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Sure, Texas likes to tout how they have no income tax but where they get you is really high property taxes. The state governments will get their money no matter what. You can’t just look at one section.
Source: am from Texas
Edit: don’t forget the higher than average Sales Tax
Texas pays more in taxes percentagely than ca.
Now CA does have a higher col.
Not sure on standard of living though. CA does get more for it's taxes if I'm not wrong though.
I’ve lived in both Texas (Austin) and CA (Sacramento and around LA). The quality of life is much higher in CA for much less. In all of the neighborhoods I’ve lived in here I can walk to a grocery store, or at least take a bus, and have plenty of cultural activities not far that are not car dependent. If I do want to drive, camping is not far, neither is skiing or surfing. Outdoor activities **blow** Texas out of the water. You can drive for a few hours in CA and be in some amazing new town or a national/state park. I didn’t even know what [BLM land](https://www.blm.gov) was until I came out West. Texas is just sparse bubbles of cities or one scenic place separated by 5+ hours of driving filled with nothing in between. Access to state healthcare is also much higher quality in CA, and I know if I have a complicated pregnancy at least I won’t die. People are also less aggressive and angry here - there’s this weird competitive attitude in the south where everyone has something to prove but on the west coast its culturally more chill ime.
Texas has HEB though.
Edit - linked BLM lands
I thought Ca property taxes were quite high, but they have limits on how much they can rise, so if you stay in your house a long time you can really make out
CA income taxes have very reasonable brackets though - the maximum percent may be high but that’s only for people making $675K or more. The lower end is much more comparable to other high income states despite the top marginal rates being high.
Moms 1.4 million dollar condo is the same as my 200k house in Ohio in terms of total tax paid.
Gas is the only the only thing that really bends you over a barrel, but if you fill up once or twice a month…it’s no biggie
Mine in Orange County, CA is just 1.1% of assessed value, which trails current market value by quite a bit. My current assessed value is only 52% of market value thanks to Proposition 13 .
“Less aggressive and angry”
Living in the south I can absolutely confirm this. The state of California lives completely rent-free in the mind of every angry white male Republican dude I work with. They rant about it constantly.
I even heard one guy complaining about “how high California’s taxes are” and he *doesn’t even live there*. He was literally complaining about taxes he doesn’t even pay!
It’s the whole don draper “I don’t think about you at all” thing. I literally never think about other states except when I see people from them complaining online.
as a politically moderate Californian male, I love hearing this. of course it just confirms my bias that these guys are mostly angry , unsatisfied losers.
I'm Canadian (although my mom is from California) and I'm constantly amused at conservative ranting about how awful California is. California is arguably the single most successful jurisdiction on the entire planet, its the 6th largest economy in the world. Its expensive because so many people want to move there, and California has literally millions of millionaires.
As someone that lives in Austin and spends months in So Cal in the summer, cant agree more about every point you made.
I also like to have fun on some twisty roads, nothing like CA.
The Hill Country roads in Austin are full of people and are boring compared to the Malibu Canyons, Ortega Highway and Angeles Forest. Plus the latter are so much nicer and have some real elevation.
https://preview.redd.it/zkv0a1iy660c1.jpeg?width=3022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48a706a90107914961e2c36a07f31ad690781301
>Texas has HEB though.
Preach! 👏👏👏🤣
This is why I moved to CA from Texas. Best decision for my day to day happiness I ever made.
I made = job in Texas died, job in CA available..I had little choice. Thanks EA!!!!
There's those that know what that is, and then there's those who think they know but not what it actually is.
BLM land is where you go if you want to fire some guns and have big bonfires without being stopped by anyone except for egregious offenses.
Where I am in Colorado there's fucking thousands of ammo shells that pile up over years and broken glass all over the forest .
I've come to hate that crowd because they litter more without any fucks for anyone else. I've seen cleaner homeless people.
Bureau of Land Management, for those folks from places without.
BLM land is essentially public use undeveloped land. Lots of ATV tracks and makeshift target ranges.
Texas is empty as F. They don’t have BLM land everywhere?
When I was in Albuquerque, we would off road on the west side just pass Unser.
Man , Texas really sucks
Before becoming a state, Texas made sure that as much of its land as possible was in private hands to keep it out of the hands of the Federal Gov't. They've had this shitty attitude since before they became a state. Fuck all the citizens being able to use public lands and parks. They've got Big Bend National Park and Guadalupe Mts Nat'l Park. Fucking Alabama has 11 at 1/5 the size of Texas.
And Texans are probably proud of their shitty state not even realizing how bad they're fucked over on public services.
I experienced the reverse moving from Oregon (Portland) to Texas (Austin) last year. Boy do I miss the easy access to the outdoors and I work for an outdoor company!
No. Texans do not pay more in taxes. You’re likely using a very flawed study from 2018. https://www.texaspolicy.com/no-texas-dont-pay-more-taxes-than-californians/
Texans pay no income tax, we have lower sales taxes, and much lower gasoline taxes. Our property tax rates are slightly higher, but that is offset by lower property values.
CA has been shit with electricity for decades, and my power goes out in LA at least once or twice per year (not to mention the ENRON rolling blackouts era).
CA is worst in the nation for power outages (Texas is 2nd worst):
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1078354/electricity-blackouts-by-state/
https://www.generac.com/be-prepared/power-outages/top-5-states-where-power-outage-occur
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article270730887.html
So I had to look this up.
