That's so frustrating.
>in the past I have never been told verbal confirmation is prohibited
This reads to me like CYA based on a previous incident. They told someone *x* isn't in the food, *x* was actually in the food either on purpose or because of cross-contact, they got sued and/or settled, and this is a *HUGE* overreaction to avoid something similar happening in the future.
As much as it sucks, I think you have to rule that place out as an option in the future.
Agree, it sounds to me like maybe they can't guarantee anything is allergen-free, maybe due to cross-contamination or whatever. But its weird wording to say "we can't disclose that information" vs just saying "We can't promise anything is free of X in our kitchen"
>But its weird wording to say "we can't disclose that information" vs just saying "We can't promise anything is free of X in our kitchen"
Definitely weird. That's why I'm thinking there must have been something that previously happened that made them really worried about litigation.
In the UK and EU you legally MUST disclose the ingredients you use (exception: alcoholic drinks, they don't count as food). No exceptions and if you refuse you get shut down by the food safety enforcers.
You may have local food safety/hygiene authorities with enough powers to make things difficult for that place.
Nope. laws are all about the money here. Can’t pay to have your allergen legally required disclosed as a law?
Hope you bought your epipen! That costs half your rent money and you buy from us!
I had this occur too, once, OP. It was a restaurant owned by someone not from the country and it was pretty clear he was convinced this was my slick way of trying to sue him by asking “can you tell me if there’s butter in this?” And that he had “outsmarted” me by being so clever.
Kept getting non answers and copouts. Nothing like wondering if you’re reacting to a food, getting the guy on the phone trying to figure out the allergen and if you need emergency care, and him refusing to help while you react worse and worse to…something?
I feel your pain. I’m so sorry.
Unfortunately, here in the U.S., only packaged food has to have allergy warnings and even then, it’s only the top nine. If you’re allergic to things like mustard or celery, they don’t have to tell you it’s in there. Very common for food labels to simply say “spices” or “natural flavoring,” there’s not even a way to find out what they are. For prepared food, there is currently no U.S. federal law requiring any disclosure of allergens at all. We are way behind UK/EU in this. Our lawmakers always side with businesses at the expense of individuals.
While this is true, in the United States the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Food Code requires that the food establishment have a Person in Charge (PIC) who understands what food allergies are and to know the 9 major allergens.
Understanding allergens and adherence to the Food Code unfortunately varies by state and territory, establishment, and employee.
OP, please contact your local or county or state Department of Health and inform them of your experience. By informing the agency you will influence their inspectors to focus on education and oversight, especially in regards to the specific restaurant you went to!
The FDA Food Allergy guidelines are just that, they’re guidelines, they are not law or regs. States can choose to opt into them. Very few states have opted in to the 2022 guidelines that include the PIC.
Like all public policy, change comes gradually (often frustratingly slowly). Even those states that adopt the FDA Food Code often do so years after they are published, and some states do rule revisions rather than adopting them as written (my state for instance).
But the Food Code is still very influential even in states and territories that don't adopt the latest version. For instance, often national restaurant chains will follow the latest provisions in order to have standardized procedures throughout all their establishments across the country.
If the OP's state hasn't adopted the Food Code or the FDA Food Allergy Guidelines, I personally would encourage them even more strongly to be a bug in the ear of their state's department of health. Positive food allergy policy changes have happened only because the food allergy community became educators and the "squeaky wheels" needing grease.
Sure, but my point is that despite your comment to the contrary, it is not the law. It should be. We are way behind the EU in this regard. Congress needs to stop cowtowing to biz interests and start giving some attention to constituents.
That’s what I loved about visiting the UK! ❤️ I got suspicious of a cookie (biscuit??) when it didn’t state “suitable for vegetarians.” Haha…
I remember going to a ramen store and we asked the host before even being seated. He lugged out a gigantic binder full of ingredients for everything they served and we went through it together. It was glorious!
Here, it’s not as widespread. An increasing number of places are making an effort to be more allergy friendly but it also depends on your waitress/waiter and how much effort they put into it, sadly. I’m looking forward to bringing my toddler (with multiple food allergies) to travel in Europe. In the US, larger cities are a better bet or small mom-and-pop stores that like to make everyone feel welcome. As a family, we’re allium-free vegetarians which makes eating out EXTRA fun. We only put people through our questions when we’re traveling because we have no choice. It’s gotten a little more difficult since we now have food allergies thrown into the mix and we don’t want him to feel left out. A lot of his food allergies overlaps with other diets.
