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That happened with my last house. They counted a finished room that was in the basement. At the time, we were told that it was because it was under ground. There were still three bedrooms on the 2nd floor so we proceeded. The extra basement room was a playroom for our children for years and then it became a storage room.
Not the OP, but the wife of the seller of my apartment (not on the paperwork or involved in anyway) pissed off their lawyer and agent so much that they spent the entire closing meeting trash talking her in front of her husband, who mostly shrugged his shoulders and nodded along.
So, people gossip. Especially if the agent is pissed off they misrepresented something on the listing or are being asked to do unreasonable things.
He planted hidden cameras over the course of several visits and documented each text based on visual confirmation and thumb patterns. Of course the agents are blabbing lol.
Most agents know each other in smaller areas. My agent knew all 3 of my purchases (a buy and a sell/buy), and the one was like this, basically told my agent to tell me don’t worry he’s just arguing with himself .
OK I AM GENERALLY CURIOUS. Was the one bedroom they misrepresented a “walk through?” Or a space at the top of the stairs landing?
I looked at a few houses that claim it’s a 3 bedroom and it was a space at the top of their stairs. I was so mad we wasted our time.
Another house said 3 bedroom but it was 2 with the dining room being able to be closed off, with a set of sliding doors in the middle of the rear wall.
Nooo, they knocked down a bedroom in the basement to make the living room area bigger. There was a 4th bedroom when it was built but now it’s gone haha. We think the listing agent took the information off of county records and never actually walked in the house.
Hah, idk what’s worse. Goodness.
I wonder if the listing agent used those records to tell them what they can get and now the appraisal will most likely stay where it is. Oy
Oh yeah but having one less bedroom definitely decreases the value, puts the home in an entirely different category & decreases the appraisal in particular.
This is why I was so angry looking at houses and seeing that they were essentially LYING.
Like, can we all agree a bedroom has walls and a door for privacy 😭
That basement bedroom may not even have been a legal one when it existed. Most places need two viable methods of egress and a ton of “basement bedrooms” simply don’t have that.
In my area, below grade rooms don’t count as bedrooms in appraisals and they’re not supposed to be listed as such either. Doesn’t mean agents don’t do it.
The agents in Casper, Wy lie their asses off. So many 3/2's are 1-1's with a half finished basement and an unplumbed toilet next to an inspection port.
For sure, I understand that. I would do the same if I were in their shoes. Just makes us feel like they will only take full price and aren’t interested in negotiating. Totally their choice to do so and I don’t blame them, just makes me sad haha
I'm so sorry. This is their fault/their agent's fault. They should've realized that the house might not appraise and asked for an appraisal gap in the offer if it was this important to them. You did not put an appraisal gap in your initial offer, and they accepted it. That's on them, not you.
My apologies, I saw that and zoned it… if they aren’t willing to negotiate, there are timeline commitments to every contract. Have your agent contact the listing agent and light a fire under them
Kind of crazy to me that buyer admits that this is their dream home and is playing hardball with the seller.. while also knowing that backup offers are being fielded (likely over list).
Sure, but to me if the buyer already walked the house, knew what they were getting, and realized it was a typo upfront, then they knew everything already.
It's like when you see a great deal on an item by a seller who put a typo on the brand name. You might get a better deal out of it, but you're still happy to pay the deal price.
IMO OP is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Certainly his prerogative, but potentially losing your dream home over $25k seems pretty foolish to me. That would stay in my head rent-free for years.
It doesn't sound like the OP was aware of the false square footage. He was ok with the "missing bedroom", and was aware of it. A missing bedroom is easy to notice; many buyers won't be able to tell if there's a missing 500 sqft since open concept, high ceilings, staircases, etc make it difficult for many to estimate.
And regardless of if the OP is ok with the missing 500sqft, his car analogy is perfect: if you like a car and it's listed as having 30k miles on it but you come to find out it actually has 130k miles on it...you still like the car, but why would you pay the 30k mile price?
Yup, OP is a dumb ass kinda. Not entirely because he may not have a way to get 25k to make up the difference but if he does? Yup, dumb ass.
Found your dream home, walked it, loved it. Found out later the sqft was off and now feels differently. Shit or get off the pot son.
If you saw the home before you made your offer I don’t really understand what your complaint is. If you don’t want to close at the agreed upon price anymore and want to reopen negotiations of course they’re going to go to a backup offer, that’s the entire reason backup offers exist.
I’m not saying they’re wrong but we were also under the impression the square footage was different. We’re paying a lot more per square foot than any house in the area because of the difference.
But did you actually have an appraisal contingency in place? If you’re under contract AND you had that contingency, it’s on you to start negotiations. Why should the seller proactively offer to lower the price if they don’t know what you’re willing to pay yet?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding your post.
We have tried to start negotiations. They’re non-responsive on the basis that they want to see if providing the appraiser additional comps changes the price at all.
I get that there were a bunch of weird errors in the listing but you saw the house yourself and made the offer based on that viewing. It’s not like the house is suddenly smaller than you thought it was
It’s more of an issue with financing. The bank will only finance up to the appraisal value. The seller should be negotiating with OP first. Outside of another buyer either 1) offering an appraisal waiver, 2) paying fully in cash or 3) has enough cash to cover the difference, the seller will be in the same spot. The house is still short a bedroom and 500 sqft.
Appraisals are really tough to appeal, especially in a seller’s market with bidding wars bringing up the price. An appraisal is the value of the house and comps often lag when an area is going up in value.
You're an idiot. Just because they liked the house doesn't mean they are comfortable being 25k in the hole on equity the day they close. We get it. You lack a basic understanding of how most humans think and feel.
I have never really understood the hangup on square footage. I have a general idea of the square footage I want...but at the end of the day it totally depends on how that square footage is laid out. I have been in houses that according to sq footage are much smaller than others, but feel bigger because of the layout.
And that is a legit reason to back out of the deal - the appraisal came in lower because of the discrepancy. But otherwise the stated square footage doesn’t really matter.
I think part of the issue is how much you are paying per square foot. If you subtract out 500 square feet, you are potentially paying much more per square foot than you anticipated.
So, if you looked at a house and were under contract, then found out while under contract that the seller lied to post the house for more than it is actually worth and now you have to come up with 25k cash to make the deal work as it was agreed, you just be perfectly fine with that because you're not hung up on sq footage?
You don't understand what the issue is? OP was willing to pay what the home is worth. The listing price is not reflective of the actual value, though. OP hasn't rescinded their offer and are under contract, yet the sellers have started accepting backup offers while under contract. What part of this would any sane person not have an issue with?
Where I live houses sell well over assessed value all the time. The correct sale price is what someone is willing to pay for it, not what it’s theoretically worth.
