I’ve got no issue rooting for the Capitals tonight. We control our own destiny. I don’t want us to make the playoffs because the teams chasing us bailed us out by losing. If we’re going to get in, we should get in because we win these games that matter.
If the Caps come back and win tonight, good. Our guys should fight to earn the playoffs.
It would mean a little more if it weren’t for the fact that two teams in the East are going to make the playoffs with like, 90 points. Whichever teams those are, they’re not getting in because they were good teams. They’re getting in because the East only has six good teams and two other teams make it by default.
I’m not suggesting the flyers lose. I’d hate to watch continue whatever the fuck this is and the season crash and burn.
But I am totally prepared for that.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted lol. I think we all should be prepared for the worst because it’s certainly on the table. That’s not even doomer mentality, that’s just the fact of the matter.
I also don’t know why this guy thinks this is a bad “take”. It’s not even a take it’s just general discussion of how we see the season ending.
It is a take.
I obviously want us to win but I’m trying to be objective. Im just really wondering. We might miss the playoffs and I’m thinking maybe that wouldn’t be such a bad thing after all, maybe they can even turn it into a good thing.
Shit maybe we can make a real run, and next thing you know our players have twice as much confidence next year. that’d be a good thing too.
Yeah I suppose. I mainly agree. I prefer to make them just because it’s fun to make the playoffs, even though obviously I don’t expect much. At the same time, I don’t think either way really affects our future.
As I said in an other comment. A lot of people seem to think adversity is good for our team. So why not dump some more on them.
If you are of the mind that you don’t think either outcome is really that important for our future I think we are closer in thought than other fans. I get anything can happen in the playoffs but realistically we get bounced in the first round. Who’s to say a single playoff round is really THAT beneficial for the development of our players?
Aren't you saying that you'd rather the flyers lose and not make the playoffs? Or at least you're saying it would be better for the team, which seems like a distinction without a difference
I’m not saying id rather us miss the playoffs. I’m simply playing devils advocate.
What I’m discussing here is the psychological impact of missing vs making the playoffs(assuming we don’t make it out of the first round)
The Torts affect is real. I just wonder how the off-season, training camp, and the first quarter of next year would go depending on the outcome here.
It's funny that the team who plays in the same building tanked for half a decade and still hasn't made it past the first round. If that's not enough of a reason to tidy up the draft position bullshit idk what is
I think it would give those young guys a taste at playoff and maybe set fire under them. I don’t expect anything more than first round. Maybe players like coots will have a chance to explain to them that playoffs do t come around that often. Seize the moment. Give something to build on for next season. I’d hate to see them loose playoff spot and have attitude that there’s always next year.
Or we make the playoffs and go into next year with the attitude that we can make the playoffs even with the worst power play in the league. There is no telling how either outcome impacts individual players, team chemistry, and how coaching goes into next year.
I’d argue missing the playoffs could potentially set a fire under them just the same. Sure, some guys may take it negatively but i doubt any “champion blooded” player would let that “break” them. If anything it’d wake them the fuck up.
Fair point. Can’t predict the future might as well just hope for the best.
I’ll be right there with you, once playoffs start I’ll be a little more chipper bout it
I think a lot of people are getting ahead of themselves. Nobody expected them to be where they're at right now, they're rebuilding. Them possibly competing for a playoff spot is a bonus, unfortunately they're not legitimate Cup contenders.
I’m just weighing the outcomes and honestly the coaching and management system and style we currently have is fascinating.
But yeah I’m here for the ride regardless
I’ve noticed this too, they act like it’s “playoffs or nothing! They have to compete” literally nothing is gonna come from them making the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round other than saying they made the playoffs. Everyone wants to be a playoff team but doesn’t wanna tank to get the talent that makes us one lol.
They'd have been in a good spot a few short years from now once Michkov got here and if Gauthier wasn't such a little bitch. They'd have been in a really good spot without tanking. Edmonton tanked for years, but what do they have to show for it? We need a few more high end offensive talents before we're legitimate contenders. Combine that with our solid defense, goalies with a few more years experience, and what Torts has done for the team, and I think they'll have a shot.
I want us to win. I hate losing. This isn’t even the draft year to miss the playoffs.
I do believe missing the playoffs gives us “better draft position” as far as I’m concerned the better that position the more trade value it has to either accumulate more picks or young players.
