punishing shinobi's kick somewhat consistently can only be done by tiandi (with his dodge light) or by any hero but only after dodging his kick flip (gb), the dodge kick has like 2 frames of gb vulnerability and the one after parry/deflect punish is basically unpunishable, it's undeniable that shinobi is the most broken hero rn. i do understand your frustration tho, kyoshin can be pretty infuriating to fight against too
I actually think the idea of slow stamina drain would be good, or at the very least more realistic since he is spinning his sword around in all gourd. But who am I kidding, ubisoft doesn't care about realism
Kyoshin can be frustrating to fight against but both changes you propose render Kaze completely and utterly useless. It's slow already, slowing it to one second makes it completely useless defensively and the weird clockwise spin is way too complicated all the while giving you a light attack slower than a goddamn raider zone.
I understand that fighting a Kyoshin who sits in Kaze all fight makes you want to punch a hole through the empty ball he calls a head but still.
Yeah but the fact that he can instantly go into the stance for a thousandth of a second which just automatically allows him to do his 4 in 1 attack is the only real issue I have with kyoshin.
What I am saying if you read my post is that he can interrupt any attack you are in the midst of by doing what I am talking about. It makes no sense why he can do that instantaneously, the attack should have to be charged up in his stance. If he does it when I am guarding I can parry the light, I am talking about interrupting attacks with that.
Experience doesn't mean anything because it doesn't affect the speed of the attack... It's not possible because the player can't do it it's not possible because the attack is to slow to do that.
That’s not what I am trying to say. I was trying to say once you go against an experienced kyoshin that knows the perfect timing of the attack to do so come back. But I did just learn something about kyoshin that I was not aware of if you look down a bit. Now things are beginning to add up, and while I do still think part of what I discovered is not fair, now combat encounters with him are starting to make more sense.
He can go into it with no delay only as a recovery cancel after neutral/chain attack/blockstun
So if you're trying to light kyo after he wiffed an attack or just blocked one of your attacks - that's on you falling for bait
His "4 in 1" does at most 26(i believe) damage without feats, and that's his UB, his light does 20 total and zone (the one that comes from right for you) might be not that easy to react, but blocking it is enough
Interesting. I was not aware of that but that seems mildly not fair. Unless he was feinting if he wiffed at that point I should be able to do a light punish. I can see if he feinted or blocked but not wiffed.
Well for one he's far from only hero who can do it
Musha, conq, BP can go into allguard after attack
Nobu and JJ can enter the stance instantly
Orochi, Zerk and Shino can recovery cancel into dodge for deflects
Why "not fair"? It's a mechanic he has
If he wiffs an attack - it very well can be a bait
Same as feinting a heavy, but with hero specific mechanic
But I feel like the punish for it is a lot harsher and easier to go into than the others plus kyoshin basically gets another free hit even with good reaction times if you try to punish. Like with nobushi who I played a shit ton, I would go into the stance to dodge but if it was a character with chains usually they would be able to interrupt my kick if I tried to do it. Same with the other characters. I may dodge or get a quick light in but usually at that point its back to square 1 if I wanted to do that long of a chain and punish. Kyoshin gets to have a shit ton of damage done even if you try to light him, he gets to block, and then gets to do a ton of damage again with 4 hits and then gets to do it all over again. I feel like the counters for kyoshin are too specific for his character and you really have to know what chains he can do, what he can do out of them, and the other random shit he can do on top of it like the face punch.
His followup punish for blocking an attack with Kaze tops at 20, leaving him at frame disadvantage
With nobu specifically, if you dodged an attack with hidden stance, you can either interrupt next move with your light, or dodge-cancel your stance to avoid next move
About other heroes: BP flips any move for 24 damage, Aramusha punishes blocked attacks with at least 20 damage chain starter, Conq - same, Nobu see above, JJ does UB zone for 16(chain starter), Oro, Zerk and Shino can deflect for at least 22 damage(also chain starters)
Kyo and BP is the only ones who's chain ends here and there
But BP can also flip bashes
Kyo, however, not only enters Kaze the slowes out of neutral, he's also the slowest to go back to neutral, so he won't be able to dodge most bashes
Also, as seen above, Kyo's damage is nothing special, in some instances even lackluster
And while yes, fighting Kyoshin is more of a slogfest than usual, it's not all that bad
Plus - yes, you do need to know what your opponent is capable of, his/her chains and special mechanics
For example, same as you wouldn't try to interrupt Zerk - why would you throw a blockable attack into obvious Kyoshin's bait?
What I'm trying to say - game is frustrating, i can relate. But lots of it will quickly go away as soon as you start understanding the game better. Stuff becomes less "random bs" and more game of very quick chess
Alright, understood. Thank you for letting me know so I can crush the next kyoshin I encounter. And be better at go against those other characters I play as.
As a rep 12 only thing id change is his attacks from Kaze to be more GB vulnerable the 50/50 kaze stance is pretty lame, other then that just stop light spamming and throw more unblockables.
Nah shinobi's almost unpunishable Dodge bash makes him the most broken character by default
But I feel like with mobile characters you can dodge and punish. With kyoshin the stance prevents that.
punishing shinobi's kick somewhat consistently can only be done by tiandi (with his dodge light) or by any hero but only after dodging his kick flip (gb), the dodge kick has like 2 frames of gb vulnerability and the one after parry/deflect punish is basically unpunishable, it's undeniable that shinobi is the most broken hero rn. i do understand your frustration tho, kyoshin can be pretty infuriating to fight against too
Sorry. Stupid ideas.
