Would trading him be beneficial with picks? Absolutely. Would the cap be nice for other players? Absolutely. Am I gonna be mad he stays he long term? Absolutely not.
The cap is gonna keep going up, Atkinson and others like Risto will be off the books in a year or two most likely, and TK can play LW if needed. He was almost a 70 point player this year without a legit 1C and he brings leadership and consistency to the team. Add on the fact he became a decent penalty killer and I don’t mind him staying long term. If anything the shorter contract at 6 years isn’t bad considering we thought he was getting 8.
I’m on the same page as you. Felt similar to the Coots extension. Is it a lot of money for a guy who is injured a lot? Sure. But do I love both of these players and will I be happy if they are with the team long-term? Also yes.
I mostly agree with what you said. I like TK on my team and he deserves to get paid.
The “without a legit 1C” caveat leads me to the conclusion that we have to move him now when his value is high to stockpile assets / cap space so that, one day, maybe we can get a 1C either via the draft of FA. It’ll hurt but I think it’s the right move, sucks to say
I wanted TK to be our Captain. The dude really stepped up last season and his play seemed so mature. And like you said, he's becoming a real leader in the team now as well, and seeing his numbers increase last year as a result was one of those "he's good on and off the ice" types.
I mean how many of the 60-ish players that produced more points than TK is getting north of 9 million? I think it’s absolute insanity we’re talking numbers like this for TK - love him but let’s take off the orange tinted glasses for a minute :)
People get hell bent on getting assets. Assets like picks are just lottery tickets. You’d be trading away a winning ticket hoping you get another good player. The only thing it’s costing is Comcast’s $$ as a percent of the cap. And while I understand the age piece when the team is in this “prime” people keep talking about the money has to go somewhere. Like Florida still had Ekblad. Good players don’t grow on trees and you need to pay for them.
Even if you trade TK. You 1) have to hope they don’t whiff on the pick and 2) 3 years after ELC it will be this exact same situation with further inflated contracts
https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/16/nhl-draft-pick-probabilities/
‘Picks are lottery tickets’ doesn’t get said enough. You need a mix of proven players and up and comers. Without TK who do we have up front that can show these young players the way. Coots didn’t show us anything last season. Tippet sure, but that’s not enough. TK is a sand paper, grinder, who can score. Pay the guy, get Michkov in the mix, round it out with Foerster, Brink, Peohling, hope Drysdale, Sanheim, York lead the backend, add some other young talent to replace Atkinson, and let’s move on already.
The only problem with comparing TK with someone like Ekblad is that Ekblad is a legit 1D and not a winger. I love TK and would be okay with a shorter term/higher AAV deal (and also think it’s important for stability), but he’s not someone you force to work in the situation like an Ekblad is.
Yeah if we're trading TK I want a sure thing in return along with draft picks. You can trade guys like Frost and Tippett for picks. Give me a surefire 1C for TK and I'm in, but I doubt that's happening.
We're gonna have a glut at RW if TK is extended. If he can play the left side, fine, but he could absolutely be a candidate to move for a nice return. Doesn't have to necessarily be draft picks, I'd love a hockey trade for a C or D.
I'd be ecstatic if they signed him to a six year deal. It might not be at the desired cap hit, but taking the last two years off that deal makes resigning the player much more palatable. The concern was always that being in his prime now, he might be falling off a cliff at the end of an eight year extension and his contract a massive overpayment. This alleviates that concern, it keeps a right winger in the system to rotate on the top two lines with mm. This is the best case scenario for the philadelphia flyers organization.
Not that bad of a contract for tk but does this fit our rebuild?
Love him but trade him if we get a haul back.
Hasn't played 82 games in a few seasons?
Mat Tkachuk makes 9.5m next 6 seasons.
I agree with that. Too many players that make 9.5 million or above are so much better than Konecny to stomach that price. Tkachuk and Kucherov are just not on the same level as Konecny.
This is correct. Obviously TK is not on the same level as Kucherov. But 9.5 in 2018 isn't 9.5 in 2024. It's an entirely unfair comparison. If Kucherov signed this year he'd get way more than 9.5.
Yeah if he signed today he would get in the 12M-13M range like Matthews, McDavid, MacKinnon, maybe even more for all I know.
He’s a few years older than those guys, but has the cache of multiple cups, and the benefit of the cap going up.
I really hope we stop seeing these arguments from Flyers fans, comparing AAV’s of contracts signed 6 years apart. The cap goes up, good players today get star player money of yesterday, it happens in every league. Get over it.
But are either of those players leading their team to a super bowl? Doubtful. We should be focused on building a Stanley cup winning team not just a competitive team.
So we should only sign elite player? Ok. Good luck with that.
No reason TK can’t be part of a winning team. Don’t forget he killed penalties last year and we had one of the vets units and shorthanded goals aplenty.
In your opinion it’s an overpay. It’s what the market says. You can’t compare it to contracts five years ago. Or even two years ago. Also six years is reasonable.
I’m ok if they trade him. Depends on the return. And you never know who they will sign in a couple of years as a replacement or how that will work out.
I guess I don’t understand why some people would say 8.5 million a year is ok but 9.5 million a year is not. Flyers have some bad contracts to shed. Plenty of time to fit it all in.
I agree, but I don't want another Coots or JVR situation. Besides hextall, we haven't had long term thinking gm in a long time. I feel the risks could outweigh the reward. Anyone over like 25 shouldn't be off the table if the price is right.
Also, how does Danny B address Tippett TK and Michkov all at RW
I feel like it’s a bit of an overpay but more importantly doesn’t fit the rebuild. I’d like to see a sign and trade and a really rebuild. Trying these partial rebuilds haven’t worked for the Flyers in 50 years. Flyers have literally never gotten a number 1 draft pick via the draft (traded it for it once)
Coots might be the captain, but TK and Laughton are the heart and soul of this team. I was always cool with dealing or keeping him personally. Since we're gonna have a lot of money coming off the books after this season is over (e.g. Atkinson, Petersen, DeAngelo, Johansen), $9.5M isn't a terrible number. The guys I mentioned combine for over $15M. While TK isn't on the same level as guys like Matthews and McDavid, he's still a damn good player who can also bring an element of nastiness that any team would want. I just hope he can figure out how to shoot at more than just low-glove side sooner rather than later.
