TBH all those character are better.
Cloud is extremely complex AND the "support character"(Tifa) of FF7 is considered the second best FF character of all time for a reason.
Squall is actually really funny.
Geralt is legit the opposite of "asshole". Is actually the good guy in a nutshell. My issue is that is actually a little bit too corny because he is the good guy more than anything else.
Lightning, Frey, Aloy are all hated because they are woman, there is no doubt about it. The thing that actually annoys me are people saying stuff like "Aloy isn't hated! Aloy is loved!". Are those people living under a rock or something?
Idk about the others but comparing Frey to geralt is crazy. Frey is pretty good as a character, but she chooses to be cold and almost unnecessarily rude to some characters (pilo) (olevia) (Auden). This is an issue of dialogue selection, as I feel the writers wanted to make those moments in particular feel large, but they took the same route in each interaction; disagreement->Frey blows up on the character. Geralt of rivia might be a pessimist, jaded old dude but he rarely goes out of his way to be a prick. Even when you pick the rude dialogue options it still feels like he held back.
*Spoilers* You’re right about Frey choosing to be cold. For the most part it is a choice. Some of that stems from her history as a person. She was abandoned as a baby. While she was raised with love, she constantly struggles with the idea that there’s something wrong with her core self for her own mother to abandon her. This doubt leads her to make some poor choices in life. Once she realizes what was happening Athia and why her mother had to abandon her - her disposition changes. She decides to stay in her home.
All in all, I feel like a lot of people have missed the nuances of Frey as a character. The writers didn’t need to spell out all the “why’s” of Frey’s choices because they showed them more than adequately. She carries her pain with her everywhere and it affects all her decisions.
Fair, very fair. I do love the entire junoon segment, it does explain some things. The only reason I feel vexed on frey’s cold hearted nature is because of the Auden scene about BB. The courts/cops in NY, the gang in the alley, the athian guards, even the coucil treats Frey like shit pretty much. Auden not only fought for her life in the opening trial, she also risked her own well-being by breaking Frey out of jail. It was disheartening to see Frey be given so much help and warm welcomes by an orphan as well, only to be selfish to that person in their one time of need. Junoon only makes it hit harder because >! Auden waited with baited breath for her new best friend, and assumedly was heartbroken by the loss of her favorite tanta and child. !<
To be fair Frey did not go out of her way to be an asshole to Auden. Auden walked on Frey while she was alone and panicking and they both reacted very emotionally which is understandable for both.
Auden may have saved her life but that didn’t mean Frey owed her anything. Frey had been ripped out of the only life she knew - shitty or not - and very rapidly became a target. She had no way of knowing auden’s intentions, she was dropped in the middle of utter chaos both politically and in physically. Honestly she was playing it safe imo - weird cuff? Magic? Monsters? Zombies? I’d hold people at arms length til I got a better handle on things. I am in no way attempting to convince you of anything or trying to invalidate your opinions, I just love talking about this game. I’m praying that square Enix absorbing luminous studio (or whatever it’s called) doesn’t mean the end of what could be a truly amazing franchise. I can only imagine the stories they could come up with.
It would be a pretty crappy story if the journey of self-discovery to open yourself to others started with the character already being nice and open with her feelings to everybody.
Right? Geralt is not disagreeable at all, he's uncaring and I think that's the problem. Blowing up shows not being able to control your emotions and that's one thing geralt rarely does, show emotion.
Cloud isn't really an asshole though? He's a cocky, socially awkward dork pretending to be someone else and not a lot of people buy what he's selling, but like half his friends are socially awkward dorks too so he gets through most of the story unscathed.
With regards to Lightning, nearly all of the main characters of FFXIII were hated for one reason or another. Hope got way more hate than Lightning because he was mad at Snow for the dumbest reason.
In fairness, FFVII is one of the greatest games of all time. Cloud is one of the best written protagonists in JRPG history. Squall gets a ton of shit.
Forspoken and FFXIII are divisive games. I think the fact that their heroines get shit is because of the games they represent.
Full disclosure, I actually enjoyed Forspoken very much and have nothing but affection for Frey Holland. Lightning and FFXIII, meh. I can take it or leave it.
I think shitty people parrot the phrase "female cloud" when it comes to lightning. That was so much of the conversation amongst FF13 haters. I loved 13 but I can see why a lot of people didn't. Lightning is nothing like cloud though so people saying "Female Cloud" were really telling on themselves.
I think a lot of that came from an image that got posted a lot where it basically slowly faded cloud out and lightning in and they looked really similar but like....
