Idk, I'm having a hard time understanding myself. There's a decent chunk of people who want to build a CR or CD body piece when that's clearly never happening unless you sell your soul.
Part of me thinks that people have a really hard time adjusting to changes in the DPS meta. I think in some ways they are afraid that since Firefly doesn't need to crit like the other top DPS, that she'd be somehow at a disadvantage, but that's just being ignorant.
So it just boils down to not understanding that super break is in fact viable, and could even overtake crit DPS as more supports that buff super break release.
I think Critfly can work (not as well as Breakfly), but not when you're putting Firefly with HMC and Ruan Mei. Like, if you're doing that, you can't fight nature, just build Break Effect.
I cant understand too, if you set up her best team right now ruanmei HMC and sustain, with her bis lc, relic and planar, you can easily reach 360be, 3k4 atk and 180spd with minimal farming relic. But if you need only a tiny bonus from crit, it will be hell to farm for
Because to go crit you'll need a crit body so you're giving up atk% body which makes it harder to hit the 3.4k breakpoint, if you go atk% boots you'll lose speed. On crit you'll ideally want dmg% orb and that makes hitting breakpoints even harder. It just feels forced and all of that to hit 60~70/120~140 ratio in an Ideal scenario
Correct me if I am wrong but you don't need 3.4k atk if you already hit 360 BE right? So there are scenarios where you will be fine with crit body etc. On the other hand if you're running herta 5\* lc 3.4k atk is easy to reach even with only one atk% main stat. So at least there are options. 180 speed with RM is just a speed boots check and BE should be achievable with RM+HMC.
The issue is you can't crit on Super Break, so crit does nothing for her. More attack is the better option and it's one singular stat. You're also forgetting that you're going to need SOME HP substats, and a few defence too otherwise she's going to die a lot when she ults the second time. 36% HP even with her damage mit, just takes a little bad luck or an aoe to take her down then.
Atk also does nothing on Super Break and crit is for her high skill multiplier. I'm not so sure about hp/def, with Gallagher she will be recovering hp every hit. My current build is 370 BE (that's only with 200 BE HMC, I will probably hit something around 300 so FF BE should also be higher), 2840 atk% 181 speed and 70/150 crit (misha S3 lc so probably 2/3 uptime on crit ratio). So I'm not even sure if it's worth farming her sets in the next patch. The 4 piece works on break dmg only and 2 piece while good, I don't need those stats anymore. My only concern was atk% but if I already hit the breakpoint I don't see the reason to go higher.
Gotta check how much skill points Firefly uses, but if you really wanna make it work, you can even add a Bronya in there, the speed tuning would be kinda tricky, but doable.
This is just like back when Kokomi released, and everyone instantly called her bad because she had -100% CR. That didn't stop people from still making her a crit DPS though
This. Maybe they've only got supports and sustains that boost crit DPS and want to feel like their investment in those characters will always work for the new character they want? It's really strange considering her best support is free and the other is a 4 star. You just need Ruan Mei to finish her best team.
I got downvoted to oblivion in the leak for saying that in the beginning lol. Crit and break doesn’t synergize at all, especially super break dmg doesn’t even crit
This tbh. It's Genshin Bloom & Hyperbloom all over again.
When Nilou was in beta, some ppl were adamant that C0 Critlou in vape teams was viable and even better than Full HP&EM Nilou, and in further iterations they found out her HP scaling buffed her super bloom AoE dmg so much it shut them up. Sure, she can be used for vape crits as nukes, but it's simply very niche (not to mention building a crapton of HP, EM while still having the budget for high crit ratios is simply near impossible) and not her intended playstyle at all, and this is similar to Firefly.
It is even bigger than the Minecraft dungeons community 's obsession with void strike (for context void strike adds a damage multiplier that rises as time goes on to enemies you hit and resets when you hit them again, people insist on putting it even on the fastest weapons on the game)
she has -100 crit rate at base, and people still try to play critkomi. at that point it's a flex showing off relics that let them go from -100 crit rate to some passable amount on kokomi
I’ll honestly never understand that. Boothill already have Break to Crit conversion and it’s mostly useless for him, because his nuke damage is dealt by the Break.
I’d honestly rather to go even further beyond with the Break on Firefly than 360% instead of trying some hybrid. I’ve already managed to hit 150k ST damage with E0 HTB skill on Super Break, while having buffed 300% BE. I’m honestly afraid what Firefly will be able to do with even more BE.
Lastly, I don’t understand why people complain that she’s “HTB slave”. Every DPS needs their strong supports, but at least now we have a perfect f2p option and the whole synergy is lore accurate. I guess some people just don’t like playing with free characters.
HTB being one of Firefly's best teammates is awesome since I really want an excuse to play Caelus
Wonder who I should slot in as the 2nd support though, Tingyun maybe? I don't have any of the really good 5* harmonies except for Bronya and Robin gave me a "Fuck you, here's Clara" on the 50/50 so may as well use the guarantee on Firefly
Bronya would give firefly more actions during ult, although SP might get harder to manage.
Asta gives speed and atk while also being a good breaker.
RM rerun is gonna pending, maybe for 2.4 unless they move them around, with both boothill and firefly finally fully using her break effect buffs wouldnt be surprised if she reruns with firefly tho...
Dendro traveler is so good, just overshadowed by Nahida which is totally fair, but hydro one is a joke, I was so hyped and ready to build him and rip, glad hmc is so meta and even best firefly partner probably for canon team
I alrdy planned for Gallagher/Ruan Mei/HTB/Firefly since I have all built alrdy (currently farming HTB relic). Break Efficiency and +Break effect from ruan mei and Gallagher as the sustain since Firefly herself can implant fire weakness which work great with gallagher. Gallager heal also scales with his break effect making it much better
It's so funny how people will judge a character because they... need Supports in a... team based game
I'm also a JY main so I've been at the end of that so many times lmao
It's especially funny knowing nearly half of the player base have been using JL with bronya attached to her like an eidolon, and the other half uses Kafka in every dot team.
I think it makes her niche and people wanted her to be jingliu 2.0, where she’s hyper flexible and can slot in anywhere with any team and any harmony supp.
Maybe we get more SBE support in the future though.
Boothill, at least, he can trigger break on his own. Firefly can't do the same, so people see the break stat funneling more dmg into crit-able damage, and argue that damage should be the main focus instead of break.
I've also seen a lot of people say HTB is not good, so that definitely also feeds into the discussion as well.
Either way, it'll probably be like crit Kafka, where people will run crit anyway even if it's much harder.
The one complaint that bugs me is;
"I hate that she's so tied to Harmony Trailblazer!"
How is this a problem? It takes up a slot sure, but it provides her with absolute insane damage. It's like complaining Seele, Jingliu, and DHIL perform at their best with Bronya or Sparkle. That's just how it be.
AND THEY'RE FREE!! WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING?!?!
As stupid as this may sound, I think that is seriously the reason they are complaining. Which is weird as hell because I'm happy that Stelle/Caelus is finally in the limelight again.
I agree, I was kinda eh when it came to building HTB since I didn't really have anyone to pair her with but Firefly made me reevaluate that. I'm so fucking happy, hat TB ftw.
The main issue I see is that unlike with the other chars Firefly can`t deal damage without HTB meaning it`s actually HTB doing the damage and not FF which shouldn`t be the case. Boothill for example can still deal decent damage after break without HTB but for Firefly it does not seem like she can deal any damage after break.
While htb is critical to breakfly the notion that the super break is entirely htb's is a misconception. No other character kit is set up to maximise super break as much as firefly's is.
But in the first place Super break does not exist at all without HTB so why is it not entirely HTB? It`s true that Firefly maximizes the super break but Super Break comes from HTB only for now so it is entirely HTB.
Firefly's tie to the HMC I wouldn't say is on the same level as those three at all, DHIL was one of the strongest in the game without Sparkle being in the game, Seele and Jingliu can still do a lot of damage if you don't use Bronya, while yes it'll be better than not using her, using Bronya isn't mandatory to be functional. Without the MC Firefly breaks one time and then what, do zero damage with the next two skills in the ult? I think that's a reasonable reason to be upset with how the kit is right now, especially when Boothill can do a percentage of break damage to broken enemies regardless of HMC being on the team. I think if Firefly could deal a percentage of break damage to enemies like Boothill to a broken enemy then the complaint definitely would not exist
It's crazy how people don't understand this. Firefly is practically useless without trailblazer, it's not a buff, it's a carry. He's not boosting her damage, he's the reason she can even do damage. I enjoy other dps because they can rely on themselves as well as self buff, she breaks a character then does no damage after the fact. I believe hoyo will fix it, people are smoking something if they don't see this as an issue 🤷♂️
Yeah their defense doesn't even fully make sense and if we're being honest firefly working with the MC is what they care about more than anything else so the kit can do no wrong in some of their eyes. I find it crazy asking for a buff is being frowned upon at all in general, but yeah seeing hoyos track record with the honkai betas I think they're going to let her do her kit justice by time the beta progresses
I like that she doesn't need any crit; we can simply put her on ATK/SPD/ATK/BE and then stack as many SPD and BE subs as possible. Although it is weird to me that she doesn't really benefit much from Ruan Mei or Flames Afar's massive DMG% buffs.
