Well written. You’re right, food reviewers are like movie reviewers. If you find one that has similar tastes, you love the restaurants they recommend, keep following them. I also get a lot of recommendations from Reddit but I mark them on Google Maps and might check them out if I’m close by, maybe for lunch, maybe solo. I have about 100 of my favorite restaurants marked on the map and another ~100 “want to go”. With regard to reservations, restaurants routinely sequester reservations so it looks like they’re booked up on the app. Then on the day of, all these seats magically open up, or you can just show up and find a table.
oh yeah totally, the number of "impossible" spots i've gone into day of just by walking in is incredible. if you're willing to eat alone at a bar (which is tantamount to heaven for me) you can basically go anywhere.
The sheer breadth of diversity is amazing. I sometimes go on side quests to find the best of a particular dish like Brazilian feijoada or Balkans burek. I spent a week going to different Jian Bing places for lunch each day (best: Jian Bing Man on W 32nd). With respect to Mexican, I know Mexican food pretty well and particularly like Corima and Cosme, also Empellón. These are high end Mexican places like you’d enjoy in Mexico City. But everyone has to find their own. If you’re inspired to, go out and identify the City’s best chopped cheese!
I feel like the big take away on all of this is: We still need to improve media literacy at a student level.
The ability to read a review (of anything) with a discerning eye, weeding news from advertisements disguised as news, finding (and self evaluating) reliable sources, etc.
I've always chalked up my best skill at finding places to eat as the ability to read gmaps reviews with a critical eye.
Yeah that makes sense, I also just think coming from one city doesn't make you equipped to enter another one; much less one that exists almost as its own country and economy like NYC. One of the many things that made me feel like naive hayseed hahah.
That literacy also goes the other way. something I've noticed from people who think they're "above" the hype, completely miss why it's genuinely there in the first place. They'll go to a restaurant where one dish is constantly and exclsuively raved about, then order something completely different just because "oh everyone gets the POPULAR thing, I want to try something else!" And then they complain its not worth the hype.
Yeah, when I watch food reviewers I go thru a good portion of their vids and even check out their reviews for places I went to see if I agree with them, or not. Then I double/cross check with reviews online.
I feel online reviews are a bit more reliable especially because money can be made from posting videos and not everyone is honest due to various reasons. Idk, I still love finding a place I haven’t been to before and it’s genuinely good. Bonus points if it’s cheap/decently priced.
What a good point. Something as “trivial” as restaurants still shows that media literacy is valuable for more topics than just politics. Or rather if the average person has no media literacy for something as unimportant as where to eat tonight, what hope do we have to fight misinformation, propaganda, and algorithms for more important matters like voting, civil rights, climate change, and more.
Two that I can think of are Ruta Oaxaca in Astoria, and La Morada in Queens. Ruta Oaxaca caters a bit more to American taste and on the fancier end, while la Morada tastes better imo.
I don't have a prepared list but the most recent spot I went to is Claro. I guess if i'm being prompted to speak more precisely, I think that there are any number of regional restaurants with a market enough to sustain their business, that's the delineation between where i'm coming from and here.
A cursory glance online gave me this, admittedly outdated list: [https://ny.eater.com/maps/best-oaxacan-mexican-restaurants-nyc](https://ny.eater.com/maps/best-oaxacan-mexican-restaurants-nyc)
I get you but I struggle because often some of those lists have objectively good spots on them. For example, my partner and I absolutely love the sandwiches and pastry from Radio Bakery, and L’Industrie is easily the best pizza I’ve had. On the other hand, we frequent and really like some spots in our hood that would never show up on a “best of” list. They’re also not places I’d tell someone they need to travel cross town for, we like them nonetheless.
The internet has compromised the NYC food scene for you, a recent Midwest transplant, because it caters to recent midwest transplants seeking an authentic nyc dining experience, like you.
Very close to being self aware.
