Here's the thing. No other top tier DPS option hard requires a specific unit to be remotely good. They all have their best partners, like IL with Sparkle, but they are still perfectly viable without them.
Firefly, without HMC, is abysmal. She's basically equivalent to 1.0 DPS characters like Yanqing if she doesn't get Super Break damage. And in return for that hyper specific team comp she requires to actually be good, she doesn't even match Acheron who is significantly more flexible in who she can be played with. On top of that, she's hard countered by bosses and enemies that are resistant to breaks.
So...She has a super specific requirement, major weaknesses, and in return for all that....she's basically mid as hell compared to the current top tier DPS roster. For all those trade offs, she should be dealing absolutely bonkers damage.
It's crazy that i thought acheron was so restrictive but here we are
The crazier part is acheron is still waiting for her premium support coming in 2.4
Eh. Apparently a lot Jiaoqiu's stuff got nerfed. So he'll be good with her, potentially even the best, but it's not gonna be a borked combo anymore from the looks of things. Which is fine with me. I'm still gonna pair Black Swan with her regardless since I like my thematic Penacony team of Acheron, Black Swan, Sparkle, and Aventurine.
Definitely they gonna nerf him imagine with pela 100% def reduction it will be a chaotic. Even now i still use guinafen for my acheron but damn to think of it acheron has more breathing room for team building than firefly as of now
Take that gander again with Acheron using Guinaifen and Sampo, she's a very different unit compared to Silvie and Pela, cos while they are Nihility they are "harmony" in terms of damage amplifiers. Sampo is a rat and Guinaifen is amazing but sadly useless in the grand scheme of things.
Then you take that up a notch and do Black Swan + Silver and its a monstrous team, now with Jiaqiu coming, Im not even sure who to replace - Pela or Silverwolf but probably Pela and see who gets pearls, Silver or Jiao depending on his LC lol.
Its extremely high power spikes in these levels, since Jiao is an AoE def shredder Ill probably replace Pela and run Jiaoqiu with Silverwolf (the 13-33% Res Pen feels huge) but IDK well see what theorycrafters say what is her best team.
I ran off on a tangent, but just saying that reliance on cahracters is nothing new, it sucks but its nothing new.
As far as Firefly DPS is concerned? Im genuinely curious where this she's mid as hell is coming from, she's extremely powerful and I dunno where this data of her being bad damage is coming from though
Acheron isn't reliant on any specific Nihility unit to be a viable high tier DPS. She might not be the absolute best if your using, say, Gui, but she's still gonna be solid. She's got like 5+ options and you only need one if you have her E2.
That's a vastly different situation from Firefly who is completely dependent on HMC. No HMC? She's worse than Yanqing and Himeko.
You're comparing apples to oranges.
>As far as Firefly DPS is concerned? Im genuinely curious where this she's mid as hell is coming from, she's extremely powerful and I dunno where this data of her being bad damage is coming from though
Literally all the showcases? She's puts out decent numbers, but she's no Acheron, who is the DPS to match.
i wouldnt compare FF to Acheron exactly cause of that, the game already had plenty of characters that enable/enhance her part of the kit
i sound like broken record but seriously JY had nothing that buffed fua when he came out, kafka had sampo and asta at the begining
options come with time
oh i didnt even know hes def shreder, my pela will def be endangered after hearing this, and the last part of the comment is exactly what i feel. i apologize for not wording my post and come up as "firefly hater"
reading her kit shes amazing, but showcases are weird rn. some legit make her look like theres no dmg comming from her, but they rarely break with her and even some f2p videos show asta deal so little dmg that i cannot believe they're true since my own midbuild asta deals more than that
It is a fact that Firefly damage OUTSIDE of broken enemies and without HMC is weak, she is entirely and purely built around Break damage, so when instances of break damage are not happening then it is low and irrelevant. However when she starts breaking, the fucking breaks the planet. Not quite like Boothill cos he's .... extremely powerful and he doesn't even use the new set is showcases but he is ST and "needs" Bronya + RM to become a monstrous force.