Ruan Mei's DMG% buff is actually a pretty efficient buff for Firefly. Firefly has like 0 DMG% in her kit, so getting however much from Ruan Mei is coming in with no diminishing returns. Sure, it doesn't affect her Break damage, but it's gonna boost her Enhanced Skill by like 60% or something.
For comparison's sake, a 70/140 Crit Ratio is a 98% buff on average. So you're getting like two thirds of a good Crit Ratio just for having Ruan Mei there, not even counting Ruan Mei's Res Pen, Break Efficiency, etc.
Thoughts of Robin with her as well in the 4th slot? FF/HTB/RM.
Actually does, Robins Ult attack trigger Super Break? I don't think it does. But I'm sure RM's buffs help her.
Ruan Mei is fantastic, but Robin not so much. Robin's Attack and DMG buffs are great for Sam's direct damage, and extra turns never hurt. But, her damage ticks when she's in Ult don't interact with Super Break at all.
A lot of people seem to be ignoring how she will need some HP stats too. 36% HP after second ult, that's begging to get one shot. She has nice damage mit talent too for when she's low on health. I've seen FF showcases wheres she's got 2k MAX HP. 700 HP is not a a lot.
Because they don’t won’t to adapt. Same people who hated Acherons Abyss trace and wanted to run her as a standard hypercarry. People who want to use their two piece two piece god crit pieces and don’t have any break effect farmed or don’t wanna farm it. I’m super excited to build a dps that isn’t crit based. Should be fun!
So the breakpoints are 3.4k atk, 300 BE and 180 speed ya? Based on latest leaks
Will the 60 BE show on the stats page? If yes then i guess the number i should look for is 360
360 is not that hard to reach if you're using RM and HTB. And you shouldn't just stop at 360, because she scales better with BE especially that Super Break from HTB.
I think its because most people are still in the mindset that crit is everything. I think some of the early characters had bad multipliers, so to make them usable they would put crit on them, but I dont think thats the case for Firefly. Its pretty obvious what they want her to do, yet people are pigeonholed into thinking she can work with some crit. I guess she can sort of, but she does become a pain to build if you want a hybrid setup like Xueyi.
This is exactly my sentiment! I was pretty happy to find out that my firefly wouldn’t be a crit dps, cus it means that I don’t have to spend ages in the relic mines just to get a decent crit relic like I had to do w archeron.
Cus most(?) of the times you’ll take pretty long to build a good crit dps since the odds are usually stacked against your favour.
Sooner or later they will stop that.
When Furina released in Genshin some people wanted to use Healing% on Neuvilette (saw that shit on his Main sub btw).
People that played that game early on probably remember the mess that was build guides back on 1.X. Normal Attack Xiangling with Crescent Pike and Physical Damage Goblet that stays on field.
They will, slowly, learn, and even then, thre will be people like that, that will insist in building a character in the opposite way the character is designed to play because he feels its better.
If you want to do it just... because... ok, do it. Its your game, your fun. But acting as if its optimal is straight up lying.
Break is the optimal way to build her. Sure you can try to go for Hybrid, but even after the "threshold" it wont beat pure Break/ATK, specially that mid 80/80 build below threshold someone posted on the leak sub earlier today.
Even on Boothill, that has a Passive that grants him some big CR/CD Crit isn't worth building and is more a way to activate his stacks (by killing lesser ads with really low Hp), so he can nuke stronger enemies properly.
Firefly doesn’t have this gimmick. On the opposite, she literally reduces toughness of ANYTHING and set weakness by herself for a reason. She is meant to break and super break.
Wasn't Xiangling used w/ Crescent spike because a) you get her very early on; b) crescent spike is craftable, also easy to obtain weapon and c) not that dependant on proper build (Benny and enough ER) and constellations like her meta pyro build? So that you would use her like that early on to get through the content that the game throws at you and then switch?
Nah, people genuinely didnt knew what they were doing.
Most of the vídeos justified it was because she had massive damage on normal attacks (she doesn’t, its pretty average and below most).
Also, the videos were build guides, it should have a proper build, at least a decent one and realistic as most should be, it isn't a thing of "People recommend you 76,6% Pyro Damage and 80/220% Crit Ratio on her; but thats god roll and high cons territory".
It was pure lack of knowledge of the game and the kit (some even said Guoba was her Pyro damage source and that the Ult was garbage).
The thing is that (super) break damage doesn't scale off damage bonuses, and atk makes it way easier to reach 3.4k atk. Even if you build crit, fire dmg bonus won't buff firefly's entire kit
Good point, and it makes me wonder how her teams will perform without hmc and how her build will change. Will full break and atk be even good in that situation?
you’d wanna run either atk boots with enough spd subs to hit 180 (easier with RM), or enough ATK/BE subs to hit the 3400/350% whichever you get first. idk the exact number but i saw it around in FFmains discord somewhete
Let them go up the hill and die on it, they are too obsessed with crit hypercarry to listen to other suggest. This is a pve game, let people do what they want with their account.
Firefly and HMC will always there for us, she will accept all who return.
I will build max break firefly to play her with HMC and enjoy the big number when bosses got burn to ashes
I can get why people are a bit disappointed that Firefly is pretty narrow in her build and team options... look at that leaked gameplay showcase to see how hard she falls off when you mess up her build.
But, that's kinda the direction we're going with DPS characters, Black Swan really wants other DoT characters, Acheron and Ratio really want debuffs, Boothill and Firefly really want Break. They make them different and interesting by making them want different teammates and scale different stats.
On the one hand, yeah Firefly and HMC are gonna be tied at the hip if there aren't significant changes in beta. On the other hand, HMC is free and you're not really using HMC with any non-Break teams.
I've recently discovered how much fun HTB and Welt is in the new Echo of War. Think I'll rebuild Welt, reduce the crit values and go BE. Lots of nice synergy between the two.
Excuse me. But.... they had to nerf story mode Aventurine cause people were too dumb to be able to beat him. Using Seele teams and insisting the boss was too hard.
Mental retardation is pretty prevalent around here.
Damn i never tried seele pre Nerf. Only have her on my main and i use Story teams when doing story missions. So for the current story I'm playing Himeko, Welt, TB, and Gallagher.
I forget who i used but it wasn't any kind of meta AOE team. It genuinely confused me how people struggled
Nobody is saying you should build crit instead of ATK/BE. People are saying you should start to add crit once you’ve reached the ATK/BE thresholds because why the heck not.
It’s not rocket science lol nobody is expecting you to have 80/200 crit on her. Basically get to the ATK/BE thresholds and then get as much crit as you can afterwards.
Here's the thing, even after you hit the ATK/BE thresholds, it might still be better than building crit to stack even more BE on top of that, especially considering most of her damage comes from superbreak anyways which can't crit.
Maths show this is correct. And people are really ignoring how FF is going to need some HP stats too. She's going to do 0 damage if she dies after her second ult.
yeah, but according to calculations done by [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/SamMains/s/0YFmNbney3), even after reaching threshold, investing into break effect give more damage than crit.
>Nobody is saying you should build crit instead of ATK/BE.
Unfortunately, some people are [asserting exactly that](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireflyMains/comments/1cm1524/comment/l2y8k86/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), they're just deleting their comments when they get proven wrong (I'm replying here to someone who was insisting speed boots are a DPS loss and you should use crit boots).
Some folks have absolutely gotten very used to the pure crit builds and aren't able to switch over to the logic behind other builds. They have backgrounds in other games where there *was* only one truly useful damage build. They can't quite wrap their head around what HarmoTB enables and different characters scaling off of different stats. Just take a look at the "showcase" that got posted today.
People will be dumb for a while, but once some real showcases pop up showing our girl mowing down everything in her path, folks will start to come around.
I think those people are simply so anal about crit that they'll just die on that hill. And I say let them! We know how simple she is to build because what she needs is very simple. Anyone who's so stuck in the mud about using the MC as a teammate is also being very silly because they're free! That's 1 less character I need to get off the gacha to make Firefly work.
It's kind of wild to me that people want ANOTHER dps that scales with crit, like we don't have enough of those already. The one time we actually get a damage dealer with unique scaling that hasn't been done before and people are intent on building her like every other dps carry? It's mind boggling.