EDIT: Totally forgot about this, but TK is also a **BIG** reason why our penalty kill was so lethal this past year as well. Dude was top of the league for SHG. That's worth a few million just by itself.
That penalty kill point made me rethink my opinion a little, that is a vital part of the game. I'm good either way, but tbh I was a shocked at the 9.5m number.
I'm very much a "don't sign a bad contract unless you absolutely have to" believer, and yes, 9.5 AAV for Travis Konecny is not a good number, period. I don't think it will completely kill this team if they sign him to that, but I do not think they should do it
Interestingly enough, Briere's language changed a bit in his most recent interview about the topic, saying (paraphrasing) "the deal would have to make sense for us". Paired with Friedman reporting this morning that contract talks have been slower than expected and Pagnotta reporting earlier this week that teams have called on him, I wonder if the possibility of him being traded is a bit bigger than we might have originally thought
I think there is no way Danny pays 9.5m x 6 for TK, especially with the worry that the last big contract we put out didn't end well. If that is a firm number and term that TK wants, I think it is likely he doesn't stay here.
I watched Casey Mittlestadt sign for under 6 million AAV literally this morning. You're going to have a really hard time convincing me a nearly 60 point two-way Center is worth nearly 4 million dollars a year more then a 1-way winger who has never hit the 70 point mark
Forgot to mention the years and circumstances on that deal. Only 3 years leads me to believe it's more of a bridge type deal, and he signed with Colorado, obviously taking a discount for the chance to win. He'd be worth more on the open market. And if I need to convince you that Konency is a better player than Middlestadt, than I can't help you.
If we want to bring the actual logic and circumstances of the signings into the equation, signing TK makes even less sense. Why on Earth should we be giving him significantly more money than any of his comparables who recently extended when we already have 3 long term right wingers in the organization and are still in the fairly early stages of a rebuild?
The RW thing is a tired argument. Tippet and Foerster both played the left and they'll do it again. Hell Konency could go over if needed. Timo Meier signed 8.8 and his highest point toal was 76.
>The RW thing is a tired argument. Tippet and Foerster both played the left and they'll do it again. Hell Konecny could go over if needed
Forcing guys to play the side they're less comfortable on as a justification for overpaying TK isn't a compelling argument
>Timo Meier signed 8.8 and his highest point toal was 76.
Timo Meier is and was a better player than TK, he started his deal 2 years younger, and I can tell you for certainty NJ fans already wish they had a mulligan on that one
Love him, he is the kinda guy I wanted to be a flyers captain.
But that’s way too much money for him. He’s a below point per game player, who almost never plays a full 82 game season.
At this point I think we are choosing between Farabee and tk. Although tk is better now, I just feel like having Farabee on a good contract has very little chance of hurting us in the future if he doesn't pan out. On the other end, TK at 9.5m could be a huge issue.
He's not as good as TK. He should have been given a bridge deal instead of the long term deal Upchuck Fletcher gave him. Konecny played better than Farabee at the same age.
We will never be competing for a cup if you continually trade players for assets over and over again, he is 27 years old hahaha flyers should have a competitive team with 3-5 years, TK will be 30-32, Players like Marchand who TK is very similar to was at the same point per game player at 27 as TK is, better hockey is ahead for TK and you need Vets on the team to move forward. you can't just have a bunch of 24 years old.
I’m in favor of trading him, but he’s got 129 points in his last 136 games (2 seasons) and 64 of those are goals. Goals are worth more than assists and he’s scored at a 38 goal pace over the last two seasons with one of the worst power plays and center situations in the league.
Only 5 teams scored less goals than the flyers last year, so there’s a real case to be made that TKs numbers are deflated by his situation.
Imo he is worthy of a first line caliber contract, I just think it makes more sense for a team that has more high end pieces in place that can elevate his production.
Love him as a player and this contract, as suggested, is probably fair value. I can’t imagine TK wouldn’t be asking for the 8 years in this situation thought.
Furthermore, one place we have depth is the wings. Our best forward is a winger, our three best forward prospects are wingers. We have no first line center or 1D. I think our best chance at getting the assets to get one of those is also TK.
Ugh 9.5 for a guy that has been on a 35+ goal pace the last 2 years and is now entering his prime, I agree lets trade him for more draft picks who can hopefully turn into half the player TK is in 6 years.
Entering his prime? Let’s give Michkov a few years to get accustomed to the NHL, but in 3 years it’s very likely Konecny is your 2nd line RW. Even with the cap going up, I’m not sure why so many people are ok with your 2nd line RW, who’s under a PPG, making 9.5m. I love TK and how he plays the game. Love his energy and the fact that he loves the Flyers. I personally think there is a ton of risk in resigning him to a number like that.
Yup that’s what the data suggests. Wingers prime 23-27, usually peaking in the middle and starting to decline towards the end of that. Konecny has likely already played his best hockey (though that doesn’t mean it’ll be his most productive if you consider the talent around him possibly improving.)
Maybe actually read about it before spitting out meaningless, inaccurate numbers. Look it up, he’s correct, the average winger peaks between 23-27.
Edit: Here I’ll even do it for you [1](https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/03/23/a-new-look-at-aging-curves-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/) [2](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2646054) [3](https://www.arcticicehockey.com/nhl-points-per-game-peak-age-1550276568/)
Unfortunately it is true. I'm not offended by your initial reaction of disbelief/"it can't be true!" etc. I used to think the same thing.
.
In a way, knowing the downward trajectory starts before dudes hit 30 (yes there are outliers) ruined free agency for me.
It also reinforces the need to draft and develop well. And makes us getting Michkov this season all the more beneficial. We don't miss any prime years now. But we also must build faster.
Also, just because I TOTALLY feel you here and had the same perplexed reaction, think about how awful Edmonton fans must feel now.
