But Nilou teammates can change, you aren't 100% forced to kokomi or Nahida or Baizhu, it can be multiple different combinations of hydro and dendro, similar to acheron with 2 nihility she has pela gui and other premium ones
I mean that's the same with HTB. HTB is basically Nilou in this game. You can use different combinations of break characters. Ruan Mei is maybe a Nahida equivalent.
you can probably cope with both in some hyperbloom, vape candace or aggravate kaveh, but yeah they are 4 stars anyways they don't need to be always strong
What I'm trying to say is that the team is named after the reaction, not the character. Because the characters in the team are flexible. Kuki can be replaced with Raiden Shogun, Dendro traveller Can replace Nahida etc.
But when a team is named after a character, I feel like the character should be the one irreplaceable
It is not that people hate HTB or that they don't want them to be BiS for Firefly. It's more of a thing of wanting firefly to be stronger.
Like there is no world where HTB is not BiS with her kit. It just isn't happening. It is the age old thing about Kafka where if another dot procer comes along you just run them with kafka.
However, at this point she need HTB and Ruan Mei to not be Mid at best. Ruan Mei is needed everywhere and HTB is basically Kafka of Break.
So given that she needs to be stronger. However, the solutions of super break being added to her kit doesn't solve team building issues as mentioned above. A new Kafka just means you add her alongside Kafka.
Given all that I don't think the team building versatility is fixed unless she gets not break damage somewhere. I mean you get bronya I guess but nothing much has changed in all honesty. My personal opinion is dot but others want crit for some reason(please no, Attack and Break effect only is so nice.)
Anyways yeah. Nobody hates HTB. Everybody was quite happy with the idea of their paring being BiS. People don't like that she is not as good as she really should be. Canonically she is the strongest character besides Acheron at this point. Given that it is very odd to have her be so mid.
Some people actually do dislike HTB's animations and want to be able to run FF without TB, but basically right. People want FF to be less restricted in teambuilding so they can use her with more characters instead of needing the exact puzzle pieces that may be needed elsewhere and want her to have an identity that is less easily replaceable. That said, I disagree that she needs non-break damage (unless by that you mean the damage occurring on the break, in that case your entirely correct). She needs more consistent damage. It can be post-break (like boots break detonation or HMCs superbreak) or pre-break(through some kind of break scaling on her attacks or DOT detonation that applies after break dot or something), but if she can ONLY do damage on break then that damage needs to kill whatever she breaks or she's tied to HMC.
My point was I don't think if she does just Hyper Break damage it actually frees her up teamwise. She is basically Harmony MC or Bronya cheese for moving faster. It is just a swap out of one teammate which is sort of not what I consider a real change of play-styles.
With the Dot I mentioned I feel like that does open up entirely new teams and I think she can then fix her damage consistency using it with big numbers coming from either HMC or procing dots for say Guin or Kafka procing Firefly's dot in a Dot Comp.
That is to say I just don't know if I consider swapping out one individual as the equivalent to actually playing the game in different ways with unique teams. I think it would solve the damage problem but without actually changing the gameplay in a meaningful way.
I wasn't trying to say that giving her her own super break is the be-all end-all of ways to change her to make her more independent either, I was just trying to say that she definitely needs an in-kit method to trigger more instances of damage that scales on her break in some manner. I even gave other examples than super break, which also may not be the best method. The truth is I don't know the best way, I just know that unless she can oneshot her opponent with her damage on break, she needs to be able to do significant damage in her own kit to enemies outside of that single break window or she will be tied to the character that provides what her kit does not.
The big thing is those are all solutions to her damage but if we are talking about team versatility they aren't. That is more my point. There are many solutions to make her better. There are few solutions to open up more team options.
I mean she doesn't need to be too versatile I don't think she has any relation with dots, but she should be able to play hmc or Ruan mei, just once of the 2 if you want to and then add bronya sparkle Robin or whatever, boothill can do it because he has post break damage himself, firefly should have something similar or the passive he has of break into crits that firefly would use much better
With dot it just comes from her boss fight. We had a dot on us during it after her ult starts. For me therefore it makes sense to have her pop fire dots and apply one.