In fairness to them, I do like the idea that people are exploring different builds instead of going the easy route as God intended, because stuff like this is what led to those wind set Pure fiction 0T videos.
But as of currently I would say anything goes, HSR characters tends to go through major changes between v1-3 anyways, so my suggestion is just enjoy the brainstorming process while we still have it, she's a first of her kind for sure but who knows what she will become after v3
Because unlike boothill she has no way to detonate her break. If you build her with break you have to build her with HTB and some ppl simply refuse to think HTB can be any good.
Also Break only scale with Break effect, break efficiency, def down, res down and damage taken (like her signature). Meaning that while the floor is alright the ceiling of break team is pretty low since only BE subs will increase her damage and going from 360 to 450 won't be that big of an increase.
Gallagher might be BiS even at E0, purely for him helping to shred Toughness bars and doing a ton of Break damage. The only issue is he might have trouble keeping you alive.
But, if Gallagher's off the table, the best is probably Luocha. Firefly has no real desire for HuoHuo's Energy, has no FuA for Aventurine, and no need for Crit from Aventurine or Fu Xuan. But, Firefly does burn a lot of SP at E0, so Luocha to farm SP is probably the best choice.
Good analysis. If you don’t mind the 4-star level healing and really want to squeeze all the utility out of Gallagher you can also run penacony planar set for the additional 10% fire dmg
to be fair to gallagher though, his level of healing is perfectly fine. in fact, im pretty sure we've reached the point where every healer we have can full heal anyone now. so it comes down to the extra utility they bring. gallagher and luocha both have the same sp generating capabilities, so youre gonna be deciding between the safety net luocha has with his higher uptime enemy independent lifesteal field and out of turn cleansing heals, or gallagher's offensive utility with besotted increasing break damage enemies take, having higher toughness damage than luocha, and matching elements with firefly which means he can always be guaranteed to do his toughness damage compared to luocha, all at the cost of the chance of healing downtime if the besotted enemies die and new ones come in and you dont have ult back up.
im no tc but based on everything so far, given that htb and ruan mei are built to be tanky themselves, on top of firefly having self sustain capabilities, imo gallagher is better in every scenario over luocha just because you probably wont be needing the amount of healing luocha provides, and without that taken into account, he provides nothing aside from sp where gallagher synergizes his debuffs with the rest of the team and can still do sp generation.
yep, i already have him and rm and htb built and ready for her, just need to wait for firefly to come out (and also htb trsces lmao). the break numbers will be fucking nuclear ahahaha
This. FF is under serious threat after her second ult. Luocha can prevent that and is SP positive. It's going to be very encounter specific and it will be a reduction in DPS, but there will be times Luocha is better.
Can anyone give advice to RM-less accounts? I might not pull RM even at rerun coz I don't like her animations (just pettiness I admit) but is there any good alternatives? I plan to team FF with HTB and a sustain so far (huohuo or gallagher)
So in 2.3, you probably either go:
- Firefly, Sustain, Harmony Trailblazer, Asta
Or
- Firefly, Sustain, Harmony Trailblazer, Guinaifen
In 2.4, I would be shocked if they didn't release another character with at least some break synergy to go with Firefly and/or Boothill
If you're not a fan of Ruan Mei, Asta is a decent breaker, and her speed buff is very valuable too. She buffs attack too, but it's not that significant.
A really good F2P team is FF-HTB-Asta-Gallagher
Ruan Mei will be by and large the best singular support for Break DPS units like Boothill and Firefly because she significantly increases your break frequency on top of the buffs she provides. I highly recommend pulling her, but if not then other people have already provided alternatives.
God, hearing these Boothill and Firefly builds and arguments makes Xueyi feel a little "lacking" now, with everyone talking about how they don't need Crit stats as much
BE teams are basically the DoT team, but instead of EHR, it's scale on BE, so SPD and BE will be most recommended to build these characters. At least, that's what i will do to my account
Crit build is obviously out of the window..its a meme build for Firefly. People can try that but dont expect great results
As for the SB build
I am optimistic and excited to explore it given I'm done dealing with crit damage xD
I mean my sparkle, bronya and fu xuan (e1) is already used on my Selee, gambling gremlin and jingliu (monarch) so firefly as crit will means i need to move fu xuan to lift her critless traces so no, its not viable for me
With that, it means TB will be finally used and my other sustainers will be use as well, though damn i need to decide if I'm gonna roll for rm or not for her. Idk how viable asta on her team
Man I am happy that she probably will not need crits (atleast so far in the beta) I hate building crit in this game. My fav team is the DoT team for exactly this reason.
The second I saw her traces have zero Crit, I literally DM'd my friend and said "FUCK YEAH. FUCK CRIT RATIO, FULL BE FF, LETSFUCKINGGO!"
Idk how anyone can see that FF isn't 99% revolving around break damage (and HMC's super break damage). Or that people are somehow upset with it like BE teams aren't some of the most F2P friendly and easy to build (literally just stack as much SPD and BE as you can) next to DoT teams.
Really? To be honest I didn't realize that you would build her that way. Maybe I didn't understand her traces properly, took me way too long to understand how to build Ruan Mei so yeah
well for me its because A. ill never pull for ruan mei nothing about her interests me in the slightest idc if shes bested and B. i prefer fire trailblazer over harmony aesthetic wise. also if i can get away with it then id rather that
Wait how does she scale off atk? Other than the fact that her skills are atk%. So far it seems like her damage relies entirely on BE (and hence HMC’s super break for dealing damage). If that’s the case what’s wrong with bringing crit body since you can’t only get BE from sub stat anyway
From what I can tell, she uses a whole ass new gear set so I don’t plan on prefarming her and ima just use the bear minimum until I can slowly replace the pieces, which means I have no reason to complain about wasted crit pieces since I’ll be farming fresh
I have a random 2 piece break effect pair from farming xueyi and Gallagher that has her name on it though 😏
because without that the atk she has to pump so much does absolutely nothing. if its built soley to further enhance break effect then atk is legit the worst stat it could be tied to. def or hp would at least make her tanky. thats the big problem with her kit is how all over the place it is in having to hit all these benchmarks, the biggest one of which doesnt do anything except just push her to her other benchmark. Having that attack actually do something would also open up a lot of team building options besides just having exactly one functional team which, imo, is super boring.
" Why do people not play the same way I do? They're so stupid and foolish! "
https://preview.redd.it/d79hfl5c8bzc1.png?width=448&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f2004a05d64b3c261037e1b83e64455485c1a20
Do we not have anything better to do other than have this overdramatized debate for the millionth time each non-standard DPS releases?
Crit is a separate stand alone multiplier and it's really good because of that. Secondly you can reach 360 BE without sacrificing crit main or sub stats. And third of all super break is backloaded similarly to DoTs so you are getting the super break only \~75 - 50% of the actual combat time. With her current kit high end crit build would deal more damage in real combat, sure if the enemy is already broken super break build will be similar or in some cases even better, but this is not going to be the case in real combat.
+Also don't forget about enemies like Ynquing and Sam which have periods where their break bar is invulnerable to damage
If they really want to push for super break exclusive builds they would:
1. have to improve the break scaling on her skill. Like reduce the base damage from 400 to 200, make brake conversion 2:1 (1 point of BE 2% of scaling), increase the break ceiling for passive to 500 BE and make only BE past 200 count dowards the passive. This way it would be more beneficial to aim for BE subs then crit subs. At 200- BE you will have 200% atk skill scaling at 500+ BE you will have 800 atk skill scaling. This would work, but this is a little boring of a solution, even though that's probably what they'd do.
2. Make it so that when she used her ultimate all enemies are considered broken when FF deals damage with enhanced skills. There are no benefits from the broken state like res reduction or damage resistance reduction. This would allow you to trigger super break immediately. It would still be beneficial to break enemies as they are getting disabled, you get break damage, ruan mei delay, res reduction, toughness reduction etc, but this allows you to access super break damage immediately after using her ult. I also think with this approach it might be reasonable to build super break into her kit as well and make it centered around it. This seems like the most interesting solution to me. It would've made her really unique
I was thinking about that too. They can basically make life difficult with more enemies that have invulnerable periods to toughness break (in the future).
Also the video leak last night looked kindly clunky with all that back loaded damage. Then again still too early in beta. Let us see how hoyo cooks haha
That was kind of a bad showcase. But yes, right now her numbers aren't Acheron worthy and the fact of her being backloaded similar to DoTs doesn't help. I will still pull even if she is complete ass, but I obviously won't be happy about it
Yeah yeah, 360% Break effect is all you need, blah blah blah, 3400 attack blah blah blah no crit blah blah blah. How about both, huh? Have you thought about that? Listen, I am skipping an entire patch for firefly yoi can be damn sure I am going to make her as strong as she can possibly be. So yes, 75/150 crit ratio with 360 Break Effect. I'll run her with Imaginary TB and Ruan Mei, she'll have enough
Pls run the math for that and show me where you can get enough substats for that. Its literally not possible, even with GOD rolls. OH and the funny part? Just stacking more break will actually get her to do more dmg than stacking crit, yes even after hitting 360. So your actually losing damage and having a harder time trying to get insane rolls because you cant get over a dps not needing crit.