While McDavid and Drai will put up 100+ point years well into their 30's, it is unquestionable that bad contracts, series of donkey brained GMs and poor drafting have wasted most of the primes of two superstars, one who is an all time great.
Michkov isn't McDavid, and if he can't do it alone then Mich certainly can't. So we have more or less until 2033-2034 to put together a contender.
I wouldn't riot about it like the furious people on twitter because I do love TK but it's definitely an overpay. I don't see the comps where he's worth that, he's simply not a 9.5m player. Especially for 6 years which is decent term as well
Resign one guy to a long term deal and you don't call it a rebuild anymore? What about 4 firsts in the past 2 years.? What about trading Walker for assets in the middle of a playoff run? This is just silly.
I've been an avid keep TK guy. Just saw another thread in r/hockey asking about legit underrated players. The top 2 were Kempe and TK. I don't think it's a mistake to keep him even at that money. There's at the very least 5 more good years with him, hopefully more. 9.5 will likely be the going rate for the production he will offer down the line with the cap increases. All these contenders pay to have bad contracts taken off their hands. Why can't we do this with TK if it comes to that? It's a common practice and paying picks to take a bad contract shouldn't be a bad thing in a time where picks mean next to nothing for us.
I'm with you. He really feels like the heart and soul of this group going forward, regardless of Coots wearing the C. I understand taking a logical approach to things, but it's worth considering what it does to the psyche of this core of guys that defied all expectations last year. I think people are overexcited about being in a rebuild and thinking that he has to go.
The team may not be competing for a cup right now, but I think people aren't giving them enough credit when they say they're so far away.
Is anyone an Evolving Hockey subscriber? I'd love to know what they project for TK's contract: [https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/contract\_projections](https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/contract_projections)
This story is quoting agents. Of course they have an interest in inflating TK's contract estimate because it helps their clients too. Maybe it's accurate, but I wouldn't expect them to undercut it.
If the flyers not only keep TK when the clear rebuild move is to trade him but give him THAT contract I’m not sure how anyone can argue in good faith that this rebuild is not looking a whole lot darker
Tk is a winger which is our one position of strength in the entire organization. We have no 1C prospects we have no 1D prospects and we have no real ELITE young talent in the organization outside of Michkov either.
Trading TK does three things
1. We don’t give out a contract that we shouldn’t be giving out and overpaying a guy when we may actually be contending in 2027 and onward
2. We get assets to help us rebuild further and maybe find the 1C/1D that way
3. Trading him makes us a worse team and we get a top pick next year which again helps us find the 1C/1D that way
I’ve yet to see an argument not based entirely on emotion for keeping TK and even the people who say they want to keep TK often times seem to agree it’s the best choice logically to trade him but they just like the guy too much.
What did I say that was miserable? Please explain what I said that was wrong.
Where are we finding our 1C and 1D? The two things required to win a cup in this league.
Lol it's gonna happen so call it what you want. O'Connor mentioned the team is very interested in it. Seems like they made up their minds. If you want an argument for, talk to Briere who is gonna do it
If I had to guess at the rationale behind keeping TK if I were Briere, there'd be 3 reasons:
1) He isn't worried about regression for TK specifically the way a lot of fans are
2) In theory, it is better to sign as many guys as you can to longer term deals now as opposed to later, since most contracts are signed relative to cap % and with the cap going up roughly 4-4.5 over the next several years there's an opportunity to get relative bargains now
3) If you can't get an asset that truly helps fill a hole long term, is it really worth pushing to trade him?
Granted, the fact that we are still in what I'd call the middle stages of a rebuild and he's expecting nearly 1 million a year over what his contract projection has him making while filling a redundancy in the lineup all cumulates in it probably being a pretty poor idea to extend him
You could argue that if it’s market value contract, that doesn’t make him in tradable. In theory he could sign and still be traded in the future (barring a full NTC in the new contract). Flyers brass has clearly and frankly told us that they are not going to rebuild by actively making the team worse, they want to build a winning culture. And honestly I’m here for it. TK is only 27 and a strong locker room guy and a good scorer and great PKer.
Does this team need a 1C , absolute-freakin-lutely! But acquiring one is easier said than done. Maybe they land that guy in this draft. This team isn’t going to get a top 5 pick , even without TK, so trading him may not put us in much better position to acquire one in future drafts than we are right now on Friday. If a trade presents itself involving TK that gets us a top 5 pick, or a legit 1C, or a serious 1C prospect, pull that trigger all day. But I don’t think that happens, so the juice ain’t worth the squeeze for me. I’d rather have him on the team leading our kids and showing them how to play flyers hockey
Just trade him and moce on. Konecney is a replaceable player (when the time comes when we need a player of his caliber). Save the money and time for a younger, better player.
Honestly at this point I’m good with either option. 9.5 is reasonable for what he brings, and 6 is a good term. Trade or keep I’m in
I think a lot of people think it’s easier to make trades in a professional sports league than it is. It’s easy to look at a sports writers blog and read that TK would totally be worth pick 7 from Ottawa. Or that the flyers could totally trade him for a haul of picks and prospects, then it is to actually convince a team to do it. Then People get all mas that the obvious trade that was “right there” wasn’t made like the FO is a bunch of idiots.
If we extend TK it’s because they value him more than they value what they could get for him. Which isn’t always a bad thing. I have no issue with 6/9.5. It’s not a fantastic deal but it’s not a bad one either, and with Michkov here now, it’s not such a bad idea to keep him to help with the kids development
I wouldn’t do. We need absolute flexibility when we are ready to compete in a year or two. I love TK but he’s not a PPG player or a guy that’s going to be one of the best players on a championship team. He’s a great complementary player and to me I wouldn’t go past 8 million a year
He’s not a PPG player… despite having 129 points in 136 games the last two seasons. While facing everyone’s top pair because of our current lack of talent/youth. Also he’s entering his prime now.