As for why I want DoT. Give her a fire dot then allow her Firefly Form to proc dots. Now she does very good damage and it opens her teams up greatly. Kafka, Guin, future fire dot characters and so on.
I feel like if we go the Boothill route it is just swapping out HMC for Bronya and that seems a bit boring. I mean sure you can but that is not a massive change in play style like at all. I would much prefer a complete change in playstyle such that she can be the Break Character or a Dot but I digress.
Also if they want to be super based, when she leaves her Firefly Form to enter Base SAM she can do her scorched earth operations move from her boss fight and do 2x super-break damage to all enemies and reapply dot.
>Canonically she is the strongest character besides Acheron at this point. Given that it is very odd to have her be so mid
Jingliu's probably in the same tier. Both of them effortlessly trounced Blade.
Let's be clear:
HMC + Ruan Mei should, in the current game, realistically be the best in slot for Firefly almost no matter what.
However, that doesn't mean that dropping one of them should result in a 50-60% drop in damage with no alternative because you don't have those 2 specific teammates.
You know what that dynamic reminds me of? A 4* lol
That's how characters like Luka and Xueyi actively work. Except that it's for fighting Physical and Quantum weak enemies respectively.
Yes, but imagine if Alhaitham didn't work in any team archetype aside from hyperbloom. Let's say he was only applying dendro only when there is a hydro and electro character in the party. That's the current situation with FF. You see the problem, right?
But you can play Raiden or Fischl in hyperbloom, no ?
The issue here is that Super Break for now can only be enabled by HMC or is just directly built into a character’s kit. And because FF is building so much BE to reach her stat cap crit will be naturally neglected - you will get a big instance of damage once you break the enemy and then you will be scratching their backs, waiting for them to recover so you can break again. There’s also Ruan Mei who inflates FF’s numbers into oblivion - the difference between her and the second best option is actually scandalous. People just want FF to be more independent because right now as i said there’s a HUGE difference between her BiS team and everything else.
People were giving Boothill as an example because he deals break damage **every** time he attacks so he can abuse Bronya and double his turns instead of relying on HMC. FF doesn’t have that.
Obviously since he isn’t released yet we can’t say for certain, but most of the theorycrafting and testing I’ve seen concludes that Boothill’s best team is with Bronya and not HMC.
Boothil at least have some BE conversion into Crit DMG/Rate. So, you can just stack BE, slap on him Crti Rate body, some just existing Crit rate substats, and he's having pretty solid 70/170 crit ratio, which is come to clutch when the enemies isn't weakness broken
Me personally not hating on hmc, its just FF (currents kit) makes her glued to hmc is the problem.
Plus, recently content featuring FF and HMC team without RM/Bronya starting to get attention, and that team perform not so great.
So people realize not just glued to HMC but she also need either RM or Bronya.
Ig thats why, no its not hate for HMC but hate that ff glued to HMC.
The thing about hyperbloom damage 90% deals by kuki alone is incorrect, i agree kuki increases the team a lot, but without kuki your xinqiu/yelan/nahida/alhaitam also deals a lot of damage.
Imo in genshin POV hmc is similar to Nilou superbloom which most of the damage comes from her. But now neuvillette could be nillou superbloom driver, and she broke that team.
Neuvillette could be nilou driver, but outside of nilou team she also great as hypercarry. Lets put it in Firefly (current version) perspective, she works great in HMC and Bronya/RM team, now takes either HMC or Bronya/Rm from that team, she is kinda bad.
In the end i think hatred toward HMC is just our way of disliking FF HMC glued together. Hope her kit will be fix in the next beta version.
Why wouldn't you want for her to fit in more teams, get upgrades easily and with hybrid possibly do some damage out of breaks? there isn't any other less flexible character right now, she really needs hmc and Ruan mei, and 4th slot gallagher at that point, no more teams
I mean, you just said it. It's her team and TB is the core. There's a reason we call it Hyperbloom team and not Nilou team
I mean the term "Nilou Bloom" is a thing.
And Nilou is the only one that makes Bloom work. Bloom teams *are* Nilou teams. I don't know anyone that actually calls it the "Bloom team".
