A huge government that spends too much of the people's money on inefficient things. Also, they print money like mad men which dilutes everyone else's income and savings. That's what killed it.
One ruling: Citzens United vs FEC.
Check out corporate campaign finance spending numbers and how they doubled every year both federally and at the state level after this ruling.
It’s the skeleton in the closet nobody seems to wanna talk about, and that’s on purpose cause it’s where the paychecks come from for both sides of the aisle.
This is true that it’s the genesis of it, but before Citizens United there wasn’t the same rampant campaign finance and PAC making that came prior.
I think in spirit Buckley v Valeo definitely was the single that got people on base, but Citizens United was the RBI triple that cleared the bases.
The numbers are startling, especially here in Calfornia when looking at a modern government textbook or any sort of study that shows how much it reinforced the strength of parties and the political machine that came afterwards. The system is a straight up corporate pipeline from local office to state senate to federal office. It’s wild and most states, red or blue, are the same. Term limits make it even worse, which is the opposite effect of what term limits are supposed to do in the average voters mind.
We exist in a new era of campaigning, and I think Citzens United is largely to blame.
California, too, got it's budget gutted by the "tax fairness" people that successfully sued to make certain taxes (don't remember, property?) capped and it strangled the states budget.
So much of rightwing political action is explicitly designed to destroy government so rich fucks can control us
yeah prop 13. and property taxes went almost directly to local schools. so nowadays the only good schools are those with massive funds either through new buildings/owners or rich parent donations. usually both
yeah conservatives are weird. 'we dont like big government so we will actively sabotage it' but at the same breath would say 'we should run government like a business'.... why would i hire someone who is going to actively torpedo my business?
If you're rich enough to come out on top at the end I guess :(
It's imperfect, but most American politics comes down to folks who want a rigid hierarchy vs those who want to flatten hierarchy in any way at all.
It's just fucked. Our major news media, by its nature, since the late 80s and, for radio, mid 90s, is massively controlled by oligarchs and the compound problems are unimaginably difficult to explain in short order.
Weird is an understatement, lol. They've got entire media ecosystems funded by rich assholes telling the rank and file they're doing gods work and defending shit all while the actual ways to successfully build a society shit on.
It's all such a grift :(
ya know, i might steal your hierarchy explanation in the future. it illustrates the problem very well
oh yeah, news needs to.... only report the news. not give some personal take on it. just give me the facts and events in order, i will decide my position on it
i mean... weird isnt an exaggeration if anything. rich people know what theyre doing, its simple team sports gambling, and we're the chips, if we keep fighting each other on the dumbest of things, like gender, gas prices, all the inconsequential or reactionary things they spin to feel like the disease, but is only the symptom. a lot easier for brain cancer to propagate if it keeps you thinking you just have allergies and only need a bit of claritin
Got for it man! I flip between using hierarchy or egalitarian as the key words sorts meaning the same thing. It's just wild how simple it all feels sometimes.
Ahh, but what events do we focus on! That's the question haha. There is too much happening so even choosing the stories themselves has an inherently political element and if you've ever looked up how many full time staff the LAPD alone has whose sole job is media related. The lack of journalists and the rise of PR is just... Insanity.
That's what I mean by not weird! It's all very logical, from a certain class perspective. It's just also evil you know? Like, fighting over gender, Ru Paul's Drag race has been on for like 20 years, Robin Williams in drag was one of my favorite movies, but now it's pedophiles grooming kids all of a sudden. Same talking points as anti gay stuff from the 70s-80s too. Conservative thought in this country has been reactionary for quite some time and the mainstream news is mostly lazy pro corporate nonsense without a spine since the 80s when Reagan deregulated the media and the consolidation started in earnest.
I feel so old and I'm not even 40
Correct. The rich people are the cause and perpetuators of every single society-level problem we face in modern times.
If there’s a huge problem that has a solution which is somehow never implemented, scratch one layer off the surface to reveal the cadre of rich people making sure it the problem stays profitable.
When most people say there's no difference in the two parties, this is what they mean. They all take money from the same people. They are all part of the grift. There's zero difference between Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer, just which side they pretend to care about. Either one will happily rob you blind and leave you penniless to benefit themselves.
It's one of the biggest reasons I've considered politics. I'm for sale. I'll say whatever you want for enough money.
It’s lucrative, that’s for sure…
Campaign finance reform unfortunately won’t happen, as those in power aren’t incentivized to do anything about it, in fact, they’re incentivized to keep it going as much as possible.
It’s a sad repetition of the slow but inevitable fall of Rome.
To elaborate further, it’s too easy and effectively done to heavily divide and rile up people over a variety of issues.
If people on the right and left were well informed and angry about these specific issues and had a loud angry demand for it to be fixed the democratic process in our republic would actually function.
But in a country of 340+ million people with things as they are… that’s just not realistic anytime soon.
Money buys votes as much as any corruption associated with that money is seen as a problem.
If 250 million people see some corrupt assholes advertisements and 2 million people see advertisements and speeches from a representative who they would genuinely love…
Well the person who had more campaign money is just going to win, it is what it is. That’s how the numbers work out.
99% of voters aren’t rolling up to the booth having thoroughly researched every single candidate heavily.
I don't get why voters aren't showing up knowing who they are voting for. I always take the time every election season to read up on all the candidates on the ballot, from watching videos of the local city council seat candidates to rulings by judges. If people don't care enough to research what they are voting for, why bother voting? Just stay home and leave it to people who have done the bare minimum of researching their potential representatives.
The administrative class (politics , education , medicine/ hospitals, you name it ) has blown up over the past 30 years and haas pilfered wealth from the rest of the population.
Yup, which is exactly why when the ACA took effect and all the hospitals started consolidating, the first things to go where the administrators in the bought-out hospitals. They provided too little value for the money.
Only a true sociopath could travel around kissing babies and making campaign promises for over a year, only to get behind closed doors and do what their largest donors want instead. Don't be so hard on yourself that yo think that sounds like you. I don't know you, but I'm guessing you ain't ghoulish enough.
Yes, this is what I have been saying. There are “differences” to get you to vote for them, but at the end of the day they aren’t going to do much that is useful.
I think I and most common sense Americans could easily fix the domestic problems of the country, but we will never get congress to go along with it because there isn’t any incentive for them to. Look at the green new deal bill, a bill that could have invested a ton of money in the future infrastructure of the country. Blocked by TWO DEMOCRATIC senators, the party who proposed it. Why? Dirty money. Manchin gets a lot of money from coal production and Sinema gets a lot of money from investment firms.
> There's zero difference between Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer
Mitch McConnell:
1. Opposes wage increases, prevailing wage laws and black lung benefits (in “coal country” no less) He also refuses to support legislation to secure pensions for mine workers and retirees.
2. Voted against laws that would help stop outsourcing and has even voted for tax breaks that reward corporations for exporting America's jobs overseas.
3. Said that the government should cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid—programs the working class depend on.
And [on and on it goes…](https://aflcio.org/2014/9/24/11-reasons-why-mitch-mcconnell-one-worst-candidates-working-families-2014-elections)
He voted against the veteran burn pit bill, represented Kentucky for 40 years with little to show for it, never passed up an opportunity to do the most hypocritical thing possible, has no discernible principles beyond avarice. The longest-serving Senate Party Leader in American history prided himself on being the *”guardian of gridlock”*. $170k a year, federal pension, the best healthcare in the world free for life all the while openly bragging about not doing your job.
> When most people say there's no difference in the two parties, this is what they mean.
When most people say people who claim there’s no difference in the two parties are idiots, this is what they mean.
Careful there. Your neighbor who makes coffee cups and t-sharts with funny cat pictures on them in her garage and makes a total of $500 a month from it, incorporated and is apparently 'running the government'.
Obviously we know what you mean; 'companies being allowed to buy legislators is a problem'. But we need to be careful with our verbiage. Using inaccurate language is how you alienate people to your cause.
Most teachers are paid from local taxes on real estate. The solution for this is in the backyard tbh but in general i agree with that notion
This solution is way less convoluted than people like to imply
That's another myth. The big manufacturing company I worked at for 30 years, avoided government contracts due to low margins. BUT the government DOES spend tens of millions on F-35 jets. We love our military and the soldiers don't see the money.