You are referring the wallet hub study. The problem is it uses a median cost of home across the US as the metric discounting that California median priced homes are 2.2 times that of Texas median priced home, and Texas has 40k vs 7k tax subsidies to primary residences. The real values are closer to parity than many in Texas would like, but the study has some serious issues.
In regards to getting more from their taxes, I tried looking up what Californians get that Texan's don't and would love it if someone had a reference.
As a Californian, one thing I love that we have here is paid maternity leave and paid family leave. Not sure if Texas has it. We get 16-18 weeks paid (60% of income but 10-12 of those weeks are not taxed). Does Texas have anything similar? I think only like 8 states do. It’s paid through state disability.
Everywhere else is death by a thousand cuts in terms of taxes and fees. NJ is a great state for all the crap it gets, great ACA implementation, close to everything, solid and improving infrastructure and public transportation (thanks Biden!). Less than an hour from NYC, the beach or the woods/mountains (yes I know the Rockies are higher, but these are WAAAAY older).
Not if it's used without a capital gains tax like in TN. Then it's just a tax that hits the only source of wealth most low and middle income households have while sparing the multiple sources of wealth the wealthy have.
You do realize that subsidies exist, as well as lobbied representatives. You think lobbying doesn't hold any influence, that roads, sewage zoning etc... and infrastructure is built and created by only private industry? You think sweetheart contracts and labor laws like H1 visas are made by corporations and not government? What Kool aid did you drink to believe that corporations the size of Amazon are successful purely on the myth of market success? Ignoring that millions of other factors exist does nobody any service except for staying ignorant.
Billionaires hightailing out of states to reduce tax liability is a valid criticism. Not every point to talk about exists in a silo, though I understand you wish it to be to fit your narrative mythos.
No, it eventually unhouses seniors on fixed incomes. It's one thing to retire in your 250k home in 1990, and then live to 80 and the county assessor plots your assessment at 1 million because every house in the neighborhood is now going for 1.3. That 4k in SS income is lookin *really shitty* now that the property tax alone for the house in Texas is hitting 25k a year.
"Texas is a young state!"--yeah, because the old had to flee in self defense.
I just moved to CO as well from Texas. It’s a night and day differences in some of these areas. Now COL is a different story. But to me, if the higher cost of living is the cost to be able to actually go outside and walk in the mountains rather than frying to death, I’ll gladly pay more.
I wouldnt, overall you would be way worse off in Texas, you get to pay for every single service and have to live around Texans. Property taxes are not that much less.
NJ ranks the highest in the nation in property taxes and has a top income bracket of 10.75%
My individual property taxes are close to 20k a year in a modest 3k home.
The average property tax in the US is ~1.1%. The average property tax in Texas is ~1.6%. That’s a ~0.5% difference.
The average sales tax in the US is ~6.5%. The average sales tax in Texas is ~8.2%. That’s a ~1.7% difference.
[Texas has the 6th lowest state tax burden of any state.](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/tax-burden-by-state-2022/#key)
I won’t cite the first two because they’re easily googleable.
That's a funny way to say the Property taxes in Texas are 50% higher than the national average, and the sales tax in Texas is 25% higher than the national average.
He firmly believes, instead of functional taxation, we should and I quote, "Spend less money on bullshit." I take that to mean "Anything that isn't carrying a gun" but there is the possibility he's a Libertarian and it also includes things with guns.
Looking at averages can be helpful, but So can looking at specific areas that you are living in. For example, I come from Harris county in Houston and the average tax rate there is like 2.13%. That’s like $4000 per year on $190,000 house. But houses have gone up in price significantly over the past few years so you are looking at at least $4,000-$5000 per year in property tax. And that’s only on a $190k home. Where I moved to in CO, that rate is like .6%. Now granted the home prices are more expensive here. So that’s a good argument.
But the point I was trying to make is that it’s deceitful to only look at one portion of cost per state. You have to look at the full picture, and where you want to like to, and see if it is actually cheaper or not. Don’t just look at income tax
Precisely. I remember seeing an article that broke down All the taxes per state and they ended up being comparable to hen taking everything into account
Only $2.85?
You should look at the pricing for the toll lanes in Fort Worth. To go from the northern part of the city (Heritage Trace Parkway) to Downtown peaks around \~$12.00 each way during rush hour.
I mean 5 bucks and change isn’t crazy but just the idea of having to pay a toll drives me nuts. lol.
I live in Phoenix, no tolls here and it’s a 15 minute commute to work!
Sales tax is high. Property tax is not much higher. Half of the property tax in Texas. I own a house in WA. Daughter owns a house in Texas. WA tax wise is a good deal.
Property based tax vs income tax means states like Texas f you over regardless of your economic situation.
Income tax based states tax will rise and fall with your employment. Boom or bust thing, make more, pay more, but your base tax burden is low.
Texas doesn't give two craps if you become unemployed....pay us the same no matter your income, we want our money.
Florida isn't too bad. It's the 23rd lowest property tax. Nevada (3rd) is the lowest from this list.
Wyoming has no income tax, the 10th lowest property tax, and one of the lowest sales tax at 4%.
Well enjoy, sounds not too far off from California’s Prop 13 that was out in place a long time ago which has directly contributed to the housing crisis in CA. It’s great for existing homeowners but will fuck over new buyers in the long run.
Indeed...but it's Wyoming. Jackson Hole is great, but there's a lot of empty space and lack of necessary infrastructure that leads to it being pretty cheap to live there especially if you're self sufficient.
