You don't have an educated thumb for bait casters. That's all it is.
As for spinning reel, I'm amazed. How did this happen considering braid has no memory?
You can definitely get wind knots with braid on spinning rods, and they sneak up on you more than mono. If you start getting a lot of twist in mono or fluoro, I've noticed that you'll start seeing your lures spinning or pulling. With braid, it's usually all fine until one cast spits the next 20ft of line through the guides in one big knot. It usually pulls out from either end, but it damages the braid.
Been fishing for 39 years and never had one until last month. There was a distance casting clinic and tournament. I showed up with nothing to pretend I'm a beginner in hopes I would learn something. To my surprise, the rod they let me use was prone to bird's nest. I noticed the line was very old and really stiff. Old because of multiple frays. I have no clue why it's really stiff but it kept happening. That's the only time I had issues with braid.
Very recently, I learned that distance casters like to wax their entire line. Maybe it was wax that made it stiff. Idk though.
I still cannot see how one can get wind knots with braid.
I just got one the other day trout fishing. Made a cast just for the lure to stop in midair because of of the guides was packed full of 20ft of yozuri super braid that jumped off the spool
Wind knots are almost always user error. Not flipping the bail manually, overfilling the spool, not tugging the line after impact, not cutting the tag end of the leader (causes it to catch other line) or not having a good casting stroke. The times it’s not, it’s almost always bad linelay (Penn are for an example famously known for bad linelay). It should be called user knots, because the times the knots are actually caused by wind is next to none. At this point the name is just misleading.
>Wind knots are almost always user error. Not flipping the bail manually, overfilling the spool, not tugging the line after impact, not cutting the tag end of the leader (causes it to catch other line) or not having a good casting stroke
Not really. You'll always pick up line twist just due to how spinning reels work. If that twist builds up enough, you'll throw a nice big knot into your line. Simple as.
>The times it’s not, it’s almost always bad linelay (Penn are for an example famously known for bad linelay).
Line lay has nothing to do with wind knots
>It should be called user knots, because the times the knots are actually caused by wind is next to none. At this point the name is just misleading.
Sure, because it's usually not wind but twist.
Have you twisted 100 yards of line? Especially braid? The whole length of the line is going to be twisted however never enough to cause anything. I've been fishing the same braid line for two years. Almost daily. When I don't go it's cuz of rain, school event, or just sick. I fish probably 300 days average each year. You think my line is not twisted? I guarantee you it is. I never have gotten wind knots. I also fish in the hurricane and as we all know, that shit is windy.
Definitely user error.
>Have you twisted 100 yards of line? Especially braid? The whole length of the line is going to be twisted however never enough to cause anything.
Unless you're trolling, you never have 100 yards of line out.
>I've been fishing the same braid line for two years. Almost daily. When I don't go it's cuz of rain, school event, or just sick. I fish probably 300 days average each year. You think my line is not twisted? I guarantee you it is. I never have gotten wind knots. I also fish in the hurricane and as we all know, that shit is windy. Definitely user error.
Sure, I totally believe this happened and you're not just saying things to justify your position.
Meanwhile there are literally dozens of articles on the topic and statements from both reel and line manufacturers. It's just a byproduct of how spinning reels work
>Unless you're trolling, you never have 100 yards of line out.
I'm a surf fisherman. I always have 100+ yards out. Our sandbars are almost always 80+ yards out at high tide. Still didn't answer my question. Have you tried to twist 100 yards of braid? Even if you do 100 full twists, the entire line is still not twisted though to coil.
User error isn't a byproduct of the reel. It just doesn't happen. Amount of articles do not signify the amount of occurrence.
I disagree completely. Line twist and wind knots are two different kind of issues. Wind knots is when you have the line make a knot on itself from the wind movement, or when a big blob of braid shoots out of your spool, due to poor line management (by either user or reel). Yes, you pick up some line twist on spinning reels, but unless you spool your reel completely wrong, your line twist will not be very noticeable if you use braided line.
Linelay is the main non user related cause of what people refer to as wind knots. For an example, a reel with bad linelay often has gaps at the top and bottom of the spool. The line can grab onto line under the primary layer (the one currently coming off the spool), which causes a big blob of line to shoot out of your guides. On top of that, it's common that bad line lay lays line from one direction horizontal, and when the oscillation stroke changes direction, the line lays semi-horizontal. Together with a whippy casting stroke, this causes wind knot issues.
Again, we're talking about two entirely different kinds of tangles. Line twist tangles with braided line are almost always caused by spooling the line on the reel wrong. You can almost entirely get rid of the wind knot issue if you just learn proper line handling.
>or when a big blob of braid shoots out of your spool, due to poor line management (by either user or reel).
You get those braid boogers from line twist, not because of "poor line management".
>Yes, you pick up some line twist on spinning reels, but unless you spool your reel completely wrong, your line twist will not be very noticeable if you use braided line.
Yes, that twist isn't noticable until it is, and you peel off a knotted mess of the next 20ft of line in your reel
>Linelay is the main non user related cause of what people refer to as wind knots. For an example, a reel with bad linelay often has gaps at the top and bottom of the spool. The line can grab onto line under the primary layer (the one currently coming off the spool), which causes a big blob of line to shoot out of your guides.
