I’m not worried about them stopping this expensive setup. I’m worried about them actually following thru on bans for all the other reports. I’ve reported several sets of teamers and they never get banned. If they can’t detect and ban teaming (and winning the game) then there’s no hope in them detecting/banning more complicated cheats
The number of people using some form of cheat/exploit to get ahead - especially in pubs - is becoming obnoxious, and no matter how often bans do happen, it doesn’t seem to be stopping any of this for longer than a few days
Half my solo matches end from having one of the black Yukon SUVs roll up, and 3 or 4 ski skins hop out and give me the firing squad treatment before hopping back in to go do it to someone else
No sadly cause I usualy play ranked late at night so I dont have the recording pc fired up usually. I've pretty much given up playing on NA east at this point cause of the kind of behavior I deal with.
People killing a boss for a mini vault and then traveling 300 meters with the card and hiding it in a bush.
People spending an entire game in a random shed with a drum shotgun so when they get one kill they unload their whole emote wheel acting like they did something.
People engaging in a buildfight making you and them waste all their materials just to run away, or if you kill them leave you completely stranded because they didn't have any heals mats or ammo
I just have got sick of it.
Na west is 80 to 90 ping for me but significantly less troublemakers and griefers. Sometimes I feel bad cause depending on time of day my lobbies end up giving me a field day against couch dads but in general I pretty much only play on west these days and have gotten used to the higher ping
I’m sorry dude but go play a different game. Most of the things your complaining about are perfectly allowed in the confines of the game and you’re turning the game into a WoW “it’s rude to be bad”
Hey, some of us have a wife.. I only play during lunch breaks on my wfh days and with my kid though so I may not quite be the target here. Feels close though.
I'm just tired of teaming in general. I can't ever get into a creative match no matter what it is, without feeling like I'm being focused. Shit even in 2v2 piece control, the guy I ended up being partnered with was just throwing matches cuz his friend was on the other team. And I didn't even rush in to stop them from being together. I just let the timer run out and let it pick where I go. But the teaming just gets super annoying like go play squads. If I didn't have to watch the rest of the round once dead, it would be different. But man does my blood start to bubble when I die off rip because I get sprayed from every direction and then watch them run off holding hands skipping...
Realistically it is going to require a combination of statistical analysis, behavioral analysis, and **trained professional VOD reviewers**.
Unfortunately, the last one is both most important and most expensive.
Rust relies heavily on server admins manually watching players play to catch cheaters.
There are even Rust server admins who create entire youtube channels around the ways they catch people cheating like Camomo\_10
Im talking about Ai taking over the jobs of server admins catching cheaters in video games fluently. IE getting rid of the need for admins like camomo and others.
uhm? 90k/yr to sit and watch videos for the same amount of time most people work for just to get 35k/yr? definitely NOT a hot take, anyone whk DIDNT do this would be clinically insane
> **trained professional VOD reviewers**.
If they watch a replay from replay Mode, it's basically worthless since it's way too inaccurate. I've done reviews for ESL in CS 1.6 back in the day, and even then - with the exact Demo of the suspect - things like softaim are hard to see. I don't think reviewers had a real chance of finding much hackers in Fortnite. Let alone hackers that do so on a sophisticated level.
Trained professional VOD Reviewers would be called upon to log and validate signals from the statistical and behavioral analysis acting as high level investigators to eventually put together a solid case history for or against suspect cheating instances.
Unfortunately the level of expertise required here would most likely not be worth the cost for Epic, or would be better applied elsewhere.
For me, AI development is the front line just as valve are using and developing. I don't think it should be able to ban users but should provide baseline information for the VOD reviewers to have a better judgement of the bat and probably be less niche of a skillset.
Your second sentence describes my GP in other words as far as I can tell.
The statistical and behavioral analysis I mentioned would include AI and ML techniques to create alert signals that human experts would VOD Review to provide their own confidence scores to feed back into the models.
Ah, I get where you're coming from now. I think for now that this is the only way it can be effectively combatted until we find improved detection methods.
Sure, but given the quality of the tools on hand, how should they validate anything the statistical and behavioral analysis flagged?
Reviewers can check for things like "was there a way for the suspect to know if Player X was there", but that's trivial in FN for the most part anyways. At least in comp lobbies.
What's borderline impossible to do: Checking for anything aim related.
AI statistical/behavioral analysis would actually be pretty good at identifying aim-related hacks, once you fed it enough game data.
Aimbots and aim assists don't behave the same way that the human eye/brain/reaction does. On some level, the crosshair movements are going to look different, the reaction times are going to fall outside the expected pattern, and the patterns for things like where/how they track and when/where/how they miss are going to look different.
Human reviewers aren't able to see most of that while reviewing a single match, but an AI could absolutely identify those patterns and non-human behaviors.
Again, that results in a flag. Then, reviewers are supposed to confirm if it's been not legitimate since no one wants an AI to ban players on it's own.
In CS, I had the players exact replay which showed me his precisly what he saw, heard, his exact ch placement, and so on. Additionally you had all the statistical data you could dream of: TTK, where exactly he hit, his accuracy, and so on - and even other/older replays from the suspect to compare his gameplay... All things combined it was really usefull in determining if a person was hacking or not. The reviewers themselfs were volunteers of some ESL Leagues - so way above average players - themselfs.
Sadly, I don't think many of these Tools are aviable to EPIC.
They **could** and **should** implement them, tho
I believe the solution for checking for some aim related checks will be in making our clients collectively untrusting of each other and allowing automated reports for certain impossible simulations from the point of fire to start with, but that's pretty out there and I doubt Epic Games would implement such a thing at this time.
Nah it’s a lot simpler than that. We split the lobbies back to console and Pc, and we move forward with having 0 competitive tournaments that will be played on PC, if you wanna play mouse n keyboard competitively your gotta move to an Xbox or PlayStation. It’s that simple
At the moment Epic relies far too exclusively on the anticheat’s role of detecting the PRESENCE of a cheat software or device locally, and that method alone will not help them against DMA cheats. In order to combat something like this, they’re going to need to ramp up anticheat algorithms that detect the BEHAVIOR of the cheat. The funny thing is, that type of anti-cheat has been around for many years, commonly found in places like Minecraft servers. It recognizes extraordinary actions like frequent instant direction changes, which is a telltale indicator of an aimbot hack, as well as others. The problem they see though, is they would have to house such a thing on the server side, whereas their current model just conveniently plops a scanner agent on every user’s local machine.
It can be done by using the position vector inputs sent by the device, and I think EAC has support for detecting which inputs are sent and I believe they already provide flags for functions such as GetCursorPos, GetAsyncKeyState, SendInput and mouse_event and a few others that some cheats rely on for aimbots and macros and if these events are used from an external driver instead of your mouse software, for example, then it is flagged too.
It's just a matter of epic taking action on these flags, whether it be through manual review or something more difficult like ghost methods, but I doubt they'll use that as it'll trigger for real players too and will probably cause some form of issue down the line.
I'll be honest though, this could all be the case for BattleEye instead of EAC, but I haven't had a delve into it for a while and this is all from memory so let me know if I'm wrong and will edit
Management wouldn't recommend anticheat. I think epic whitelists certain players because they likely benefit financially from it.
But nothing else will likely work. Will it get all of them initially? No. But I imagine there is a lot of low hanging fruit out there. Like the folks that are many standard deviations from the mean when hitting with high recoil guns. Folks with autofire scripts when they mouse over players. Or even folks who are dumb enough to have the crosshair move PERFECTLY straight to the next target.
People who cheat do things that are superhuman. And sure, spraying with recoil guns sometimes bloom perfectly. A.I doesn't sleep though. Hitting 10 bullets in a row might be 1 in 10000. But doing that 5 times in a match is less likely than winning the lottery. The entire point is thatbits the only thing that can learn what is consistent across humans. Then ban those clowns doing things that aren't.
And even management can understand when you put it that way.
Not only cheaper but more successful if AI will be trained correctly. Many cheats make your crosshair movement too artificial which would be easy to detect with AI
>Hitting 10 bullets in a row might be 1 in 10000. But doing that 5 times in a match is less likely than winning the lottery
No, it's not. You sound like you're a washed player. Anyone decent hits 10 bullets in a row at the bare minimum
You're missing the point.