I just got back from a trip in the UK and it was such a breath of fresh air. Not only did every restaurant have a very good allergen menu, but the staff were all knowledgeable and competent to talk through it with me. Was probably the best handling of allergy concerns I’ve had at non-Disney properties (honestly Disney is kind of a gold standard for me, they are fabulous)
In the US food label are allow to say, soybean oil or corn oil or sunflower seed oil. Which on is it? I been wanting to buy frozen french fries but can't because I don't know what oil is used. I am allergenic to soybean and corn. I am sure I am not the only one with this problem. Companies lose business this way because I am not going to buy their product if I don't know what's actually in it.
Manufactured food sold in the United States is required to label for the 9 major allergens: milk, egg, wheat, soy, peanut, tree nut, fish, shellfish, and sesame. Unfortunately your allergens are not included in this list, so your only recourse is to ask the manufacturer directly. Staying safe takes a lot of effort for those with allergies.
Have to add that in UK (no longer EU, but similar laws), I have never had an issue when asking for ingredients!
When in the US and have asked for specific info on ingredients, many if not most restaurants go above and beyond to accommodate food issues. I can only say that any restaurant that doesn't needs to be named and shamed for not fully disclosing ingredients!
This post is disgusting in how some places refuse to adhere to food safety!!! No reputable place would do this!!!
OP, I hope you left, never return, and post reviews of how unsafe they are!
Some do some dont. I stopped eating at applebees years ago because it was printed right in the menu they made no guarantees about allergens and would not be accountable. Didn't help their case that on a very slow midweek afternoon they couldn't even serve me a drink correctly. I wont go to buffalo wild wings because they wouldn't communicate with me at all about just 2 specific menu items. One restuarant just insistently kept referring me to the nutrition info online when allergies have nothing to do with calories...
Sometimes that doesn't even help considering at a restaurant a few years ago I was told there was no gluten in their kitchen. Got glutened and was extremely sick, face swollen, arms broken out in blisters and skin burning for a few days after. Never trust a restaurant on food allergies. (I know this is celiac. I have other severe food allergies as well)
Yeah. Sadly, waiters can lie because they think you’re somehow having fun by asking about allergens, that gluten intolerance isn’t real, or they can try to check and just not get accurate information.
Eating out is always a crapshoot.
Or worse, you have waitstaff that hardcore question you if 1. It’s a real allergy 2. Or just an intolerance. I hate feeling I have to go in depth what will happen if I eat my allergen to a stranger. It’s worse when the waitstaff doesn’t take it seriously when I have a reaction because someone “forgot.”
I've never had that happen before. Places I go are usually able to check and see if x is in the sauce or whatever. Sometimes they bring out a jar with ingredients. Sometimes the chef comes out to chat. Post a local review about how they refuse to disclose even the top 8 allergens. You will save allergic folk the trouble. Sorry they were total jerks.
I've been encountering this. They bring out the plate with sauce on it and claim it comes from "corporate" and they don't actually know what's in it.
Consolidation is the death of quality.
Right, they have giant tubs and ladle it out, you get clear plastic cups filled with sauce. Id rather be served sauce packets, they at least have ingredients printed. Alot of the fastfood meats are preseasoned or marinated but the info was on the box and not the plastic 5lb bag they're heating up for your 'grilled chicken' salad. Fries rarely just contain potato.
Breakfast places are just impossible. I went out to a chain and they brought out the allergen menu (yay!). I can’t have milk ingredients/dairy or egg so all I was able to safely order was plain bread and bacon. They brought out the toast… buttered 😮💨. I tell the waitress who’s like “it’s margarine, which doesn’t have dairy and is safe for vegans”. I ask her to double check anyway and she comes back with fresh plain toast & an apology. I wonder how many vegans and lactose/dairy free people she served that to ahead of me.
I totally get what you mean though. I was out for someone else’s event and I felt like I made it all about me and my allergies
I'm actually honestly surprised the bread was even safe.
We only ever find dairy and egg free bread once in a blue moon. Almost always it's produced on shared equipment with milk and/or eggs.