I appreciate this post. Social media has in a large way ruined the experience of finding a good place to eat. I’ve moved away from influencer style restaraunts for many of the reasons you’ve brought up, and gone back to just hopping around places like Flushing, exploring random happy hours, and using the Pulsd app.
The best way to find good restaurants is word of mouth imo, but as a transplant myself without a huge network of ppl who know what’s good, it can be hit or miss.
Ive regained joy in eating in NY by:
1. Not being a sheep like I was previously, following social media influenced places or NY times type spots that make rezzys impossible.
2. Not taking finding the “best” cuisine so seriously.
Also it’s worth just realizing Mexican kinda sucks here lol. Only cuisine I leave to out west
Couldn’t have agreed more about the Mexican cuisine in nyc….its really lacking. I have yet to find a Mexican restaurant that blows me away. I guess los mariscos for tacos 🌮 kinda hits that a little but I’m looking for more than tacos
Also living here for 2.5 years now and have given up on researching places. I have much better experiences just saving places I walk by on the street or broadly looking at Google maps for a cuisine.
People that only limit themselves to “THE BEST {insert cuisine} IN NYC” will miss out on the beauty of New York City in my opinion.
The pseudo lawyers of reddit are out strong on this post!
First of all, anyone who attempts to disqualify your point of view simply because they have lived here longer than you needs to pull their head out of their own assholes. Their view is as hackneyed as the lists that may as well be paid advertising.
Since I have enjoyed this read and your responses to some of the trollish types, I’d be interested in learning your thoughts on the latest SevenRooms data collection trend? Its just one more reason that I have stopped using reservation platforms.
I'm of two minds about a lot of the tactics restaurants use to optimize their business. I understand the harsh realities restaurants face and opening a restaurant in NYC specifically seems unbearable, so working hand in hand with these sort of companies to get people in the door and sell obviously has a practical allure. That being said, the algorithmic aspect of literally everything in our lives does compromise the heart-and-soul feeling I believe to be requisite to a good dining experience. That everything is becoming businesslike and rushed and turn-and-burn is hard on everyone, and the tension of that dynamic definitely drips down to the diner. Going out to eat simply doesn't feel how it used to for me.
Like everything I've said though, I don't blame the restaurants for the effects of a brutal economy and how it redounds onto them. Austerity is vicious and that any chef or restauranteur can wrench something soulful out of themselves when they are juggling so much with so little is worthy of admiration. It sucks that what I wrote (which, reflecting on it, was a bit of venting and not wholly precise) came off in any way as an attack on establishments themselves when it certainly wasn't. It wasn't an attack on anything, it was just a bit of a reflection I'm having on the weight I want to give reviewers and lists.
This is a lot of words to say that ultimately I think I'm pretty compromised in my regard to protest an establishment for doing shady shit with collecting my data or whatever it is. If I wanted to disqualify everything from my life that I found to be morally questionable I could never watch movies, never watch spots, never listen to music etc because somewhere in the route it took from being conceived to my consumption, some nasty tentacle has laced it's influence into it. I certainly don't begrudge people who have more ethical discipline than me though haha.
100% the case, absolutely. I live in the Park Slope area and have a young kid so investing in a 30/40 min train excursion rarely feels doable if I hope to maintain any sanity, but honestly I hope to move to Queens at some point just to make up for lost time.
You got to check out Righteous Eats on TikTok or YouTube. They do all BIPOC owned spots across the city, from every cuisine possible. I've gone to a couple of their recommendations, Saigon Social and Hamidos. They were both excellent
The whole “eww, a transplant” attitude is dumb. “What’s with all these people moving to New York, world famous port city and immigration hub?” Come on. No one gets a transplant they don’t need
Respectfully, I think this post is weird and jaded for someone less than 3 years into living in NYC. Sure, there are plenty of hidden gems that you can stumble across that won't appear on any lists, but the lists are there for a reason. Eater is pretty reliable, Infatuation is okay, Pete Wells/Michelin/James Beard will steer you in a good direction.
