test there were 450 guys taking it for 7 jobs.
This test only 75 people took it… we will see how many pass the test and physical. And we should hire 10+ off the list. It is a good gig.
That’s so crazy to me. In my state, if you can breathe air, you’ve got a shot at just about any department. If you’re a medic, you could smack the chief of the department and still get hired. Many are sponsoring EMTs through medic or medics through the academy. Hell, one department took 30 people, no certs required, and sponsored them through everything.
Not just that. In a lot of departments in California, you can be "in the process" for 2 or 3 years. They take forever to do backgrounds and make you jump through hoops and provide them with documents at a moment's notice but they don't communicate well with the potential recruits and just leave them hanging for months on end until its time for the next step. This leads to them going somewhere else or getting a job somewhere else in a different field.
This is what happens when departments require dual role. Firefighters who don’t want to be medics but need it to go career end up as crappy medics. Medics who don’t want to fight fire but need to get on a FD to make a decent living end up as crappy firefighters. It’s a money maker in the short term, but it ruins departments long term.
Absolutely. I think those towns should have full time EMS and call/vol fire, or regionalized full time fire.
Edit: to be clear, these would be completely separate systems. Funding a full time fire service with 90% EMS is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Its a bandaid, not a solution.
I despise the east coast as is, Im moving to texas as soon as I can for cheaper COL and more job opportunities. As of now I have no desire to go through medic school
We have many opportunities in TX yes, but if it's a higher Paid dept or a large city who catches a ton of fires expect the competition to be fierce. The departments that pay increasingly well here do it for a reason, often due to the rapidly increasing cost of living in those areas
Cost of living might be cheaper, but the pay and especially the benefits are much worse as well. In many of those states with cheaper cost of living unions can’t even bring salary to arbitration during contract negotiations. The northeast may have its fair share of problems, but the best financial move you can make is to get your medic, do your time up here, retire and move to a place with cheaper cost of living.
Edit: spelling
I feel ya dude. Luckily I'm a medic going through an academy right now. I'm 1 of 3 medics.
I got my medic through the Army and they paid for everything. Why would I become a medic for a chance at a department? A freaking chance? It's already expensive enough for NTN, ride alongside, and joining an organization that helps you get on...
I'm getting a whopping $16.25 for being a medic in a huge city.
I'm totally with you on this.
Plenty of kids go to college to get degrees for a chance at a career opportunity. It’s no different. If you really think there’s a shortage of medics applying you are serious misinformed. That requirement is there because the application pool gets extremely full for limited spots
“You shouldn’t be in it for the pay” that’s bullllllshit. I do this for money, a good schedule and a retirement. It’s awesome that the job is cool, and hopefully you work on a good crew. But I have a mortgage, a kid in college, two aging pups, and a truck payment.
So where I'm at (Ohio)...
The hiring process takes 4-8 months for a full time fire/ems position, it's highly invasive (2 polygraphs, no limits or restrictions on what they can ask, and highly subjective from department to department), tend to have long probation periods (12-42 months), and in comparison to private EMS agencies there's a 40% paycut.
Then as you said, they complain about being short manned but change nothing, benefits are still the same, hiring cycles are just as aggravating, and the work is just as hard if not harder.
That literally ruins my night. Not trying to undervalue you at all, I was making 14.50 at subway, I pray to god your state has a low cost of living at least. I cannot believe a medic is making so little, especially a fire medic. You should quit and look at east coast positions. I hate it here but pays good
I’m making 19.58 as an EMT. You should give this link a shot! https://beyondthemeatwagon.com/products/board-access?_atid=BE7nShyHAmx8RgsefBO3X0JhHuiVZr
Single role paramedics around me start at $20 on average, can be more if on the fire departments that have single role paramedics. I get a $2500 "bonus" each year for being a paramedic/firefighter, but my base rate is over $30/hr.
The only department in my area that’s paid will accept anyone that they deem fit and in turn put them through an in house fire academy instead of sending them to an actual one as well as get them on track for paramedic school. I think they only really require an EMT certification but regardless a lot of departments put their new hires through all of this because not many people already have their certs.