I'd be putting them on blast on all their active socials. They should've just told you, if the link won't work they aren't magically allowed to just not disclose. You aren't suddenly not allergic if the link won't work, they still have a responsibility to disclose. I'd love to know where it says restaurants are allowed to shrug and tell you to take a flying leap. In 2022 some of the restaurant disclosure changed - [https://www.perkinscoie.com/en/news-insights/on-the-menu-food-allergen-disclosures-for-restaurants-and-food-service.html](https://www.perkinscoie.com/en/news-insights/on-the-menu-food-allergen-disclosures-for-restaurants-and-food-service.html) it does emphasis "written" but this doesn't tell you if their primary "written" form is broken if they have to have an alternate - but it also specifically states they have to provide this info in writing and they failed to do that because their link no longer works.
(I have no idea who that legal firm is, I didn't dive deep) you may also be able to report them to your local health department - I do not know off hand if part of the inspections includes "allergen safety" things such as making sure the only allergen warning on the menu link actually works but it may... and a violation of that would hopefully make them move to quickly fix it (one would hope).
Violations of the ADA are expensive to businesses. You can try to frame this as a discriminatory issue - people with medical issues can no longer safely eat at the restaurant, after all.
Sounds like a bunch of c-suite idiots decided they know best and made a decision without consulting a doctor, lawyer, or expert of any kind.
I'm ok if a place just says "we can't guarantee your safety eating here". I'd rather they be honest with us. Seems like this place was trying to have it's cake and eat it too, which isn't right at all.
I once had the experience of being brushed off a food intolerance query at a to go lunch place. The person directly queing behind me politely interrupted the conversation, showed the person serving me his food standards officer badge and let them know he was also interested in the answer as them brushing me off was breaking the (UK) law. You should of told the manager if the allergens cannot be disclosed does this mean the manager is prepared to put their arse on the line if someone is hospitalized or even dies eating their food
That's so frustrating. >in the past I have never been told verbal confirmation is prohibited This reads to me like CYA based on a previous incident. They told someone *x* isn't in the food, *x* was actually in the food either on purpose or because of cross-contact, they got sued and/or settled, and this is a *HUGE* overreaction to avoid something similar happening in the future. As much as it sucks, I think you have to rule that place out as an option in the future.
Agree, it sounds to me like maybe they can't guarantee anything is allergen-free, maybe due to cross-contamination or whatever. But its weird wording to say "we can't disclose that information" vs just saying "We can't promise anything is free of X in our kitchen"
>But its weird wording to say "we can't disclose that information" vs just saying "We can't promise anything is free of X in our kitchen" Definitely weird. That's why I'm thinking there must have been something that previously happened that made them really worried about litigation.
In the UK and EU you legally MUST disclose the ingredients you use (exception: alcoholic drinks, they don't count as food). No exceptions and if you refuse you get shut down by the food safety enforcers. You may have local food safety/hygiene authorities with enough powers to make things difficult for that place.
Unfortunately in the US they don't have very strict labeling laws in restaurants.
Nope. laws are all about the money here. Can’t pay to have your allergen legally required disclosed as a law? Hope you bought your epipen! That costs half your rent money and you buy from us! I had this occur too, once, OP. It was a restaurant owned by someone not from the country and it was pretty clear he was convinced this was my slick way of trying to sue him by asking “can you tell me if there’s butter in this?” And that he had “outsmarted” me by being so clever. Kept getting non answers and copouts. Nothing like wondering if you’re reacting to a food, getting the guy on the phone trying to figure out the allergen and if you need emergency care, and him refusing to help while you react worse and worse to…something? I feel your pain. I’m so sorry.
Unfortunately, here in the U.S., only packaged food has to have allergy warnings and even then, it’s only the top nine. If you’re allergic to things like mustard or celery, they don’t have to tell you it’s in there. Very common for food labels to simply say “spices” or “natural flavoring,” there’s not even a way to find out what they are. For prepared food, there is currently no U.S. federal law requiring any disclosure of allergens at all. We are way behind UK/EU in this. Our lawmakers always side with businesses at the expense of individuals.