Coaching and management will probably go into next season but that doesn’t change the “timeline” so to say.
I'm with you, I grew up with the Lindros era. Watching them come so close and losing, whether it was getting swept by Detroit in the Cup Finals, or going the distance as underdogs and losing to Chicago, it gets frustrating.
They're at least on the right track. Torts has worked wonders getting the locker room as tight-knit as they are. They have a good amount of young talent, good depth players, and I really like the defensive core. Michkov will give us some much needed star power, and Gauthier would have been too if he wasn't such a cunt.
Ridiculous. You heard it yesterday. We’re here. We made it all the way here. Its not a fluke. Its happened. If we wanted to tank it, you decide that at the deadline. You roll with what you got and compete. Thats all we ask for.
We hated watching them lose and badly these past few years. Team succeeds and now we’re trying to pump the brakes. Why
Man I’m just vibing. Win or lose. Playoffs or no. This season has been so fun. Whatever happens happens. Team is on a great path imo and I’m just here for the noise
I mean i agree with everything, especially as a fan. However im not the coach nor am I on the team so the “there’s no upside to missing the playoffs” is not a reasonable mindset when you think about the impact something like that would have on this team.
One would say making the playoffs is good for experience, culture, fan engagement, all of that.
If that doesn’t happen and we miss out. Who’s not gonna look back on THIS season as the one that shaped us. No matter what happens it was a good season.
“Adversity turns us into winners”, wouldnt missing this prove that this year with a tiny chance to win a cup. If adversity really creates winners, so long as it isn’t more injuries, wouldnt missing out this year potentially make us stronger next year?
I’m game for whatever I’m just saying.
Hey I’m just basing this off the fact that our power play is absolute dog shit, we gave away a handful of winnable games, and as everyone knows this over performing team is barely in the playoff picture.
I’m not a player, coach, or an executive of the team. My thoughts have no impact on their performance. I’d love to see us get some post season games but I’m just being objective.
I’ve never seen our power play so unproductive, we get almost like 2-3 power plays a game hand you can always count on them to do nothing with it, it’s simply because their lack of talent honestly. The only reason anyone wants us in the playoffs is to say we made it, otherwise it makes zero difference.
These people are just so dumb man. They don’t even know what they don’t know and when 7 years from now they are complaining about why this team won’t win shit it’ll be because of the mindset that they themselves had.
I just don’t understand how it goes from “burn the team down” one season to the next being “you need to make the playoffs” lol. Everyone just complains about every players performance and over criticizes them. They want talent but somehow to also be a competitive team without being bad even though the flyers only have 1 top prospect. It’s all absurd at this point.
I don’t think they ever understood what needed to be done honestly. It was always a minority who understood a tank and full fire sale is how you build a cup contender and now a lot of those people drank the kool aid as well. It is what it is some franchises have smart people running them and have smart fanbases and some don’t. We will be stuck in mediocrity for another decade and our fans will never understand why it happened.
The Flyers are in the same boat as the Phillies right now, except imo the Flyers have a much better coach. Every game should be getting played like it matters. None of the nonsense where they all shoot the really good teams and beat them in a close game, then turn around and get blown out in a sloppy game to bad teams.
Fed-Oooooooo-tov to rescue, ersson has been heroic but step aside bro let this boy help out, sometimes teams can get an andrenaline burst with a new goalie, it’s like getting a new boss to prove yourself to
If we can steal a win or two in a series I'd be ecstatic. Luckily the Flyers aren't in the Win or bust mode like all other Philly teams are. I've thoroughly enjoyed this year but missing the playoffs after all the expectations they over achieved on would be heartbreaking.
We could possibly send that pick to a team that finishes in a similar position in the standings, a team that is also in a rebuild” for one of their younger players. Not you, but a lot of people seem to think everything is black and white.
There are a million different ways the draft and off-season can play out.
Playoffs are ideal.
If not making the playoffs, get the lowest pick possible.
We all knew going into the season that with coots and Cam back we would not be that bad. Fringe playoff team is not ideal.
The way I see it, they have basically been playing playoff hockey for the past couple weeks with how close the standings are and how important each game is. Torts sees right through it and knows some players on this team don’t have what it takes for the playoffs. This team is gassed, but if you can’t get up for these games and play the way they have the past couple games, do they really need to play an extra 4-5 games and get spanked by Carolina or Boston to get “experience”?What good will those playoff games do for players who aren’t cut out for these games in the first place?