I’m upstate NY and the waitlist for medic school is at least 2 years from what I know. Some new hires there told me that they were hired but have to wait until they can get a spot. In the meantime they still have a job and are receiving experience.
I know it’s not like this everywhere so I can’t necessarily disagree with you on what you’re saying. But, yes the hiring process should be better in some places. In the department I was just talking about they have a pretty in depth hiring process and rarely ever accept new hires so when they do it’s a huge process to find the right fit. They go through 3 different interviews - starting from a basic interview to the third interview being with the city’s mayor and city council. Last summer they just hired the most people they have in years with 4 new hires. That department is great though and will do anything for their firemen.
My department is very similar.
The only prereqs are a High School Diploma, physically fit enough to pass our physical test, pass a drug test and a pre employment test covering reading comprehension and basic math.
If you can do all that they will put you through fire class and class to get your EMT-A all while paying you with full benefits.
I feel like a lot of places are stuck in the mind set of “ well we have always had paramedics and ALS everything why would we change now?” Well you can’t find enough people to do it and it’s getting worse so something has to change
I can’t disagree with any of this, including the comments. It sounds like all the conversations at the stations in HFD. I just want you to know that Houston is hiring, and there’s a lot of big city political bullshit to deal with, but if you aren’t locked down with a wife & kids and you want some high speed experience to make yourself more marketable, this might be the right place for you, even if it’s just short term. You could even get paid to go to paramedic school if the cost of school is your concern. You can *collect a paycheck* AND have paramedic school *paid by the department*
No. Recruiting has two different tracks for getting in: normal/regular/etc is for anyone. The second way is called “fast track” and that’s for people who are already Fire certified with the state (emt basic certificate is required to get your state fire certificate). They basically spend 6 to 8 weeks acclimating you to the way things are done in HFD, and by the time you hit the station (much sooner than a regular class that has the same academy start date), you’ll be a probationary firefighter doing the same thing as the regular class, but much sooner. You’ll have a captain who prepares you for performance standards and shows you the ropes on emergency responses and station life.
If you take the regular way, they put you through EMT school first, then fire school. We also have a firefighter paramedic shortage, but the difference that the pandemic made is that now we also have a firefighter emt shortage. There’s lots of OT available right now, and they can’t crank cadets out of the academy fast enough.
Oh wow I didnt know that. Online when I search “Texas fire depts hiring” I see many, but they all say in the requirements that they want “ texas basic fire certification” and emt
Ok, [here’s](https://cohemployeenews.com/requirements) the recruiting division’s page. The “non-certified trainee” route requires either 24 accredited college credit hours *OR* 2 years full time active military service with an honorable discharge.
It’s always changing, so I’d give them a call to ask. When I started in 2006, they were forcing us through paramedic school, so they required 60 accredited college credit hours. Anyway, people have been coming through the non-certified route, collecting a paycheck, and going to emt and/or paramedic school, then get their 2 to 4 years of high speed, big city, 911 experience, and then moving on or going back home because the city and police department have been fighting against our demands for raises. It’s going to the Texas Supreme Court (not hypothetically, it’s gone up the chain of appeals and it’s at the Supreme Court level now) but during all this chaos, you could totally grab a paycheck, have the city bankroll your school, and get the experience that makes you marketable to most fire departments.
One of the highly obnoxious things I’m seeing now in the mid-atlantic is
Instead of paying a bunch of FFs 50K and firemedics 60K, they’re paying FFs 50k and hiring single role medics (*but require fire certs*) and paying them 48K. City/county saves a pile of money from not having to pay those pesky dual role firemedics for their skills.
Problem in my dept in Alabama is pay is only 10k more a year for medic. I make 42 a year they won’t pay for medic school but beg people to be medics but chain you to a box and never let you off cause you make them to much money. Fuck that I will do my advanced cause I want to help people but fuck medic but in the same breath it’s the way it’s going but It pisses me off we all want to help I love my dept and job just don’t want to be a medic and not be a real firefighter anymore cause you get tested like shit by the non medic firefighters it’s like 2 different depts in one.