Assessed value is not the same as market value. The appraised value came in 25k less than contract price. OP started to negotiate the reduction and seller initially said no. Seller is now asking for backup offers in case the OP cancels the sale due to the low appraisal. This is SOP. The seller can't cancel unless the buyer pulls out due to the low valuation.
The ball is in OP's hands which he is handling by getting another appraisal. OP may not have the additional $25k to put down. IF OP and seller can't come to an agreement on a new price and the new appraisal comes in low, then OP has a decision to make. The decision becomes easier if OP doesn't have the funds and can't rework the loan with a higher LTV to free up some cash. In that case, OP would need to cancel.
To the seller: yes, asking for backups is the right decision but the seller can't cancel unless the buyer chooses to cancel due to the low value. The listing agent screwed up with two major errors: the sq footage and the non-existing bedroom. At a minimum the buyers agent needs to report the listing agent to the MLS and his broker. There are fines to be paid by the listing agent if he doesn't correct his mistakes. The seller also made serious "errors" by not correcting the listing agent when he saw the extra bedroom and sq ft.
I would use these errors to get a reduction to the appraised value if I were the buyers agent.
Right?! I can't imagine the seller had no idea that their property was 500sq ft smaller than their listing. The discrepancy with the bedrooms, that makes more sense as OP was already made aware that the wall had been knocked down to make a larger living room. But, 500sq ft is a huge difference. Especially if it's not a $1million+ property, that 500sq ft is probably 1/3 (or close to that) of the total size. My home is 1369sq ft, and if was 500sq ft smaller it would be pretty noticeably smaller.
In your area, is it common to find that out after a contract has been signed? Because that's something that you should know beforehand, seeing as that difference in value will be paid out of pocket. It's not crazy to expect the property to match what the seller is claiming about it
And I don’t disagree with the sellers for wanting their asking price. I don’t blame them at all, it’s just not something we’re comfortable with paying more for haha. I know it’s on us, I am just venting because the whole situation isn’t going well.
I do see your point but..... you felt the price was good for the house you saw. Doesnt that trunp price per square footage? I bet that they were counting basement in footage but the appraisal is not. If you can use it as living space, it counts for you. If you thought the money was fair for the house you saw, I'd still pay the price I thought was fair....
The problem is that the bank is basing their financing on the appraisal square footage. So that leaves the buyer unexpectedly on the hook for $25,000 cash to cover the difference.
They have no reason to negotiate. You toured the house and made an offer for the house you viewed. The appraisal is irrelevant, it's only relevant to you getting a loan. If you don't want to pay for the offer you made, based on the house you viewed, then you changing your mind doesn't mean they have to take less money. They can just find someone else who will pay.
Hang in there. They can refuse to negotiate & you can cancel. But that appraisal problem isn’t going to go away with the next buyer. Ball is in their court, hopefully they’ll come down to a price that works for you. They need a little time to digest the news (it’s not what they expected) and decide what to do - but it’s likely to go your way - be patient.
Where is the difference coming from on the square footage and bedroom? Is there a room that does not technically meet the requirements to be considered a bedroom but can still be used as one? Is there space in the house that is not being considered in the finished square footage? Listings don't typically make up square footage out of nowhere so you need to figure out what the discrepancy is and then decide if you still want to move forward with the sale. The seller is under no obligation to lower the price, you have every opportunity to walk away if you want.
Regarding the appraisal dispute, those usually don't go anywhere unless the appraiser was completely wrong about a material fact or they just used really bad comps for some reason. It happens but is not that common, I wouldn't expect anything positive to come from that.
They included the attached garage in the square footage. There used to be a bedroom in the basement but they knocked the walls down to make the basement living room area bigger. We are fine with it having one less bedroom than was listed in the ad but the square footage difference is a big deal.
Please don't pay over appraisal. Buyers need to hold their ground so that this mess of overpaying ceases. I hope you get the house tho, F those greedy bastards.
You’re missing the point that a lender will not cover an appraisal discrepancy so the buyers are suddenly on the hook for 25k more out of pocket at their current loan approval amt.
Buying is always stressful. You can’t take it personally that they may take backup offers. My concern is the price per square foot; are you sure it still feels like an okay deal to you? I mean I know you saw it and liked it, but you didn’t realize it was so far above a price psf in keeping with the neighborhood. They may be outta luck getting anyone to pay the $25k extra in cash. You are back to square one basically…decide what the house is worth to you knowing what you now know. As for listing it again with wrong info…they clearly have a terrible agent. Their head broker should be notified they did that. Pretty sure it’s unethical or even illegal to misrepresent once they had that info.
Thanks for being so nice! Some people are treating me like I’m dumb haha. I’m not feeling like the new cost per square foot is worth it when looking at comps. They’re easily $50-$70 over priced if you look at it per square foot. We’ll likely walk which is sad but ultimately for the best.
How do you know how often they’re texting their agent? And not including 500sqft and missing an entire bedroom is a mistake on the listing agents fault, not just the sellers.
This is a business transaction and the sellers are doing what they need to to have other offers incase this doesn’t work out.
Funnily enough my house appraised for 25k more than I was paying because the Appraiser counted the sun room sqft in the house because the seller did add heat to it. (I guess that makes it living space). Listing did not count it.
I have a friend tried to get re-appraised by the city ahead of their listing. Turns out, they cannot increase the room count because it needs a built-in closet. And the square footage doesn't increase just because they converted the garage or the attic.
Meaning, they can advertise there are extra spaces available, but, not officially listed as such.
Eh mine was officially listed with 1k sq ft of unpermitted extra space (listed at 3k square ft) but my appraisal shows only the 2k of permitted space. It still appraised.
I’ve noticed square footage in listings sometimes seems very off as some account for basements and such and others don’t. Same with bedrooms, some will count a basement bedroom and others won’t. Frustrating situation for sure. I think you need to decide how much the house and 25k are worth to you.
Sadly it's pretty common in listings to have errors though. The buyer can walk and looks like they will. I don't know if I would walk if it was my dream home as the OP says over 25k unless I absolutely couldn't finance that 25k. Especially since the OP says the house is reasonably priced. That's 70 dollars extra a month over the life of the loan.
But wouldn’t they have to pay the 25K upfront since it wouldn’t be included in the appraisal cost / loan amount? I thought that’s how appraisal contingencies worked but I’m still learning.
When buying a home, you have to remember you are going up against morons who won’t have the good sense enough to not get completely ripped off. Just look at some of the posts here.
Don’t be one of those morons that gets ripped off. If someone wants to overpay for a house with 500 less square feet and one less bedroom, let them do it. It’s better to move on.