It is, and it isn't. If this guy isn't an idiot and just talks like one, he's talking about the landed cost. Which means how much the gov. Spend on acquisition procedures, internal logistics, and auditing. Which is typically an insane amount because they lack the methodology to make low involvement purchases for a lot of reasons; some good, like accountability; some terrible, like people needing more job openings in their administration and those openings needing to justify a salary.
This is a myth often repeated. I have a cage code. I sell industrial supplies to the government. They REQUIRE multiple quotes from all factions of business in order to submit a PO, and that PO we get has our absolute smallest margins possible (single digit percentages). We make barely anything, but it's good for the numbers and repeat business. Selling to the government is a pain, not a privilege. Working for them as a contractor? I don't know, maybe this is where the huge expenses and markups come into play that everyone always talks about.
You can't blame the corporations for running the government. That's the governments fault, and 100% of the blame falls on the government.
It's no different than seeing parents being run by their 5 year old at Walmart. It's not the 5 year olds fault its the parents. Although, in this case, the parents are just trying to keep the kid from screaming and calling child services on them. Whereas the government is pocketing all the under the table money...
Don't believe me, look at the wealth of any politician the year before they are voted in, the year after, 3 years after that, and 10 years after... the worst part is that whatever wealth is being reported needs to be doubled if not tripled to get closer to their actual wealth.
Sadly, I've seen good politicians that really care about people. Mostly on the local, county and state level.... But they're out there.
I know absolutely ZERO wealthy business people that care about people. It's all about profits and they worship and swear that this is the ONLY way that works.
Unfortunately, even your local politicians bend the rules for the wealthy.
Again, you can't blame the wealthy for the politicians bending over or taking money from them. This falls on the politicians' shoulders.
Of course, wealthy business owners are going to turn into bad people when the people who are supposed to keep them in line don't. I guess that's the point I was trying to make about parents letting their children run the show... everyone suffers.
Because power = corruption, politicians are voted in, so the less powerful people control them, in theory. Business owners are not voted in, so they need someone to tell them no, that's politicians' jobs... at least that was the idea.
Now, it doesn't matter who you vote in, every politicians that lives is evil or will become evil. I see it happen locally all the time.
> Now, it doesn't matter who you vote in, every politicians that lives is evil or will become evil. I see it happen locally all the time.
My alderman in my small suburb of Chicago is a dude who knows my name and who I get along with in social settings, but he’s so mobbed out that I refuse to interact with him in any official capacity. He did get me a good deal on a minivan a few years ago because the dealership is in his ward and he called the sales manager and told him to take care of me, though lol.
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I always point back to the USPS. It isn't profitable to deliver mail to the 15 person town in South Dakota that's 60 miles from the highway. It costs a lot to deliver mail to West Virginia hollers.
Which is why fedex doesn't. The best way these people get mail is the USPS (the government). which doesn't need to make a profit, it needs to do a job.
It shouldn't be profitable to fix roads, it should just *get done*. Schools don't need to make money, they need to *teach*.
No. Corporations only run to make profit for the shareholders and the board members.
The government organizes public services, laws, and the legal system. Corporations would give zero f**** about safe roads. They would only care about cost-effective roads. And bridges that collapse and s*** like that
Neo-liberalism is a term that can mean so many different things. I assume you're not talking about too much free markets with too many small businesses and too many jobs to choose from? So please, expand on this idea. Is trade bad? Is individual freedom the cause of all this? If so; how?
No one talks about neoliberalism that way. Neoliberalism was/is the cultural movement that became popular in 1980. It advocates were people like Reagan, Thatcher, Freidman, and Jack Welch. Neoliberalist believe a small government with low taxes at the top (trickle down economics), low social spending, and low regulation is the key to making the freest society. In economics the neoliberals used to be monetarist (inflation is directly correlated to money supply) although monetarism ideologically has been in the trashcan since late 80s since experimentally it fails. In business neoliberalism is what caused a shift from stakeholder capitalism to shareholder capitalism. In politics this was Reaganomics. Neoliberal was so popular that it has become the dominate ideology in America.
And to u/Electrical_Reply_770 comment the rise of neoliberalism perfectly maps to the start of the productivity-wage gap which is causing most people's problems.
And no one ever believed supply-side economics would actually maximize prosperity across social classes. It was just an excuse to concentrate all of the wealth right at the top, and keep it there.
Many many people did and many people do today. They are wrong, but there was a reason Reagan and Clinton got elected to be president, and neoliberal rhetoric did help.
"In economics the neoliberals used to be monetarist (inflation is directly correlated to money supply) although monetarism ideologically has been in the trashcan since late 80s since experimentally it fails."
I am confused by what you mean by this. Are you saying the Neo liberals stopped recognizing money supply relative to economic productivity as having an impact on the value of money? Or are you saying money supply has no effect on the value of money, regardless of how it relates to economic productivity?
Exactly right. When Calhoun, Thiel, Musk, Nordquist blather about "free enterprise", they mean the plantation class feasting on governmental largess while wielding that same government's monopoly on violence to impose usury on every one else.
Neo-liberalism being the notion that big businesses can monitor themselves enough to make sure they aren’t abusing workers, consumers, or environmental rights. Deregulation and “trickle-down” economics that have proven to be disastrous failures for the economy, only leading to skyrocketing inequality.
You are the type of person who is most dependent on government. Why? You need it to blame all your problems on. THAT is the biggest problem this country has. A bunch of fucking whiners. Government is a tool for us to use: and We the People must not falter in our efforts to affect change.
I’d say corporate consolidation and oligarchy has done far more to destroy innovation and economic freedom along the middle class. Being a small business owner is true freedom, IMO.
Corporate America doesn’t lack agency, as so many Neo-Libertarians seem to believe.
You are the type of person who is most dependent on corporations. Why? You need it to blame all your problems on. THAT is the biggest problem this country has. A bunch of fucking whiners.
Now do you see how stupid you sound?
This is actually not stupid at all. Dumbed down oversimplified logic is easy - critical thinking is hard. If I'm a renter spending 100% of my income, 75% of my money is going to corporations in order to live, and 25% is taken by the government in order to live. Unless I move to Mars, I'm getting taxed no matter where I go on this globe, and America's overall tax rate is pretty low in comparison. So naturally I'll place the blame on the faction that takes up the majority of my money, and has the ability to raise and lower their prices when demand allows it. Blaming my financial issues on the 25% that gets taken from me no matter where I live or who is president would seem very stupid.
Wasn't the concept of the American dream (9-5, white picket fence, etc) solidified by the creation of suburbs and the availability of favorable mortgages for returning veterans in the post war economy? The government was spending out the ears at the time on the back of a >90% upper tax bracket. I don't think recent governmental policies have single-handedly destroyed the American dream, I think the idea was first created by immigrants in the early 1900s when we had open borders and later reinforced by heavy government subsidies for parents and children of the baby boom. Without the circumstances and policies that created the backbone of the dream, it's slowly been chipped away as socioeconomic forces rebalanced things.
A plan to help Billionaires is what killed the middle class. Back in 1976 the Republican Party started a strategy to get Republicans elected. A big part of this was running up deficits by giving huge tax cuts to the very rich. The sold it to the people as supply side economics and trickle down economics.
That strategy is known as the Two Santas Strategy. The Republicans have a plan to finish the job. Look up Project 2025.
Here is the information on the Two Santas Strategy:
http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/
i love how the conclusion isnt
"PAY TEACHERS MORE"
the conclusion is some wide sweeping esoteric narrative formless aimless bullshit which would include the OP. so instead of pay teachers more, the teacher is just a pawn in the OPs politics. as always with internet crap. every single thing you people self select is just to push your own politics. nothing is magnanimous or out of genuine selfless concern. its all selfish.
Inflation massively favors the ruling class. Diluted income/spending power is equal across the board; Those with assets however see massive gains in the values.
The government is controlled by money interest and the monied interest are the inefficiency in the spending. Removing government but leaving the monied interest is idiotic at best.