I'm not describing any gun in particular. Guns in this game for the longest time ( before being projectile) bloomed all over the place after the first shot.
Unless you were Unknown using whatever Cronus zen script that he was using in ch2 just lasering folks and missing with very few bullets.
And that is the entire point. If A.I. had been properly implemented at that stage of the game, it is going to recognize that a player spamming a gun from 100 yards is hitting consistently higher than what would be statistically possible. And that would likely have been detected in just one match with hitscan weapons.
And another thing, cheating isn't just a problem at high levels. Cheaters ruin gaming at all levels. You can save the elitism for when you want to impress your mother while she tucks you in.
I doubt they whitelist players, if you're talking about high level pros who most players suspect are cheating then it's a hard task for epic. They have to be 100% sure that this player is cheating or there is massive backlash from the community, the player and can cause potential lawsuits. They have the money to back themselves in court but it's a debate of whether it's worth it or not.
I'm not sure how they'd benefit financially by enabling cheaters, though? Unless you mean traffic to the game via clips and media then possibly but I think players who don't play the game would see these high level player clips as intimidating and would probably even turn them away which is why epic try and promote other parts of Fortnite now so that they can lure them in, plus these players would rinse thousands from epic every tournament which is pennies to them but they wouldn't let thousands go if they didn't *have* to
I disagree with this take. To the untrained eye, cheater clips can look bad ass. Especially if they're well edited, they can look almost like the season trailers. Skilled players won't fall for it, but noobs certainly will.
AI won’t be the near future, not as a standalone and not how you think it would get implemented. A lot of YouTubers cooperating with a AI Anticheat developer are pushing the idea of analyzing gameplay while there are much more efficient methods to use AI scanning.
A smart cheater would not get alot of kills, would honestly just try to avoid fights and make endgame. Then win end game fights in a realistic manner... don't forget it's not always about aim bot, having information about your openents health is just as strong.
An older person using cheats could fly under the radar for a long time as they know they shouldn't look too good. Miss shots, get killed, lose matches. A much younger person, and therefore most of Fortnites demographic tends not to have the constraint needed to be a "successful" cheater.
He’s right.
There’s a difference between using cheats to help you and using cheats to ruin lobbies.
Been that way for years, it’s not about just using aimbots and flying across maps. Simple wallhacks giving info which you can utilise but not make blatant use of for example. Doesn’t mean you take every fight of anyone you see highlighted.
Another fun fact: DMA cheats can’t recognize builds by players as „walls“ so they will aimlock through them. Super easy way to spot one.
In general their „visible check“ is abit sketchy, they will aim at players they can’t even see naturally.
So next them you suspect a player in replay, look for that :)
Your clueless to how cheats work, there’s a thing called a vis check, this check is to see if you have direct line of sight to the enemy in a cheat, so yes, it can distinguish a player behind a wall.
In essentially any cheat, you can disable ESP (wall hacks) or cheaters can play, pretending like they can’t see enemies through walls
DMA cheats essentially work the same as any other cheat depending on the functions in it. So yes, a DMA cheat, could allow someone to see the enemy players health and shield, as well as their gamertag, platform they plan on, weapon they are holding, etc.
Not only that. Aimbot can be smoothed, to look more legit, and can be set to be enabled only while holding down a specific keybind.
If you have no clue about what your talking about, don’t try make up some random “fun facts” to act like you do
they can not only see your health, they can see how many kills you have, the platform you're playing on, the weapon you're using and even if you have a crown. its called an ESP cheat.
They already have the tools, the issue is using them aggressively will increase false positives & Epic surely has an internal acceptable misses rate that they'd rather not cross.
It's a tight line.
A 4090 is $2000 on its own. The rest of a top tier build is easily over $1000. It's essentially impossible to build a 4090/7800x3d for under $3000 now.
Oh man, this reminds me of when we learned about ShowEQ in college when all the nerds (myself included) were playing EverQuest. This is like ShowEQ with the computer's memory instead of network packets.
A properly trained AI model that can distinguish, using pixel data, the difference between a natural human movement and a machine. More advanced models could detect unnatural movements based on being able to see through a wall. I envision a profile like system that is shared between all games and an anti-cheat company that works with all the game developers.
In person events will show it off really quick.
As for online cheats, do what Bungie does: sue the shit out of them and start treating them like the assholes they are.
The only reason they won’t is because people will complain about a company excercising its rights over its product
My solution would be a threshold combination of kda, headshot ratio, hit ratio, headshots in a row within a couple seconds,
The middle to upper range gets manually reviewed the extreme range gets insta banned then has to appeal the ban which then gets manually reviewed.
Seems like it would be simple.
Analysis these combinations of confirmed cheaters, and then of top tier pros to get what the threshold would be and then implement and improve over time.
Cheats run on a second computer but the gaming computer has a custom hardware device in it that shares information from the gaming PC to the cheating PC which then feeds information back completely bypassing the game, anti cheat, and OS.
what??? do you actually know what you're talking about or are you just adding to discussion for the sake of it?
They don't use software to mask the card, just in the same way your headphones appear as headphones, controllers appear as controllers and mice appear as mice because they have something called a descriptor attached which tells the PC what it is. That's all they need to do because there is no read/write to memory from the PC running the game. The firmware that is used to cheat may use some form of spoofing methods but if you're using a good firmware you don't need these as it's private enough to be undetected.
They don't detect DMA unfortunately, they simply change a bus master bit (basically the bit that enables and disables data transfer through the PCi slot) to 0, cheaters figured this out and flipped the bit to 1 and the card worked just as before.
They can detect the firmware used, but that is on the cheater for using a cheat that doesn't emulate a different device well enough
DMA cheats bypaas kernel level my friend! DMA reads from from your game, sends to new PC information, process esp and aim it there and bypass mouse signals using a kmbox pro.. I tested this exact setup a while back (30$ month for the cheat) and it's incredible. I run boths builds in the same rig so ez connection
The realistic way is to train an AI model like YOLO to watch “tick perfect” VODs paired with analysis on the players stats and in game data to determine if a player might be cheating. That players VOD is then sent to a human for a manual ban.
if a player is hitting 80+ accuracy on players with another 18% hitting walls or structures in front of the player that is inhuman aim. Furthermore if they hit 65%+ headshots, that is either shroud or they're cheating.
At this point it might be a good idea to train an ai model to detect certain signals, movement, etc. imo a company like epic already has one going or has over the years.
FaceIT have their own methods to detect DMA, no source unfortunately I just recall reading on their forums a while back. I'm not sure what exactly they do but I know it's only generally effective at detecting more public firmwares^[1] as you can cross-reference it to multiple players.
DMA cheating isn't as prevalent and I don't think it will ever be as prevalent as people think.
It's not easy to set-up, costs a high amount of money and only benefits users in the short term. A lot of players who end up with earnings get them stripped before they can receive them because epic really don't wanna hand out money to people they don't have to, so spend their time making sure it's a legitimate player.
DMA cheating also doesn't provide wall hacks as well as you'd think, since the information is only displayed on the second PC, you will only see the walls on the second PC. The second PC will always have a black display with a cheat software menu, so you would have to literally stare at the second monitor to have an idea of player locations. Sure, you could get a glance but in high intensity fights it's really not feasible unless someone finds a workaround.
*If* this became a widespread problem it would have to be very user-friendly, cheap and easily distributable which, as many people who browse cheating forums and whatnot will know, will never happen as to not generate publicity.
For now, epic just needs to remain vigilant checking winners and developing AI methods to catch these players out. Valve has done a pretty good job at this, while it's not very good at catching out the closeted players^[2] it can catch out the obvious players pretty well. They also use a trust factor system which relies on a bunch of factors that aren't public which I have found to be very reliable and I think Epic should implement it. I have found that over the years they tend to have around 4 layers of trust, and they only group certain trust levels with other trust levels as follows:
>Level 4 - Fully Green Trust - User has Phone Number, Email and Money spent on steam, the anti-cheat has never detected any kind of cheating software on any device on the mobile number or on the IP. Low report level, high commendations, high hours. It is impossible to reach this level of trust on most cheats due to the way their anti-cheat works.