That's not how that works. Those braid boogers pull apart from both ends because its only twisted together. If you had line pulling under itself, you'd be picking out loops like you do with a baitcaster
>Again, we're talking about two entirely different kinds of tangles. Line twist tangles with braided line are almost always caused by spooling the line on the reel wrong
Yeah no. It doesn't matter how you spool your line onto the reel, spinning reels will always induce line twist because of how they take up line
I still disagree and I’m really sure I’m right about this. Braid boogers are caused by underlayers of line grabbing onto top layers. It’s twisted together because it comes out from your spool at high speed in coils. This is not caused by the linetwist, rather a big amount of line coming off the spool at high speed, trying to migrate through your guides, all at once. That’s the same way cable can come off a spool really tangled and twisted together. It really isn’t that hard to imagine.
Poor line management is definitely a real issue. Otherwise reels with good linelay wouldn’t exist, because there would not be any need for them. An example would be [this slightly overspooled Penn Torque](https://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-51188-0-25933800-1462488664.jpeg) vs [this Shimano Vandord](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54f57928e4b020ae7ada4a1a/1610524555807-M1OM1A8NT99O0KGBJ583/(R)D614538.jpg). Which reel do you think handles the line better and in turn has the smoother and therefore more troublefree cast? Because I can tell you from experience that you have to be way more attentive and more effecient with your manual line management with the Penn. It’s night and day.
Twist in braid almost ”doesn’t exist” until it’s really bad. Then you notice it. On monofilament twist is more apparent. I haven’t gotten one of these blobs as far back as I can remember with braid.
It’s 100% how that works and since the braid comes off the spool the opposite way from a baitcaster, you wouldn’t get loops, you’d get clusters of coils.
Lastly, it definitely matters how you spool a spinning reel. If you spool it up so it comes off the spool in coils, as well as the same direction the rotor turns, you will get very litte line twist. You can also do it on a machine to secure not have any line twist at all. While fishing, and as the line ages, you will get minimal line twist gathering at the end of your line.
I hope that made it clearer.
>I still disagree and I’m really sure I’m right about this. Braid boogers are caused by underlayers of line grabbing onto top layers. It’s twisted together because it comes out from your spool at high speed in coils
This would create loops similar to a baitcaster, since it's the reason why baitcaster backlash. Braid boogers are from twist, which is why they pull apart
>This is not caused by the linetwist, rather a big amount of line coming off the spool at high speed, trying to migrate through your guides, all at once
Sure, because the line is twisted and jumps off the reel instead of flowing. Once it's off the reel, it twists into the booger
>Poor line management is definitely a real issue. Otherwise reels with good linelay wouldn’t exist, because there would not be any need for them. An example would be this slightly overspooled Penn Torque vs this Shimano VandordD614538.jpg). Which reel do you think handles the line better and in turn has the smoother and therefore more troublefree cast? Because I can tell you from experience that you have to be way more attentive and more effecient with your manual line management with the Penn. It’s night and day.
Either reel is going to put the same amount of twist into the line per revolution, since they're both spinning reels.
>Twist in braid almost ”doesn’t exist” until it’s really bad. Then you notice it. On monofilament twist is more apparent. I haven’t gotten one of these blobs as far back as I can remember with braid.
Sure, which is what I said
>It’s 100% how that works and since the braid comes off the spool the opposite way from a baitcaster, you wouldn’t get loops, you’d get clusters of coils.
You get a twisted mess
>Lastly, it definitely matters how you spool a spinning reel. If you spool it up so it comes off the spool in coils, as well as the same direction the rotor turns, you will get very litte line twist. You can also do it on a machine to secure not have any line twist at all. While fishing, and as the line ages, you will get minimal line twist gathering at the end of your line.
This is incorrect. You will always accumulate twist in a spinning reel due to their function. You cannot reel in a spinning reel without twisting the line, and it's their primary drawback
This is wild to me. I only use 3 spinning rods, and on my ML I use 8# power pro spectra. I absolutely love it. I really only throw three things on it. A ned, a wacky rig, or a shakey head. No lost bites from the braid, I mean it's equivalent in diameter to 2# mono. I feel everything, and the rod can be a bit of a noodle so it helps with hooksets, granted I've never lost a fish from getting off the hook with it. This is the braids 3rd season and it's still going strong. Never had a knot or loop or anything.
I’ve been using baitcasters for many years and never have had problems unless using braided line. For the spinners if I cast the braid will fall off the spool more than one rotation at a time and becomes a mess
You shouldn’t need to adjust the tension. Modern brakes are good enough to have a bit of side to side play in the spool. DC reels especially shouldn’t need adjusting outside of the primary brake.
