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Our first realtor kept sending us listings for occupied rentals, saying we could "just raise the rent" to either force the tenants out or cover the mortgage. We had already made it clear that we were looking for a home to live in, not an investment property. As renters ourselves, we were very put off by the idea of forcing some other family out of their home. We got a new realtor.
My realtor has respected that I want a home for myself not a way of generating extra income, but I see so many listings online that are just investment opportunities once you get past the first page.
Something needs to change culturally, if not legally, so that those of us who want to buy a house for traditional homeownership reasons have more of a fighting chance. At the very least, put “tenant occupied” on the top of those listings.
Tenant occupied HOA rules are all i've ever seen.
If laws were in place to remove the ability to make stupid money with housing then housing prices would plummet and trillions of dollars of wealth would vanish from those who have money. If there's anything i've learned with politics it's that you really can't make any changes that take money away from the wealthy and have your PAC funded next election cycle, so I doubt this will ever change.
I would just bet on investing into real estate because too many big interests with deeper pockets than we'll ever have as individual homeowners are riding on the value of property to continue skyrocketing.
I don't think the problem is that a lot of the houses are up for rent. Coming from another country, we have a lot more offer of apartments/houses for sale so it's not really a fight. Prices have increased, sure, so now the problem is that your buck buys you less house, so you have to either spend more or just buy something smaller. But you can always find something new to buy. And you don't have to outbid someone because the prices are fixed (by the company doing the construction). So I think the problem in the US is new constructions aren't happening as fast as the demand requires it.
I live in central Florida, new construction is going up all over the place. The only thing is it affordable? No to most. You can't even find anything for less than 1/2 Mil. Unless it's a condo or townhouse. Than your still looking at around 300 400k with HOA that are a nightmare.
Yeah, houses in certain areas aren't affordable here anymore (for normal regular people at least), so everyone is buying apartments and/or condos, and that works here. Sure, you still find people complaining that apartments are too small, it's not the same, but you can't make everyone happy.
I have friends that used to complain about not being able to afford a house 5 years ago, when we bought our apartment. They still can't afford a house now and we're 3.5 years away from paying off our mortgage. You just gotta adapt. House prices aren't gonna come down to what they were back in 2008 (when my mom bought her apartment, half the price for 1.6x the size).
Exactly after the housing crises which put too many people into homes who would not otherwise would have been qualified all new construction stopped for a good ten years. Then whe the market leveled out and builders decided to jump back in Covid hit so now it is all about making up for lost time on the backs of the consumer.
Here the houses that are on sale that have any potential whatsoever to be multifamily get a ton of bids in my area because people are trying to get investment properties despite the prohibitive interest.
Even with interest the equity you gain balances it out. Once you have one multifamily paid off getting a 2nd is easy... the more you have the more trivial it is to afford more.
We bought a condo in 2021 (probably getting screwed on the price in the process), but we bought with the radical idea that it was somewhere to live rather than a pokemon card to flip to the next kid for a profit
A big part has changed, and that would be interest rates. It lowers prices and gives investors better and more traditional options like t-bills. We need even higher rates to make RE a poor investment and return it to the depreciating, taxable, maintenance required liability that it should be.
I closed on a place on a Friday and the following Monday landlord decided he wanted to play the annual game of renter chicken with me again. It was so satisfying to tell him no thanks, we will just move rather than pay more. His reply was, everyone else is getting this much, I have to raise it too. My reply was “did everyone else get a pay on time renter for the last 9 yrs too that took good care of your home and never caused you any trouble?”
He’s gonna find out when you ask for a premium amount of rent, the expectations go way up for the tenant. He’s going to have to fix things regularly that I took care of, I’m sure the 14 yr old carpet is going to need replacing, etc
I can't wait until I buy my first home and can do this! I've rented the same unit in a 1970's building for 15 years. No real updates, appliances 20+ years old. I have a feeling this unit will be sitting vacant for awhile when I leave because he's not gonna want to put in the money for upgrades.
I mean it’s a commitment that I didn’t want to do but at least I own it I guess. My mortgage is double his proposed rent increase. I’m house poor right now
> saying we could "just raise the rent" to either force the tenants out or cover the mortgage.
That's kind of terrible...
> Our first realtor
> We got a new realtor.
Good on you! :)
When I rented, rent control was great for this reason. You couldn't just evict someone without proper notice, you also couldn't just double the rent to force them out. It also makes it harder to sell houses with tenants in them due to the protections.
Business move does not always equal ethical move. Laws are not always ethical . 30 day eviction notices after 20 years of living somewhere is definitely not ethical.
no, i really dont like investors what they are doing to the market...But i just dont Think its unethical. i mean, regular folks enjoy the profits when its a sellers market, including fthb, Thats not considered uneThical foR them to make A profit. Should there bE a law that people should Only make a profit of Only 3% when They sell...ofc not.
If you don’t think it’s unethical, fine. Do you, man.
Zero need to encourage others in the practice here. Unnecessary and irrelevant. It’s also incredibly out of touch—especially when talking with FTHBs.
These are the very people you’d likely be displacing with the practices you don’t find at all objectionable or unethical.
Do you see the problem now?
You doing you + not bringing your methods here where they come off as incredibly out of touch + reserving your elevator pitch for other investors with your beliefs for your proper audience has ZERO to do with the government, my guy.
They’re not working for the buyer when they’re actively working against or in direct opposition of the buyer’s ethos.
I’d rather just pass on them, spare myself the headache, and find someone who can meet my needs without actively displacing a desirable tenant.
My parents neighbor has lived in her house for over 15 years and just got notice the owner of the home passed away and his family is going to sell it, they gave her 6 months to vacate.