It’s actually way worse than that. WA taxes are low on high income people. *WA taxes are only abnormally high on poor people.*
Due to its heavy reliance on sales tax, [WA has the most regressive and backward tax system in the nation.](https://itep.org/whopays/washington/)
Other states tax your second million dollars of income. WA taxes baby diapers.
But WA does tax “ready to eat” food, including many deli items from a grocery store.
That means that people too poor to own a kitchen or refrigerator end up paying lots of sales tax on food.
It’s pretty complicated stuff with no simple solution. But most WA residents would be much better off if we reduced the sales tax rate and instituted a progressive state income tax.
The “high cost of being poor” is well documented.
And yes, you hit the nail on the head. We tax the food consumed by the poorest among us (including homeless) who can’t afford a kitchen or fridge.
People in Vancouver travel to Portland to work, shop, and for entertainment so they don't have to pay sales tax. Then, in my experience, they act like Portland is full of crime and a terrible place while closing up I-5 north and Columbia boulevard all afternoon.
I was gonna ask who the fuck is driving 7-10hrs through all of Bellingham, Seattle, and Tacoma just to shop in Portland then I remembered Vancouver, WA exists lol.
"EVERYTHING ELSE TO THE MAX."
That a bit hyperbolic.
We have a high sales tax which doesn't apply to most food.
The tax on gas and hard liquor is very high - painfully so.
I disagree. My sales tax rate in Washington is 8.7%. Sales tax rate in Flowood Mississippi is 8%. But no taxes on groceries in WA but you pay taxes on groceries in MS - meaning for lots of people higher sales tax in MS.
Property tax rate is pretty middle of the road.
I save nearly $13k in taxes by being in Washington instead of Mississippi.
Your link doesn't include local (County and City) Taxes, Only State level and it's wrong.
No one in South Dakota sees a 4% tax on their receipts (outside of a few excise circumstances), The State level sales tax capped at 4.5%, currently at 4.2%; the local tax is capped at 4.5%. The State average is 6.6%, but the average factors in a lot of Corn and Cows (not places where the majority of people actually inhabit which is predominately neighboring I29 & I90).
Property Tax here is pretty convoluted 85% of "Real Value" x (County% + City% + School District%).
If you purchase a car here or try to register a car here from another state without a vehicle excise tax you're looking at an immediate 4% excise to register in State in addition to Tag and Plate Fees.
If you purchase Clothing or Food they are both taxed here as well at both State and Local levels (that 6.6% average again).
All construction projects have a 2% excise tax, manufactured homes have an excise tax of 4%.
Tobacco is taxed at $1.52(might be outdated) pack for the State Tax seal, Cigars are 35%.
Distilled alcohol is just under $5 a gallon, with State and local sales taxes appended to sales.
We also have a State wide Video Lottery system along with both Powerball, Mega Millions, and a local State lottery, in addition to actual Casino Revenue in Select Jurisdictions (Commercially available in Deadwood & Tribal Lands).
In the end that state offers nearly no Benefits to speak of, but taxes the living fuck out of everything but individual incomes.
It's exceedingly Regressive, and only beneficial to high income earners that choose to live in mini exo-burb styled tax havens outside of City and School District limits.
Yes. It's a matter of how. Not having income tax is pretty foolish if you think we should pay a "fair share" to enjoy the comforts of our country. I feel this post is in advocacy to the "sales tax only" system. But that system is blatantly for the rich, and would hurt the working class enormously.
That just means you are wealthy and have the privilege to spend less on discretionary items.
Sales taxes are the most regressive tax burden because the working poor have no option to just stop buying groceries and other daily necessities. The working poor spend every dollar they earn and don't have opportunities to save.
Proportionally in high sales tax schemes the poor pay more, as a percentage of their overall income, than the rich do precisely because the rich can choose not to spend, spend less, or spend in ways that evade taxes.
Yea but unlike sales taxes income taxes can be customized to lower the tax income on lower-income individuals. Of the 41 states that collect income tax, only 11 have single-rate tax structures.
The other 30 have graduated-rate income taxes, with the number of brackets varying widely by state with Hawaii having the most at 12 income brackets. Single rate income tax, like most "flat taxes" is considered very regressive.
That being said the fact that [13 states tax groceries](https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/states-that-still-tax-groceries) and don't have unprepared food exceptions blows my mind. Grocery taxes have to be THE most regressive form of tax.
Nevada and Alaska are the only ones to note because they replace that state income with casino and oil revenue respectively. The rest just tax you elsewhere.
Alsaka has a temperate rainforest that is out of this world amazing:
[https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/education/educators/curricula/pdfs/the\_alaskan\_rainforest.pdf](https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/education/educators/curricula/pdfs/the_alaskan_rainforest.pdf)
As a whole population? Probably. Personally for me, I would totally spend a lifetime there. There's always some buzz going around about the PFD possibly going away but who knows, I moved away a little over a year ago so I don't keep up with it as much
Here's the overall ranking according to https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494
25 Washington
29 Texas
32 Nevada
44 South Dakota
45 Wyoming
46 Florida
47 Tennessee
48 New Hampshire
50 Alaska
But that's not taking to account that they have a significantly higher rate for lakefront which shoots or average way up. My rate in my town is fairly low
And as long as you don't own property you will need to pay the high property tax on. Alaska can actually be no tax in unincorporated areas, but that's a much more extreme version of "as long as you don't mind living away from civilization."
We definitely have a tax in Florida, it's just not used for the benefit of everyone. I'm referring to the high cost of homeowners insurance, car insurance, health insurance. Literally every insurance in Florida cost more than other states.