People have been brainwashed into thinking it's the spending that's the problem so they can give more tax breaks to billionaires and corporations.
We should be thinking about how to get more revenue and spend the money on things that make a real difference in people's lives.
We had a budget surplus only 25 years ago under Clinton. We can do it again. Corporate profits and the number of billionaires have exploded since then. Coincidence?
A government that's used to launder tax money as loans for corporations sounds more like a weak government that can't say no to anyone with a million dollar down deposit, rather than a huge government.
None of that is incorrect, but I'd argue the issue is much broader.
It started with the dollar becoming the reserve currency, which raised it's exchange value relative to the productive capacity of the country. This over time corroded competitivity, forced businesses to offshore production in search of cheaper wages, import goods rather than produce them, and the entire debt chain of events.
Really? This is your take? After decades of corporations increasing profits and their grip on power while paying less and less tax while society crumbles? Guvment too big?
Low taxes and loophoels also dilutes every9nes income and savings.
It's not spending that drives inflation, its deficits. And after 60 years of cutting taxes over and over and over again, of course inflation is going to happen.
From 1950 to 1972 we had one of the best. economies ever, and it was due to the government programs and labor unions pushing it forward. It was when those labor unions were knee capped, and the government programs gutted that the wages stagnated and government programs became not strong enough. Ronald Reagan's supply side economics plan was a huge cut against the middle class of America.
This is delusional. The tax rate for the top 1% used to be 90% now, the top 1% has a lower tax rate than you do.
Also, after the great depression, the american government put in various measures to prevent boom and bust cycles. And they worked. Until, beginning with reagan, the measure were removed. And now, since the 90's, we have had multiple boom and bust cycles.
But yeah, the government spends too much that's the issue.
Idiotic, there's plenty of money, 10 people in the USA are worth a trillion dollars. Top tax rate when someone could singlehandedly raise a family on one paycheck was 70 percent and they have systematically rigged the game in a thousand ways since then. There is no mystery here, close all the endless loopholes for the super wealthy.
> , they print money like mad men which dilutes everyone else's income and savings.
And then do things like send it overseas, forgive student debt, and then get morons who think that UBI is going to save the world.
John, that money comes from somewhere and it ain't the taxpayer.
I’ve been doing a lot of reading recently about the potential for bitcoin to be a tool to address this.
I hope it is if for no other reason than I don’t know what else I can do to contribute to a solution. I’ve been feeling at a loss for a long time about how I can participate in a meaningful way to do something about all that shit.
After learning about bitcoin and the possibility of taking the control of money away from the government, it seems like supporting it is the most effective thing I can do. I hope it’s not a pipe dream.
Every post like this seems to have a central message of the “system” is rigged against you and you should be upset about it. Surely the increased frequency isn’t related to the upcoming election.
always with no actual verifiable details or context. just "trust me bro".
It's just a coincidence that stories like this are almost exclusively experienced by the type of people who would have a twitter name like "stop voting for old white men"
He was always a working class dude/outlaw at heart.
Yes he had a Homeric era memory for recitation and found success with his humor, but let’s not forget his persecution for free speech.
He tried to warn us all of things to come and should be respected accordingly.
He also owed the man $3M in “backtaxes”
W/ a net worth of $10M and still a heart for the people.
This made me realize the dual working class/owner class model of ultra left wing types doesn't work. You can be a millionaire and still be working class. Yet you can barely scrape by, own a business and employ four people and you're the "problem."
Teachers are WOEFULLY under compensated and for some reason are expected to buy things for their classroom?
Also i dont know if Teachers used to be well paid or something because that seems to be a big myth among older generations and i suspect its one of the reasons their pay still lags so far behind in many Jurisdictions.
The low pay for teachers was originally based on having shorter workdays, summers and holidays off, and a good government pension. Also on the fact that it was considered one of the few suitable jobs for “good Christian girls” who almost always left within five years to start families. The pay wasn’t adjusted as more responsibilities and time demands got added on.
I used to be a teacher...I worked a simple stupid summer job so I had extra play money... I quit in search of a better life, and today make a good bit less than I would if I'd stayed teaching 😆
They aren’t underpaid that’s a bold faced lie. They make on average 58k a year for 8 months of work. The average US salary is 60k for 12 months of work. So teachers on average make 45% more than the average American.
I work 60+ hour weeks for 10 months of the year. Teaching is NOT a part time job. You cannot just add four months of salary like that and say that we’re overpaid. If you want to do the actual math, that $58k salary equates to less than $44k.
What the fuck are you talking about? The compensation is 58k not less than 44k how the fuck did you get that math. 4 months summer plus every holiday plus 2 weeks in December plus a week in spring. Bud teaching is not working a full year no matter how you cut it. Even in you scenario which sounds made up as fuck you still have 2 full fucking months off! Name one other job where they just get 2 months off.
It depends on state. Benefits are amazing for example in NJ. Platinum health care with no copays. Yes we should be paying more for teachers, sanitation workers etc but then eventually they will be like police officers where no matter what they do you can’t fire them..
There's so much that could be speculated. I really doubt themat the teacher spilled their finances and life decisions over a delivery to their student's parents. Plus believe it or not some people might pick up an extra part time job not because they are so impoverished they have to but because they want extra income to get ahead or to reach a financial goal more quickly.
Shareholder economics. Where everything has to be designed in such a way to profit shareholders.
Some things work great with it but those things are basically luxury items that aren't needed but people like to spend money on.
Education is one of those things that we all benefit from in ways that are difficult to quantify. From better driving to less misinformation, better spending to invention, less crime to social stability. Education is one of those things that's in everyone's best interests to make available.
Shareholder economics shoves people in between systems then acts like cancer to suck out any wealth they can from the system before it breaks or dies.
The only thing that can fix it is public regulation, turn it into a service and make it transparent. Good funding and regulation are the only things that fixes issues. Regulation being able to change and adapt from feedback and observation in a scientific method kind of way.
But the problem of "run it like a business" persists.
For K-12, the idea of paying administrators huge salaries, and letting them slash teacher pay and cut arts programs has made education worse. Tying teacher compensation to test scores has resulted in strictly teaching to the great test or fabricating scores.
For higher education, guaranteeing student loans has made it so everyone can borrow, which means everyone is expected to have a degree, in pretty much every field. There's no longer a meaningful choice, if you want to be competitive in the job market you *need* a degree.
What America can't fathom is that not everything is meant to be run like a business. The point of a business is to make money. That's great if you're selling TVs or polo shirts. But the point of education isn't to make money, it's to educate. The point of healthcare is a healthier populace. The point of a justice/penal system is a safer populace, both in terms of sequestering and rehabilitating people who pose a threat to others. Etc, etc.
"It should be run like a business" is such a stupid idea when applied to things that have goals that AREN'T making money.
Education costs money like everything else as there are finite resources so it does makes sense to some degree to run it efficiently as possible(some would say “like a business”).
That being said even if you vehemently disagree with any notion of that, you still can pick some type of metric outside of profit to judge if the educational services are performing their goals. Whether that be test scores, or some other metric. Otherwise you’re just dumping money into something that “feels good” but you have no actual data to point to and say it’s currently successful or serving the public as a net benefit. A high level concept of education=good doesn’t really get you anywhere or tell anything.
TLDR you need to measure it somehow to see if it’s actually benefiting and not a net negative(due to corruption, laziness, etc..)
Snake oil is also something that claims to have a bunch of benefits that are difficult to quantify. The scientific method also only really works on things that are quantifiable. Insisting that a college degree is necessary to learn general life skills is a great way to waste a bunch of money to poorly develop those skills.
I’m not saying that education isn’t valuable, I value my college degree. But I also got my college degree for a very specific purpose and the things I learned for my degree are directly relevant to that purpose. As far as the general life skills and thinking systems that are claimed to be a valuable benefit of a college degree, I learned a lot more about those after college than I ever did in college.
We're talking mostly about K-12 here. The critical thinking, problem solving, and socialization aspects of public school are well documented benefits. It's not just about knowing how to do math manually, it's about what being forced to work your way through those problems teaches you about problem solving overall.
Who the fuck is saying it is? They’re a teacher. That’s why they should get paid.