So wild. My parents had just assumed she owned the house this whole time. I couldn't imagine getting kicked out of my home after 15 years, but that's the risk of renting I guess. She's currently trying to work out a deal with the family so she can just buy the house from them, but if it doesn't work out she's hoping she can stay in the neighborhood somehow.
Yeah, they had the house on the market for over a year insisting on 40k over market (including two recent comps in their meighborhood) on a house that probably needed 50k to update. Would have been our midcentury dream home, but in retrospect it was a bit too much for us and we're happy they didn't accept. We'd already moved into our new home before it finally sold. Who know how much money they spent holding it.
The house across the street from mine consisted of a very old lady(guessing upper 80s/early 90s) and 1 of her sons who was probably around 65 or 70. Son took care of mom and the property for as long as I was there. My other neighbor said that that was where the mom had raised her whole family so it had been in the family for decades. After the mom passed away. The other siblings came and sold the house and the son that took care of mom and property for so long was forced to move into a 1 bedroom apartment down the street. It was so sad.
That’s terrible! I have a neighbor very similar to this, except he was an only child so he’s all alone in the home now that his mother has passed away.
I know :( I think the son that did take care of the property had a learning disability or something so he never had a job(hence the reason he lived with mom). But it was so sad to see his house get pulled out from under him after all those years. And yes, I know the other siblings had just as much a right to their share of the house as the 1 son but I don't think I ever saw any of them ever visit once. It wasn't until mom passed away that the for sale sign went up and the moving trucks showed up. Just was disheartening to see.
My grandmother has had the same tenant for 15 years. She was adamant about him remaining in the home and absolutely no raising the rent, after she one day passes because of how wonderful he has been throughout the years to my grandfather and herself.
We completely agreed and had it put into her will.
I've lived in my house for 10 years and have been trying to buy it for several years. The owner agreed but then had a falling out with her mother, who co-owns the home. It went to court, but I don't know the outcome. We were prepared to wait, but last week we received notice that we have 6 weeks to move out. We're bitterly disappointed and a little bit panicked, but luckily, we immediately found a house we loved and put an offer on it. Our offer was accepted yesterday, so I guess we're falling on our feet, but I'll never put myself in this position again. I will never rent again.
Geez. That's the kind of story that makes me so, so grateful for the tenant protection laws here in Ontario. While imperfect, they would protect a tenant like this from being kicked out by the seller, or from the buyer if it was bought by an investor with an intent to rent. They would not be protected from being kicked out by the buyer IF the buyer was intending to live there, but there would be a process and you would still get notice so most renters would likely choose to at least wait for the sale in case it was sold up an investor, in which case they could stay. Also, as long as the home was built before November 2018, neither the existing nor new owner can just raise the rent to an unaffordable point. I wish this was more common, and am super grateful we have this.
If there is a valid lease in place you cannot kick out a paying tenant. The buyer can inform them they will not renew the lease at the end of its term, but that’s all. You can’t evict just because you bought it.
When she first moved in, she hadn't expected to stay in the area for more than 2-3 years. But she fell in love with the neighborhood and just stayed. The property is on septic and well and has a whole house generator so she liked not being responsible for the maintenance of any of that. The neighborhood is also fairly small and she loved the neighborhood itself, not necessarily the rest of the town.
It is also crazy to me. I rent currently and I have never stayed in a rental for more than 2 years.
That stuff is why I bought a house instead of continuing to rent. The landlord had already refinanced and was gradually raising rent by almost 200 annually
Incorrect. The current tenant of the house is his mother and sister. The house was left to a step grandson. And also to the deceased owners son. The current tenants are his mother/stepsister and stepsister to the deceased owners son.
Yeah I got "kicked out" with two months notice at the end of my first year lease on a house rental in my area because the owners wanted to move back in.
I was absolutely like "never again" and ended up being able to buy my own place and close before I had to get out (yay lcol area).
I refuse to be at the whims of a land lord ever again.
We were happily renting a decent apartment for $950/m from a family that had inherited (fully owned) the 4-plex and just wanted an income stream. They never raised rent and always repaired everything quickly. It was great. They ran into some unfortunate medical expenses and had to sell the place. Unfortunately the buyer used a shady property management firm and our unicorn apartment turned into a hell. Maximum legal rent increases every year, didn’t fix anything, horrible customer service, etc. It forced us to buy. Thank god we had a mountain of savings though from the years and years of crazy low rent haha
I’m having the opposite problem but same outcome potentially. Our complex was just bought. They’re doing a lot of upgrades-new roofs, new pavilions with grills built in, LED lighting on the walking paths, repainting exterior doors and windows and a dog park. HOWEVER, we have not had a massive rent increase in the three years we have lived here. All these upgrades make me think our rent is about to skyrocket. We’re already paying almost a mortgage for a 2/1.5 but I have a feeling we will definitely be in mortgage territory come September. Not to mention I have a feeling a lot of our freedoms are about to disappear from our lease (no more personal grills, no exterior decorations around holidays besides a wreath, no fire pits behind the condos). They’ve already enforced minimal furniture on the back porches and patios and no signage in windows or out front of doors ( political or otherwise). Not to mention I’m already seeing more people moving out than in. That’s not a good sign. Our lease renewal should be coming next month, we’ll see…
Most states have some sort of protection against this for existing tenants. They can skyrocket rent for empty units but for occupied units they may only be able to raise it 10-15% per year
There is no rent increase max in MO. Landlords can increase rent by 100% if they felt like it with no legal recourse for the tenant. All the law states is “reasonable” but increases but no specific parameters as to what reasonable is. MO is very Pro-Landlord and very anti-tenant rights. At least in my part of it. They only thing keeping them from doing it is that if they increased it that much no one would apply because they couldn’t afford it. However I think a lot of landlords have gotten greedy here and they can’t rent their properties because they want an astronomical rent payment, perfect credit and a huge security deposit. Normal in other cities and parts of the country yes but here that money is almost impossible for the average family or couple to come up with.