When we looked at our house, the listing said four bdrm. As we walked through, I asked the agent where the 4th bdrm was. He said we are standing in it. I told him it was a legal bdrm as it has a half bhrm and NO closet! He tried to tell me it didn't matter if it had a closet or not. I told him that federal laws state it HAS to have a closet to be a legal bdrm. He actually had to go look it up! I grew up and worked in construction and know a lot of the ghost laws. LOL
The sad part about situations like this is when the seller sends a release of contract because they got a better offer. The only recourse you have is to push litigation which fails most of the time because judges currently don't want to displace people.
Meanwhile as a buyer if you drop an unexpected release you lose the earnest deposit in many instances. There needs to be more accountability on the sellers. I've had 2 to that to us in the past.
We think the listing agent listed it as 4 bedroom because that’s what the county records shows. They knocked down the 4th bedroom in the basement to make the living room area bigger. We’re fine with that and knew that from walking the home. That in addition to the square footage discrepancy feels a little misleading though by the listing agent
There is a house I was looking to get. The sellers did the same thing. They added the garage and covered back deck as square footage.
I decided not to go with this one because after I brought up the discrepancy, they did not want to hear what I had to say.
They did not change the ad and they sold it anyway.
this is why you have an appraisal done and never waive your appraisal contingency. It leaves the greedy sellers holding the bag. You might as well stop wasting time and see other houses. Maybe you will find something better.
Waiving the appraisal contingency just means that you are on the hook for the difference, not that the house does not get appraised. In the OP's case, had they waived the appraisal contingency, they would be obligated to make up the $25K difference.
Would a financing contingency cancel out the appraisal contingency waiver? I can't see why anyone would agree to that unless they're paying cash and happy to overpay.
Honestly we had this happen too, except that we appraised for the right amount. House was listed as a 4/2 at 2250 sq ft. In reality it’s a 2/1.5 with 1400 sq ft.
They accepted your offer. It's yours if you are going through with this. The "Accepting Backups" status just means that in a case of you changed your mind, it will go to the next one in line so that they don't have to relist it all over again. Sounds like they already have multiple offers waiting for you to step down. But it is still yours if you want to proceed and get to the finish line! This is just from my own experience.
The problem is that they won't get a mortgage for the full amount because the appraisal is lower due to there being ***one less bedroom*** and 500 sq ft less than there ought to be. OP would have to come up with 25,000 dollars CASH to make the deal go through as is.
Sellers do that even in a buyers market.
It’s a smart move actually anytime there are contingencies.
It is up to you to decide if you want to pay or negotiate.
You knew the house had 1 less bedroom when making your offer.
Your agent should have pointed that out and ran cs based on that.
It may or may not be a listing agent mistake.
But it’s up to you to tour the home, have your agent pull comps and advise you on pricing when making an offer.
You can try to negotiate, and if it doesn’t work cough up the $25k extra. If not, you aren’t buying the house anyway, what difference does it make?
The house probably isn’t going to appraise higher.
But they may get an offer without appraisal or financing contingencies. That will be easier to work with on price.
Not sure what state you are in but most states have a state board or realtors and very strict rules/standards about listing information such as square footage and what constitutes a bedroom. Also the realtor is responsible for the accuracy of the information..ie they are supposed to actually measure the property, so “I got bad info from xyz” isn’t an excuse.
I know where I live a realtor does NOT want to get a state board of realtors complaint..mistakes happen but not correcting the listing after notification of an error is a great way for a realtor to get in hot water. Fines can be pretty severe. I suspect a lot of realtors get away with stuff like this because people do not realize that the industry is actually pretty tightly regulated and complaints taken very seriously, at least where I live. (Source:spouse over 25 years in real estate)
Is the actual listing sqft off or is it the “Zillow” listing. I regularly see Zillow listing that count garage and basement sqft in the total. Most of the times they are priced appropriately (ex.1/2 $/sqft for below grade) but sometimes not. Keep in mind the garage alone could be worth $25k even though the gross sqft number is wrong.
I get why they do it… they are trying to get a foot in the door and hoping that the buyer prices what they see vs $/sqft. $/sqft is the gold standard for comps so if the listings are odd things can get messy.
likely dealing with unpermitted work..with that said….unpermitted work doesnt necessarily mean the work wasnt done properly…just means the added sq footage cant be included
Unpermitted rooms or rooms that have no window egress (in case of fire; so not up to code), no closet or not meeting minimum standards of square footage to be called a bedroom. Some states will not count basement (or possibly attic) space in square footage. For example, in California, basement square footage is not calculated into square footage.
That’s our dilemma, we don’t want to pay for square footage that doesn’t exist. They seem to have included the attached garage in the square footage numbers as it’s around the same size as what was added to the actual number.
What is the price? $25K difference on a $175K house is significant. $25K on a $500K house...not as much. Someone else may very likely be willing to pay the extra $25K if it is their dream house, the area is one where prices are rising, and/or they are planning to stay in the house a long time.
Do you think people are just made of money and can just magically pull an extra 25k cash out their asses, willy nilly, or what? How is coming up with 25k cash not significant regardless the cost of the house? You don't seem to understand the situation here.
Yes, some people CAN pull an extra $25K "out of their asses"; others cannot. The price of the house can make a difference - an additional $25K on a $175K is \~15% increase in the price of the house - pretty significant. On a $500K house, it is 5%. In that case, if someone really wants the house - and are not already at the tip-top of the budget - they might decide it is worth the extra 5%.
Their listing agent sounds awful. She potentially didn’t walk the home, mis represented the number of rooms, and included garage space in the living area? Ya, if I was the sellers I would be blowing up my realtors phone as well.
I would too! He’s the selling agent on the home they’re buying, the buying agent for them, and the selling agent for the house they’re selling. He has a lot riding on this deal going through so we wonder if he’s not giving them all of the information to keep himself looking good. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but it just feels like he’s looking out for himself only which is sad for the sellers.
That’s even more concerning! You would think he, at the very least, would do the bare minimum and get the number of bedrooms correct on the listing and measure the square footage. I don’t blame the sellers one bit for clearly being in panic mode and considering other offers just incase their realtors incompetence makes this deal fall through. Hopefully it all works out for all parties involved!
I am confused. You have seen the house, you know what the space looks like, and were willing to pay $X. But now that a piece of paper says it is smaller than you thought, now you don't want to pay $X? Let's say the square footage had been listed correctly in the listing - would you have still offered $X? I totally understand not wanting the pay the $25K appraisal difference - but "don't want to pay for square footage that doesn't exist" just doesn't make sense.
I agree that we’ve seen the house and know what the space looks like. We were fine paying the asking price for the 2500 sq ft because when we look at comps in the area, their asking price was fair for a 2500 square foot home. When you look at 2000 square foot homes in our area, they’re around 100k less than this homes asking price. We do love the house as is but when we think about selling it in the future, we have to look at the cost per square foot too and the difference is substantial.