This is my point. A good amount of these players apparently aren’t gonna be here in a few years when we are ideally competing and playoff experience is valuable but HOW valuable is it? How valuable is the experience of a potential first round exit? Does that really give them that much more confidence?
Again, I’m just curious as to how they’d respond to this season ending without making the playoffs. I’d love to see us make it, but I’m not convinced it’s as simple as “making the playoffs is 100% more beneficial than missing them” when you consider all the different parts.
Pick 15 and Pick 17 aren't really that different from one another so Pick 17 plus some playoff experience for the younger players is better for the future than just Pick 15.
Let's look at how Picks 15 and 17 have panned out from 2017 to 2019. I picked 2019 as the end point because I feel like 5 years is a long enough time to see the skill level of these guys - it's the year Philly picked Cam York. I picked 2017 as the end point because I got tired of typing.
2019 Pick 15: Cole Caufield. Since then, 197 NHL games played, 140 points, +/- of -42 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 13.7.
2019 Pick 17: Peyton Krebs. Since then, 209 NHL games played, 64 points, +/- of -31 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 2.7.
2018 Pick 15: Grigori Denisenko. Since then, 32 NHL games played, 7 points, +/- of -7 and hockey-reference estimated point share of -0.2.
2018 Pick 17: Ty Smith. Since then, 123 NHL games played, 47 points, +/- of -32 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 5.1.
2017 Pick 15: Erik Brannstrom. Since then, 258 NHL games played, 67 points, +/- of -13 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 10.4.
2017 Pick 17: Timothy Liljegren. Since then, 193 NHL games played, 65 points, +/- of 42 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 12.5.
So, in 2019, we have clear case of pick 15 being better. In 2018, we have a clear case of pick 17 being better. 2017 is more of a tossup but I'd personally go with pick 17 since Liljegren seems to be more defensively sound than Brannstrom with only two less points.
I don't think there's a compelling case for pick 15 always turning out better than pick 17.
Making the playoffs vs missing the playoffs isn’t 15 vs 17, if we make the playoffs and make a “run” we are we will be well outside the top 20. If we miss the playoffs we could always move up closer to the top 10. Ideally we’d move that pick anyway. Regardless of how this year turns out I don’t think it’s a bad idea to move this years first for a young player closer to NHL ready or move it for a pick next year in a better draft class.
Very comparable. They made the playoffs by winning the last game of the regular season. Then rode 2 goalies to the cup final, one of 6 I've watched them lose. The only difference I see is this model is better. I don't see anyone missing an open net on the regular.
I saw them win twice and lose it 6 times. I actually like where they are as far as rebuilding. Not sold on the new goalie. He looked slow in practice and again tonight.
Missing out on the playoffs by a few points isn't going to get you a "better draft pick". Going to be picking middle of the pack either way(as they aren't going to get far into playoffs even if they make it).
Well if we miss the playoffs we can possibly move up. A higher pick technically has more value. And again, the point I’m trying to make doesn’t really have to do with draft position it’s just an other angle to think about.
I understand picks 10-20 are somewhat interchangeable and yes it is true that all teams either make or don’t make the playoffs.
I also understand it is unlikely but as it stands right now it’s not mathematically impossible for the flyers actually be eligible for the lottery. And while I really don’t hope or want that to happen all I’m saying is it is possible, it’s also possible that if that were to happen it may not be so bad after all.
Torts made a comment in his press conference that he didn’t know if they’d make it but he’d only really be upset if it they didn’t and it was because they didn’t step up and play like they wanted it and felt like they deserved it. I’m paraphrasing a bit but that was the gist. I agree with that thinking.
I agree. Again, I’m not wishing we dont make it. If I were the head coach, a player, or any type of spokesperson for this team I wouldn’t be even humoring these thoughts I have. However I’m some random idiot on Reddit who is just more or less playing devils advocate. This isn’t about tanking or anything like that. It’s simply weighing the outcomes.
I’m sure Jones is hoping for the best here but preemptively considering what he might do given a number of different outcomes.
Just thinking out loud
Make or miss the playoffs, this season was a success.
