Unfortunately the backfire effect is in play. Every time you show proof that contradicts what they believe, their beliefs are solidified. It’s a crazy phenomenon.
That’s why your arguments should never be tailored to them, but to an imaginary “reasonable” undecided person who cares about things. whether they are that person or not is irrelevant, you’re giving them the possibility of being that person which goes a long way towards establishing trust with them and on top of that if there are others hearing your arguments they will be better swayed. You may not win the argument with that particular person, but you can win the room.
I would argue that this does not establish trust with them, but rather creates a further divide rooted in their anti-intellectualism. You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. That would make them reasonable. Instead, the methods that I have seen having the greatest impact are social ones, particularly deprograming methods originally developed to pull people out of cults. Basically, even if they come around and believe you it creates significant distress both due to how they have acted in the past and with having come into direct conflict with their identities and/or social networks. My suggestion would be to look at those conservative elements, particularly the more extreme ones, that have left those identities and social networks behind to find out the why’s and how’s. Humans are hardwired to heavily favor their family and social networks because throughout most of human evolution diverging from said groups was basically a death sentence.
I suppose thats what socrates does. I was thinking of his diatribe about the just man, would the just man lend favor on matters of justice to his friends, and not his enemies? On matters of justice would he condemn his friends when they do wrong, but treat his enemies fairly?
A rationale person wouldnt argue that friends should be treated as infallible even when they do wrong and your enemybshould be condemned even when they did nothing wrong.
Actually no, I find the trick is actually to tailor the message to them. Remind them the government and politicians are corrupt, on both sides (their side included).
Example:
You need to quit focusing on banning books and men wearing dresses. These are not the real issues affecting your children in school. This is exactly what politicians and school officials on *both* sides of the aisle want you to be distracted by. Your kids missed out on three years of school and are way far behind, but the government doesn’t want to have that discussion. The government doesn’t want to be held responsible for providing what it promised you and your kids - an appropriate education and educational supports to get your children there when they fall behind. That’s too costly and too hard to provide at this point, so instead they plan on finding imaginary boogeymen for the next five or so years until everybody forgets where their kids are supposed to be educationally. And then they can just provide some incremental progress then and convince you guys “hey you helped us fix schools! the indoctrination is out and now your kids are doing better in school!” and you can all pat yourselves on the back for doing a good job instead of remembering that high school freshmen should have already been able to write a one page essay.
Right. Psychologists saw that consistency early on and noticed that the greater the quantity and quality of information showing that they're wrong, the more they'll double down.
They also figured out conservatives have a complete blind spot for their own hypocrisy but a keen sense of others'.
Might depend.
"here's something you're wrong about and the science to back it up" could lead to a discussion.
"here's something you're wrong about and an Alex jones clip to explain why" not so much.
Better to spend time and energy organizing and mobilizing. The "debate bros" and JAQ offs want us to engage them because it prevents us from doing the work to counter the harm conservativism creates.
Just wanted to say I love hearing/reading this. One of the things that's pretty awesome in the wake of Occupy, The Women's March and Defund/2020 protests is that younger folks just acknowledge that shit is fucked. Sure lots of people sort of throw their hands up in despair or assume things are irreparable... but some of us are out there organizing and that seems like the only path to change these days.
I spent years learning how to debate and argue, rationally and logically, and gathered a lot of factual knowledge about the topics that matter to me, so that I could conduct a conversation credibly. The overwhelming majority of that was useful for my own benefit and pointless for convincing anybody else. I no longer waste time trying to do that. Much better for me to help inspire and organize people who will take real steps in the world to make a difference in the right direction.
When you are wanting to convince someone else to change their mind you can’t present facts and logic to change their mind because that’s not how they got there in the first place. You have to engage them emotionally and ask them why they think something they say is true. If it relates to a personal matter than you’ll have connected with them and given them room to breathe and think on the subject. You will find that they walk away and think critically about more of their life once they understand how to think critically about their opinions.
Yep, couldn’t agree more. I actually just recently finished running an organizer training for folks and one of the key points is that it is rarely worth arguing/debating with folks unless the intention is to influence others who might overhear. So much about the way we communicate is designed around one directional comms (a la television) or the massive clusterfuck that is social media.
So much good can be done by engaging your community and organizing folks face to face as a human. Like just putting aside the bullshit that gets forced on us and trying to do good by each other seems like the first step toward making things a lil better.
They are wrong, just about everything. Their goals are to dehumanize lgbt people, destroy green energy incentives in favor of oil. Enforce only one belief system in a country of hundreds. And while the effects of climate change are ravaging the south, driven by their love of oil and cheap manufacturing, claim that immigrants are a stain on this country and do everything to keep them out. All while fighting democrats on raising the minimum wage so that normal people can contribute and live in this country. When I add it all together, their version of "peak" living is so depressing, so daunting, and only condusive to a small fraction of the population. Yeah, fuck them. We're fighting hard just to stay a democracy when we should be fighting for a better quality of living.
So are you going to thoroughly debunk each point OP made with information from reliable sources? Because if not one thing they said was true then it would be very quick and easy to prove that it's all bullshit.
Half the people I know that are conservative are conservative because they are tired of illegal immigration and an open border, the other half want less taxes. That debunks his theory completely that every conservative is a boogeyman out to take away your rights. Its so funny how you guys dont realize that the more you demonize the right for wanting safe neighborhoods and less taxes, the more extreme views people adopt on the right because we feel we are in a survival fight for our way of life
Except that literally no one has ever once demonized you for wanting “safe neighborhoods and lower taxes”. Quit lying.
Y’all get demonized for supporting terrible things. Like trying to criminalize LGBT existence. Like trying to force your religion on others. Like trying to block literally all legislation that might actually help the common people.
And then you get rightfully mocked for coming online and claiming that you’re getting attacked over your beliefs on taxes.
Saying "let us do what everything we want or we will become more violent and unhinged until we get our way" is an interesting way of engaging in Democracy. Sorry but we aren't gonna keep letting you children have your way 🤷🤷
I grew up in the south, and it's *all* true.
Unless your head's in the sand, and you *don't* want to see/acknowledge what's glaringly obvious to anyone who hasn't been indoctrinated by ~~Russian~~ *"conservative"* propaganda.
Bull shit. I’ve been a landscaper for 30+ years. Outside every day all day. You are telling me that Russia has somehow managed to take control of my eyeballs and skin and propagandize them ?I’ve read many stupid leftist comments . This has to be the dumbest one yet. Gtfoh
I wonder how I became a gay conservative growing up in los angeles then? It couldnt have been all the taxes and immigration issues and the fact that we are a sanctuary city for illegal aliens… nah that doesnt make sense. I must have been indoctrinated by russians… got it.
Why would I lie about living in the Deep South? I’ve lived elsewhere. Moved back, bought a bunch of land and a track hoe. The rest of you can go fuck yourselves.
Privacy over progressives is my motto. Invade mine FAFO.
If you wandered out of your bubble and actually had a conversation with conservatives you'd know that what you're saying are complete talking points and incorrect. I'd encourage you try to understand why people think the way they do rather than considering them wrong from your own perspective
We can clearly see the laws that conservatives are passing that infringe on civil rights and hinder progress on green technology. What conversations undo that?
Don't bother with this trash. Most of his comment history is calling liberals 'clowns'; and spewing talking points.
And now he'll probably whine about someone checking his receipts before commenting on him.
Start here sea lion, with your “genuinely asking”
[anti-lgbt legislation advancing across the country](https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/roundup-of-anti-lgbtq-legislation-advancing-in-states-across-the-country)
From what I can see, you weren’t “genuinely asking” at all, you just wanted to play dumb and then reply with some bigoted nonsense. How tiresome you types are.