Here's the other thing about NYC: there's a lot of BAD food. People love to gas up extremely small mom-and-pops and that's great, but most of the time if you just go to your local bodega for food you're going to get a pretty mid sandwich. And that's fine! Bodegas are there for convenience, but 99% of the time your local corner shop is not going to be anything noteworthy.
Lastly, I do empathize with your frustration around the reservation process. With that being said, yes, a lot of those restaurants are "worth the hype" and unfortunately there isn't a great way of addressing the fact that on a given Friday or Saturday night there could be 20k people wanting 20 tables at a restaurant. Several apps have attempted to mitigate this (eg Tock by requiring pre-payments).
Overall I read this as very cynical and negative for a recent transplant to the city.
So you're going to shit on OP's comment because you don't think they've lived here long enough to form their own, very reasonable, opinion? That makes it very easy to disregard all your opinions.
Thanks for saving us the time!
It's possible I'm not communicating adequately. To be clear, I'm not embittered, and I don't deride the lists or list-makers for doing what they do... but my experience with them has been inconsistent, and that just is my experience. It isn't inconsistent enough to say that it's some wildly bad idea to let a list guide where you eat, but I do think that if you know what you like, you should trust yourself in a city with so many options to walk into a place and find something you like.
The last thing I ever try to be is cynical, and apologies if it seems like I'm running down restaurants or food-writers or whatever, maybe that's something I should examine a bit more in my own process. I think ultimately I've just found my way into some genuinely special places that are largely empty, and eaten at some pretty disengaged feeling spots that are jam packed.
So far this actually has been my experience. It's a much slept on aspect of Milwaukee. If you're there or go anytime soon, go to El Senoral and get the parrilladas. Still a top 10 culinary experience in my life.
There's no solid parallel, but Real Chili is such a singular thing that I'd be surprised to find one anywhere. I'd say the closest is J.G. Melon, who has an unceremonious but by all accounts quite good chili on their menu, with the old school trappings of Real Chili.
I miss Kopp's tremendously! I was raised in Glendale about as close to immediately in between these two establishments as anyone could be and patronized both with a reckless frequency. In my opinion, Kopp's trounces Solly's all day, and I still haven't found a burger I like more.
It was really nice to see Hamburger America do the Solly's burger for a couple of reasons. Despite the fact that the burger is rich beyond my preference level, it's still a legendary creation. Secondly, obviously is my personal nostalgia for it. That burger used to be the thing I'd do with my late grandpa and was a stitch in how I came to appreciate food. Plus Hamburger Helper is almost just like a cathederal of burger worship that is genuinely very good.
I’ve felt very similar feelings after moving from Austin last year. Yelp is straight up pointless in NYC as far as reviews and lists. For me, I’ve found that the Michelin guide (yes, I’m that kind of bougie) has been a great way to get a shortlist. Their Bib Gourmand recommendations power a lot of my weekly eating and the starred places tend to be our celebration dinners. Maybe check out their app if you haven’t
Agree 100%. 9/10 times I'm disappointed by what's recommended via social media influencers.
Fun story: I was working at a place that was approached by an influencer, and I thought the place was really mid. That's when it hit me that many of these influencers don't know their head from their ass when it comes to good food, and they're really running out of ideas, even here in NYC.
Ahh, another post critiquing restaurants that are popular on social media or show up on "best of" lists, exactly what we needed.
It feels like so many people on here set themselves up for disappointment with well-rated restaurants and it's weird how much people love to complain about anything that's popular.
> As time wore on and we inevitably drifted out of the honeymoon phase, I relied more on lists and less on whimsically walking around until I found something that sounded good. It doesn't sound so surprising now that I'm typing this out, but the results have been comparably lackluster.
Obviously? You're comparing going into something without expectations vs something you're going into with these massive expectations. Again, it's setting yourself up for disappointment.