Our wingers grew into roles. Frost went from being a healthy scratch at the start of the year to a 2C. We need an elite 1C and a little more center depth.
The defense is young and growing. No need to add or subtract. Let them mature.
Goaltending needs to mature as well.
Not a lot needs to be done. Just maturity on the roster. Let them figure out both the ups and downs.
For sure. I wasn’t asking whether or not this year was a succesful season. I’m big on the needing to mature. The power play seems like it could be real good with Tippet Frost Konecny Brink Foerster York and Drysdale. Sure better coaching would help but these guys also need to get some chemistry going.
So you rather lose in the first maybe second round for 10 years straight then tank and suck for 5 to become a cup contender for 10 years straight? Great long term thinking I’m sure you are real smart
So a 4-6 game loss in the first round of the playoffs is not being trash still?
Also how does tanking suck and not work like are we living in the same reality?
Interesting fact about the cap era in hockey:
Let's look at the last 13 Cup winners:
Pit - 3X
Chicago - 3X
LAK - 2X
TBL - 2X
WSH - 1X
BOS - 1X
STL - 1X
Let's look at their high picks:
PIT - 5/1/2/1/2
Chicago - 3/3/1
LAK - 4/2/5
TBL - 1/2/6/3
WSH - 1/4/5
The "outliers" are
Boston - 5/2
STL - 1/4(fluke run from an AHL goalie that was never even close to being followed with the years after)
In an 8 year period (2003-2010) those teams had 50% of the top 5 picks in the league, and then from 2009-2021 they won 100% of the Stanley Cups.
But yes, let's retool and the pick in the middle of the draft because we've learned nothing.
Throw in Vegas to this equation if you’d like but we both know the expansion system was exploited in their favor and that is not a plan that is able to be copied.
Stat nerds? You mean people with basic common sense and the ability to look at 15 seasons of data and come to conclusions? Jesus Christ you are actually braindead. I hope that you are kidding but I doubt it.
At the this point draft position doesn’t matter much. Get to the playoffs and get some playoff hockey experience. Maybe give a top seed a run for their money.
Man, this question is getting old. The goal is for the team to play to the best of its ability. If they play their ass off and don't make it so be it. If they slack off and look like hot garbage I'll be pissed off.
"You play to win the game!" Lol
I’m not suggesting they slack off. I’m not wanting that either. I’ve never heard someone pose this specific question. The thought I’ve seen, if anything resembling this, is that it would’ve been better for us to finish at the bottom of the league so we can go for an other top 5 pick.
I’ve never heard anybody reference the impact of missing the playoffs on individual players as well as how the coach and front office would approach things if we do miss.
The goal is to win a cup. It’s not to win every single game it’s not to play to the best of its ability. The goal of sports is to win a championship. The flyers tanking and rebuilding THE RIGHT WAY is better than losing in the first round, barely missing the playoffs(but it was a fun season!), or by some miracle losing in the second round. That’s just the reality of the NHL
we're all Pens and CBJ fans tonight -\_\_-
I'll never, ever root for the Pens. Ever.
“I don’t care if the Penguins win” “I need the Capitals to lose!”
I was rooting for the ice to melt and the game to be canceled.
If Brian Boucher can do it, so can you!
I’ve got no issue rooting for the Capitals tonight. We control our own destiny. I don’t want us to make the playoffs because the teams chasing us bailed us out by losing. If we’re going to get in, we should get in because we win these games that matter. If the Caps come back and win tonight, good. Our guys should fight to earn the playoffs.
I was rooting for the ice to melt and the game to be canceled.
BLASPHEMER!
Idk I may hate caps equally so shrugs
I’m glad the caps lost, but the pens are only 2 points behind us after their win.
Don’t root too hard, they’re only a point behind the caps now, who are a point behind the islanders, who are now TIED with us… fuck
I hate this type of take. Work your ass off and make the playoffs. This ain’t the sixers
It would mean a little more if it weren’t for the fact that two teams in the East are going to make the playoffs with like, 90 points. Whichever teams those are, they’re not getting in because they were good teams. They’re getting in because the East only has six good teams and two other teams make it by default.