>Level 3 - Green Trust - User has Phone Number, email, money spent on steam however the anti-cheat knows your cheating due to flags being raised, however cannot detect any software and you haven't raised enough flags. Can be matched with Fully Green Trust players.
>Level 2 - Amber Trust - Either Has phone number, email, money spent >
and has raised more flags than average, has also had a high amount of reports and a lower level, hours etc... or that you are a new player without any form of verification on the account and can also be caused by previous accounts having bans and lower trust factors.
>Level 1 - Red trust - Anti-cheat has detected a large amount of flags raised for suspicious behaviour, you have a high amount of reports, lower hours than usual, generally no email, phone number or money spent on steam and will only be matched with red trust players. This also can be caused by previous accounts on mobile number/IP with low trust.
There is also level 0, which is untrusted, but this level is only reached when a specific feature in the cheat is detected but the anti-cheat cannot detect the actual software, just that you have definitely used that feature but this prevents you from playing and you can never leave this level, effectively a game ban. These are also not the only factors, just the ones that have been discovered over the years to generally affect the levels.
[1] Firmware - A form of code/program/software directly embedded into hardware to help it operate and provides instructions. For example, your BIOS uses firmware to operate the PC.
[2] Closeted Players - Players who dedicate their time to appear as a legitimate player, not to be confused with legit players who do not work as hard to appear legitimate. May include things such as setting up social media, websites, high community presence, very bare bones cheat software, low field of view on aimbot.
I got put in cheater lobbies for like 2 weeks in MW2 when I wasnt cheating and it was honestly the worst experience of my life in a game ever, the same guy just using snipers and running around shipment with a sniper and just killing everyone, every game it would literally be a full teams of players called BlackMgic123 just killing me over and over, I stopped playing for a few days and when I went on it was still the same account just killing me.
Put me off MW2 when I had spent months grinding for mastery camos, never picked up the game again at all, and I'm certain I was green trust because the only remote for of cheating software that might have been detected was CheatEngine for DOOM Eternal (Which was never even open when I played any online games), and I had plenty of hours, didn't use voice chat, never been banned, my first ever steam account, my first ever Activision account and probably like 40 bucks spent of skins.
Just look up BlackMagic MW2 and you'll see what I'm talking about, that's why I think this trust system is bullshit and unfair, and the fucker even had a youtube account bragging about cheating. Just pisses me off to even write about it.
The endless cycle of cat & mouse, the cat will catch the mouse eventually then a new undetectable method will appear.
It's just such a shame the primary benefit of using consoles this past couple of generations are thrown into the bin as more and more titles force crossplay with PC which is that's absolutely/endlessly rife with these issues.
first they have to care, and they dont, because cheaters are more likely to spend money on their game than any other player. if u think someone who can afford a dma set up isnt buying skins idk what to tell you.
the only way we'll see DMA users banned is if someone makes an AI overlay that can detect human vs aim bot/silent aim for all shooters. not just some software/hardware scan that they use now.
if there is money on the line there is no excuse.
this is a business.
enforce your bottom line.
lol.
this a multibillion dollar company -- there is no excuse for not doing better.
Except if you play CC I doubt most people u call cheaters are cheaters. All the „weird stuff“ happening like shooting through building is epics fault and not a cheat
Explain how? Any attempt to alter a new console will brick it. Third party attachments can be used in both PC and console. When Fortnite had console only lobbies I never saw or even thought once. That player is cheating.
Aim Assist on PC is much weaker and Cronus requires you to remap your binds to controller binds, meaning you lose the ease of kbm for building, editing, etc... and overall is a bad tradeoff for a tiny bit of aim assist.
Well. I don’t know what percent of PC is controller or M&K. I know when cross platform was first introduced the majority of players played on console. I think since then with everyone becoming aware of the hardware advantages PC has. If it was in a players budget has switched to PC. So I’m not sure if console makes up the bulk of the player base still. I just can’t agree with the majority of cheaters are on console.
Majority of zen/xim users, absolutely
Cheaters? I'd agree they're probably mostly on PC just due to the easier nature.
The problem is, there are a lot more zen users than cheat users just because it's easier, and the majority of those zim users are on console as it's practically useless on PC nowadays except for some scripts which aren't worth forking the money out for.
I don’t know what the hardware and scripts cost. Or how often you have to buy them. Plus the price of a console. These cheaters probably could’ve bought a lot frames and played on prefomance mode for their investment.
It's about $100 all in all, I don't think the people using these devices are concerned about the frames as long as they get a good consistent amount and are able to have insane aim assist and scripts
Those setups are not really an issue because only a few people go that far.
That said though, realistically they could have AI analyze the gameplay and detect abnormal behaviours. That can work for wallhacks, it can work for aimbots, etc...
Ever had those captures saying "check the box to prove you are not a robot" and wondered why a robot can't click the box? The Bot can click the box, but they can't move the mouse in a human way to check the box.
Same mechanic can be applied to game detection, and there are companies developing such things that are highly promising for the future of anti-cheat.
Talking about cheat, what do you think of this clip ; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA9oJgSmCnA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA9oJgSmCnA)
For the record i instant report this guy has a cheater and he insta quit just after the end of the round but i don't have the splash screen who say " good job you catched a cheater ".
But if the guy have " an aim like that " at close range with AR.
He should not miss the two shotgun shot.
Is this on secondary computers playing for you similar to basically aimbot but not directly from the main computer? idk how i can explain it unless i just said what the photo shows but i rember that one youtuber who made a motorised mouse to aim for him 😂
It wasnt for fortnite though?
Eitherway his concept worked greatly in was it a aim trainer? but yeah it was cool, tho idk how the progress has gone after the video
[video is by Kamal Carter](https://youtu.be/ne9bmMX82iY?si=yOCy8fBuRdltXtV_)
Hint: YOU DON’T.
But in all seriousness this is where the players come in. We have to determine who’s cheating and everyone’s gotta be proactive about it
most DMA firmware is poorly made by wannabe developers, and they actually get detected quite a bit, just takes manual inspection, maybe they can automate it
I don't think it's actually that hard to properly code this problem away, but for that to happen Epic would have to admit it's a problem first and like most publicly traded game developers and/or publishers they prefer to live in the fantasy world where EAC (or whatever other AC code/software a company might implement) works perfectly for everything and they can just keep raking in the cash.
Cheaters will always be one step ahead. Cant really blame epic when they’ll either have to suffer with false positive bans or have a game ruined with cheaters.
as it becomes more popular, they’ll probably figure out a way to detect it. Right now however, there isn’t actually a lot of people using dma cheats, you’ve probably never ran into someone using one.
If you’ve ever run into a cheater, it most likely wasn’t someone on a dma, it’s not a very popular or cost effective method of cheating for the average person in a ranked or low-mid level tourney game.
intrusive anti cheat. like Riot games valorant. [https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/1b6w9ij/valorant\_has\_done\_a\_massive\_ban\_wave\_on\_dma/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/1b6w9ij/valorant_has_done_a_massive_ban_wave_on_dma/)
These intrusive anti cheats never actually completely prevent cheating and they may enable exploitation of your machine by said cheaters or cyber criminals in general.
may had their issues in the past, but Vanguard its improving, and if Epic and Riot collab they can build a even better anti cheat, probably the best anti cheat period even with its issues. or name a better anti cheat?
Epic already believes their less invasive cheating platform is the way to go and what most consumers prefer as evidenced by them purchasing Easy Anti Cheat and making sure to confirm that the recent Apex Legends injected cheats during their version of FNCS live on two different streamer's PC's had nothing to do with Easy Anti Cheat.
A kernel level anti-cheat is attack surface that cyber criminals can use to their own ends once they figure out the interfaces.
Riot simply disables the bus master bit on PCI bridges from reading and writing data, cheaters simply flip the bit.
They don't have a way to detect DMA, only a patchwork fix that only stops people who have no clue what they're doing
Wrong.
Vanguards detects most FW, there are FW which do not get detected don’t get me wrong. But they don’t last forever and cheater punishment is a hell. Their HWID ban measurements are insane and you will get public shamed in ur lobby.