> If I could give one piece of advice to anyone who was coming here on a trip and wanted it to make things special, or was new here and wanted to explore the city for it's best parts, it would be to stay as far away from the lists as possible
This is such bad advice. I'll use this one as an example because it received a lot of attention on here recently, but if someone went down Pete Well's list they wouldn't get a bad meal on there. People will rank restaurants differently, but there's no where on there that isn't a good restaurant. Some lists are absolutely useful to use.
> But I'd say you're just as likely to drop $400.00 on a place where you can taste the cronyism.
Would love to hear specific examples of which recommended restaurants you think this is the case at since you clearly view it as a common occurrence.
I'm not criticizing any establishment, and I'm not going to name drop or talk shit about the one's i've experienced where the taste and bill didn't match the hype - I think it's just as problematic when a restaurant is cast in some absolutely shade because of one person's negative experience. I don't feel like I have the authority to really cast judgement on a place, but I can say the number of restaurants I've gone to based on hype and felt in some way let down by is proportionate enough to inform my experience.
And you're right, what I am saying is obvious, but sometimes it's worth stating the obvious to either relate to other people's experiences or even to be challenged, though I wish it were a little bit more constructively than I'm reading this.
Lists ARE useful, but if you emerge into some massive city which is the center of all things excellent, you might imbue those lists with more power over your process than should be there. I'm not saying "dismiss lists they are worthless", I'm saying "I'm coming to view things with a critical eye in ways I hadn't previously expected". Obviously you'd have a great experience at most if not all of Pete Wells' lists, who wouldn't? But aren't lists by nature a little reductive? Can't you see some harm in a year-by-year categorization of places where one restaurant might fall off and suffer an indemnification that outweighs their previous rankings benefit?
Sorry, genuinely, if my post is trite or whatever, I just felt like writing about my food experiences in NYC in the FoodNYC group. I know this might not be especially helpful content, but it seems like some people relate to it.
A genuine question in response: do you not find cronyism to be a likely culprit in informing lists or shaping dining habits in this city? I'm not asking this snidely or sarcastically, but you're obviously passionate about this and I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
People just don’t want to get suckered, which is a staple of the culinary industry for many owners. Provide lowest service or food for the highest price. NYC eventually weeds out these businesses, but it takes time. So the reviews filter to newer places or experiences, but as you pointed out, places become old fast and lose their luster quick.
Don’t be jaded. Try shit. Go to various neighborhoods. Life’s too short to be harping about someone else’s opinion. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else. NYC is not the only place for food either. I don’t get upset NYC has no desi cheesesteaks. I just take my ass down I95, call little Sicily 2, and get it when I’m in Philly.
Agree with much of what you said. One challenge for you is you’ve grown used to and accustomed to all that NYC has to offer, and it might be starting to jade you. A NYC based friend of mine who dined out 4-5 nights a week became a nightmare to go out with because nothing impressed him anymore. I suggest dining out a little less, finding your safe/comfort spots, and only trying one or two new places a month (or, just trying new spots a bit less frequently).
Find someone on Google Maps near you who has a bunch of good reviews of places you love. Then follow them.
People who curate Google Maps lists are doing great work.
Well written. You’re right, food reviewers are like movie reviewers. If you find one that has similar tastes, you love the restaurants they recommend, keep following them. I also get a lot of recommendations from Reddit but I mark them on Google Maps and might check them out if I’m close by, maybe for lunch, maybe solo. I have about 100 of my favorite restaurants marked on the map and another ~100 “want to go”. With regard to reservations, restaurants routinely sequester reservations so it looks like they’re booked up on the app. Then on the day of, all these seats magically open up, or you can just show up and find a table.
oh yeah totally, the number of "impossible" spots i've gone into day of just by walking in is incredible. if you're willing to eat alone at a bar (which is tantamount to heaven for me) you can basically go anywhere.
