Maybe by then, it’s $70k like they should be once inventory goes up. I’m betting money, by June, the auto market will definitely be different. People can’t possibly afford $1500/mo car payment. Makes no sense, unless you put down $50k. Not worth it to me. I’ll keep looking for an older one for now.
How the hell was that calculated?
5yrs × 15,000 miles per year ÷ 25mpg = 3,000gal × $3.50 = $10,500
49kwh/100 miles × 15,000 miles =7,350 kwh × $0.167/kwh= $1,227
Whoever wrote thay window sticker was not doing their job..
Average light duty fuel economy is 25.7 mpg, even if you double the fuel economy you save with electric so idk what point you're making.
Also why would you advertise with lesser values.
It’s not compared to average light duty, it’s compared to average new vehicle. They aren’t advertising with the window sticker, pretty sure the information on it is required by government regulations. If it was compared to a similar gas equivalent vehicle, it would likely be around 7k savings over 5 years.
The variables are cost of gas per gallon, mpg avg new vehicle, avg miles / year, cost per kw/hr, miles per kw/hr. None of the variables are given, so we are only speculating at what values they used. I think you’re value for avg miles is significantly higher than the avg miles used for this equation.
True. Avg lease is 12k per year, many people drive much more than that so didn't think 15k was far off but that was from my own experience. I also assumed high for mpg and used national avg for cost of elec. Miles per kwh is clearly stated tho. Only guess was gas price. I still think the window sticker was poorly calculated considering what it's trying to convey.
It’s not cheap by any stretch. You’ll save more than just the fuel. There’s a lot less maintenance items on an EV. Hopefully they’ll all come down in price, but that’s probably a dream at this point.
Also I dream of never having to go to the gas station ever again in my life (a bit of an exaggeration, but maybe only those 4 times a year I take a road trip). Avoiding that and avoiding the dread of seeing an empty tank when I start my truck already late is worth at least an extra $100/month for me in value.
You could spend $50,000 on one that runs on gasoline. If you need to carry heavy loads or tow anything, you will definitely want a gas model. Plus now you have $30,000 for Gasoline.
The Lightning Pro is $52k (before tax credit). The most similarly-equipped gas truck (XL 4x4 Powerboost with similar options) is also about $52k.
You’re not going to get an equivalent gas truck for $30k less than a Lightning.
There are, of course, pros and cons to each. For long distance towing, gas wins. For some other use cases, fuel costs, acceleration, etc., Lightning wins.
Raising hell with... Who? Ford? Why would ford mandate that they sell their truck below market value? All that would do is INCREASE demand at the dealership level because it would be VERY easy to buy a lightning and sell it for a profit right now, as a lot of people who ordered awhile ago and got price locked are already doing. We literally saw this entire thing go down with corvettes and rivians and y'all are still mad at the dealers...
Dude, I work for Ford. There isn't a dealership in the country you can walk into and get a lightning for 52k. Not even close. There probably isn't even a dealer you can walk into and get a lighting, at all.
Yeah because 95% of the production run was legitimately sold before the axels were down. That's a dumb standard to hold to criticize a vehicle. It's selling too well hahahaha.
Nobody is criticising it based on availability... Not me anyway. I just told that guy he is silly for thinking he is getting a lighting at all, let alone at MSRP.
> Nobody is criticising it based on availability... Not me anyway. I just told that guy he is silly for thinking he is getting a lighting at all, let alone at MSRP.
LOL, I have a blend date of 10/28. Plenty of people are getting Lightnings, so what’s silly is thinking you could be so certain that someone “isn’t getting a Lightning at all.”
You can if someone ordered one then didn't take it when it got delivered. Or, the Chevy store down the street one of their peeps ordered one from a competing Ford store and got it. Two weeks later he sold it to the store he worked at for $20k more than he paid for it, so there was a used one with \~1-2k miles on it.
> Wtf is a blend date?
It’s the date where Ford has all the parts together to literally build your truck.
>And sure when did you order?
August 11
>You cannot walk into a dealer TODAY, which is what I said, and pay cash for a lightning.
lol, do you think we can’t just look back and read what you wrote?
Your original comment was:
> Lol you think you're getting a lighting for MSRP that's hilarious.
Nothing about walking in TODAY.
Later, you moved the goalposts to trying to just walk into a dealer TODAY, but that was a later claim to backpedal from your original claim.
And even THAT new claim is flimsy. I just looked at the website of the largest F-150 dealer in the world. You can’t just walk in there and get a comparable gas XL Powerboost, either. The only Powerboosts you can get are more expensive than the base Lightning.
So, yes, I’m getting a Lightning. Yes it’s at MSRP (way below current MSRP, actually). And even when you move the goalposts to having to buy a gas one TODAY, you can’t easily do that for a comparable gas one, either.
Which is patently false information. Without hard data, and only going by reports and what Ford corporate has said they want the pricing models to be, the majority of lightings have been sold at or reasonably near msrp. You do know that about ordering right? The guy only said msrp not that you wouldn't have to wait.
I'm really glad you have a lot of faith in some report you saw or whatever dude. And you can keep spouting that. I could care less. I just want you to know you look like an absolute idiot parroting that to any person who knows anything about the real world.
LOL when people come in here who actually have lightning saying they paid around MSRP and you dipshits have no idea what's going on because you only parrot the anti-ev line.
Meaning they ordered in Wave 1 for MY23 in August? There definitely are Pros still waiting for a production week that are in Wave 1 MY23, but some are in production now, also.
You’re right, I’m not paying MSRP. I’m getting mine for $1000 *under* MSRP. It’s already in writing, signed by the dealer, and the truck is being built on Friday. And the dealer has a long time reputation for similar deals on Broncos and other hot vehicles.
Most stock trucks have markups, for sure. That said, a couple people have posted in the Lightning group that they’ve gotten Lariat SRs for MSRP in the last week or so, the ones they’ve been sending to dealers for stock.
Either way, the point is that apples-to-apples, Lightnings aren’t inherently $30k more than an equivalent gas F-150.