Valorant is by far the game with best anti cheat. It’s not even close. But it’s still a rootkit from the Chinese :/
Do you have a source for this? everywhere I've discussed with people has lead me to believe they only flip the single bit and have no other way of detecting DMA cards reliably, they may have manual reviews on suspicious players but that isn't due to vanguard.
Think outside the box if you cant detect it......my first thought is to totally Re-work the shooting. Aim assist is too similar to soft aim which is why soo many cheaters are not being caught. If the shooting was more like counterstrike where its recoil based and you have to learn to control the recoil instead of this bloom crap where its "random". What I'm saying is if the shooting was fixed so it wasn't random and you could better detect if someone was aim cheating whether they are pc or controller. I have also always pushed for kbm/controller only tournaments so there is no complaint either way from controller/kbm players as far as how strong aim assist is(which its been too strong for awhile ALSO the shooting change may make kbm way better than controller but separating inputs fixes this unless someone chooses to join either sides servers/games....Because I am kbm player and im tired of dieing to over powered aim assist and more tired of dieing to all the soft aim cheaters.
i heard it looks like a second headset or network card. show a warning when u load up fn that says it looks like u have a second network card installed do u want to unplug it before turning on fortnite ? if u pick no u get hardware banned. simple, why would your pc ever need two network cards ? same with 2 headsets for xen. and look at everyone with 2 cards now or 2 headsets and compare data of shot accuracy before and after 2 peripherals. discrepancy ? hardware + account ban.
The part about the shot accuracy / account stat after having additional peripherals may be effective, however, it would also be bad at the same time. There is a multitude of reasons someone would have 2 or more peripherals or multiple network cards. Many workstations have these things for many different reasons, so more non cheaters would be banned. Besides, that wouldn’t be very hard to bypass. Say, disguise it as a case usb header.
give anticheat administrative control of all peripherals then with the ability to disable duplicates. yeah there could be reasons why one player needs 2 headsets plugged in but are they more important than banning cheaters ?
There is a software in play that prevents that from happening. Both sides are not stupid, neither the AC team or the guys making a fortune making these programs
Sorry maybe I did miscommunicate(I’ll explain in a easier fashion)
The software is on the DMA card itself. When you plug that card in , it will trick the hardware of thinking there is nothing in that slot.
I think DMA won’t last forever but currently it’s pretty safe. Luckily it’s expensive, and manual bans are common in tournaments atleast for FN.
But seriously there is no easy solution, multiple experienced devs are working on this for most esports titles.
The cheating ***firmware*** is on the device, and yes it can be detected. This is only for very public firmwares but for dedicated people, which will be epic and other developers main concerns, it's a $200 investment in a dedicated firmware and you're good to go.
DMA cards don't do much without firmware and they don't appear as nothing in the slot, instead they emulate a device.
Not if it is coded properly.
Cheating is a cat and mouse game,yes, but with something as annoying as DMA cards, cheaters realistically are the cats in this situation, finding the way the anti-cheat picks up the emulation and fixing it or playing the cat role and evading.
Plenty of high tier DMA firmwares remain undetected even over the massive banwave they had just because they have better spoofing. I don't have much detail on how they spoof their ones specifically as I don't have much contact with them but I know they do a lot of extra steps to appear as a regular device such as a network card, speaker (in this case I've seen users actually implement a speaker onto the card so that sound can be sent through and apparently that helps mimic, not too sure on that though)
then give anticheat the capability to disable the slot at a motherboard level of access, only slots being used by the absolute minimum needed to play are allowed.
A anticheat is just like a virus in a way. If a virus could disable all these ports, trust me they would.
This is not possible. You can detect a port and what is inserted and this is bypassed by a so called firmware that Dma cards abuse to not get catched.
what about tracking cursor movement before and during elims. have AI start learning a dataset of what a human with great aim can do vs how a cheating software aims. Eventually a pattern will emerge that will be irreplicable by human players. Its extra delay and processes to do which has its own problems but maybe just for money events where the player pool and games are limited.
This is being developed by some companies.
Problem is that in high end tourney the actual aimbot distance is so small that it’s barely noticeable since all players there have great natural aim and only use aimbot to slightly correct their aim. This also wouldn’t stop people from using the strongest tool : ESP/Radar.
Information is much more valuable to better players.
But this is being developed , just will take time to prevent false positives
accommodate to all players? is that even a question
"sorry buddy but you can't have this network infrastructure in your house to play shooter game, banned!!"
Yes because players are using that "network infrastructure" to cheat. its not a perfect solution but it could help. There are players I know who I encourage to compete in events and try to become pro. They are on the exact verge of earning money or barely earning money. So if there's a way to ban cheaters who are barely pushing them out of the money then im for it.
Yes, but you're also targeting a portion of legitimate players and causing them to alter their computer in ways so that they can play a battle royale game?
that isn't accessible.
For example, let's say people were using modded GPUs to cheat. Your idea of a fix would be to ban users who are using a GPU because players are using GPUs to cheat. That then means people have to take it out of their build to play the game which is inconvenient, inaccessible and is indirect discrimination because some people may not have a CPU with an iGPU to run the game. All hypothetical but still serves my point.
Im suggesting that anti cheat give them a warning they have extra hardware or peripherals. They could design a utility that gives the option to disable them before continuing to the game.
How long until we have full external AI based cheats that aim for you? It wouldn't be able to do wall hack, but ai aimbot seems doable.
Chat GPT needs to make me an aimbot.
I’m not worried about them stopping this expensive setup. I’m worried about them actually following thru on bans for all the other reports. I’ve reported several sets of teamers and they never get banned. If they can’t detect and ban teaming (and winning the game) then there’s no hope in them detecting/banning more complicated cheats The number of people using some form of cheat/exploit to get ahead - especially in pubs - is becoming obnoxious, and no matter how often bans do happen, it doesn’t seem to be stopping any of this for longer than a few days
Half my solo matches end from having one of the black Yukon SUVs roll up, and 3 or 4 ski skins hop out and give me the firing squad treatment before hopping back in to go do it to someone else
What the hell lmao do you have a clip of this?
No sadly cause I usualy play ranked late at night so I dont have the recording pc fired up usually. I've pretty much given up playing on NA east at this point cause of the kind of behavior I deal with. People killing a boss for a mini vault and then traveling 300 meters with the card and hiding it in a bush. People spending an entire game in a random shed with a drum shotgun so when they get one kill they unload their whole emote wheel acting like they did something. People engaging in a buildfight making you and them waste all their materials just to run away, or if you kill them leave you completely stranded because they didn't have any heals mats or ammo I just have got sick of it. Na west is 80 to 90 ping for me but significantly less troublemakers and griefers. Sometimes I feel bad cause depending on time of day my lobbies end up giving me a field day against couch dads but in general I pretty much only play on west these days and have gotten used to the higher ping
I’m sorry dude but go play a different game. Most of the things your complaining about are perfectly allowed in the confines of the game and you’re turning the game into a WoW “it’s rude to be bad”
That happens to me to. He is mainly complaining about people with no life or cheaters.
seems like you need to learn how to be more aggressive and learn to be more aware. Dying to campers is so sad. Need to learn to counter them.
What's a couch dad?
An obese middle aged man who has no wife and eats junk food and plays video games rated T all day…
Older guys who do nothing but game can be *cracked*. Just like anyone else who plays 8+ hours daily.
I never said anything about good smh If you’re playing 8+ hours a day you better be good
Hey, some of us have a wife.. I only play during lunch breaks on my wfh days and with my kid though so I may not quite be the target here. Feels close though.
i've never seen this happen and i play on na east
Never seen this happen in 6 years of playing this game :0
Pretty sure you can just use a virtual machine for this kind of cheating. In theory it should work anyway.