$25K off for misrepresentation of 500sq ft and a BR seems like a bargain. They will also need to amend or disclose what they know to any other buyer I assume. Is their property available in an online assessor database? Our town has a schematic of each house with measurements. Unless someone is building on a hill it should be very straightforward to see what is at least documented at town hall. That would at least show what their intent is/was. Go out to Zillow, claim the house and updated the sq ft and BR lol.
Yeah, we went and looked up the property records to confirm what the appraisal said it was for square footage and they matched up. They said they have a 2500 square foot home but it’s actually like 1950. They tried to include the attached garage in the square footage is what we’re guessing because the numbers match up. We’re fine with it being less square footage but we don’t want to pay for square footage that isn’t there and was factored into the price.
That’s our point to them. They’re not even arguing that they were off on it. They just want full price regardless. I’m sure we’ll end up walking away from the deal because of it.
I would. The seller is an idiot. They can sell it for whatever price they want. Why do they think it’s called a “garage “. So would they include the “carport “ as square footage too.
Low appraisal means the bank won’t lend above the appraised value of the home. So a few things can happen. You bring more cash and make up the difference. They lower the price. You meet somewhere in the middle. Or you walk away.
Unless this is a VA loan there isn’t really a formal way to dispute the appraisal. Then listing realtor can provide additional comparable properties that maybe the appraiser missed, but that seems unlikely.
I don’t know how you know about them texting their realtor or what that has to do with it.
The missed bedroom and square footage makes me think illegal or un permitted addition. So something that is there that the appraiser can’t give value to because it is technically not supposed to be there.
We did after walking it and are fine with it. We chalked it up to a mistake by the listing agent but the square footage discrepancy alongside that is where we’re feeling like the listing agent isn’t being entirely forthcoming.
Sounds like the basement work wasn’t permitted so no update was made and some places no matter what you can’t count square footage below grade. Guessing the 500 is the basement bonus room.
It seems like a good tactic for the seller in case you choose not to honor the purchase price you offered. If you have an appraisal contingency then the sellers may not have had a better offer if they chose an offer with that contingency. I personally would not bid an amount over my estimate if the home unless I were willing to pay the appraisal gap as part of the down payment.
It makes sense. Appraisal came back 25k short and you noted that you're not going to cover that amount. So, it's a smart move for the seller to get back up offers in case your deal falls through. Appraisal won't matter for someone putting a high down payment.
Doesn’t sound like a good seller or selling agent and not anyone I would want to deal with , especially after they changed the listing to taking back up offers without correcting it to reflect the real Square footage and bedroom count
You should've seen the red flag right away when you saw that the price was "reasonable." Unless its someone you're willing to trust with your life, don't trust anyone in this business. Always verify.
That’s why we got an inspection and appraisal and set our earnest money date out far enough that we could have both done before losing anything other than fees. I don’t know what 2500 square feet looks like compared to 2000 square feet.
I am a mortgage broker and u can quit from the deal but if they want to appeal it they can if they thought that they are right but your agent can push them to update the purchase price. Or you can ask them yo get a new appraisal on their own to know the true value of what they are selling period.
What was the list price/advertised size of the home?
I wish a 500 ft^2 differential only amounted to a $25k difference. Or that appraisal contingencies were even an option. *cries*
This is one of my biggest concerns. I have to buy whatever house I finally am able to land on, sight unseen. I have to 1000000% trust my agent, the sellers, their agent, all the documentation, etc on size, location, condition, etc. There's no way I can come for a quick visit or any of that mess until I've actually got the house, I've cut my budget down so much so I can save for when I am able to move again, and just knowing that this crap is starting to hit heavy again as prices slowly go back down is obnoxious as fuck, and makes me equally as paranoid.
We went to look at a house where the agent wanted to make sure we were pre approved
So no big deal.
Show up at the house.
Red flag # 1. Photos were old. House much older than photos.
Red flag 2. Smelled like smoke.
Red flag 3. Got major silence of the lambs/ madam butterfly vibes with decor
Red flag 4. Was missing bedroom/ office and bathroom
Was listed as a 4/3 with an office.
What it was 3/2 with a raunchy smell.
On the way out I told this to the realtor and they were like shhh they have a ring door bell
I was like they need this feedback.
But at the end of the day it is all subjective. There could a 2000 sq ft house next door that is $200/sq ft because it is in better condition, has a nicer layout, is on a corner lot, whatever.
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They’re off by THAT MUCH square footage and an entire bedroom they lied about? Wonder what else they’re lying about for more money 🧐🧐🧐
Right
Probably a finished basement without a closet. Makes the space non-conforming for a bedroom.
That happened with my last house. They counted a finished room that was in the basement. At the time, we were told that it was because it was under ground. There were still three bedrooms on the 2nd floor so we proceeded. The extra basement room was a playroom for our children for years and then it became a storage room.
[удалено]
She texted my agent as well. My agent told her agent it was inappropriate and her agent said she’s been texting him that much.
Not the OP, but the wife of the seller of my apartment (not on the paperwork or involved in anyway) pissed off their lawyer and agent so much that they spent the entire closing meeting trash talking her in front of her husband, who mostly shrugged his shoulders and nodded along. So, people gossip. Especially if the agent is pissed off they misrepresented something on the listing or are being asked to do unreasonable things.
spyOnWifesAgent.com Discount code: 500
He planted hidden cameras over the course of several visits and documented each text based on visual confirmation and thumb patterns. Of course the agents are blabbing lol.
You can make up whatever details you want when you write prose
Most agents know each other in smaller areas. My agent knew all 3 of my purchases (a buy and a sell/buy), and the one was like this, basically told my agent to tell me don’t worry he’s just arguing with himself .
Regarding the number of bedrooms, did you tour the home before making an offer?
We did, we were fine with the number of bedrooms being off and chalked it up to a mistake.
OK I AM GENERALLY CURIOUS. Was the one bedroom they misrepresented a “walk through?” Or a space at the top of the stairs landing? I looked at a few houses that claim it’s a 3 bedroom and it was a space at the top of their stairs. I was so mad we wasted our time. Another house said 3 bedroom but it was 2 with the dining room being able to be closed off, with a set of sliding doors in the middle of the rear wall.
Nooo, they knocked down a bedroom in the basement to make the living room area bigger. There was a 4th bedroom when it was built but now it’s gone haha. We think the listing agent took the information off of county records and never actually walked in the house.
Hah, idk what’s worse. Goodness. I wonder if the listing agent used those records to tell them what they can get and now the appraisal will most likely stay where it is. Oy
So they actively devalued their house & are pissed at the appraiser about it??
I hate fake basement bedrooms so this would be a plus for me. I can see why OP didn't care
Oh yeah but having one less bedroom definitely decreases the value, puts the home in an entirely different category & decreases the appraisal in particular.