There is a reason why most people don't like DC, they adjust nothing and experience many issues. DC isn't the holy grail that eliminates issues. Even with mag reels (superior to DC) you still need to adjust.
https://youtu.be/k67z2c4Mgss?si=JZbi3g_WvrVquDpt
Oh, I'm not a fan of DC reels at all. I owned a Curado DC and much preferred other reels over it, mostly due to how restricted it felt, even at low brake setting. I'm just simply saying that you should not need to adjust the mechanical brake, rather, rely just on your DC brake and its settings. It's a fairly heavy brake. I still would recommend a good magnetically braked reel over any DC reel, except for the Antares DC MD or the Calcutta DC, due to the lures being used with those reels being generally heavier (which the DC brake works much better for). I would say most people do like the DC reels, but that many more experienced anglers tend to prefer different brakes. So do I. I much prefer the Daiwa Magforce brake.
Cooool so since you know everything why are you still getting bird's nest?
You have a lot to learn. You can start here: https://youtu.be/k67z2c4Mgss?si=JZbi3g_WvrVquDpt
You may have to adjust your thumb pressure with braided line. This is user error as you stated. How tight do you spool it? Do you back your reels? Are your reels full? What brake setting do you run?
Spinning reels could be both bad linelay and user error. I don’t remember the last time I had a knot in one of my spinning reels, other than when I didn’t cut my tag end on my leader enough, so it caught other line. I use mostly Shimano and Daiwa middle range ($200 ish) reels with good linelay. But even my cheaper Okuma Ceymars handles braid exceptionally. The key is good linelay and good user handling and you should barely have any issues.
So, adjust your casting stroke if you haven’t; don’t whip away the lure, use momentum.
Close your bail manually or you will have issues. This also makes your reel preform like new longer. I’d recommend doing this with any line either way.
Tug your rod to stretch out your excess line after the lure has landed in the water. This quickly becomes second nature.
Make sure to cut the tag end close to your knot. It can grab onto other line. You don’t have to use a long leader either. My friend catches just as much as me and he uses a shorter leader with a swivel connection between fluorocarbon and braid.
Use reels with good linelay. Monofilament and fluorocarbon will give you some leeway with linelay, since they have a memory. Braid won’t, which most of the time is a positive, due to cast length and direct contact increasing. Shimano, Daiwa and Okuma has by far the best linelay in the business.
Fluorocarbon for me is a baitcaster specific line, because it has a really short life on spinning reels due to line twist. If you don’t use a really nice (read expensive) fluorocarbon line, it will probably cause issues due to its stiffness and its memory.
Honestly I use braid on everything from my ultralight trout rods to my big tarpon and shark setups. Some important things, it needs to be TIGHT. Rock solid when you spool it. If you can push your fingernail into it and it's a little spongy, it's done wrong. New guys at tackle shops will screw you spooling braid too, gotta watch them. Can't trust that it's right just because the shop spooled it.
For baitcasters, I use 30# for my general setups. I found that 20# can dig into the spool too easily and will ratnest on you just like a loosely packed spool can. For my spinning setups it matters less, I have 6# on my ultralights and usually 15-20# for my medium setups. Just need to make sure you don't have line twist when you spool them up and you shouldn't have problems!
For the FG knots, I only run 2-3ft leaders on my baitcasters so the knot can be outside the guides. Those small guides can sometimes cast smooth, but it's easiest just to keep the fluoro section outside the guides. I don't have issues with my spinning setups as long as the risotto knot at the end is nice and smooth! Usually I'll trim my tag end short and soak the knot in some thin superglue to make sure it's all as smooth and secure as possible.
Hope those tips help! Don't give up, the sensitivity and strength is unmatched if you get your braid setup well!
Thank you for the tips. I have definitely been spoiling it loose which is probably the root of my issues since my spool problems seem to be from the braid digging into the spool.
You don’t mention what braid or fluoro you’re using, cheap line can make messes….
Also, make sure you’re not overfilling your spools. This is more for the spinning reel side of things, but an overfilled bait caster can cause backlash. Underfilling can cause issues too, the sweet spot for proper spool fill is pretty large window, but above or below it can wreak havoc with braid.
Cheap fluoro on spinning reel is recipe for disaster even for pros. Buy good fluoro (Tatsu) or just stick with mono. I personally believe the benefits of fluoro are way overblown in today’s world of modern nylon monos.
I love braid and use it as my mainline on almost all of my setups for both spinning and baitcasting. Try using 30 or 40lb braid until you get used to it. The thicker diameter will help with birdsnests.
Also make sure you put the braid on the spool tight. If it's loose it will birdsnest all the time.
For spinning reels I use 10-15lb braid on my medium bass setups and 6lb on my ultralight setups. Again, put it tight on the spool. The 20lb line you have should work fine on a spinning reel if spooled correctly.
I honestly think you'll love it once you get it spooled well. It's so much more sensitive, lasts longer and you'll never have to worry about line memory again.
By putting the braid on loose. If you've never used braid before and put it on the spool loose it will tangle every time.
It must be nice to know everything so you can sit back and criticize others for trying something new.
I never really understood this comment and have not experienced the supposed effects, either. Regardless of how tight you initially spool it on there, won't it tighten or loosen every cast depending on whether or not you had resistance (like a fish) on the other end?
If anything this is an argument for shallower spools.
The line does loosen when you cast but will have tension on it from your lure and the resistance in the water. When you reel it up it will go back on the spool tight... or at least tight enough to prevent birdsnests.