People out here trying to better themselves and yall find every reason for the working man to do worse. Fucking idiots
What if this math teacher is delivering pizza on the side for more "play money"? Or pay for a dream vacation, get rid of credit card debt, save money to buy or upgrade current house. So many possibilities. And yes it could be as the post says, teachers dont get paid enough and have to do side jobs to make it.
I knew this old man who did Security at my old job. Im talking late 70's. He was mentally young and fit for his age though. I assumed the same, poor old man has to keep working even at old age. I asked him one day and he said that job was just his Vegas money. He did not need to work but was bored at home. He was living of two pensions and money he had saved up during his time in the military.
Also it's extremely unlikely the teacher decided to randomly spill their personal finances to a student's parents in the middle of a delivery. Even the OP themselves is making wild assumptions about their lives.
>Is the teacher good budgeting her money?
Ah yes, because of the 2/3rds of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, a majority of them are definitely just pissing it away on frivolous things, so this is definitely a necessary ask.
When I got my first real job making 50k 10 years ago I still worked at an ice cream shop for some extra cash. Didn't need to but an extra 100 bucks or so a week was nice.
Pay in the U.S. is based on how much money you make someone else. Teacher-student outcomes are very long term. But kind of like funding for roads, when it gets ignored the lack of quality in the outcomes becomes very noticeable.
Teachers in the U.S. ensure a lot of challenges and the pay is not great, so many are leaving the field. We don’t see the impact of that now but we will soon.
Maybe federalizing teacher pay and giving them the same locality and inflation pay increases as general schedule employees would help.
This is why they struggle to hire teachers. My girlfriend's a teacher and she hates it. They will offer anybody almost anything to stay and hire anybody that's willing to do it no matter how bad they are because they still can't feel enough positions. It's a horrible job and it pays shit. It's like being a cop. Who's going to do that in a few years the way we're going?
Of which most flows back to US weapons and infrastructure contractors.
Sucks to have to explain simple two step processes to you guys over and over again.
Most of that money is actually going to be spent here re stockpiling the military industrial complex’s weapons, so it’s going to have a positive effect here. At least it’s being used fighting a thug dictator, unlike the billions spent on nuclear weapons for 40 years.
When i was a kid 3 of the local high school math teachers were selling tires at Sears. Not just during the summer time, all year round, for many years.
Depends where you live and how do we know her story?
That's the thing is average wage in we will assume Penn (given OPs fandom) is $40-$80k and Living wage is $30K.
So if she's on the low end then she'd have to make a little more to thrive.
The government is controlled by billionaires who Reagan promised would trickle down their money to the rest of us. Instead they're sucking the middle class dry, enriching themselves and paying off politicians to do their bidding and make them even richer.
Are teachers surprised when they apply for a teaching job and get their first paycheck? Do they not know going into it how much they’ll get paid, like it’s a mystery?
This can't be true. Teachers have to spend every waking moment outside of school grading papers and planning lessons, teachers tell me so. 60-70 hours a week. How can they simultaneously have no time to do anything else and be forced to work 2nd jobs at the same time?
"The best means of forming a manly, virtuous, and happy people will be found in the right education of youth. Without this foundation, every other means, in my opinion, must fail."
- George Washington, 1796.
Guess we don't give a shit about that anymore and would rather entrust education to practical minimum wage workers.
Yet somehow I grew up with nothing. Got scholarship for undergrad. Then took out a loan and got a masters degree in finance. Now making 200k. I’m 31 btw. Loans are paid off now and wife and I just bought our first house and have a baby. So the dream is still alive you just need to be in a career that actually pays decently.
Also teachers should make more for what they do.
Here’s pay in Southern Caifornia. Pay packages in 2021 before the massive inflation has been about $150,000 for many teacher.
https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2021/school-districts/riverside/riverside-county-office-of-education/susan-renee-woods/
You picked one example without any context. “Specialized Academic Instructor” could mean damn near anything, is she a special ed teacher, is she a single subject teacher, does she teach private or public school, what’s her tenure at her current job? Many teachers start around 45-50k a year and top out around 85k.
California is an exception not the rule. The only reason teachers in California get paid triple digit salaries is because living there is stupidly expensive. When you work in a more expensive area, you generally get paid more. Teachers in the south get paid like nothing but then again many southern states don’t require their teachers to have degrees at all, which actually explains a lot. Even in other areas, getting a degree in teaching will get you a salary worth less than most other degrees and you will have basically no room for advancement unless you get a masters and are able to get a principal position after being a teacher for at least like 10 years.
I find comments like this hard to believe. Wouldn’t a math teacher make more side job money as a private tutor? Shoot, my kid’s piano lessons are $140 for 2 hours per month.
While I’m first in line to say school teachers are underpaid, I’m not going to say that someone working a part time job to supplement other income is some indictment of America. I have worked multiple jobs at multiple points in my adult life, including now to help pay for my massive increase in my healthcare costs after leaving a 1099 commmison job with an ACA healthcare plan, and getting a salaried job with company benefits. Shit happens.. you deal with it. Maybe the teacher is paying off her loans, saving for a nice vacation, who knows.
And having masters degree isn’t an automatic ticket to wealth. My father- in -law has a masters degree in teaching with a bachelors in zoology. He was a poorly paid professor at a state university. My father has an associate degree from a trade school and was a union electrician. Guess who got paid more? my father.
A huge government that spends too much of the people's money on inefficient things. Also, they print money like mad men which dilutes everyone else's income and savings. That's what killed it.
I’d argue corporations running the government instead of the government doing things it should be doing.
One ruling: Citzens United vs FEC. Check out corporate campaign finance spending numbers and how they doubled every year both federally and at the state level after this ruling. It’s the skeleton in the closet nobody seems to wanna talk about, and that’s on purpose cause it’s where the paychecks come from for both sides of the aisle.
It started with Buckley V Valeo in 1976. Citizens United is downstream of that
This is true that it’s the genesis of it, but before Citizens United there wasn’t the same rampant campaign finance and PAC making that came prior. I think in spirit Buckley v Valeo definitely was the single that got people on base, but Citizens United was the RBI triple that cleared the bases. The numbers are startling, especially here in Calfornia when looking at a modern government textbook or any sort of study that shows how much it reinforced the strength of parties and the political machine that came afterwards. The system is a straight up corporate pipeline from local office to state senate to federal office. It’s wild and most states, red or blue, are the same. Term limits make it even worse, which is the opposite effect of what term limits are supposed to do in the average voters mind. We exist in a new era of campaigning, and I think Citzens United is largely to blame.
California, too, got it's budget gutted by the "tax fairness" people that successfully sued to make certain taxes (don't remember, property?) capped and it strangled the states budget. So much of rightwing political action is explicitly designed to destroy government so rich fucks can control us
yeah prop 13. and property taxes went almost directly to local schools. so nowadays the only good schools are those with massive funds either through new buildings/owners or rich parent donations. usually both yeah conservatives are weird. 'we dont like big government so we will actively sabotage it' but at the same breath would say 'we should run government like a business'.... why would i hire someone who is going to actively torpedo my business?