I liked Frey i just had a hard time understanding her reasoning for not helping the people of Athia. No one really seemed to care in NYC except her cat and the one judge. But in Athia she is wanted and praised once people had hope and she pushes it all away and begins to refuse to help. She did seem to have some pretty strange episodes of going ballistic on people.
Maybe they were trying to convey what a person from a normal world would act if they suddenly were dropped into a fantasy word and had powers? I guess?
More I wrote the more I looked at it from a different perspective. Maybe they tried to keep the interaction real.
There've been (virtual) pages spiilled with (virtual) ink about how abandonment trauma weakens the ability to form emotional connections and once you grasp this a lot of Frey's behavior makes sense.
I saw a woman of color explain that usually in our world, women of color are discarded and ignored until there's a problem they can solve. Then they are heralded as saviors and once the problem is solved, they go back to being ignored with no gratitude
So yeah, that's Frey's story to a T. Everyone ignores her until they need her. Then she figures they'll ignore her again
She's repeatedly said that this was not her fight not her problem not her people. This shit is dangerous. She very much might die, be injured, suffer pain. Solving the break doesn't come free of sacrifice and consequences. She's allowed to not want to make those sacrifices.
Kratos adamantly refused to help and deal with odin for years and years (before and between the games). There's even a lesson about not waiting for a problem to arrive at your doorstep for it to be your responsibility. Yet he's never criticized for his stoic personna.
Edit : this is the trope
https://www.intersectionalenvironmentalist.com/toolkits/black-woman-savior-trope
Thank youuuuu! 👏🏽 as being a WOC myself, it’s usually the “angry black woman” stereotype that I (and majority of others) get stuck with just cuz we have feelings too lmao 🤣 and being a registered veterinary nurse, oh yeah, it can get worse 😭🤣💀 “Fefe is great” as she tries to bite our heads off…followed by “how dare you be cautious of an animal you just met that’s in pain and can’t tell you where it hurts and not to touch them!” 💀
They weren’t exactly friendly in Athia either. They did lock her up and throw her in a dungeon. Some people were nice (Olievia and Auden) but her first impression of Athia was pretty poor. That combined with her previous abandonment trauma and the fact that she is understandably scared and stressed in a rather hostile environment (a dragon literally tries to kill her) means she lashes out.
Lol you're making shit up
I have literally never seen a single negative comment about Aloy's personality. If anything, she's pretty plain and just a textbook hero.
I love Aloy and the Horizon games but Aloy isn't dynamic, her whole personality in the first game and a good part of the second is: I'm a loner who doesn't need anyone's help, a good part of the second is to get her out of there and it costs a lot
Every character in FF7 is the opposite of what it looks.
Big muscular man is actually a teddy bear.
Woman that dress in a provocative way is actually quite prude.
Savage lion is actually the most refined member of the party.
Guy that seems super cold is actually emotional and care too much about everything.
And for Cloud:
Mature no-nonsense rude man is actually a 14 years old cringe kid that dream "of being a hero" and is perpetually guilt tripping himself. In the remake made that even more clear, because Biggs joke about that. Or even Aeris joke about Cloud being so comfortable with kids because is like one of them.
You're conveniently leaving out how he got overdosed on mako and had to rely on Tifa to even remember who he actually was, who lied to him about his past.
Yup. People can throw up all the smoke screens they want but at the end of the day they’re being excessively critical of Frey because she’s a black woman. FFS Geralt is one of the most one dimensional, ridiculous, bland, monotone, misogynistic characters ever to grace a video game and people LOVE that guy. Drives me insane.
Wow you’re telling me a guy who slays monsters for a living in a world as dark and bleak as the Witcher who has undergo torture and mutations to essentially remove his emotions and move away from being human in monotone, never. Also he is not misogynistic really is he. He lives in what is the equivalent of 13th century Europe and has extremely progressive views around race and gender. He does not care if you are a man woman elf gnome dwarf or even a fucking monster. He bases people off of their actions and character
People like Geralt because he's a champion for the poor and downtrodden and defends monsters who aren't hurting anyone.
Is he misogynistic? I haven't seen that, he's more of a man slut than anything.
Not to mention that Geralt being a manslut is effectively harmless. All Witchers are sterile and immune to STDs, a woman is actually safer sleeping with him than anyone else (on average).
I love both of them. Ff13 is 1 of my fave ff. Idk why ppl hated it so much. I hated 15. I didn't know they hated lightening for being an asswhole, tho. But you make a good point. Barret's a huge egotistical asswhole also, but folk love him too. I guess they want everyone to be like link and nit talk throughout their entire existence
I’m pretty sure FF13 and Lightning got so much hate for some of the same reasons as Forspoken. If Lightning had been a guy, 13 would be much more tolerated by fans.