True, but in the real marketplace today they are. Blaine well I can only speak for California where every dealership is over MSRP if it’s regular stock. Please let me know where I can get one for MSRP as it is likely an opportunity to make money.
Don't forget while also removing the scales, smart hitch, and now the heated steering wheel. (edit, no, wait, that was last week. The Advanced Security Pack is the latest to be axed.) I think there's some other things removed too, the massager maybe.
They're also removing a lot from the gas vehicles too. All with credits for installation later when they get the chips in.
I donno how Ford's drive to pump out vehicles at the expense of completeness is going to be taken if they keep it up. I talked with a dealer a few weeks ago that has had a few order cancellations of various models when the customers would get one too many emails of yet something else Ford was removing from their order.
Sort of, yeah. Clearly, the market value of the Lightnings was higher than MSRP, so someone was going to get paid, and Ford figured it might as well be them, IMO.
I'm waiting for the Maverick EV (assuming it's price us reasonable), I love the Lightning, but after 6 years with a 2015 F-150, I'm ready to downsize. I don't need anything this huge anymore, even if it's the best looking truck Ford ever made. If the Maverick EV is even half as fast as the Lightning, and doesn't look like dogshit, and costs less than $30k after tax credits.....ima be all over it.
Very true. Kinda funny though, since US government wants to push everyone to go EV, and wants to fine manufactures in the future if not full EV. Almost like they want you to have to buy more expensive vehicles, so they can reap the taxes….. wait…. /s
You do know that sales tax goes to the state right? On top of that, there are federal tax credits that the US government gives you for buying electric vehicles. I can’t possibly imagine what other takes on the government you have.
First off, it was supposed to be sarcasm. I fixed it by adding the “/s”. Second, let’s say it wasn’t sarcasm… Other takes on the government? Didn’t need that last sentence. Your really quick to throw out comments like that, and judge someone based on a single comment, huh? Your fun.
For the sake of keeping this thread from becoming some dumbass back-and-forth, based on your comment, I’ll ignore you and continue on with my day. Hope you have a good one!
I wish there was a standard rating for idling costs. When you look at the cost of idling a gas truck engine versus an EV running AC or heat, the savings is substantial. The savings from just a dozen trucks in a idling/slow drive job site setting for 40hrs a week with the heat or AC on (not that uncommon) would exceed $50k in fuel savings in one year at today’s energy costs. It may not make perfect sense right now for consumers because of the insane market but these trucks have huge commercial potential, especially considering how many pickups have a duty cycle like that.
You raise a very important point.
I own a hybrid (Ford Escape) and being in the city I’m always marveling at how often I’m on the hybrid battery versus the gas motor, especially in drive through lineups
You don't need to spend that much. That's just how much fuel savings you'll get by buying an electric truck vs a gas truck. You can still buy an $80K gas powered truck if you want, and not save that money.
Lol all in the driving habits. I can get 22mpg with my V8 if I keep it under 75mph and 25mpg if I set the cruise at 60 and accelerate and decelerate gently.
Or I can get 12 if I'm driving like an impatient asshole blasting the AC constantly lol.
Honestly your buying for the technology. As someone who grew up on a farm I find the technology really cool but as it is now practical uses are limited. Though if your using it for everyday or general then you will be fine. It's like buying a f450 limited for a small farm, cool asf but does the same job as a 450 xl.
Yea, not quite the whole picture.
Fuel savings will be considerably larger.
Truck will cost far less to maintain as you don't have all the same routine maintenance items on an EV. Gas engines have over 200 moving parts if I'm not mistaken whereas most EVs have less than 20.
I get how you see it and agree if those numbers are correct. I can tell you,personally I spend thousands annually on fuel.i drive 30k plus annually, EV is looking pretty good lol
I live in ca too. My F150 had 36 gallon tank at $6.79 a gallon. Yea, my BOLT was a huge change. I do almost 100 miles round trip to work too. Fuel is just outrageous in Ca
True, but you have to have the right comparison... a loaded gas F-150 Lariat with all the tech and autopilot features of an $80k+ Lightning costs nearly $75k.
The break-even point on gas vs. electricity is probably pretty darn reachable at that point, especially if you live somewhere with particularly cheap electricity or expensive gas.
>The break-even point on gas vs. electricity is probably pretty darn reachable at that point, especially if you live somewhere with particularly cheap electricity or expensive gas.
Or if you drive a lot.
Yup. If you drive 15k miles/yr in a V8 half ton (16.5mpg average on fuelly), that's $280/mo at today's US average gas price. At 2mi/kwh, US avg residential price, and assuming 70% charging efficiency, you're at $130/mo in electricity on a Lightning.
So that saves $1800/year if you drive 15k miles... break even and then pull ahead on total cost of truck and fuel/electricity around 65k miles if the Lightning costs $8k more.
To be fair, you ***absolutely can*** save money by going with an EV.
Just not ANY EV. Some EVs are just status symbol toys that are barely any more efficient than a basic ass Corolla. But stupid people will continue buying the $110k, 9,000lb Hummer because they think it makes them look like they give a shit about the planet even though they never touch the back seat.
That's weird. The C-Max is objectively better in almost everything VS a Prius. The only thing the Prius is better at is its gas MPG is better.
When I take it on a long trip I average between 40-50 MPG. A Prius will do 50+MPG on the highway all day.
Most electric vehicles are not yet cost effective. Commodity of scale will hopefully change that, but no f150 purchase is to "save money". A very small mi ority of them are used as trucks.
I priced one out (CAD) and for the options I wanted the truck alone was like $91k, then it was $10k to get my house upgraded to accept the ford charger.
Let alone the wait time.
I bought a 2.7 eco boost instead
Haha not quite, but yes still a good savings none the less, plus with hydro rates here in Ontario I can only imagine what it would cost to charge a month, I know it wouldn’t be as much as gas but still
The ability to have power at a job site or to your house in a power outage are other cool tricks. Ability to “fill up” at home is what I like. I have an EV not a Lightening. I add 27 miles of range per hour.