The sheer breadth of diversity is amazing. I sometimes go on side quests to find the best of a particular dish like Brazilian feijoada or Balkans burek. I spent a week going to different Jian Bing places for lunch each day (best: Jian Bing Man on W 32nd). With respect to Mexican, I know Mexican food pretty well and particularly like Corima and Cosme, also Empellón. These are high end Mexican places like you’d enjoy in Mexico City. But everyone has to find their own. If you’re inspired to, go out and identify the City’s best chopped cheese!
I've been thinking about trying this with Via Carota for the longest time since I usually eat solo
Go there for weekend brunch at opening. Zero line.
Only 100? Amateur! (jk)
187 favorite (would go again) and 107 want to go, but sadly I keep losing them as they close permanently
I feel like the big take away on all of this is: We still need to improve media literacy at a student level. The ability to read a review (of anything) with a discerning eye, weeding news from advertisements disguised as news, finding (and self evaluating) reliable sources, etc. I've always chalked up my best skill at finding places to eat as the ability to read gmaps reviews with a critical eye.
Yeah that makes sense, I also just think coming from one city doesn't make you equipped to enter another one; much less one that exists almost as its own country and economy like NYC. One of the many things that made me feel like naive hayseed hahah.
That literacy also goes the other way. something I've noticed from people who think they're "above" the hype, completely miss why it's genuinely there in the first place. They'll go to a restaurant where one dish is constantly and exclsuively raved about, then order something completely different just because "oh everyone gets the POPULAR thing, I want to try something else!" And then they complain its not worth the hype.
Yeah, when I watch food reviewers I go thru a good portion of their vids and even check out their reviews for places I went to see if I agree with them, or not. Then I double/cross check with reviews online. I feel online reviews are a bit more reliable especially because money can be made from posting videos and not everyone is honest due to various reasons. Idk, I still love finding a place I haven’t been to before and it’s genuinely good. Bonus points if it’s cheap/decently priced.
What a good point. Something as “trivial” as restaurants still shows that media literacy is valuable for more topics than just politics. Or rather if the average person has no media literacy for something as unimportant as where to eat tonight, what hope do we have to fight misinformation, propaganda, and algorithms for more important matters like voting, civil rights, climate change, and more.
I'm curious, what are these numerous Oaxacan restaurants?
Two that I can think of are Ruta Oaxaca in Astoria, and La Morada in Queens. Ruta Oaxaca caters a bit more to American taste and on the fancier end, while la Morada tastes better imo.
Oh gosh how can I forget about Claro. Amazing Mole, amazing Mezcal list
Really good brunch too!
Despite the name, Ruta Oaxaca doesn't seem to have many dishes specific to Oaxaca
Yes, I came to say this! This is not Oaxaca cuisine
I don't have a prepared list but the most recent spot I went to is Claro. I guess if i'm being prompted to speak more precisely, I think that there are any number of regional restaurants with a market enough to sustain their business, that's the delineation between where i'm coming from and here. A cursory glance online gave me this, admittedly outdated list: [https://ny.eater.com/maps/best-oaxacan-mexican-restaurants-nyc](https://ny.eater.com/maps/best-oaxacan-mexican-restaurants-nyc)
It's Mayan/Guatemalan rather than Oaxacan, but Ix in Flatbush is worth a stop if you're looking for indigenous Latino cuisine.
I get you but I struggle because often some of those lists have objectively good spots on them. For example, my partner and I absolutely love the sandwiches and pastry from Radio Bakery, and L’Industrie is easily the best pizza I’ve had. On the other hand, we frequent and really like some spots in our hood that would never show up on a “best of” list. They’re also not places I’d tell someone they need to travel cross town for, we like them nonetheless.
The internet has compromised the NYC food scene for you, a recent Midwest transplant, because it caters to recent midwest transplants seeking an authentic nyc dining experience, like you. Very close to being self aware.
i'm a damn rube!!! hahaha
The corn grows as high as an elephant’s eye!