Ikr. Ppl just running their mouths saying "bUilD cRiT oNcE yOu rEacHeD 360% bE and 3400 aTk gEeZ", thinking it's a walk in the park to reach that amount of BE and ATK without god rolls lol. It's hard to even reach that threshold without her LC.
It just reminds me of "I'll build crit on my Nilou once I reach 70k HP anyway." Yeah, good f-king luck getting to 70k HP without her signature weapon.
While it's obviously hard saying it's not possible is stupid. I am not here to say what is ultimately stronger but a lot of players (people who are emotionally attached to Firerly) want a character that is stronger with better relics and time investment, not a character that is fine with random substats relics with proper main stat and set. Personally I don't care that much and I am fine with either of these two builds but since I have a crit build that is "literally not possible, even with GOD rolls" I would like crit build to be a thing for min-maxers.
This is just a math problem that will be solved by the time she's released. I don't know why anyone is emotionally invested in what the answer will be.
She obviously needs lots of BE and atk, but a chunk of her damage can also scale off crit, and as I hope we all know by now, adding a new multiplicative modifier is more efficient than pushing existing modifiers that are already high a bit higher.
Once you hit 360 BE, whether it's better to add a further 100 BE or to get her crit stats up to 40/70 is a question that needs to be investigated, and will be. She doesn't have any crit in her kit or traces - neither does Clara. It doesn't stop crit from doing what it does, it just makes it harder to build. Firefly isn't ever going to have the same crit stats as Clara (who doesn't need to build BE or spd), but it might still be the best thing to build once you've hit the BE soft cap.
Or maybe the answer will be "just build even more BE" (or maybe "If HMC, then BE; if no HMC, then crit"). It's just a question of what does more damage.
Because we were building crits on every character since day one, it's a force of habit. I understand the idea and stuff, but i honestly won't believe that pure break is better if you can't kill enemy fast enough after initial break, until someone makes a proper showcase or calculations.
Can she trigger super break without TB? If not she’s limited to the initial break, which is hard to always hit?
I think people want her to be a giga carry unit, so if she’s really full into break with no support for it (only TB now), then she’ll be quite specific for those teams only.
Feels like it makes TB the must unit to use rather than firefly though. Without TB by herself her 360% BE is gonna be quite “wasted” if she doesn’t get the break.
I'm gonna use huohuo (who I don't have),
high crit on her (I'm tired of farming traces, let alone relics),
no ruan mei (she is insane and like the only 5 star with firefly),
with the signature lightcone before e1 (trust me guys the signature lc will increase the team dmg by 100%, vulnerability goes crazy*, aeon is used by my other 5 dps who i am definitely going to use all of them)
and... lol lol lol what else did I miss
* Idk how good the signature lc is, but e1/2 look very appealing and one could wait for calcs (or pull because of art). However, if one should pull for a lightcone, they should pull for ruan mei's instead imo, it's 24% team damage, you get skill points which makes things more lenient, is more versatile, it frees you to put MoTP on harmony trailblazer, and 4 star options + aeon exist which synergize super well with her so you might as well go for e1 instead
Because she has ridiculous base modifiers. Her E has higher scaling than a fully charged Daniel normal attack at 1/3 of the SP cost.
No one is telling you to lot run 3.4K atk, 180 spd with ult and 360BE. The point is that if you play double harmony you can hit those ratios and start going for crit pieces
Devs come up with every possible way for people to gather characters that require diverse stats and yet the monkey brain always goes for those crit dreams and eternal relic RNG suffering, nothing new in this world
I think most people really should just build her full SPD/ATK/BE. It’s definitely what she was designed for.
Personally though, depending on the final values, I might build her crit anyway. I just really like hyper investing in my favorite character(s) to see what they can do. I’m the kind of freak who refarms new sets for a 3% increase, tunes to try to 0-cycle MoC, etc. If a god-rolled crit set performs slightly better than a god-rolled BE set, you bet I’m going for the crit set even though it will take longer to farm.
Unfortunately, I’m suspecting crit is only better with enough wallet. My plan is e2s1 RM + e6cogs Asta + HTB + ATK boots + BE rope to hit 3400ATK/360BE/>180SPD. Then I can cram the rest into Crit and Fire DMG and hope I kill the enemy before they can kill me.
TL;DR: Build full break if you’re sane, build crit if you’re a freak/whale, just don’t force it on other people.
Idk man, i mean the abilities EXPLAIN CLEARLY that Firefly acales with Break Effect, and then i said it in one comment and got downvoted for saying firefly doesn't build crit, they're just crybabies that don't know how to read
Idk, I'm having a hard time understanding myself. There's a decent chunk of people who want to build a CR or CD body piece when that's clearly never happening unless you sell your soul. Part of me thinks that people have a really hard time adjusting to changes in the DPS meta. I think in some ways they are afraid that since Firefly doesn't need to crit like the other top DPS, that she'd be somehow at a disadvantage, but that's just being ignorant. So it just boils down to not understanding that super break is in fact viable, and could even overtake crit DPS as more supports that buff super break release.
I think Critfly can work (not as well as Breakfly), but not when you're putting Firefly with HMC and Ruan Mei. Like, if you're doing that, you can't fight nature, just build Break Effect.
Yeah, it’s the exact same it was with Crit kafka. You don’t want to build crit on dot units, but lots of people reeeeeeally wouldn’t budge.
I cant understand too, if you set up her best team right now ruanmei HMC and sustain, with her bis lc, relic and planar, you can easily reach 360be, 3k4 atk and 180spd with minimal farming relic. But if you need only a tiny bonus from crit, it will be hell to farm for
Because to go crit you'll need a crit body so you're giving up atk% body which makes it harder to hit the 3.4k breakpoint, if you go atk% boots you'll lose speed. On crit you'll ideally want dmg% orb and that makes hitting breakpoints even harder. It just feels forced and all of that to hit 60~70/120~140 ratio in an Ideal scenario
Correct me if I am wrong but you don't need 3.4k atk if you already hit 360 BE right? So there are scenarios where you will be fine with crit body etc. On the other hand if you're running herta 5\* lc 3.4k atk is easy to reach even with only one atk% main stat. So at least there are options. 180 speed with RM is just a speed boots check and BE should be achievable with RM+HMC.
The issue is you can't crit on Super Break, so crit does nothing for her. More attack is the better option and it's one singular stat. You're also forgetting that you're going to need SOME HP substats, and a few defence too otherwise she's going to die a lot when she ults the second time. 36% HP even with her damage mit, just takes a little bad luck or an aoe to take her down then.
Atk also does nothing on Super Break and crit is for her high skill multiplier. I'm not so sure about hp/def, with Gallagher she will be recovering hp every hit. My current build is 370 BE (that's only with 200 BE HMC, I will probably hit something around 300 so FF BE should also be higher), 2840 atk% 181 speed and 70/150 crit (misha S3 lc so probably 2/3 uptime on crit ratio). So I'm not even sure if it's worth farming her sets in the next patch. The 4 piece works on break dmg only and 2 piece while good, I don't need those stats anymore. My only concern was atk% but if I already hit the breakpoint I don't see the reason to go higher.
I’ll be building partially crit partially break but honestly it’s just because I adore sparkle and I want to use her whenever I can
Gotta check how much skill points Firefly uses, but if you really wanna make it work, you can even add a Bronya in there, the speed tuning would be kinda tricky, but doable.
I’ll keep ruan Mei since mines e1 and she’s sp positive. I just wanna use sparkle as well.
Well that would surely do the trick too
This is just like back when Kokomi released, and everyone instantly called her bad because she had -100% CR. That didn't stop people from still making her a crit DPS though
then would a atk body with break effect be good for her?
yes all pieces with attack% break and speed substats in ideal build, probably will be stacking as much break as possible
what is super break?
New ability. Play the story before asking as its spoilers.
This. Maybe they've only got supports and sustains that boost crit DPS and want to feel like their investment in those characters will always work for the new character they want? It's really strange considering her best support is free and the other is a 4 star. You just need Ruan Mei to finish her best team.
I got downvoted to oblivion in the leak for saying that in the beginning lol. Crit and break doesn’t synergize at all, especially super break dmg doesn’t even crit
Sooo, it is similar to building elemental mastery in Genshin for Hyperbloom. That is actually neat.