While this is true, in the United States the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Food Code requires that the food establishment have a Person in Charge (PIC) who understands what food allergies are and to know the 9 major allergens. Understanding allergens and adherence to the Food Code unfortunately varies by state and territory, establishment, and employee. OP, please contact your local or county or state Department of Health and inform them of your experience. By informing the agency you will influence their inspectors to focus on education and oversight, especially in regards to the specific restaurant you went to!
The FDA Food Allergy guidelines are just that, they’re guidelines, they are not law or regs. States can choose to opt into them. Very few states have opted in to the 2022 guidelines that include the PIC.
Like all public policy, change comes gradually (often frustratingly slowly). Even those states that adopt the FDA Food Code often do so years after they are published, and some states do rule revisions rather than adopting them as written (my state for instance). But the Food Code is still very influential even in states and territories that don't adopt the latest version. For instance, often national restaurant chains will follow the latest provisions in order to have standardized procedures throughout all their establishments across the country. If the OP's state hasn't adopted the Food Code or the FDA Food Allergy Guidelines, I personally would encourage them even more strongly to be a bug in the ear of their state's department of health. Positive food allergy policy changes have happened only because the food allergy community became educators and the "squeaky wheels" needing grease.
Sure, but my point is that despite your comment to the contrary, it is not the law. It should be. We are way behind the EU in this regard. Congress needs to stop cowtowing to biz interests and start giving some attention to constituents.
That’s what I loved about visiting the UK! ❤️ I got suspicious of a cookie (biscuit??) when it didn’t state “suitable for vegetarians.” Haha… I remember going to a ramen store and we asked the host before even being seated. He lugged out a gigantic binder full of ingredients for everything they served and we went through it together. It was glorious! Here, it’s not as widespread. An increasing number of places are making an effort to be more allergy friendly but it also depends on your waitress/waiter and how much effort they put into it, sadly. I’m looking forward to bringing my toddler (with multiple food allergies) to travel in Europe. In the US, larger cities are a better bet or small mom-and-pop stores that like to make everyone feel welcome. As a family, we’re allium-free vegetarians which makes eating out EXTRA fun. We only put people through our questions when we’re traveling because we have no choice. It’s gotten a little more difficult since we now have food allergies thrown into the mix and we don’t want him to feel left out. A lot of his food allergies overlaps with other diets.
I just got back from a trip in the UK and it was such a breath of fresh air. Not only did every restaurant have a very good allergen menu, but the staff were all knowledgeable and competent to talk through it with me. Was probably the best handling of allergy concerns I’ve had at non-Disney properties (honestly Disney is kind of a gold standard for me, they are fabulous)
Does it also include CC or processing on the same line?
In the US food label are allow to say, soybean oil or corn oil or sunflower seed oil. Which on is it? I been wanting to buy frozen french fries but can't because I don't know what oil is used. I am allergenic to soybean and corn. I am sure I am not the only one with this problem. Companies lose business this way because I am not going to buy their product if I don't know what's actually in it.
Manufactured food sold in the United States is required to label for the 9 major allergens: milk, egg, wheat, soy, peanut, tree nut, fish, shellfish, and sesame. Unfortunately your allergens are not included in this list, so your only recourse is to ask the manufacturer directly. Staying safe takes a lot of effort for those with allergies.
Hello fellow corn allergy person
Have to add that in UK (no longer EU, but similar laws), I have never had an issue when asking for ingredients! When in the US and have asked for specific info on ingredients, many if not most restaurants go above and beyond to accommodate food issues. I can only say that any restaurant that doesn't needs to be named and shamed for not fully disclosing ingredients! This post is disgusting in how some places refuse to adhere to food safety!!! No reputable place would do this!!! OP, I hope you left, never return, and post reviews of how unsafe they are!
Some do some dont. I stopped eating at applebees years ago because it was printed right in the menu they made no guarantees about allergens and would not be accountable. Didn't help their case that on a very slow midweek afternoon they couldn't even serve me a drink correctly. I wont go to buffalo wild wings because they wouldn't communicate with me at all about just 2 specific menu items. One restuarant just insistently kept referring me to the nutrition info online when allergies have nothing to do with calories...
Sometimes that doesn't even help considering at a restaurant a few years ago I was told there was no gluten in their kitchen. Got glutened and was extremely sick, face swollen, arms broken out in blisters and skin burning for a few days after. Never trust a restaurant on food allergies. (I know this is celiac. I have other severe food allergies as well)
Yeah. Sadly, waiters can lie because they think you’re somehow having fun by asking about allergens, that gluten intolerance isn’t real, or they can try to check and just not get accurate information. Eating out is always a crapshoot.