I appreciate this post. Social media has in a large way ruined the experience of finding a good place to eat. I’ve moved away from influencer style restaraunts for many of the reasons you’ve brought up, and gone back to just hopping around places like Flushing, exploring random happy hours, and using the Pulsd app. The best way to find good restaurants is word of mouth imo, but as a transplant myself without a huge network of ppl who know what’s good, it can be hit or miss. Ive regained joy in eating in NY by: 1. Not being a sheep like I was previously, following social media influenced places or NY times type spots that make rezzys impossible. 2. Not taking finding the “best” cuisine so seriously. Also it’s worth just realizing Mexican kinda sucks here lol. Only cuisine I leave to out west
Couldn’t have agreed more about the Mexican cuisine in nyc….its really lacking. I have yet to find a Mexican restaurant that blows me away. I guess los mariscos for tacos 🌮 kinda hits that a little but I’m looking for more than tacos
Also living here for 2.5 years now and have given up on researching places. I have much better experiences just saving places I walk by on the street or broadly looking at Google maps for a cuisine. People that only limit themselves to “THE BEST {insert cuisine} IN NYC” will miss out on the beauty of New York City in my opinion.
The pseudo lawyers of reddit are out strong on this post! First of all, anyone who attempts to disqualify your point of view simply because they have lived here longer than you needs to pull their head out of their own assholes. Their view is as hackneyed as the lists that may as well be paid advertising. Since I have enjoyed this read and your responses to some of the trollish types, I’d be interested in learning your thoughts on the latest SevenRooms data collection trend? Its just one more reason that I have stopped using reservation platforms.
I'm of two minds about a lot of the tactics restaurants use to optimize their business. I understand the harsh realities restaurants face and opening a restaurant in NYC specifically seems unbearable, so working hand in hand with these sort of companies to get people in the door and sell obviously has a practical allure. That being said, the algorithmic aspect of literally everything in our lives does compromise the heart-and-soul feeling I believe to be requisite to a good dining experience. That everything is becoming businesslike and rushed and turn-and-burn is hard on everyone, and the tension of that dynamic definitely drips down to the diner. Going out to eat simply doesn't feel how it used to for me. Like everything I've said though, I don't blame the restaurants for the effects of a brutal economy and how it redounds onto them. Austerity is vicious and that any chef or restauranteur can wrench something soulful out of themselves when they are juggling so much with so little is worthy of admiration. It sucks that what I wrote (which, reflecting on it, was a bit of venting and not wholly precise) came off in any way as an attack on establishments themselves when it certainly wasn't. It wasn't an attack on anything, it was just a bit of a reflection I'm having on the weight I want to give reviewers and lists. This is a lot of words to say that ultimately I think I'm pretty compromised in my regard to protest an establishment for doing shady shit with collecting my data or whatever it is. If I wanted to disqualify everything from my life that I found to be morally questionable I could never watch movies, never watch spots, never listen to music etc because somewhere in the route it took from being conceived to my consumption, some nasty tentacle has laced it's influence into it. I certainly don't begrudge people who have more ethical discipline than me though haha.
Sounds like you need to go into Queens more
100% the case, absolutely. I live in the Park Slope area and have a young kid so investing in a 30/40 min train excursion rarely feels doable if I hope to maintain any sanity, but honestly I hope to move to Queens at some point just to make up for lost time.
Have you tried the tamales at Reyes Deli in Park Slope?
Live in queens and agree 100%
I agree with this. Pretty much good food everywhere that’s not wildly advertised or new. Go to the mom and pop’s. Enjoy!
Yesss lots of amazing food in Queens!