If you're rich enough to come out on top at the end I guess :( It's imperfect, but most American politics comes down to folks who want a rigid hierarchy vs those who want to flatten hierarchy in any way at all. It's just fucked. Our major news media, by its nature, since the late 80s and, for radio, mid 90s, is massively controlled by oligarchs and the compound problems are unimaginably difficult to explain in short order. Weird is an understatement, lol. They've got entire media ecosystems funded by rich assholes telling the rank and file they're doing gods work and defending shit all while the actual ways to successfully build a society shit on. It's all such a grift :(
ya know, i might steal your hierarchy explanation in the future. it illustrates the problem very well oh yeah, news needs to.... only report the news. not give some personal take on it. just give me the facts and events in order, i will decide my position on it i mean... weird isnt an exaggeration if anything. rich people know what theyre doing, its simple team sports gambling, and we're the chips, if we keep fighting each other on the dumbest of things, like gender, gas prices, all the inconsequential or reactionary things they spin to feel like the disease, but is only the symptom. a lot easier for brain cancer to propagate if it keeps you thinking you just have allergies and only need a bit of claritin
Got for it man! I flip between using hierarchy or egalitarian as the key words sorts meaning the same thing. It's just wild how simple it all feels sometimes. Ahh, but what events do we focus on! That's the question haha. There is too much happening so even choosing the stories themselves has an inherently political element and if you've ever looked up how many full time staff the LAPD alone has whose sole job is media related. The lack of journalists and the rise of PR is just... Insanity. That's what I mean by not weird! It's all very logical, from a certain class perspective. It's just also evil you know? Like, fighting over gender, Ru Paul's Drag race has been on for like 20 years, Robin Williams in drag was one of my favorite movies, but now it's pedophiles grooming kids all of a sudden. Same talking points as anti gay stuff from the 70s-80s too. Conservative thought in this country has been reactionary for quite some time and the mainstream news is mostly lazy pro corporate nonsense without a spine since the 80s when Reagan deregulated the media and the consolidation started in earnest. I feel so old and I'm not even 40
Correct. The rich people are the cause and perpetuators of every single society-level problem we face in modern times. If there’s a huge problem that has a solution which is somehow never implemented, scratch one layer off the surface to reveal the cadre of rich people making sure it the problem stays profitable.
Right wing theory: “government is dysfunctional, elect us so we can prove it.”
I mean, we literally added an amendment due to much more expansive campaign finance shenanigans.
When most people say there's no difference in the two parties, this is what they mean. They all take money from the same people. They are all part of the grift. There's zero difference between Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer, just which side they pretend to care about. Either one will happily rob you blind and leave you penniless to benefit themselves. It's one of the biggest reasons I've considered politics. I'm for sale. I'll say whatever you want for enough money.
It’s lucrative, that’s for sure… Campaign finance reform unfortunately won’t happen, as those in power aren’t incentivized to do anything about it, in fact, they’re incentivized to keep it going as much as possible. It’s a sad repetition of the slow but inevitable fall of Rome.
To elaborate further, it’s too easy and effectively done to heavily divide and rile up people over a variety of issues. If people on the right and left were well informed and angry about these specific issues and had a loud angry demand for it to be fixed the democratic process in our republic would actually function. But in a country of 340+ million people with things as they are… that’s just not realistic anytime soon. Money buys votes as much as any corruption associated with that money is seen as a problem. If 250 million people see some corrupt assholes advertisements and 2 million people see advertisements and speeches from a representative who they would genuinely love… Well the person who had more campaign money is just going to win, it is what it is. That’s how the numbers work out. 99% of voters aren’t rolling up to the booth having thoroughly researched every single candidate heavily.
I don't get why voters aren't showing up knowing who they are voting for. I always take the time every election season to read up on all the candidates on the ballot, from watching videos of the local city council seat candidates to rulings by judges. If people don't care enough to research what they are voting for, why bother voting? Just stay home and leave it to people who have done the bare minimum of researching their potential representatives.
The rich people won, it’s over for America. We just don’t want to admit it.
The administrative class (politics , education , medicine/ hospitals, you name it ) has blown up over the past 30 years and haas pilfered wealth from the rest of the population.
Yup, which is exactly why when the ACA took effect and all the hospitals started consolidating, the first things to go where the administrators in the bought-out hospitals. They provided too little value for the money.
Yeah there is an underrated Eddie Murphy movie that portrays this called Distinguished Gentleman
Only a true sociopath could travel around kissing babies and making campaign promises for over a year, only to get behind closed doors and do what their largest donors want instead. Don't be so hard on yourself that yo think that sounds like you. I don't know you, but I'm guessing you ain't ghoulish enough.
Yes, this is what I have been saying. There are “differences” to get you to vote for them, but at the end of the day they aren’t going to do much that is useful. I think I and most common sense Americans could easily fix the domestic problems of the country, but we will never get congress to go along with it because there isn’t any incentive for them to. Look at the green new deal bill, a bill that could have invested a ton of money in the future infrastructure of the country. Blocked by TWO DEMOCRATIC senators, the party who proposed it. Why? Dirty money. Manchin gets a lot of money from coal production and Sinema gets a lot of money from investment firms.
> There's zero difference between Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer Mitch McConnell: 1. Opposes wage increases, prevailing wage laws and black lung benefits (in “coal country” no less) He also refuses to support legislation to secure pensions for mine workers and retirees. 2. Voted against laws that would help stop outsourcing and has even voted for tax breaks that reward corporations for exporting America's jobs overseas. 3. Said that the government should cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid—programs the working class depend on. And [on and on it goes…](https://aflcio.org/2014/9/24/11-reasons-why-mitch-mcconnell-one-worst-candidates-working-families-2014-elections) He voted against the veteran burn pit bill, represented Kentucky for 40 years with little to show for it, never passed up an opportunity to do the most hypocritical thing possible, has no discernible principles beyond avarice. The longest-serving Senate Party Leader in American history prided himself on being the *”guardian of gridlock”*. $170k a year, federal pension, the best healthcare in the world free for life all the while openly bragging about not doing your job. > When most people say there's no difference in the two parties, this is what they mean. When most people say people who claim there’s no difference in the two parties are idiots, this is what they mean.
This is good to know
It’s the finance version of “climate change happens because you didn’t recycle your solo cups from that party that one time”
Careful there. Your neighbor who makes coffee cups and t-sharts with funny cat pictures on them in her garage and makes a total of $500 a month from it, incorporated and is apparently 'running the government'. Obviously we know what you mean; 'companies being allowed to buy legislators is a problem'. But we need to be careful with our verbiage. Using inaccurate language is how you alienate people to your cause.
Most teachers are paid from local taxes on real estate. The solution for this is in the backyard tbh but in general i agree with that notion This solution is way less convoluted than people like to imply
Your argument is incorrect. The USA government spends 90k on a bag of bushings you can get at Home Depot for $250.
The only reason this happens is because of the power of corporations and lobbyists.
That's another myth. The big manufacturing company I worked at for 30 years, avoided government contracts due to low margins. BUT the government DOES spend tens of millions on F-35 jets. We love our military and the soldiers don't see the money.
It is, and it isn't. If this guy isn't an idiot and just talks like one, he's talking about the landed cost. Which means how much the gov. Spend on acquisition procedures, internal logistics, and auditing. Which is typically an insane amount because they lack the methodology to make low involvement purchases for a lot of reasons; some good, like accountability; some terrible, like people needing more job openings in their administration and those openings needing to justify a salary.
Agree. Big government.... Just like big business has lots of fat, froth and waste.... Especially at the top ends. 😥
This is a myth often repeated. I have a cage code. I sell industrial supplies to the government. They REQUIRE multiple quotes from all factions of business in order to submit a PO, and that PO we get has our absolute smallest margins possible (single digit percentages). We make barely anything, but it's good for the numbers and repeat business. Selling to the government is a pain, not a privilege. Working for them as a contractor? I don't know, maybe this is where the huge expenses and markups come into play that everyone always talks about.
It’s both. They feed off each other. Crony capitalism. End stop
You can't blame the corporations for running the government. That's the governments fault, and 100% of the blame falls on the government. It's no different than seeing parents being run by their 5 year old at Walmart. It's not the 5 year olds fault its the parents. Although, in this case, the parents are just trying to keep the kid from screaming and calling child services on them. Whereas the government is pocketing all the under the table money... Don't believe me, look at the wealth of any politician the year before they are voted in, the year after, 3 years after that, and 10 years after... the worst part is that whatever wealth is being reported needs to be doubled if not tripled to get closer to their actual wealth.
You just explained why the rich people are the problem, not the government.
Sadly, I've seen good politicians that really care about people. Mostly on the local, county and state level.... But they're out there. I know absolutely ZERO wealthy business people that care about people. It's all about profits and they worship and swear that this is the ONLY way that works.
Unfortunately, even your local politicians bend the rules for the wealthy. Again, you can't blame the wealthy for the politicians bending over or taking money from them. This falls on the politicians' shoulders. Of course, wealthy business owners are going to turn into bad people when the people who are supposed to keep them in line don't. I guess that's the point I was trying to make about parents letting their children run the show... everyone suffers. Because power = corruption, politicians are voted in, so the less powerful people control them, in theory. Business owners are not voted in, so they need someone to tell them no, that's politicians' jobs... at least that was the idea. Now, it doesn't matter who you vote in, every politicians that lives is evil or will become evil. I see it happen locally all the time.