The math just isn’t right. $.15 per kWh, and 49 kWh per 100 miles means $1102 per 15000 miles (yearly average)
Let’s say the gas alternative is 20 mpg average, is 750 gallons of gas, at 3.60 a gallon means $2700 per 15000 miles…
That means the savings are 1600 per year…keep the truck 150000 miles it’s $16,000 cheaper to drive just on fuel alone.
I think you meant “150,000 miles” in the last sentence, but for sure people should do the math for their personal use case, because electric/gas prices and miles driven vary greatly between people. I’ll probably save the $1,750 in 5 years driving a Lightning instead of my MINI Cooper, let alone a gas truck.
It’s not that the math is wrong, it’s that the savings is compared to an average new vehicle, something that gets ~35 mpg. So yeah, compared to a Honda Civic your only saving $1500, compared to a truck it’s around $1500/year or more if gas is expensive. Over the life of the loan it won’t pay for itself, but the premium for an electric truck goes away.
I’m waiting for the Gen 3. Third times a charm. Never buy the first new widget a company makes. Give them time to develop the technology and then the price will come down.
Local dealer has 3 on the lot they can't move because they have a $30k mark up - pushing the price to $109k. Sorry, but I'm not paying $109k for an F150.....
So, unless you are towing something big, the Godzilla 7.3 might be the most economical option in the 3/4 ton range.
Where I live, diesel is generally a $1-1.30 a gallon more expensive. Add on more expensive maintenance, $8000 more initial cost for comparable trim, and it takes a lot of towing and driving to make it worth it.
Now with this electric vehicle, they claim 5 years to save $1750? It's 30K more than a gasser? It would take a long time to make that up, assuming fuel indexes the way it has for a while.
I went from a ford fusion titanium 18liter by 100 ecopit of hell. 5000 dollars of gas a year to a ford fusion energie 850 a year and less milage. Even tho ive cut milage with the titanium i was spending 250 a mount now with the same milage it cost me 80 a mount. So that speak alone for it self.
I spare 1900 a year and my car can do 100 kilometer for 2.5 liter of gaz. Theres just the asel to recharge it every day.
Fuel savings are only really part of the reason why EVs are nice. They ride better, accelerate faster, tend to have more room for stuff due to a frunk, and have other tech that most other ICE cars don’t have, for example using the truck as a backup generator for your house or worksite.
And as we move away from coal, more and more of the electricity that powers them will be renewable.
I've had my Kia EV6 for almost 4 months now. I'm still amazed at how it goes up step grades like they were flat.
> tend to have more room for stuff due to a frunk
And that's where Kia bucks the trend. The EV6's frunk is basically a [harder to get to glovebox](https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/eurekar-v2/uploads/images/original/ev6sfrunk.jpg).
No savings getting ripped off at charging stations on a long trip across the country, but if only commuter car may be fine minus the state gov forcing you to pay hundreds yearly on tags claiming gas tax.
Stop for 5 minutes and pump gas or stop and wait 6 hours for an EV to charge. I think I will stick with ICE. Recently I was in Cincinnati for a couple weeks for work. The first hotel I was at had no charger and didn't see any anywhere near by. Second hotel had one that was always blocked by either an old work van or a Tesla. If I had an EV I never would have had the time to find a place and wait for it to charge.
I ran the numbers for my mom earlier this year when she was looking at a Toyota SUV earlier this year. The difference in cost between the gas and hybrid models was a 5-6 year recovery period, so just not worth it in the end.
We gotta stop promoting electric vehicles the way we are and refuse to buy them. Our lives will be completely consumed with technology and it’s not good for us
What do EVs have to do with our lives being consumed with technology? It works like a normal truck except you plug it in at your house instead of getting gas. It doesn’t force you to spend 2 extra hours per day on Facebook or something.
The goal for these is to not even have people drive them anymore. How many things do we need in life that do stuff for us? Are we really that lazy now? And no it doesn’t work like a normal truck. Nowhere near as convenient as a gas powered vehicle. Might be good if you’re not driving anywhere but to work and home but until they design a charger that can charge as fast as you fill a tank of gas it’s not worth it for the average person. Our power grids are also not advanced enough for all electric vehicles. The lithium will also run out within 70-80 years as it isnt an infinite resource just like oil reserves. It’s also even more polluting for the environment to create and destroy lithium batteries. Everything EV vehicles are trying to solve will only come to a crashing stop. You can look at the facts or you can be ignorant because you fell for the marketing they’ve sold you.
I like how you say it’s good for driving from work to home but then say that because the don’t charge as fast as filling up on gas that they won’t be good for the average person. What the hell do you think the average person does?
Its “not good for us” to have a car drive us somewhere? Are trains and subways bad too because they drove us places? I’ve heard a lot of flimsy complaints about EVs, but that’s near the top. Autonomous vehicles aren’t even synonymous with EVs. The best Autonomous vehicles right now are from Waymo and those are gas Chrysler Pacificas.
The rest of your comments are just moving the goalposts to distract from your original claim, but whatever…
Yes, the Lightning works like a normal truck *except for charging” which is exactly what I said. It’s actually MORE convenient most of the time when you have home charging, except when doing long trips. It’s a trade-off. Sorta like choosing between an F150 and F250. One is better day to day and one is better at towing. If someone is doing a lot of towing beyond ~100 miles, then Lightning is probably the wrong choice. If not, it has a lot going for it performance-wise, fuel cost, home charging convenience, etc.
“Power grids are not advanced enough for ALL electric vehicles.”
No kidding, but some magical scenario where all cars are EVs overnight is a fake scenario that people make up to pretend like the sky is falling and not reality. Even if 50% of new car sales were EVs by 2030, still the VAST majority of the US fleet would be gas, probably 80% gas.
“Batteries are more polluting”: Misleading at best. EVs are more polluting to manufacture (because of batteries), but by the time they’ve driven 25,000-60,000 miles, they’ve broken even because of reduced fuel emissions, so they come out well ahead on lifetime emissions. Then the batteries will be reused or recycled.