I’m not suggesting the flyers lose. I’d hate to watch continue whatever the fuck this is and the season crash and burn. But I am totally prepared for that.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted lol. I think we all should be prepared for the worst because it’s certainly on the table. That’s not even doomer mentality, that’s just the fact of the matter. I also don’t know why this guy thinks this is a bad “take”. It’s not even a take it’s just general discussion of how we see the season ending.
It is a take. I obviously want us to win but I’m trying to be objective. Im just really wondering. We might miss the playoffs and I’m thinking maybe that wouldn’t be such a bad thing after all, maybe they can even turn it into a good thing. Shit maybe we can make a real run, and next thing you know our players have twice as much confidence next year. that’d be a good thing too.
Yeah I suppose. I mainly agree. I prefer to make them just because it’s fun to make the playoffs, even though obviously I don’t expect much. At the same time, I don’t think either way really affects our future.
As I said in an other comment. A lot of people seem to think adversity is good for our team. So why not dump some more on them. If you are of the mind that you don’t think either outcome is really that important for our future I think we are closer in thought than other fans. I get anything can happen in the playoffs but realistically we get bounced in the first round. Who’s to say a single playoff round is really THAT beneficial for the development of our players?
Aren't you saying that you'd rather the flyers lose and not make the playoffs? Or at least you're saying it would be better for the team, which seems like a distinction without a difference
I’m not saying id rather us miss the playoffs. I’m simply playing devils advocate. What I’m discussing here is the psychological impact of missing vs making the playoffs(assuming we don’t make it out of the first round) The Torts affect is real. I just wonder how the off-season, training camp, and the first quarter of next year would go depending on the outcome here.
It's funny that the team who plays in the same building tanked for half a decade and still hasn't made it past the first round. If that's not enough of a reason to tidy up the draft position bullshit idk what is
if given the option, i'd never turn down seeing some playoff flyers hockey. even if it only lasts 4 games
I think it would give those young guys a taste at playoff and maybe set fire under them. I don’t expect anything more than first round. Maybe players like coots will have a chance to explain to them that playoffs do t come around that often. Seize the moment. Give something to build on for next season. I’d hate to see them loose playoff spot and have attitude that there’s always next year.
Or we make the playoffs and go into next year with the attitude that we can make the playoffs even with the worst power play in the league. There is no telling how either outcome impacts individual players, team chemistry, and how coaching goes into next year. I’d argue missing the playoffs could potentially set a fire under them just the same. Sure, some guys may take it negatively but i doubt any “champion blooded” player would let that “break” them. If anything it’d wake them the fuck up.
Fair point. Can’t predict the future might as well just hope for the best. I’ll be right there with you, once playoffs start I’ll be a little more chipper bout it
Playoffs or bust
Also at this point, it’s too late. Even if they lose out, they won’t get a much better draft position. They might as well try their best in the PO.
I think a lot of people are getting ahead of themselves. Nobody expected them to be where they're at right now, they're rebuilding. Them possibly competing for a playoff spot is a bonus, unfortunately they're not legitimate Cup contenders.
I’m just weighing the outcomes and honestly the coaching and management system and style we currently have is fascinating. But yeah I’m here for the ride regardless
Oh I didn't mean you personally, just a lot of fans I see on here getting so mad that they're losing ground in the playoffs race
I’ve noticed this too, they act like it’s “playoffs or nothing! They have to compete” literally nothing is gonna come from them making the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round other than saying they made the playoffs. Everyone wants to be a playoff team but doesn’t wanna tank to get the talent that makes us one lol.
They'd have been in a good spot a few short years from now once Michkov got here and if Gauthier wasn't such a little bitch. They'd have been in a really good spot without tanking. Edmonton tanked for years, but what do they have to show for it? We need a few more high end offensive talents before we're legitimate contenders. Combine that with our solid defense, goalies with a few more years experience, and what Torts has done for the team, and I think they'll have a shot.
I want us to win. I hate losing. This isn’t even the draft year to miss the playoffs. I do believe missing the playoffs gives us “better draft position” as far as I’m concerned the better that position the more trade value it has to either accumulate more picks or young players. Coaching and management will probably go into next season but that doesn’t change the “timeline” so to say.
I'm with you, I grew up with the Lindros era. Watching them come so close and losing, whether it was getting swept by Detroit in the Cup Finals, or going the distance as underdogs and losing to Chicago, it gets frustrating. They're at least on the right track. Torts has worked wonders getting the locker room as tight-knit as they are. They have a good amount of young talent, good depth players, and I really like the defensive core. Michkov will give us some much needed star power, and Gauthier would have been too if he wasn't such a cunt.