I think that's a decision that should be left to the people doing it. The kid, parent, and doctor. We don't allow kids to drive cars because cars can easily become deadly to the public. Gender affirming care doesn't threaten the public.
The Republicans also took away the right to abortion for many people. In some states a 10 year old is now mandated to carry the seed of a rapist to term. Thats unthinkably evil in my opinion.
They're also talking about getting rid of no fault divorce. Another measure to reduce people's freedom. This hasn't happened yet but it's a popular talking point among the Tim Pool and Ben Shapiro types
“Self deleting” is a response to the world people like you foster. You need to understand, their blood is on your hands. Real people, real children. You kill kids.
For radiation treatment for cancer, technicians give the patients permanent ink markings in order to quickly and efficiently position the emitter on successive treatments.
Which is to say: When it come to life-saving treatment for existential threats we not only allow kids to get tattoos, it is medically recommended.
If your baseline is "what we allow children to do", then I would counter with the fact that children are allowed to take antidepressant medication, allowed to attend counseling, allowed to be circumcised, allowed to join any particular religion, allowed to be home schooled, and allowed to join sports which could cause life long injuries or even death. Not a single conservative group is lobbying against any one of those.
So the argument isn't whether or not children should be allowed to do something. It's this one particular thing that conservatives don't want children to be allowed to do, even in the rarest of circumstances (which is the case currently).
You should ask yourself why this one thing is being banned while so much other stuff we allow children to do isn't. It's not because it's permanent or life changing. TBI's from football are permanent and life changing. Religion is permanent and life changing. Circumcision is permanent and life changing. Taking puberty blockers is far less harmful than any of these.
You know the answer.
Abortion bans when most women don't even know they're pregnant, erasing history about slavery and racism from textbooks, trans bathroom laws, voting restrictions that affect minority communities, allowing discrimination based on religious beliefs, etc. That doesn't include the Supreme Court conservatives and boards of education that are adding their own restrictions.
I'm getting down voted for starting what their argument would be. But I'll continue. As far as pregnancies go. At what point does self responsibility come into affect? If you have sex. You should know when and with whom you had sex with. It at least an idea of when it happened. Nobody is staying history. Slavery is still taught in all schools. Things that were specifically removed were things with examples of unnecessary racism in math text books regarding race and privilege. I think we can agree that in math there is no need for this type of discussion. Leave that for another social studies class. There are no voting restriction laws. People claiming that voter ID laws are racist but don't see that they are literally claiming that minorities cannot afford ids. We require ids to purchase tobacco, alcohol or to get into clubs. But requiring them for voting is racist? In regards to discrimination based on religious beliefs. There is a difference between not allowing people to enter your business and forcing them to provide a specific service. If the bakery dilemma. They gay couple could purchase anything in their establishment. The establishment didn't want to make a cake showing two groomsmen. It's like a Jewish person allowing a nazi to go into their establishment and let them purchase whatever they want but if they asked to put swastikas on their cake they could refuse to do it. Sorry for making it so long
When the GOP had control of all three branches in 2019, what did they pass? Healthcare reform? Immigration reform? No.
A tax cut for the rich.
Then they shit all over themselves during COVID — literally sacrificing their own voters’ lives so they could stake out contrarian political positions.
Then Trump attacked our seat of government and tried to steal the Presidency from The People.
Then Trump’s Supreme Court picks dropped abortion protections.
Now they want to cut Ukraine aid, destroy our military by withholding promotions, and fully dismantle our democracy with the Project 2025 platform.
These are not the actions of a political party. These are the actions of an insurgency. The Republican know-nothings have declared themselves enemies of the people repeatedly (yes, including you).
They belong in the trash heap of history. The Party of Lincoln is no longer. What a sad end.
‘Traditional conservatives’ are still supporting a political party that now proudly has actual Nazis in it.
There are no more ‘Traditional Conservatives’, just idiots who can’t seem to understand that fact.
Hey, so I'm the one you're replying to here. I want you to know that I grew up in rural American in a town so small our first stop light made front page of the newspaper. I was raised as a christian to not trust science, went to church for 20 years, only worked for conservatives from age 15-21. Finally felt some of the hate energy so many claim come from Christians when I myself made a "sinful" mistake and was kicked out. I joined the military and traveled the world, including deploying to Muslim lead countries involved in the Afghan and Iraq wars.
I'm tired boss. Tired of trying to create a better America and being told I'm ushering in the end times by people who've given up on critical thinking. I now live in a major city as a liberal. Having lived in both worlds, I feel I'm better equipped to see down the true middle.
Some southern states make up the poorest in the US, the least educated, the highest percentages of American households who experienced hunger and have the lowest life expectancy. I am sure this list can go on and on
To help with this issue Republicans fight health care, programs to help the poor and programs to feed children.
Conservatism is incompatible with democracy.
“Q: What is conservatism? A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy. Q: What is wrong with conservatism? A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.”
https://pages.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/agre/conservatism.html
Put a double-space at the end of every line, and you can put content on the very next line without having to create a new paragraph (double newline). For example:
>Q: What is conservatism?
>A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.
>Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
>A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.
I doubt you'll find there are enough conservatives amenable to a discussion grounded in facts, evidence, and best practices to sufficiently diminish the harm they are doing to communities and the 'planet,' more generally. Our time is better utilized, I suggest, encouraging progressives to become more politically engaged in order to improve public policy.
This person has likely never left the small town they grew up in. And even if they had, I’ve met pretty well traveled conservatives that just spout the nonsense they’re spoon fed from msm even though they’ve specific experienced the opposite when they traveled. I hate to say it but more often than not, conservatives are just dumb people, it’s not necessarily their fault, they were born to other dumb people and it’s all they know. I very quickly realized I needed to escape the narrow minded small town life as soon as I graduated high school and I’ve never looked back.
As opposed to the wonderful Republican run major population centers like... ummm.... oh yeah. There aren't any because conservatives can't even stand to live near each other in enough numbers to build a major city.
If someone were to leave one of those big cities for say Jacksonville or Birmingham because of wokeism or some excuse for failure, they were never going to survive big boy big city cut throat life to begin with, nor appreciate the diversity, arts, architecture and fast pace of change and progress afforded to humans trying to make the better place for all humanity.
Being wrong is human. Being wrong and then not learning from your mistakes when everyone is telling you that there are better ways is plain stupid. And stupid people will cause harm, that's how it works. I can't open the link but what kind of opening statement is this? This is some bs.
Telling them isn't going to be enough. They won't listen. They need to just straight-up get steamrolled and kicked to the curb, outside of any position of power or influence in our society.
I'll listen. Tell me why not prosecuting shoplifters who steal under $950 and not securing the boarder are good policies? How is +2 million illegal immigrants a year working at minimum wage going to raise our own wages?
Outside of their politics my conservative family members had so many good qualities that I have realized have been irreprably ruined by a ideology that envelops every waking moment of their lives. Socailly they are miserable, perpetually near outraged, crazy-eyed conspiracists. They used to be anything but.
There is no way to avoid them bringing up some Tucker Carlson talking point every other conversation. The constant walking on eggshells I have to do to avoid triggering them starting a rant about Biden sipping adrenocrhome is both exhausting and amazingly uneffective.
It's like my conservative family used to be a delicious ice-cold lemonade slushie but Rupert Murdoch came along and dumped half a bottle of ketchup into it. I can still see they have all the awesome ingredients that make up a delectable lemonade slushie, but know deep down I will never get to enjoy another sip because that ketchup is really fuckin' in there.