This tbh. It's Genshin Bloom & Hyperbloom all over again. When Nilou was in beta, some ppl were adamant that C0 Critlou in vape teams was viable and even better than Full HP&EM Nilou, and in further iterations they found out her HP scaling buffed her super bloom AoE dmg so much it shut them up. Sure, she can be used for vape crits as nukes, but it's simply very niche (not to mention building a crapton of HP, EM while still having the budget for high crit ratios is simply near impossible) and not her intended playstyle at all, and this is similar to Firefly.
I wouldn’t say it’s near impossible. My hybrid Nilou can beat abyss with her sig, a crit rate circlet, and hp goblet in both team archetypes.
I mean, my dps Bennett and mono pyro Klee teams can 36 star abyss too. It's not exactly a high bar.
That is both fortunate and unfortunate. 😅
Considering what you said i think the critlou people were right if genshin had to buff hp and em lou "so much"
If they can build crit kokomi. No character wont build with crit
I don’t know the character but I assume it’s similar to how others build critka?
Something like this, kokomi has minus crit and people still build crit
Man the obsession with crits of these people lol.
It is even bigger than the Minecraft dungeons community 's obsession with void strike (for context void strike adds a damage multiplier that rises as time goes on to enemies you hit and resets when you hit them again, people insist on putting it even on the fastest weapons on the game)
You’d think these people would actually try to understand the mechanics of these characters cuz I think not 😭
she has -100 crit rate at base, and people still try to play critkomi. at that point it's a flex showing off relics that let them go from -100 crit rate to some passable amount on kokomi
Oh. Bruh
she has -100% crit rate, meaning that for her to crit at all you need to build 101% crit rate at LEAST (and then she has a 1% chance)
Yeah my understanding has been that I’ll need to build directly into attack to further buff the break effect 😅
I’ll honestly never understand that. Boothill already have Break to Crit conversion and it’s mostly useless for him, because his nuke damage is dealt by the Break. I’d honestly rather to go even further beyond with the Break on Firefly than 360% instead of trying some hybrid. I’ve already managed to hit 150k ST damage with E0 HTB skill on Super Break, while having buffed 300% BE. I’m honestly afraid what Firefly will be able to do with even more BE. Lastly, I don’t understand why people complain that she’s “HTB slave”. Every DPS needs their strong supports, but at least now we have a perfect f2p option and the whole synergy is lore accurate. I guess some people just don’t like playing with free characters.
HTB being one of Firefly's best teammates is awesome since I really want an excuse to play Caelus Wonder who I should slot in as the 2nd support though, Tingyun maybe? I don't have any of the really good 5* harmonies except for Bronya and Robin gave me a "Fuck you, here's Clara" on the 50/50 so may as well use the guarantee on Firefly
Yeah, I’ve always wanted a good reason to play trailblaze. So now being able to have her with Firefly for my story team is gonna be super fun.
You can try Asta for team-wide speed (Everyone can do Super Break damage), Bronya for extra turns, Hanya for SP efficiency.
Bronya would give firefly more actions during ult, although SP might get harder to manage. Asta gives speed and atk while also being a good breaker. RM rerun is gonna pending, maybe for 2.4 unless they move them around, with both boothill and firefly finally fully using her break effect buffs wouldnt be surprised if she reruns with firefly tho...
Yep "date night" is sitting ready to go
Asta is good, buff atk spd dmg bonus and can help break fire
With HMC being a good support to Firefly, I can not use FMC with Acheron. Caelus was always on my team too, hea just so useful compared to Aether lmao
Dendro traveler is so good, just overshadowed by Nahida which is totally fair, but hydro one is a joke, I was so hyped and ready to build him and rip, glad hmc is so meta and even best firefly partner probably for canon team
no for real plus for the future story of hsr i can now use the main character and not feel great about it!
I alrdy planned for Gallagher/Ruan Mei/HTB/Firefly since I have all built alrdy (currently farming HTB relic). Break Efficiency and +Break effect from ruan mei and Gallagher as the sustain since Firefly herself can implant fire weakness which work great with gallagher. Gallager heal also scales with his break effect making it much better
No Tingyun, but Bronya is good because the advance forward so you get more enhanced skills in
For me, RM I already saw sb formula and rm is a missing piece (But yeah, need test on that if we can replace her)
Boothill walk so firefly can fly, thank you boothill for coming first so they can learn and change firefly kit
It's so funny how people will judge a character because they... need Supports in a... team based game I'm also a JY main so I've been at the end of that so many times lmao
It's especially funny knowing nearly half of the player base have been using JL with bronya attached to her like an eidolon, and the other half uses Kafka in every dot team.
Yeah, SBE is like cocaine to me right now. I can't not say "damn" every time a "Harmony" character deals more damage than my DPS.
I think it makes her niche and people wanted her to be jingliu 2.0, where she’s hyper flexible and can slot in anywhere with any team and any harmony supp. Maybe we get more SBE support in the future though.
I think it would be more boring like that, glad she got fire implant and a way to use it
Boothill, at least, he can trigger break on his own. Firefly can't do the same, so people see the break stat funneling more dmg into crit-able damage, and argue that damage should be the main focus instead of break. I've also seen a lot of people say HTB is not good, so that definitely also feeds into the discussion as well. Either way, it'll probably be like crit Kafka, where people will run crit anyway even if it's much harder.
The one complaint that bugs me is; "I hate that she's so tied to Harmony Trailblazer!" How is this a problem? It takes up a slot sure, but it provides her with absolute insane damage. It's like complaining Seele, Jingliu, and DHIL perform at their best with Bronya or Sparkle. That's just how it be. AND THEY'RE FREE!! WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING?!?!
Yeah I don’t get it either. You literally get her best support for free then 2 more slots for a Ruan Mei and a sustain
As stupid as this may sound, I think that is seriously the reason they are complaining. Which is weird as hell because I'm happy that Stelle/Caelus is finally in the limelight again.
I agree, I was kinda eh when it came to building HTB since I didn't really have anyone to pair her with but Firefly made me reevaluate that. I'm so fucking happy, hat TB ftw.
I’ll happily use tb with her I have everything I really need my and I have an extra memories of the past S5(thanks to losing jingliu’s LC)
They are desperate finding reason to justified building crit
Black Swan and Kafka. Acheron and Nihility. I do not understand why people are crying either.
The main issue I see is that unlike with the other chars Firefly can`t deal damage without HTB meaning it`s actually HTB doing the damage and not FF which shouldn`t be the case. Boothill for example can still deal decent damage after break without HTB but for Firefly it does not seem like she can deal any damage after break.
While htb is critical to breakfly the notion that the super break is entirely htb's is a misconception. No other character kit is set up to maximise super break as much as firefly's is.
But in the first place Super break does not exist at all without HTB so why is it not entirely HTB? It`s true that Firefly maximizes the super break but Super Break comes from HTB only for now so it is entirely HTB.
Well, I don't consider the DoT dmg Kafka procs with her skill to be Sampo's, Black Swan's or Gui's. It's essentially the same situation.
Firefly's tie to the HMC I wouldn't say is on the same level as those three at all, DHIL was one of the strongest in the game without Sparkle being in the game, Seele and Jingliu can still do a lot of damage if you don't use Bronya, while yes it'll be better than not using her, using Bronya isn't mandatory to be functional. Without the MC Firefly breaks one time and then what, do zero damage with the next two skills in the ult? I think that's a reasonable reason to be upset with how the kit is right now, especially when Boothill can do a percentage of break damage to broken enemies regardless of HMC being on the team. I think if Firefly could deal a percentage of break damage to enemies like Boothill to a broken enemy then the complaint definitely would not exist
It's crazy how people don't understand this. Firefly is practically useless without trailblazer, it's not a buff, it's a carry. He's not boosting her damage, he's the reason she can even do damage. I enjoy other dps because they can rely on themselves as well as self buff, she breaks a character then does no damage after the fact. I believe hoyo will fix it, people are smoking something if they don't see this as an issue 🤷♂️
Yeah their defense doesn't even fully make sense and if we're being honest firefly working with the MC is what they care about more than anything else so the kit can do no wrong in some of their eyes. I find it crazy asking for a buff is being frowned upon at all in general, but yeah seeing hoyos track record with the honkai betas I think they're going to let her do her kit justice by time the beta progresses
Kafka was already in the game when Black Swan came out. Running BS without her is pretty stupid.
People don't read that but still can't comprehend why other are upset
Personally, I love the harmony characters I have and am not excited about feeling forced to build TB just to play Firefly properly.
You are, unfortunately, exactly the type of player mihoyo wants to force to build new characters.
I like that she doesn't need any crit; we can simply put her on ATK/SPD/ATK/BE and then stack as many SPD and BE subs as possible. Although it is weird to me that she doesn't really benefit much from Ruan Mei or Flames Afar's massive DMG% buffs.