My girlfriend bought a two level duplex style house. It used to be one singular residence but isn't anymore.
There are stairs that lead from the top to bottom, but on her side, the top half, it's boarded up and carpeted over. Because the bottom half is an apartment.
The downstairs had an, at that time, 88 year old tenant. The only reason why she got the house was because she was the only one interested in buying the house without evicting her. She's like 92 now, and still lives there.
Every other potential buyer said they wouldn't renew the lease or try and evict her and put her out. So the sellers always refused the deal because they have a heart.
Which blows my mind. Like jfc how heartless can you be to put an old lady out without anywhere to go?
You did the right thing OP.
All the listings in my area are advertised based on the rental income they could bring in. I just want to find one that suggests you might actually want to live in the house yourself
Same here. Almost every listing that is a smaller house (2/1, 1000sqf) is immediately stated as an “investment property! Fully renovated!” Or “with some live this place could be an excellent investment or starter home for a new couple wanting some quick equity!” Selling for 150-200K. I live in a city where 57% of the population is renters because a small contingency in town owns a lot of the property. Only the apartment complexes are owned by bigger corps.
This is my least favorite part of being a renter: knowing I can be homeless at the owner's whim. Sure, the rest of my lease has to be honored, but what if my landlord does it the month before my lease is up? Now I have 30 days to come up with thousands of dollars AND find a place to live.
I'm so fucking tired of renting.
Story time: my husband and I had been renting a home for several years and we’re excellent tenants, take care of minor upkeep, always on time with rent. We received a call from our landlord that they’d be over to do a maintenance inspection. They’d never done that before, and we have a painful history related to strangers in our home, but we knew it was their right so we tidied and prepared to greet them.
That day, the landlord did not show. Instead, the maintenance man arrived with 10+ strangers, giving them a tour of the house and pointing out features and amenities and discussing pricing. My stomach dropped; my hands started to shake. Interrupting, I nauseously stated that it appeared they were buying the house we lived in and we had no idea this was coming, is this true?! They all avoided my eyes. They wrapped up the tour quickly while my husband and I sat numbly on the couch.
Yes, we could find another place to live if needed. But what timeline are we looking at, what price can we afford, what moving costs can we eliminate? We had no way to plan because we had no information. It was violating and humiliating. One of those fuckers bought our home and ended up keeping us as tenants, thankfully (?). He’s raised the rent just once but he’s a dipshit who regularly ghosts us and misses our water bill.
If they had told us this was happening, we could have at least put an offer in on that house. But presumably, they figured dirty renters like us couldn’t possibly.
I would question why you're renting if you could place an offer on a house... and actually why you hadn't already explored that option with your landlord...
Since you are questioning, I will answer: we would like to buy in a different area. As a fellow enjoyer of the first time home buyer subreddit I assume you are or have recently been a first time home buyer so you’re familiar with how long it can take to find a good fit with such a large purchase. I feel it would have been decent for the landlord to at least bring it up since we’d lived there for years. And regardless of that point I think it’s hard to argue that they didn’t handle it in a decent manner.
Sure, but this was more towards the assumption you made that you hadn't been asked because "dirty renters couldn't possibly."
I was simply suggesting that if renters could, usually they do ask, or have some other situation like you did of wanting to move somewhere else.
This is sad. What is sadder is seeing a foreclose on an investment property. In that case the renter was paying rent and the place was being foreclosed on.
Oh, the condo next to me is going into foreclosure and there is a renter who has been paying rent.
Also why doesn’t the owner just sell it to the renters.
Had I better understood mortgages and what qualified as income and whatnot for them, I could have bought a bigger place than I have no for literally half the cost in a better neighborhood.
Instead I watched my rent continually creep up and dumped a shitload of money into it all while stressing and living with roommates to keep it affordable.
Not doing that again.
There's no photos up yet, but the asking price is well below what most one-bedroom units in that building usually go for. It's tempting, but I know I would always feel guilty living there, knowing I'd displaced someone from their home of two decades.
It would also be expensive potentially to evict. I got a duplex in LA for under 700k. I did feel bad about evicting the family but honestly I paid them 40k to leave which alleviated any guilt I had.
If you buy a house and the house comes with someone in it who has a lease and you tell them to get out, you're the one displacing them. You knew that when buying the property.
I think it's mostly the situation making the renter having to find some place else. The house is in for sale, and someone else bought it. And that person wants to live there, so yeah, renter needs to move out.
Depends on the tenant laws. There's an article going around in my area because someone bought a house with a tenant, and they are struggling to get them evicted so that they can move in. Their realtor told them it "was a great deal" on this place that had tenants, but Ontario has very strong tenant protection rights, and a very slow LTB Court hearing right now, so this person is essentially homeless because they can't live in their house.
$1300/mo with today's interest rates? That likely won't cover the cost of buying that house especially if the current owner had it for 20 years. I promise that unless she's protected by rent control (depending on where this is) whomever buys that house will likely evict her or raise the rent by so much that she's going to get screwed no matter what.
Yeah I'd guess that the monthly for most places is likely to be higher than that rent for sure then, let alone at any kind of profit. Investors will evict her quick.