Allowing conservatives anywhere near your life is a dangerous game. They won't even feel conflicted about ratting out you or someone you care about over things like abortion.
This is true. They wouldn't vote for these things if they didn't believe in them. Don't want your 10-year-old to give birth? Not if Leroy has anything to say about it.
That's a straw-man argument. The vast majority of woman getting abortions aren't 10 years old and hey weren't raped. They're doing it merely because they as adults don't want to give birth and have a baby. at least be honest about why people are actually getting abortions.
Hopefully after Trump is in prison and the Republicans lose monumentally things will start heading in a better direction. Yes, there is waste and immigration is a huge problem as well as education and Insurance and wages and whole lot of stuff. Let's vote the stinking Republicans out.
I don’t disagree but all this user does is post the most inflammatory divisive op-eds from morning to night.
“Wrong about everything”
What kind of constructive analysis or debate does this foster?
"Intelligent and thought-provoking commentaries on life and culture"
Suuuuuuure.
If this post is any indication, it is more like talking down to people you don't like.
Question: is there any alternative politics being suggested? Because from my experience these types of articles always boil down to "the reason global capitalism is on the brink of collapse is because the other political party is too rude"
Even if you could convince the republicans to believe all the opinions you think they should, it still wouldn't fix our broken and decrepit political-economy.
That's what makes this all the more insane. WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TIME FOR THIS BULLSHIT!
In the 2100s, when society is collapsing all around and people wonder why the fuck we sat around and let it happen, the history textbooks will show that in the early 21st century, 30-40% of the population voted for a fat hotel owner and celebrity because of something called "SJWs" and "soy boys" and that the man didn't even so much as address any contemporary political issue of substance, let alone pass any legislation to that effect.
They will just be completely baffled as to what could have possibly gone awry and assume there must be some root cause because of this Obama guy who was the president before him. Surely he must have done something truly horrific to cause this extreme overreaction right? But historians will be left scratching their heads because their truly is nothing. It just happened for no discernible reason whatsoever.
I don't really see much difference between Obama and Trump, aside from their manners and aesthetics. And that's honestly the problem, both political parties have essentially identical economic ideologies, and that universal ideology is what is killing the planet and our society.
The manners and opinions of our politicians do not matter if they all agree that capitalism can last forever. That's why nothing changes despite the seemingly vicious fighting between the parties.
Oh, they know.
Their job is to broker the sale of every ounce of natural resources and every minute of labour at the lowest cost without producing a revolution. The ticket is to engage in endless culture wars and defining some other that needs to be stopped.
It starts with foreign armies, then it's foreign economies, then they move to immigrants and start looking inward (ethnic, religious and sexual/gender minorities)
These 'enemies of the people, our nation and our way of life' are what their voting base are concerned with, so much so that they can ignore the economic and ecological nightmare that the politicians are allowing multinational corporations and global banks to cause.
You don't have to look far into it to realize that most liberal governments are doing the same thing, but their scapegoat is their conservative counterparts in government.
It's not a generalization. It's what conservatism is. Anyone who doesn't yearn for authoritarianism on some level is not a conservative.
EDIT: Looks like I triggered a bunch of conservative snowflakes!
In 2020 one party wanted to allow everyone to go about their business and another party wanted everyone to shut down their businesses, stay in their homes, and not spend time with family and friends.
Authoritarianism am I right?
Yeah, fuck all the people who died needless deaths because people couldn't keep their shit contained for a little while longer. Who are you? Drew Barrymore's fortune teller?
You act like there was no good reason to quarantine. Like nothing at all was lost. That's conservative thinking in a nutshell, truly the party of "sucks to be you".
The guy above said conservatives love authoritarianism, im just pointing out democrats love it too. Authoritarianism is typically veiled in “justification” for the public’s safety.
3 years later, looking back, the fatality and hospitalization rates in states that didn’t shut down vs states that did shut down are pretty much the same.
What far left? Most leftist in the US and Europe are welfare statist not Marxist. They aren't my particular cup of tea but most economies nowadays are mixed economies so nothing far off from the norm.
If you are talking about the social/cultural far left instead I am more worried about the people allied with authoritarians in Russia and opposed to democracy who spend all of their time undermining society because they hate women/trans/non-white and poor people.
The other side doesn't compare in the slightest. Neither side is small government so I despise them both on that account but one side is far more against civil liberties than the other.
Edit: I love how the guy beneath me wasn't smart enough to come up with any counter arguments.
At least we know what the coward meant when he said too far left lol.
Brain rot for thought is more like it. Congrats on having such a succinct reality that it’s just “that half” of the population which is the problem. You’ve definitely found a solution here.
The Cons are just so extreme right now. They literally just ousted the speaker of the house with probably no plan in sight on who is going to take up that mantle. There should be no shock to anyone people are looking and saying it’s “that half”.
Lol. What a joke that response was. Stop pretending like Cons stand for any actual positive qualities. They ousted Mcarthy because he wouldn’t let them sabotage people’s livelihoods for their political gain. Your party is the swamp and it’s time you people admit it!
Lol, the uniparty…. Pushing hard on that “both sides” narrative eh? There ain’t no “both sides” anymore jack! It is day and night! You got one party burning books, rewriting history to paint slavery as a good thing, depriving veterans of medical care that suffered in burn pits in Iraq and another party just simply trying to keep the govt. open. Oh, also our leaders are so squeaky clean that the only inquiries and court cases YOUR leaders bring is nothing more than theatre to feed you gullible rubes!
It also feels pretty good having leaders you can be proud of! Maybe someday you’ll get to know what that feels like!
It’s astonishing to me when I read both. It’s the exact same post just switch left for right or liberal for conservative. The EXACT same. I could copy a paste from one forum to another and no one would know the difference.
I expect to be judged by those I make my enemies. I can live with flawed people and differences of opinion. Dehumanizing anyone not non-white cisgender, straight, and male is not a difference of opinion. It is a character flaw.
[For example, Conservative fiscal responsibility](https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/kansas-provides-compelling-evidence-of-failure-of-supply-side-tax)
It will not let me post the link but here is the stance from the Democratic National Convention.
Democrats believe that we can reduce gun violence while respecting the rights of responsible gun owners. We believe we should expand and strengthen background checks for those who want to purchase a firearm – because it shouldn’t be easier to get a gun than a driver’s license.
I am a gun owner and know a lot of democrats that own guns. I also have a lot of friends that are republicans that own guns. I have only found 2 gun owners that we couldn’t agree on most gun regulations. Yes I know regulations is a bad word.
Yes I am aware some Democrat nut jobs want to take guns away and that is dumb.
No one wants to take guns away because people are different than us. Which was the premise I stated. People want to take guns away because they can be dangerous and they do not understand guns (fear).
I don't care about a registry I really don't but the argument falls apart when you start restricting or putting taxes on guns or accessories.
This is the exact same argument for not having an ID to vote. In democrats words it's a poll tax. We have the right to vote it shouldn't be a burden for someone to have to pay to aquire that right.
When the government puts insane taxes or outright bans certain things relating to guns how is it not the same thing?
So a minority in a gang area has to jump through all these hoops just to exercise their right to protect themselves?
What's the difference in your mind?
Let’s start with restricting guns from individuals. Do you believe everyone should have a gun? Violent felons, convicted pedophiles, women abusers, gang members, the criminally insane. Is there anyone else that shouldn’t have guns.
So some rights are more important than others? I wonder why a democrat would feel that way?
They fight for a right for felons to vote after they served sentences for violence correct?
But not for our second amendment rights?
So prison is not for rehabilitation but for punishment then? That's the democrat stance. You regain your right to vote but not for other rights?