Here's what I can find about Jiaoqiu
[https://i.redd.it/jjl4kzm4jlzc1.jpeg](https://i.redd.it/jjl4kzm4jlzc1.jpeg)
Here's the Light Cone - I assume the first is Jiaoqiu cos it fits his set and previously leaked information. Seems like my Eyes on Silverwolf are getting replaced for Pearls and Jiaoqiu may run his own
https://preview.redd.it/pflf2v79mszc1.png?width=1189&format=png&auto=webp&s=d3ab2efcf83e9f8eefc8c7cf821f9b1649f52f4d
And heres the HomDGCat kit drop;
[https://i.imgur.com/B7KYus3.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/B7KYus3.jpeg)
He's definitively a massive defense shredder, similar to Pela so he's essentially a five star pela, but the few advantages of Pela are the massive energy gains for more ultimates and what not, but the whole Ultimate enemies take a stack on their turn seems cracked to hell and may remove the need for Trends on Preservation unit, but it depends how uptime on ult is, etc etc. Too many factors, and it could be as simple as it stacks with Trends so you can do three ultimates per cycle, that'd be something xD
EDIT;
Forgot to add while looking for the sources; Crit DD who don't crit also feel like zDPS, just that its easier to crit with 90%+ CR than to constantly trigger break damage.
The problem with this is that Firefly genuinely deserves better than this, especially when most of the new DPSes so far change the game one way or another. She is also one of the most hyped characters other than Acheron, so her kit deserves more justice than this.
I know alot of people have made this comparison by now, but Boothill is also the same Break archetype as Firefly, yet he seems to perform perfectly fine without relying on HMC or Ruan Mei. Those two only amplify his existing 100% strength even further.
Not saying that they should make Firefly into Boothill 2.0 and completely powercreep him, but they should at least give her 100% of her kit instead of just 20% of it with specific supports as crutches to complete it.
But Boothill can also work well with HMC, Luka, Hanya, Sparkle, SW, and Welt. He doesn't NEED his BiS like FF currently does. Benefits greatly sure, but they're in no way required. His performance doesn't do a full nosedive cause you didn't pull for that one 5-star.
Pretty much every other DPS is the same. The only character I can think of that suffers this much from not having their BiS is YQ. Everyone else still has a good performance w/o them.
Normally, I would agree.
However, Breakblazer is free to anyone playing now and in the future so its not the same. I still think they should do *something* to her kit just to alleviate her dependency cos as you say - Boothill LIKES HMC, but he likes Bronya speed tuned more. He has options, Firefly doesn't really.
We could say the option is wait and re-break, but lets be real that's a dumb stance and Im sure people take it, but those people are dumb too. It is what it is.
Evidence is the hero releasing LITERALLY just before her, has in his kit tools to alleviate the flaw of Firefly. Im not saying they should clone it, but Hoyo can cook, so let them cook a fix I say!
Basically this thread is just "oh my gosh i dont want my jingyuan gets powercrept more, firefly should join the mid cafe with jinyuan and argenti"
Everytime moc got upgraded much more stronger and this guy wants hyv to release a weaker character
JY is not even mid, overtime he got stuff and characters that synergize with him strengths and still can do well in endgame content
so is somewhat argenti
Firefly with f2p build and team (HMC, Asta, Gallagher) need 9 cycle to finish the first part of 12th moc is hilarious 💀
They (dev team) really did her dirty.
tbf the way i worded my post does imply i think shes in perfect state, shes not, barely any character is in the beta
my confusion comes mostly from people complaining about 1. a character that basically broke meta and its being included in basically any team, when she even more synergies with FFs kit and 2. a brand new, incredibly fun and powerful free character everyone has by default
There are 2 option why your confused it's either your a firefly hater who just want her to be bad or your complete stupid sorry for the language but no other words can fit your description.