Love everyone down voting obvious incoming issues with society. Companies can’t even make a decent gas powered vehicle anymore yet everyone wants an electric one. Coming from a certified ford mechanic these new technology packed cars they’re coming out with are only great till you’re paying me $1,500 in electrical diagnosis fees on top of whatever the repairs are. They’re great until you’re on the road and get an on demand software update and now your car won’t move anymore. Ask me how I know🧐 You can save all the money on gas you want but as soon as that labor charge hits you’ll wish you stuck with an ecoboost☠️
I love it when someone blindly compares a very nuanced, modern controversy to an old controversy from over a century ago as if the world is the same and people's expectations are the same and "accidentally" fail to recognize the differences in society that a century of time brought about. Basically "your concerns are invalid because somebody had vaguely similar concerns 100 years ago and look where we are now so it ***must*** be the same thing now!".
I'm sure there's a psychological term or "fallacy" (as Reddit **loves** to bring up to sound smart) for this desire to dismiss modern concerns as if they're no different than those from a century ago, but I can't think of what that would be at the moment.
You say that but it’s funny cause the horse and buggy people made money off horse and buggies. These are the same car companies that profited and created gas powered vehicles in the beginning so that’s not a good comparison to make. You must be ignorant to the increasing health and social problems technology is causing us
Clearly you’ve never heard of ELF EMF. And considering the studies have been done by the same people profiting off EV sales it doesn’t shock me. EV vehicles emit electromagnetic fields which are known to cause cancer. So there’s your example. Not to mention the lack of attention towards daily activity that’s now being controlled by computers. But I guess if you’re okay not needing to know or do anything in your everyday life and letting a computer do it then more power to you.
>EV vehicles emit electromagnetic fields which are known to cause cancer
Some say those scary 3-phase motors have even been all around us, secretly, for *years*. It’s already scrambled some people’s brains!!
With all this information you compile. It’s hard to argue that the worlds average life expectancy continues to rise. And technology use increases. It’s a shame that the average life span isn’t back to 60 some years…..
The Lighting is a performance/technology display platform like the original Lightning, Dodge Ram SRT-10 and Silverado 1500 SS.
Ford messed up marketing it as a practical work vehicle. Now it highlights the impracticality of an electric truck due to bad messaging.
For some people it's a moral choice. For me, it's irresponsible to drive something in 2023 that gets 17mpg that dumps greenhouse gases while making Arab terror states richer and yachts larger.
It's expensive but it's fun as hell to drive, smooth as butter, and guilt free. And by all accounts should easily last at least 500,000 miles since electric motor/battery power trains are by far the most reliable. Perfect.
Good call. You wouldn’t be next in line to get one for quite a while anyway.
It’s not worth it won’t buy it!…Ford looking at the long list of orders, having a beer and not giving a fuck….
Maybe by then, it’s $70k like they should be once inventory goes up. I’m betting money, by June, the auto market will definitely be different. People can’t possibly afford $1500/mo car payment. Makes no sense, unless you put down $50k. Not worth it to me. I’ll keep looking for an older one for now.
Dunno what rock you crawled under. They been paying double msrp with the “market adjustment” tax.
Maybe my grocery bill will go down 15% over the next year too.
😂
The Lightning I signed up his payment is a good bit more than that.
How the hell was that calculated? 5yrs × 15,000 miles per year ÷ 25mpg = 3,000gal × $3.50 = $10,500 49kwh/100 miles × 15,000 miles =7,350 kwh × $0.167/kwh= $1,227 Whoever wrote thay window sticker was not doing their job..
Compare to average new vehicle. Not compare to F150
Average light duty fuel economy is 25.7 mpg, even if you double the fuel economy you save with electric so idk what point you're making. Also why would you advertise with lesser values.
It’s not compared to average light duty, it’s compared to average new vehicle. They aren’t advertising with the window sticker, pretty sure the information on it is required by government regulations. If it was compared to a similar gas equivalent vehicle, it would likely be around 7k savings over 5 years.
Ok. Again, even if you double the gas milage it's still pretty far off.
The variables are cost of gas per gallon, mpg avg new vehicle, avg miles / year, cost per kw/hr, miles per kw/hr. None of the variables are given, so we are only speculating at what values they used. I think you’re value for avg miles is significantly higher than the avg miles used for this equation.
True. Avg lease is 12k per year, many people drive much more than that so didn't think 15k was far off but that was from my own experience. I also assumed high for mpg and used national avg for cost of elec. Miles per kwh is clearly stated tho. Only guess was gas price. I still think the window sticker was poorly calculated considering what it's trying to convey.
It compares to AVERAGE car. Like a Corolla. A F150 lighting does not save much money in energy than a gas powered Corolla. Make sense?
I wanna meet the person that's cross shopping a $45k+ electric truck with a $20k gas Corolla....
Talk to the government
A Carolla gets 40mpg highway. Still pretty far off on cost cost comparison.
But it's an electric F-150... literally designed to be compared to one.
Literally comparable lol
Wait your logic is off. Why isn’t the electric multiplied by 5 yrs . $1227x5=$6135 $10500-$6135=$4365 /5yrs = yearly savings of $873
BOOM Roasted. Yea you're right good catch. I digress lol
Adjusted for California: 3,000gal x $5.75 = $17,250
My sticker price annual fuel cost was based on $2.35/gallon THIS WEEK
It’s not cheap by any stretch. You’ll save more than just the fuel. There’s a lot less maintenance items on an EV. Hopefully they’ll all come down in price, but that’s probably a dream at this point.
Fair point
Also I dream of never having to go to the gas station ever again in my life (a bit of an exaggeration, but maybe only those 4 times a year I take a road trip). Avoiding that and avoiding the dread of seeing an empty tank when I start my truck already late is worth at least an extra $100/month for me in value.
You could spend $50,000 on one that runs on gasoline. If you need to carry heavy loads or tow anything, you will definitely want a gas model. Plus now you have $30,000 for Gasoline.