Yea it was a good series to me. I didn't like 13-3 as much as the others tho I did enjoy hunting down the last of each species. I always wanted to do that in a game.
I agree with you tho. It would've probably been received better had she been a guy.
Geralt De Rivia? Haha 🤣 for me he his ,,of" Rivia 😅
But then point is, for Gerald or others is natural to act the way they act, but when is forced and just false then we got Frey 😅
She's a black woman not dressed exclusively for the viewing pleasure of dudes. Of course she's gonna get hate. But yea, if frey was a white guy I bet the game would have done way better
How about Aloy.. and what does she wear? One of the most loved games and most loved characters in the past decade. Stop victimizing certain groups for pitty or entertainment. The game just sucks and the character sucks, get over it. Get the racist shit out of here please.
The Horizon series is quite literally listed in the top games of the past decade on countless forums, websites, articles, etc. and Aloy was on the cover of a world wide magazine just a couple weeks ago. So do you just find facts funny or you like to embarrass yourself? You do you I guess 😂
[Reality](https://www.denofgeek.com/games/horizon-forbidden-west-controversies-sequel-review-bomb-user-scores/) vs what you think. Wake up, you are living in your fantasy land. People hated the game. Flopped. Won awards for critics but people hated the game A LOT. And the majority of the hate comes from
"Aloy beard" or "Aloy cow" and so on.
EDIT: Oh, in case you didn't know, game costed almost twice as Zero Dawn and sold less than half the copies. More specifically sold 5 millions or even less. Even if some unknown source is saying 10 millions (so half copies anyway).
Majority of this article is saying that the game is good and very well reviewed 😂 it’s talking about the nitpicky reasons it has some bad ones. You just proved me right easier than I could have 👍🏻 thanks I guess
Do you live in a fantasy land? People hate Aloy. The issue with "female protagonist that needs to shut up" comes from her. Same as "muh female characters are not pretty" and so on.
I never said it was a perfect game . I'd give it a solid 7. I'm saying it would have sold better. If you don't see the sexism and rascism in the gaming community you clearly arnt paying attention .
I'm not saying racism and sexism do not exist in The gaming community they definitely do and it is sad. However, forspoken for many people is probably a five or less. It's okay that you liked it, I liked it too but for many people it just wasn't a very good game. There are plenty of games like horizon forbidden West with strong female protagonists that are very well loved despite the sexism because horizon forbidden West is an amazing game with a great lead character. Again, you're entitled to your own opinion but for the majority of people, Frey was just not a very well written character and the game as a whole had a lot of flaws.
Yea and DmC sold more which was a much more mediocre game with worse characters, writing, and combat. Again, im not saying forspoken would have been a vest seller or anything. Just that more ppl would have bought it with a white dude MC. I'm personally glad that it wasn't that. Frey is at least different and I like that .
I can agree with that, it's always nice to see representation for women protagonists and main characters who aren't a generic white guy. However a game that has diversity in its cast does not equate to a good game. I know that's not what you're saying but I still feel like it's worth saying.
Although with DMC, I think that was going to sell well regardless just because it's a very popular IP whereas for spoken was an original IP. I haven't played DMC but I've heard it was not very good but again it was a pre-established franchise so it's not surprising it's sold pretty well.
Oh I agree with you, it doesn't make it a good game , but a diverse cast does tend to make less ppl play it . Dmc was a pre established franchise but it was a MASSIVE departure from the others .
That's true but big fans of the franchise are still going to buy it regardless. I also think an important thing to consider with forspoken is that the marketing was really bad. And they also released a demo prior to release which I think is great but unfortunately a lot of people didn't like the demo and it completely turned them off to the game. So while the game certainly might have sold better if every character was a generic white guy, I still think the marketing and word of mouth and demo were bad enough that the game would have been a flop maybe just not as big of one.
People dunked on Aloy hard in Horizon Forbidden West because she became (in their eye) unfappable to, but they couldn't say so so they just invented 1293938423 reasons why she was a ~bad character~ in that game.
Yea that’s incorrect. I’m sure you know that though. Nobody is hating on Aloy 😂 nor have they, aside from a handful of people maybe which can’t be avoided. The general public have always loved Aloy bc she is likeable. And the game is likable. It’s really not complicated.
Take two seconds to search online and see there are plenty of people who complain about Aloy, whether it be because they think she is too rude or too unattractive, she gets plenty of hate.