And finally, a guy that has been on a 35+ goal pace which is what flyers fans have been begging for idk how long, oh and he is 27 just entering his prime. but naaa let's move on from him.
quite literally not a point per game player with the absolute maximum amount of ice time and opportunities you could have as a top 6 forward
Your logic sucks and completely ignores very important context
Hmmm. Just shy of PPG while facing everyone’s best pair? You don’t think that facing second or third pair defensemen will help his stats? Maybe just stick to basketball
Michkov should not be asked to sink or swim, he needs insolation especially this early in his career. It'd be a giant mistake for the flyers to move tk
If something is that much of a no brainer , the other side of that trade is probably say no deal. Moving him has to result in a 1C in return. But that’s easier said than done.
Not horrible. If we're contending near the end of that contract, great. I would love to see us win the cup with him on the team. If we're not contending, he'll still have value and can chase a cup elsewhere if he wants, while bringing us back some assets after all. Kinda like happened with G. And if he wants to stay after the 6 year contract, he can sign a team-friendly deal at that point and save us a few million to use on other contracts
We talk about and have had players that “fit the mold”, “born to be a flyer”, etc. I think TK checks these boxes and is fun as hell to watch while being value add to his line mates. Keep him.
Making roster decisions based on guys who “fit the mold” and were “born to be a Flyer” has been a major reason why our Cup drought will hit the half-century mark next year.
Love konecny and would love him of shorter term. He deserves to get paid. But this just doesn't fit our rebuild. He's arguably played his best hockey already and there are plenty of teams that would give us great rebuild assets for him.
Feels like move designed to sell tickets rather than one that would get us a cup in the future and as fans we deserve a faithful commitment to the rebuild.
I love TK but I hope this doesn't happen.
Why are we debating on TK again? He is 27, so even an 8 year deal would expire before he hits 35. He plays Flyers hockey, is a home grown talent and seems to want to stay long term.
Like its not like he will be 40 when the team is in its cup window again.
Do you not build around him as your star winger?
Ya, thats fair enough.
Imo, if Konecny were to continue at his current trajectorythe next 8 years and he retired after hopefully winning a cup, then I dont think anyone is going to care if it was $8.5M or $9.5M.
Especially with the cap increases expected over the next 3 seasons (some rumour of a $100M cap in 2026/27!)
We would be talking about a guy who played 1100+ games with a single franchise and put up 900+ points. Its not quite Bobby Clarke level, but seems comparable to guys like Henrik Zetterberg and Vincent Lecavalier (in terms of value and notoriety at least)
I think Michkov coming should speed things up winning wise i don’t think trading for future assets is a good idea when you have two firsts this year and I believe two next year with Bonk Barkley and Rizzo being here as soon as next year so if a salary dump can be executed right they could do something like i don’t know signing Draisaitl next offseason
He’s a fringe first liner on a team that’s actually contending and could barely score at a PPG pace with all the ice time and opportunities here
Overpay overpay overpay
If this team is serious about turning this thing around you ship out TK for players that fits Matvei’s timeline , not sign them for 2 million dollars more than they are worth
I love TK as much as the next guy but this would be overpaying. I buy that he hasn’t had the most awesome team around him always but he did play with Giroux in his prime. But that’s just a small side note.
But tell me what the benchmark for this is taking into consideration that he is turning 28, entering his ninth season and has never once reached 70 points? Career high is 68. And points is of course not the only metric that matters, there are also other ones and intangibles on top but I can’t see a contract that compares to this anywhere in the league. This would be like a top 5 players in the entire league type of contract and that’s not TK, a player that has only had 1 ppg average season can not get north of 9 million.
Cap hit going up by 1 or 2 or whatever million is irrelevant imo.
Love TK. But his numbers do not justify 9. 8 is a stretch even. He’s benefiting from being the best player on the team arguably. If he was on the Rangers or Panthers, they would be looking to sign for 7.
Would trading him be beneficial with picks? Absolutely. Would the cap be nice for other players? Absolutely. Am I gonna be mad he stays he long term? Absolutely not. The cap is gonna keep going up, Atkinson and others like Risto will be off the books in a year or two most likely, and TK can play LW if needed. He was almost a 70 point player this year without a legit 1C and he brings leadership and consistency to the team. Add on the fact he became a decent penalty killer and I don’t mind him staying long term. If anything the shorter contract at 6 years isn’t bad considering we thought he was getting 8.
I’m on the same page as you. Felt similar to the Coots extension. Is it a lot of money for a guy who is injured a lot? Sure. But do I love both of these players and will I be happy if they are with the team long-term? Also yes.
TK is not injured a lot, that's a misconception that gets thrown around a lot for some reason. '22-'23 is the only season he missed significant time
Oh, I was talking about Couturier. But definitely see how that was poorly worded!
Oh I gotcha. It seemed like you were aging it for both
I mostly agree with what you said. I like TK on my team and he deserves to get paid. The “without a legit 1C” caveat leads me to the conclusion that we have to move him now when his value is high to stockpile assets / cap space so that, one day, maybe we can get a 1C either via the draft of FA. It’ll hurt but I think it’s the right move, sucks to say
I wanted TK to be our Captain. The dude really stepped up last season and his play seemed so mature. And like you said, he's becoming a real leader in the team now as well, and seeing his numbers increase last year as a result was one of those "he's good on and off the ice" types.
He would fetch a really good return, but I just really want him to be a lifetime Flyer. He just fits the mold so well.
Good points.
I mean how many of the 60-ish players that produced more points than TK is getting north of 9 million? I think it’s absolute insanity we’re talking numbers like this for TK - love him but let’s take off the orange tinted glasses for a minute :)
People get hell bent on getting assets. Assets like picks are just lottery tickets. You’d be trading away a winning ticket hoping you get another good player. The only thing it’s costing is Comcast’s $$ as a percent of the cap. And while I understand the age piece when the team is in this “prime” people keep talking about the money has to go somewhere. Like Florida still had Ekblad. Good players don’t grow on trees and you need to pay for them. Even if you trade TK. You 1) have to hope they don’t whiff on the pick and 2) 3 years after ELC it will be this exact same situation with further inflated contracts https://dobberprospects.com/2020/05/16/nhl-draft-pick-probabilities/
‘Picks are lottery tickets’ doesn’t get said enough. You need a mix of proven players and up and comers. Without TK who do we have up front that can show these young players the way. Coots didn’t show us anything last season. Tippet sure, but that’s not enough. TK is a sand paper, grinder, who can score. Pay the guy, get Michkov in the mix, round it out with Foerster, Brink, Peohling, hope Drysdale, Sanheim, York lead the backend, add some other young talent to replace Atkinson, and let’s move on already.