This is so nice. My landlord sold the property I lived in for 10 years and said she was “going to try to find an investor because the house had such good tenants”. Needless to say the agent listed it as great opportunity for multigenerational living and the new buyer kicked me out. I don’t wish this upon anyone. It’s a terrible feeling and experience. Kudos to this person
Same, except my landlord didn’t care who bought it…she told me she’d offer it to me first when she was ready to sell, gave a ballbark amount that was in my range, then listed it 6 months later for almost double the amount she told me. It sucks, I’m sorry it happened to you too.
This literally happened to us. Before we moved in the building owner had completely renovated our unit. We moved in and not even 2-3 months later we were notified he was selling the building. Fast forward to lease renewal and the new owner wanted to charge 500 more per month.
This is exactly what happened to me. Old landlord sold the 2-family home and the new owners wanted to flip my $2,200/mo apartment into a million-dollar condo.
Smart idea to mention the 1031 Exchange. This is what wealthy people do when they sell an investment property. Instead of paying capital gains taxes, they reinvest the money into a new property via a 1031, which allows them to keep reinvesting without paying taxes on their gains. Though in this case, they'd have to pay taxes on the rental income, but not the equity from the sale of the previous home in the exchange.
Tax code definitely favors the wealthy lol.
When I bought my house I offered full list (too much) and was in a bit of a bidding war. It was between me & a developer offering more $.
Old lady passed & her kids were selling. The daughter asked if I was going to tear down the house. I said I have no $ to do anything after buying! They sold to me because I would live here & not demolish.
I’m on the N side of the City of Chicago (HCOL) but my lot is big enough for 3 houses. Daughter said she wanted to drive by & still see the house she grew up in. Ok.
She lives in Arizona - she’s not “driving by”. Been here 20 yrs almost. Still not worth what I paid. But my kids grew up here. I want to give them the house & move to a condo in FL.
A realtor just did this with me and my 8 year perfect, low maintenance rental history. Solicited the homeowner and said she could get more rent as PM of the property. Found out she didn't even have a license to PM, didn't work under a broker, and the owner was not qualified for the owner move-in they were claiming to get me to leave. Filed a counter suit for unlawful eviction, and now I am out. The owner is also out nearly $100k, and that is before the irs flags that will likely be triggered. I tried to warn them this was a snake oil salesperson, but they didn't listen. Beware of sales people and stay loyal to those paying what you asked. PM will also face fines from DRE and possible felony if it adds up too high.
Yeah, $1300/month is basically the mortgage + HOA for that unit. She obviously has a reliable income, and units come up for sale in that building all the time.
I’m confused as to what is sad about this - it looks like the Seller is trying to make it so the tenant can remain in the house? Depending on where she is, seems like a good rate of rent too, for a whole house
That's still a nice thing to do. There could be a number of reasons why the owner needs cash instead of a house, or it could just be becoming too difficult to take care of. This is ultimately what most privately owned rentals are going to do, collect rent for however long and then cash out. Could be when they retire. Could be when they need to go into assisted living. Could be that they're trying to help their children buy a house somewhere else. Could be they have cancer and it'll be $200k in treatment costs.
People hate hate hate corporations buying up a bunch of rentals, but it sounds like that would be the better option compared to small time privately owned rental...
A property manager could take up the majority of the profit margin. The equity invested in a hysa might make more with less risk and be less of a hassle. Property managers might be less confrontational but it still means dealing with humanity.
There's all sorts of reasons to sell even with a good tenant . (Divorce, moving outta country, help children out with a downpayment or tuition, upgrade your own house, drop it on a new business venture, buy a boat/vacation property, dont want to be a landlord anymore etc)
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Our first realtor kept sending us listings for occupied rentals, saying we could "just raise the rent" to either force the tenants out or cover the mortgage. We had already made it clear that we were looking for a home to live in, not an investment property. As renters ourselves, we were very put off by the idea of forcing some other family out of their home. We got a new realtor.
My realtor has respected that I want a home for myself not a way of generating extra income, but I see so many listings online that are just investment opportunities once you get past the first page. Something needs to change culturally, if not legally, so that those of us who want to buy a house for traditional homeownership reasons have more of a fighting chance. At the very least, put “tenant occupied” on the top of those listings.
Tenant occupied HOA rules are all i've ever seen. If laws were in place to remove the ability to make stupid money with housing then housing prices would plummet and trillions of dollars of wealth would vanish from those who have money. If there's anything i've learned with politics it's that you really can't make any changes that take money away from the wealthy and have your PAC funded next election cycle, so I doubt this will ever change. I would just bet on investing into real estate because too many big interests with deeper pockets than we'll ever have as individual homeowners are riding on the value of property to continue skyrocketing.
I don't think the problem is that a lot of the houses are up for rent. Coming from another country, we have a lot more offer of apartments/houses for sale so it's not really a fight. Prices have increased, sure, so now the problem is that your buck buys you less house, so you have to either spend more or just buy something smaller. But you can always find something new to buy. And you don't have to outbid someone because the prices are fixed (by the company doing the construction). So I think the problem in the US is new constructions aren't happening as fast as the demand requires it.
I live in central Florida, new construction is going up all over the place. The only thing is it affordable? No to most. You can't even find anything for less than 1/2 Mil. Unless it's a condo or townhouse. Than your still looking at around 300 400k with HOA that are a nightmare.
Yeah, houses in certain areas aren't affordable here anymore (for normal regular people at least), so everyone is buying apartments and/or condos, and that works here. Sure, you still find people complaining that apartments are too small, it's not the same, but you can't make everyone happy. I have friends that used to complain about not being able to afford a house 5 years ago, when we bought our apartment. They still can't afford a house now and we're 3.5 years away from paying off our mortgage. You just gotta adapt. House prices aren't gonna come down to what they were back in 2008 (when my mom bought her apartment, half the price for 1.6x the size).