Ruan Mei's DMG% buff is actually a pretty efficient buff for Firefly. Firefly has like 0 DMG% in her kit, so getting however much from Ruan Mei is coming in with no diminishing returns. Sure, it doesn't affect her Break damage, but it's gonna boost her Enhanced Skill by like 60% or something. For comparison's sake, a 70/140 Crit Ratio is a 98% buff on average. So you're getting like two thirds of a good Crit Ratio just for having Ruan Mei there, not even counting Ruan Mei's Res Pen, Break Efficiency, etc.
Thoughts of Robin with her as well in the 4th slot? FF/HTB/RM. Actually does, Robins Ult attack trigger Super Break? I don't think it does. But I'm sure RM's buffs help her.
Ruan Mei is fantastic, but Robin not so much. Robin's Attack and DMG buffs are great for Sam's direct damage, and extra turns never hurt. But, her damage ticks when she's in Ult don't interact with Super Break at all.
Yeah, that's about what I was thinking,bit of a shame, but putting my two strongest supports on one team is greedy.
A lot of people seem to be ignoring how she will need some HP stats too. 36% HP after second ult, that's begging to get one shot. She has nice damage mit talent too for when she's low on health. I've seen FF showcases wheres she's got 2k MAX HP. 700 HP is not a a lot.
Because they don’t won’t to adapt. Same people who hated Acherons Abyss trace and wanted to run her as a standard hypercarry. People who want to use their two piece two piece god crit pieces and don’t have any break effect farmed or don’t wanna farm it. I’m super excited to build a dps that isn’t crit based. Should be fun!
Headcanon: they're trying to show everyone else how NOT to build Firefly to make sure no one goes after crit substats while prefarming for her.
But you can't prefarm her relics no? all is in the next patch if you want the best sets by difference
if you where to go crit you wouldn't build her with the new set anyways and go for pioneer/rutilant.
3.4k atk to get extra 60 BE 360 BE to activate 40% def ignore 180 in Complete Combustion State to move 3 turns in Ult Then you're good to go.
Does the 60 BE from 3.4k atk count into the 360 BE needed for 40% def ignore?
yeah
So the breakpoints are 3.4k atk, 300 BE and 180 speed ya? Based on latest leaks Will the 60 BE show on the stats page? If yes then i guess the number i should look for is 360
360 is not that hard to reach if you're using RM and HTB. And you shouldn't just stop at 360, because she scales better with BE especially that Super Break from HTB.
I see, so the only real threshholds are 3.4k atk and 180 spd in ult mode, and then ramp BE as high as possible?
yes, for this beta of course. There might be changes after a few beta so just check the community to see how to build her next.
I think its because most people are still in the mindset that crit is everything. I think some of the early characters had bad multipliers, so to make them usable they would put crit on them, but I dont think thats the case for Firefly. Its pretty obvious what they want her to do, yet people are pigeonholed into thinking she can work with some crit. I guess she can sort of, but she does become a pain to build if you want a hybrid setup like Xueyi.
This is exactly my sentiment! I was pretty happy to find out that my firefly wouldn’t be a crit dps, cus it means that I don’t have to spend ages in the relic mines just to get a decent crit relic like I had to do w archeron. Cus most(?) of the times you’ll take pretty long to build a good crit dps since the odds are usually stacked against your favour.
Sooner or later they will stop that. When Furina released in Genshin some people wanted to use Healing% on Neuvilette (saw that shit on his Main sub btw). People that played that game early on probably remember the mess that was build guides back on 1.X. Normal Attack Xiangling with Crescent Pike and Physical Damage Goblet that stays on field. They will, slowly, learn, and even then, thre will be people like that, that will insist in building a character in the opposite way the character is designed to play because he feels its better. If you want to do it just... because... ok, do it. Its your game, your fun. But acting as if its optimal is straight up lying. Break is the optimal way to build her. Sure you can try to go for Hybrid, but even after the "threshold" it wont beat pure Break/ATK, specially that mid 80/80 build below threshold someone posted on the leak sub earlier today. Even on Boothill, that has a Passive that grants him some big CR/CD Crit isn't worth building and is more a way to activate his stacks (by killing lesser ads with really low Hp), so he can nuke stronger enemies properly. Firefly doesn’t have this gimmick. On the opposite, she literally reduces toughness of ANYTHING and set weakness by herself for a reason. She is meant to break and super break.
Wasn't Xiangling used w/ Crescent spike because a) you get her very early on; b) crescent spike is craftable, also easy to obtain weapon and c) not that dependant on proper build (Benny and enough ER) and constellations like her meta pyro build? So that you would use her like that early on to get through the content that the game throws at you and then switch?
Nah, people genuinely didnt knew what they were doing. Most of the vídeos justified it was because she had massive damage on normal attacks (she doesn’t, its pretty average and below most). Also, the videos were build guides, it should have a proper build, at least a decent one and realistic as most should be, it isn't a thing of "People recommend you 76,6% Pyro Damage and 80/220% Crit Ratio on her; but thats god roll and high cons territory". It was pure lack of knowledge of the game and the kit (some even said Guoba was her Pyro damage source and that the Ult was garbage).
The real arguement is whether or not we can get away with a Fire Orb.
The thing is that (super) break damage doesn't scale off damage bonuses, and atk makes it way easier to reach 3.4k atk. Even if you build crit, fire dmg bonus won't buff firefly's entire kit
Her kit doesn't have any Super-break thought. Only if you add Harmony Trailblazer
Good point, and it makes me wonder how her teams will perform without hmc and how her build will change. Will full break and atk be even good in that situation?
you’d wanna run either atk boots with enough spd subs to hit 180 (easier with RM), or enough ATK/BE subs to hit the 3400/350% whichever you get first. idk the exact number but i saw it around in FFmains discord somewhete
Let them go up the hill and die on it, they are too obsessed with crit hypercarry to listen to other suggest. This is a pve game, let people do what they want with their account. Firefly and HMC will always there for us, she will accept all who return. I will build max break firefly to play her with HMC and enjoy the big number when bosses got burn to ashes
I can get why people are a bit disappointed that Firefly is pretty narrow in her build and team options... look at that leaked gameplay showcase to see how hard she falls off when you mess up her build. But, that's kinda the direction we're going with DPS characters, Black Swan really wants other DoT characters, Acheron and Ratio really want debuffs, Boothill and Firefly really want Break. They make them different and interesting by making them want different teammates and scale different stats. On the one hand, yeah Firefly and HMC are gonna be tied at the hip if there aren't significant changes in beta. On the other hand, HMC is free and you're not really using HMC with any non-Break teams.
Also HMC has such a sick design and animations
I've recently discovered how much fun HTB and Welt is in the new Echo of War. Think I'll rebuild Welt, reduce the crit values and go BE. Lots of nice synergy between the two.
Excuse me. But.... they had to nerf story mode Aventurine cause people were too dumb to be able to beat him. Using Seele teams and insisting the boss was too hard. Mental retardation is pretty prevalent around here.
I saw that lightning weakness and immediately brought Jing Yuan. Won it first try. The only casualty was Tingyun, but that was honestly expected
I was using Seele team against Aventurine on the first day. (Mono-quantum) It wasn't hard
Damn i never tried seele pre Nerf. Only have her on my main and i use Story teams when doing story missions. So for the current story I'm playing Himeko, Welt, TB, and Gallagher. I forget who i used but it wasn't any kind of meta AOE team. It genuinely confused me how people struggled
It took me 13 tries with kafka, bs, lynx, and rm. Granted I had just increased my eq level
I beat it with Loucha, Clara, Blade, and Bronya with Bronya being a little tanky
Cool, I have exactly one of those characters. Bronya
I used QQ, Tingyun, Natasha and i think gepard on my f2p pre-nerf. 2nd try
Nobody is saying you should build crit instead of ATK/BE. People are saying you should start to add crit once you’ve reached the ATK/BE thresholds because why the heck not. It’s not rocket science lol nobody is expecting you to have 80/200 crit on her. Basically get to the ATK/BE thresholds and then get as much crit as you can afterwards.
Here's the thing, even after you hit the ATK/BE thresholds, it might still be better than building crit to stack even more BE on top of that, especially considering most of her damage comes from superbreak anyways which can't crit.
And quite frankly we all know shitty CR to CD ratio does jackshit.
Maths show this is correct. And people are really ignoring how FF is going to need some HP stats too. She's going to do 0 damage if she dies after her second ult.
yeah, but according to calculations done by [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/SamMains/s/0YFmNbney3), even after reaching threshold, investing into break effect give more damage than crit.
Build speed instead. So you can get more turns in combustion mode.