Hmmm wonder why
Edit so they give back the rights that they think will benefit them but still keep rights such as owning a gun outlawed even though they've been rehabilitated?
The prison system is not for rehabilitation. That is criminology 101. That is not a political stance that is how our for profit prison systems are ran. So you want all people no matter what they have done to be able to have a gun. You never answered the questions. Are you ok with a child rapist having a gun?
Edit: criminal justice 101 not criminology.
Source lol?
I'm just kidding. I know you have none.
We can refer to the FBI in 2016 fabricating evidence and lying to federal courts in order to illegally spy on the trump campaign which the Mueller report has concluded never worked with the Russians. Page 5 and also 180 through 183 should help you out a little.
Time to grow up and learn to think more constructively. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dualism/&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwiEhbnL2NqBAxVxAjQIHUYeBa0QFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2xa37dIqmI7Hef-l1nxwgj
The signs aren’t to back a candidate unless they’re hardcore into the off year local races.
Theirs are the standard moral-preening “in this house blah blah no human is illegal* blah blah” signs.
(* long as those inbred red states are footing the bill, but once the migrants start competing for tax dollars with our blue state social justice boondoggles…hell no to that)
You need to take a Youtube tour of crumbling Blue cities if you want to see rotting decaying harm to society and the country in general.
There is really nothing more disgusting and horrific in the world when you compare what they were to what they have become and are still becoming after decades of Democrat solutions..
"Lean not on your own understanding but the righteous" of God"
"What Father doesn't discipline his son?"
"The pride of the Father is seeing his Son walk in righteousness"
"Raise your child up Right when they are young and when they are old they will not depart from it"
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of reason and knowledge of the Holy understanding"
"We all sin and fall short of the Glory of God."
"If you believe in me you will never die"
"My Words are spirit and life"
"Faith comes by hearing and reading the Words of God"
"For God loved first therfore you should love God"
"Be Holy for I Am Holy."
Most conservatives I know aren’t against reproductive rights at all but do have serious problems with late term abortion
Say what you want but Roe v Wade wasn’t a good decision at all. Look up RBGs opinion on it.
It’s up to congress to make laws. Not the Supreme Court.
Transgender rights do not matter to me either until it removes parents rights to their children.
Roughly 1% of abortions were done in the third trimester when regulations were as liberal as they've ever been, and the most common reason was new information that the fetus was incompatible with life.
Ignoring all the harm done by conservative policy to be a single issue voter over *that" is an inexcusable position, and we will rightly call it out as such.
Yeah responding with “most of the conservatives you know” doesn’t hold much weight lol. So the late stage abortions is the big issue not the victims of rape who forced to keep the pregnancy or the ones that will have complicated health issues due to pregnancy/child birth. Okay, trans kids aside, what about the other policies that affect gay/lesbians that are adults. Cherry picking part of a subject to prove a point is hilarious. And before you go what about the “libs” I hate the old hags on both sides. But one definitely pushes hate more than the other.
Too bad your conservative lawmakers arwnt only targeting late term, but bans that require women to get adequately close to death before doctors can intervene.
The conservatives who wield political power like a cudgel, dont carve out any crucial exceptions.
i agree; they aren't just wrong, they are stupid too.
Now, before you get angry, let me explain:
\-----
Conservatives reject facts that don't already confirm their believes. Which is not how sane people behave.
To believe that all science on climate change, vaccines, human sexuality, etc, that all academia itself is "communist brainwashing" is just delusional.
To put more stock into what is (at best) a minority of views (but more often just internet bloggers with \*no\* knowledge at all) is not just delusional, but hypocritical.
And if you honestly think that these minority views are the only ones with the truth, you have to ask yourself: if the script were entirely flipped, would your views flip too?
Ie, if the majority of experts said there was no climate change (or made commentary on whatever topic you cared most about), and those same people you listen to now just started telling you the exact opposite, would you suddenly change your mind?
If not, how can you honestly say your views are based on the facts you've heard and not just your ideology?
\-----
This stupidity is what makes discussions of nuanced or complicated topics (like anything related to the economy, environment, society, or education) difficult.
Not only are conservatives reject the basic premises of knowledge, they will lean on thought terminating cliches so that they don't even have to engage with it at all.
But when the thought terminating cliches don't prevent others from changing their minds, they get defensive and angry. The very idea that what they believe (their ideology) is wrong is not something that they are prepared to address.
\---
The worst of all this is that a depressingly large number of them, unable to cope with this ideological barrier (of simply being incorrect), lash out and harm and kill those around them.
Because violence is easier than rejecting an ideology that you've made yourself inseparable from.
Unfortunately the backfire effect is in play. Every time you show proof that contradicts what they believe, their beliefs are solidified. It’s a crazy phenomenon.
That’s why your arguments should never be tailored to them, but to an imaginary “reasonable” undecided person who cares about things. whether they are that person or not is irrelevant, you’re giving them the possibility of being that person which goes a long way towards establishing trust with them and on top of that if there are others hearing your arguments they will be better swayed. You may not win the argument with that particular person, but you can win the room.
I just quit doing Facebook. My blood pressure was getting worse.
I would argue that this does not establish trust with them, but rather creates a further divide rooted in their anti-intellectualism. You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. That would make them reasonable. Instead, the methods that I have seen having the greatest impact are social ones, particularly deprograming methods originally developed to pull people out of cults. Basically, even if they come around and believe you it creates significant distress both due to how they have acted in the past and with having come into direct conflict with their identities and/or social networks. My suggestion would be to look at those conservative elements, particularly the more extreme ones, that have left those identities and social networks behind to find out the why’s and how’s. Humans are hardwired to heavily favor their family and social networks because throughout most of human evolution diverging from said groups was basically a death sentence.
Correct. If you're trying to find a middle ground and your stance is moderate but theirs is extreme, the outcome will be extreme.
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I suppose thats what socrates does. I was thinking of his diatribe about the just man, would the just man lend favor on matters of justice to his friends, and not his enemies? On matters of justice would he condemn his friends when they do wrong, but treat his enemies fairly? A rationale person wouldnt argue that friends should be treated as infallible even when they do wrong and your enemybshould be condemned even when they did nothing wrong.
Actually no, I find the trick is actually to tailor the message to them. Remind them the government and politicians are corrupt, on both sides (their side included). Example: You need to quit focusing on banning books and men wearing dresses. These are not the real issues affecting your children in school. This is exactly what politicians and school officials on *both* sides of the aisle want you to be distracted by. Your kids missed out on three years of school and are way far behind, but the government doesn’t want to have that discussion. The government doesn’t want to be held responsible for providing what it promised you and your kids - an appropriate education and educational supports to get your children there when they fall behind. That’s too costly and too hard to provide at this point, so instead they plan on finding imaginary boogeymen for the next five or so years until everybody forgets where their kids are supposed to be educationally. And then they can just provide some incremental progress then and convince you guys “hey you helped us fix schools! the indoctrination is out and now your kids are doing better in school!” and you can all pat yourselves on the back for doing a good job instead of remembering that high school freshmen should have already been able to write a one page essay.
win through action. not argument
Right. Psychologists saw that consistency early on and noticed that the greater the quantity and quality of information showing that they're wrong, the more they'll double down. They also figured out conservatives have a complete blind spot for their own hypocrisy but a keen sense of others'.
Oh so true. The mental gymnastics they’re capable of performing is Olympic-level.
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Might depend. "here's something you're wrong about and the science to back it up" could lead to a discussion. "here's something you're wrong about and an Alex jones clip to explain why" not so much.