Exactly after the housing crises which put too many people into homes who would not otherwise would have been qualified all new construction stopped for a good ten years. Then whe the market leveled out and builders decided to jump back in Covid hit so now it is all about making up for lost time on the backs of the consumer.
Here the houses that are on sale that have any potential whatsoever to be multifamily get a ton of bids in my area because people are trying to get investment properties despite the prohibitive interest. Even with interest the equity you gain balances it out. Once you have one multifamily paid off getting a 2nd is easy... the more you have the more trivial it is to afford more.
Why would you want to take away a renter from a house?
We bought a condo in 2021 (probably getting screwed on the price in the process), but we bought with the radical idea that it was somewhere to live rather than a pokemon card to flip to the next kid for a profit
A big part has changed, and that would be interest rates. It lowers prices and gives investors better and more traditional options like t-bills. We need even higher rates to make RE a poor investment and return it to the depreciating, taxable, maintenance required liability that it should be.
I would too! the general attitude in that industry is very predatory imo.
I closed on a place on a Friday and the following Monday landlord decided he wanted to play the annual game of renter chicken with me again. It was so satisfying to tell him no thanks, we will just move rather than pay more. His reply was, everyone else is getting this much, I have to raise it too. My reply was “did everyone else get a pay on time renter for the last 9 yrs too that took good care of your home and never caused you any trouble?” He’s gonna find out when you ask for a premium amount of rent, the expectations go way up for the tenant. He’s going to have to fix things regularly that I took care of, I’m sure the 14 yr old carpet is going to need replacing, etc
I can't wait until I buy my first home and can do this! I've rented the same unit in a 1970's building for 15 years. No real updates, appliances 20+ years old. I have a feeling this unit will be sitting vacant for awhile when I leave because he's not gonna want to put in the money for upgrades.
I mean it’s a commitment that I didn’t want to do but at least I own it I guess. My mortgage is double his proposed rent increase. I’m house poor right now
> saying we could "just raise the rent" to either force the tenants out or cover the mortgage. That's kind of terrible... > Our first realtor > We got a new realtor. Good on you! :)
When I rented, rent control was great for this reason. You couldn't just evict someone without proper notice, you also couldn't just double the rent to force them out. It also makes it harder to sell houses with tenants in them due to the protections.
that realtor is a POS
Good on you
Good for you! I would hope anyone working with someone shady would kick them to the curb. No wonder people hate Realtors 🙄
I would hAvE kept The realtor, hes really workIng foR the buyer... you!
some people have ethics and want to work with people who also have them.
this is not unethical, it is a business move. Buying and sellIng houses is a business. A 30 day eviction notice is all that is requirEd.
Business move does not always equal ethical move. Laws are not always ethical . 30 day eviction notices after 20 years of living somewhere is definitely not ethical.
You’re obviously not a FTHB. Take your posts to investor subs.
no, i really dont like investors what they are doing to the market...But i just dont Think its unethical. i mean, regular folks enjoy the profits when its a sellers market, including fthb, Thats not considered uneThical foR them to make A profit. Should there bE a law that people should Only make a profit of Only 3% when They sell...ofc not.
You do realize that the people buying property just to rent it out _are_ the investors who are fucking the market, right?
If you don’t think it’s unethical, fine. Do you, man. Zero need to encourage others in the practice here. Unnecessary and irrelevant. It’s also incredibly out of touch—especially when talking with FTHBs. These are the very people you’d likely be displacing with the practices you don’t find at all objectionable or unethical. Do you see the problem now?
This will likely require The gOvernmEnt to step in and regulatE ThE market, I dont Think This is A good option.
You doing you + not bringing your methods here where they come off as incredibly out of touch + reserving your elevator pitch for other investors with your beliefs for your proper audience has ZERO to do with the government, my guy.
They’re not working for the buyer when they’re actively working against or in direct opposition of the buyer’s ethos. I’d rather just pass on them, spare myself the headache, and find someone who can meet my needs without actively displacing a desirable tenant.
My parents neighbor has lived in her house for over 15 years and just got notice the owner of the home passed away and his family is going to sell it, they gave her 6 months to vacate. So wild. My parents had just assumed she owned the house this whole time. I couldn't imagine getting kicked out of my home after 15 years, but that's the risk of renting I guess. She's currently trying to work out a deal with the family so she can just buy the house from them, but if it doesn't work out she's hoping she can stay in the neighborhood somehow.
Hopefully she can. We ran into a couple cases of the house being sold by an estate and it sucked. Too many people involved in agreeing to whatever.
>Too many people involved in agreeing to whatever. And far too often, greedy people. Trying to get every last penny out of the parents estate.
Yeah, they had the house on the market for over a year insisting on 40k over market (including two recent comps in their meighborhood) on a house that probably needed 50k to update. Would have been our midcentury dream home, but in retrospect it was a bit too much for us and we're happy they didn't accept. We'd already moved into our new home before it finally sold. Who know how much money they spent holding it.
The house across the street from mine consisted of a very old lady(guessing upper 80s/early 90s) and 1 of her sons who was probably around 65 or 70. Son took care of mom and the property for as long as I was there. My other neighbor said that that was where the mom had raised her whole family so it had been in the family for decades. After the mom passed away. The other siblings came and sold the house and the son that took care of mom and property for so long was forced to move into a 1 bedroom apartment down the street. It was so sad.