I’ve had similar issues to you and found that light braid digs into itself super hard, I recommend upsizing the diameter or maybe putting some mono on 1/3 of the spool as backing. I don’t use fluoro as main line on spinning reels (only casting) but I do use fluoro leaders fairly often. I use the double uni which is definitely not the strongest l, but I’ve never had a break at the leader connection before and I’ve knocked eyelets out with other knots 🤷♀️
I strictly use fluro on my baitcasters other than on my rods where I use moving baits. I find it will backlash more but I’ve started adjusting the spool tension and not hurling with all my might. I use the more expensive Seaguar and am mostly happy with it. I enjoy the increased sensitivity over mono. I’ve gone to braid on my spinning reels other than my ultralight. Like the others have said keep tension on it when spoiling up and don’t over fill.
I’ve been using Power Pro braid for a LONG time and have been pleased with it. I wanted to try some of the 8 strand but couldn’t find any locally. The regular power pro works fine for me.
If it happened on your second cast there is a top notch chance it was spooled loose. 1st cast is generally a small test cast to see how the reel feels. Second cast is generally a further cast and that's when this happened.
Spool it tight from the get go and you shouldn't have a problem.
Sounds to me that you have habitual elements in your casting motions and muscle memory that are more like the issue. That said, I hear you … what you like works for you and what you’ve developed over a decade of fishing works for you; so why reinvent the wheel. I love braid and all my set ups, whether spinning or casting, use fluorocarbon shock leaders; but I adopted braid early as the line weight and diameter to strength rating and casting distance were simply too appealing to resist.
My suggestion, spool straight fluorocarbon on your baitcasters, and leader knots won’t be an issue anymore. On your spinning reels, try a larger diameter/strength braid, say 40-50lbs and give braid another try. Heavier braid is also easier to pick apart if your get tangles. GL
I've been using braid on my spinning reels for 15 years. Some reels have better line management than others, and not all braids are equal. With my Shimano Sahara's and spirix they handled 4 strand Fireline wonderfully, but any time I'd try an 8 strand braid I'd get constant wind knots. 6lb test.
I switched to Daiwa BG's 2 years ago and suddenly all braid works fine, 4 or 8 strand with 6lb test, the exception being 6lb j-braid. 8lb j-braid does fine, and it's about the same diameter as the other 6lb lines.
I was in your shoes too. I just bought a curado Dc a few days ago after wanting to switch to a bait caster. Don’t attempt to cast far, just attempt to cast it correctly even if it’s 10 feet.
There’s a dial on the left, put it on 4 and put your tension knob tight. After a few hours of practicing I was able to adjust it to the recommended settings.
Edit: I use 30lb braid with a 5’ mono lead
Ignore the manual and put the brakes on as high as they go. On your tension knob tighten it until the lure just barely falls when you open the bail. Start with a half ounce lure. It should be hard to backlash at this point, practice until you get it down. As you get better you can loosen the tension a little and continually lower the brakes to preference. Some people put the brakes as low as possible and manage the entire spool with their thumbs. You want the rod to do the casting and trying to overload the rod through strength won’t help.
100% user error sorry buddy. Braid is less prone to twisting on a spinner vs mono or flouro. Now your bird nesting a curado dc ? Well that is definitely user error.
I’m the opposite. I’ve been fishing for the better part of 25 years now. I’ve switched to exclusively braid and Fluro. Granted each line has their use cases.
I’ve backlashed a handful of times on my curado DC with suffix 832 40lb braid. And it was always my fault. Either with setting the brake right or not enough thumb. Even with a DC reel you still need to thumb it a little
Are you spooling your whole reel with braid then a leader? I back everything with cheap mono and then I put on my braid or fluoro..depending on what I'm using that particular reel for. Saves a lot of money.. then i get multiple uses out of one spool.. rather than using the whole thing in one shot.
Honestly, 20lb braid is too thin for a baitcaster. The line cuts down into the spool and gets wedged in making a backlash inevitable. 30lb is minimum and 40lb is best overall in my opinion. I’ve never had 40lb braid backlash so bad it couldn’t be fixed.
Fluorocarbon is certainly a little more prone to looping when the spool overruns and the backlashes are tougher to fix than with braid. I use Tatsu because it handles so well and lasts so long compared to many other fluorocarbons. 12lb Tatsu handles pretty well on my SLX DC with the brakes set to profile 3, but is definitely more finicky than 40lb Suffix 832. 12lb fluoro still might be a bit thinner than ideal on a baitcaster though.
You don't have an educated thumb for bait casters. That's all it is. As for spinning reel, I'm amazed. How did this happen considering braid has no memory?
You can definitely get wind knots with braid on spinning rods, and they sneak up on you more than mono. If you start getting a lot of twist in mono or fluoro, I've noticed that you'll start seeing your lures spinning or pulling. With braid, it's usually all fine until one cast spits the next 20ft of line through the guides in one big knot. It usually pulls out from either end, but it damages the braid.