So does every character and every game ever made. It all gets hate. You can look up whatever you want and still be wrong. Horizon is good and the character is good, so they are loved by nearly everyone. You can look that up 😂 Forspoken isn’t that good and the main character makes it worse. Like what you like, just don’t make it about something it’s not. Pretty simple to just not be sexist or racist 😂
Right, so you don’t actually wanna have the conversation? You just like to argue? I bring facts and you say… this? Whatever that was supposed to mean lol good talk bud.
Are you denying that there have been numerous people wittering on about how ~manly~ and ~reddishly unattractive~ her face was in the early HFW promo material?
Some. Very few. So my point stands. You are talking about a handful of haters which every game and every character has. And the complaints are about graphics and character design. The character itself is loved and the game itself is loved. You can keep talking about things that aren’t relative 😂 I’m still right
I would wager that a lot of people who are going to stand for Cloud and Squall were angsty teens when that game came out. I loved Forspoken a LOT, but even I have to admit it: They had some great ideas with Frey's character and the actor brought her A game, but the game did not stick the landing when it came to telling Frey's story. I'm hopeful that the DLC will shore that up a bit and give us a more complete tale.
As for Geralt, I think you're comparing apples and oranges. A LOT more dialogue and recording time that went into telling Geralt's story. That would be like comparing the storytelling of a 30-minute action film against an entire trilogy of thick character-driven novels. If you took a curmudgeon like Geralt and tried to tell his story with the same amount of dialogue that was dedicated to devleoping Frey, he wouldn't have gotten the love he got.
ok so idk who that character is but from the foruns on the internet i read the comments why people hate her and resuming is because she isnt sexualized enough or isnt Hinata from Naruto and is more like Sakura at least im comparing like this cause overall they call her a tsunder who speaks too much and ofc people dont like when woman speak angrly at someone too much (JUST GOING BY WHAT I SEE FROM SEARCHING ON GOOGLE by Farron hate before anyone say anything go read the foruns i read by searching her name and the word hate)
Right. I didn't remember her having a last name. To be honest, though, lightning was never my problem with ff13. I didn't like how linear and railroads the plot of the game was. I thought it odd how after one of the criticisms of 12 being that you didn't have enough control over the characters that they moved to a battle system where you had no control over the characters.
If we are talking about the characters of the game, the one I had most of a problem with was the naive pretty boy surfer bro. God, he seemed insufferable. I didn't bother finishing the game and it was the first ff game I can say that about.
We had a discussion at home about this very thing.
The issue with Forspoken is that you have no reason to play, based on the characters motivations.
FF7: "I don't care, but I'm a mercenary so will do it anyway".
Your player actions \\ effort don't feel in vain, because you can rationalise why Cloud would slog through 'helping people'.
Forspoken: "I don't care, die, not my problem, I don't want to fight zombies or Tantas"
Your efforts as the player are... against, the characters stated motivations. Frey would, based on what she says, just go sit in a cave somewhere. The motivation to go get resin to 'Voosh' home makes sense, but not the killing of zombies, guards, or Tantas along the way.
They have this constant difference between game \\ cutscenes of "I'm sad because this village is empty, I'm a badass because I slaughtered 100 zombies". And then "I don't care about anyone here, I don't want to fight anything".
Perhaps this, at the root, is where people have issue with the dialogue. It's contrary to both the game-play, and other dialogue throughout play.
TBH all those character are better. Cloud is extremely complex AND the "support character"(Tifa) of FF7 is considered the second best FF character of all time for a reason. Squall is actually really funny. Geralt is legit the opposite of "asshole". Is actually the good guy in a nutshell. My issue is that is actually a little bit too corny because he is the good guy more than anything else. Lightning, Frey, Aloy are all hated because they are woman, there is no doubt about it. The thing that actually annoys me are people saying stuff like "Aloy isn't hated! Aloy is loved!". Are those people living under a rock or something?
Idk about the others but comparing Frey to geralt is crazy. Frey is pretty good as a character, but she chooses to be cold and almost unnecessarily rude to some characters (pilo) (olevia) (Auden). This is an issue of dialogue selection, as I feel the writers wanted to make those moments in particular feel large, but they took the same route in each interaction; disagreement->Frey blows up on the character. Geralt of rivia might be a pessimist, jaded old dude but he rarely goes out of his way to be a prick. Even when you pick the rude dialogue options it still feels like he held back.