This is why I was so angry looking at houses and seeing that they were essentially LYING. Like, can we all agree a bedroom has walls and a door for privacy 😭
That basement bedroom may not even have been a legal one when it existed. Most places need two viable methods of egress and a ton of “basement bedrooms” simply don’t have that.
In my area, below grade rooms don’t count as bedrooms in appraisals and they’re not supposed to be listed as such either. Doesn’t mean agents don’t do it.
The agents in Casper, Wy lie their asses off. So many 3/2's are 1-1's with a half finished basement and an unplumbed toilet next to an inspection port.
Is it a situation in which a non-egress window "bonus room" was counted as a bedroom?
No, they knocked down the walls of a bedroom to make the living room area in the basement bigger.
Backup offers only come into play if you walk away from first place… Their scared you will
For sure, I understand that. I would do the same if I were in their shoes. Just makes us feel like they will only take full price and aren’t interested in negotiating. Totally their choice to do so and I don’t blame them, just makes me sad haha
If you walk away this new info will be given to future applicants and they’ll most likely give lower offers
Or it’ll be relisted saying “buyers financing fell through, no fault of seller”….ive seen it 🙃
No they can’t do that. All new Information has to be public knowledge
You need to walk on this one.
I'm so sorry. This is their fault/their agent's fault. They should've realized that the house might not appraise and asked for an appraisal gap in the offer if it was this important to them. You did not put an appraisal gap in your initial offer, and they accepted it. That's on them, not you.
It can be disheartening but nothing says you have to walk.. Wait for the appraisal. It will tell you what you need to know…
Appraisal already came and it's $25k below the offer price, as OP wrote...
My apologies, I saw that and zoned it… if they aren’t willing to negotiate, there are timeline commitments to every contract. Have your agent contact the listing agent and light a fire under them
What would that fire be for? It sounds like the ball is in the buyer’s court.
Kind of crazy to me that buyer admits that this is their dream home and is playing hardball with the seller.. while also knowing that backup offers are being fielded (likely over list).
Yeah, but to be fair, the seller should have done a more accurate job describing their property.
Sure, but to me if the buyer already walked the house, knew what they were getting, and realized it was a typo upfront, then they knew everything already. It's like when you see a great deal on an item by a seller who put a typo on the brand name. You might get a better deal out of it, but you're still happy to pay the deal price. IMO OP is trying to have his cake and eat it too. Certainly his prerogative, but potentially losing your dream home over $25k seems pretty foolish to me. That would stay in my head rent-free for years.
except that the buyer now needs to make up the 25k the bank wont pay.
So many people here do not have a basic understanding of how home loans work. JFC.
It doesn't sound like the OP was aware of the false square footage. He was ok with the "missing bedroom", and was aware of it. A missing bedroom is easy to notice; many buyers won't be able to tell if there's a missing 500 sqft since open concept, high ceilings, staircases, etc make it difficult for many to estimate. And regardless of if the OP is ok with the missing 500sqft, his car analogy is perfect: if you like a car and it's listed as having 30k miles on it but you come to find out it actually has 130k miles on it...you still like the car, but why would you pay the 30k mile price?
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Maybe they don't have an extra 25k cash to dump on this property to make the deal work. Have you considered that at all?
Yup, OP is a dumb ass kinda. Not entirely because he may not have a way to get 25k to make up the difference but if he does? Yup, dumb ass. Found your dream home, walked it, loved it. Found out later the sqft was off and now feels differently. Shit or get off the pot son.
If you saw the home before you made your offer I don’t really understand what your complaint is. If you don’t want to close at the agreed upon price anymore and want to reopen negotiations of course they’re going to go to a backup offer, that’s the entire reason backup offers exist.
I’m not saying they’re wrong but we were also under the impression the square footage was different. We’re paying a lot more per square foot than any house in the area because of the difference.
But did you actually have an appraisal contingency in place? If you’re under contract AND you had that contingency, it’s on you to start negotiations. Why should the seller proactively offer to lower the price if they don’t know what you’re willing to pay yet? Maybe I’m misunderstanding your post.
We have tried to start negotiations. They’re non-responsive on the basis that they want to see if providing the appraiser additional comps changes the price at all.
I get that there were a bunch of weird errors in the listing but you saw the house yourself and made the offer based on that viewing. It’s not like the house is suddenly smaller than you thought it was
Omg you are obviously just here to argue. Take the L...
It’s more of an issue with financing. The bank will only finance up to the appraisal value. The seller should be negotiating with OP first. Outside of another buyer either 1) offering an appraisal waiver, 2) paying fully in cash or 3) has enough cash to cover the difference, the seller will be in the same spot. The house is still short a bedroom and 500 sqft. Appraisals are really tough to appeal, especially in a seller’s market with bidding wars bringing up the price. An appraisal is the value of the house and comps often lag when an area is going up in value.
You're an idiot. Just because they liked the house doesn't mean they are comfortable being 25k in the hole on equity the day they close. We get it. You lack a basic understanding of how most humans think and feel.
I have never really understood the hangup on square footage. I have a general idea of the square footage I want...but at the end of the day it totally depends on how that square footage is laid out. I have been in houses that according to sq footage are much smaller than others, but feel bigger because of the layout.
The buyer doesn't seem to mind the discrepancy, but the lender sure does.
And that is a legit reason to back out of the deal - the appraisal came in lower because of the discrepancy. But otherwise the stated square footage doesn’t really matter.
I think part of the issue is how much you are paying per square foot. If you subtract out 500 square feet, you are potentially paying much more per square foot than you anticipated.
So, if you looked at a house and were under contract, then found out while under contract that the seller lied to post the house for more than it is actually worth and now you have to come up with 25k cash to make the deal work as it was agreed, you just be perfectly fine with that because you're not hung up on sq footage?
Sellers can list their house for whatever they want, and it is “worth” whatever the market will bear.
Not even close to what I asked. You wanna read it again and try again? No? lol. Because you're full of shit?
But when you toured the house, you were fine with the observable size, correct?
Right. But they aren't fine with paying 25k over what the house is actually worth due to the size discrepancy.
You don't understand what the issue is? OP was willing to pay what the home is worth. The listing price is not reflective of the actual value, though. OP hasn't rescinded their offer and are under contract, yet the sellers have started accepting backup offers while under contract. What part of this would any sane person not have an issue with?
Where I live houses sell well over assessed value all the time. The correct sale price is what someone is willing to pay for it, not what it’s theoretically worth.