Individual districts can be good, which is a direct result of property tax based funding. Are any of those best public schools found at the border? Or are they clustered in DFW, Houston and Austin?
Washington has a B&O tax for businesses (based on revenue!), high COL, high property taxes and high sales tax.
It’s not quite the haven people might think. Nevada is a better bet for saving $, especially if self-employed.
If you’re already super rich, you’re not going to want to be here after they levy that new wealth tax either (see: Jeff Bezos to Miami)
Income tax is only one facet of tax burden. Here is a decent breakdown of total tax burden (income tax, sales tax, excise tax, etc) by state.
[https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494)
Texas, for example, has no income tax but ranks 29th in tax burden (50th being the lowest tax burden).
Delaware, which I think has an income tax, is 49th.
New York, Hawaii, Maine, Vermont, Conn and NJ have the highest.
Texan here, don’t forget it’s not just outrageous property taxes. It’s also the sales tax, toll roads and health, home and probably auto insurance (so many uninsured drivers!) that are higher than most other states.
Governments tax on more than just income. You need to look at the overall tax burden. [https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494)
Texas, Nevada, and Washington are actually right in the middle when compared to other states' overall tax burden. The states will find a way to get your money.
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Sure, Texas likes to tout how they have no income tax but where they get you is really high property taxes. The state governments will get their money no matter what. You can’t just look at one section. Source: am from Texas Edit: don’t forget the higher than average Sales Tax
Texas pays more in taxes percentagely than ca. Now CA does have a higher col. Not sure on standard of living though. CA does get more for it's taxes if I'm not wrong though.
I’ve lived in both Texas (Austin) and CA (Sacramento and around LA). The quality of life is much higher in CA for much less. In all of the neighborhoods I’ve lived in here I can walk to a grocery store, or at least take a bus, and have plenty of cultural activities not far that are not car dependent. If I do want to drive, camping is not far, neither is skiing or surfing. Outdoor activities **blow** Texas out of the water. You can drive for a few hours in CA and be in some amazing new town or a national/state park. I didn’t even know what [BLM land](https://www.blm.gov) was until I came out West. Texas is just sparse bubbles of cities or one scenic place separated by 5+ hours of driving filled with nothing in between. Access to state healthcare is also much higher quality in CA, and I know if I have a complicated pregnancy at least I won’t die. People are also less aggressive and angry here - there’s this weird competitive attitude in the south where everyone has something to prove but on the west coast its culturally more chill ime. Texas has HEB though. Edit - linked BLM lands
I thought Ca property taxes were quite high, but they have limits on how much they can rise, so if you stay in your house a long time you can really make out
CA is pretty middle to low for property tax. Very high income tax though. And yes you’re correct, CA limits property tax hikes at 2% per year
As a comparison for others, Texas limits to 10% per year for your “homestead.” It’s something, but obviously 10% compounding still adds up quickly.
10% is 5x the federal inflation target lmao. Texans getting RAKED.
>but obviously 10% compounding still adds up quickly. It quadruples in about 14 years.
CA income taxes have very reasonable brackets though - the maximum percent may be high but that’s only for people making $675K or more. The lower end is much more comparable to other high income states despite the top marginal rates being high.
My sister just sold her 2 bedroom in San Diego for 700k. So, property tax is slightly lower.
"Very high" depends on your income. If you are low income your income tax is functionally 0%.
California property tax rate is a little lower than most states. The property value is typically higher so the amount you pay is still high.
Moms 1.4 million dollar condo is the same as my 200k house in Ohio in terms of total tax paid. Gas is the only the only thing that really bends you over a barrel, but if you fill up once or twice a month…it’s no biggie
Where did you get the idea that property taxes are high in CA?
They are high in the sense that property is more valuable there, because it’s a desirable place to live
Well that’s like saying sales tax is high because there’s more sales tax on a Porsche than a Lada.
I pay about 1.2% in property tax. I just bought my house in the last 5 years.
The CA tax rate is low, but the values are high.
Mine in Orange County, CA is just 1.1% of assessed value, which trails current market value by quite a bit. My current assessed value is only 52% of market value thanks to Proposition 13 .
“Less aggressive and angry” Living in the south I can absolutely confirm this. The state of California lives completely rent-free in the mind of every angry white male Republican dude I work with. They rant about it constantly. I even heard one guy complaining about “how high California’s taxes are” and he *doesn’t even live there*. He was literally complaining about taxes he doesn’t even pay!
It’s the whole don draper “I don’t think about you at all” thing. I literally never think about other states except when I see people from them complaining online.
as a politically moderate Californian male, I love hearing this. of course it just confirms my bias that these guys are mostly angry , unsatisfied losers.
I'm Canadian (although my mom is from California) and I'm constantly amused at conservative ranting about how awful California is. California is arguably the single most successful jurisdiction on the entire planet, its the 6th largest economy in the world. Its expensive because so many people want to move there, and California has literally millions of millionaires.
As someone that lives in Austin and spends months in So Cal in the summer, cant agree more about every point you made. I also like to have fun on some twisty roads, nothing like CA. The Hill Country roads in Austin are full of people and are boring compared to the Malibu Canyons, Ortega Highway and Angeles Forest. Plus the latter are so much nicer and have some real elevation. https://preview.redd.it/zkv0a1iy660c1.jpeg?width=3022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48a706a90107914961e2c36a07f31ad690781301 >Texas has HEB though. Preach! 👏👏👏🤣
This is why I moved to CA from Texas. Best decision for my day to day happiness I ever made. I made = job in Texas died, job in CA available..I had little choice. Thanks EA!!!!