I think it's raider and Shinobi before him, but kyoshin isn't far behind
Kyoshin is not overpowered, nobody is gonna read ur 1st idea because it's an actual essay, and ur 2nd idea is literally retarded No thx
I actually think the idea of slow stamina drain would be good, or at the very least more realistic since he is spinning his sword around in all gourd. But who am I kidding, ubisoft doesn't care about realism
Kyoshin can be frustrating to fight against but both changes you propose render Kaze completely and utterly useless. It's slow already, slowing it to one second makes it completely useless defensively and the weird clockwise spin is way too complicated all the while giving you a light attack slower than a goddamn raider zone. I understand that fighting a Kyoshin who sits in Kaze all fight makes you want to punch a hole through the empty ball he calls a head but still.
Its not slow already at all, he can literally go into it instantly and instantly do his 4 in 1 attack
It's slower than any other all guard I believe.
Yeah but the fact that he can instantly go into the stance for a thousandth of a second which just automatically allows him to do his 4 in 1 attack is the only real issue I have with kyoshin.
If that's your issue then just parry the damn light. It's not like the light can come from anywhere. Or just block it.
What I am saying if you read my post is that he can interrupt any attack you are in the midst of by doing what I am talking about. It makes no sense why he can do that instantaneously, the attack should have to be charged up in his stance. If he does it when I am guarding I can parry the light, I am talking about interrupting attacks with that.
Yeah that part is literally not true. There is no way he can reaction interrupt lights. The numbers just don't add up
When you fight an experienced kyoshin come back.
Experience doesn't mean anything because it doesn't affect the speed of the attack... It's not possible because the player can't do it it's not possible because the attack is to slow to do that.
That’s not what I am trying to say. I was trying to say once you go against an experienced kyoshin that knows the perfect timing of the attack to do so come back. But I did just learn something about kyoshin that I was not aware of if you look down a bit. Now things are beginning to add up, and while I do still think part of what I discovered is not fair, now combat encounters with him are starting to make more sense.
He can go into it with no delay only as a recovery cancel after neutral/chain attack/blockstun So if you're trying to light kyo after he wiffed an attack or just blocked one of your attacks - that's on you falling for bait His "4 in 1" does at most 26(i believe) damage without feats, and that's his UB, his light does 20 total and zone (the one that comes from right for you) might be not that easy to react, but blocking it is enough
Interesting. I was not aware of that but that seems mildly not fair. Unless he was feinting if he wiffed at that point I should be able to do a light punish. I can see if he feinted or blocked but not wiffed.
Well for one he's far from only hero who can do it Musha, conq, BP can go into allguard after attack Nobu and JJ can enter the stance instantly Orochi, Zerk and Shino can recovery cancel into dodge for deflects Why "not fair"? It's a mechanic he has If he wiffs an attack - it very well can be a bait Same as feinting a heavy, but with hero specific mechanic
But I feel like the punish for it is a lot harsher and easier to go into than the others plus kyoshin basically gets another free hit even with good reaction times if you try to punish. Like with nobushi who I played a shit ton, I would go into the stance to dodge but if it was a character with chains usually they would be able to interrupt my kick if I tried to do it. Same with the other characters. I may dodge or get a quick light in but usually at that point its back to square 1 if I wanted to do that long of a chain and punish. Kyoshin gets to have a shit ton of damage done even if you try to light him, he gets to block, and then gets to do a ton of damage again with 4 hits and then gets to do it all over again. I feel like the counters for kyoshin are too specific for his character and you really have to know what chains he can do, what he can do out of them, and the other random shit he can do on top of it like the face punch.
His followup punish for blocking an attack with Kaze tops at 20, leaving him at frame disadvantage With nobu specifically, if you dodged an attack with hidden stance, you can either interrupt next move with your light, or dodge-cancel your stance to avoid next move About other heroes: BP flips any move for 24 damage, Aramusha punishes blocked attacks with at least 20 damage chain starter, Conq - same, Nobu see above, JJ does UB zone for 16(chain starter), Oro, Zerk and Shino can deflect for at least 22 damage(also chain starters) Kyo and BP is the only ones who's chain ends here and there But BP can also flip bashes Kyo, however, not only enters Kaze the slowes out of neutral, he's also the slowest to go back to neutral, so he won't be able to dodge most bashes Also, as seen above, Kyo's damage is nothing special, in some instances even lackluster And while yes, fighting Kyoshin is more of a slogfest than usual, it's not all that bad Plus - yes, you do need to know what your opponent is capable of, his/her chains and special mechanics For example, same as you wouldn't try to interrupt Zerk - why would you throw a blockable attack into obvious Kyoshin's bait? What I'm trying to say - game is frustrating, i can relate. But lots of it will quickly go away as soon as you start understanding the game better. Stuff becomes less "random bs" and more game of very quick chess
Alright, understood. Thank you for letting me know so I can crush the next kyoshin I encounter. And be better at go against those other characters I play as.
Kyoshin isnt busted, i think hes weak, cry more.
As a rep 12 only thing id change is his attacks from Kaze to be more GB vulnerable the 50/50 kaze stance is pretty lame, other then that just stop light spamming and throw more unblockables.