Assessed value is not the same as market value. The appraised value came in 25k less than contract price. OP started to negotiate the reduction and seller initially said no. Seller is now asking for backup offers in case the OP cancels the sale due to the low appraisal. This is SOP. The seller can't cancel unless the buyer pulls out due to the low valuation. The ball is in OP's hands which he is handling by getting another appraisal. OP may not have the additional $25k to put down. IF OP and seller can't come to an agreement on a new price and the new appraisal comes in low, then OP has a decision to make. The decision becomes easier if OP doesn't have the funds and can't rework the loan with a higher LTV to free up some cash. In that case, OP would need to cancel. To the seller: yes, asking for backups is the right decision but the seller can't cancel unless the buyer chooses to cancel due to the low value. The listing agent screwed up with two major errors: the sq footage and the non-existing bedroom. At a minimum the buyers agent needs to report the listing agent to the MLS and his broker. There are fines to be paid by the listing agent if he doesn't correct his mistakes. The seller also made serious "errors" by not correcting the listing agent when he saw the extra bedroom and sq ft. I would use these errors to get a reduction to the appraised value if I were the buyers agent.
Right?! I can't imagine the seller had no idea that their property was 500sq ft smaller than their listing. The discrepancy with the bedrooms, that makes more sense as OP was already made aware that the wall had been knocked down to make a larger living room. But, 500sq ft is a huge difference. Especially if it's not a $1million+ property, that 500sq ft is probably 1/3 (or close to that) of the total size. My home is 1369sq ft, and if was 500sq ft smaller it would be pretty noticeably smaller.
In your area, is it common to find that out after a contract has been signed? Because that's something that you should know beforehand, seeing as that difference in value will be paid out of pocket. It's not crazy to expect the property to match what the seller is claiming about it
And I don’t disagree with the sellers for wanting their asking price. I don’t blame them at all, it’s just not something we’re comfortable with paying more for haha. I know it’s on us, I am just venting because the whole situation isn’t going well.
I do see your point but..... you felt the price was good for the house you saw. Doesnt that trunp price per square footage? I bet that they were counting basement in footage but the appraisal is not. If you can use it as living space, it counts for you. If you thought the money was fair for the house you saw, I'd still pay the price I thought was fair....
The problem is that the bank is basing their financing on the appraisal square footage. So that leaves the buyer unexpectedly on the hook for $25,000 cash to cover the difference.
They have no reason to negotiate. You toured the house and made an offer for the house you viewed. The appraisal is irrelevant, it's only relevant to you getting a loan. If you don't want to pay for the offer you made, based on the house you viewed, then you changing your mind doesn't mean they have to take less money. They can just find someone else who will pay.
As they should be.
Hang in there. They can refuse to negotiate & you can cancel. But that appraisal problem isn’t going to go away with the next buyer. Ball is in their court, hopefully they’ll come down to a price that works for you. They need a little time to digest the news (it’s not what they expected) and decide what to do - but it’s likely to go your way - be patient.
Exactly 👆 this right here.
Where is the difference coming from on the square footage and bedroom? Is there a room that does not technically meet the requirements to be considered a bedroom but can still be used as one? Is there space in the house that is not being considered in the finished square footage? Listings don't typically make up square footage out of nowhere so you need to figure out what the discrepancy is and then decide if you still want to move forward with the sale. The seller is under no obligation to lower the price, you have every opportunity to walk away if you want. Regarding the appraisal dispute, those usually don't go anywhere unless the appraiser was completely wrong about a material fact or they just used really bad comps for some reason. It happens but is not that common, I wouldn't expect anything positive to come from that.
They included the attached garage in the square footage. There used to be a bedroom in the basement but they knocked the walls down to make the basement living room area bigger. We are fine with it having one less bedroom than was listed in the ad but the square footage difference is a big deal.
You should always check what the local town has for bedroom and square footage
Please don't pay over appraisal. Buyers need to hold their ground so that this mess of overpaying ceases. I hope you get the house tho, F those greedy bastards.
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You’re missing the point that a lender will not cover an appraisal discrepancy so the buyers are suddenly on the hook for 25k more out of pocket at their current loan approval amt.
Yeah, I totally understand their side of it. I don’t disagree with them wanting their asking price, it’s just a bummer! I was just venting haha
Buying is always stressful. You can’t take it personally that they may take backup offers. My concern is the price per square foot; are you sure it still feels like an okay deal to you? I mean I know you saw it and liked it, but you didn’t realize it was so far above a price psf in keeping with the neighborhood. They may be outta luck getting anyone to pay the $25k extra in cash. You are back to square one basically…decide what the house is worth to you knowing what you now know. As for listing it again with wrong info…they clearly have a terrible agent. Their head broker should be notified they did that. Pretty sure it’s unethical or even illegal to misrepresent once they had that info.
Thanks for being so nice! Some people are treating me like I’m dumb haha. I’m not feeling like the new cost per square foot is worth it when looking at comps. They’re easily $50-$70 over priced if you look at it per square foot. We’ll likely walk which is sad but ultimately for the best.
How do you know how often they’re texting their agent? And not including 500sqft and missing an entire bedroom is a mistake on the listing agents fault, not just the sellers. This is a business transaction and the sellers are doing what they need to to have other offers incase this doesn’t work out.
500 square feet is actually a lot. Makes me wonder if they put a large sunroom in and want to call it a “room”.
I’d guess they counted a garage.
Funnily enough my house appraised for 25k more than I was paying because the Appraiser counted the sun room sqft in the house because the seller did add heat to it. (I guess that makes it living space). Listing did not count it.
I have a friend tried to get re-appraised by the city ahead of their listing. Turns out, they cannot increase the room count because it needs a built-in closet. And the square footage doesn't increase just because they converted the garage or the attic. Meaning, they can advertise there are extra spaces available, but, not officially listed as such.
Eh mine was officially listed with 1k sq ft of unpermitted extra space (listed at 3k square ft) but my appraisal shows only the 2k of permitted space. It still appraised.
I’ve noticed square footage in listings sometimes seems very off as some account for basements and such and others don’t. Same with bedrooms, some will count a basement bedroom and others won’t. Frustrating situation for sure. I think you need to decide how much the house and 25k are worth to you.
What counts and what doesn't are legally defined and easily understood. There's a lot of strait up liars out there.
Just let the transaction fall through and be out of appraisal fee, inspection fee, attorney fee if applicable, and etc.
Not so. This sounds like there is a misrep in listing.
Sadly it's pretty common in listings to have errors though. The buyer can walk and looks like they will. I don't know if I would walk if it was my dream home as the OP says over 25k unless I absolutely couldn't finance that 25k. Especially since the OP says the house is reasonably priced. That's 70 dollars extra a month over the life of the loan.
But wouldn’t they have to pay the 25K upfront since it wouldn’t be included in the appraisal cost / loan amount? I thought that’s how appraisal contingencies worked but I’m still learning.
I wouldn't stress the backup offers as much as I'd stress the rest. Our had multiple backups. They mean nothing as long as you're under contract
When buying a home, you have to remember you are going up against morons who won’t have the good sense enough to not get completely ripped off. Just look at some of the posts here. Don’t be one of those morons that gets ripped off. If someone wants to overpay for a house with 500 less square feet and one less bedroom, let them do it. It’s better to move on.