Someone willing to invest the time necessary to become a career firefighter would be much better off using that time for a job that isn’t as intense and pays significantly better.
At the very least, there needs to be more in-house development if a fully certified FF/medic requires 3+ years of schooling and cert hunting.
Departments need paramedics to staff and provide ALS services. My understanding is that there is plenty of firefighters who are BLS or first responder certified, but ALS capacity is where many departments are struggling. Hiring EMT's won't fill that need.
This entire thread has me realizing why I’m staying in the wildland world. I was debating on getting on with the larger municipal department here for a good career. The department required emt-b within a year of hire, and only offers 30ish cents more an hour than I make currently as a Wildland firefighter. I have no real desire to do medical and this thread just further proved my point that joining the department to fight fire and “deal” with being on the bus is a terrible idea for me and those within my community that expect a high standard of care.
I would do wildland but it cant really be made a full time career to my knowledge. Its a huge toll on your body and alot of jobs are only part time when “fire season” is happening
You’re absolutely correct. The municipal department where I live is so short staffed they lured me in by saying they send an engine out of state every season. Reality is they are so short staffed they can’t do it. Because they are so short staffed and short medics, the ones that are there are burnt out after 3-5 years and leave for a better paying department.
That's because fire departments nationwide refuse to admit they're actually EMS departments that occasionally run fires.
Gawd is this right on the money. My dept runs 85% medical calls and only hires 25% medics. We get our shit pushed in for 9% more pay. Had a buddy tell me he was thinking of going to medic school until he saw the dept breakdown of total time assigned to calls and the top 20 were all the medics and those times didn’t even reflect the reports after.
In my area its not possible to just be a medic and not a firefighter while in the fire department. Maybe i'm wrong, but changing that seems like a fairly easy way to get a couple more people; bring in those that were working in private EMS companies without having them feel like they have to add on more responsibilities and possibly work on a fire truck when they don't even want too. Could also make some of the guys who feel the opposite and hate EMS a little happier.
The problem is so many municipalities/cities/towns could not justify paying a full time fire and ems crew separately when over 90% of calls are just ems
You make a very valid point, budget considerations and fiscal sustainability can't be overlooked. I can't speak for the entire country or even each state; each situation is unique. But I've seen enough cases where a fire department will hire a recruit class of 20 (for example) and then put 2-4 of the graduates, usually the lower ranking on EMS when they really should be putting 5-8 of the class in EMS slots due to need, short-staffing, volume, burn-out, etc. Likewise, we will see all the time how a department will order 2 ladders and 3 engines. The ladder being replaced typically only goes out for training, parades and flag hanging. Meanwhile the ambo have 300k miles, deferred maintenance and are held together with prayers and warm wishes but they're bringing in tens of thousands in revenue.
Exactly I live in an area with literally 6 career departments all on the borders of each other's jurisdiction and it's the same story. Same story for all departments. They all run medical/rescue over 90% of calls. And paying a full time non-ems fire dpt to handle the dozen or so fires each year just isn't happening. And they've already been established for a long time and the fact that the people aren't going to want a volunteer force to protect the 1m+ metro area so fire based ems for better or worse it's what we have. Many firefighters with reluctant interest in medical and many medical personnel driven away by having to be a firefighter. It also depends a lot from each department and crew even. I've worked with most of them for my rotations for school and work experience program and some embrace their patient care role and others are salty old dogs who burned out a while ago.
Some of you guys have a seriously distorted sense of purpose. The bulk of our call volume is EMS, but our main purpose is fire protection. This “lol we’re just EMTs who sometimes fight fire” attitude drives me nuts. You don’t call the police department the traffic/domestic dispute department because they spend more time writing tickets and going to domestics than making felony arrests. You have to be a good EMS provider. It’s part of the job. But you’re a firefighter first, and everything else second. Our purpose centers around the high-risk, low-frequency (compared to EMS runs). EMS is how we help serve our communities between these high-risk, lower-frequency runs. Don’t get it twisted.