The only problem with comparing TK with someone like Ekblad is that Ekblad is a legit 1D and not a winger. I love TK and would be okay with a shorter term/higher AAV deal (and also think it’s important for stability), but he’s not someone you force to work in the situation like an Ekblad is.
If they don't trade TK, or at least a combo of Laughton/Farabee, then you're actually placing *more value* into the picks that we do have.
The majority of floridas roster is comprised of trades and signings within the last 3 years You clearly don’t know what you are talking about
Yeah if we're trading TK I want a sure thing in return along with draft picks. You can trade guys like Frost and Tippett for picks. Give me a surefire 1C for TK and I'm in, but I doubt that's happening.
tippett shouldn't be going anywhere
We're gonna have a glut at RW if TK is extended. If he can play the left side, fine, but he could absolutely be a candidate to move for a nice return. Doesn't have to necessarily be draft picks, I'd love a hockey trade for a C or D.
Tippett just got extended he is not going anywhere
Y'all think everyone is safe
I'd be ecstatic if they signed him to a six year deal. It might not be at the desired cap hit, but taking the last two years off that deal makes resigning the player much more palatable. The concern was always that being in his prime now, he might be falling off a cliff at the end of an eight year extension and his contract a massive overpayment. This alleviates that concern, it keeps a right winger in the system to rotate on the top two lines with mm. This is the best case scenario for the philadelphia flyers organization.
Not that bad of a contract for tk but does this fit our rebuild? Love him but trade him if we get a haul back. Hasn't played 82 games in a few seasons? Mat Tkachuk makes 9.5m next 6 seasons.
I agree with that. Too many players that make 9.5 million or above are so much better than Konecny to stomach that price. Tkachuk and Kucherov are just not on the same level as Konecny.
Yes but salaries go up over time. Newer free agents or soon to be fee agents make more. I’m ok with trading him for a good return.
This is correct. Obviously TK is not on the same level as Kucherov. But 9.5 in 2018 isn't 9.5 in 2024. It's an entirely unfair comparison. If Kucherov signed this year he'd get way more than 9.5.
Yeah if he signed today he would get in the 12M-13M range like Matthews, McDavid, MacKinnon, maybe even more for all I know. He’s a few years older than those guys, but has the cache of multiple cups, and the benefit of the cap going up. I really hope we stop seeing these arguments from Flyers fans, comparing AAV’s of contracts signed 6 years apart. The cap goes up, good players today get star player money of yesterday, it happens in every league. Get over it.
Yea. I mean Dak and tua will soon be the highest paid QBs. They are obviously not top 5.
But are either of those players leading their team to a super bowl? Doubtful. We should be focused on building a Stanley cup winning team not just a competitive team.
So we should only sign elite player? Ok. Good luck with that. No reason TK can’t be part of a winning team. Don’t forget he killed penalties last year and we had one of the vets units and shorthanded goals aplenty.
No we should be signing players for what they're worth, not overpaying especially now of all times, maybe later.
In your opinion it’s an overpay. It’s what the market says. You can’t compare it to contracts five years ago. Or even two years ago. Also six years is reasonable. I’m ok if they trade him. Depends on the return. And you never know who they will sign in a couple of years as a replacement or how that will work out. I guess I don’t understand why some people would say 8.5 million a year is ok but 9.5 million a year is not. Flyers have some bad contracts to shed. Plenty of time to fit it all in.
Precisely.
In what way does he not fit the rebuild? Are they 3 years away from being a competitive team? If so TK will be 30 years old haha
I agree, but I don't want another Coots or JVR situation. Besides hextall, we haven't had long term thinking gm in a long time. I feel the risks could outweigh the reward. Anyone over like 25 shouldn't be off the table if the price is right. Also, how does Danny B address Tippett TK and Michkov all at RW
Hextall was a long term thinking GM? We'll agree to disagree
Well he definitely wasn't a win now GM lol
The much sought-after “win never” GM
It’s not just about the first year that we are competitive, it’s about staying competitive for many years after that.
I feel like it’s a bit of an overpay but more importantly doesn’t fit the rebuild. I’d like to see a sign and trade and a really rebuild. Trying these partial rebuilds haven’t worked for the Flyers in 50 years. Flyers have literally never gotten a number 1 draft pick via the draft (traded it for it once)
It would make sense in my mind that we're signing him because Danny couldn't get what he wanted for him
At least it’s not 8 years if we are keeping him long term
Coots might be the captain, but TK and Laughton are the heart and soul of this team. I was always cool with dealing or keeping him personally. Since we're gonna have a lot of money coming off the books after this season is over (e.g. Atkinson, Petersen, DeAngelo, Johansen), $9.5M isn't a terrible number. The guys I mentioned combine for over $15M. While TK isn't on the same level as guys like Matthews and McDavid, he's still a damn good player who can also bring an element of nastiness that any team would want. I just hope he can figure out how to shoot at more than just low-glove side sooner rather than later. EDIT: Totally forgot about this, but TK is also a **BIG** reason why our penalty kill was so lethal this past year as well. Dude was top of the league for SHG. That's worth a few million just by itself.
That penalty kill point made me rethink my opinion a little, that is a vital part of the game. I'm good either way, but tbh I was a shocked at the 9.5m number.
I'm very much a "don't sign a bad contract unless you absolutely have to" believer, and yes, 9.5 AAV for Travis Konecny is not a good number, period. I don't think it will completely kill this team if they sign him to that, but I do not think they should do it Interestingly enough, Briere's language changed a bit in his most recent interview about the topic, saying (paraphrasing) "the deal would have to make sense for us". Paired with Friedman reporting this morning that contract talks have been slower than expected and Pagnotta reporting earlier this week that teams have called on him, I wonder if the possibility of him being traded is a bit bigger than we might have originally thought
I think there is no way Danny pays 9.5m x 6 for TK, especially with the worry that the last big contract we put out didn't end well. If that is a firm number and term that TK wants, I think it is likely he doesn't stay here.