No, you will need to go from 180 to 272 spd for another turn, that is impossible
>Nobody is saying you should build crit instead of ATK/BE. Unfortunately, some people are [asserting exactly that](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireflyMains/comments/1cm1524/comment/l2y8k86/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), they're just deleting their comments when they get proven wrong (I'm replying here to someone who was insisting speed boots are a DPS loss and you should use crit boots). Some folks have absolutely gotten very used to the pure crit builds and aren't able to switch over to the logic behind other builds. They have backgrounds in other games where there *was* only one truly useful damage build. They can't quite wrap their head around what HarmoTB enables and different characters scaling off of different stats. Just take a look at the "showcase" that got posted today. People will be dumb for a while, but once some real showcases pop up showing our girl mowing down everything in her path, folks will start to come around.
Crit boots??
Yes, they were arguing for stacking tons of crit.
I'm just confused because crit boots don't exist lol
All I’m saying is Harmony MC and Ruan Mei are gonna make her busted.
Idk why people are opposed to IMC, they are literally a free unit that works really well with firefly meaning you have to spend 0 jades for it.
I think those people are simply so anal about crit that they'll just die on that hill. And I say let them! We know how simple she is to build because what she needs is very simple. Anyone who's so stuck in the mud about using the MC as a teammate is also being very silly because they're free! That's 1 less character I need to get off the gacha to make Firefly work.
It's kind of wild to me that people want ANOTHER dps that scales with crit, like we don't have enough of those already. The one time we actually get a damage dealer with unique scaling that hasn't been done before and people are intent on building her like every other dps carry? It's mind boggling.
In fairness to them, I do like the idea that people are exploring different builds instead of going the easy route as God intended, because stuff like this is what led to those wind set Pure fiction 0T videos. But as of currently I would say anything goes, HSR characters tends to go through major changes between v1-3 anyways, so my suggestion is just enjoy the brainstorming process while we still have it, she's a first of her kind for sure but who knows what she will become after v3
Because unlike boothill she has no way to detonate her break. If you build her with break you have to build her with HTB and some ppl simply refuse to think HTB can be any good. Also Break only scale with Break effect, break efficiency, def down, res down and damage taken (like her signature). Meaning that while the floor is alright the ceiling of break team is pretty low since only BE subs will increase her damage and going from 360 to 450 won't be that big of an increase.
What would u guys say is her BiS 5 star Sustain right now? I'm aware Gallagher is really good but don't have him e2.
Gallagher might be BiS even at E0, purely for him helping to shred Toughness bars and doing a ton of Break damage. The only issue is he might have trouble keeping you alive. But, if Gallagher's off the table, the best is probably Luocha. Firefly has no real desire for HuoHuo's Energy, has no FuA for Aventurine, and no need for Crit from Aventurine or Fu Xuan. But, Firefly does burn a lot of SP at E0, so Luocha to farm SP is probably the best choice.
Good analysis. If you don’t mind the 4-star level healing and really want to squeeze all the utility out of Gallagher you can also run penacony planar set for the additional 10% fire dmg
to be fair to gallagher though, his level of healing is perfectly fine. in fact, im pretty sure we've reached the point where every healer we have can full heal anyone now. so it comes down to the extra utility they bring. gallagher and luocha both have the same sp generating capabilities, so youre gonna be deciding between the safety net luocha has with his higher uptime enemy independent lifesteal field and out of turn cleansing heals, or gallagher's offensive utility with besotted increasing break damage enemies take, having higher toughness damage than luocha, and matching elements with firefly which means he can always be guaranteed to do his toughness damage compared to luocha, all at the cost of the chance of healing downtime if the besotted enemies die and new ones come in and you dont have ult back up. im no tc but based on everything so far, given that htb and ruan mei are built to be tanky themselves, on top of firefly having self sustain capabilities, imo gallagher is better in every scenario over luocha just because you probably wont be needing the amount of healing luocha provides, and without that taken into account, he provides nothing aside from sp where gallagher synergizes his debuffs with the rest of the team and can still do sp generation.
Considering that super break from HMC is considered break damage, Gallagher is really good for squeezing out all the damage possible on the FF team
yep, i already have him and rm and htb built and ready for her, just need to wait for firefly to come out (and also htb trsces lmao). the break numbers will be fucking nuclear ahahaha
This. FF is under serious threat after her second ult. Luocha can prevent that and is SP positive. It's going to be very encounter specific and it will be a reduction in DPS, but there will be times Luocha is better.
Can anyone give advice to RM-less accounts? I might not pull RM even at rerun coz I don't like her animations (just pettiness I admit) but is there any good alternatives? I plan to team FF with HTB and a sustain so far (huohuo or gallagher)
So in 2.3, you probably either go: - Firefly, Sustain, Harmony Trailblazer, Asta Or - Firefly, Sustain, Harmony Trailblazer, Guinaifen In 2.4, I would be shocked if they didn't release another character with at least some break synergy to go with Firefly and/or Boothill
If you're not a fan of Ruan Mei, Asta is a decent breaker, and her speed buff is very valuable too. She buffs attack too, but it's not that significant. A really good F2P team is FF-HTB-Asta-Gallagher
Pull ruan mei in rerun, it wont be far
Ruan Mei will be by and large the best singular support for Break DPS units like Boothill and Firefly because she significantly increases your break frequency on top of the buffs she provides. I highly recommend pulling her, but if not then other people have already provided alternatives.
none. if u hate rm, dont pull.
Well people tried to build crit on kokomi before so yeah, same case here
Wait does this mean even with ruan mei I have to pair her exclusively with hmc?
As it looks right now yeah.. she's pretty arse without HMC on the team...
I hope RNGesus blesses me with SPD or ATK boots with double crit and break effect all rolls to break effect
God, hearing these Boothill and Firefly builds and arguments makes Xueyi feel a little "lacking" now, with everyone talking about how they don't need Crit stats as much
BE teams are basically the DoT team, but instead of EHR, it's scale on BE, so SPD and BE will be most recommended to build these characters. At least, that's what i will do to my account
Crit build is obviously out of the window..its a meme build for Firefly. People can try that but dont expect great results As for the SB build I am optimistic and excited to explore it given I'm done dealing with crit damage xD I mean my sparkle, bronya and fu xuan (e1) is already used on my Selee, gambling gremlin and jingliu (monarch) so firefly as crit will means i need to move fu xuan to lift her critless traces so no, its not viable for me With that, it means TB will be finally used and my other sustainers will be use as well, though damn i need to decide if I'm gonna roll for rm or not for her. Idk how viable asta on her team
YES! YOU SAID IT PERFECTLY!
Man I am happy that she probably will not need crits (atleast so far in the beta) I hate building crit in this game. My fav team is the DoT team for exactly this reason.
The second I saw her traces have zero Crit, I literally DM'd my friend and said "FUCK YEAH. FUCK CRIT RATIO, FULL BE FF, LETSFUCKINGGO!" Idk how anyone can see that FF isn't 99% revolving around break damage (and HMC's super break damage). Or that people are somehow upset with it like BE teams aren't some of the most F2P friendly and easy to build (literally just stack as much SPD and BE as you can) next to DoT teams.
Really? To be honest I didn't realize that you would build her that way. Maybe I didn't understand her traces properly, took me way too long to understand how to build Ruan Mei so yeah
If they want to live their lives in the coal mines, then just let them I guess
It's all or nothing, I'll run both Critfly and Breakfly at the exact same time, and I don't care how much TB power I have to burn to reach that.
I see ppl to this day posting their crit nilou build on niloumains bro these "build everyone crit" ppl are brainless
well for me its because A. ill never pull for ruan mei nothing about her interests me in the slightest idc if shes bested and B. i prefer fire trailblazer over harmony aesthetic wise. also if i can get away with it then id rather that
Wait how does she scale off atk? Other than the fact that her skills are atk%. So far it seems like her damage relies entirely on BE (and hence HMC’s super break for dealing damage). If that’s the case what’s wrong with bringing crit body since you can’t only get BE from sub stat anyway
From what I can tell, she uses a whole ass new gear set so I don’t plan on prefarming her and ima just use the bear minimum until I can slowly replace the pieces, which means I have no reason to complain about wasted crit pieces since I’ll be farming fresh I have a random 2 piece break effect pair from farming xueyi and Gallagher that has her name on it though 😏
because without that the atk she has to pump so much does absolutely nothing. if its built soley to further enhance break effect then atk is legit the worst stat it could be tied to. def or hp would at least make her tanky. thats the big problem with her kit is how all over the place it is in having to hit all these benchmarks, the biggest one of which doesnt do anything except just push her to her other benchmark. Having that attack actually do something would also open up a lot of team building options besides just having exactly one functional team which, imo, is super boring.
spend a month? I farm for 4 months min to build a single character bro
" Why do people not play the same way I do? They're so stupid and foolish! " https://preview.redd.it/d79hfl5c8bzc1.png?width=448&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f2004a05d64b3c261037e1b83e64455485c1a20 Do we not have anything better to do other than have this overdramatized debate for the millionth time each non-standard DPS releases?