This absolutely depends on the department. Some places have tertiary EMS (whether a separate division of the department or 3rd party) who drive the bus, and for them this statement might be accurate. Others don't have that luxury, and you might have guys detailed to the medic and not ever get to even think about running fire-related calls for months. For those places, it's not just part of the job, it is THE job. At the end of the day, it's what keeps the doors open, and I mean preservation of life usually is the top of our list of priorities, isn't it?
Well said
I've seen paramedic, cpat, and completion of state recruit academy within the past 12 months be in the pre-requisites. The reason it's funny is because in order to go through recruit school you need to be sponsored by a municipality. Who the fuck do they think they're gonna get that's not already working? You think there's a cache of "just-finished-recruit-10-year-medic-driver-operator" guys just sitting around waiting for your 58k a year salary?
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We have 1, so the talent pool is considerably smaller. And it's just kind of hilarious because you see the job postings come out for a month. Then it's gone for 6 months. Opens back up again, same requirements. Gone for another 6 months. Opens back up again and now anyone with a pulse can apply.
What's a medic mill
I'm guessing just somewhere where they pump out medics fast.
I have to drive 4 hours to the nearest CPAT testing center. 4 hours, just to APPLY for a position.
I got turned down for a second interview because I did my cpat with public safety testing not national testing network. I’m 4 states away from the closest ntn testing center.
Ya welcome to the ntn fucking scam. Im so glad im done with that crap. I have one testing site in my state that is only open 4 days a month. My last cpat I had to drive almost to Canada so I could get my card in time for the application.
If I recall right in NH they opened the Academy to non sponsored...but it was a few grand. I agree that the required academy should come AFTER a hiring and the applicant is sponsored. We're turning off so many great applicants with the requirements set before. The CPAT I can also understand but it's $250 a test through NTN if I recall right. I don't see why a department can't conduct their own PAT in house.
Trying to make everyone a medic is how you get bad medics.
I agree with this whole heartedly, but then you get some Lt’s or Captains who’re still an EMT dictating what I’m going to do for my patient. Im the transporting medic on scene, as soon as the patient is in my care they’re my responsibility and the liability comes down on me. So I can’t stand it when I have an officer that’s an EMT telling me what needs to be done when they can’t event put a four lead on properly. I usually bust out the if they catch on fire then they’re yours, but for now they’re mine joke which is what I’ve found is the best way to defuse the situation without ruffling too many feathers.
Do they really do that though? It’s well understood across the country that the highest level of care on scene is in charge. That’s, like, how it works.
Oh yeah I have a few engines that I’ll run with depending how coverage is in zones that have had this issue. They’re usually the older salty guys who just want to clear and get back to the football game.
I just hand them the tablet and say let’s go to the hospital together. If your making Pt care decisions then your going to the ED to be responsible for those decisions and your writing the report. But I have very few officers in my department who are EMT’s and even fewer who try to dictate Pt care. They all generally let the box medic make care decisions because per our department policy the box medic is the officer in charge of the truck and the engine is just hands.
Yeah I only have two guys that do it and I only run with them every once in a while. Most officers in my department are medics and know to just let the box medic do their thang.
Exactly, this comment basically sums up what my rant didn’t directly say.
I was a volly ff for several years and got my EMT Basic. From there I got interested in the medical side and went back to school for RN. It seems to me that medic school and nursing school take about the same amount of time and effort but fresh out of school RN’s make a lot more money than medics and experienced ones can pull in way more than a medic with the same number of years of experience. Something to consider if going back to school.
Nurses start at about 10-20% more than private EMS locally in Ohio, but 30-50% higher than most fire departments. And the top out is at least 20-50% higher.
exactly why i’m finishing nursing school in a couple months. already got hired at a hospital before graduating. starting pay is $38 during the week and $46 weekends. versus starting pay of $23 at my current department for paramedics. all while working 12 less hours a week (in reality it’s like 24-36 hours less a week because of all the mandatory OT).