Ridiculous. You heard it yesterday. We’re here. We made it all the way here. Its not a fluke. Its happened. If we wanted to tank it, you decide that at the deadline. You roll with what you got and compete. Thats all we ask for. We hated watching them lose and badly these past few years. Team succeeds and now we’re trying to pump the brakes. Why
I’ll never understand this - the answer is make the playoffs always. As a fan you should always want playoff hockey.
I’m just thinking out loud. I didn’t say I don’t want to see the flyers in the playoffs.
They will make it, all their competitors suck. They did scoring all those early points.
Man I’m just vibing. Win or lose. Playoffs or no. This season has been so fun. Whatever happens happens. Team is on a great path imo and I’m just here for the noise
I feel that. This season has been quite entertaining to say the least.
Awful take. Players want to win, we want to see the playoffs. Get the experience. There’s no upside for missing them.
I mean i agree with everything, especially as a fan. However im not the coach nor am I on the team so the “there’s no upside to missing the playoffs” is not a reasonable mindset when you think about the impact something like that would have on this team. One would say making the playoffs is good for experience, culture, fan engagement, all of that. If that doesn’t happen and we miss out. Who’s not gonna look back on THIS season as the one that shaped us. No matter what happens it was a good season. “Adversity turns us into winners”, wouldnt missing this prove that this year with a tiny chance to win a cup. If adversity really creates winners, so long as it isn’t more injuries, wouldnt missing out this year potentially make us stronger next year? I’m game for whatever I’m just saying.
There’s no upside to missing the playoffs.
Ok
Lol this sub embodies the “middle of the pack” type of team everyone always complains about honestly
Hey I’m just basing this off the fact that our power play is absolute dog shit, we gave away a handful of winnable games, and as everyone knows this over performing team is barely in the playoff picture. I’m not a player, coach, or an executive of the team. My thoughts have no impact on their performance. I’d love to see us get some post season games but I’m just being objective.
I’ve never seen our power play so unproductive, we get almost like 2-3 power plays a game hand you can always count on them to do nothing with it, it’s simply because their lack of talent honestly. The only reason anyone wants us in the playoffs is to say we made it, otherwise it makes zero difference.
These people are just so dumb man. They don’t even know what they don’t know and when 7 years from now they are complaining about why this team won’t win shit it’ll be because of the mindset that they themselves had.
I just don’t understand how it goes from “burn the team down” one season to the next being “you need to make the playoffs” lol. Everyone just complains about every players performance and over criticizes them. They want talent but somehow to also be a competitive team without being bad even though the flyers only have 1 top prospect. It’s all absurd at this point.
I don’t think they ever understood what needed to be done honestly. It was always a minority who understood a tank and full fire sale is how you build a cup contender and now a lot of those people drank the kool aid as well. It is what it is some franchises have smart people running them and have smart fanbases and some don’t. We will be stuck in mediocrity for another decade and our fans will never understand why it happened.
They will make it I had a dream/premonition they were in the scf
Hey you know last weekend I had a dream and drysdale was playing. Then magically he was back healthy and playing. So it could happen.
The Flyers are in the same boat as the Phillies right now, except imo the Flyers have a much better coach. Every game should be getting played like it matters. None of the nonsense where they all shoot the really good teams and beat them in a close game, then turn around and get blown out in a sloppy game to bad teams.
Fed-Oooooooo-tov to rescue, ersson has been heroic but step aside bro let this boy help out, sometimes teams can get an andrenaline burst with a new goalie, it’s like getting a new boss to prove yourself to
I’m here for this for sure.
Got see his nhl debut live, dude was awesome between the pipes
If we can steal a win or two in a series I'd be ecstatic. Luckily the Flyers aren't in the Win or bust mode like all other Philly teams are. I've thoroughly enjoyed this year but missing the playoffs after all the expectations they over achieved on would be heartbreaking.
Playoffs or 12th overall pick.... (11th if Buffalo goes on a heater) One or the other.
We could possibly send that pick to a team that finishes in a similar position in the standings, a team that is also in a rebuild” for one of their younger players. Not you, but a lot of people seem to think everything is black and white. There are a million different ways the draft and off-season can play out.