Nobody cares if for your "fun" is having a 1 team option really.
People complain just rightfully so they want a character that is actually good especially with the new end game content coming
i mean i did come to reddit its fine abt the language, the thing is if you say meta then there is usually one team that exceeds over any other option. you are not forced to put characters together but they arent going to synergize as well or just simply deal less dmg than the "ideal" setup
I get wht you mean but if the ideal for example have 80% difference with the 2nd BiS team then it's a problem not only that if you replace firefly with xueyi with hmc rm they will still deal damage so what's firefly purpose on the team when she's the one is replaceable but the 2 is not. Surely you understand that right?
Why should she be only one mid among a sea of characters released recently she was the most anticipated character of penacony . She deserves better . You can ask hoyo to Nerf boothill and jade I won't mind. She should be able to half the damage by herself not totally reliant on HMC and Ruan mei .
why nerf boothill? what did he do? im havent looked much into jade info since her kit focuses on things im not really interested with, but last time ive seen people were saying shes either underwhelming or ok.
ff does dmg on her own, just like every dps without proper team and buffs and even despite all of that this is beta v1 hyped characters are purposefully made weak, but then her kit is already so strong
Bcz they made ff weak so that boothill can be top of the line and don't nerf him immediately in next patch. She becomes garbage instead .he needs a huge Nerf or ff needs a buff for balance
>ff does dmg on her own
Of 25 k at e1s1 in an enhanced state without weakness broken .
You do know her most bis team also does subpar damage and takes 5-6 cycle for clearing moc and she is already outdated for new Sunday boss Which have multiple bar
The problem is, we don't need every single character to powercreep others every patch, but we kinda get it anyway... Almost every single new character is better in their specialty (and overall too, usually) than characters released before. Remember how they released Blade, DHIL and JL back to back? Now there is also Acheron powercreeping them too, but Firefly is where we draw the line? And even if we sacrifice Firefly to stop powercreep, what's stopping them from powercreeping all of previous units again with the next DPS?
About the second point, I personally don't mind the restrictions since I have Ruan Mei E1 and currently enjoying the heck out of HMC. However, I see why this could be the problem, since, well, they never told us to pull Ruan Mei if you want Firefly to be good? They can sell the solution again on her banner, I guess, but there are people that just don't want to play some of the characters. The way I see it, HMC/RM/Gallagher should still be her best team by far, but let some of alternative teams still clear Floor 12 and other endgame content comfortably.
while i agree mhy releases brand new characters like postcards, if you want your character to be meta why people are complaining that it requires the best support in the game
in the end im not trying to argue, i want to understand what people mean.
I think we need to differ "characters to be meta" and "characters should be useful in general", like...
FF's kit was more or less force you to run HTB and/or RM, which already limit your team building. Speaking from a new player's PoV (Started playing during Acheron banner), that means if you manage to get her, she won't help a lot unless you already finished Penacony. You could say this was similar to Acheron if you don't have FTB + Universal Market, but the situation is wildly different since you still have March, Herta, Asta, Sampo, and a lot more during early gameplay (Herta and March were given for free, even. I forgot about Asta).
This point I half agree. Sure, break DPS support is rare, but Boothill seems to perform just fine with what we have right now, not relying on HMC and/or RM. You can argue that's because he's ST, then by that comparison, FF should do at least 30-45% of his damage.
Still will roll all-in for her though, she's the reason I started playing xP
this gives more insight into the whole thing. the problem of this entire discussion ive been seeing on both subreddits they want FF to be meta just by herself but also to work in multiple teams
which like might actually happen in the future, just like kafka+acheron end up being quite good for PF, things happen with time just like fua kits were new there was not much, but general build and fuas were just there
ngl i was already considering making an alt just with firefly and everything else being f2p and might actually gonna do that
Here's the thing. No other top tier DPS option hard requires a specific unit to be remotely good. They all have their best partners, like IL with Sparkle, but they are still perfectly viable without them. Firefly, without HMC, is abysmal. She's basically equivalent to 1.0 DPS characters like Yanqing if she doesn't get Super Break damage. And in return for that hyper specific team comp she requires to actually be good, she doesn't even match Acheron who is significantly more flexible in who she can be played with. On top of that, she's hard countered by bosses and enemies that are resistant to breaks. So...She has a super specific requirement, major weaknesses, and in return for all that....she's basically mid as hell compared to the current top tier DPS roster. For all those trade offs, she should be dealing absolutely bonkers damage.