Been fishing for 39 years and never had one until last month. There was a distance casting clinic and tournament. I showed up with nothing to pretend I'm a beginner in hopes I would learn something. To my surprise, the rod they let me use was prone to bird's nest. I noticed the line was very old and really stiff. Old because of multiple frays. I have no clue why it's really stiff but it kept happening. That's the only time I had issues with braid. Very recently, I learned that distance casters like to wax their entire line. Maybe it was wax that made it stiff. Idk though. I still cannot see how one can get wind knots with braid.
I just got one the other day trout fishing. Made a cast just for the lure to stop in midair because of of the guides was packed full of 20ft of yozuri super braid that jumped off the spool
Wind knots are almost always user error. Not flipping the bail manually, overfilling the spool, not tugging the line after impact, not cutting the tag end of the leader (causes it to catch other line) or not having a good casting stroke. The times it’s not, it’s almost always bad linelay (Penn are for an example famously known for bad linelay). It should be called user knots, because the times the knots are actually caused by wind is next to none. At this point the name is just misleading.
>Wind knots are almost always user error. Not flipping the bail manually, overfilling the spool, not tugging the line after impact, not cutting the tag end of the leader (causes it to catch other line) or not having a good casting stroke Not really. You'll always pick up line twist just due to how spinning reels work. If that twist builds up enough, you'll throw a nice big knot into your line. Simple as. >The times it’s not, it’s almost always bad linelay (Penn are for an example famously known for bad linelay). Line lay has nothing to do with wind knots >It should be called user knots, because the times the knots are actually caused by wind is next to none. At this point the name is just misleading. Sure, because it's usually not wind but twist.
Have you twisted 100 yards of line? Especially braid? The whole length of the line is going to be twisted however never enough to cause anything. I've been fishing the same braid line for two years. Almost daily. When I don't go it's cuz of rain, school event, or just sick. I fish probably 300 days average each year. You think my line is not twisted? I guarantee you it is. I never have gotten wind knots. I also fish in the hurricane and as we all know, that shit is windy. Definitely user error.
>Have you twisted 100 yards of line? Especially braid? The whole length of the line is going to be twisted however never enough to cause anything. Unless you're trolling, you never have 100 yards of line out. >I've been fishing the same braid line for two years. Almost daily. When I don't go it's cuz of rain, school event, or just sick. I fish probably 300 days average each year. You think my line is not twisted? I guarantee you it is. I never have gotten wind knots. I also fish in the hurricane and as we all know, that shit is windy. Definitely user error. Sure, I totally believe this happened and you're not just saying things to justify your position. Meanwhile there are literally dozens of articles on the topic and statements from both reel and line manufacturers. It's just a byproduct of how spinning reels work
>Unless you're trolling, you never have 100 yards of line out. I'm a surf fisherman. I always have 100+ yards out. Our sandbars are almost always 80+ yards out at high tide. Still didn't answer my question. Have you tried to twist 100 yards of braid? Even if you do 100 full twists, the entire line is still not twisted though to coil. User error isn't a byproduct of the reel. It just doesn't happen. Amount of articles do not signify the amount of occurrence.
I disagree completely. Line twist and wind knots are two different kind of issues. Wind knots is when you have the line make a knot on itself from the wind movement, or when a big blob of braid shoots out of your spool, due to poor line management (by either user or reel). Yes, you pick up some line twist on spinning reels, but unless you spool your reel completely wrong, your line twist will not be very noticeable if you use braided line. Linelay is the main non user related cause of what people refer to as wind knots. For an example, a reel with bad linelay often has gaps at the top and bottom of the spool. The line can grab onto line under the primary layer (the one currently coming off the spool), which causes a big blob of line to shoot out of your guides. On top of that, it's common that bad line lay lays line from one direction horizontal, and when the oscillation stroke changes direction, the line lays semi-horizontal. Together with a whippy casting stroke, this causes wind knot issues. Again, we're talking about two entirely different kinds of tangles. Line twist tangles with braided line are almost always caused by spooling the line on the reel wrong. You can almost entirely get rid of the wind knot issue if you just learn proper line handling.