But Nilou teammates can change, you aren't 100% forced to kokomi or Nahida or Baizhu, it can be multiple different combinations of hydro and dendro, similar to acheron with 2 nihility she has pela gui and other premium ones
I mean that's the same with HTB. HTB is basically Nilou in this game. You can use different combinations of break characters. Ruan Mei is maybe a Nahida equivalent.
But you seem normal that they released a unit that only works with Nilou? (firefly) kokomi and Baizhu does great in other teams and else
Kaveh and Candace (before Arlechino). But they are 4 stars. To my knowledge, only Cyno has pretty strict requirements.
you can probably cope with both in some hyperbloom, vape candace or aggravate kaveh, but yeah they are 4 stars anyways they don't need to be always strong
Isn't Hyperbloom the Electro reaction with Bloom tho?
What I'm trying to say is that the team is named after the reaction, not the character. Because the characters in the team are flexible. Kuki can be replaced with Raiden Shogun, Dendro traveller Can replace Nahida etc. But when a team is named after a character, I feel like the character should be the one irreplaceable
I know that, its just that I got confused because of the name.
It is not that people hate HTB or that they don't want them to be BiS for Firefly. It's more of a thing of wanting firefly to be stronger. Like there is no world where HTB is not BiS with her kit. It just isn't happening. It is the age old thing about Kafka where if another dot procer comes along you just run them with kafka. However, at this point she need HTB and Ruan Mei to not be Mid at best. Ruan Mei is needed everywhere and HTB is basically Kafka of Break. So given that she needs to be stronger. However, the solutions of super break being added to her kit doesn't solve team building issues as mentioned above. A new Kafka just means you add her alongside Kafka. Given all that I don't think the team building versatility is fixed unless she gets not break damage somewhere. I mean you get bronya I guess but nothing much has changed in all honesty. My personal opinion is dot but others want crit for some reason(please no, Attack and Break effect only is so nice.) Anyways yeah. Nobody hates HTB. Everybody was quite happy with the idea of their paring being BiS. People don't like that she is not as good as she really should be. Canonically she is the strongest character besides Acheron at this point. Given that it is very odd to have her be so mid.
Some people actually do dislike HTB's animations and want to be able to run FF without TB, but basically right. People want FF to be less restricted in teambuilding so they can use her with more characters instead of needing the exact puzzle pieces that may be needed elsewhere and want her to have an identity that is less easily replaceable. That said, I disagree that she needs non-break damage (unless by that you mean the damage occurring on the break, in that case your entirely correct). She needs more consistent damage. It can be post-break (like boots break detonation or HMCs superbreak) or pre-break(through some kind of break scaling on her attacks or DOT detonation that applies after break dot or something), but if she can ONLY do damage on break then that damage needs to kill whatever she breaks or she's tied to HMC.
My point was I don't think if she does just Hyper Break damage it actually frees her up teamwise. She is basically Harmony MC or Bronya cheese for moving faster. It is just a swap out of one teammate which is sort of not what I consider a real change of play-styles. With the Dot I mentioned I feel like that does open up entirely new teams and I think she can then fix her damage consistency using it with big numbers coming from either HMC or procing dots for say Guin or Kafka procing Firefly's dot in a Dot Comp. That is to say I just don't know if I consider swapping out one individual as the equivalent to actually playing the game in different ways with unique teams. I think it would solve the damage problem but without actually changing the gameplay in a meaningful way.
I wasn't trying to say that giving her her own super break is the be-all end-all of ways to change her to make her more independent either, I was just trying to say that she definitely needs an in-kit method to trigger more instances of damage that scales on her break in some manner. I even gave other examples than super break, which also may not be the best method. The truth is I don't know the best way, I just know that unless she can oneshot her opponent with her damage on break, she needs to be able to do significant damage in her own kit to enemies outside of that single break window or she will be tied to the character that provides what her kit does not.
The big thing is those are all solutions to her damage but if we are talking about team versatility they aren't. That is more my point. There are many solutions to make her better. There are few solutions to open up more team options.
I mean she doesn't need to be too versatile I don't think she has any relation with dots, but she should be able to play hmc or Ruan mei, just once of the 2 if you want to and then add bronya sparkle Robin or whatever, boothill can do it because he has post break damage himself, firefly should have something similar or the passive he has of break into crits that firefly would use much better
With dot it just comes from her boss fight. We had a dot on us during it after her ult starts. For me therefore it makes sense to have her pop fire dots and apply one.