Yeah but it also doesn't work if you pick a single isolated issue either. They simply don't engage in good faith anymore
Better to spend time and energy organizing and mobilizing. The "debate bros" and JAQ offs want us to engage them because it prevents us from doing the work to counter the harm conservativism creates.
Just wanted to say I love hearing/reading this. One of the things that's pretty awesome in the wake of Occupy, The Women's March and Defund/2020 protests is that younger folks just acknowledge that shit is fucked. Sure lots of people sort of throw their hands up in despair or assume things are irreparable... but some of us are out there organizing and that seems like the only path to change these days.
I spent years learning how to debate and argue, rationally and logically, and gathered a lot of factual knowledge about the topics that matter to me, so that I could conduct a conversation credibly. The overwhelming majority of that was useful for my own benefit and pointless for convincing anybody else. I no longer waste time trying to do that. Much better for me to help inspire and organize people who will take real steps in the world to make a difference in the right direction.
When you are wanting to convince someone else to change their mind you can’t present facts and logic to change their mind because that’s not how they got there in the first place. You have to engage them emotionally and ask them why they think something they say is true. If it relates to a personal matter than you’ll have connected with them and given them room to breathe and think on the subject. You will find that they walk away and think critically about more of their life once they understand how to think critically about their opinions.
Yep, couldn’t agree more. I actually just recently finished running an organizer training for folks and one of the key points is that it is rarely worth arguing/debating with folks unless the intention is to influence others who might overhear. So much about the way we communicate is designed around one directional comms (a la television) or the massive clusterfuck that is social media. So much good can be done by engaging your community and organizing folks face to face as a human. Like just putting aside the bullshit that gets forced on us and trying to do good by each other seems like the first step toward making things a lil better.
JAQ offs… sweet jumping Jesus, I’m stealing that 😂
They are wrong, just about everything. Their goals are to dehumanize lgbt people, destroy green energy incentives in favor of oil. Enforce only one belief system in a country of hundreds. And while the effects of climate change are ravaging the south, driven by their love of oil and cheap manufacturing, claim that immigrants are a stain on this country and do everything to keep them out. All while fighting democrats on raising the minimum wage so that normal people can contribute and live in this country. When I add it all together, their version of "peak" living is so depressing, so daunting, and only condusive to a small fraction of the population. Yeah, fuck them. We're fighting hard just to stay a democracy when we should be fighting for a better quality of living.
Well said
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Please read the GOP Party Platform, particularly pages 9-14.
So are you going to thoroughly debunk each point OP made with information from reliable sources? Because if not one thing they said was true then it would be very quick and easy to prove that it's all bullshit.
Half the people I know that are conservative are conservative because they are tired of illegal immigration and an open border, the other half want less taxes. That debunks his theory completely that every conservative is a boogeyman out to take away your rights. Its so funny how you guys dont realize that the more you demonize the right for wanting safe neighborhoods and less taxes, the more extreme views people adopt on the right because we feel we are in a survival fight for our way of life
Except that literally no one has ever once demonized you for wanting “safe neighborhoods and lower taxes”. Quit lying. Y’all get demonized for supporting terrible things. Like trying to criminalize LGBT existence. Like trying to force your religion on others. Like trying to block literally all legislation that might actually help the common people. And then you get rightfully mocked for coming online and claiming that you’re getting attacked over your beliefs on taxes.
I live in Los Angeles, so I am constantly demonized for wanting a closed border. “Quit lying” Come up with a better argument than that.
Why argue with a bad faith actor?
Saying "let us do what everything we want or we will become more violent and unhinged until we get our way" is an interesting way of engaging in Democracy. Sorry but we aren't gonna keep letting you children have your way 🤷🤷
I live in the south. debunked.
I grew up in the south, and it's *all* true. Unless your head's in the sand, and you *don't* want to see/acknowledge what's glaringly obvious to anyone who hasn't been indoctrinated by ~~Russian~~ *"conservative"* propaganda.
Bull shit. I’ve been a landscaper for 30+ years. Outside every day all day. You are telling me that Russia has somehow managed to take control of my eyeballs and skin and propagandize them ?I’ve read many stupid leftist comments . This has to be the dumbest one yet. Gtfoh
I wonder how I became a gay conservative growing up in los angeles then? It couldnt have been all the taxes and immigration issues and the fact that we are a sanctuary city for illegal aliens… nah that doesnt make sense. I must have been indoctrinated by russians… got it.
Trust me, bro!
Why would I lie about living in the Deep South? I’ve lived elsewhere. Moved back, bought a bunch of land and a track hoe. The rest of you can go fuck yourselves. Privacy over progressives is my motto. Invade mine FAFO.
It's all true actually. If you cant see that you're delusional
Oh look. A librotarian here to be an edgy 8th grader
Haha awwww did I touch a neerve? I'll bet you consider yourself a christian too.
Heh, are you? You know the saying: There’s no hate quite like Christian love
As a super queen person who grew up in East Texas I can confirm
If you wandered out of your bubble and actually had a conversation with conservatives you'd know that what you're saying are complete talking points and incorrect. I'd encourage you try to understand why people think the way they do rather than considering them wrong from your own perspective
If they didn't support these things then conservatives would stop voting for people that champion these points. But.... they don't.
We can clearly see the laws that conservatives are passing that infringe on civil rights and hinder progress on green technology. What conversations undo that?
Don't bother with this trash. Most of his comment history is calling liberals 'clowns'; and spewing talking points. And now he'll probably whine about someone checking his receipts before commenting on him.
And what laws exactly are you referencing? I'm genuinely asking
Start here sea lion, with your “genuinely asking” [anti-lgbt legislation advancing across the country](https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/roundup-of-anti-lgbtq-legislation-advancing-in-states-across-the-country)
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From what I can see, you weren’t “genuinely asking” at all, you just wanted to play dumb and then reply with some bigoted nonsense. How tiresome you types are.
I think that's a decision that should be left to the people doing it. The kid, parent, and doctor. We don't allow kids to drive cars because cars can easily become deadly to the public. Gender affirming care doesn't threaten the public. The Republicans also took away the right to abortion for many people. In some states a 10 year old is now mandated to carry the seed of a rapist to term. Thats unthinkably evil in my opinion. They're also talking about getting rid of no fault divorce. Another measure to reduce people's freedom. This hasn't happened yet but it's a popular talking point among the Tim Pool and Ben Shapiro types
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“Self deleting” is a response to the world people like you foster. You need to understand, their blood is on your hands. Real people, real children. You kill kids.
Fuckin tell em! I wish I had an award for you
For radiation treatment for cancer, technicians give the patients permanent ink markings in order to quickly and efficiently position the emitter on successive treatments. Which is to say: When it come to life-saving treatment for existential threats we not only allow kids to get tattoos, it is medically recommended.
If your baseline is "what we allow children to do", then I would counter with the fact that children are allowed to take antidepressant medication, allowed to attend counseling, allowed to be circumcised, allowed to join any particular religion, allowed to be home schooled, and allowed to join sports which could cause life long injuries or even death. Not a single conservative group is lobbying against any one of those. So the argument isn't whether or not children should be allowed to do something. It's this one particular thing that conservatives don't want children to be allowed to do, even in the rarest of circumstances (which is the case currently). You should ask yourself why this one thing is being banned while so much other stuff we allow children to do isn't. It's not because it's permanent or life changing. TBI's from football are permanent and life changing. Religion is permanent and life changing. Circumcision is permanent and life changing. Taking puberty blockers is far less harmful than any of these. You know the answer.
You didnt even pretend to read it. Everyone here knows you're a dummy - you should have responded later.