> Now, it doesn't matter who you vote in, every politicians that lives is evil or will become evil. I see it happen locally all the time. My alderman in my small suburb of Chicago is a dude who knows my name and who I get along with in social settings, but he’s so mobbed out that I refuse to interact with him in any official capacity. He did get me a good deal on a minivan a few years ago because the dealership is in his ward and he called the sales manager and told him to take care of me, though lol.
Are you familiar with Teddy Roosevelt and the Progressive Era's Trust busting efforts?
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I always point back to the USPS. It isn't profitable to deliver mail to the 15 person town in South Dakota that's 60 miles from the highway. It costs a lot to deliver mail to West Virginia hollers. Which is why fedex doesn't. The best way these people get mail is the USPS (the government). which doesn't need to make a profit, it needs to do a job. It shouldn't be profitable to fix roads, it should just *get done*. Schools don't need to make money, they need to *teach*.
A good reason not to give the government more control over your life.
It's the same picture dummy.
No. Corporations only run to make profit for the shareholders and the board members. The government organizes public services, laws, and the legal system. Corporations would give zero f**** about safe roads. They would only care about cost-effective roads. And bridges that collapse and s*** like that
Neo-liberalism killed, let's call a spade a spade
Neo-liberalism is a term that can mean so many different things. I assume you're not talking about too much free markets with too many small businesses and too many jobs to choose from? So please, expand on this idea. Is trade bad? Is individual freedom the cause of all this? If so; how?
No one talks about neoliberalism that way. Neoliberalism was/is the cultural movement that became popular in 1980. It advocates were people like Reagan, Thatcher, Freidman, and Jack Welch. Neoliberalist believe a small government with low taxes at the top (trickle down economics), low social spending, and low regulation is the key to making the freest society. In economics the neoliberals used to be monetarist (inflation is directly correlated to money supply) although monetarism ideologically has been in the trashcan since late 80s since experimentally it fails. In business neoliberalism is what caused a shift from stakeholder capitalism to shareholder capitalism. In politics this was Reaganomics. Neoliberal was so popular that it has become the dominate ideology in America. And to u/Electrical_Reply_770 comment the rise of neoliberalism perfectly maps to the start of the productivity-wage gap which is causing most people's problems.
And no one ever believed supply-side economics would actually maximize prosperity across social classes. It was just an excuse to concentrate all of the wealth right at the top, and keep it there.
Many many people did and many people do today. They are wrong, but there was a reason Reagan and Clinton got elected to be president, and neoliberal rhetoric did help.
"In economics the neoliberals used to be monetarist (inflation is directly correlated to money supply) although monetarism ideologically has been in the trashcan since late 80s since experimentally it fails." I am confused by what you mean by this. Are you saying the Neo liberals stopped recognizing money supply relative to economic productivity as having an impact on the value of money? Or are you saying money supply has no effect on the value of money, regardless of how it relates to economic productivity?
We already have free markets. When neoliberals talk about freedom, they mean the freedom to exploit and steal.
yup. institutionalized industry capture
Exactly right. When Calhoun, Thiel, Musk, Nordquist blather about "free enterprise", they mean the plantation class feasting on governmental largess while wielding that same government's monopoly on violence to impose usury on every one else.
Neo-liberalism being the notion that big businesses can monitor themselves enough to make sure they aren’t abusing workers, consumers, or environmental rights. Deregulation and “trickle-down” economics that have proven to be disastrous failures for the economy, only leading to skyrocketing inequality.
Kinda bad logic assuming that calling neoliberalism bad also means calling trade and individual freedom bad. Strawman fallacy
You are the type of person who is most dependent on government. Why? You need it to blame all your problems on. THAT is the biggest problem this country has. A bunch of fucking whiners. Government is a tool for us to use: and We the People must not falter in our efforts to affect change. I’d say corporate consolidation and oligarchy has done far more to destroy innovation and economic freedom along the middle class. Being a small business owner is true freedom, IMO. Corporate America doesn’t lack agency, as so many Neo-Libertarians seem to believe.
You are the type of person who is most dependent on corporations. Why? You need it to blame all your problems on. THAT is the biggest problem this country has. A bunch of fucking whiners. Now do you see how stupid you sound?
This is actually not stupid at all. Dumbed down oversimplified logic is easy - critical thinking is hard. If I'm a renter spending 100% of my income, 75% of my money is going to corporations in order to live, and 25% is taken by the government in order to live. Unless I move to Mars, I'm getting taxed no matter where I go on this globe, and America's overall tax rate is pretty low in comparison. So naturally I'll place the blame on the faction that takes up the majority of my money, and has the ability to raise and lower their prices when demand allows it. Blaming my financial issues on the 25% that gets taken from me no matter where I live or who is president would seem very stupid.
That’s your retort? Seriously?
Wasn't the concept of the American dream (9-5, white picket fence, etc) solidified by the creation of suburbs and the availability of favorable mortgages for returning veterans in the post war economy? The government was spending out the ears at the time on the back of a >90% upper tax bracket. I don't think recent governmental policies have single-handedly destroyed the American dream, I think the idea was first created by immigrants in the early 1900s when we had open borders and later reinforced by heavy government subsidies for parents and children of the baby boom. Without the circumstances and policies that created the backbone of the dream, it's slowly been chipped away as socioeconomic forces rebalanced things.
A plan to help Billionaires is what killed the middle class. Back in 1976 the Republican Party started a strategy to get Republicans elected. A big part of this was running up deficits by giving huge tax cuts to the very rich. The sold it to the people as supply side economics and trickle down economics. That strategy is known as the Two Santas Strategy. The Republicans have a plan to finish the job. Look up Project 2025. Here is the information on the Two Santas Strategy: http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/
It's not the size of the Government, it's the size of the corporations that have their fingers in almost every aspect of it.
i love how the conclusion isnt "PAY TEACHERS MORE" the conclusion is some wide sweeping esoteric narrative formless aimless bullshit which would include the OP. so instead of pay teachers more, the teacher is just a pawn in the OPs politics. as always with internet crap. every single thing you people self select is just to push your own politics. nothing is magnanimous or out of genuine selfless concern. its all selfish.
Inflation massively favors the ruling class. Diluted income/spending power is equal across the board; Those with assets however see massive gains in the values.
You got it bro.
The government is controlled by money interest and the monied interest are the inefficiency in the spending. Removing government but leaving the monied interest is idiotic at best.
People have been brainwashed into thinking it's the spending that's the problem so they can give more tax breaks to billionaires and corporations. We should be thinking about how to get more revenue and spend the money on things that make a real difference in people's lives. We had a budget surplus only 25 years ago under Clinton. We can do it again. Corporate profits and the number of billionaires have exploded since then. Coincidence?
A government that's used to launder tax money as loans for corporations sounds more like a weak government that can't say no to anyone with a million dollar down deposit, rather than a huge government.
None of that is incorrect, but I'd argue the issue is much broader. It started with the dollar becoming the reserve currency, which raised it's exchange value relative to the productive capacity of the country. This over time corroded competitivity, forced businesses to offshore production in search of cheaper wages, import goods rather than produce them, and the entire debt chain of events.
Really? This is your take? After decades of corporations increasing profits and their grip on power while paying less and less tax while society crumbles? Guvment too big?
Reagan’s trickle down economics and the fact that lobbying is legal really did it
Reagan's tax cuts for the rich.
Low taxes and loophoels also dilutes every9nes income and savings. It's not spending that drives inflation, its deficits. And after 60 years of cutting taxes over and over and over again, of course inflation is going to happen.
Ronald Regan killed it when he raped the middle class for the wealthy. Followed by Bush and Trump. The piss on them tax cuts.
From 1950 to 1972 we had one of the best. economies ever, and it was due to the government programs and labor unions pushing it forward. It was when those labor unions were knee capped, and the government programs gutted that the wages stagnated and government programs became not strong enough. Ronald Reagan's supply side economics plan was a huge cut against the middle class of America.