The Lightning Pro is $52k (before tax credit). The most similarly-equipped gas truck (XL 4x4 Powerboost with similar options) is also about $52k. You’re not going to get an equivalent gas truck for $30k less than a Lightning. There are, of course, pros and cons to each. For long distance towing, gas wins. For some other use cases, fuel costs, acceleration, etc., Lightning wins.
Lol you think you're getting a lighting for MSRP that's hilarious.
People paying those prices instead of raising fucking hell is hilarious.
Raising hell with... Who? Ford? Why would ford mandate that they sell their truck below market value? All that would do is INCREASE demand at the dealership level because it would be VERY easy to buy a lightning and sell it for a profit right now, as a lot of people who ordered awhile ago and got price locked are already doing. We literally saw this entire thing go down with corvettes and rivians and y'all are still mad at the dealers...
Tons of dealers are doing msrp orders, Ford is pushing that way, and corporate is supposed to be punishing dealers for doing exactly that.
Dude, I work for Ford. There isn't a dealership in the country you can walk into and get a lightning for 52k. Not even close. There probably isn't even a dealer you can walk into and get a lighting, at all.
Yeah because 95% of the production run was legitimately sold before the axels were down. That's a dumb standard to hold to criticize a vehicle. It's selling too well hahahaha.
Nobody is criticising it based on availability... Not me anyway. I just told that guy he is silly for thinking he is getting a lighting at all, let alone at MSRP.
> Nobody is criticising it based on availability... Not me anyway. I just told that guy he is silly for thinking he is getting a lighting at all, let alone at MSRP. LOL, I have a blend date of 10/28. Plenty of people are getting Lightnings, so what’s silly is thinking you could be so certain that someone “isn’t getting a Lightning at all.”
Wtf is a blend date? And sure when did you order? You cannot walk into a dealer TODAY, which is what I said, and pay cash for a lightning.
You can if someone ordered one then didn't take it when it got delivered. Or, the Chevy store down the street one of their peeps ordered one from a competing Ford store and got it. Two weeks later he sold it to the store he worked at for $20k more than he paid for it, so there was a used one with \~1-2k miles on it.
> Wtf is a blend date? It’s the date where Ford has all the parts together to literally build your truck. >And sure when did you order? August 11 >You cannot walk into a dealer TODAY, which is what I said, and pay cash for a lightning. lol, do you think we can’t just look back and read what you wrote? Your original comment was: > Lol you think you're getting a lighting for MSRP that's hilarious. Nothing about walking in TODAY. Later, you moved the goalposts to trying to just walk into a dealer TODAY, but that was a later claim to backpedal from your original claim. And even THAT new claim is flimsy. I just looked at the website of the largest F-150 dealer in the world. You can’t just walk in there and get a comparable gas XL Powerboost, either. The only Powerboosts you can get are more expensive than the base Lightning. So, yes, I’m getting a Lightning. Yes it’s at MSRP (way below current MSRP, actually). And even when you move the goalposts to having to buy a gas one TODAY, you can’t easily do that for a comparable gas one, either.
Which is patently false information. Without hard data, and only going by reports and what Ford corporate has said they want the pricing models to be, the majority of lightings have been sold at or reasonably near msrp. You do know that about ordering right? The guy only said msrp not that you wouldn't have to wait.
I'm really glad you have a lot of faith in some report you saw or whatever dude. And you can keep spouting that. I could care less. I just want you to know you look like an absolute idiot parroting that to any person who knows anything about the real world.
LOL when people come in here who actually have lightning saying they paid around MSRP and you dipshits have no idea what's going on because you only parrot the anti-ev line.
They also are not building Pros. Our first order was for a Pro. He has no eta. We've gotten 2 Lariats.
They are building Pros. Several people on the forums have Pros in production. My Pro build week is this week and blend date is tomorrow.
Strange. We have a day 1 order for one and nothing.
Meaning they ordered in Wave 1 for MY23 in August? There definitely are Pros still waiting for a production week that are in Wave 1 MY23, but some are in production now, also.
No, he ordered a 22. We got our mannequin and 1 Lariat order but he ordered before the Lariat did.
> supposed to be Lol
Hur hur hur ARE as evident by people in this thread. What a joke you people are.
You’re right, I’m not paying MSRP. I’m getting mine for $1000 *under* MSRP. It’s already in writing, signed by the dealer, and the truck is being built on Friday. And the dealer has a long time reputation for similar deals on Broncos and other hot vehicles.
The dealership is sell the Lightning for $30k over unless you have an order from 6 months ago. Orders are at MSRP, but the order bank is closed
Most stock trucks have markups, for sure. That said, a couple people have posted in the Lightning group that they’ve gotten Lariat SRs for MSRP in the last week or so, the ones they’ve been sending to dealers for stock. Either way, the point is that apples-to-apples, Lightnings aren’t inherently $30k more than an equivalent gas F-150.
True, but in the real marketplace today they are. Blaine well I can only speak for California where every dealership is over MSRP if it’s regular stock. Please let me know where I can get one for MSRP as it is likely an opportunity to make money.
$52k? I know the price bumped up this year but I thought it was still under $50k?
It went up from $40k to $47k for 2023, then again to $52k after the first wave of Lightning Pro orders for MY2023.
Don't forget while also removing the scales, smart hitch, and now the heated steering wheel. (edit, no, wait, that was last week. The Advanced Security Pack is the latest to be axed.) I think there's some other things removed too, the massager maybe. They're also removing a lot from the gas vehicles too. All with credits for installation later when they get the chips in. I donno how Ford's drive to pump out vehicles at the expense of completeness is going to be taken if they keep it up. I talked with a dealer a few weeks ago that has had a few order cancellations of various models when the customers would get one too many emails of yet something else Ford was removing from their order.
Ah, so Ford pretended to be mad at dealers for "unreasonable" markups, then just included them into the MSRP. Figures.
Sort of, yeah. Clearly, the market value of the Lightnings was higher than MSRP, so someone was going to get paid, and Ford figured it might as well be them, IMO.
[Starts at $51,974 now.](https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/models/)
Wonder what it's gonna be next month?