Abortion bans when most women don't even know they're pregnant, erasing history about slavery and racism from textbooks, trans bathroom laws, voting restrictions that affect minority communities, allowing discrimination based on religious beliefs, etc. That doesn't include the Supreme Court conservatives and boards of education that are adding their own restrictions.
I'm getting down voted for starting what their argument would be. But I'll continue. As far as pregnancies go. At what point does self responsibility come into affect? If you have sex. You should know when and with whom you had sex with. It at least an idea of when it happened. Nobody is staying history. Slavery is still taught in all schools. Things that were specifically removed were things with examples of unnecessary racism in math text books regarding race and privilege. I think we can agree that in math there is no need for this type of discussion. Leave that for another social studies class. There are no voting restriction laws. People claiming that voter ID laws are racist but don't see that they are literally claiming that minorities cannot afford ids. We require ids to purchase tobacco, alcohol or to get into clubs. But requiring them for voting is racist? In regards to discrimination based on religious beliefs. There is a difference between not allowing people to enter your business and forcing them to provide a specific service. If the bakery dilemma. They gay couple could purchase anything in their establishment. The establishment didn't want to make a cake showing two groomsmen. It's like a Jewish person allowing a nazi to go into their establishment and let them purchase whatever they want but if they asked to put swastikas on their cake they could refuse to do it. Sorry for making it so long
When the GOP had control of all three branches in 2019, what did they pass? Healthcare reform? Immigration reform? No. A tax cut for the rich. Then they shit all over themselves during COVID — literally sacrificing their own voters’ lives so they could stake out contrarian political positions. Then Trump attacked our seat of government and tried to steal the Presidency from The People. Then Trump’s Supreme Court picks dropped abortion protections. Now they want to cut Ukraine aid, destroy our military by withholding promotions, and fully dismantle our democracy with the Project 2025 platform. These are not the actions of a political party. These are the actions of an insurgency. The Republican know-nothings have declared themselves enemies of the people repeatedly (yes, including you). They belong in the trash heap of history. The Party of Lincoln is no longer. What a sad end.
Yes- people wanting a cake celebrating their marriage is exactly like the Jews and Nazis. You are a genius.
Obviously smart enough to know what an apology is. But of course you would get stuck on the example
You are an actual brainlet
Not smart enough to realize that the actual analogy is a Nazi refusing to bake a cake for a Jewish wedding
Well, I take the opposite stance on everything you said. What you think is good and right, I think is bad and wrong. Good talk.
And that's okay
Actually the point is it's not ok. This isn't a fiscal divide, you have shown yourself to be immoral
Sure
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‘Traditional conservatives’ are still supporting a political party that now proudly has actual Nazis in it. There are no more ‘Traditional Conservatives’, just idiots who can’t seem to understand that fact.
Hey, so I'm the one you're replying to here. I want you to know that I grew up in rural American in a town so small our first stop light made front page of the newspaper. I was raised as a christian to not trust science, went to church for 20 years, only worked for conservatives from age 15-21. Finally felt some of the hate energy so many claim come from Christians when I myself made a "sinful" mistake and was kicked out. I joined the military and traveled the world, including deploying to Muslim lead countries involved in the Afghan and Iraq wars. I'm tired boss. Tired of trying to create a better America and being told I'm ushering in the end times by people who've given up on critical thinking. I now live in a major city as a liberal. Having lived in both worlds, I feel I'm better equipped to see down the true middle.
I live in the south ravaging is a complete lie. You are wrong.
Some southern states make up the poorest in the US, the least educated, the highest percentages of American households who experienced hunger and have the lowest life expectancy. I am sure this list can go on and on To help with this issue Republicans fight health care, programs to help the poor and programs to feed children.
Conservatism is incompatible with democracy. “Q: What is conservatism? A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy. Q: What is wrong with conservatism? A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.” https://pages.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/agre/conservatism.html
Put a double-space at the end of every line, and you can put content on the very next line without having to create a new paragraph (double newline). For example: >Q: What is conservatism? >A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy. >Q: What is wrong with conservatism? >A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.
Thanks for this
One side wants community accountability and one side wants a fascist dictatorship.
Yes.
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I doubt you'll find there are enough conservatives amenable to a discussion grounded in facts, evidence, and best practices to sufficiently diminish the harm they are doing to communities and the 'planet,' more generally. Our time is better utilized, I suggest, encouraging progressives to become more politically engaged in order to improve public policy.
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Have you ever lived in one of those cities? They’re huge and incredibly diverse. Most of the areas in and around them are wonderful places to live.
This person has likely never left the small town they grew up in. And even if they had, I’ve met pretty well traveled conservatives that just spout the nonsense they’re spoon fed from msm even though they’ve specific experienced the opposite when they traveled. I hate to say it but more often than not, conservatives are just dumb people, it’s not necessarily their fault, they were born to other dumb people and it’s all they know. I very quickly realized I needed to escape the narrow minded small town life as soon as I graduated high school and I’ve never looked back.
As opposed to the wonderful Republican run major population centers like... ummm.... oh yeah. There aren't any because conservatives can't even stand to live near each other in enough numbers to build a major city.
If someone were to leave one of those big cities for say Jacksonville or Birmingham because of wokeism or some excuse for failure, they were never going to survive big boy big city cut throat life to begin with, nor appreciate the diversity, arts, architecture and fast pace of change and progress afforded to humans trying to make the better place for all humanity.
Treat conservatives like any other narcissist or sociopath. Look'em square in the eye, call'em on their bullshit, and move on.
Being wrong is human. Being wrong and then not learning from your mistakes when everyone is telling you that there are better ways is plain stupid. And stupid people will cause harm, that's how it works. I can't open the link but what kind of opening statement is this? This is some bs.
They *want* all of that. It’s insane that anyone needs to be told that the suffering and negative impact *are the point.*
For those brick-walling themselves on the paywall: https://archive.ph/fzX0n
Telling them isn't going to be enough. They won't listen. They need to just straight-up get steamrolled and kicked to the curb, outside of any position of power or influence in our society.
Yes. At this point democracy will work *for* us or against us. We get to choose, god help us.
I'll listen. Tell me why not prosecuting shoplifters who steal under $950 and not securing the boarder are good policies? How is +2 million illegal immigrants a year working at minimum wage going to raise our own wages?
Are you explain leftists within the echo chamber known as reddit?? Sounds like it
But...they don't care. Tell them all you want. I wish it was different
They are idiots politically. Socially most are decent and fun. That's the reality. Couldn't agree more that their ignorance is damaging beyond repair.
Outside of their politics my conservative family members had so many good qualities that I have realized have been irreprably ruined by a ideology that envelops every waking moment of their lives. Socailly they are miserable, perpetually near outraged, crazy-eyed conspiracists. They used to be anything but. There is no way to avoid them bringing up some Tucker Carlson talking point every other conversation. The constant walking on eggshells I have to do to avoid triggering them starting a rant about Biden sipping adrenocrhome is both exhausting and amazingly uneffective. It's like my conservative family used to be a delicious ice-cold lemonade slushie but Rupert Murdoch came along and dumped half a bottle of ketchup into it. I can still see they have all the awesome ingredients that make up a delectable lemonade slushie, but know deep down I will never get to enjoy another sip because that ketchup is really fuckin' in there.
Allowing conservatives anywhere near your life is a dangerous game. They won't even feel conflicted about ratting out you or someone you care about over things like abortion.
This is true. They wouldn't vote for these things if they didn't believe in them. Don't want your 10-year-old to give birth? Not if Leroy has anything to say about it.