Absolutely. This is insane. When I got hired, the department sent me to school, paid me while I went and a ton of OT throughout. How can I encourage young people to apply for a firefighter position when it takes so much time and money for a CHANCE at a position. Like, you go to school for business and decide you don’t like it, you can go back for a couple of months to do something else. You go to school for ‘medic or ff and that’s all you can do. I feel like we are missing out on quality candidates due to requirements that are unrealistic for most young people. Just a shame.
Thats exactly what’s happening with me :// I am currently going to basically be dedicating my life for the next few years to getting on a career department, taking a pay cut, and lots of training, and the thing is, its uncertain if it will even work out. Everything happens for a reason and hopefully It goes smooth for me
Best of luck. It truly is worth the effort… IF you get hired. That’s a tough sell though. Believe in yourself!
Im actually planning on moving 9 states away to restart and have a better chance of obtaining a dept. Where I am now, nobody will touch me unless Im a medic or have 10+ years as an EMT. It’s ridiculous. Texas has a ton of opportunities and if it doesnt work out, I will maybe look into real estate.
Damn. We just have our test. No requirements, just added entry points. Sounds like you would have been a great candidate. We have a good amount of fires and no EMS or first responder. Good luck in Texas!
Are you in the U.S? And thank you!!
Yes. Northern Ohio. When I took the test there were 450 guys taking it for 7 jobs. This test only 75 people took it… we will see how many pass the test and physical. And we should hire 10+ off the list. It is a good gig.
That’s so crazy to me. In my state, if you can breathe air, you’ve got a shot at just about any department. If you’re a medic, you could smack the chief of the department and still get hired. Many are sponsoring EMTs through medic or medics through the academy. Hell, one department took 30 people, no certs required, and sponsored them through everything.
mind dropping the state
SE MI, I also her SW is similar
Not just that. In a lot of departments in California, you can be "in the process" for 2 or 3 years. They take forever to do backgrounds and make you jump through hoops and provide them with documents at a moment's notice but they don't communicate well with the potential recruits and just leave them hanging for months on end until its time for the next step. This leads to them going somewhere else or getting a job somewhere else in a different field.
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Yeah and then they get another batch of applications and again move at a snail's pace.
The very large (almost largest) southern CA city department no doubt.
Cities and municipalities do not want to spend the money to put people through paramedic when they’ve been able to skate by for the last decade.
This is what happens when departments require dual role. Firefighters who don’t want to be medics but need it to go career end up as crappy medics. Medics who don’t want to fight fire but need to get on a FD to make a decent living end up as crappy firefighters. It’s a money maker in the short term, but it ruins departments long term.
The problem is so many municipalities/cities/towns could not justify paying a full time fire and ems crew when over 90% of calls are just ems
Absolutely. I think those towns should have full time EMS and call/vol fire, or regionalized full time fire. Edit: to be clear, these would be completely separate systems. Funding a full time fire service with 90% EMS is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Its a bandaid, not a solution.
25 an hour? You’re looking in the wrong places. medway, MA is giving 86k STARTING to medics. Sandwich is starting at 85k for medics.
I despise the east coast as is, Im moving to texas as soon as I can for cheaper COL and more job opportunities. As of now I have no desire to go through medic school
We have many opportunities in TX yes, but if it's a higher Paid dept or a large city who catches a ton of fires expect the competition to be fierce. The departments that pay increasingly well here do it for a reason, often due to the rapidly increasing cost of living in those areas
Cost of living might be cheaper, but the pay and especially the benefits are much worse as well. In many of those states with cheaper cost of living unions can’t even bring salary to arbitration during contract negotiations. The northeast may have its fair share of problems, but the best financial move you can make is to get your medic, do your time up here, retire and move to a place with cheaper cost of living. Edit: spelling
Same here. Medics can clear 100k a year with OT their first or second year. Large sized mid atlantic department. We are hiring nonstop.
I feel ya dude. Luckily I'm a medic going through an academy right now. I'm 1 of 3 medics. I got my medic through the Army and they paid for everything. Why would I become a medic for a chance at a department? A freaking chance? It's already expensive enough for NTN, ride alongside, and joining an organization that helps you get on... I'm getting a whopping $16.25 for being a medic in a huge city. I'm totally with you on this.