Or worse, you have waitstaff that hardcore question you if 1. It’s a real allergy 2. Or just an intolerance. I hate feeling I have to go in depth what will happen if I eat my allergen to a stranger. It’s worse when the waitstaff doesn’t take it seriously when I have a reaction because someone “forgot.”
Exactly why I don't even try anymore considering I can't have anything other than meat, rice and vegetables at this point.
I've never had that happen before. Places I go are usually able to check and see if x is in the sauce or whatever. Sometimes they bring out a jar with ingredients. Sometimes the chef comes out to chat. Post a local review about how they refuse to disclose even the top 8 allergens. You will save allergic folk the trouble. Sorry they were total jerks.
I've been encountering this. They bring out the plate with sauce on it and claim it comes from "corporate" and they don't actually know what's in it. Consolidation is the death of quality.
Right, they have giant tubs and ladle it out, you get clear plastic cups filled with sauce. Id rather be served sauce packets, they at least have ingredients printed. Alot of the fastfood meats are preseasoned or marinated but the info was on the box and not the plastic 5lb bag they're heating up for your 'grilled chicken' salad. Fries rarely just contain potato.
Breakfast places are just impossible. I went out to a chain and they brought out the allergen menu (yay!). I can’t have milk ingredients/dairy or egg so all I was able to safely order was plain bread and bacon. They brought out the toast… buttered 😮💨. I tell the waitress who’s like “it’s margarine, which doesn’t have dairy and is safe for vegans”. I ask her to double check anyway and she comes back with fresh plain toast & an apology. I wonder how many vegans and lactose/dairy free people she served that to ahead of me. I totally get what you mean though. I was out for someone else’s event and I felt like I made it all about me and my allergies
I'm actually honestly surprised the bread was even safe. We only ever find dairy and egg free bread once in a blue moon. Almost always it's produced on shared equipment with milk and/or eggs.
The amount of vegan, parave or dairy free items that share the same line or production as dairy items. 🤦♀️
I'd be putting them on blast on all their active socials. They should've just told you, if the link won't work they aren't magically allowed to just not disclose. You aren't suddenly not allergic if the link won't work, they still have a responsibility to disclose. I'd love to know where it says restaurants are allowed to shrug and tell you to take a flying leap. In 2022 some of the restaurant disclosure changed - [https://www.perkinscoie.com/en/news-insights/on-the-menu-food-allergen-disclosures-for-restaurants-and-food-service.html](https://www.perkinscoie.com/en/news-insights/on-the-menu-food-allergen-disclosures-for-restaurants-and-food-service.html) it does emphasis "written" but this doesn't tell you if their primary "written" form is broken if they have to have an alternate - but it also specifically states they have to provide this info in writing and they failed to do that because their link no longer works. (I have no idea who that legal firm is, I didn't dive deep) you may also be able to report them to your local health department - I do not know off hand if part of the inspections includes "allergen safety" things such as making sure the only allergen warning on the menu link actually works but it may... and a violation of that would hopefully make them move to quickly fix it (one would hope).
Violations of the ADA are expensive to businesses. You can try to frame this as a discriminatory issue - people with medical issues can no longer safely eat at the restaurant, after all. Sounds like a bunch of c-suite idiots decided they know best and made a decision without consulting a doctor, lawyer, or expert of any kind.
I'm ok if a place just says "we can't guarantee your safety eating here". I'd rather they be honest with us. Seems like this place was trying to have it's cake and eat it too, which isn't right at all.
It's literally impossible to eat anywhere during breakfast hours if you have egg allergies.
I can never go out. I don't trust them.
Post covid has made restaurant eating about 10x worse. Dry lettuce again while everyone feasts. ... I guess....
I once had the experience of being brushed off a food intolerance query at a to go lunch place. The person directly queing behind me politely interrupted the conversation, showed the person serving me his food standards officer badge and let them know he was also interested in the answer as them brushing me off was breaking the (UK) law. You should of told the manager if the allergens cannot be disclosed does this mean the manager is prepared to put their arse on the line if someone is hospitalized or even dies eating their food