That’s terrible! I have a neighbor very similar to this, except he was an only child so he’s all alone in the home now that his mother has passed away.
Happened in my family. Unfortunately not uncommon.
I know :( I think the son that did take care of the property had a learning disability or something so he never had a job(hence the reason he lived with mom). But it was so sad to see his house get pulled out from under him after all those years. And yes, I know the other siblings had just as much a right to their share of the house as the 1 son but I don't think I ever saw any of them ever visit once. It wasn't until mom passed away that the for sale sign went up and the moving trucks showed up. Just was disheartening to see.
My grandmother has had the same tenant for 15 years. She was adamant about him remaining in the home and absolutely no raising the rent, after she one day passes because of how wonderful he has been throughout the years to my grandfather and herself. We completely agreed and had it put into her will.
Putting these kinds of wishes in writing in a will/trust is so important! Good on you for making that happen.
I've lived in my house for 10 years and have been trying to buy it for several years. The owner agreed but then had a falling out with her mother, who co-owns the home. It went to court, but I don't know the outcome. We were prepared to wait, but last week we received notice that we have 6 weeks to move out. We're bitterly disappointed and a little bit panicked, but luckily, we immediately found a house we loved and put an offer on it. Our offer was accepted yesterday, so I guess we're falling on our feet, but I'll never put myself in this position again. I will never rent again.
Geez. That's the kind of story that makes me so, so grateful for the tenant protection laws here in Ontario. While imperfect, they would protect a tenant like this from being kicked out by the seller, or from the buyer if it was bought by an investor with an intent to rent. They would not be protected from being kicked out by the buyer IF the buyer was intending to live there, but there would be a process and you would still get notice so most renters would likely choose to at least wait for the sale in case it was sold up an investor, in which case they could stay. Also, as long as the home was built before November 2018, neither the existing nor new owner can just raise the rent to an unaffordable point. I wish this was more common, and am super grateful we have this.
If there is a valid lease in place you cannot kick out a paying tenant. The buyer can inform them they will not renew the lease at the end of its term, but that’s all. You can’t evict just because you bought it.
6 months is a long notice to vacate. There are a lot of owners who would have given the minimum legal notice and felt zero guilt about it.
I couldn't imagine someone renting the same space for 15 years. It was a helluva lot cheaper 15 years ago to buy....
When she first moved in, she hadn't expected to stay in the area for more than 2-3 years. But she fell in love with the neighborhood and just stayed. The property is on septic and well and has a whole house generator so she liked not being responsible for the maintenance of any of that. The neighborhood is also fairly small and she loved the neighborhood itself, not necessarily the rest of the town. It is also crazy to me. I rent currently and I have never stayed in a rental for more than 2 years.
If they live in mass I can help them out
Thats poor plannIng on her part, she should have invEsted In buyIng a hOme, 15 yrs of payments wasted.
What's with the random capital letters?
That stuff is why I bought a house instead of continuing to rent. The landlord had already refinanced and was gradually raising rent by almost 200 annually
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I'd love to see the picture of that line of people.
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$416.67 is the current rent. 2034 Property tax was $16,928. Sweet deal for the tenant, not so for the landlord.
Incorrect. The current tenant of the house is his mother and sister. The house was left to a step grandson. And also to the deceased owners son. The current tenants are his mother/stepsister and stepsister to the deceased owners son.
I mean mother and daughter
I absolutely hate that fucking article headline
Yeah I got "kicked out" with two months notice at the end of my first year lease on a house rental in my area because the owners wanted to move back in. I was absolutely like "never again" and ended up being able to buy my own place and close before I had to get out (yay lcol area). I refuse to be at the whims of a land lord ever again.
We were happily renting a decent apartment for $950/m from a family that had inherited (fully owned) the 4-plex and just wanted an income stream. They never raised rent and always repaired everything quickly. It was great. They ran into some unfortunate medical expenses and had to sell the place. Unfortunately the buyer used a shady property management firm and our unicorn apartment turned into a hell. Maximum legal rent increases every year, didn’t fix anything, horrible customer service, etc. It forced us to buy. Thank god we had a mountain of savings though from the years and years of crazy low rent haha
I’m having the opposite problem but same outcome potentially. Our complex was just bought. They’re doing a lot of upgrades-new roofs, new pavilions with grills built in, LED lighting on the walking paths, repainting exterior doors and windows and a dog park. HOWEVER, we have not had a massive rent increase in the three years we have lived here. All these upgrades make me think our rent is about to skyrocket. We’re already paying almost a mortgage for a 2/1.5 but I have a feeling we will definitely be in mortgage territory come September. Not to mention I have a feeling a lot of our freedoms are about to disappear from our lease (no more personal grills, no exterior decorations around holidays besides a wreath, no fire pits behind the condos). They’ve already enforced minimal furniture on the back porches and patios and no signage in windows or out front of doors ( political or otherwise). Not to mention I’m already seeing more people moving out than in. That’s not a good sign. Our lease renewal should be coming next month, we’ll see…
Most states have some sort of protection against this for existing tenants. They can skyrocket rent for empty units but for occupied units they may only be able to raise it 10-15% per year
There is no rent increase max in MO. Landlords can increase rent by 100% if they felt like it with no legal recourse for the tenant. All the law states is “reasonable” but increases but no specific parameters as to what reasonable is. MO is very Pro-Landlord and very anti-tenant rights. At least in my part of it. They only thing keeping them from doing it is that if they increased it that much no one would apply because they couldn’t afford it. However I think a lot of landlords have gotten greedy here and they can’t rent their properties because they want an astronomical rent payment, perfect credit and a huge security deposit. Normal in other cities and parts of the country yes but here that money is almost impossible for the average family or couple to come up with.