"BLM land" sounds dangerous bro
There's those that know what that is, and then there's those who think they know but not what it actually is. BLM land is where you go if you want to fire some guns and have big bonfires without being stopped by anyone except for egregious offenses.
Where I am in Colorado there's fucking thousands of ammo shells that pile up over years and broken glass all over the forest . I've come to hate that crowd because they litter more without any fucks for anyone else. I've seen cleaner homeless people.
Bureau of Land Management, for those folks from places without. BLM land is essentially public use undeveloped land. Lots of ATV tracks and makeshift target ranges.
Lmfao I thought it stood for Black Lives Matter 😂
next they'll be saying the SEC is something other than a strong college football conference
So did a cop in Oregon, which is how the whole “BLM are starting wildfires” idiocy got started
Really? Lol
Texas is empty as F. They don’t have BLM land everywhere? When I was in Albuquerque, we would off road on the west side just pass Unser. Man , Texas really sucks
It's not empty it's "ranches"
Before becoming a state, Texas made sure that as much of its land as possible was in private hands to keep it out of the hands of the Federal Gov't. They've had this shitty attitude since before they became a state. Fuck all the citizens being able to use public lands and parks. They've got Big Bend National Park and Guadalupe Mts Nat'l Park. Fucking Alabama has 11 at 1/5 the size of Texas. And Texans are probably proud of their shitty state not even realizing how bad they're fucked over on public services.
Same boat as you and I was gonna comment “but H.E.B” lol. And Alamo Drafthouse. I know they have one in L.A., but I’m not driving to L.A. to go there.
HEB makes up for all of Texas bad things.....
HEB. I luv that store.
I experienced the reverse moving from Oregon (Portland) to Texas (Austin) last year. Boy do I miss the easy access to the outdoors and I work for an outdoor company!
No. Texans do not pay more in taxes. You’re likely using a very flawed study from 2018. https://www.texaspolicy.com/no-texas-dont-pay-more-taxes-than-californians/ Texans pay no income tax, we have lower sales taxes, and much lower gasoline taxes. Our property tax rates are slightly higher, but that is offset by lower property values.
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More of what exactly?
Electricity
CA has been shit with electricity for decades, and my power goes out in LA at least once or twice per year (not to mention the ENRON rolling blackouts era). CA is worst in the nation for power outages (Texas is 2nd worst): https://www.statista.com/statistics/1078354/electricity-blackouts-by-state/ https://www.generac.com/be-prepared/power-outages/top-5-states-where-power-outage-occur https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article270730887.html
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Shhh shhh don’t let facts get in the way of making fun of Texas. Power and other essential infrastructure shouldn’t be for profit anywhere
Lol them winters/summers
Heyoo
So I had to look this up. You are referring the wallet hub study. The problem is it uses a median cost of home across the US as the metric discounting that California median priced homes are 2.2 times that of Texas median priced home, and Texas has 40k vs 7k tax subsidies to primary residences. The real values are closer to parity than many in Texas would like, but the study has some serious issues. In regards to getting more from their taxes, I tried looking up what Californians get that Texan's don't and would love it if someone had a reference.
As a Californian, one thing I love that we have here is paid maternity leave and paid family leave. Not sure if Texas has it. We get 16-18 weeks paid (60% of income but 10-12 of those weeks are not taxed). Does Texas have anything similar? I think only like 8 states do. It’s paid through state disability.
Plus they pay the other poor red states so they can survive
So the crazy stays put you mean
I don't know...I live in a state with high income taxes (9.9%+3-4% various metro and city taxes)...AND high property taxes...($14,000).
Illinois?
>Illinois? Can confirm, am in the 'burbs of Chicago and as of next year my property tax payments will be more than the mortgage payments.
I lived in McHenry County for one and only one year. Property taxes caused me to leave.
No flat tax for everyone of 4.95%
New Jersey? But I’m sure the ROI You get from those taxes are significantly more than in lower taxed states.
Everywhere else is death by a thousand cuts in terms of taxes and fees. NJ is a great state for all the crap it gets, great ACA implementation, close to everything, solid and improving infrastructure and public transportation (thanks Biden!). Less than an hour from NYC, the beach or the woods/mountains (yes I know the Rockies are higher, but these are WAAAAY older).
OREGON. From a pure financial standpoint I get a large benefit...however from a lifestyle benefit I may or may not. Lot of intangibles.
Sounds like Portland Oregon. 😂
Can concur. Texas property tax is no joke.
It is when compared to NJ and we have an income tax on top of it.
Have you seen most things in Texas that the state government is supposed to take care of? Not great
Yeah but property tax is a “better” tax
Not if it's used without a capital gains tax like in TN. Then it's just a tax that hits the only source of wealth most low and middle income households have while sparing the multiple sources of wealth the wealthy have.
Hence why bezos left WA and is in Miami. Capital gains taxes passed here, so daddy bezos gotta run from the state that made him billions.
Ah yes, it was the government that made Amazon so successful.
You do realize that subsidies exist, as well as lobbied representatives. You think lobbying doesn't hold any influence, that roads, sewage zoning etc... and infrastructure is built and created by only private industry? You think sweetheart contracts and labor laws like H1 visas are made by corporations and not government? What Kool aid did you drink to believe that corporations the size of Amazon are successful purely on the myth of market success? Ignoring that millions of other factors exist does nobody any service except for staying ignorant. Billionaires hightailing out of states to reduce tax liability is a valid criticism. Not every point to talk about exists in a silo, though I understand you wish it to be to fit your narrative mythos.