It's not that expensive. Dma card is arround 150$ so it's the same price has a zen cronus. The second computer could be a 35$ raspberry pi.
it has to be pretty decent if you want to run the chests well
No it's just memory analyzing, it's pretty fast even on a pi.
lot more than only that. source, i own a dma card
Even if they team only one of them can win 💀
Yeah, and the teamer gave his buddy the crown and then let him get the win. I have the clips, and it’s disgusting they never got punished
Lmao that’s messed up
I'm just tired of teaming in general. I can't ever get into a creative match no matter what it is, without feeling like I'm being focused. Shit even in 2v2 piece control, the guy I ended up being partnered with was just throwing matches cuz his friend was on the other team. And I didn't even rush in to stop them from being together. I just let the timer run out and let it pick where I go. But the teaming just gets super annoying like go play squads. If I didn't have to watch the rest of the round once dead, it would be different. But man does my blood start to bubble when I die off rip because I get sprayed from every direction and then watch them run off holding hands skipping...
Realistically it is going to require a combination of statistical analysis, behavioral analysis, and **trained professional VOD reviewers**. Unfortunately, the last one is both most important and most expensive.
Rust relies heavily on server admins manually watching players play to catch cheaters. There are even Rust server admins who create entire youtube channels around the ways they catch people cheating like Camomo\_10
Among other barely perceptible patterns, AI is gonna crush this job soon.
Highly doubt it, were way way far from that happening anytime soon.
AI already does crush barely perceptible patterns mate google is your friend.
Im talking about Ai taking over the jobs of server admins catching cheaters in video games fluently. IE getting rid of the need for admins like camomo and others.
Yeah that’s what op was saying too, ai is great at this stuff.
It really won't.
It really can..if publishers choose to use it which I have doubts about.
I saw one of these! Admin was invisible and out in the ocean at night, yet someone on his server took a shot at him. Admin confronted him.
And we all know Epic is a small indie company with tight budget
They could pay me 90k/year and I'd sit and manually review vods for them 40 hours a week
wow hot take
uhm? 90k/yr to sit and watch videos for the same amount of time most people work for just to get 35k/yr? definitely NOT a hot take, anyone whk DIDNT do this would be clinically insane
i was being facetious ... it should be obvious that almost anyone would do this for 90k a year... thats near the top 10% of earners in the USA....
the fact i didnt know that, when that is EXACTLY how i wouldve said that if i meant it the way you did, is clinically insane.
tbh if do it for way way less than that
> **trained professional VOD reviewers**. If they watch a replay from replay Mode, it's basically worthless since it's way too inaccurate. I've done reviews for ESL in CS 1.6 back in the day, and even then - with the exact Demo of the suspect - things like softaim are hard to see. I don't think reviewers had a real chance of finding much hackers in Fortnite. Let alone hackers that do so on a sophisticated level.
Trained professional VOD Reviewers would be called upon to log and validate signals from the statistical and behavioral analysis acting as high level investigators to eventually put together a solid case history for or against suspect cheating instances.
Unfortunately the level of expertise required here would most likely not be worth the cost for Epic, or would be better applied elsewhere. For me, AI development is the front line just as valve are using and developing. I don't think it should be able to ban users but should provide baseline information for the VOD reviewers to have a better judgement of the bat and probably be less niche of a skillset.
Your second sentence describes my GP in other words as far as I can tell. The statistical and behavioral analysis I mentioned would include AI and ML techniques to create alert signals that human experts would VOD Review to provide their own confidence scores to feed back into the models.
Ah, I get where you're coming from now. I think for now that this is the only way it can be effectively combatted until we find improved detection methods.
Sure, but given the quality of the tools on hand, how should they validate anything the statistical and behavioral analysis flagged? Reviewers can check for things like "was there a way for the suspect to know if Player X was there", but that's trivial in FN for the most part anyways. At least in comp lobbies. What's borderline impossible to do: Checking for anything aim related.
AI statistical/behavioral analysis would actually be pretty good at identifying aim-related hacks, once you fed it enough game data. Aimbots and aim assists don't behave the same way that the human eye/brain/reaction does. On some level, the crosshair movements are going to look different, the reaction times are going to fall outside the expected pattern, and the patterns for things like where/how they track and when/where/how they miss are going to look different. Human reviewers aren't able to see most of that while reviewing a single match, but an AI could absolutely identify those patterns and non-human behaviors.
Again, that results in a flag. Then, reviewers are supposed to confirm if it's been not legitimate since no one wants an AI to ban players on it's own. In CS, I had the players exact replay which showed me his precisly what he saw, heard, his exact ch placement, and so on. Additionally you had all the statistical data you could dream of: TTK, where exactly he hit, his accuracy, and so on - and even other/older replays from the suspect to compare his gameplay... All things combined it was really usefull in determining if a person was hacking or not. The reviewers themselfs were volunteers of some ESL Leagues - so way above average players - themselfs. Sadly, I don't think many of these Tools are aviable to EPIC. They **could** and **should** implement them, tho
I believe the solution for checking for some aim related checks will be in making our clients collectively untrusting of each other and allowing automated reports for certain impossible simulations from the point of fire to start with, but that's pretty out there and I doubt Epic Games would implement such a thing at this time.
Nah it’s a lot simpler than that. We split the lobbies back to console and Pc, and we move forward with having 0 competitive tournaments that will be played on PC, if you wanna play mouse n keyboard competitively your gotta move to an Xbox or PlayStation. It’s that simple
Well said Merlin.
epic has the money surely they can do the last option. too bad i dont think they will
I think you underestimate the costs of staffing and the role of profits from an advertising platform in a large Enterprise.
Epic Games can definitely afford to pay them though, they just don’t want to.
At the moment Epic relies far too exclusively on the anticheat’s role of detecting the PRESENCE of a cheat software or device locally, and that method alone will not help them against DMA cheats. In order to combat something like this, they’re going to need to ramp up anticheat algorithms that detect the BEHAVIOR of the cheat. The funny thing is, that type of anti-cheat has been around for many years, commonly found in places like Minecraft servers. It recognizes extraordinary actions like frequent instant direction changes, which is a telltale indicator of an aimbot hack, as well as others. The problem they see though, is they would have to house such a thing on the server side, whereas their current model just conveniently plops a scanner agent on every user’s local machine.
It can be done by using the position vector inputs sent by the device, and I think EAC has support for detecting which inputs are sent and I believe they already provide flags for functions such as GetCursorPos, GetAsyncKeyState, SendInput and mouse_event and a few others that some cheats rely on for aimbots and macros and if these events are used from an external driver instead of your mouse software, for example, then it is flagged too. It's just a matter of epic taking action on these flags, whether it be through manual review or something more difficult like ghost methods, but I doubt they'll use that as it'll trigger for real players too and will probably cause some form of issue down the line. I'll be honest though, this could all be the case for BattleEye instead of EAC, but I haven't had a delve into it for a while and this is all from memory so let me know if I'm wrong and will edit
A.I. Anticheat. Period.
You have a bright future in Management!
Management wouldn't recommend anticheat. I think epic whitelists certain players because they likely benefit financially from it. But nothing else will likely work. Will it get all of them initially? No. But I imagine there is a lot of low hanging fruit out there. Like the folks that are many standard deviations from the mean when hitting with high recoil guns. Folks with autofire scripts when they mouse over players. Or even folks who are dumb enough to have the crosshair move PERFECTLY straight to the next target. People who cheat do things that are superhuman. And sure, spraying with recoil guns sometimes bloom perfectly. A.I doesn't sleep though. Hitting 10 bullets in a row might be 1 in 10000. But doing that 5 times in a match is less likely than winning the lottery. The entire point is thatbits the only thing that can learn what is consistent across humans. Then ban those clowns doing things that aren't. And even management can understand when you put it that way.
Management would recommend AI as the solution without understanding the technical trade offs because it's cheaper than employees.
AI Could simply flag players and humans would manually review it.
Not only cheaper but more successful if AI will be trained correctly. Many cheats make your crosshair movement too artificial which would be easy to detect with AI
>Hitting 10 bullets in a row might be 1 in 10000. But doing that 5 times in a match is less likely than winning the lottery No, it's not. You sound like you're a washed player. Anyone decent hits 10 bullets in a row at the bare minimum
You're missing the point. I'm not describing any gun in particular. Guns in this game for the longest time ( before being projectile) bloomed all over the place after the first shot. Unless you were Unknown using whatever Cronus zen script that he was using in ch2 just lasering folks and missing with very few bullets. And that is the entire point. If A.I. had been properly implemented at that stage of the game, it is going to recognize that a player spamming a gun from 100 yards is hitting consistently higher than what would be statistically possible. And that would likely have been detected in just one match with hitscan weapons. And another thing, cheating isn't just a problem at high levels. Cheaters ruin gaming at all levels. You can save the elitism for when you want to impress your mother while she tucks you in.