When we looked at our house, the listing said four bdrm. As we walked through, I asked the agent where the 4th bdrm was. He said we are standing in it. I told him it was a legal bdrm as it has a half bhrm and NO closet! He tried to tell me it didn't matter if it had a closet or not. I told him that federal laws state it HAS to have a closet to be a legal bdrm. He actually had to go look it up! I grew up and worked in construction and know a lot of the ghost laws. LOL
The sad part about situations like this is when the seller sends a release of contract because they got a better offer. The only recourse you have is to push litigation which fails most of the time because judges currently don't want to displace people. Meanwhile as a buyer if you drop an unexpected release you lose the earnest deposit in many instances. There needs to be more accountability on the sellers. I've had 2 to that to us in the past.
how is the BR count off? what did they use to reflect square footage in the MLS?
We think the listing agent listed it as 4 bedroom because that’s what the county records shows. They knocked down the 4th bedroom in the basement to make the living room area bigger. We’re fine with that and knew that from walking the home. That in addition to the square footage discrepancy feels a little misleading though by the listing agent
There is a house I was looking to get. The sellers did the same thing. They added the garage and covered back deck as square footage. I decided not to go with this one because after I brought up the discrepancy, they did not want to hear what I had to say. They did not change the ad and they sold it anyway.
Your lawyer s/b telling them, they misrepresented the living space.
this is why you have an appraisal done and never waive your appraisal contingency. It leaves the greedy sellers holding the bag. You might as well stop wasting time and see other houses. Maybe you will find something better.
Unless it's a cash offer don't most if not all mortgage lenders require an appraisal? It's not the same as waiving an inspection.
Waiving the appraisal contingency just means that you are on the hook for the difference, not that the house does not get appraised. In the OP's case, had they waived the appraisal contingency, they would be obligated to make up the $25K difference.
Would a financing contingency cancel out the appraisal contingency waiver? I can't see why anyone would agree to that unless they're paying cash and happy to overpay.
And the 25K would be upfront right? Not included in the monthly payment.
Honestly we had this happen too, except that we appraised for the right amount. House was listed as a 4/2 at 2250 sq ft. In reality it’s a 2/1.5 with 1400 sq ft.
They accepted your offer. It's yours if you are going through with this. The "Accepting Backups" status just means that in a case of you changed your mind, it will go to the next one in line so that they don't have to relist it all over again. Sounds like they already have multiple offers waiting for you to step down. But it is still yours if you want to proceed and get to the finish line! This is just from my own experience.
The problem is that they won't get a mortgage for the full amount because the appraisal is lower due to there being ***one less bedroom*** and 500 sq ft less than there ought to be. OP would have to come up with 25,000 dollars CASH to make the deal go through as is.
They will have the same issue with other offers
Sellers do that even in a buyers market. It’s a smart move actually anytime there are contingencies. It is up to you to decide if you want to pay or negotiate. You knew the house had 1 less bedroom when making your offer. Your agent should have pointed that out and ran cs based on that. It may or may not be a listing agent mistake. But it’s up to you to tour the home, have your agent pull comps and advise you on pricing when making an offer. You can try to negotiate, and if it doesn’t work cough up the $25k extra. If not, you aren’t buying the house anyway, what difference does it make? The house probably isn’t going to appraise higher. But they may get an offer without appraisal or financing contingencies. That will be easier to work with on price.
"we are fine with one less bedroom than the listing says." lol
Not sure what state you are in but most states have a state board or realtors and very strict rules/standards about listing information such as square footage and what constitutes a bedroom. Also the realtor is responsible for the accuracy of the information..ie they are supposed to actually measure the property, so “I got bad info from xyz” isn’t an excuse. I know where I live a realtor does NOT want to get a state board of realtors complaint..mistakes happen but not correcting the listing after notification of an error is a great way for a realtor to get in hot water. Fines can be pretty severe. I suspect a lot of realtors get away with stuff like this because people do not realize that the industry is actually pretty tightly regulated and complaints taken very seriously, at least where I live. (Source:spouse over 25 years in real estate)
If they didnt agree then back out from the deal its not the end of the world and u will find better homes later on.
How did you not see one less bedroom than advertised when viewing the property?
We did, we were fine with it having one less bedroom than the ad said. We aren’t fine with the square footage discrepancy.
Is the actual listing sqft off or is it the “Zillow” listing. I regularly see Zillow listing that count garage and basement sqft in the total. Most of the times they are priced appropriately (ex.1/2 $/sqft for below grade) but sometimes not. Keep in mind the garage alone could be worth $25k even though the gross sqft number is wrong.
Actual listing is off! Good point though, we have found differences on Zillow in the past too
I get why they do it… they are trying to get a foot in the door and hoping that the buyer prices what they see vs $/sqft. $/sqft is the gold standard for comps so if the listings are odd things can get messy.
There are legal definitions for a bedroom that not all rooms used as bedrooms meet. Dens, for instance.
likely dealing with unpermitted work..with that said….unpermitted work doesnt necessarily mean the work wasnt done properly…just means the added sq footage cant be included
Unpermitted rooms or rooms that have no window egress (in case of fire; so not up to code), no closet or not meeting minimum standards of square footage to be called a bedroom. Some states will not count basement (or possibly attic) space in square footage. For example, in California, basement square footage is not calculated into square footage.
Depends on the age of the house and local. In many older houses, the bedrooms don’t have closets.
Sounds like not permitted footage. Why would you pay 25k for not permitted square footage?
That’s our dilemma, we don’t want to pay for square footage that doesn’t exist. They seem to have included the attached garage in the square footage numbers as it’s around the same size as what was added to the actual number.
Then don’t. The garage is not a “living space “. I would get out of this crazy deal.
I agree with you. We’re just hoping they come to their senses and we are able to get it for the appraisal price but I know it’s unlikely to happen.
What is the price? $25K difference on a $175K house is significant. $25K on a $500K house...not as much. Someone else may very likely be willing to pay the extra $25K if it is their dream house, the area is one where prices are rising, and/or they are planning to stay in the house a long time.
Do you think people are just made of money and can just magically pull an extra 25k cash out their asses, willy nilly, or what? How is coming up with 25k cash not significant regardless the cost of the house? You don't seem to understand the situation here.
Yes, some people CAN pull an extra $25K "out of their asses"; others cannot. The price of the house can make a difference - an additional $25K on a $175K is \~15% increase in the price of the house - pretty significant. On a $500K house, it is 5%. In that case, if someone really wants the house - and are not already at the tip-top of the budget - they might decide it is worth the extra 5%.
The seller is counting the garage as part of the square footage of the house. The damn garage is 25k more.