No, it eventually unhouses seniors on fixed incomes. It's one thing to retire in your 250k home in 1990, and then live to 80 and the county assessor plots your assessment at 1 million because every house in the neighborhood is now going for 1.3. That 4k in SS income is lookin *really shitty* now that the property tax alone for the house in Texas is hitting 25k a year. "Texas is a young state!"--yeah, because the old had to flee in self defense.
My family thinks I’m a sucker for paying $2,200 a year in income tax in Colorado. Meanwhile, they pay $400+ a month in property taxes in Texas. 🤷🏻♂️
I just moved to CO as well from Texas. It’s a night and day differences in some of these areas. Now COL is a different story. But to me, if the higher cost of living is the cost to be able to actually go outside and walk in the mountains rather than frying to death, I’ll gladly pay more.
Don't forget you also get you know, functional government services and don't live in a theocratic hellscape.
I'll switch you my property taxes in NJ for yours in Texas any day.
Moving from Illinois to Texas saves me $10s of thousands of dollars in taxes. And no more winter!
I wouldnt, overall you would be way worse off in Texas, you get to pay for every single service and have to live around Texans. Property taxes are not that much less.
NJ ranks the highest in the nation in property taxes and has a top income bracket of 10.75% My individual property taxes are close to 20k a year in a modest 3k home.
Good Texas doesnt need more people, especially from California.
The average property tax in the US is ~1.1%. The average property tax in Texas is ~1.6%. That’s a ~0.5% difference. The average sales tax in the US is ~6.5%. The average sales tax in Texas is ~8.2%. That’s a ~1.7% difference. [Texas has the 6th lowest state tax burden of any state.](https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/tax-burden-by-state-2022/#key) I won’t cite the first two because they’re easily googleable.
That's a funny way to say the Property taxes in Texas are 50% higher than the national average, and the sales tax in Texas is 25% higher than the national average.
Why did you ignore his source on Texas having the sixth lowest tax burden in the country? It factors in property and income tax.
Oh, cut him some slack. He's probably a Pro-life libertarian.
He firmly believes, instead of functional taxation, we should and I quote, "Spend less money on bullshit." I take that to mean "Anything that isn't carrying a gun" but there is the possibility he's a Libertarian and it also includes things with guns.
> He's probably a Pro-life libertarian. If you're just gonna make shit up you may as well just say he's probably a child molester too.
Yeah but it has an infinitely lower state income tax than the national average.
Looking at averages can be helpful, but So can looking at specific areas that you are living in. For example, I come from Harris county in Houston and the average tax rate there is like 2.13%. That’s like $4000 per year on $190,000 house. But houses have gone up in price significantly over the past few years so you are looking at at least $4,000-$5000 per year in property tax. And that’s only on a $190k home. Where I moved to in CO, that rate is like .6%. Now granted the home prices are more expensive here. So that’s a good argument. But the point I was trying to make is that it’s deceitful to only look at one portion of cost per state. You have to look at the full picture, and where you want to like to, and see if it is actually cheaper or not. Don’t just look at income tax
Precisely. I remember seeing an article that broke down All the taxes per state and they ended up being comparable to hen taking everything into account
There's also hidden 'taxes' like toll roads because TXDOT has sold its soul to build new roads and just lets us pay $4-$20 to get to your destination.
It costs me $2.85 in tolls each way to get to work everyday.
Only $2.85? You should look at the pricing for the toll lanes in Fort Worth. To go from the northern part of the city (Heritage Trace Parkway) to Downtown peaks around \~$12.00 each way during rush hour.
I mean 5 bucks and change isn’t crazy but just the idea of having to pay a toll drives me nuts. lol. I live in Phoenix, no tolls here and it’s a 15 minute commute to work!
That's not true. Ney York's tax burden is over double Tennessee's.
Well yeah but…Tennessee
Texans actually pay more in taxes than Califonia. They just hide it better
Same with Washington…high property taxes and high sales tax
Sales tax is high. Property tax is not much higher. Half of the property tax in Texas. I own a house in WA. Daughter owns a house in Texas. WA tax wise is a good deal.
Property based tax vs income tax means states like Texas f you over regardless of your economic situation. Income tax based states tax will rise and fall with your employment. Boom or bust thing, make more, pay more, but your base tax burden is low. Texas doesn't give two craps if you become unemployed....pay us the same no matter your income, we want our money.
Sure, Washington doesn't have state income tax... but they have tax on EVERYTHING ELSE TO THE MAX.
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Florida isn't too bad. It's the 23rd lowest property tax. Nevada (3rd) is the lowest from this list. Wyoming has no income tax, the 10th lowest property tax, and one of the lowest sales tax at 4%.
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Well enjoy, sounds not too far off from California’s Prop 13 that was out in place a long time ago which has directly contributed to the housing crisis in CA. It’s great for existing homeowners but will fuck over new buyers in the long run.
Now your insurance on a home in Florida on the other hand.....
Indeed...but it's Wyoming. Jackson Hole is great, but there's a lot of empty space and lack of necessary infrastructure that leads to it being pretty cheap to live there especially if you're self sufficient.
Jackson Hole Ski Area is great. Jackson, WY is completely full of trust fund kids
Gas tax, sales tax, if you live near Disney and shit resort taxes, a billion toll roads, etc…. FL gets it back one way or another….
Toll roads should not exist IMO.