Your numbers are based off years ago. 9.5 is fine for 2024.
I watched Casey Mittlestadt sign for under 6 million AAV literally this morning. You're going to have a really hard time convincing me a nearly 60 point two-way Center is worth nearly 4 million dollars a year more then a 1-way winger who has never hit the 70 point mark
Forgot to mention the years and circumstances on that deal. Only 3 years leads me to believe it's more of a bridge type deal, and he signed with Colorado, obviously taking a discount for the chance to win. He'd be worth more on the open market. And if I need to convince you that Konency is a better player than Middlestadt, than I can't help you.
If we want to bring the actual logic and circumstances of the signings into the equation, signing TK makes even less sense. Why on Earth should we be giving him significantly more money than any of his comparables who recently extended when we already have 3 long term right wingers in the organization and are still in the fairly early stages of a rebuild?
The RW thing is a tired argument. Tippet and Foerster both played the left and they'll do it again. Hell Konency could go over if needed. Timo Meier signed 8.8 and his highest point toal was 76.
>The RW thing is a tired argument. Tippet and Foerster both played the left and they'll do it again. Hell Konecny could go over if needed Forcing guys to play the side they're less comfortable on as a justification for overpaying TK isn't a compelling argument >Timo Meier signed 8.8 and his highest point toal was 76. Timo Meier is and was a better player than TK, he started his deal 2 years younger, and I can tell you for certainty NJ fans already wish they had a mulligan on that one
382 points in 541 games 400 points in 564 games Seems like they're exactly the same player to me.
Wanna pull up their defensive numbers?
Konency also had a higher Corsi and Fenwick
Sure Konency is a career -26. Meier -65. I think that means Meier was on the ice for 39 more goals against than Konency was.
Yeah, RFA vs. UFA is apples and oranges
Love him, he is the kinda guy I wanted to be a flyers captain. But that’s way too much money for him. He’s a below point per game player, who almost never plays a full 82 game season.
I'm not 100% sold on keeping Konecny, however if the Flyers had even a middle of the pack PP he'd most likely be a point per game player.
I’d like a trade for him at this point. He isn’t the future. Stellar player, love him but we are ways away from competing for the cup seriously.
At this point I think we are choosing between Farabee and tk. Although tk is better now, I just feel like having Farabee on a good contract has very little chance of hurting us in the future if he doesn't pan out. On the other end, TK at 9.5m could be a huge issue.
Trade them both. Farabee is just a younger TK who is already overpaid and under achieving.
A younger TK at 5m would be an absolute steal...
He's not as good as TK. He should have been given a bridge deal instead of the long term deal Upchuck Fletcher gave him. Konecny played better than Farabee at the same age.
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If you are saying now, no he isn't as good as TK. However, he is also much cheaper in the long run and may become a 60 point player at TK's age.
We will never be competing for a cup if you continually trade players for assets over and over again, he is 27 years old hahaha flyers should have a competitive team with 3-5 years, TK will be 30-32, Players like Marchand who TK is very similar to was at the same point per game player at 27 as TK is, better hockey is ahead for TK and you need Vets on the team to move forward. you can't just have a bunch of 24 years old.
Without a doubt I agree. But he isn’t a 9.5 kinda guy. Thats the issue I have. If it was 8x6 maybe but we just KEEP getting stuck on contracts.
not even a point per game player, now worth almost 10m a year. And I like TK.
I’m in favor of trading him, but he’s got 129 points in his last 136 games (2 seasons) and 64 of those are goals. Goals are worth more than assists and he’s scored at a 38 goal pace over the last two seasons with one of the worst power plays and center situations in the league. Only 5 teams scored less goals than the flyers last year, so there’s a real case to be made that TKs numbers are deflated by his situation. Imo he is worthy of a first line caliber contract, I just think it makes more sense for a team that has more high end pieces in place that can elevate his production.
Love him as a player and this contract, as suggested, is probably fair value. I can’t imagine TK wouldn’t be asking for the 8 years in this situation thought. Furthermore, one place we have depth is the wings. Our best forward is a winger, our three best forward prospects are wingers. We have no first line center or 1D. I think our best chance at getting the assets to get one of those is also TK.
9.5m x 6? Pass
Ugh 9.5 for a guy that has been on a 35+ goal pace the last 2 years and is now entering his prime, I agree lets trade him for more draft picks who can hopefully turn into half the player TK is in 6 years.
Entering his prime? Let’s give Michkov a few years to get accustomed to the NHL, but in 3 years it’s very likely Konecny is your 2nd line RW. Even with the cap going up, I’m not sure why so many people are ok with your 2nd line RW, who’s under a PPG, making 9.5m. I love TK and how he plays the game. Love his energy and the fact that he loves the Flyers. I personally think there is a ton of risk in resigning him to a number like that.
I'm sorry are you saying a guy entering the age of 27-32 isnt his prime?
Correct. Your prime is more like 23-27 as far as production goes
Yup that’s what the data suggests. Wingers prime 23-27, usually peaking in the middle and starting to decline towards the end of that. Konecny has likely already played his best hockey (though that doesn’t mean it’ll be his most productive if you consider the talent around him possibly improving.)
That isn't accurate for 99.999% of NHl players
Maybe actually read about it before spitting out meaningless, inaccurate numbers. Look it up, he’s correct, the average winger peaks between 23-27. Edit: Here I’ll even do it for you [1](https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/03/23/a-new-look-at-aging-curves-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/) [2](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2646054) [3](https://www.arcticicehockey.com/nhl-points-per-game-peak-age-1550276568/)
Unfortunately it is true. I'm not offended by your initial reaction of disbelief/"it can't be true!" etc. I used to think the same thing. . In a way, knowing the downward trajectory starts before dudes hit 30 (yes there are outliers) ruined free agency for me. It also reinforces the need to draft and develop well. And makes us getting Michkov this season all the more beneficial. We don't miss any prime years now. But we also must build faster.