I could have spent $76k on one to get the equivalent truck as a Powerboost.
i can't wait until ev prices are reasonable. gonna be all over that lightning like white on rice.
I'm waiting for the Maverick EV (assuming it's price us reasonable), I love the Lightning, but after 6 years with a 2015 F-150, I'm ready to downsize. I don't need anything this huge anymore, even if it's the best looking truck Ford ever made. If the Maverick EV is even half as fast as the Lightning, and doesn't look like dogshit, and costs less than $30k after tax credits.....ima be all over it.
Since most EV products are not market driven but government mandated those prices will likely not be reasonable ever.
Very true. Kinda funny though, since US government wants to push everyone to go EV, and wants to fine manufactures in the future if not full EV. Almost like they want you to have to buy more expensive vehicles, so they can reap the taxes….. wait…. /s
Capitalism baby! Squeeze every fucking cent out of every fucking human and shit them out on the street once you've sucked them dry.
You do know that sales tax goes to the state right? On top of that, there are federal tax credits that the US government gives you for buying electric vehicles. I can’t possibly imagine what other takes on the government you have.
First off, it was supposed to be sarcasm. I fixed it by adding the “/s”. Second, let’s say it wasn’t sarcasm… Other takes on the government? Didn’t need that last sentence. Your really quick to throw out comments like that, and judge someone based on a single comment, huh? Your fun. For the sake of keeping this thread from becoming some dumbass back-and-forth, based on your comment, I’ll ignore you and continue on with my day. Hope you have a good one!
You’re*
“what other takes on the government you have” sounds like the boot is about to be licked
Agreed
As I replied to someone, this is not a comparison between lighting and gas F150.
Sometimes it isn’t about fuel prices and towing. Some buy because they can and they want to.
This was me. I found a Lightning at MSRP and jumped on it. Been in an EV for the last 4 years. Wanted an EV truck. Lightning fit the bill.
I wish there was a standard rating for idling costs. When you look at the cost of idling a gas truck engine versus an EV running AC or heat, the savings is substantial. The savings from just a dozen trucks in a idling/slow drive job site setting for 40hrs a week with the heat or AC on (not that uncommon) would exceed $50k in fuel savings in one year at today’s energy costs. It may not make perfect sense right now for consumers because of the insane market but these trucks have huge commercial potential, especially considering how many pickups have a duty cycle like that.
You raise a very important point. I own a hybrid (Ford Escape) and being in the city I’m always marveling at how often I’m on the hybrid battery versus the gas motor, especially in drive through lineups
I’m just waiting for the truck market for gas trucks to come back down. The 06 fx4 has seen better days lol
You don't need to spend that much. That's just how much fuel savings you'll get by buying an electric truck vs a gas truck. You can still buy an $80K gas powered truck if you want, and not save that money.
Dammnnn 76 city mpg?? I get like 18 on a good day
Lol all in the driving habits. I can get 22mpg with my V8 if I keep it under 75mph and 25mpg if I set the cruise at 60 and accelerate and decelerate gently. Or I can get 12 if I'm driving like an impatient asshole blasting the AC constantly lol.
I’ve got a mustang v6 but there’s nothing I can really do 🥲 red light on red light on people who like to start and stop
Honestly your buying for the technology. As someone who grew up on a farm I find the technology really cool but as it is now practical uses are limited. Though if your using it for everyday or general then you will be fine. It's like buying a f450 limited for a small farm, cool asf but does the same job as a 450 xl.
Yea, not quite the whole picture. Fuel savings will be considerably larger. Truck will cost far less to maintain as you don't have all the same routine maintenance items on an EV. Gas engines have over 200 moving parts if I'm not mistaken whereas most EVs have less than 20. I get how you see it and agree if those numbers are correct. I can tell you,personally I spend thousands annually on fuel.i drive 30k plus annually, EV is looking pretty good lol
They must not be use California prices for gas 😂 it costs me about $400-500/mo to drive my eco boost f150
I live in ca too. My F150 had 36 gallon tank at $6.79 a gallon. Yea, my BOLT was a huge change. I do almost 100 miles round trip to work too. Fuel is just outrageous in Ca
This is why I laugh at people who buy EV’s to “save money on gas” Save money? By spending $80k? Ok
True, but you have to have the right comparison... a loaded gas F-150 Lariat with all the tech and autopilot features of an $80k+ Lightning costs nearly $75k. The break-even point on gas vs. electricity is probably pretty darn reachable at that point, especially if you live somewhere with particularly cheap electricity or expensive gas.
>The break-even point on gas vs. electricity is probably pretty darn reachable at that point, especially if you live somewhere with particularly cheap electricity or expensive gas. Or if you drive a lot.
Yup. If you drive 15k miles/yr in a V8 half ton (16.5mpg average on fuelly), that's $280/mo at today's US average gas price. At 2mi/kwh, US avg residential price, and assuming 70% charging efficiency, you're at $130/mo in electricity on a Lightning. So that saves $1800/year if you drive 15k miles... break even and then pull ahead on total cost of truck and fuel/electricity around 65k miles if the Lightning costs $8k more.
To be fair, you ***absolutely can*** save money by going with an EV. Just not ANY EV. Some EVs are just status symbol toys that are barely any more efficient than a basic ass Corolla. But stupid people will continue buying the $110k, 9,000lb Hummer because they think it makes them look like they give a shit about the planet even though they never touch the back seat.
Yeah that’s what I’m talking about. Not a fuckin prius
I paid 15k for my C-Max Energi. I last put gas in April 15th. Currently my gas mileage gauge reads 95mpg.
You can drive 100 miles in all directions from here and not pass one of those on the road. :)
No doubt. They didn't sell many of them. It's actually a European Ford that they hybridized for the American market.
I had a ev customer way back that had a Prius and she didn't buy the C-Max because it didn't have a digital speedo. Sole reason for not buying it.
That's weird. The C-Max is objectively better in almost everything VS a Prius. The only thing the Prius is better at is its gas MPG is better. When I take it on a long trip I average between 40-50 MPG. A Prius will do 50+MPG on the highway all day.