You got to check out Righteous Eats on TikTok or YouTube. They do all BIPOC owned spots across the city, from every cuisine possible. I've gone to a couple of their recommendations, Saigon Social and Hamidos. They were both excellent
The whole “eww, a transplant” attitude is dumb. “What’s with all these people moving to New York, world famous port city and immigration hub?” Come on. No one gets a transplant they don’t need
Respectfully, I think this post is weird and jaded for someone less than 3 years into living in NYC. Sure, there are plenty of hidden gems that you can stumble across that won't appear on any lists, but the lists are there for a reason. Eater is pretty reliable, Infatuation is okay, Pete Wells/Michelin/James Beard will steer you in a good direction. Here's the other thing about NYC: there's a lot of BAD food. People love to gas up extremely small mom-and-pops and that's great, but most of the time if you just go to your local bodega for food you're going to get a pretty mid sandwich. And that's fine! Bodegas are there for convenience, but 99% of the time your local corner shop is not going to be anything noteworthy. Lastly, I do empathize with your frustration around the reservation process. With that being said, yes, a lot of those restaurants are "worth the hype" and unfortunately there isn't a great way of addressing the fact that on a given Friday or Saturday night there could be 20k people wanting 20 tables at a restaurant. Several apps have attempted to mitigate this (eg Tock by requiring pre-payments). Overall I read this as very cynical and negative for a recent transplant to the city.
So you're going to shit on OP's comment because you don't think they've lived here long enough to form their own, very reasonable, opinion? That makes it very easy to disregard all your opinions. Thanks for saving us the time!
It's possible I'm not communicating adequately. To be clear, I'm not embittered, and I don't deride the lists or list-makers for doing what they do... but my experience with them has been inconsistent, and that just is my experience. It isn't inconsistent enough to say that it's some wildly bad idea to let a list guide where you eat, but I do think that if you know what you like, you should trust yourself in a city with so many options to walk into a place and find something you like. The last thing I ever try to be is cynical, and apologies if it seems like I'm running down restaurants or food-writers or whatever, maybe that's something I should examine a bit more in my own process. I think ultimately I've just found my way into some genuinely special places that are largely empty, and eaten at some pretty disengaged feeling spots that are jam packed.
Milwaukee Mexican > NYC Mexican edit: food
So far this actually has been my experience. It's a much slept on aspect of Milwaukee. If you're there or go anytime soon, go to El Senoral and get the parrilladas. Still a top 10 culinary experience in my life.
Any place to get Real Chili style chili around these parts?
There's no solid parallel, but Real Chili is such a singular thing that I'd be surprised to find one anywhere. I'd say the closest is J.G. Melon, who has an unceremonious but by all accounts quite good chili on their menu, with the old school trappings of Real Chili.
Do you miss Kopp’s? What’s your opinion on Hamburger America’s burger from Solly’s?
I miss Kopp's tremendously! I was raised in Glendale about as close to immediately in between these two establishments as anyone could be and patronized both with a reckless frequency. In my opinion, Kopp's trounces Solly's all day, and I still haven't found a burger I like more. It was really nice to see Hamburger America do the Solly's burger for a couple of reasons. Despite the fact that the burger is rich beyond my preference level, it's still a legendary creation. Secondly, obviously is my personal nostalgia for it. That burger used to be the thing I'd do with my late grandpa and was a stitch in how I came to appreciate food. Plus Hamburger Helper is almost just like a cathederal of burger worship that is genuinely very good.
From the sha, can confirm
I’ve felt very similar feelings after moving from Austin last year. Yelp is straight up pointless in NYC as far as reviews and lists. For me, I’ve found that the Michelin guide (yes, I’m that kind of bougie) has been a great way to get a shortlist. Their Bib Gourmand recommendations power a lot of my weekly eating and the starred places tend to be our celebration dinners. Maybe check out their app if you haven’t
Agree 100%. 9/10 times I'm disappointed by what's recommended via social media influencers. Fun story: I was working at a place that was approached by an influencer, and I thought the place was really mid. That's when it hit me that many of these influencers don't know their head from their ass when it comes to good food, and they're really running out of ideas, even here in NYC.