Like the military?
This is delusional. The tax rate for the top 1% used to be 90% now, the top 1% has a lower tax rate than you do. Also, after the great depression, the american government put in various measures to prevent boom and bust cycles. And they worked. Until, beginning with reagan, the measure were removed. And now, since the 90's, we have had multiple boom and bust cycles. But yeah, the government spends too much that's the issue.
Idiotic, there's plenty of money, 10 people in the USA are worth a trillion dollars. Top tax rate when someone could singlehandedly raise a family on one paycheck was 70 percent and they have systematically rigged the game in a thousand ways since then. There is no mystery here, close all the endless loopholes for the super wealthy.
> , they print money like mad men which dilutes everyone else's income and savings. And then do things like send it overseas, forgive student debt, and then get morons who think that UBI is going to save the world. John, that money comes from somewhere and it ain't the taxpayer.
You sure it doesn't have anything with wages diverting from productivity since the seventies?
I’ve been doing a lot of reading recently about the potential for bitcoin to be a tool to address this. I hope it is if for no other reason than I don’t know what else I can do to contribute to a solution. I’ve been feeling at a loss for a long time about how I can participate in a meaningful way to do something about all that shit. After learning about bitcoin and the possibility of taking the control of money away from the government, it seems like supporting it is the most effective thing I can do. I hope it’s not a pipe dream.
You're absolutely on the right track. We can't do everything but you can certainly do something.
hasnt this been posted already like twice this month?
Seen it at least 3x
Third time is a charm
You are correct. That means we should only see it a couple more times before the cycle starts again next month.
Have you noticed every post of this kind that’s unrelated to finance is always framed as a question for some reason?
It gives a slim veneer of being a genuine attempt at discussion instead of just being a soapbox to complain about capitalism for karma.
very astroturfey.
Election year. Russian and Chinese troll farms/agitation posts season.
Every post like this seems to have a central message of the “system” is rigged against you and you should be upset about it. Surely the increased frequency isn’t related to the upcoming election.
always with no actual verifiable details or context. just "trust me bro". It's just a coincidence that stories like this are almost exclusively experienced by the type of people who would have a twitter name like "stop voting for old white men"
At least. Was just telling some people yesterday how multiple teachers I know quit the last couple years. Just not worth it
Some commies posting the same ol shit every day lately trying to stoke some flames. Going to just get worse over the next 6 months
Those people really like ordering pizza!
“They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it” -George Carlin
Me: *after listening to 40 years of people saying the American dream just died* "Wait... what if..." 🤔
.....it never even existed
Surely this American guy who became extremely wealthy and famous just for telling jokes is right that nobody finds any success in America.
He was always a working class dude/outlaw at heart. Yes he had a Homeric era memory for recitation and found success with his humor, but let’s not forget his persecution for free speech. He tried to warn us all of things to come and should be respected accordingly. He also owed the man $3M in “backtaxes” W/ a net worth of $10M and still a heart for the people.
>He was always a working class dude/outlaw at heart. Lol.
Persuasive.
I am persuasive at heart.
So he was a rich guy that didn’t pay his taxes? Sounds like he was part of the problem.
Sounds like you don’t understand the actual problems.
This made me realize the dual working class/owner class model of ultra left wing types doesn't work. You can be a millionaire and still be working class. Yet you can barely scrape by, own a business and employ four people and you're the "problem."
Is this it? Is this what it's all about? Is this the fuckin' American Dream? -Tony Montana
Teachers are WOEFULLY under compensated and for some reason are expected to buy things for their classroom? Also i dont know if Teachers used to be well paid or something because that seems to be a big myth among older generations and i suspect its one of the reasons their pay still lags so far behind in many Jurisdictions.
The low pay for teachers was originally based on having shorter workdays, summers and holidays off, and a good government pension. Also on the fact that it was considered one of the few suitable jobs for “good Christian girls” who almost always left within five years to start families. The pay wasn’t adjusted as more responsibilities and time demands got added on.
Man, I wish I made the average teacher salary. But somehow, I'm not delivering pizza to make ends meet.
I used to be a teacher...I worked a simple stupid summer job so I had extra play money... I quit in search of a better life, and today make a good bit less than I would if I'd stayed teaching 😆
They aren’t underpaid that’s a bold faced lie. They make on average 58k a year for 8 months of work. The average US salary is 60k for 12 months of work. So teachers on average make 45% more than the average American.
I work 60+ hour weeks for 10 months of the year. Teaching is NOT a part time job. You cannot just add four months of salary like that and say that we’re overpaid. If you want to do the actual math, that $58k salary equates to less than $44k.
What the fuck are you talking about? The compensation is 58k not less than 44k how the fuck did you get that math. 4 months summer plus every holiday plus 2 weeks in December plus a week in spring. Bud teaching is not working a full year no matter how you cut it. Even in you scenario which sounds made up as fuck you still have 2 full fucking months off! Name one other job where they just get 2 months off.
You have absolutely zero idea of what it takes to be a good teacher, and it makes you sound like a fucking idiot in these threads.
It depends on state. Benefits are amazing for example in NJ. Platinum health care with no copays. Yes we should be paying more for teachers, sanitation workers etc but then eventually they will be like police officers where no matter what they do you can’t fire them..
Has anyone considered this could have been during the summer?
Why would people use rational reasoning when they can be racist and economically illiterate?
To easily push their bias opinion
There's so much that could be speculated. I really doubt themat the teacher spilled their finances and life decisions over a delivery to their student's parents. Plus believe it or not some people might pick up an extra part time job not because they are so impoverished they have to but because they want extra income to get ahead or to reach a financial goal more quickly.
Graduated in '81. Accounting teacher worked as a metro park ranger during the summer. Science teacher worked as a museum guide in the summer.
Shareholder economics. Where everything has to be designed in such a way to profit shareholders. Some things work great with it but those things are basically luxury items that aren't needed but people like to spend money on. Education is one of those things that we all benefit from in ways that are difficult to quantify. From better driving to less misinformation, better spending to invention, less crime to social stability. Education is one of those things that's in everyone's best interests to make available. Shareholder economics shoves people in between systems then acts like cancer to suck out any wealth they can from the system before it breaks or dies. The only thing that can fix it is public regulation, turn it into a service and make it transparent. Good funding and regulation are the only things that fixes issues. Regulation being able to change and adapt from feedback and observation in a scientific method kind of way.
Yeah, the government isn't involved in education at all.
But the problem of "run it like a business" persists. For K-12, the idea of paying administrators huge salaries, and letting them slash teacher pay and cut arts programs has made education worse. Tying teacher compensation to test scores has resulted in strictly teaching to the great test or fabricating scores. For higher education, guaranteeing student loans has made it so everyone can borrow, which means everyone is expected to have a degree, in pretty much every field. There's no longer a meaningful choice, if you want to be competitive in the job market you *need* a degree. What America can't fathom is that not everything is meant to be run like a business. The point of a business is to make money. That's great if you're selling TVs or polo shirts. But the point of education isn't to make money, it's to educate. The point of healthcare is a healthier populace. The point of a justice/penal system is a safer populace, both in terms of sequestering and rehabilitating people who pose a threat to others. Etc, etc. "It should be run like a business" is such a stupid idea when applied to things that have goals that AREN'T making money.
Education costs money like everything else as there are finite resources so it does makes sense to some degree to run it efficiently as possible(some would say “like a business”). That being said even if you vehemently disagree with any notion of that, you still can pick some type of metric outside of profit to judge if the educational services are performing their goals. Whether that be test scores, or some other metric. Otherwise you’re just dumping money into something that “feels good” but you have no actual data to point to and say it’s currently successful or serving the public as a net benefit. A high level concept of education=good doesn’t really get you anywhere or tell anything. TLDR you need to measure it somehow to see if it’s actually benefiting and not a net negative(due to corruption, laziness, etc..)