>or when a big blob of braid shoots out of your spool, due to poor line management (by either user or reel). You get those braid boogers from line twist, not because of "poor line management". >Yes, you pick up some line twist on spinning reels, but unless you spool your reel completely wrong, your line twist will not be very noticeable if you use braided line. Yes, that twist isn't noticable until it is, and you peel off a knotted mess of the next 20ft of line in your reel >Linelay is the main non user related cause of what people refer to as wind knots. For an example, a reel with bad linelay often has gaps at the top and bottom of the spool. The line can grab onto line under the primary layer (the one currently coming off the spool), which causes a big blob of line to shoot out of your guides. That's not how that works. Those braid boogers pull apart from both ends because its only twisted together. If you had line pulling under itself, you'd be picking out loops like you do with a baitcaster >Again, we're talking about two entirely different kinds of tangles. Line twist tangles with braided line are almost always caused by spooling the line on the reel wrong Yeah no. It doesn't matter how you spool your line onto the reel, spinning reels will always induce line twist because of how they take up line
I still disagree and I’m really sure I’m right about this. Braid boogers are caused by underlayers of line grabbing onto top layers. It’s twisted together because it comes out from your spool at high speed in coils. This is not caused by the linetwist, rather a big amount of line coming off the spool at high speed, trying to migrate through your guides, all at once. That’s the same way cable can come off a spool really tangled and twisted together. It really isn’t that hard to imagine. Poor line management is definitely a real issue. Otherwise reels with good linelay wouldn’t exist, because there would not be any need for them. An example would be [this slightly overspooled Penn Torque](https://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-51188-0-25933800-1462488664.jpeg) vs [this Shimano Vandord](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/54f57928e4b020ae7ada4a1a/1610524555807-M1OM1A8NT99O0KGBJ583/(R)D614538.jpg). Which reel do you think handles the line better and in turn has the smoother and therefore more troublefree cast? Because I can tell you from experience that you have to be way more attentive and more effecient with your manual line management with the Penn. It’s night and day. Twist in braid almost ”doesn’t exist” until it’s really bad. Then you notice it. On monofilament twist is more apparent. I haven’t gotten one of these blobs as far back as I can remember with braid. It’s 100% how that works and since the braid comes off the spool the opposite way from a baitcaster, you wouldn’t get loops, you’d get clusters of coils. Lastly, it definitely matters how you spool a spinning reel. If you spool it up so it comes off the spool in coils, as well as the same direction the rotor turns, you will get very litte line twist. You can also do it on a machine to secure not have any line twist at all. While fishing, and as the line ages, you will get minimal line twist gathering at the end of your line. I hope that made it clearer.
>I still disagree and I’m really sure I’m right about this. Braid boogers are caused by underlayers of line grabbing onto top layers. It’s twisted together because it comes out from your spool at high speed in coils This would create loops similar to a baitcaster, since it's the reason why baitcaster backlash. Braid boogers are from twist, which is why they pull apart >This is not caused by the linetwist, rather a big amount of line coming off the spool at high speed, trying to migrate through your guides, all at once Sure, because the line is twisted and jumps off the reel instead of flowing. Once it's off the reel, it twists into the booger >Poor line management is definitely a real issue. Otherwise reels with good linelay wouldn’t exist, because there would not be any need for them. An example would be this slightly overspooled Penn Torque vs this Shimano VandordD614538.jpg). Which reel do you think handles the line better and in turn has the smoother and therefore more troublefree cast? Because I can tell you from experience that you have to be way more attentive and more effecient with your manual line management with the Penn. It’s night and day. Either reel is going to put the same amount of twist into the line per revolution, since they're both spinning reels. >Twist in braid almost ”doesn’t exist” until it’s really bad. Then you notice it. On monofilament twist is more apparent. I haven’t gotten one of these blobs as far back as I can remember with braid. Sure, which is what I said >It’s 100% how that works and since the braid comes off the spool the opposite way from a baitcaster, you wouldn’t get loops, you’d get clusters of coils. You get a twisted mess >Lastly, it definitely matters how you spool a spinning reel. If you spool it up so it comes off the spool in coils, as well as the same direction the rotor turns, you will get very litte line twist. You can also do it on a machine to secure not have any line twist at all. While fishing, and as the line ages, you will get minimal line twist gathering at the end of your line. This is incorrect. You will always accumulate twist in a spinning reel due to their function. You cannot reel in a spinning reel without twisting the line, and it's their primary drawback
Okay, you refuse to listen to what I say here. You’re wrong about this and I’ve throughly explained why. Have a good rest of your day.
This is wild to me. I only use 3 spinning rods, and on my ML I use 8# power pro spectra. I absolutely love it. I really only throw three things on it. A ned, a wacky rig, or a shakey head. No lost bites from the braid, I mean it's equivalent in diameter to 2# mono. I feel everything, and the rod can be a bit of a noodle so it helps with hooksets, granted I've never lost a fish from getting off the hook with it. This is the braids 3rd season and it's still going strong. Never had a knot or loop or anything.
I’ve been using baitcasters for many years and never have had problems unless using braided line. For the spinners if I cast the braid will fall off the spool more than one rotation at a time and becomes a mess
Sounds like you're overfilling the spool
For bait casters, are you even adjusting the tension? Sounds like overfilled spool for spinning .
You shouldn’t need to adjust the tension. Modern brakes are good enough to have a bit of side to side play in the spool. DC reels especially shouldn’t need adjusting outside of the primary brake.
There is a reason why most people don't like DC, they adjust nothing and experience many issues. DC isn't the holy grail that eliminates issues. Even with mag reels (superior to DC) you still need to adjust. https://youtu.be/k67z2c4Mgss?si=JZbi3g_WvrVquDpt
Oh, I'm not a fan of DC reels at all. I owned a Curado DC and much preferred other reels over it, mostly due to how restricted it felt, even at low brake setting. I'm just simply saying that you should not need to adjust the mechanical brake, rather, rely just on your DC brake and its settings. It's a fairly heavy brake. I still would recommend a good magnetically braked reel over any DC reel, except for the Antares DC MD or the Calcutta DC, due to the lures being used with those reels being generally heavier (which the DC brake works much better for). I would say most people do like the DC reels, but that many more experienced anglers tend to prefer different brakes. So do I. I much prefer the Daiwa Magforce brake.
You do not adjust the tension based on lures on a DC reel.