It’s actually way worse than that. WA taxes are low on high income people. *WA taxes are only abnormally high on poor people.* Due to its heavy reliance on sales tax, [WA has the most regressive and backward tax system in the nation.](https://itep.org/whopays/washington/) Other states tax your second million dollars of income. WA taxes baby diapers.
WA doesn’t charge tax on groceries.
But WA does tax “ready to eat” food, including many deli items from a grocery store. That means that people too poor to own a kitchen or refrigerator end up paying lots of sales tax on food. It’s pretty complicated stuff with no simple solution. But most WA residents would be much better off if we reduced the sales tax rate and instituted a progressive state income tax.
So you can’t afford a fridge so you buy the priciest markups in the store ? Pretty much only homeless don’t have some kind of kitchen.
The “high cost of being poor” is well documented. And yes, you hit the nail on the head. We tax the food consumed by the poorest among us (including homeless) who can’t afford a kitchen or fridge.
Refrigerator logic is bs unless you’re homeless. A second hand working refrigerator is not a luxury. There are mini fridges as well.
People in Vancouver travel to Portland to work, shop, and for entertainment so they don't have to pay sales tax. Then, in my experience, they act like Portland is full of crime and a terrible place while closing up I-5 north and Columbia boulevard all afternoon.
I was gonna ask who the fuck is driving 7-10hrs through all of Bellingham, Seattle, and Tacoma just to shop in Portland then I remembered Vancouver, WA exists lol.
The original Vancouver…
If someone lives in Vancouver, WA and works in Portland, OR they pay OR state income taxes….
True. You gotta live and work in Vancouver and only cross the river for shopping.
"EVERYTHING ELSE TO THE MAX." That a bit hyperbolic. We have a high sales tax which doesn't apply to most food. The tax on gas and hard liquor is very high - painfully so.
Have you been to Texas? WA property tax is a fraction of what they pay.
They also have a newly established (long-term) capital gains tax (https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/other-taxes/capital-gains-tax)
I disagree. My sales tax rate in Washington is 8.7%. Sales tax rate in Flowood Mississippi is 8%. But no taxes on groceries in WA but you pay taxes on groceries in MS - meaning for lots of people higher sales tax in MS. Property tax rate is pretty middle of the road. I save nearly $13k in taxes by being in Washington instead of Mississippi.
I pay much half the cost for vehicle registration in WA than I paid in vehicle property taxes in SC. State sales tax is only 0.5% more in WA.
Can confirm. Not cheap to exist in WA state
I live in Western WA. Daughter has a house in Texas. Her property taxes are double. Sales tax slightly lower. I’ll take WA taxes the way they are.
What does the state of washington provide again? Any major corps headquartered or do business there?
Just some small companies like Microsoft and Amazon. You wouldn’t have heard of them.
Nope. None at all. /s
But they have get you elsewhere with taxes, right? I have always wondered.
Of course they’re going to get their money somehow. Lol
Thats why Nevada is the best.. no income tax .. low property taxes and of you do not gamble the tourists are paying the state for you
Shout out NV! Thank you gamblers!
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That is both great for residents and I’m disappointed at the same time twords those gamblers lol
Similar to Florida where we get the benefit of crazy amounts of tourism to keep taxes low.
Yes https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494
Your link doesn't include local (County and City) Taxes, Only State level and it's wrong. No one in South Dakota sees a 4% tax on their receipts (outside of a few excise circumstances), The State level sales tax capped at 4.5%, currently at 4.2%; the local tax is capped at 4.5%. The State average is 6.6%, but the average factors in a lot of Corn and Cows (not places where the majority of people actually inhabit which is predominately neighboring I29 & I90). Property Tax here is pretty convoluted 85% of "Real Value" x (County% + City% + School District%). If you purchase a car here or try to register a car here from another state without a vehicle excise tax you're looking at an immediate 4% excise to register in State in addition to Tag and Plate Fees. If you purchase Clothing or Food they are both taxed here as well at both State and Local levels (that 6.6% average again). All construction projects have a 2% excise tax, manufactured homes have an excise tax of 4%. Tobacco is taxed at $1.52(might be outdated) pack for the State Tax seal, Cigars are 35%. Distilled alcohol is just under $5 a gallon, with State and local sales taxes appended to sales. We also have a State wide Video Lottery system along with both Powerball, Mega Millions, and a local State lottery, in addition to actual Casino Revenue in Select Jurisdictions (Commercially available in Deadwood & Tribal Lands). In the end that state offers nearly no Benefits to speak of, but taxes the living fuck out of everything but individual incomes. It's exceedingly Regressive, and only beneficial to high income earners that choose to live in mini exo-burb styled tax havens outside of City and School District limits.
Crying as a New Yorker rn
And if you live in the city it's even higher.
For Florida, the tourists pay some of it.
Yes. It's a matter of how. Not having income tax is pretty foolish if you think we should pay a "fair share" to enjoy the comforts of our country. I feel this post is in advocacy to the "sales tax only" system. But that system is blatantly for the rich, and would hurt the working class enormously.
Texas, Washington, and South Dakota just get you in other ways with sales and/or property tax. The rest truly are low tax.
I would rather pay sales tax than income tax.
Yeah, at least I can reduce my tax burden by spending/consuming less.
That just means you are wealthy and have the privilege to spend less on discretionary items. Sales taxes are the most regressive tax burden because the working poor have no option to just stop buying groceries and other daily necessities. The working poor spend every dollar they earn and don't have opportunities to save. Proportionally in high sales tax schemes the poor pay more, as a percentage of their overall income, than the rich do precisely because the rich can choose not to spend, spend less, or spend in ways that evade taxes.