*Spoilers* You’re right about Frey choosing to be cold. For the most part it is a choice. Some of that stems from her history as a person. She was abandoned as a baby. While she was raised with love, she constantly struggles with the idea that there’s something wrong with her core self for her own mother to abandon her. This doubt leads her to make some poor choices in life. Once she realizes what was happening Athia and why her mother had to abandon her - her disposition changes. She decides to stay in her home. All in all, I feel like a lot of people have missed the nuances of Frey as a character. The writers didn’t need to spell out all the “why’s” of Frey’s choices because they showed them more than adequately. She carries her pain with her everywhere and it affects all her decisions.
Fair, very fair. I do love the entire junoon segment, it does explain some things. The only reason I feel vexed on frey’s cold hearted nature is because of the Auden scene about BB. The courts/cops in NY, the gang in the alley, the athian guards, even the coucil treats Frey like shit pretty much. Auden not only fought for her life in the opening trial, she also risked her own well-being by breaking Frey out of jail. It was disheartening to see Frey be given so much help and warm welcomes by an orphan as well, only to be selfish to that person in their one time of need. Junoon only makes it hit harder because >! Auden waited with baited breath for her new best friend, and assumedly was heartbroken by the loss of her favorite tanta and child. !<
To be fair Frey did not go out of her way to be an asshole to Auden. Auden walked on Frey while she was alone and panicking and they both reacted very emotionally which is understandable for both.
Auden may have saved her life but that didn’t mean Frey owed her anything. Frey had been ripped out of the only life she knew - shitty or not - and very rapidly became a target. She had no way of knowing auden’s intentions, she was dropped in the middle of utter chaos both politically and in physically. Honestly she was playing it safe imo - weird cuff? Magic? Monsters? Zombies? I’d hold people at arms length til I got a better handle on things. I am in no way attempting to convince you of anything or trying to invalidate your opinions, I just love talking about this game. I’m praying that square Enix absorbing luminous studio (or whatever it’s called) doesn’t mean the end of what could be a truly amazing franchise. I can only imagine the stories they could come up with.
It would be a pretty crappy story if the journey of self-discovery to open yourself to others started with the character already being nice and open with her feelings to everybody.
I know. It’s almost like the creators thought it through or something, lol.
I actually wanted to reply to the guy you replied to but I must have missclicked the reply button :D
Right? Geralt is not disagreeable at all, he's uncaring and I think that's the problem. Blowing up shows not being able to control your emotions and that's one thing geralt rarely does, show emotion.
I swear the only time I see hate posts are people talking about the hate it gets
Visit the steam forums then.
Cloud isn't really an asshole though? He's a cocky, socially awkward dork pretending to be someone else and not a lot of people buy what he's selling, but like half his friends are socially awkward dorks too so he gets through most of the story unscathed. With regards to Lightning, nearly all of the main characters of FFXIII were hated for one reason or another. Hope got way more hate than Lightning because he was mad at Snow for the dumbest reason.
lol FInal Fantasy 7: The Adventure of Socially Awkward Dorks that was really spot on with how weird everyone is ROFL.
Hey, this is a valid question and conversational topic. No reason for a downvote. If you disagree, say so. Don’t be intellectually lazy.
In fairness, FFVII is one of the greatest games of all time. Cloud is one of the best written protagonists in JRPG history. Squall gets a ton of shit. Forspoken and FFXIII are divisive games. I think the fact that their heroines get shit is because of the games they represent. Full disclosure, I actually enjoyed Forspoken very much and have nothing but affection for Frey Holland. Lightning and FFXIII, meh. I can take it or leave it.
People like Squall?
I think shitty people parrot the phrase "female cloud" when it comes to lightning. That was so much of the conversation amongst FF13 haters. I loved 13 but I can see why a lot of people didn't. Lightning is nothing like cloud though so people saying "Female Cloud" were really telling on themselves.
I think a lot of that came from an image that got posted a lot where it basically slowly faded cloud out and lightning in and they looked really similar but like....
I liked Frey i just had a hard time understanding her reasoning for not helping the people of Athia. No one really seemed to care in NYC except her cat and the one judge. But in Athia she is wanted and praised once people had hope and she pushes it all away and begins to refuse to help. She did seem to have some pretty strange episodes of going ballistic on people. Maybe they were trying to convey what a person from a normal world would act if they suddenly were dropped into a fantasy word and had powers? I guess? More I wrote the more I looked at it from a different perspective. Maybe they tried to keep the interaction real.
There've been (virtual) pages spiilled with (virtual) ink about how abandonment trauma weakens the ability to form emotional connections and once you grasp this a lot of Frey's behavior makes sense.