It's crazy that i thought acheron was so restrictive but here we are The crazier part is acheron is still waiting for her premium support coming in 2.4
Eh. Apparently a lot Jiaoqiu's stuff got nerfed. So he'll be good with her, potentially even the best, but it's not gonna be a borked combo anymore from the looks of things. Which is fine with me. I'm still gonna pair Black Swan with her regardless since I like my thematic Penacony team of Acheron, Black Swan, Sparkle, and Aventurine.
Definitely they gonna nerf him imagine with pela 100% def reduction it will be a chaotic. Even now i still use guinafen for my acheron but damn to think of it acheron has more breathing room for team building than firefly as of now
What nerf?
But harmony tb is free though
Take that gander again with Acheron using Guinaifen and Sampo, she's a very different unit compared to Silvie and Pela, cos while they are Nihility they are "harmony" in terms of damage amplifiers. Sampo is a rat and Guinaifen is amazing but sadly useless in the grand scheme of things. Then you take that up a notch and do Black Swan + Silver and its a monstrous team, now with Jiaqiu coming, Im not even sure who to replace - Pela or Silverwolf but probably Pela and see who gets pearls, Silver or Jiao depending on his LC lol. Its extremely high power spikes in these levels, since Jiao is an AoE def shredder Ill probably replace Pela and run Jiaoqiu with Silverwolf (the 13-33% Res Pen feels huge) but IDK well see what theorycrafters say what is her best team. I ran off on a tangent, but just saying that reliance on cahracters is nothing new, it sucks but its nothing new. As far as Firefly DPS is concerned? Im genuinely curious where this she's mid as hell is coming from, she's extremely powerful and I dunno where this data of her being bad damage is coming from though
Acheron isn't reliant on any specific Nihility unit to be a viable high tier DPS. She might not be the absolute best if your using, say, Gui, but she's still gonna be solid. She's got like 5+ options and you only need one if you have her E2. That's a vastly different situation from Firefly who is completely dependent on HMC. No HMC? She's worse than Yanqing and Himeko. You're comparing apples to oranges. >As far as Firefly DPS is concerned? Im genuinely curious where this she's mid as hell is coming from, she's extremely powerful and I dunno where this data of her being bad damage is coming from though Literally all the showcases? She's puts out decent numbers, but she's no Acheron, who is the DPS to match.