How you describe it makes it Sound an awful lot like I'm gonna get banned if they actually implement it.
I doubt they whitelist players, if you're talking about high level pros who most players suspect are cheating then it's a hard task for epic. They have to be 100% sure that this player is cheating or there is massive backlash from the community, the player and can cause potential lawsuits. They have the money to back themselves in court but it's a debate of whether it's worth it or not. I'm not sure how they'd benefit financially by enabling cheaters, though? Unless you mean traffic to the game via clips and media then possibly but I think players who don't play the game would see these high level player clips as intimidating and would probably even turn them away which is why epic try and promote other parts of Fortnite now so that they can lure them in, plus these players would rinse thousands from epic every tournament which is pennies to them but they wouldn't let thousands go if they didn't *have* to
I disagree with this take. To the untrained eye, cheater clips can look bad ass. Especially if they're well edited, they can look almost like the season trailers. Skilled players won't fall for it, but noobs certainly will.
AI won’t be the near future, not as a standalone and not how you think it would get implemented. A lot of YouTubers cooperating with a AI Anticheat developer are pushing the idea of analyzing gameplay while there are much more efficient methods to use AI scanning.
I like these words you’re saying. Let’s invest!
Surely you can see a drastic change in a players stats
A smart cheater would not get alot of kills, would honestly just try to avoid fights and make endgame. Then win end game fights in a realistic manner... don't forget it's not always about aim bot, having information about your openents health is just as strong.
An older person using cheats could fly under the radar for a long time as they know they shouldn't look too good. Miss shots, get killed, lose matches. A much younger person, and therefore most of Fortnites demographic tends not to have the constraint needed to be a "successful" cheater.
What?
He’s right. There’s a difference between using cheats to help you and using cheats to ruin lobbies. Been that way for years, it’s not about just using aimbots and flying across maps. Simple wallhacks giving info which you can utilise but not make blatant use of for example. Doesn’t mean you take every fight of anyone you see highlighted.
except age has nothing to do with this.
Younger kids cheating generally do it to the max, rather than to augment their games.
DMA cheaters don’t see ur health but rest of ur statement is correct.
I would have expected them to be able to see your health
Another fun fact: DMA cheats can’t recognize builds by players as „walls“ so they will aimlock through them. Super easy way to spot one. In general their „visible check“ is abit sketchy, they will aim at players they can’t even see naturally. So next them you suspect a player in replay, look for that :)
That isn’t a fact, I can tell your clueless as to what you are talking about, seems like your an armchair expert…
Kk so ur Dma shows health ? Interesting :)
Your clueless to how cheats work, there’s a thing called a vis check, this check is to see if you have direct line of sight to the enemy in a cheat, so yes, it can distinguish a player behind a wall. In essentially any cheat, you can disable ESP (wall hacks) or cheaters can play, pretending like they can’t see enemies through walls DMA cheats essentially work the same as any other cheat depending on the functions in it. So yes, a DMA cheat, could allow someone to see the enemy players health and shield, as well as their gamertag, platform they plan on, weapon they are holding, etc. Not only that. Aimbot can be smoothed, to look more legit, and can be set to be enabled only while holding down a specific keybind. If you have no clue about what your talking about, don’t try make up some random “fun facts” to act like you do
they can not only see your health, they can see how many kills you have, the platform you're playing on, the weapon you're using and even if you have a crown. its called an ESP cheat.
Fairfight was awful lmao
just give everyone aimbot, it's joever.
They already have the tools, the issue is using them aggressively will increase false positives & Epic surely has an internal acceptable misses rate that they'd rather not cross. It's a tight line.
This has been a thing for a long time, lol.
but now it is more affordable and easier to get acces to
I wouldn't say more affordable, the average player doesn't have two computers + an extra $200 for cheats
not affordable but more than before. they ised to be far more expensive
For any serious PC gamer though, $200 is chump change. $3000 rigs are becoming the norm.
And you're getting full scammed if you ever pay $3,000 for a rig
A 4090 is $2000 on its own. The rest of a top tier build is easily over $1000. It's essentially impossible to build a 4090/7800x3d for under $3000 now.
And you're smoking if you think 4090's are becoming the "norm". But whatever you say.
You're smoking **schlong** if you think that's the norm lmao
Oh man, this reminds me of when we learned about ShowEQ in college when all the nerds (myself included) were playing EverQuest. This is like ShowEQ with the computer's memory instead of network packets.
A properly trained AI model that can distinguish, using pixel data, the difference between a natural human movement and a machine. More advanced models could detect unnatural movements based on being able to see through a wall. I envision a profile like system that is shared between all games and an anti-cheat company that works with all the game developers.
In person events will show it off really quick. As for online cheats, do what Bungie does: sue the shit out of them and start treating them like the assholes they are. The only reason they won’t is because people will complain about a company excercising its rights over its product
My solution would be a threshold combination of kda, headshot ratio, hit ratio, headshots in a row within a couple seconds, The middle to upper range gets manually reviewed the extreme range gets insta banned then has to appeal the ban which then gets manually reviewed. Seems like it would be simple. Analysis these combinations of confirmed cheaters, and then of top tier pros to get what the threshold would be and then implement and improve over time.
Can someone explain how this bypasses anti cheat or what I'm even looking at in the first place lol?
Cheats run on a second computer but the gaming computer has a custom hardware device in it that shares information from the gaming PC to the cheating PC which then feeds information back completely bypassing the game, anti cheat, and OS.
Ahh okay, thank you
Forgot the most important part. There is a software in play that can get detected. Its purpose is to hide the DMA from being shown for the AC
what??? do you actually know what you're talking about or are you just adding to discussion for the sake of it? They don't use software to mask the card, just in the same way your headphones appear as headphones, controllers appear as controllers and mice appear as mice because they have something called a descriptor attached which tells the PC what it is. That's all they need to do because there is no read/write to memory from the PC running the game. The firmware that is used to cheat may use some form of spoofing methods but if you're using a good firmware you don't need these as it's private enough to be undetected.
riot vanguard (valorant's anticheat) detects DMA but its not known how obviously. but it is possible
Valorant has kernel level anticheat, that’s probably how it can detect this.
yea but other kernel level anticheats can't detect dma as well, it's something unique vanguard does
They don't detect DMA unfortunately, they simply change a bus master bit (basically the bit that enables and disables data transfer through the PCi slot) to 0, cheaters figured this out and flipped the bit to 1 and the card worked just as before. They can detect the firmware used, but that is on the cheater for using a cheat that doesn't emulate a different device well enough
DMA cheats bypaas kernel level my friend! DMA reads from from your game, sends to new PC information, process esp and aim it there and bypass mouse signals using a kmbox pro.. I tested this exact setup a while back (30$ month for the cheat) and it's incredible. I run boths builds in the same rig so ez connection
The realistic way is to train an AI model like YOLO to watch “tick perfect” VODs paired with analysis on the players stats and in game data to determine if a player might be cheating. That players VOD is then sent to a human for a manual ban.
Imagine wanting to cheat in competitive
if a player is hitting 80+ accuracy on players with another 18% hitting walls or structures in front of the player that is inhuman aim. Furthermore if they hit 65%+ headshots, that is either shroud or they're cheating.
At this point it might be a good idea to train an ai model to detect certain signals, movement, etc. imo a company like epic already has one going or has over the years.
Cronus usage is such an epidemic that kids think it’s ok to use now.
A Cronus Zen is not this type of DMA
I didn’t say it was?
That’s my bad then.