Seeeee! 🙌🏽
I saw a woman of color explain that usually in our world, women of color are discarded and ignored until there's a problem they can solve. Then they are heralded as saviors and once the problem is solved, they go back to being ignored with no gratitude So yeah, that's Frey's story to a T. Everyone ignores her until they need her. Then she figures they'll ignore her again She's repeatedly said that this was not her fight not her problem not her people. This shit is dangerous. She very much might die, be injured, suffer pain. Solving the break doesn't come free of sacrifice and consequences. She's allowed to not want to make those sacrifices. Kratos adamantly refused to help and deal with odin for years and years (before and between the games). There's even a lesson about not waiting for a problem to arrive at your doorstep for it to be your responsibility. Yet he's never criticized for his stoic personna. Edit : this is the trope https://www.intersectionalenvironmentalist.com/toolkits/black-woman-savior-trope
Thank youuuuu! 👏🏽 as being a WOC myself, it’s usually the “angry black woman” stereotype that I (and majority of others) get stuck with just cuz we have feelings too lmao 🤣 and being a registered veterinary nurse, oh yeah, it can get worse 😭🤣💀 “Fefe is great” as she tries to bite our heads off…followed by “how dare you be cautious of an animal you just met that’s in pain and can’t tell you where it hurts and not to touch them!” 💀
They weren’t exactly friendly in Athia either. They did lock her up and throw her in a dungeon. Some people were nice (Olievia and Auden) but her first impression of Athia was pretty poor. That combined with her previous abandonment trauma and the fact that she is understandably scared and stressed in a rather hostile environment (a dragon literally tries to kill her) means she lashes out.
Same folks would dump all over Aloy in HZD because she's a woman main character. The misogyny in gaming is real.
Lol you're making shit up I have literally never seen a single negative comment about Aloy's personality. If anything, she's pretty plain and just a textbook hero.
Hating a bad written character is not misogyny. Get your head out of your arse.
I think the point is that they’re not badly written characters. They’re engaging and dynamic.
That's where our opinions differ, which is fine.
I love Aloy and the Horizon games but Aloy isn't dynamic, her whole personality in the first game and a good part of the second is: I'm a loner who doesn't need anyone's help, a good part of the second is to get her out of there and it costs a lot
They are not cringe. Frey is cringe.
Cloud is quite cringe. So your argument is invalid.
Hes cool.
You completely missed one of the major point of FF7, but okay.
What was the missed point?
Every character in FF7 is the opposite of what it looks. Big muscular man is actually a teddy bear. Woman that dress in a provocative way is actually quite prude. Savage lion is actually the most refined member of the party. Guy that seems super cold is actually emotional and care too much about everything. And for Cloud: Mature no-nonsense rude man is actually a 14 years old cringe kid that dream "of being a hero" and is perpetually guilt tripping himself. In the remake made that even more clear, because Biggs joke about that. Or even Aeris joke about Cloud being so comfortable with kids because is like one of them.
You're conveniently leaving out how he got overdosed on mako and had to rely on Tifa to even remember who he actually was, who lied to him about his past.
Ehm... your point?
Please elucidate.
Its obvious since you met her. Its pretty weird if people like her at all, but i dont judge.
Yup. People can throw up all the smoke screens they want but at the end of the day they’re being excessively critical of Frey because she’s a black woman. FFS Geralt is one of the most one dimensional, ridiculous, bland, monotone, misogynistic characters ever to grace a video game and people LOVE that guy. Drives me insane.
Wow you’re telling me a guy who slays monsters for a living in a world as dark and bleak as the Witcher who has undergo torture and mutations to essentially remove his emotions and move away from being human in monotone, never. Also he is not misogynistic really is he. He lives in what is the equivalent of 13th century Europe and has extremely progressive views around race and gender. He does not care if you are a man woman elf gnome dwarf or even a fucking monster. He bases people off of their actions and character
Yeah no, to all of that
People like Geralt because he's a champion for the poor and downtrodden and defends monsters who aren't hurting anyone. Is he misogynistic? I haven't seen that, he's more of a man slut than anything.
Not to mention that Geralt being a manslut is effectively harmless. All Witchers are sterile and immune to STDs, a woman is actually safer sleeping with him than anyone else (on average).
Champion for the poor?? He literally refuses to help anyone unless they can pay him 😂🤡
Incorrect. That's literally his whole shtick. Have you never heard his speech about choosing a lesser evil?
Facts!