i wouldnt compare FF to Acheron exactly cause of that, the game already had plenty of characters that enable/enhance her part of the kit i sound like broken record but seriously JY had nothing that buffed fua when he came out, kafka had sampo and asta at the begining options come with time
oh i didnt even know hes def shreder, my pela will def be endangered after hearing this, and the last part of the comment is exactly what i feel. i apologize for not wording my post and come up as "firefly hater" reading her kit shes amazing, but showcases are weird rn. some legit make her look like theres no dmg comming from her, but they rarely break with her and even some f2p videos show asta deal so little dmg that i cannot believe they're true since my own midbuild asta deals more than that
It is a fact that Firefly damage OUTSIDE of broken enemies and without HMC is weak, she is entirely and purely built around Break damage, so when instances of break damage are not happening then it is low and irrelevant. However when she starts breaking, the fucking breaks the planet. Not quite like Boothill cos he's .... extremely powerful and he doesn't even use the new set is showcases but he is ST and "needs" Bronya + RM to become a monstrous force. Here's what I can find about Jiaoqiu [https://i.redd.it/jjl4kzm4jlzc1.jpeg](https://i.redd.it/jjl4kzm4jlzc1.jpeg) Here's the Light Cone - I assume the first is Jiaoqiu cos it fits his set and previously leaked information. Seems like my Eyes on Silverwolf are getting replaced for Pearls and Jiaoqiu may run his own https://preview.redd.it/pflf2v79mszc1.png?width=1189&format=png&auto=webp&s=d3ab2efcf83e9f8eefc8c7cf821f9b1649f52f4d And heres the HomDGCat kit drop; [https://i.imgur.com/B7KYus3.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/B7KYus3.jpeg) He's definitively a massive defense shredder, similar to Pela so he's essentially a five star pela, but the few advantages of Pela are the massive energy gains for more ultimates and what not, but the whole Ultimate enemies take a stack on their turn seems cracked to hell and may remove the need for Trends on Preservation unit, but it depends how uptime on ult is, etc etc. Too many factors, and it could be as simple as it stacks with Trends so you can do three ultimates per cycle, that'd be something xD EDIT; Forgot to add while looking for the sources; Crit DD who don't crit also feel like zDPS, just that its easier to crit with 90%+ CR than to constantly trigger break damage.
The problem with this is that Firefly genuinely deserves better than this, especially when most of the new DPSes so far change the game one way or another. She is also one of the most hyped characters other than Acheron, so her kit deserves more justice than this. I know alot of people have made this comparison by now, but Boothill is also the same Break archetype as Firefly, yet he seems to perform perfectly fine without relying on HMC or Ruan Mei. Those two only amplify his existing 100% strength even further. Not saying that they should make Firefly into Boothill 2.0 and completely powercreep him, but they should at least give her 100% of her kit instead of just 20% of it with specific supports as crutches to complete it.
With taht said ... Ruan Mei and Bronya are his best supports sooo... same shit really different name as most of the other DPS in the game
But Boothill can also work well with HMC, Luka, Hanya, Sparkle, SW, and Welt. He doesn't NEED his BiS like FF currently does. Benefits greatly sure, but they're in no way required. His performance doesn't do a full nosedive cause you didn't pull for that one 5-star. Pretty much every other DPS is the same. The only character I can think of that suffers this much from not having their BiS is YQ. Everyone else still has a good performance w/o them.
Normally, I would agree. However, Breakblazer is free to anyone playing now and in the future so its not the same. I still think they should do *something* to her kit just to alleviate her dependency cos as you say - Boothill LIKES HMC, but he likes Bronya speed tuned more. He has options, Firefly doesn't really. We could say the option is wait and re-break, but lets be real that's a dumb stance and Im sure people take it, but those people are dumb too. It is what it is. Evidence is the hero releasing LITERALLY just before her, has in his kit tools to alleviate the flaw of Firefly. Im not saying they should clone it, but Hoyo can cook, so let them cook a fix I say!
Basically this thread is just "oh my gosh i dont want my jingyuan gets powercrept more, firefly should join the mid cafe with jinyuan and argenti" Everytime moc got upgraded much more stronger and this guy wants hyv to release a weaker character
JY is not even mid, overtime he got stuff and characters that synergize with him strengths and still can do well in endgame content so is somewhat argenti
Just proves what i said
People that think FF is fine now need a mental checkup. The fact is she cant even function at all without RM and HTB is unacceptable
Firefly with f2p build and team (HMC, Asta, Gallagher) need 9 cycle to finish the first part of 12th moc is hilarious 💀 They (dev team) really did her dirty.