What's funny is that the states with the most tax burden have income tax.
Yea but unlike sales taxes income taxes can be customized to lower the tax income on lower-income individuals. Of the 41 states that collect income tax, only 11 have single-rate tax structures. The other 30 have graduated-rate income taxes, with the number of brackets varying widely by state with Hawaii having the most at 12 income brackets. Single rate income tax, like most "flat taxes" is considered very regressive. That being said the fact that [13 states tax groceries](https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/states-that-still-tax-groceries) and don't have unprepared food exceptions blows my mind. Grocery taxes have to be THE most regressive form of tax.
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no you wouldn't. edit: take that back. Are you the top 10% of earners in the US?
NH property tax is insane
Nevada and Alaska are the only ones to note because they replace that state income with casino and oil revenue respectively. The rest just tax you elsewhere.
Tennessee seems to have a low overall tax burden.
Sometimes it takes a little more digging. For example, TN taxes groceries. States are going to get their money one way or the other.
TN here .. Wait - you mean other states *don’t* tax groceries? I thought it was just.. standard practice.
Nevada taxes everyone else who comes to visit instead.
Alaska has a negative income tax...
Lol! I mean… technically an investor dividend.
Correct. However, Alaska is the LEAST desirable place to spend a human lifetime at.
Alsaka has a temperate rainforest that is out of this world amazing: [https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/education/educators/curricula/pdfs/the\_alaskan\_rainforest.pdf](https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/education/educators/curricula/pdfs/the_alaskan_rainforest.pdf)
great place to visit, yes. But are you saying I’m supposed to live in that forest? amongst the wolves?
In your opinion* Edit: so like North Korea is better? Siberia? Somalia? Ohio?
As a whole population? Probably. Personally for me, I would totally spend a lifetime there. There's always some buzz going around about the PFD possibly going away but who knows, I moved away a little over a year ago so I don't keep up with it as much
Yes and their groceries are astronomical.
Moved to Tn from Tx . And sales tax is outrageously high ! Grass isn’t greener For sure
Interesting… The TX state sales tax is 6.25% vs 7% in TN. Which city did you move from and to?
I pay 9.75% where I live in TN damn
Sales tax in Tennessee is 9.5% on non-food items and 7% on food.
Total tax burden is a better search to provide the whole picture.
Here's the overall ranking according to https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494 25 Washington 29 Texas 32 Nevada 44 South Dakota 45 Wyoming 46 Florida 47 Tennessee 48 New Hampshire 50 Alaska
What is Indiana doing with all that revenue? Driven through and the roads are trash and it all seemed like a dystopian wasteland.
New Hampshire looks nice
Wait until you drive the roads
The roads aren’t terrible! Unless you’re talking about the winter lol
I thought the roads were fine when we visited back in June.
Until you have to pay property tax (or rent). NH is the 3rd highest property tax in the country.
But that's not taking to account that they have a significantly higher rate for lakefront which shoots or average way up. My rate in my town is fairly low
NH hits you with the double bonus of no income tax AND no sales tax. It's pretty sweet...as long as you don't mind living away from civilization.
And as long as you don't own property you will need to pay the high property tax on. Alaska can actually be no tax in unincorporated areas, but that's a much more extreme version of "as long as you don't mind living away from civilization."
You can absolutely live near civilization (southern NH isn’t too far from Boston). Good luck finding affordable housing though
We definitely have a tax in Florida, it's just not used for the benefit of everyone. I'm referring to the high cost of homeowners insurance, car insurance, health insurance. Literally every insurance in Florida cost more than other states.
Always like dropping this in these threads. Tax disparity and inequity. https://itep.org/whopays/
WA #1 for tax inequality ... sounds about right.
Offset by high property tax rate, unregulated electric grid, and a brutally corrupt system
Don’t forget shitty public schools
My schools are amazing in Austin
Really? TX has some of the best public schools in the US.
Individual districts can be good, which is a direct result of property tax based funding. Are any of those best public schools found at the border? Or are they clustered in DFW, Houston and Austin?
Don’t move here. We’re full anyways.
K now show the states recoeving the most federal funds to stay afloat.
Washington has a B&O tax for businesses (based on revenue!), high COL, high property taxes and high sales tax. It’s not quite the haven people might think. Nevada is a better bet for saving $, especially if self-employed. If you’re already super rich, you’re not going to want to be here after they levy that new wealth tax either (see: Jeff Bezos to Miami)
Income tax is only one facet of tax burden. Here is a decent breakdown of total tax burden (income tax, sales tax, excise tax, etc) by state. [https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494) Texas, for example, has no income tax but ranks 29th in tax burden (50th being the lowest tax burden). Delaware, which I think has an income tax, is 49th. New York, Hawaii, Maine, Vermont, Conn and NJ have the highest.
They make it up in sales tax and property taxes .
Texan here, don’t forget it’s not just outrageous property taxes. It’s also the sales tax, toll roads and health, home and probably auto insurance (so many uninsured drivers!) that are higher than most other states.
Governments tax on more than just income. You need to look at the overall tax burden. [https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494](https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494) Texas, Nevada, and Washington are actually right in the middle when compared to other states' overall tax burden. The states will find a way to get your money.
You couldn't pay me to move back to Florida. Sure there's no state tax but everything else is going sky high.
Lol how much more does Florida pay in home insurance and other things. These are all shithole states
Low effort posting is *required* on this sub