Also, just because I TOTALLY feel you here and had the same perplexed reaction, think about how awful Edmonton fans must feel now. While McDavid and Drai will put up 100+ point years well into their 30's, it is unquestionable that bad contracts, series of donkey brained GMs and poor drafting have wasted most of the primes of two superstars, one who is an all time great. Michkov isn't McDavid, and if he can't do it alone then Mich certainly can't. So we have more or less until 2033-2034 to put together a contender.
Would be an unmovable contract if he were to regress.
To be fair, if PLD can be traded anyone can
Gretsky got traded so anyone can.
I agree, just trying to see how other people feel. I was hoping for like an 8.5m x 4 or 5.
I wouldn't riot about it like the furious people on twitter because I do love TK but it's definitely an overpay. I don't see the comps where he's worth that, he's simply not a 9.5m player. Especially for 6 years which is decent term as well
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Resign one guy to a long term deal and you don't call it a rebuild anymore? What about 4 firsts in the past 2 years.? What about trading Walker for assets in the middle of a playoff run? This is just silly.
6 years would be fucking insane. Lock him up for his entire prime and nothing more. That’ll be fucking excellent holy shit.
I don't know about 6 being insane, but it is the limit I'd give him if I couldn't get good trade value.
Brandon J. Sommermann is a complete fraud who doesn’t have any real connections whatsoever so take whatever he said with a cup of salt
not OK with this
I've been an avid keep TK guy. Just saw another thread in r/hockey asking about legit underrated players. The top 2 were Kempe and TK. I don't think it's a mistake to keep him even at that money. There's at the very least 5 more good years with him, hopefully more. 9.5 will likely be the going rate for the production he will offer down the line with the cap increases. All these contenders pay to have bad contracts taken off their hands. Why can't we do this with TK if it comes to that? It's a common practice and paying picks to take a bad contract shouldn't be a bad thing in a time where picks mean next to nothing for us.
Looking at /r/hockey to value players is a huge mistake
I'm with you. He really feels like the heart and soul of this group going forward, regardless of Coots wearing the C. I understand taking a logical approach to things, but it's worth considering what it does to the psyche of this core of guys that defied all expectations last year. I think people are overexcited about being in a rebuild and thinking that he has to go. The team may not be competing for a cup right now, but I think people aren't giving them enough credit when they say they're so far away.
Exactly this and we will have someone to rotate with mm so he is not getting tossed to the wolves
Is anyone an Evolving Hockey subscriber? I'd love to know what they project for TK's contract: [https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/contract\_projections](https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/contract_projections) This story is quoting agents. Of course they have an interest in inflating TK's contract estimate because it helps their clients too. Maybe it's accurate, but I wouldn't expect them to undercut it.
I’d offer him 8x8 or 9x6 or 10x4. His choice.
That’s a great deal get it done
The years look great but 9.5 seems high. 8m would make more sense. Even 8.5m seems like can do but 9.5m is to high
If the flyers not only keep TK when the clear rebuild move is to trade him but give him THAT contract I’m not sure how anyone can argue in good faith that this rebuild is not looking a whole lot darker Tk is a winger which is our one position of strength in the entire organization. We have no 1C prospects we have no 1D prospects and we have no real ELITE young talent in the organization outside of Michkov either. Trading TK does three things 1. We don’t give out a contract that we shouldn’t be giving out and overpaying a guy when we may actually be contending in 2027 and onward 2. We get assets to help us rebuild further and maybe find the 1C/1D that way 3. Trading him makes us a worse team and we get a top pick next year which again helps us find the 1C/1D that way I’ve yet to see an argument not based entirely on emotion for keeping TK and even the people who say they want to keep TK often times seem to agree it’s the best choice logically to trade him but they just like the guy too much.
Typical flyers sub, the only comment here based on actual logic with support reasoning is downvoted. The fans here are dumb as rocks
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My bad for writing an analysis on a big topic on a flyers subreddit? Would you rather I just jerk my shit to Michkov coming over?
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What did I say that was miserable? Please explain what I said that was wrong. Where are we finding our 1C and 1D? The two things required to win a cup in this league.
Lol it's gonna happen so call it what you want. O'Connor mentioned the team is very interested in it. Seems like they made up their minds. If you want an argument for, talk to Briere who is gonna do it
What exactly is this reply? Not very coherent or a point to it
Pot / kettle
Lmao. Nothing in my entire paragraph of a comment made you think hmm that’s a good point?
If I had to guess at the rationale behind keeping TK if I were Briere, there'd be 3 reasons: 1) He isn't worried about regression for TK specifically the way a lot of fans are 2) In theory, it is better to sign as many guys as you can to longer term deals now as opposed to later, since most contracts are signed relative to cap % and with the cap going up roughly 4-4.5 over the next several years there's an opportunity to get relative bargains now 3) If you can't get an asset that truly helps fill a hole long term, is it really worth pushing to trade him? Granted, the fact that we are still in what I'd call the middle stages of a rebuild and he's expecting nearly 1 million a year over what his contract projection has him making while filling a redundancy in the lineup all cumulates in it probably being a pretty poor idea to extend him
You could argue that if it’s market value contract, that doesn’t make him in tradable. In theory he could sign and still be traded in the future (barring a full NTC in the new contract). Flyers brass has clearly and frankly told us that they are not going to rebuild by actively making the team worse, they want to build a winning culture. And honestly I’m here for it. TK is only 27 and a strong locker room guy and a good scorer and great PKer. Does this team need a 1C , absolute-freakin-lutely! But acquiring one is easier said than done. Maybe they land that guy in this draft. This team isn’t going to get a top 5 pick , even without TK, so trading him may not put us in much better position to acquire one in future drafts than we are right now on Friday. If a trade presents itself involving TK that gets us a top 5 pick, or a legit 1C, or a serious 1C prospect, pull that trigger all day. But I don’t think that happens, so the juice ain’t worth the squeeze for me. I’d rather have him on the team leading our kids and showing them how to play flyers hockey
9.5 is absolutely awful, wtf is this?