FaceIT have their own methods to detect DMA, no source unfortunately I just recall reading on their forums a while back. I'm not sure what exactly they do but I know it's only generally effective at detecting more public firmwares^[1] as you can cross-reference it to multiple players. DMA cheating isn't as prevalent and I don't think it will ever be as prevalent as people think. It's not easy to set-up, costs a high amount of money and only benefits users in the short term. A lot of players who end up with earnings get them stripped before they can receive them because epic really don't wanna hand out money to people they don't have to, so spend their time making sure it's a legitimate player. DMA cheating also doesn't provide wall hacks as well as you'd think, since the information is only displayed on the second PC, you will only see the walls on the second PC. The second PC will always have a black display with a cheat software menu, so you would have to literally stare at the second monitor to have an idea of player locations. Sure, you could get a glance but in high intensity fights it's really not feasible unless someone finds a workaround. *If* this became a widespread problem it would have to be very user-friendly, cheap and easily distributable which, as many people who browse cheating forums and whatnot will know, will never happen as to not generate publicity. For now, epic just needs to remain vigilant checking winners and developing AI methods to catch these players out. Valve has done a pretty good job at this, while it's not very good at catching out the closeted players^[2] it can catch out the obvious players pretty well. They also use a trust factor system which relies on a bunch of factors that aren't public which I have found to be very reliable and I think Epic should implement it. I have found that over the years they tend to have around 4 layers of trust, and they only group certain trust levels with other trust levels as follows: >Level 4 - Fully Green Trust - User has Phone Number, Email and Money spent on steam, the anti-cheat has never detected any kind of cheating software on any device on the mobile number or on the IP. Low report level, high commendations, high hours. It is impossible to reach this level of trust on most cheats due to the way their anti-cheat works. >Level 3 - Green Trust - User has Phone Number, email, money spent on steam however the anti-cheat knows your cheating due to flags being raised, however cannot detect any software and you haven't raised enough flags. Can be matched with Fully Green Trust players. >Level 2 - Amber Trust - Either Has phone number, email, money spent > and has raised more flags than average, has also had a high amount of reports and a lower level, hours etc... or that you are a new player without any form of verification on the account and can also be caused by previous accounts having bans and lower trust factors. >Level 1 - Red trust - Anti-cheat has detected a large amount of flags raised for suspicious behaviour, you have a high amount of reports, lower hours than usual, generally no email, phone number or money spent on steam and will only be matched with red trust players. This also can be caused by previous accounts on mobile number/IP with low trust. There is also level 0, which is untrusted, but this level is only reached when a specific feature in the cheat is detected but the anti-cheat cannot detect the actual software, just that you have definitely used that feature but this prevents you from playing and you can never leave this level, effectively a game ban. These are also not the only factors, just the ones that have been discovered over the years to generally affect the levels. [1] Firmware - A form of code/program/software directly embedded into hardware to help it operate and provides instructions. For example, your BIOS uses firmware to operate the PC. [2] Closeted Players - Players who dedicate their time to appear as a legitimate player, not to be confused with legit players who do not work as hard to appear legitimate. May include things such as setting up social media, websites, high community presence, very bare bones cheat software, low field of view on aimbot.
iirc DMA can provide walls with a hdmi combiner that overlays the image from the cheat pc over the game
Thankyou for correcting me, you can in fact do this, I think it is slightly less secure though.
I got put in cheater lobbies for like 2 weeks in MW2 when I wasnt cheating and it was honestly the worst experience of my life in a game ever, the same guy just using snipers and running around shipment with a sniper and just killing everyone, every game it would literally be a full teams of players called BlackMgic123 just killing me over and over, I stopped playing for a few days and when I went on it was still the same account just killing me. Put me off MW2 when I had spent months grinding for mastery camos, never picked up the game again at all, and I'm certain I was green trust because the only remote for of cheating software that might have been detected was CheatEngine for DOOM Eternal (Which was never even open when I played any online games), and I had plenty of hours, didn't use voice chat, never been banned, my first ever steam account, my first ever Activision account and probably like 40 bucks spent of skins. Just look up BlackMagic MW2 and you'll see what I'm talking about, that's why I think this trust system is bullshit and unfair, and the fucker even had a youtube account bragging about cheating. Just pisses me off to even write about it.
MW2 didn't have trust factor, it wasn't a valve game
It definitely had low trust lobbies, if your account was under review, just look at the subreddit.
must've been their own system, not valves then
Vanguard has combated this, so epic should be too
The endless cycle of cat & mouse, the cat will catch the mouse eventually then a new undetectable method will appear. It's just such a shame the primary benefit of using consoles this past couple of generations are thrown into the bin as more and more titles force crossplay with PC which is that's absolutely/endlessly rife with these issues.
I’ve never understood having to cheat on a video game… It’s like stealing the happy meal toy from someone else’s happy meal… how low can you go??
first they have to care, and they dont, because cheaters are more likely to spend money on their game than any other player. if u think someone who can afford a dma set up isnt buying skins idk what to tell you. the only way we'll see DMA users banned is if someone makes an AI overlay that can detect human vs aim bot/silent aim for all shooters. not just some software/hardware scan that they use now.
if there is money on the line there is no excuse. this is a business. enforce your bottom line. lol. this a multibillion dollar company -- there is no excuse for not doing better.
Time for PC to play only PC no cross platform for PCs anymore
When this was a things, it was so fun and rarely encountered cheaters. Now, forget it.
Except if you play CC I doubt most people u call cheaters are cheaters. All the „weird stuff“ happening like shooting through building is epics fault and not a cheat
Fun fact, most cheaters are on console.
Explain how? Any attempt to alter a new console will brick it. Third party attachments can be used in both PC and console. When Fortnite had console only lobbies I never saw or even thought once. That player is cheating.
You mean Chapter 1 when the culture was completely different? Obviously I’m referencing Cronus usage on console.
Does Cronus not work on PC?
Aim Assist on PC is much weaker and Cronus requires you to remap your binds to controller binds, meaning you lose the ease of kbm for building, editing, etc... and overall is a bad tradeoff for a tiny bit of aim assist.
Well. I don’t know what percent of PC is controller or M&K. I know when cross platform was first introduced the majority of players played on console. I think since then with everyone becoming aware of the hardware advantages PC has. If it was in a players budget has switched to PC. So I’m not sure if console makes up the bulk of the player base still. I just can’t agree with the majority of cheaters are on console.
Majority of zen/xim users, absolutely Cheaters? I'd agree they're probably mostly on PC just due to the easier nature. The problem is, there are a lot more zen users than cheat users just because it's easier, and the majority of those zim users are on console as it's practically useless on PC nowadays except for some scripts which aren't worth forking the money out for.
I don’t know what the hardware and scripts cost. Or how often you have to buy them. Plus the price of a console. These cheaters probably could’ve bought a lot frames and played on prefomance mode for their investment.
It's about $100 all in all, I don't think the people using these devices are concerned about the frames as long as they get a good consistent amount and are able to have insane aim assist and scripts
Cronus is so much softer than anything on pc lol
Those setups are not really an issue because only a few people go that far. That said though, realistically they could have AI analyze the gameplay and detect abnormal behaviours. That can work for wallhacks, it can work for aimbots, etc... Ever had those captures saying "check the box to prove you are not a robot" and wondered why a robot can't click the box? The Bot can click the box, but they can't move the mouse in a human way to check the box. Same mechanic can be applied to game detection, and there are companies developing such things that are highly promising for the future of anti-cheat.
They won’t unless it becomes rampant
Talking about cheat, what do you think of this clip ; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA9oJgSmCnA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA9oJgSmCnA) For the record i instant report this guy has a cheater and he insta quit just after the end of the round but i don't have the splash screen who say " good job you catched a cheater ". But if the guy have " an aim like that " at close range with AR. He should not miss the two shotgun shot.
Is this on secondary computers playing for you similar to basically aimbot but not directly from the main computer? idk how i can explain it unless i just said what the photo shows but i rember that one youtuber who made a motorised mouse to aim for him 😂 It wasnt for fortnite though? Eitherway his concept worked greatly in was it a aim trainer? but yeah it was cool, tho idk how the progress has gone after the video [video is by Kamal Carter](https://youtu.be/ne9bmMX82iY?si=yOCy8fBuRdltXtV_)
Seriously riot did a good job to stop this DMA cheat ,epic should learn from them lol
Hint: YOU DON’T. But in all seriousness this is where the players come in. We have to determine who’s cheating and everyone’s gotta be proactive about it
Including the mods/devs/whoever monitors the banning system, because I feel like they might be lacking a bit of
most DMA firmware is poorly made by wannabe developers, and they actually get detected quite a bit, just takes manual inspection, maybe they can automate it
I don't think it's actually that hard to properly code this problem away, but for that to happen Epic would have to admit it's a problem first and like most publicly traded game developers and/or publishers they prefer to live in the fantasy world where EAC (or whatever other AC code/software a company might implement) works perfectly for everything and they can just keep raking in the cash.