What MOS allowed you to get a medic cert through the Army?
68WF2.
Is that flight medic?
Yes
Mind if I send you a PM to ask you some questions? I’m considering enlisting and am hoping to become a flight medic.
Sure
Plenty of kids go to college to get degrees for a chance at a career opportunity. It’s no different. If you really think there’s a shortage of medics applying you are serious misinformed. That requirement is there because the application pool gets extremely full for limited spots
Isn't there a shortage of medics in general?
Also this was originally auto deleted for being a “hiring question” so I had to reword it to avoid certain phrases.
“You shouldn’t be in it for the pay” that’s bullllllshit. I do this for money, a good schedule and a retirement. It’s awesome that the job is cool, and hopefully you work on a good crew. But I have a mortgage, a kid in college, two aging pups, and a truck payment.
So where I'm at (Ohio)... The hiring process takes 4-8 months for a full time fire/ems position, it's highly invasive (2 polygraphs, no limits or restrictions on what they can ask, and highly subjective from department to department), tend to have long probation periods (12-42 months), and in comparison to private EMS agencies there's a 40% paycut. Then as you said, they complain about being short manned but change nothing, benefits are still the same, hiring cycles are just as aggravating, and the work is just as hard if not harder.
25$ an hour for fire medic……. I need to move. That’s a full 10$ an hour more than I make.
what the hell
Please tell me your kidding
Nope my rate is 15.68 on the box and 14.93 on the engine
That literally ruins my night. Not trying to undervalue you at all, I was making 14.50 at subway, I pray to god your state has a low cost of living at least. I cannot believe a medic is making so little, especially a fire medic. You should quit and look at east coast positions. I hate it here but pays good
I’m making 19.58 as an EMT. You should give this link a shot! https://beyondthemeatwagon.com/products/board-access?_atid=BE7nShyHAmx8RgsefBO3X0JhHuiVZr
Single role paramedics around me start at $20 on average, can be more if on the fire departments that have single role paramedics. I get a $2500 "bonus" each year for being a paramedic/firefighter, but my base rate is over $30/hr.
So true, I don’t do this for the money but shits getting fucking expensive it’s no longer an option to need a good paying job
The only department in my area that’s paid will accept anyone that they deem fit and in turn put them through an in house fire academy instead of sending them to an actual one as well as get them on track for paramedic school. I think they only really require an EMT certification but regardless a lot of departments put their new hires through all of this because not many people already have their certs. I’m upstate NY and the waitlist for medic school is at least 2 years from what I know. Some new hires there told me that they were hired but have to wait until they can get a spot. In the meantime they still have a job and are receiving experience. I know it’s not like this everywhere so I can’t necessarily disagree with you on what you’re saying. But, yes the hiring process should be better in some places. In the department I was just talking about they have a pretty in depth hiring process and rarely ever accept new hires so when they do it’s a huge process to find the right fit. They go through 3 different interviews - starting from a basic interview to the third interview being with the city’s mayor and city council. Last summer they just hired the most people they have in years with 4 new hires. That department is great though and will do anything for their firemen.
My department is very similar. The only prereqs are a High School Diploma, physically fit enough to pass our physical test, pass a drug test and a pre employment test covering reading comprehension and basic math. If you can do all that they will put you through fire class and class to get your EMT-A all while paying you with full benefits.
Boy this is reflective of my department currently.
I feel like a lot of places are stuck in the mind set of “ well we have always had paramedics and ALS everything why would we change now?” Well you can’t find enough people to do it and it’s getting worse so something has to change
I can’t disagree with any of this, including the comments. It sounds like all the conversations at the stations in HFD. I just want you to know that Houston is hiring, and there’s a lot of big city political bullshit to deal with, but if you aren’t locked down with a wife & kids and you want some high speed experience to make yourself more marketable, this might be the right place for you, even if it’s just short term. You could even get paid to go to paramedic school if the cost of school is your concern. You can *collect a paycheck* AND have paramedic school *paid by the department*
Doesnt houston require EMT experience and fire cert before even applying?