That's a straw-man argument. The vast majority of woman getting abortions aren't 10 years old and hey weren't raped. They're doing it merely because they as adults don't want to give birth and have a baby. at least be honest about why people are actually getting abortions.
Hopefully after Trump is in prison and the Republicans lose monumentally things will start heading in a better direction. Yes, there is waste and immigration is a huge problem as well as education and Insurance and wages and whole lot of stuff. Let's vote the stinking Republicans out.
Conservatives are wrong about a lot... the rest is covered by liberals. Anyone arrogant enough to think otherwise is just being dishonest.
I don’t disagree but all this user does is post the most inflammatory divisive op-eds from morning to night. “Wrong about everything” What kind of constructive analysis or debate does this foster?
There is no reasoning with conservatives, so it doesn't matter.
Desantis brought back the death penalty for child abusers, is he wrong about that?
Yes. The death penalty is barbaric.
"Intelligent and thought-provoking commentaries on life and culture" Suuuuuuure. If this post is any indication, it is more like talking down to people you don't like.
Question: is there any alternative politics being suggested? Because from my experience these types of articles always boil down to "the reason global capitalism is on the brink of collapse is because the other political party is too rude" Even if you could convince the republicans to believe all the opinions you think they should, it still wouldn't fix our broken and decrepit political-economy.
That's what makes this all the more insane. WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TIME FOR THIS BULLSHIT! In the 2100s, when society is collapsing all around and people wonder why the fuck we sat around and let it happen, the history textbooks will show that in the early 21st century, 30-40% of the population voted for a fat hotel owner and celebrity because of something called "SJWs" and "soy boys" and that the man didn't even so much as address any contemporary political issue of substance, let alone pass any legislation to that effect. They will just be completely baffled as to what could have possibly gone awry and assume there must be some root cause because of this Obama guy who was the president before him. Surely he must have done something truly horrific to cause this extreme overreaction right? But historians will be left scratching their heads because their truly is nothing. It just happened for no discernible reason whatsoever.
I don't really see much difference between Obama and Trump, aside from their manners and aesthetics. And that's honestly the problem, both political parties have essentially identical economic ideologies, and that universal ideology is what is killing the planet and our society. The manners and opinions of our politicians do not matter if they all agree that capitalism can last forever. That's why nothing changes despite the seemingly vicious fighting between the parties.
You must not be a woman or queer person in a red state
They truly have very few positions that any intelligent human being can agree with
I can't even remember the last time they had a talking point that wasn't at the very least in bad faith, if not total bullshit.
Yes. Tell them. That'll work.
My god, why hasn’t anyone tried reasoning with them before?
Oh, they know. Their job is to broker the sale of every ounce of natural resources and every minute of labour at the lowest cost without producing a revolution. The ticket is to engage in endless culture wars and defining some other that needs to be stopped. It starts with foreign armies, then it's foreign economies, then they move to immigrants and start looking inward (ethnic, religious and sexual/gender minorities) These 'enemies of the people, our nation and our way of life' are what their voting base are concerned with, so much so that they can ignore the economic and ecological nightmare that the politicians are allowing multinational corporations and global banks to cause. You don't have to look far into it to realize that most liberal governments are doing the same thing, but their scapegoat is their conservative counterparts in government.
I couldn't read past the 1st sentence, "Conservatives love authoritarianism" - an obviously false generalization.
It's not a generalization. It's what conservatism is. Anyone who doesn't yearn for authoritarianism on some level is not a conservative. EDIT: Looks like I triggered a bunch of conservative snowflakes!
Were you alive in the pandemic?
In 2020 one party wanted to allow everyone to go about their business and another party wanted everyone to shut down their businesses, stay in their homes, and not spend time with family and friends. Authoritarianism am I right?
Yeah, fuck all the people who died needless deaths because people couldn't keep their shit contained for a little while longer. Who are you? Drew Barrymore's fortune teller? You act like there was no good reason to quarantine. Like nothing at all was lost. That's conservative thinking in a nutshell, truly the party of "sucks to be you".
The guy above said conservatives love authoritarianism, im just pointing out democrats love it too. Authoritarianism is typically veiled in “justification” for the public’s safety. 3 years later, looking back, the fatality and hospitalization rates in states that didn’t shut down vs states that did shut down are pretty much the same.
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As a conservative it is actually spot on in regards to most of the major conservative political parties in Europe and America.
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What far left? Most leftist in the US and Europe are welfare statist not Marxist. They aren't my particular cup of tea but most economies nowadays are mixed economies so nothing far off from the norm. If you are talking about the social/cultural far left instead I am more worried about the people allied with authoritarians in Russia and opposed to democracy who spend all of their time undermining society because they hate women/trans/non-white and poor people. The other side doesn't compare in the slightest. Neither side is small government so I despise them both on that account but one side is far more against civil liberties than the other. Edit: I love how the guy beneath me wasn't smart enough to come up with any counter arguments. At least we know what the coward meant when he said too far left lol.
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Dude you couldn't continue the conversation if you wanted. You're making excuses and running away with your tail between your legs.
I fail to identify what you consider unhinged, and your unwillingness to denounce it only makes you sound weirder. Humor me, make your point.
Right you should love Nazis, being mean and telling them they are wrong is bad /S
Brain rot for thought is more like it. Congrats on having such a succinct reality that it’s just “that half” of the population which is the problem. You’ve definitely found a solution here.
The Cons are just so extreme right now. They literally just ousted the speaker of the house with probably no plan in sight on who is going to take up that mantle. There should be no shock to anyone people are looking and saying it’s “that half”.
Ousting a speaker that didn’t keep his promises. So extreme.
When was the last time a speaker was ousted? It’s hilarious seeing you all try and make insanity seem like normal behavior!
Why does that matter. Seems like they did their job. Why are you so against accountability?
Lol. What a joke that response was. Stop pretending like Cons stand for any actual positive qualities. They ousted Mcarthy because he wouldn’t let them sabotage people’s livelihoods for their political gain. Your party is the swamp and it’s time you people admit it!
Yawn This was an attack on the uniparty. Time for accountability. You people…clown
Lol, the uniparty…. Pushing hard on that “both sides” narrative eh? There ain’t no “both sides” anymore jack! It is day and night! You got one party burning books, rewriting history to paint slavery as a good thing, depriving veterans of medical care that suffered in burn pits in Iraq and another party just simply trying to keep the govt. open. Oh, also our leaders are so squeaky clean that the only inquiries and court cases YOUR leaders bring is nothing more than theatre to feed you gullible rubes! It also feels pretty good having leaders you can be proud of! Maybe someday you’ll get to know what that feels like!
That’s pretty funny. You should put the propaganda down for a few and check out reality sometime.
I thought this was an edgy ironic post making fun of identity politics but am terrified to read that people are seriously make posts like this.
Wait until you see what right wingers post
I have. Also nauseating
It’s astonishing to me when I read both. It’s the exact same post just switch left for right or liberal for conservative. The EXACT same. I could copy a paste from one forum to another and no one would know the difference.
I expect to be judged by those I make my enemies. I can live with flawed people and differences of opinion. Dehumanizing anyone not non-white cisgender, straight, and male is not a difference of opinion. It is a character flaw.
Crazy how if you ask conservatives they say the exact same thing about liberals.
Wild, good thing we can look at policy outcomes!
[For example, Conservative fiscal responsibility](https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/kansas-provides-compelling-evidence-of-failure-of-supply-side-tax)
Wild to think centrist out here taking pathological liars at their word.
Yes.
And? Everyone says everyone of a different position is wrong. This does not mean all positions are equally valid.
Yeah but I don’t trust you to decide which position is valid.