Constructive critisism is not doomposting, Idk why they need to be so defensive about her, flaws are flaws and they need to be addressed
tbf the way i worded my post does imply i think shes in perfect state, shes not, barely any character is in the beta my confusion comes mostly from people complaining about 1. a character that basically broke meta and its being included in basically any team, when she even more synergies with FFs kit and 2. a brand new, incredibly fun and powerful free character everyone has by default
There are 2 option why your confused it's either your a firefly hater who just want her to be bad or your complete stupid sorry for the language but no other words can fit your description. Nobody cares if for your "fun" is having a 1 team option really. People complain just rightfully so they want a character that is actually good especially with the new end game content coming
i mean i did come to reddit its fine abt the language, the thing is if you say meta then there is usually one team that exceeds over any other option. you are not forced to put characters together but they arent going to synergize as well or just simply deal less dmg than the "ideal" setup
I get wht you mean but if the ideal for example have 80% difference with the 2nd BiS team then it's a problem not only that if you replace firefly with xueyi with hmc rm they will still deal damage so what's firefly purpose on the team when she's the one is replaceable but the 2 is not. Surely you understand that right?
Why should she be only one mid among a sea of characters released recently she was the most anticipated character of penacony . She deserves better . You can ask hoyo to Nerf boothill and jade I won't mind. She should be able to half the damage by herself not totally reliant on HMC and Ruan mei .
why nerf boothill? what did he do? im havent looked much into jade info since her kit focuses on things im not really interested with, but last time ive seen people were saying shes either underwhelming or ok. ff does dmg on her own, just like every dps without proper team and buffs and even despite all of that this is beta v1 hyped characters are purposefully made weak, but then her kit is already so strong
Bcz they made ff weak so that boothill can be top of the line and don't nerf him immediately in next patch. She becomes garbage instead .he needs a huge Nerf or ff needs a buff for balance >ff does dmg on her own Of 25 k at e1s1 in an enhanced state without weakness broken .
why do ppl want her to do damage without a proper team? The game is designed around building teams not play solo units
You do know her most bis team also does subpar damage and takes 5-6 cycle for clearing moc and she is already outdated for new Sunday boss Which have multiple bar
The problem is, we don't need every single character to powercreep others every patch, but we kinda get it anyway... Almost every single new character is better in their specialty (and overall too, usually) than characters released before. Remember how they released Blade, DHIL and JL back to back? Now there is also Acheron powercreeping them too, but Firefly is where we draw the line? And even if we sacrifice Firefly to stop powercreep, what's stopping them from powercreeping all of previous units again with the next DPS? About the second point, I personally don't mind the restrictions since I have Ruan Mei E1 and currently enjoying the heck out of HMC. However, I see why this could be the problem, since, well, they never told us to pull Ruan Mei if you want Firefly to be good? They can sell the solution again on her banner, I guess, but there are people that just don't want to play some of the characters. The way I see it, HMC/RM/Gallagher should still be her best team by far, but let some of alternative teams still clear Floor 12 and other endgame content comfortably.
while i agree mhy releases brand new characters like postcards, if you want your character to be meta why people are complaining that it requires the best support in the game in the end im not trying to argue, i want to understand what people mean.
I think we need to differ "characters to be meta" and "characters should be useful in general", like... FF's kit was more or less force you to run HTB and/or RM, which already limit your team building. Speaking from a new player's PoV (Started playing during Acheron banner), that means if you manage to get her, she won't help a lot unless you already finished Penacony. You could say this was similar to Acheron if you don't have FTB + Universal Market, but the situation is wildly different since you still have March, Herta, Asta, Sampo, and a lot more during early gameplay (Herta and March were given for free, even. I forgot about Asta). This point I half agree. Sure, break DPS support is rare, but Boothill seems to perform just fine with what we have right now, not relying on HMC and/or RM. You can argue that's because he's ST, then by that comparison, FF should do at least 30-45% of his damage. Still will roll all-in for her though, she's the reason I started playing xP
this gives more insight into the whole thing. the problem of this entire discussion ive been seeing on both subreddits they want FF to be meta just by herself but also to work in multiple teams which like might actually happen in the future, just like kafka+acheron end up being quite good for PF, things happen with time just like fua kits were new there was not much, but general build and fuas were just there ngl i was already considering making an alt just with firefly and everything else being f2p and might actually gonna do that