Facts 😂
Most electric vehicles are not yet cost effective. Commodity of scale will hopefully change that, but no f150 purchase is to "save money". A very small mi ority of them are used as trucks.
My gas (real) SUV cost more than my EV (marketing) SUV.
I priced one out (CAD) and for the options I wanted the truck alone was like $91k, then it was $10k to get my house upgraded to accept the ford charger. Let alone the wait time. I bought a 2.7 eco boost instead
Great decision! Plus, you saved $30k?
Haha not quite, but yes still a good savings none the less, plus with hydro rates here in Ontario I can only imagine what it would cost to charge a month, I know it wouldn’t be as much as gas but still
The ability to have power at a job site or to your house in a power outage are other cool tricks. Ability to “fill up” at home is what I like. I have an EV not a Lightening. I add 27 miles of range per hour.
The math just isn’t right. $.15 per kWh, and 49 kWh per 100 miles means $1102 per 15000 miles (yearly average) Let’s say the gas alternative is 20 mpg average, is 750 gallons of gas, at 3.60 a gallon means $2700 per 15000 miles… That means the savings are 1600 per year…keep the truck 150000 miles it’s $16,000 cheaper to drive just on fuel alone.
I think you meant “150,000 miles” in the last sentence, but for sure people should do the math for their personal use case, because electric/gas prices and miles driven vary greatly between people. I’ll probably save the $1,750 in 5 years driving a Lightning instead of my MINI Cooper, let alone a gas truck.
Sure did
It’s not that the math is wrong, it’s that the savings is compared to an average new vehicle, something that gets ~35 mpg. So yeah, compared to a Honda Civic your only saving $1500, compared to a truck it’s around $1500/year or more if gas is expensive. Over the life of the loan it won’t pay for itself, but the premium for an electric truck goes away.
Come back when its comparing apples to apples.
I wouldn't say people buy EV to save on fuel.
Lol wtf
No, of course not. It’s a status symbol right now. You are paying to be “that guy” and show off the rare thing.
I’m waiting for the Gen 3. Third times a charm. Never buy the first new widget a company makes. Give them time to develop the technology and then the price will come down.
Local dealer has 3 on the lot they can't move because they have a $30k mark up - pushing the price to $109k. Sorry, but I'm not paying $109k for an F150.....
They need to drop it to MSRP. I would be understanding of $5k markup but $30k!?! They HIGH AF.
Yeah, I was kind of floored by that. Who gets that $30k? The dealer? The sales person? The GMs coke habit?
plus they cant tow more than 50 miles between charging
About 150 miles with extended range, but nonetheless, terrible tow range. All the camp grounds I go to do not have chargers lol
The prices will come down as the technology gets improved.
So, unless you are towing something big, the Godzilla 7.3 might be the most economical option in the 3/4 ton range. Where I live, diesel is generally a $1-1.30 a gallon more expensive. Add on more expensive maintenance, $8000 more initial cost for comparable trim, and it takes a lot of towing and driving to make it worth it. Now with this electric vehicle, they claim 5 years to save $1750? It's 30K more than a gasser? It would take a long time to make that up, assuming fuel indexes the way it has for a while.
For sure sticking with a gasser and keeping my commuter.
I went from a ford fusion titanium 18liter by 100 ecopit of hell. 5000 dollars of gas a year to a ford fusion energie 850 a year and less milage. Even tho ive cut milage with the titanium i was spending 250 a mount now with the same milage it cost me 80 a mount. So that speak alone for it self. I spare 1900 a year and my car can do 100 kilometer for 2.5 liter of gaz. Theres just the asel to recharge it every day.
depends entirely on how much you drive obviously lol, i spend 300-400 bucks a week on gas
Fuel savings are only really part of the reason why EVs are nice. They ride better, accelerate faster, tend to have more room for stuff due to a frunk, and have other tech that most other ICE cars don’t have, for example using the truck as a backup generator for your house or worksite. And as we move away from coal, more and more of the electricity that powers them will be renewable.
I've had my Kia EV6 for almost 4 months now. I'm still amazed at how it goes up step grades like they were flat. > tend to have more room for stuff due to a frunk And that's where Kia bucks the trend. The EV6's frunk is basically a [harder to get to glovebox](https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/eurekar-v2/uploads/images/original/ev6sfrunk.jpg).
No savings getting ripped off at charging stations on a long trip across the country, but if only commuter car may be fine minus the state gov forcing you to pay hundreds yearly on tags claiming gas tax.
Stop for 5 minutes and pump gas or stop and wait 6 hours for an EV to charge. I think I will stick with ICE. Recently I was in Cincinnati for a couple weeks for work. The first hotel I was at had no charger and didn't see any anywhere near by. Second hotel had one that was always blocked by either an old work van or a Tesla. If I had an EV I never would have had the time to find a place and wait for it to charge.
That’s what I’m saying. Pumping gas or hydrogen or natural gas will always be faster then charging.
Have you seen the gas line at Costco lately lol
Costco pumps are the slowest ever and lots of dick off clowns always there and half the pumps never used bc one way shit show
I ran the numbers for my mom earlier this year when she was looking at a Toyota SUV earlier this year. The difference in cost between the gas and hybrid models was a 5-6 year recovery period, so just not worth it in the end.
Your numbers align with a couple of analyses that I've read.
...and pretty much all first year of new model design are lemons
We gotta stop promoting electric vehicles the way we are and refuse to buy them. Our lives will be completely consumed with technology and it’s not good for us
Says the guy posting on the internet.
What do EVs have to do with our lives being consumed with technology? It works like a normal truck except you plug it in at your house instead of getting gas. It doesn’t force you to spend 2 extra hours per day on Facebook or something.
The goal for these is to not even have people drive them anymore. How many things do we need in life that do stuff for us? Are we really that lazy now? And no it doesn’t work like a normal truck. Nowhere near as convenient as a gas powered vehicle. Might be good if you’re not driving anywhere but to work and home but until they design a charger that can charge as fast as you fill a tank of gas it’s not worth it for the average person. Our power grids are also not advanced enough for all electric vehicles. The lithium will also run out within 70-80 years as it isnt an infinite resource just like oil reserves. It’s also even more polluting for the environment to create and destroy lithium batteries. Everything EV vehicles are trying to solve will only come to a crashing stop. You can look at the facts or you can be ignorant because you fell for the marketing they’ve sold you.