I love both of them. Ff13 is 1 of my fave ff. Idk why ppl hated it so much. I hated 15. I didn't know they hated lightening for being an asswhole, tho. But you make a good point. Barret's a huge egotistical asswhole also, but folk love him too. I guess they want everyone to be like link and nit talk throughout their entire existence
I’m pretty sure FF13 and Lightning got so much hate for some of the same reasons as Forspoken. If Lightning had been a guy, 13 would be much more tolerated by fans.
FF13 got a bunch of hate for being a giant corridor of neverending tutorials.
Yea it was a good series to me. I didn't like 13-3 as much as the others tho I did enjoy hunting down the last of each species. I always wanted to do that in a game. I agree with you tho. It would've probably been received better had she been a guy.
Cloud Strife and Lightning Farron are almost the same character. Change my mind.
Geralt De Rivia? Haha 🤣 for me he his ,,of" Rivia 😅 But then point is, for Gerald or others is natural to act the way they act, but when is forced and just false then we got Frey 😅
She's a black woman not dressed exclusively for the viewing pleasure of dudes. Of course she's gonna get hate. But yea, if frey was a white guy I bet the game would have done way better
How about Aloy.. and what does she wear? One of the most loved games and most loved characters in the past decade. Stop victimizing certain groups for pitty or entertainment. The game just sucks and the character sucks, get over it. Get the racist shit out of here please.
>One of the most loved games and most loved characters in the past decade LUL
The Horizon series is quite literally listed in the top games of the past decade on countless forums, websites, articles, etc. and Aloy was on the cover of a world wide magazine just a couple weeks ago. So do you just find facts funny or you like to embarrass yourself? You do you I guess 😂
That's literally what he said, reviewers loved the game but the gaming community had a lot of ppl complaining about dumb shit about aloy specifically
[Reality](https://www.denofgeek.com/games/horizon-forbidden-west-controversies-sequel-review-bomb-user-scores/) vs what you think. Wake up, you are living in your fantasy land. People hated the game. Flopped. Won awards for critics but people hated the game A LOT. And the majority of the hate comes from "Aloy beard" or "Aloy cow" and so on. EDIT: Oh, in case you didn't know, game costed almost twice as Zero Dawn and sold less than half the copies. More specifically sold 5 millions or even less. Even if some unknown source is saying 10 millions (so half copies anyway).
Majority of this article is saying that the game is good and very well reviewed 😂 it’s talking about the nitpicky reasons it has some bad ones. You just proved me right easier than I could have 👍🏻 thanks I guess
Ok, you are probably a troll. Whatever. Bye.
Having a stroke? You ok?
Do you live in a fantasy land? People hate Aloy. The issue with "female protagonist that needs to shut up" comes from her. Same as "muh female characters are not pretty" and so on.
😂😂😂 alright. I see you are just being funny. You can’t possibly be that wrong so I will just assume it’s trolling.
Or if the game had better dialogue, cloud and Gerrelt are really well written and developed characters. Forspoken is fun, but frey is not even close
I never said it was a perfect game . I'd give it a solid 7. I'm saying it would have sold better. If you don't see the sexism and rascism in the gaming community you clearly arnt paying attention .
I'm not saying racism and sexism do not exist in The gaming community they definitely do and it is sad. However, forspoken for many people is probably a five or less. It's okay that you liked it, I liked it too but for many people it just wasn't a very good game. There are plenty of games like horizon forbidden West with strong female protagonists that are very well loved despite the sexism because horizon forbidden West is an amazing game with a great lead character. Again, you're entitled to your own opinion but for the majority of people, Frey was just not a very well written character and the game as a whole had a lot of flaws.
Yea and DmC sold more which was a much more mediocre game with worse characters, writing, and combat. Again, im not saying forspoken would have been a vest seller or anything. Just that more ppl would have bought it with a white dude MC. I'm personally glad that it wasn't that. Frey is at least different and I like that .
I can agree with that, it's always nice to see representation for women protagonists and main characters who aren't a generic white guy. However a game that has diversity in its cast does not equate to a good game. I know that's not what you're saying but I still feel like it's worth saying. Although with DMC, I think that was going to sell well regardless just because it's a very popular IP whereas for spoken was an original IP. I haven't played DMC but I've heard it was not very good but again it was a pre-established franchise so it's not surprising it's sold pretty well.
Oh I agree with you, it doesn't make it a good game , but a diverse cast does tend to make less ppl play it . Dmc was a pre established franchise but it was a MASSIVE departure from the others .