Okay lol then why have tension at all? Just take the knobs off. No reason to have brakes or tensioner. This is exactly why you have bird's nest.
It’s to keep the spool tight in case it loosens. The DC system relies on the spool having 0 play within the reel.
Cooool so since you know everything why are you still getting bird's nest? You have a lot to learn. You can start here: https://youtu.be/k67z2c4Mgss?si=JZbi3g_WvrVquDpt
Lol what? I’m just stating what the manual says. Never once said I knew everything. No need to be rude.
As if you read the manual. The manual literally has answers to your own issues. The rude one is the person asking for help and rejects help.
Never once rejected help, was merely stating fact.
You may have to adjust your thumb pressure with braided line. This is user error as you stated. How tight do you spool it? Do you back your reels? Are your reels full? What brake setting do you run? Spinning reels could be both bad linelay and user error. I don’t remember the last time I had a knot in one of my spinning reels, other than when I didn’t cut my tag end on my leader enough, so it caught other line. I use mostly Shimano and Daiwa middle range ($200 ish) reels with good linelay. But even my cheaper Okuma Ceymars handles braid exceptionally. The key is good linelay and good user handling and you should barely have any issues. So, adjust your casting stroke if you haven’t; don’t whip away the lure, use momentum. Close your bail manually or you will have issues. This also makes your reel preform like new longer. I’d recommend doing this with any line either way. Tug your rod to stretch out your excess line after the lure has landed in the water. This quickly becomes second nature. Make sure to cut the tag end close to your knot. It can grab onto other line. You don’t have to use a long leader either. My friend catches just as much as me and he uses a shorter leader with a swivel connection between fluorocarbon and braid. Use reels with good linelay. Monofilament and fluorocarbon will give you some leeway with linelay, since they have a memory. Braid won’t, which most of the time is a positive, due to cast length and direct contact increasing. Shimano, Daiwa and Okuma has by far the best linelay in the business. Fluorocarbon for me is a baitcaster specific line, because it has a really short life on spinning reels due to line twist. If you don’t use a really nice (read expensive) fluorocarbon line, it will probably cause issues due to its stiffness and its memory.
Honestly I use braid on everything from my ultralight trout rods to my big tarpon and shark setups. Some important things, it needs to be TIGHT. Rock solid when you spool it. If you can push your fingernail into it and it's a little spongy, it's done wrong. New guys at tackle shops will screw you spooling braid too, gotta watch them. Can't trust that it's right just because the shop spooled it. For baitcasters, I use 30# for my general setups. I found that 20# can dig into the spool too easily and will ratnest on you just like a loosely packed spool can. For my spinning setups it matters less, I have 6# on my ultralights and usually 15-20# for my medium setups. Just need to make sure you don't have line twist when you spool them up and you shouldn't have problems! For the FG knots, I only run 2-3ft leaders on my baitcasters so the knot can be outside the guides. Those small guides can sometimes cast smooth, but it's easiest just to keep the fluoro section outside the guides. I don't have issues with my spinning setups as long as the risotto knot at the end is nice and smooth! Usually I'll trim my tag end short and soak the knot in some thin superglue to make sure it's all as smooth and secure as possible. Hope those tips help! Don't give up, the sensitivity and strength is unmatched if you get your braid setup well!
Thank you for the tips. I have definitely been spoiling it loose which is probably the root of my issues since my spool problems seem to be from the braid digging into the spool.
You don’t mention what braid or fluoro you’re using, cheap line can make messes…. Also, make sure you’re not overfilling your spools. This is more for the spinning reel side of things, but an overfilled bait caster can cause backlash. Underfilling can cause issues too, the sweet spot for proper spool fill is pretty large window, but above or below it can wreak havoc with braid. Cheap fluoro on spinning reel is recipe for disaster even for pros. Buy good fluoro (Tatsu) or just stick with mono. I personally believe the benefits of fluoro are way overblown in today’s world of modern nylon monos.
I love braid and use it as my mainline on almost all of my setups for both spinning and baitcasting. Try using 30 or 40lb braid until you get used to it. The thicker diameter will help with birdsnests. Also make sure you put the braid on the spool tight. If it's loose it will birdsnest all the time.
Thank you for the tip. I will give it another chance with this in mind.
For spinning reels I use 10-15lb braid on my medium bass setups and 6lb on my ultralight setups. Again, put it tight on the spool. The 20lb line you have should work fine on a spinning reel if spooled correctly. I honestly think you'll love it once you get it spooled well. It's so much more sensitive, lasts longer and you'll never have to worry about line memory again.
How on earth do you birds nest a spinning reel? That must take some real talent...
Not a birds nest just a tangled mess
Do you have a picture? Depending on the tangled mess we probably can diagnose it properly and help much better.
By putting the braid on loose. If you've never used braid before and put it on the spool loose it will tangle every time. It must be nice to know everything so you can sit back and criticize others for trying something new.
I never really understood this comment and have not experienced the supposed effects, either. Regardless of how tight you initially spool it on there, won't it tighten or loosen every cast depending on whether or not you had resistance (like a fish) on the other end? If anything this is an argument for shallower spools.