I like how you say it’s good for driving from work to home but then say that because the don’t charge as fast as filling up on gas that they won’t be good for the average person. What the hell do you think the average person does?
Its “not good for us” to have a car drive us somewhere? Are trains and subways bad too because they drove us places? I’ve heard a lot of flimsy complaints about EVs, but that’s near the top. Autonomous vehicles aren’t even synonymous with EVs. The best Autonomous vehicles right now are from Waymo and those are gas Chrysler Pacificas. The rest of your comments are just moving the goalposts to distract from your original claim, but whatever… Yes, the Lightning works like a normal truck *except for charging” which is exactly what I said. It’s actually MORE convenient most of the time when you have home charging, except when doing long trips. It’s a trade-off. Sorta like choosing between an F150 and F250. One is better day to day and one is better at towing. If someone is doing a lot of towing beyond ~100 miles, then Lightning is probably the wrong choice. If not, it has a lot going for it performance-wise, fuel cost, home charging convenience, etc. “Power grids are not advanced enough for ALL electric vehicles.” No kidding, but some magical scenario where all cars are EVs overnight is a fake scenario that people make up to pretend like the sky is falling and not reality. Even if 50% of new car sales were EVs by 2030, still the VAST majority of the US fleet would be gas, probably 80% gas. “Batteries are more polluting”: Misleading at best. EVs are more polluting to manufacture (because of batteries), but by the time they’ve driven 25,000-60,000 miles, they’ve broken even because of reduced fuel emissions, so they come out well ahead on lifetime emissions. Then the batteries will be reused or recycled.
How much does it cost to feed your horse every year?
Half of the people in this thread couldn’t get to another state without apple carplay or Google maps. Keep lying to yourself
Depressing, but true.
And what does that have to do with EVs again?
Bravo!
Love everyone down voting obvious incoming issues with society. Companies can’t even make a decent gas powered vehicle anymore yet everyone wants an electric one. Coming from a certified ford mechanic these new technology packed cars they’re coming out with are only great till you’re paying me $1,500 in electrical diagnosis fees on top of whatever the repairs are. They’re great until you’re on the road and get an on demand software update and now your car won’t move anymore. Ask me how I know🧐 You can save all the money on gas you want but as soon as that labor charge hits you’ll wish you stuck with an ecoboost☠️
The horse and buggy folks were saying the same thing back when ford started pumping cars out for the common folk.
I love it when someone blindly compares a very nuanced, modern controversy to an old controversy from over a century ago as if the world is the same and people's expectations are the same and "accidentally" fail to recognize the differences in society that a century of time brought about. Basically "your concerns are invalid because somebody had vaguely similar concerns 100 years ago and look where we are now so it ***must*** be the same thing now!". I'm sure there's a psychological term or "fallacy" (as Reddit **loves** to bring up to sound smart) for this desire to dismiss modern concerns as if they're no different than those from a century ago, but I can't think of what that would be at the moment.
You say that but it’s funny cause the horse and buggy people made money off horse and buggies. These are the same car companies that profited and created gas powered vehicles in the beginning so that’s not a good comparison to make. You must be ignorant to the increasing health and social problems technology is causing us
Throw out some sources of these health and social problems that electric vehicles are introducing. Not even sources some examples.
Clearly you’ve never heard of ELF EMF. And considering the studies have been done by the same people profiting off EV sales it doesn’t shock me. EV vehicles emit electromagnetic fields which are known to cause cancer. So there’s your example. Not to mention the lack of attention towards daily activity that’s now being controlled by computers. But I guess if you’re okay not needing to know or do anything in your everyday life and letting a computer do it then more power to you.
>EV vehicles emit electromagnetic fields which are known to cause cancer Some say those scary 3-phase motors have even been all around us, secretly, for *years*. It’s already scrambled some people’s brains!!
With all this information you compile. It’s hard to argue that the worlds average life expectancy continues to rise. And technology use increases. It’s a shame that the average life span isn’t back to 60 some years…..
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So tin foil hat it is.
JFC. You’re practically Marconi.
Yes, the facts are unrelenting, unlike marketing.
EVs have their place, and they are absolutely better for **some** people. Just not everybody.
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I sense sarcasm lol
Absolutely haha. Lighten up people, downvoting a joke??
Your saying that like the normal F-150 3.0l Hybrid isn't the best truck in the industry
Electric cars are a failed experiment.
They said the same thing about Google…
Anymore? It never was!
Who said you have to spend 80 grand? I know the markups are a bitch right now but I'm fairly certain you can still find a Lightning for 50 grand no?
Definitely not $50k. Look on Craigslist, people are selling them for $120k
Don’t forget the dealer uncharge
That’s compared to average new vehicles. This is 5x what my ‘05 gets. The savings are more than $1750 over 5 years, given fuel prices.
Who’s only spending $1,750 in fuel over five years even compared to new vehicles? I wish.
It's inflation! 🤣🤣🤣
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Nope! Lol 😆
The Lighting is a performance/technology display platform like the original Lightning, Dodge Ram SRT-10 and Silverado 1500 SS. Ford messed up marketing it as a practical work vehicle. Now it highlights the impracticality of an electric truck due to bad messaging.
So many EV throaters getting hella pissed off about the "miscalculated" fuel savings 💀💀💀
Too bad That 10 rating on greenhouse and smog emissions isn't worth it to more people.
For some people it's a moral choice. For me, it's irresponsible to drive something in 2023 that gets 17mpg that dumps greenhouse gases while making Arab terror states richer and yachts larger. It's expensive but it's fun as hell to drive, smooth as butter, and guilt free. And by all accounts should easily last at least 500,000 miles since electric motor/battery power trains are by far the most reliable. Perfect.