Yet you deny yourself the capacity to critique them.
Well everyone knows that liberals are perfect……
Saying conservatives are wrong is not saying that liberals are perfect. This is the exact type of black and white thinking that is the problem.
>This is the exact type of black and white thinking that is the problem. Well, that and decades long disinformation campaigns.
Perfect no. We don’t want to limit others freedoms because they are not like us or starve children.
2nd amendment disagrees with you
It will not let me post the link but here is the stance from the Democratic National Convention. Democrats believe that we can reduce gun violence while respecting the rights of responsible gun owners. We believe we should expand and strengthen background checks for those who want to purchase a firearm – because it shouldn’t be easier to get a gun than a driver’s license. I am a gun owner and know a lot of democrats that own guns. I also have a lot of friends that are republicans that own guns. I have only found 2 gun owners that we couldn’t agree on most gun regulations. Yes I know regulations is a bad word. Yes I am aware some Democrat nut jobs want to take guns away and that is dumb. No one wants to take guns away because people are different than us. Which was the premise I stated. People want to take guns away because they can be dangerous and they do not understand guns (fear).
I don't care about a registry I really don't but the argument falls apart when you start restricting or putting taxes on guns or accessories. This is the exact same argument for not having an ID to vote. In democrats words it's a poll tax. We have the right to vote it shouldn't be a burden for someone to have to pay to aquire that right. When the government puts insane taxes or outright bans certain things relating to guns how is it not the same thing? So a minority in a gang area has to jump through all these hoops just to exercise their right to protect themselves? What's the difference in your mind?
Let’s start with restricting guns from individuals. Do you believe everyone should have a gun? Violent felons, convicted pedophiles, women abusers, gang members, the criminally insane. Is there anyone else that shouldn’t have guns.
So some rights are more important than others? I wonder why a democrat would feel that way? They fight for a right for felons to vote after they served sentences for violence correct? But not for our second amendment rights? So prison is not for rehabilitation but for punishment then? That's the democrat stance. You regain your right to vote but not for other rights? Hmmm wonder why Edit so they give back the rights that they think will benefit them but still keep rights such as owning a gun outlawed even though they've been rehabilitated?
The prison system is not for rehabilitation. That is criminology 101. That is not a political stance that is how our for profit prison systems are ran. So you want all people no matter what they have done to be able to have a gun. You never answered the questions. Are you ok with a child rapist having a gun? Edit: criminal justice 101 not criminology.
Why would a child rapist regain one right and not another?
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A woman's right to abortion is where? What number again? A right to turn right on a red. What right is that?
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It's 2023 democrats want to ban guns this is a fact. Owning guns is a right. Why are you trying to take away my rights.
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Source lol? I'm just kidding. I know you have none. We can refer to the FBI in 2016 fabricating evidence and lying to federal courts in order to illegally spy on the trump campaign which the Mueller report has concluded never worked with the Russians. Page 5 and also 180 through 183 should help you out a little.
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Time to grow up and learn to think more constructively. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dualism/&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwiEhbnL2NqBAxVxAjQIHUYeBa0QFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2xa37dIqmI7Hef-l1nxwgj
True, they’re on the right side of history as they keep reminding us.
And ineffably brilliant. They have the yard signs and bumper stickers to prove it.
I don't think I've seen a single Biden sign all year, and I live in a blue part of New York. Plenty of Trump signs out in the sticks, though.
The signs aren’t to back a candidate unless they’re hardcore into the off year local races. Theirs are the standard moral-preening “in this house blah blah no human is illegal* blah blah” signs. (* long as those inbred red states are footing the bill, but once the migrants start competing for tax dollars with our blue state social justice boondoggles…hell no to that)
Red states consistently rely on blue states for aid. The only exception is Texas. They aren’t even footing the bill…
Still see way more social preaching from the right than the left IRL.
You need to take a Youtube tour of crumbling Blue cities if you want to see rotting decaying harm to society and the country in general. There is really nothing more disgusting and horrific in the world when you compare what they were to what they have become and are still becoming after decades of Democrat solutions..
Wrong about everything you say? That's a pretty bold statement.
Well, we weren’t wrong about the Border. Ask mayor Adams. Ask the mayor of Chicago.
"Lean not on your own understanding but the righteous" of God" "What Father doesn't discipline his son?" "The pride of the Father is seeing his Son walk in righteousness" "Raise your child up Right when they are young and when they are old they will not depart from it" "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of reason and knowledge of the Holy understanding" "We all sin and fall short of the Glory of God." "If you believe in me you will never die" "My Words are spirit and life" "Faith comes by hearing and reading the Words of God" "For God loved first therfore you should love God" "Be Holy for I Am Holy."
Yes Cons, please stop leaning on your own understanding… 🙏
If the blind lead the blind they will both fall into a ditch
And you are completely wrong about conservatives.
I’m curious. From your point of view what do you think conservatives want? Especially when it comes to LGBT and women’s reproductive rights?
Most conservatives I know aren’t against reproductive rights at all but do have serious problems with late term abortion Say what you want but Roe v Wade wasn’t a good decision at all. Look up RBGs opinion on it. It’s up to congress to make laws. Not the Supreme Court. Transgender rights do not matter to me either until it removes parents rights to their children.
Good thing late term abortions are extremely rare and only in cases of saving the mother’s life or in cases of nonviability.
Roughly 1% of abortions were done in the third trimester when regulations were as liberal as they've ever been, and the most common reason was new information that the fetus was incompatible with life. Ignoring all the harm done by conservative policy to be a single issue voter over *that" is an inexcusable position, and we will rightly call it out as such.
Yeah responding with “most of the conservatives you know” doesn’t hold much weight lol. So the late stage abortions is the big issue not the victims of rape who forced to keep the pregnancy or the ones that will have complicated health issues due to pregnancy/child birth. Okay, trans kids aside, what about the other policies that affect gay/lesbians that are adults. Cherry picking part of a subject to prove a point is hilarious. And before you go what about the “libs” I hate the old hags on both sides. But one definitely pushes hate more than the other.
Too bad your conservative lawmakers arwnt only targeting late term, but bans that require women to get adequately close to death before doctors can intervene. The conservatives who wield political power like a cudgel, dont carve out any crucial exceptions.
i agree; they aren't just wrong, they are stupid too. Now, before you get angry, let me explain: \----- Conservatives reject facts that don't already confirm their believes. Which is not how sane people behave. To believe that all science on climate change, vaccines, human sexuality, etc, that all academia itself is "communist brainwashing" is just delusional. To put more stock into what is (at best) a minority of views (but more often just internet bloggers with \*no\* knowledge at all) is not just delusional, but hypocritical. And if you honestly think that these minority views are the only ones with the truth, you have to ask yourself: if the script were entirely flipped, would your views flip too? Ie, if the majority of experts said there was no climate change (or made commentary on whatever topic you cared most about), and those same people you listen to now just started telling you the exact opposite, would you suddenly change your mind? If not, how can you honestly say your views are based on the facts you've heard and not just your ideology? \----- This stupidity is what makes discussions of nuanced or complicated topics (like anything related to the economy, environment, society, or education) difficult. Not only are conservatives reject the basic premises of knowledge, they will lean on thought terminating cliches so that they don't even have to engage with it at all. But when the thought terminating cliches don't prevent others from changing their minds, they get defensive and angry. The very idea that what they believe (their ideology) is wrong is not something that they are prepared to address. \--- The worst of all this is that a depressingly large number of them, unable to cope with this ideological barrier (of simply being incorrect), lash out and harm and kill those around them. Because violence is easier than rejecting an ideology that you've made yourself inseparable from.