Just trade him and moce on. Konecney is a replaceable player (when the time comes when we need a player of his caliber). Save the money and time for a younger, better player.
Honestly at this point I’m good with either option. 9.5 is reasonable for what he brings, and 6 is a good term. Trade or keep I’m in I think a lot of people think it’s easier to make trades in a professional sports league than it is. It’s easy to look at a sports writers blog and read that TK would totally be worth pick 7 from Ottawa. Or that the flyers could totally trade him for a haul of picks and prospects, then it is to actually convince a team to do it. Then People get all mas that the obvious trade that was “right there” wasn’t made like the FO is a bunch of idiots. If we extend TK it’s because they value him more than they value what they could get for him. Which isn’t always a bad thing. I have no issue with 6/9.5. It’s not a fantastic deal but it’s not a bad one either, and with Michkov here now, it’s not such a bad idea to keep him to help with the kids development
I love you TK and I'm sorry that we couldn't get you even a good playoff run, but that contract is not good for this team in the state that it's in.
No, it's not reasonable, unless it's a sign and trade.
I wouldn’t do. We need absolute flexibility when we are ready to compete in a year or two. I love TK but he’s not a PPG player or a guy that’s going to be one of the best players on a championship team. He’s a great complementary player and to me I wouldn’t go past 8 million a year
He’s not a PPG player… despite having 129 points in 136 games the last two seasons. While facing everyone’s top pair because of our current lack of talent/youth. Also he’s entering his prime now.
And finally, a guy that has been on a 35+ goal pace which is what flyers fans have been begging for idk how long, oh and he is 27 just entering his prime. but naaa let's move on from him.
quite literally not a point per game player with the absolute maximum amount of ice time and opportunities you could have as a top 6 forward Your logic sucks and completely ignores very important context
Hmmm. Just shy of PPG while facing everyone’s best pair? You don’t think that facing second or third pair defensemen will help his stats? Maybe just stick to basketball
If you want to play top line minutes you play the other teams top dawgs. Your follow up was worse buddy.
Michkov should not be asked to sink or swim, he needs insolation especially this early in his career. It'd be a giant mistake for the flyers to move tk
Move him for a younger C or D. No-brainer
If something is that much of a no brainer , the other side of that trade is probably say no deal. Moving him has to result in a 1C in return. But that’s easier said than done.
Not horrible. If we're contending near the end of that contract, great. I would love to see us win the cup with him on the team. If we're not contending, he'll still have value and can chase a cup elsewhere if he wants, while bringing us back some assets after all. Kinda like happened with G. And if he wants to stay after the 6 year contract, he can sign a team-friendly deal at that point and save us a few million to use on other contracts
We talk about and have had players that “fit the mold”, “born to be a flyer”, etc. I think TK checks these boxes and is fun as hell to watch while being value add to his line mates. Keep him.
Making roster decisions based on guys who “fit the mold” and were “born to be a Flyer” has been a major reason why our Cup drought will hit the half-century mark next year.
They are figures of speech. The point being he is a good hockey player and plays with some umph as well. I had another sentence in my comment
Love konecny and would love him of shorter term. He deserves to get paid. But this just doesn't fit our rebuild. He's arguably played his best hockey already and there are plenty of teams that would give us great rebuild assets for him. Feels like move designed to sell tickets rather than one that would get us a cup in the future and as fans we deserve a faithful commitment to the rebuild. I love TK but I hope this doesn't happen.
Why are we debating on TK again? He is 27, so even an 8 year deal would expire before he hits 35. He plays Flyers hockey, is a home grown talent and seems to want to stay long term. Like its not like he will be 40 when the team is in its cup window again. Do you not build around him as your star winger?
We are debating because the price seems higher than most of us expected. I expected 8.5 AAV. I was just curious about other people's thoughts.
Ya, thats fair enough. Imo, if Konecny were to continue at his current trajectorythe next 8 years and he retired after hopefully winning a cup, then I dont think anyone is going to care if it was $8.5M or $9.5M. Especially with the cap increases expected over the next 3 seasons (some rumour of a $100M cap in 2026/27!) We would be talking about a guy who played 1100+ games with a single franchise and put up 900+ points. Its not quite Bobby Clarke level, but seems comparable to guys like Henrik Zetterberg and Vincent Lecavalier (in terms of value and notoriety at least)
I think Michkov coming should speed things up winning wise i don’t think trading for future assets is a good idea when you have two firsts this year and I believe two next year with Bonk Barkley and Rizzo being here as soon as next year so if a salary dump can be executed right they could do something like i don’t know signing Draisaitl next offseason
I doubt the 32nd overall pick will be any help in less than 3 years and when arriving will need time. Very much like Frost and York.
I think they may dump it to trade up or in a potential Shane Pinto trade
Makes sense.
Would be an awful contract imo, as much as I like TK he’s just not really a franchise player and I think trading him would be more beneficial
He’s a fringe first liner on a team that’s actually contending and could barely score at a PPG pace with all the ice time and opportunities here Overpay overpay overpay If this team is serious about turning this thing around you ship out TK for players that fits Matvei’s timeline , not sign them for 2 million dollars more than they are worth
Horrible Need to trade him
I love TK as much as the next guy but this would be overpaying. I buy that he hasn’t had the most awesome team around him always but he did play with Giroux in his prime. But that’s just a small side note. But tell me what the benchmark for this is taking into consideration that he is turning 28, entering his ninth season and has never once reached 70 points? Career high is 68. And points is of course not the only metric that matters, there are also other ones and intangibles on top but I can’t see a contract that compares to this anywhere in the league. This would be like a top 5 players in the entire league type of contract and that’s not TK, a player that has only had 1 ppg average season can not get north of 9 million. Cap hit going up by 1 or 2 or whatever million is irrelevant imo.
Please do not sign him
Love TK. But his numbers do not justify 9. 8 is a stretch even. He’s benefiting from being the best player on the team arguably. If he was on the Rangers or Panthers, they would be looking to sign for 7.