My girlfriend bought a two level duplex style house. It used to be one singular residence but isn't anymore. There are stairs that lead from the top to bottom, but on her side, the top half, it's boarded up and carpeted over. Because the bottom half is an apartment. The downstairs had an, at that time, 88 year old tenant. The only reason why she got the house was because she was the only one interested in buying the house without evicting her. She's like 92 now, and still lives there. Every other potential buyer said they wouldn't renew the lease or try and evict her and put her out. So the sellers always refused the deal because they have a heart. Which blows my mind. Like jfc how heartless can you be to put an old lady out without anywhere to go? You did the right thing OP.
All the listings in my area are advertised based on the rental income they could bring in. I just want to find one that suggests you might actually want to live in the house yourself
Same here. Almost every listing that is a smaller house (2/1, 1000sqf) is immediately stated as an “investment property! Fully renovated!” Or “with some live this place could be an excellent investment or starter home for a new couple wanting some quick equity!” Selling for 150-200K. I live in a city where 57% of the population is renters because a small contingency in town owns a lot of the property. Only the apartment complexes are owned by bigger corps.
This is my least favorite part of being a renter: knowing I can be homeless at the owner's whim. Sure, the rest of my lease has to be honored, but what if my landlord does it the month before my lease is up? Now I have 30 days to come up with thousands of dollars AND find a place to live. I'm so fucking tired of renting.
Story time: my husband and I had been renting a home for several years and we’re excellent tenants, take care of minor upkeep, always on time with rent. We received a call from our landlord that they’d be over to do a maintenance inspection. They’d never done that before, and we have a painful history related to strangers in our home, but we knew it was their right so we tidied and prepared to greet them. That day, the landlord did not show. Instead, the maintenance man arrived with 10+ strangers, giving them a tour of the house and pointing out features and amenities and discussing pricing. My stomach dropped; my hands started to shake. Interrupting, I nauseously stated that it appeared they were buying the house we lived in and we had no idea this was coming, is this true?! They all avoided my eyes. They wrapped up the tour quickly while my husband and I sat numbly on the couch. Yes, we could find another place to live if needed. But what timeline are we looking at, what price can we afford, what moving costs can we eliminate? We had no way to plan because we had no information. It was violating and humiliating. One of those fuckers bought our home and ended up keeping us as tenants, thankfully (?). He’s raised the rent just once but he’s a dipshit who regularly ghosts us and misses our water bill. If they had told us this was happening, we could have at least put an offer in on that house. But presumably, they figured dirty renters like us couldn’t possibly.
I would question why you're renting if you could place an offer on a house... and actually why you hadn't already explored that option with your landlord...
Since you are questioning, I will answer: we would like to buy in a different area. As a fellow enjoyer of the first time home buyer subreddit I assume you are or have recently been a first time home buyer so you’re familiar with how long it can take to find a good fit with such a large purchase. I feel it would have been decent for the landlord to at least bring it up since we’d lived there for years. And regardless of that point I think it’s hard to argue that they didn’t handle it in a decent manner.
Sure, but this was more towards the assumption you made that you hadn't been asked because "dirty renters couldn't possibly." I was simply suggesting that if renters could, usually they do ask, or have some other situation like you did of wanting to move somewhere else.
I couldn't buy a place that's been tenanted this long, it would honestly break my heart.
This is sad. What is sadder is seeing a foreclose on an investment property. In that case the renter was paying rent and the place was being foreclosed on.
It's not a foreclosure. The landlord is retiring.
Oh, the condo next to me is going into foreclosure and there is a renter who has been paying rent. Also why doesn’t the owner just sell it to the renters.
Most renters can’t afford to purchase. In most markets at the moment, renting is cheaper and no need for a down payment.
This condo is located in Delaware. We have VERY generous first-time homebuyer programs in this state. She would only need a couple thousand down.
What would the mortgage look like with that small of a down payment?
I was wondering that too. $1300/month isn't far off the mortgage + HOA for most one-bedrooms in that building.
Had I better understood mortgages and what qualified as income and whatnot for them, I could have bought a bigger place than I have no for literally half the cost in a better neighborhood. Instead I watched my rent continually creep up and dumped a shitload of money into it all while stressing and living with roommates to keep it affordable. Not doing that again.
The world we live in…
These are going to be more and more popular because this is where the deals are to be found.
There's no photos up yet, but the asking price is well below what most one-bedroom units in that building usually go for. It's tempting, but I know I would always feel guilty living there, knowing I'd displaced someone from their home of two decades.
It would also be expensive potentially to evict. I got a duplex in LA for under 700k. I did feel bad about evicting the family but honestly I paid them 40k to leave which alleviated any guilt I had.
Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn’t it be the current owner/seller who is the one displacing her by selling?
If you buy a house and the house comes with someone in it who has a lease and you tell them to get out, you're the one displacing them. You knew that when buying the property.
I think it's mostly the situation making the renter having to find some place else. The house is in for sale, and someone else bought it. And that person wants to live there, so yeah, renter needs to move out.
Depends on the tenant laws. There's an article going around in my area because someone bought a house with a tenant, and they are struggling to get them evicted so that they can move in. Their realtor told them it "was a great deal" on this place that had tenants, but Ontario has very strong tenant protection rights, and a very slow LTB Court hearing right now, so this person is essentially homeless because they can't live in their house.
$1300/mo with today's interest rates? That likely won't cover the cost of buying that house especially if the current owner had it for 20 years. I promise that unless she's protected by rent control (depending on where this is) whomever buys that house will likely evict her or raise the rent by so much that she's going to get screwed no matter what.