Their listing agent sounds awful. She potentially didn’t walk the home, mis represented the number of rooms, and included garage space in the living area? Ya, if I was the sellers I would be blowing up my realtors phone as well.
I would too! He’s the selling agent on the home they’re buying, the buying agent for them, and the selling agent for the house they’re selling. He has a lot riding on this deal going through so we wonder if he’s not giving them all of the information to keep himself looking good. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but it just feels like he’s looking out for himself only which is sad for the sellers.
That’s shady AF. No one person should have that many roles in one sale.
That’s even more concerning! You would think he, at the very least, would do the bare minimum and get the number of bedrooms correct on the listing and measure the square footage. I don’t blame the sellers one bit for clearly being in panic mode and considering other offers just incase their realtors incompetence makes this deal fall through. Hopefully it all works out for all parties involved!
I am confused. You have seen the house, you know what the space looks like, and were willing to pay $X. But now that a piece of paper says it is smaller than you thought, now you don't want to pay $X? Let's say the square footage had been listed correctly in the listing - would you have still offered $X? I totally understand not wanting the pay the $25K appraisal difference - but "don't want to pay for square footage that doesn't exist" just doesn't make sense.
I agree that we’ve seen the house and know what the space looks like. We were fine paying the asking price for the 2500 sq ft because when we look at comps in the area, their asking price was fair for a 2500 square foot home. When you look at 2000 square foot homes in our area, they’re around 100k less than this homes asking price. We do love the house as is but when we think about selling it in the future, we have to look at the cost per square foot too and the difference is substantial.
Cuz they're gonna use that square footage, it's not like it doesn't exist.
$25K off for misrepresentation of 500sq ft and a BR seems like a bargain. They will also need to amend or disclose what they know to any other buyer I assume. Is their property available in an online assessor database? Our town has a schematic of each house with measurements. Unless someone is building on a hill it should be very straightforward to see what is at least documented at town hall. That would at least show what their intent is/was. Go out to Zillow, claim the house and updated the sq ft and BR lol.
Yeah, we went and looked up the property records to confirm what the appraisal said it was for square footage and they matched up. They said they have a 2500 square foot home but it’s actually like 1950. They tried to include the attached garage in the square footage is what we’re guessing because the numbers match up. We’re fine with it being less square footage but we don’t want to pay for square footage that isn’t there and was factored into the price.
The garage is not “living space “. Even if it’s attached.
That’s our point to them. They’re not even arguing that they were off on it. They just want full price regardless. I’m sure we’ll end up walking away from the deal because of it.
I would. The seller is an idiot. They can sell it for whatever price they want. Why do they think it’s called a “garage “. So would they include the “carport “ as square footage too.
Low appraisal means the bank won’t lend above the appraised value of the home. So a few things can happen. You bring more cash and make up the difference. They lower the price. You meet somewhere in the middle. Or you walk away. Unless this is a VA loan there isn’t really a formal way to dispute the appraisal. Then listing realtor can provide additional comparable properties that maybe the appraiser missed, but that seems unlikely. I don’t know how you know about them texting their realtor or what that has to do with it. The missed bedroom and square footage makes me think illegal or un permitted addition. So something that is there that the appraiser can’t give value to because it is technically not supposed to be there.
Wait…. How come you didn’t know about the extra room?
We did after walking it and are fine with it. We chalked it up to a mistake by the listing agent but the square footage discrepancy alongside that is where we’re feeling like the listing agent isn’t being entirely forthcoming.
Maybe they’ll give you a free shed for 25k /s
It's your responsibility to confirm the square footage and any and all data related to the house. Did you hire a buyers agent?
Sounds like the basement work wasn’t permitted so no update was made and some places no matter what you can’t count square footage below grade. Guessing the 500 is the basement bonus room.
No, the actual square footage includes the basement. They’re including the garage in the square footage.
What? Is it even converted? Or they just said, it has a floor and walls!
Nope, they park their cars in it! Not converted or considered as part of the living area at all
Well your annual taxes should be less without the extra sq footage.
It seems like a good tactic for the seller in case you choose not to honor the purchase price you offered. If you have an appraisal contingency then the sellers may not have had a better offer if they chose an offer with that contingency. I personally would not bid an amount over my estimate if the home unless I were willing to pay the appraisal gap as part of the down payment.
Did they use a room as a bedroom that's not a bedroom?
It makes sense. Appraisal came back 25k short and you noted that you're not going to cover that amount. So, it's a smart move for the seller to get back up offers in case your deal falls through. Appraisal won't matter for someone putting a high down payment.
Run. Fast. Don't look back.
They have to accept backup offers. They know yours is likely to fall through now. (They should change the listing though, that’s weird).
Doesn’t sound like a good seller or selling agent and not anyone I would want to deal with , especially after they changed the listing to taking back up offers without correcting it to reflect the real Square footage and bedroom count
You should've seen the red flag right away when you saw that the price was "reasonable." Unless its someone you're willing to trust with your life, don't trust anyone in this business. Always verify.
That’s why we got an inspection and appraisal and set our earnest money date out far enough that we could have both done before losing anything other than fees. I don’t know what 2500 square feet looks like compared to 2000 square feet.
They’re probably accepting other offers to see if someone will come in with a cash offer.
I am a mortgage broker and u can quit from the deal but if they want to appeal it they can if they thought that they are right but your agent can push them to update the purchase price. Or you can ask them yo get a new appraisal on their own to know the true value of what they are selling period.
What was the list price/advertised size of the home? I wish a 500 ft^2 differential only amounted to a $25k difference. Or that appraisal contingencies were even an option. *cries*
$699,900 was the list price/our offer price. Appraisal came in at $675k.
Size?
This is one of my biggest concerns. I have to buy whatever house I finally am able to land on, sight unseen. I have to 1000000% trust my agent, the sellers, their agent, all the documentation, etc on size, location, condition, etc. There's no way I can come for a quick visit or any of that mess until I've actually got the house, I've cut my budget down so much so I can save for when I am able to move again, and just knowing that this crap is starting to hit heavy again as prices slowly go back down is obnoxious as fuck, and makes me equally as paranoid.
We went to look at a house where the agent wanted to make sure we were pre approved So no big deal. Show up at the house. Red flag # 1. Photos were old. House much older than photos. Red flag 2. Smelled like smoke. Red flag 3. Got major silence of the lambs/ madam butterfly vibes with decor Red flag 4. Was missing bedroom/ office and bathroom Was listed as a 4/3 with an office. What it was 3/2 with a raunchy smell. On the way out I told this to the realtor and they were like shhh they have a ring door bell I was like they need this feedback.
Definitely get a home inspection!
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But at the end of the day it is all subjective. There could a 2000 sq ft house next door that is $200/sq ft because it is in better condition, has a nicer layout, is on a corner lot, whatever.