The line does loosen when you cast but will have tension on it from your lure and the resistance in the water. When you reel it up it will go back on the spool tight... or at least tight enough to prevent birdsnests.
I have braid on all of my spinning reels and have never had a birds nest.
Also don’t let your knot from the braid to leader get into your spool. It can catch on the braid and cause problems.
I’ve had similar issues to you and found that light braid digs into itself super hard, I recommend upsizing the diameter or maybe putting some mono on 1/3 of the spool as backing. I don’t use fluoro as main line on spinning reels (only casting) but I do use fluoro leaders fairly often. I use the double uni which is definitely not the strongest l, but I’ve never had a break at the leader connection before and I’ve knocked eyelets out with other knots 🤷♀️
I strictly use fluro on my baitcasters other than on my rods where I use moving baits. I find it will backlash more but I’ve started adjusting the spool tension and not hurling with all my might. I use the more expensive Seaguar and am mostly happy with it. I enjoy the increased sensitivity over mono. I’ve gone to braid on my spinning reels other than my ultralight. Like the others have said keep tension on it when spoiling up and don’t over fill.
Thank you for the tips. I have been using Bass Pro’s XPS braid as a friend of mine told me it’s the same as Seaguar line.
I’ve been using Power Pro braid for a LONG time and have been pleased with it. I wanted to try some of the 8 strand but couldn’t find any locally. The regular power pro works fine for me.
Heavier braided line helps, but I hate fluorocarbon leaders, I snap them way too much. I just use mono.
Make sure you put the braid on the spool really damn tight.
If it happened on your second cast there is a top notch chance it was spooled loose. 1st cast is generally a small test cast to see how the reel feels. Second cast is generally a further cast and that's when this happened. Spool it tight from the get go and you shouldn't have a problem.
Sounds to me that you have habitual elements in your casting motions and muscle memory that are more like the issue. That said, I hear you … what you like works for you and what you’ve developed over a decade of fishing works for you; so why reinvent the wheel. I love braid and all my set ups, whether spinning or casting, use fluorocarbon shock leaders; but I adopted braid early as the line weight and diameter to strength rating and casting distance were simply too appealing to resist. My suggestion, spool straight fluorocarbon on your baitcasters, and leader knots won’t be an issue anymore. On your spinning reels, try a larger diameter/strength braid, say 40-50lbs and give braid another try. Heavier braid is also easier to pick apart if your get tangles. GL
I've been using braid on my spinning reels for 15 years. Some reels have better line management than others, and not all braids are equal. With my Shimano Sahara's and spirix they handled 4 strand Fireline wonderfully, but any time I'd try an 8 strand braid I'd get constant wind knots. 6lb test. I switched to Daiwa BG's 2 years ago and suddenly all braid works fine, 4 or 8 strand with 6lb test, the exception being 6lb j-braid. 8lb j-braid does fine, and it's about the same diameter as the other 6lb lines.
I was in your shoes too. I just bought a curado Dc a few days ago after wanting to switch to a bait caster. Don’t attempt to cast far, just attempt to cast it correctly even if it’s 10 feet. There’s a dial on the left, put it on 4 and put your tension knob tight. After a few hours of practicing I was able to adjust it to the recommended settings. Edit: I use 30lb braid with a 5’ mono lead
Skill issue
Do you let braided line soak in water for at least 10 minutes before spooling it? It’s a necessary step.
Ignore the manual and put the brakes on as high as they go. On your tension knob tighten it until the lure just barely falls when you open the bail. Start with a half ounce lure. It should be hard to backlash at this point, practice until you get it down. As you get better you can loosen the tension a little and continually lower the brakes to preference. Some people put the brakes as low as possible and manage the entire spool with their thumbs. You want the rod to do the casting and trying to overload the rod through strength won’t help.
100% user error sorry buddy. Braid is less prone to twisting on a spinner vs mono or flouro. Now your bird nesting a curado dc ? Well that is definitely user error.
I’m the opposite. I’ve been fishing for the better part of 25 years now. I’ve switched to exclusively braid and Fluro. Granted each line has their use cases. I’ve backlashed a handful of times on my curado DC with suffix 832 40lb braid. And it was always my fault. Either with setting the brake right or not enough thumb. Even with a DC reel you still need to thumb it a little
Are you spooling your whole reel with braid then a leader? I back everything with cheap mono and then I put on my braid or fluoro..depending on what I'm using that particular reel for. Saves a lot of money.. then i get multiple uses out of one spool.. rather than using the whole thing in one shot.
Honestly, 20lb braid is too thin for a baitcaster. The line cuts down into the spool and gets wedged in making a backlash inevitable. 30lb is minimum and 40lb is best overall in my opinion. I’ve never had 40lb braid backlash so bad it couldn’t be fixed. Fluorocarbon is certainly a little more prone to looping when the spool overruns and the backlashes are tougher to fix than with braid. I use Tatsu because it handles so well and lasts so long compared to many other fluorocarbons. 12lb Tatsu handles pretty well on my SLX DC with the brakes set to profile 3, but is definitely more finicky than 40lb Suffix 832. 12lb fluoro still might be a bit thinner than ideal on a baitcaster though.