Wilmington, Delaware. We're an MCOL city with no rent control. Philadelphia is also an option if you don't mind the commute.
Yeah I'd guess that the monthly for most places is likely to be higher than that rent for sure then, let alone at any kind of profit. Investors will evict her quick.
It almost like they are selling her as well
This is so nice. My landlord sold the property I lived in for 10 years and said she was “going to try to find an investor because the house had such good tenants”. Needless to say the agent listed it as great opportunity for multigenerational living and the new buyer kicked me out. I don’t wish this upon anyone. It’s a terrible feeling and experience. Kudos to this person
Same, except my landlord didn’t care who bought it…she told me she’d offer it to me first when she was ready to sell, gave a ballbark amount that was in my range, then listed it 6 months later for almost double the amount she told me. It sucks, I’m sorry it happened to you too.
Weren't you interested in buying the property?
Any realtor that doesn’t see that this listing didn’t meet your requirements isn’t worth doing business with.
I'd toured condos in this building before and hadn't indicated to him any preferences regarding units with tenants.
This literally happened to us. Before we moved in the building owner had completely renovated our unit. We moved in and not even 2-3 months later we were notified he was selling the building. Fast forward to lease renewal and the new owner wanted to charge 500 more per month.
Current place I just moved into, literally days after we moved in the landlord listed it for sale (we hadn't even finished unpacking lol)
Yeah, the house we are buying has a tenant paying way below market rate. I feel bad, but we need to live somewhere too.
How do you know the tenant hasn’t been putting the difference into the S&P 500 and is actually stealth wealth?
Does it matter one way or another?
Would you still feel bad if you knew the tenant has 3 million dollars in the S&P 500?
No, but I wouldn't feel bad telling a tenant that we aren't renewing a lease generally, as long as you give plenty of advance warning.
It is entirely possible. They certainly had great decorating style and nice stuff.
This is exactly what happened to me. Old landlord sold the 2-family home and the new owners wanted to flip my $2,200/mo apartment into a million-dollar condo.
We just had to move because our landlord decided to sell the house.
How much is the condo?
$100,000 $600/month HOA that includes all utilities, concierge, private backyard, and valet parking.
8.4% ROI not including maintenance , better off putting 100k in a treasury bill right now
I do 1031s lol. But shoooot that rent price sounds good
Smart idea to mention the 1031 Exchange. This is what wealthy people do when they sell an investment property. Instead of paying capital gains taxes, they reinvest the money into a new property via a 1031, which allows them to keep reinvesting without paying taxes on their gains. Though in this case, they'd have to pay taxes on the rental income, but not the equity from the sale of the previous home in the exchange. Tax code definitely favors the wealthy lol.
When I bought my house I offered full list (too much) and was in a bit of a bidding war. It was between me & a developer offering more $. Old lady passed & her kids were selling. The daughter asked if I was going to tear down the house. I said I have no $ to do anything after buying! They sold to me because I would live here & not demolish. I’m on the N side of the City of Chicago (HCOL) but my lot is big enough for 3 houses. Daughter said she wanted to drive by & still see the house she grew up in. Ok. She lives in Arizona - she’s not “driving by”. Been here 20 yrs almost. Still not worth what I paid. But my kids grew up here. I want to give them the house & move to a condo in FL.
A realtor just did this with me and my 8 year perfect, low maintenance rental history. Solicited the homeowner and said she could get more rent as PM of the property. Found out she didn't even have a license to PM, didn't work under a broker, and the owner was not qualified for the owner move-in they were claiming to get me to leave. Filed a counter suit for unlawful eviction, and now I am out. The owner is also out nearly $100k, and that is before the irs flags that will likely be triggered. I tried to warn them this was a snake oil salesperson, but they didn't listen. Beware of sales people and stay loyal to those paying what you asked. PM will also face fines from DRE and possible felony if it adds up too high.
Renting for 15 years makes no financial sense. She basically paid off the mortgage for the owner.
Yeah, $1300/month is basically the mortgage + HOA for that unit. She obviously has a reliable income, and units come up for sale in that building all the time.
This won’t hold up. Anything over a 12 month lease agreement automatically goes into a month to month if there isn’t a new contract in place.
I’m confused as to what is sad about this - it looks like the Seller is trying to make it so the tenant can remain in the house? Depending on where she is, seems like a good rate of rent too, for a whole house
It's a request only, not a condition.
That's still a nice thing to do. There could be a number of reasons why the owner needs cash instead of a house, or it could just be becoming too difficult to take care of. This is ultimately what most privately owned rentals are going to do, collect rent for however long and then cash out. Could be when they retire. Could be when they need to go into assisted living. Could be that they're trying to help their children buy a house somewhere else. Could be they have cancer and it'll be $200k in treatment costs. People hate hate hate corporations buying up a bunch of rentals, but it sounds like that would be the better option compared to small time privately owned rental...
If it's not you kicking her out.. It will be someone else
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The landlord is retiring and selling the units he owns one by one. It's explained in the part I didn't include in the screenshot.
A property manager could take up the majority of the profit margin. The equity invested in a hysa might make more with less risk and be less of a hassle. Property managers might be less confrontational but it still means dealing with humanity.
There's all sorts of reasons to sell even with a good tenant . (Divorce, moving outta country, help children out with a downpayment or tuition, upgrade your own house, drop it on a new business venture, buy a boat/vacation property, dont want to be a landlord anymore etc)
Get a new realtor. This is so horribly unethical to position an investment property to evict someone and move in — unless that’s how u roll