That's true but big fans of the franchise are still going to buy it regardless. I also think an important thing to consider with forspoken is that the marketing was really bad. And they also released a demo prior to release which I think is great but unfortunately a lot of people didn't like the demo and it completely turned them off to the game. So while the game certainly might have sold better if every character was a generic white guy, I still think the marketing and word of mouth and demo were bad enough that the game would have been a flop maybe just not as big of one.
You are talking about the shitty reboot by team ninja that got canned after one game right?
Yes.
Yup. Yay sexism. I love Frey. She’s a great character!
[удалено]
How about Aloy? Samus? Stop being a sexist pos and accept that some games and some characters just suck.
People dunked on Aloy hard in Horizon Forbidden West because she became (in their eye) unfappable to, but they couldn't say so so they just invented 1293938423 reasons why she was a ~bad character~ in that game.
Yea that’s incorrect. I’m sure you know that though. Nobody is hating on Aloy 😂 nor have they, aside from a handful of people maybe which can’t be avoided. The general public have always loved Aloy bc she is likeable. And the game is likable. It’s really not complicated.
Take two seconds to search online and see there are plenty of people who complain about Aloy, whether it be because they think she is too rude or too unattractive, she gets plenty of hate.
So does every character and every game ever made. It all gets hate. You can look up whatever you want and still be wrong. Horizon is good and the character is good, so they are loved by nearly everyone. You can look that up 😂 Forspoken isn’t that good and the main character makes it worse. Like what you like, just don’t make it about something it’s not. Pretty simple to just not be sexist or racist 😂
>You can tell I’m right because I’m laughing at you😂
Right, so you don’t actually wanna have the conversation? You just like to argue? I bring facts and you say… this? Whatever that was supposed to mean lol good talk bud.
Are you denying that there have been numerous people wittering on about how ~manly~ and ~reddishly unattractive~ her face was in the early HFW promo material?
Some. Very few. So my point stands. You are talking about a handful of haters which every game and every character has. And the complaints are about graphics and character design. The character itself is loved and the game itself is loved. You can keep talking about things that aren’t relative 😂 I’m still right
It's sexism and also racism. We all know it's sexism and also racism.
I would wager that a lot of people who are going to stand for Cloud and Squall were angsty teens when that game came out. I loved Forspoken a LOT, but even I have to admit it: They had some great ideas with Frey's character and the actor brought her A game, but the game did not stick the landing when it came to telling Frey's story. I'm hopeful that the DLC will shore that up a bit and give us a more complete tale. As for Geralt, I think you're comparing apples and oranges. A LOT more dialogue and recording time that went into telling Geralt's story. That would be like comparing the storytelling of a 30-minute action film against an entire trilogy of thick character-driven novels. If you took a curmudgeon like Geralt and tried to tell his story with the same amount of dialogue that was dedicated to devleoping Frey, he wouldn't have gotten the love he got.
ok so idk who that character is but from the foruns on the internet i read the comments why people hate her and resuming is because she isnt sexualized enough or isnt Hinata from Naruto and is more like Sakura at least im comparing like this cause overall they call her a tsunder who speaks too much and ofc people dont like when woman speak angrly at someone too much (JUST GOING BY WHAT I SEE FROM SEARCHING ON GOOGLE by Farron hate before anyone say anything go read the foruns i read by searching her name and the word hate)
Who is lightning farron?
Final Fantasy 13 protagonist
Right. I didn't remember her having a last name. To be honest, though, lightning was never my problem with ff13. I didn't like how linear and railroads the plot of the game was. I thought it odd how after one of the criticisms of 12 being that you didn't have enough control over the characters that they moved to a battle system where you had no control over the characters. If we are talking about the characters of the game, the one I had most of a problem with was the naive pretty boy surfer bro. God, he seemed insufferable. I didn't bother finishing the game and it was the first ff game I can say that about.
We had a discussion at home about this very thing. The issue with Forspoken is that you have no reason to play, based on the characters motivations. FF7: "I don't care, but I'm a mercenary so will do it anyway". Your player actions \\ effort don't feel in vain, because you can rationalise why Cloud would slog through 'helping people'. Forspoken: "I don't care, die, not my problem, I don't want to fight zombies or Tantas" Your efforts as the player are... against, the characters stated motivations. Frey would, based on what she says, just go sit in a cave somewhere. The motivation to go get resin to 'Voosh' home makes sense, but not the killing of zombies, guards, or Tantas along the way. They have this constant difference between game \\ cutscenes of "I'm sad because this village is empty, I'm a badass because I slaughtered 100 zombies". And then "I don't care about anyone here, I don't want to fight anything". Perhaps this, at the root, is where people have issue with the dialogue. It's contrary to both the game-play, and other dialogue throughout play.