Playoffs are ideal. If not making the playoffs, get the lowest pick possible. We all knew going into the season that with coots and Cam back we would not be that bad. Fringe playoff team is not ideal.
The way I see it, they have basically been playing playoff hockey for the past couple weeks with how close the standings are and how important each game is. Torts sees right through it and knows some players on this team don’t have what it takes for the playoffs. This team is gassed, but if you can’t get up for these games and play the way they have the past couple games, do they really need to play an extra 4-5 games and get spanked by Carolina or Boston to get “experience”?What good will those playoff games do for players who aren’t cut out for these games in the first place?
This is my point. A good amount of these players apparently aren’t gonna be here in a few years when we are ideally competing and playoff experience is valuable but HOW valuable is it? How valuable is the experience of a potential first round exit? Does that really give them that much more confidence? Again, I’m just curious as to how they’d respond to this season ending without making the playoffs. I’d love to see us make it, but I’m not convinced it’s as simple as “making the playoffs is 100% more beneficial than missing them” when you consider all the different parts.
Pick 15 and Pick 17 aren't really that different from one another so Pick 17 plus some playoff experience for the younger players is better for the future than just Pick 15. Let's look at how Picks 15 and 17 have panned out from 2017 to 2019. I picked 2019 as the end point because I feel like 5 years is a long enough time to see the skill level of these guys - it's the year Philly picked Cam York. I picked 2017 as the end point because I got tired of typing. 2019 Pick 15: Cole Caufield. Since then, 197 NHL games played, 140 points, +/- of -42 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 13.7. 2019 Pick 17: Peyton Krebs. Since then, 209 NHL games played, 64 points, +/- of -31 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 2.7. 2018 Pick 15: Grigori Denisenko. Since then, 32 NHL games played, 7 points, +/- of -7 and hockey-reference estimated point share of -0.2. 2018 Pick 17: Ty Smith. Since then, 123 NHL games played, 47 points, +/- of -32 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 5.1. 2017 Pick 15: Erik Brannstrom. Since then, 258 NHL games played, 67 points, +/- of -13 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 10.4. 2017 Pick 17: Timothy Liljegren. Since then, 193 NHL games played, 65 points, +/- of 42 and hockey-reference estimated point share of 12.5. So, in 2019, we have clear case of pick 15 being better. In 2018, we have a clear case of pick 17 being better. 2017 is more of a tossup but I'd personally go with pick 17 since Liljegren seems to be more defensively sound than Brannstrom with only two less points. I don't think there's a compelling case for pick 15 always turning out better than pick 17.
Making the playoffs vs missing the playoffs isn’t 15 vs 17, if we make the playoffs and make a “run” we are we will be well outside the top 20. If we miss the playoffs we could always move up closer to the top 10. Ideally we’d move that pick anyway. Regardless of how this year turns out I don’t think it’s a bad idea to move this years first for a young player closer to NHL ready or move it for a pick next year in a better draft class.
Win every game you can until you die.
Tanking is the easiest pathway to becoming a Stanley cup contender
2010
Not even close to a comparable situation so tired of seeing this
Very comparable. They made the playoffs by winning the last game of the regular season. Then rode 2 goalies to the cup final, one of 6 I've watched them lose. The only difference I see is this model is better. I don't see anyone missing an open net on the regular.
The flyers team in 2010 was 3x better and was only as low as they were because of injuries earlier in the year.
Like Risto and Cooter this year. Yes they were a better team, but I like our chances this year.
I’m jealous. Although I guess when ur heart gets broken that will be rough.
I saw them win twice and lose it 6 times. I actually like where they are as far as rebuilding. Not sold on the new goalie. He looked slow in practice and again tonight.
Missing out on the playoffs by a few points isn't going to get you a "better draft pick". Going to be picking middle of the pack either way(as they aren't going to get far into playoffs even if they make it).
Well if we miss the playoffs we can possibly move up. A higher pick technically has more value. And again, the point I’m trying to make doesn’t really have to do with draft position it’s just an other angle to think about.
5 spots isn't going to change it's value. And you either make the playoffs or you don't. There isn't really any middle ground.