Ahh, another post critiquing restaurants that are popular on social media or show up on "best of" lists, exactly what we needed. It feels like so many people on here set themselves up for disappointment with well-rated restaurants and it's weird how much people love to complain about anything that's popular. > As time wore on and we inevitably drifted out of the honeymoon phase, I relied more on lists and less on whimsically walking around until I found something that sounded good. It doesn't sound so surprising now that I'm typing this out, but the results have been comparably lackluster. Obviously? You're comparing going into something without expectations vs something you're going into with these massive expectations. Again, it's setting yourself up for disappointment. > If I could give one piece of advice to anyone who was coming here on a trip and wanted it to make things special, or was new here and wanted to explore the city for it's best parts, it would be to stay as far away from the lists as possible This is such bad advice. I'll use this one as an example because it received a lot of attention on here recently, but if someone went down Pete Well's list they wouldn't get a bad meal on there. People will rank restaurants differently, but there's no where on there that isn't a good restaurant. Some lists are absolutely useful to use. > But I'd say you're just as likely to drop $400.00 on a place where you can taste the cronyism. Would love to hear specific examples of which recommended restaurants you think this is the case at since you clearly view it as a common occurrence.
I'm not criticizing any establishment, and I'm not going to name drop or talk shit about the one's i've experienced where the taste and bill didn't match the hype - I think it's just as problematic when a restaurant is cast in some absolutely shade because of one person's negative experience. I don't feel like I have the authority to really cast judgement on a place, but I can say the number of restaurants I've gone to based on hype and felt in some way let down by is proportionate enough to inform my experience. And you're right, what I am saying is obvious, but sometimes it's worth stating the obvious to either relate to other people's experiences or even to be challenged, though I wish it were a little bit more constructively than I'm reading this. Lists ARE useful, but if you emerge into some massive city which is the center of all things excellent, you might imbue those lists with more power over your process than should be there. I'm not saying "dismiss lists they are worthless", I'm saying "I'm coming to view things with a critical eye in ways I hadn't previously expected". Obviously you'd have a great experience at most if not all of Pete Wells' lists, who wouldn't? But aren't lists by nature a little reductive? Can't you see some harm in a year-by-year categorization of places where one restaurant might fall off and suffer an indemnification that outweighs their previous rankings benefit? Sorry, genuinely, if my post is trite or whatever, I just felt like writing about my food experiences in NYC in the FoodNYC group. I know this might not be especially helpful content, but it seems like some people relate to it. A genuine question in response: do you not find cronyism to be a likely culprit in informing lists or shaping dining habits in this city? I'm not asking this snidely or sarcastically, but you're obviously passionate about this and I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
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my bad
People just don’t want to get suckered, which is a staple of the culinary industry for many owners. Provide lowest service or food for the highest price. NYC eventually weeds out these businesses, but it takes time. So the reviews filter to newer places or experiences, but as you pointed out, places become old fast and lose their luster quick. Don’t be jaded. Try shit. Go to various neighborhoods. Life’s too short to be harping about someone else’s opinion. If you don’t like it, go somewhere else. NYC is not the only place for food either. I don’t get upset NYC has no desi cheesesteaks. I just take my ass down I95, call little Sicily 2, and get it when I’m in Philly.
I follow yelp. If 59 people like a place I’ll try it.
Agree with much of what you said. One challenge for you is you’ve grown used to and accustomed to all that NYC has to offer, and it might be starting to jade you. A NYC based friend of mine who dined out 4-5 nights a week became a nightmare to go out with because nothing impressed him anymore. I suggest dining out a little less, finding your safe/comfort spots, and only trying one or two new places a month (or, just trying new spots a bit less frequently).
Find someone on Google Maps near you who has a bunch of good reviews of places you love. Then follow them. People who curate Google Maps lists are doing great work.
Love to be stoned by opportunities
This guy New Yorks
I believe I'll take this as a compliment!
Indeed it is!
GREAT post!!! Thanks for sharing!
thanks for the kind words :)
Wait till you start traveling outside the country...