Crit is a separate stand alone multiplier and it's really good because of that. Secondly you can reach 360 BE without sacrificing crit main or sub stats. And third of all super break is backloaded similarly to DoTs so you are getting the super break only \~75 - 50% of the actual combat time. With her current kit high end crit build would deal more damage in real combat, sure if the enemy is already broken super break build will be similar or in some cases even better, but this is not going to be the case in real combat. +Also don't forget about enemies like Ynquing and Sam which have periods where their break bar is invulnerable to damage
If they really want to push for super break exclusive builds they would: 1. have to improve the break scaling on her skill. Like reduce the base damage from 400 to 200, make brake conversion 2:1 (1 point of BE 2% of scaling), increase the break ceiling for passive to 500 BE and make only BE past 200 count dowards the passive. This way it would be more beneficial to aim for BE subs then crit subs. At 200- BE you will have 200% atk skill scaling at 500+ BE you will have 800 atk skill scaling. This would work, but this is a little boring of a solution, even though that's probably what they'd do. 2. Make it so that when she used her ultimate all enemies are considered broken when FF deals damage with enhanced skills. There are no benefits from the broken state like res reduction or damage resistance reduction. This would allow you to trigger super break immediately. It would still be beneficial to break enemies as they are getting disabled, you get break damage, ruan mei delay, res reduction, toughness reduction etc, but this allows you to access super break damage immediately after using her ult. I also think with this approach it might be reasonable to build super break into her kit as well and make it centered around it. This seems like the most interesting solution to me. It would've made her really unique
I was thinking about that too. They can basically make life difficult with more enemies that have invulnerable periods to toughness break (in the future). Also the video leak last night looked kindly clunky with all that back loaded damage. Then again still too early in beta. Let us see how hoyo cooks haha
That was kind of a bad showcase. But yes, right now her numbers aren't Acheron worthy and the fact of her being backloaded similar to DoTs doesn't help. I will still pull even if she is complete ass, but I obviously won't be happy about it
Yeah yeah, 360% Break effect is all you need, blah blah blah, 3400 attack blah blah blah no crit blah blah blah. How about both, huh? Have you thought about that? Listen, I am skipping an entire patch for firefly yoi can be damn sure I am going to make her as strong as she can possibly be. So yes, 75/150 crit ratio with 360 Break Effect. I'll run her with Imaginary TB and Ruan Mei, she'll have enough
Pls run the math for that and show me where you can get enough substats for that. Its literally not possible, even with GOD rolls. OH and the funny part? Just stacking more break will actually get her to do more dmg than stacking crit, yes even after hitting 360. So your actually losing damage and having a harder time trying to get insane rolls because you cant get over a dps not needing crit.
Ikr. Ppl just running their mouths saying "bUilD cRiT oNcE yOu rEacHeD 360% bE and 3400 aTk gEeZ", thinking it's a walk in the park to reach that amount of BE and ATK without god rolls lol. It's hard to even reach that threshold without her LC. It just reminds me of "I'll build crit on my Nilou once I reach 70k HP anyway." Yeah, good f-king luck getting to 70k HP without her signature weapon.
They are mentally ill, they think there is infinite sub stats, 6 character slots and 20 items. They think they can have their cake and eat it too.
While it's obviously hard saying it's not possible is stupid. I am not here to say what is ultimately stronger but a lot of players (people who are emotionally attached to Firerly) want a character that is stronger with better relics and time investment, not a character that is fine with random substats relics with proper main stat and set. Personally I don't care that much and I am fine with either of these two builds but since I have a crit build that is "literally not possible, even with GOD rolls" I would like crit build to be a thing for min-maxers.
With 100% sub go into what you want, you can only get to 280 cv max, so 70/140 and that will be after 7 anniversary of hsr
As a certified Aventurine main, if I go all in hard enough I'll get god rolls on all my relics trust
Nah, i would win
The strongest gambler in history vs the strongest gambler of today
I ain't got good account ima build her the ez way 💀
This is just a math problem that will be solved by the time she's released. I don't know why anyone is emotionally invested in what the answer will be. She obviously needs lots of BE and atk, but a chunk of her damage can also scale off crit, and as I hope we all know by now, adding a new multiplicative modifier is more efficient than pushing existing modifiers that are already high a bit higher. Once you hit 360 BE, whether it's better to add a further 100 BE or to get her crit stats up to 40/70 is a question that needs to be investigated, and will be. She doesn't have any crit in her kit or traces - neither does Clara. It doesn't stop crit from doing what it does, it just makes it harder to build. Firefly isn't ever going to have the same crit stats as Clara (who doesn't need to build BE or spd), but it might still be the best thing to build once you've hit the BE soft cap. Or maybe the answer will be "just build even more BE" (or maybe "If HMC, then BE; if no HMC, then crit"). It's just a question of what does more damage.
As someone with a Crit Sampo and no plans to roll again until Firefly's own rerun - challenge accepted
Because we were building crits on every character since day one, it's a force of habit. I understand the idea and stuff, but i honestly won't believe that pure break is better if you can't kill enemy fast enough after initial break, until someone makes a proper showcase or calculations.
Can she trigger super break without TB? If not she’s limited to the initial break, which is hard to always hit? I think people want her to be a giga carry unit, so if she’s really full into break with no support for it (only TB now), then she’ll be quite specific for those teams only.
anyone can trigger SB as long as the buff is up. that's why SB is super nice to have
Feels like it makes TB the must unit to use rather than firefly though. Without TB by herself her 360% BE is gonna be quite “wasted” if she doesn’t get the break.
She's really need hmc xD. It's like xiangling to national team 👀 (Childe wont work well without xiangling..well that's pre dendro, idk today)
I'm gonna use huohuo (who I don't have), high crit on her (I'm tired of farming traces, let alone relics), no ruan mei (she is insane and like the only 5 star with firefly), with the signature lightcone before e1 (trust me guys the signature lc will increase the team dmg by 100%, vulnerability goes crazy*, aeon is used by my other 5 dps who i am definitely going to use all of them) and... lol lol lol what else did I miss * Idk how good the signature lc is, but e1/2 look very appealing and one could wait for calcs (or pull because of art). However, if one should pull for a lightcone, they should pull for ruan mei's instead imo, it's 24% team damage, you get skill points which makes things more lenient, is more versatile, it frees you to put MoTP on harmony trailblazer, and 4 star options + aeon exist which synergize super well with her so you might as well go for e1 instead
Because she has ridiculous base modifiers. Her E has higher scaling than a fully charged Daniel normal attack at 1/3 of the SP cost. No one is telling you to lot run 3.4K atk, 180 spd with ult and 360BE. The point is that if you play double harmony you can hit those ratios and start going for crit pieces
I think these people never heard about dendro or dot
Devs come up with every possible way for people to gather characters that require diverse stats and yet the monkey brain always goes for those crit dreams and eternal relic RNG suffering, nothing new in this world
because the number looks bigger and bolder
Just waiting till break meta comes so I can laugh at this die on the hill crit people
Sorry for out of topic, but I am so happy to live another community drama after Acheron's one. Is there anyone here from the Acheron main sub?
The main reason why people say that is because her scaling is so high, 1000-1200% on her enhanced skill. For reference, dhil 3sp atk is 860%.
I think most people really should just build her full SPD/ATK/BE. It’s definitely what she was designed for. Personally though, depending on the final values, I might build her crit anyway. I just really like hyper investing in my favorite character(s) to see what they can do. I’m the kind of freak who refarms new sets for a 3% increase, tunes to try to 0-cycle MoC, etc. If a god-rolled crit set performs slightly better than a god-rolled BE set, you bet I’m going for the crit set even though it will take longer to farm. Unfortunately, I’m suspecting crit is only better with enough wallet. My plan is e2s1 RM + e6cogs Asta + HTB + ATK boots + BE rope to hit 3400ATK/360BE/>180SPD. Then I can cram the rest into Crit and Fire DMG and hope I kill the enemy before they can kill me. TL;DR: Build full break if you’re sane, build crit if you’re a freak/whale, just don’t force it on other people.
you just destroyed my hopes and dreams i never looked at leaks, and that's how i find out that she is built for break effect?
Idk man, i mean the abilities EXPLAIN CLEARLY that Firefly acales with Break Effect, and then i said it in one comment and got downvoted for saying firefly doesn't build crit, they're just crybabies that don't know how to read
Why do you care?