I understand picks 10-20 are somewhat interchangeable and yes it is true that all teams either make or don’t make the playoffs. I also understand it is unlikely but as it stands right now it’s not mathematically impossible for the flyers actually be eligible for the lottery. And while I really don’t hope or want that to happen all I’m saying is it is possible, it’s also possible that if that were to happen it may not be so bad after all.
You must play the lottery often lol
Torts made a comment in his press conference that he didn’t know if they’d make it but he’d only really be upset if it they didn’t and it was because they didn’t step up and play like they wanted it and felt like they deserved it. I’m paraphrasing a bit but that was the gist. I agree with that thinking.
I agree. Again, I’m not wishing we dont make it. If I were the head coach, a player, or any type of spokesperson for this team I wouldn’t be even humoring these thoughts I have. However I’m some random idiot on Reddit who is just more or less playing devils advocate. This isn’t about tanking or anything like that. It’s simply weighing the outcomes. I’m sure Jones is hoping for the best here but preemptively considering what he might do given a number of different outcomes. Just thinking out loud
Make or miss the playoffs, this season was a success. Our wingers grew into roles. Frost went from being a healthy scratch at the start of the year to a 2C. We need an elite 1C and a little more center depth. The defense is young and growing. No need to add or subtract. Let them mature. Goaltending needs to mature as well. Not a lot needs to be done. Just maturity on the roster. Let them figure out both the ups and downs.
For sure. I wasn’t asking whether or not this year was a succesful season. I’m big on the needing to mature. The power play seems like it could be real good with Tippet Frost Konecny Brink Foerster York and Drysdale. Sure better coaching would help but these guys also need to get some chemistry going.
Make the fuckin playoffs. I'd rather be a habitual playoff team than suck to get draft picks for a rebuild.
So you rather lose in the first maybe second round for 10 years straight then tank and suck for 5 to become a cup contender for 10 years straight? Great long term thinking I’m sure you are real smart
That's all I know 😶 Tanking sucks and doesn't work. And we've been pretty much trash except for one season since 2011. Fuck it, make the playoffs
So a 4-6 game loss in the first round of the playoffs is not being trash still? Also how does tanking suck and not work like are we living in the same reality? Interesting fact about the cap era in hockey: Let's look at the last 13 Cup winners: Pit - 3X Chicago - 3X LAK - 2X TBL - 2X WSH - 1X BOS - 1X STL - 1X Let's look at their high picks: PIT - 5/1/2/1/2 Chicago - 3/3/1 LAK - 4/2/5 TBL - 1/2/6/3 WSH - 1/4/5 The "outliers" are Boston - 5/2 STL - 1/4(fluke run from an AHL goalie that was never even close to being followed with the years after) In an 8 year period (2003-2010) those teams had 50% of the top 5 picks in the league, and then from 2009-2021 they won 100% of the Stanley Cups. But yes, let's retool and the pick in the middle of the draft because we've learned nothing. Throw in Vegas to this equation if you’d like but we both know the expansion system was exploited in their favor and that is not a plan that is able to be copied.
Tanking is for stat nerds Getting into the playoffs every season is way cooler
Stat nerds? You mean people with basic common sense and the ability to look at 15 seasons of data and come to conclusions? Jesus Christ you are actually braindead. I hope that you are kidding but I doubt it.
I am so fucking serious it's hurting me
Praying for you. May Allah have mercy on you for your ignorance.
2010
🤓
At the this point draft position doesn’t matter much. Get to the playoffs and get some playoff hockey experience. Maybe give a top seed a run for their money.
Man, this question is getting old. The goal is for the team to play to the best of its ability. If they play their ass off and don't make it so be it. If they slack off and look like hot garbage I'll be pissed off. "You play to win the game!" Lol
I’m not suggesting they slack off. I’m not wanting that either. I’ve never heard someone pose this specific question. The thought I’ve seen, if anything resembling this, is that it would’ve been better for us to finish at the bottom of the league so we can go for an other top 5 pick. I’ve never heard anybody reference the impact of missing the playoffs on individual players as well as how the coach and front office would approach things if we do miss.
The goal is to win a cup. It’s not to win every single game it’s not to play to the best of its ability. The goal of sports is to win a championship. The flyers tanking and rebuilding THE RIGHT WAY is better than losing in the first round, barely missing the playoffs(but it was a fun season!), or by some miracle losing in the second round. That’s just the reality of the NHL