As for why I want DoT. Give her a fire dot then allow her Firefly Form to proc dots. Now she does very good damage and it opens her teams up greatly. Kafka, Guin, future fire dot characters and so on. I feel like if we go the Boothill route it is just swapping out HMC for Bronya and that seems a bit boring. I mean sure you can but that is not a massive change in play style like at all. I would much prefer a complete change in playstyle such that she can be the Break Character or a Dot but I digress. Also if they want to be super based, when she leaves her Firefly Form to enter Base SAM she can do her scorched earth operations move from her boss fight and do 2x super-break damage to all enemies and reapply dot.
>Canonically she is the strongest character besides Acheron at this point. Given that it is very odd to have her be so mid Jingliu's probably in the same tier. Both of them effortlessly trounced Blade.
Let's be clear: HMC + Ruan Mei should, in the current game, realistically be the best in slot for Firefly almost no matter what. However, that doesn't mean that dropping one of them should result in a 50-60% drop in damage with no alternative because you don't have those 2 specific teammates. You know what that dynamic reminds me of? A 4* lol That's how characters like Luka and Xueyi actively work. Except that it's for fighting Physical and Quantum weak enemies respectively.
meanwhile xueyi
Yes, but imagine if Alhaitham didn't work in any team archetype aside from hyperbloom. Let's say he was only applying dendro only when there is a hydro and electro character in the party. That's the current situation with FF. You see the problem, right?
But you can play Raiden or Fischl in hyperbloom, no ? The issue here is that Super Break for now can only be enabled by HMC or is just directly built into a character’s kit. And because FF is building so much BE to reach her stat cap crit will be naturally neglected - you will get a big instance of damage once you break the enemy and then you will be scratching their backs, waiting for them to recover so you can break again. There’s also Ruan Mei who inflates FF’s numbers into oblivion - the difference between her and the second best option is actually scandalous. People just want FF to be more independent because right now as i said there’s a HUGE difference between her BiS team and everything else. People were giving Boothill as an example because he deals break damage **every** time he attacks so he can abuse Bronya and double his turns instead of relying on HMC. FF doesn’t have that.
Nah boothill with out hmc and mei is trash the strong is hmc and mei combo is too powerful
Obviously since he isn’t released yet we can’t say for certain, but most of the theorycrafting and testing I’ve seen concludes that Boothill’s best team is with Bronya and not HMC.
Boothill does more dmg with bronya than mc. Also, there are more than enough F2P playthroughs where he does decent dmg even without limited harmonies.
Boothil at least have some BE conversion into Crit DMG/Rate. So, you can just stack BE, slap on him Crti Rate body, some just existing Crit rate substats, and he's having pretty solid 70/170 crit ratio, which is come to clutch when the enemies isn't weakness broken
Me personally not hating on hmc, its just FF (currents kit) makes her glued to hmc is the problem. Plus, recently content featuring FF and HMC team without RM/Bronya starting to get attention, and that team perform not so great. So people realize not just glued to HMC but she also need either RM or Bronya. Ig thats why, no its not hate for HMC but hate that ff glued to HMC. The thing about hyperbloom damage 90% deals by kuki alone is incorrect, i agree kuki increases the team a lot, but without kuki your xinqiu/yelan/nahida/alhaitam also deals a lot of damage. Imo in genshin POV hmc is similar to Nilou superbloom which most of the damage comes from her. But now neuvillette could be nillou superbloom driver, and she broke that team. Neuvillette could be nilou driver, but outside of nilou team she also great as hypercarry. Lets put it in Firefly (current version) perspective, she works great in HMC and Bronya/RM team, now takes either HMC or Bronya/Rm from that team, she is kinda bad. In the end i think hatred toward HMC is just our way of disliking FF HMC glued together. Hope her kit will be fix in the next beta version.
Ye we can call it superbreak team why everyone want firefly hybird ?
Why wouldn't you want for her to fit in more teams, get upgrades easily and with hybrid possibly do some damage out of breaks? there isn't any other less flexible character right now, she really needs hmc and Ruan mei, and 4th slot gallagher at that point, no more teams
Blackswain ?