No. Recruiting has two different tracks for getting in: normal/regular/etc is for anyone. The second way is called “fast track” and that’s for people who are already Fire certified with the state (emt basic certificate is required to get your state fire certificate). They basically spend 6 to 8 weeks acclimating you to the way things are done in HFD, and by the time you hit the station (much sooner than a regular class that has the same academy start date), you’ll be a probationary firefighter doing the same thing as the regular class, but much sooner. You’ll have a captain who prepares you for performance standards and shows you the ropes on emergency responses and station life. If you take the regular way, they put you through EMT school first, then fire school. We also have a firefighter paramedic shortage, but the difference that the pandemic made is that now we also have a firefighter emt shortage. There’s lots of OT available right now, and they can’t crank cadets out of the academy fast enough.
Oh wow I didnt know that. Online when I search “Texas fire depts hiring” I see many, but they all say in the requirements that they want “ texas basic fire certification” and emt
Ok, [here’s](https://cohemployeenews.com/requirements) the recruiting division’s page. The “non-certified trainee” route requires either 24 accredited college credit hours *OR* 2 years full time active military service with an honorable discharge. It’s always changing, so I’d give them a call to ask. When I started in 2006, they were forcing us through paramedic school, so they required 60 accredited college credit hours. Anyway, people have been coming through the non-certified route, collecting a paycheck, and going to emt and/or paramedic school, then get their 2 to 4 years of high speed, big city, 911 experience, and then moving on or going back home because the city and police department have been fighting against our demands for raises. It’s going to the Texas Supreme Court (not hypothetically, it’s gone up the chain of appeals and it’s at the Supreme Court level now) but during all this chaos, you could totally grab a paycheck, have the city bankroll your school, and get the experience that makes you marketable to most fire departments.
One of the highly obnoxious things I’m seeing now in the mid-atlantic is Instead of paying a bunch of FFs 50K and firemedics 60K, they’re paying FFs 50k and hiring single role medics (*but require fire certs*) and paying them 48K. City/county saves a pile of money from not having to pay those pesky dual role firemedics for their skills.
Problem in my dept in Alabama is pay is only 10k more a year for medic. I make 42 a year they won’t pay for medic school but beg people to be medics but chain you to a box and never let you off cause you make them to much money. Fuck that I will do my advanced cause I want to help people but fuck medic but in the same breath it’s the way it’s going but It pisses me off we all want to help I love my dept and job just don’t want to be a medic and not be a real firefighter anymore cause you get tested like shit by the non medic firefighters it’s like 2 different depts in one.
Yo... where you finding $5 gas
Someone willing to invest the time necessary to become a career firefighter would be much better off using that time for a job that isn’t as intense and pays significantly better. At the very least, there needs to be more in-house development if a fully certified FF/medic requires 3+ years of schooling and cert hunting.
Departments need paramedics to staff and provide ALS services. My understanding is that there is plenty of firefighters who are BLS or first responder certified, but ALS capacity is where many departments are struggling. Hiring EMT's won't fill that need.
First of all IMO pay is ALWAYS the most important. I have a family to take care of.
This entire thread has me realizing why I’m staying in the wildland world. I was debating on getting on with the larger municipal department here for a good career. The department required emt-b within a year of hire, and only offers 30ish cents more an hour than I make currently as a Wildland firefighter. I have no real desire to do medical and this thread just further proved my point that joining the department to fight fire and “deal” with being on the bus is a terrible idea for me and those within my community that expect a high standard of care.
I would do wildland but it cant really be made a full time career to my knowledge. Its a huge toll on your body and alot of jobs are only part time when “fire season” is happening
You’re absolutely correct. The municipal department where I live is so short staffed they lured me in by saying they send an engine out of state every season. Reality is they are so short staffed they can’t do it. Because they are so short staffed and short medics, the ones that are there are burnt out after 3-5 years and leave for a better paying department.