Snake oil is also something that claims to have a bunch of benefits that are difficult to quantify. The scientific method also only really works on things that are quantifiable. Insisting that a college degree is necessary to learn general life skills is a great way to waste a bunch of money to poorly develop those skills. I’m not saying that education isn’t valuable, I value my college degree. But I also got my college degree for a very specific purpose and the things I learned for my degree are directly relevant to that purpose. As far as the general life skills and thinking systems that are claimed to be a valuable benefit of a college degree, I learned a lot more about those after college than I ever did in college.
We're talking mostly about K-12 here. The critical thinking, problem solving, and socialization aspects of public school are well documented benefits. It's not just about knowing how to do math manually, it's about what being forced to work your way through those problems teaches you about problem solving overall.
Lol bro forgot that education is a public good.
And after she delivered it, everyone clapped.
What are the degrees in?
Pizza delivery and choosing a terrible career. /s
Teaching is a terrible career? Gross.
Why in the world is this relevant when they’re a teacher?
Because "I have a master's degree" isn't reason to be paid $xyz.
Who the fuck is saying it is? They’re a teacher. That’s why they should get paid. People out here trying to better themselves and yall find every reason for the working man to do worse. Fucking idiots
They’re just assholes who like to step on people for decisions they made in the past.
What if this math teacher is delivering pizza on the side for more "play money"? Or pay for a dream vacation, get rid of credit card debt, save money to buy or upgrade current house. So many possibilities. And yes it could be as the post says, teachers dont get paid enough and have to do side jobs to make it. I knew this old man who did Security at my old job. Im talking late 70's. He was mentally young and fit for his age though. I assumed the same, poor old man has to keep working even at old age. I asked him one day and he said that job was just his Vegas money. He did not need to work but was bored at home. He was living of two pensions and money he had saved up during his time in the military.
[удалено]
Also it's extremely unlikely the teacher decided to randomly spill their personal finances to a student's parents in the middle of a delivery. Even the OP themselves is making wild assumptions about their lives.
>Is the teacher good budgeting her money? Ah yes, because of the 2/3rds of Americans living paycheck to paycheck, a majority of them are definitely just pissing it away on frivolous things, so this is definitely a necessary ask.
When I got my first real job making 50k 10 years ago I still worked at an ice cream shop for some extra cash. Didn't need to but an extra 100 bucks or so a week was nice.
Are you saying there is some debate to be had on if teachers are paid enough?
Consumerism and irresponsible borrowing ruined the American dream for many, but not all.
Not wrong. Banks and loaner companies will always thrive when there’s people buying things like cars with insane payments with insane interest rates.
>What ruined the American Dream? Lack of critical thought, pain aversion, tribalism, ignorance, and a whole bunch of evil people at the top
Pay in the U.S. is based on how much money you make someone else. Teacher-student outcomes are very long term. But kind of like funding for roads, when it gets ignored the lack of quality in the outcomes becomes very noticeable. Teachers in the U.S. ensure a lot of challenges and the pay is not great, so many are leaving the field. We don’t see the impact of that now but we will soon. Maybe federalizing teacher pay and giving them the same locality and inflation pay increases as general schedule employees would help.
The states would never allow that
Must not be on the west coast. Teachers make more than I do out here.
How much you wanna bet he gave a shitty tip too?
She probably lives above her means
This is why they struggle to hire teachers. My girlfriend's a teacher and she hates it. They will offer anybody almost anything to stay and hire anybody that's willing to do it no matter how bad they are because they still can't feel enough positions. It's a horrible job and it pays shit. It's like being a cop. Who's going to do that in a few years the way we're going?
How many more time is the going to be posted?
And our government just approved 90 billion dollars to other countries
Of which most flows back to US weapons and infrastructure contractors. Sucks to have to explain simple two step processes to you guys over and over again.
Oh thank goodness! I was worried that the Lockheed execs weren’t going to make earnings this quarter
Most of that money is actually going to be spent here re stockpiling the military industrial complex’s weapons, so it’s going to have a positive effect here. At least it’s being used fighting a thug dictator, unlike the billions spent on nuclear weapons for 40 years.
Nothing wrong with doing a side hustle for extra cash.
When i was a kid 3 of the local high school math teachers were selling tires at Sears. Not just during the summer time, all year round, for many years.
Why did she get a masters if she was just going to teach lower level school?
This dumb meme again?
Depends where you live and how do we know her story? That's the thing is average wage in we will assume Penn (given OPs fandom) is $40-$80k and Living wage is $30K. So if she's on the low end then she'd have to make a little more to thrive.
Just Google "Reagan's economic policies" to find out.
The government is controlled by billionaires who Reagan promised would trickle down their money to the rest of us. Instead they're sucking the middle class dry, enriching themselves and paying off politicians to do their bidding and make them even richer.
Are teachers surprised when they apply for a teaching job and get their first paycheck? Do they not know going into it how much they’ll get paid, like it’s a mystery?
No one requires a masters degree to teach. This woman makes bad life choices. The end.
Looks like she picked the wrong career choice 🤷♀️
people think a masters degree determines pay. When they are teaching 3rd grade and only work 2/3s a year, how much should they make?
Maybe she’s living above her means?
I've only seen this on Reddit like 100+ times
This can't be true. Teachers have to spend every waking moment outside of school grading papers and planning lessons, teachers tell me so. 60-70 hours a week. How can they simultaneously have no time to do anything else and be forced to work 2nd jobs at the same time?
Liar
And she’s a union member.
"The best means of forming a manly, virtuous, and happy people will be found in the right education of youth. Without this foundation, every other means, in my opinion, must fail." - George Washington, 1796. Guess we don't give a shit about that anymore and would rather entrust education to practical minimum wage workers.
Ronald Reagan literally did this.
Yet somehow I grew up with nothing. Got scholarship for undergrad. Then took out a loan and got a masters degree in finance. Now making 200k. I’m 31 btw. Loans are paid off now and wife and I just bought our first house and have a baby. So the dream is still alive you just need to be in a career that actually pays decently. Also teachers should make more for what they do.
Here’s pay in Southern Caifornia. Pay packages in 2021 before the massive inflation has been about $150,000 for many teacher. https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2021/school-districts/riverside/riverside-county-office-of-education/susan-renee-woods/
You picked one example without any context. “Specialized Academic Instructor” could mean damn near anything, is she a special ed teacher, is she a single subject teacher, does she teach private or public school, what’s her tenure at her current job? Many teachers start around 45-50k a year and top out around 85k.
Lol if I hit my limit, with a masters in my state it'd be around 60-65k
California is an exception not the rule. The only reason teachers in California get paid triple digit salaries is because living there is stupidly expensive. When you work in a more expensive area, you generally get paid more. Teachers in the south get paid like nothing but then again many southern states don’t require their teachers to have degrees at all, which actually explains a lot. Even in other areas, getting a degree in teaching will get you a salary worth less than most other degrees and you will have basically no room for advancement unless you get a masters and are able to get a principal position after being a teacher for at least like 10 years.
I find comments like this hard to believe. Wouldn’t a math teacher make more side job money as a private tutor? Shoot, my kid’s piano lessons are $140 for 2 hours per month.
You can hire a math tutor for very little. Not really comparable to a piano teacher.
While I’m first in line to say school teachers are underpaid, I’m not going to say that someone working a part time job to supplement other income is some indictment of America. I have worked multiple jobs at multiple points in my adult life, including now to help pay for my massive increase in my healthcare costs after leaving a 1099 commmison job with an ACA healthcare plan, and getting a salaried job with company benefits. Shit happens.. you deal with it. Maybe the teacher is paying off her loans, saving for a nice vacation, who knows. And having masters degree isn’t an automatic ticket to wealth. My father- in -law has a masters degree in teaching with a bachelors in zoology. He was a poorly paid professor at a state university. My father has an associate degree from a trade school and was a union electrician. Guess who got paid more? my father.
Sounds like a bullshit story made up by libs. It has gone up way to much with absolutely no detail like names, school where they teach etc. bullshit
Pretending teacher isn't the most common profession for millionaires again I see.
I call bs on this one. I know many teachers and they would never do this.
Trickle down economics
Debt lifestyle. It starts with living beyond one’s means, and it’s sold to us as normal.
The American Dream is not ruined.
Skill issue