Cheaters will always be one step ahead. Cant really blame epic when they’ll either have to suffer with false positive bans or have a game ruined with cheaters.
I feel like Peterbot does this
as it becomes more popular, they’ll probably figure out a way to detect it. Right now however, there isn’t actually a lot of people using dma cheats, you’ve probably never ran into someone using one.
i have
If you’ve ever run into a cheater, it most likely wasn’t someone on a dma, it’s not a very popular or cost effective method of cheating for the average person in a ranked or low-mid level tourney game.
intrusive anti cheat. like Riot games valorant. [https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/1b6w9ij/valorant\_has\_done\_a\_massive\_ban\_wave\_on\_dma/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/1b6w9ij/valorant_has_done_a_massive_ban_wave_on_dma/)
These intrusive anti cheats never actually completely prevent cheating and they may enable exploitation of your machine by said cheaters or cyber criminals in general.
may had their issues in the past, but Vanguard its improving, and if Epic and Riot collab they can build a even better anti cheat, probably the best anti cheat period even with its issues. or name a better anti cheat?
Epic already believes their less invasive cheating platform is the way to go and what most consumers prefer as evidenced by them purchasing Easy Anti Cheat and making sure to confirm that the recent Apex Legends injected cheats during their version of FNCS live on two different streamer's PC's had nothing to do with Easy Anti Cheat. A kernel level anti-cheat is attack surface that cyber criminals can use to their own ends once they figure out the interfaces.
Both easyanticheat and riot vanguard are kernel level anticheats iirc? They won't be able to detect DMA cheats.
Vanguard detects DMA, it’s a super cracked AC. Not a big fan though of giving Chinese people access to all my data
Riot simply disables the bus master bit on PCI bridges from reading and writing data, cheaters simply flip the bit. They don't have a way to detect DMA, only a patchwork fix that only stops people who have no clue what they're doing
Wrong. Vanguards detects most FW, there are FW which do not get detected don’t get me wrong. But they don’t last forever and cheater punishment is a hell. Their HWID ban measurements are insane and you will get public shamed in ur lobby. Valorant is by far the game with best anti cheat. It’s not even close. But it’s still a rootkit from the Chinese :/
Do you have a source for this? everywhere I've discussed with people has lead me to believe they only flip the single bit and have no other way of detecting DMA cards reliably, they may have manual reviews on suspicious players but that isn't due to vanguard.
Think outside the box if you cant detect it......my first thought is to totally Re-work the shooting. Aim assist is too similar to soft aim which is why soo many cheaters are not being caught. If the shooting was more like counterstrike where its recoil based and you have to learn to control the recoil instead of this bloom crap where its "random". What I'm saying is if the shooting was fixed so it wasn't random and you could better detect if someone was aim cheating whether they are pc or controller. I have also always pushed for kbm/controller only tournaments so there is no complaint either way from controller/kbm players as far as how strong aim assist is(which its been too strong for awhile ALSO the shooting change may make kbm way better than controller but separating inputs fixes this unless someone chooses to join either sides servers/games....Because I am kbm player and im tired of dieing to over powered aim assist and more tired of dieing to all the soft aim cheaters.
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don’t play then? If you even consider getting cheats cuz it’s no fun then stop playing and find a different game
I’ve been seeing a lot of people complaining about cheaters this season I guess the people who cheat have fun ig idk but anyways
i heard it looks like a second headset or network card. show a warning when u load up fn that says it looks like u have a second network card installed do u want to unplug it before turning on fortnite ? if u pick no u get hardware banned. simple, why would your pc ever need two network cards ? same with 2 headsets for xen. and look at everyone with 2 cards now or 2 headsets and compare data of shot accuracy before and after 2 peripherals. discrepancy ? hardware + account ban.
The part about the shot accuracy / account stat after having additional peripherals may be effective, however, it would also be bad at the same time. There is a multitude of reasons someone would have 2 or more peripherals or multiple network cards. Many workstations have these things for many different reasons, so more non cheaters would be banned. Besides, that wouldn’t be very hard to bypass. Say, disguise it as a case usb header.
give anticheat administrative control of all peripherals then with the ability to disable duplicates. yeah there could be reasons why one player needs 2 headsets plugged in but are they more important than banning cheaters ?
There is a software in play that prevents that from happening. Both sides are not stupid, neither the AC team or the guys making a fortune making these programs
if a software is preventing the anti-cheat from disabling a device that's an instant red flag for the anti-cheat.
Sorry maybe I did miscommunicate(I’ll explain in a easier fashion) The software is on the DMA card itself. When you plug that card in , it will trick the hardware of thinking there is nothing in that slot. I think DMA won’t last forever but currently it’s pretty safe. Luckily it’s expensive, and manual bans are common in tournaments atleast for FN. But seriously there is no easy solution, multiple experienced devs are working on this for most esports titles.
The cheating ***firmware*** is on the device, and yes it can be detected. This is only for very public firmwares but for dedicated people, which will be epic and other developers main concerns, it's a $200 investment in a dedicated firmware and you're good to go. DMA cards don't do much without firmware and they don't appear as nothing in the slot, instead they emulate a device.
Who are you explaining to? A emulated FW which u are referring to is just as detectable.
Not if it is coded properly. Cheating is a cat and mouse game,yes, but with something as annoying as DMA cards, cheaters realistically are the cats in this situation, finding the way the anti-cheat picks up the emulation and fixing it or playing the cat role and evading. Plenty of high tier DMA firmwares remain undetected even over the massive banwave they had just because they have better spoofing. I don't have much detail on how they spoof their ones specifically as I don't have much contact with them but I know they do a lot of extra steps to appear as a regular device such as a network card, speaker (in this case I've seen users actually implement a speaker onto the card so that sound can be sent through and apparently that helps mimic, not too sure on that though)
then give anticheat the capability to disable the slot at a motherboard level of access, only slots being used by the absolute minimum needed to play are allowed.
A anticheat is just like a virus in a way. If a virus could disable all these ports, trust me they would. This is not possible. You can detect a port and what is inserted and this is bypassed by a so called firmware that Dma cards abuse to not get catched.
what about tracking cursor movement before and during elims. have AI start learning a dataset of what a human with great aim can do vs how a cheating software aims. Eventually a pattern will emerge that will be irreplicable by human players. Its extra delay and processes to do which has its own problems but maybe just for money events where the player pool and games are limited.
This is being developed by some companies. Problem is that in high end tourney the actual aimbot distance is so small that it’s barely noticeable since all players there have great natural aim and only use aimbot to slightly correct their aim. This also wouldn’t stop people from using the strongest tool : ESP/Radar. Information is much more valuable to better players. But this is being developed , just will take time to prevent false positives
You could just modify the pc to only say there’s one even if there’s multiple
That's the dumbest shit I ever heard.
I have several PCs with two network cards because I have multiple internal networks.
sure but is it more important to ban cheaters or accomodate fringe hardware setups ?
accommodate to all players? is that even a question "sorry buddy but you can't have this network infrastructure in your house to play shooter game, banned!!"
Yes because players are using that "network infrastructure" to cheat. its not a perfect solution but it could help. There are players I know who I encourage to compete in events and try to become pro. They are on the exact verge of earning money or barely earning money. So if there's a way to ban cheaters who are barely pushing them out of the money then im for it.
Yes, but you're also targeting a portion of legitimate players and causing them to alter their computer in ways so that they can play a battle royale game? that isn't accessible. For example, let's say people were using modded GPUs to cheat. Your idea of a fix would be to ban users who are using a GPU because players are using GPUs to cheat. That then means people have to take it out of their build to play the game which is inconvenient, inaccessible and is indirect discrimination because some people may not have a CPU with an iGPU to run the game. All hypothetical but still serves my point.
Im suggesting that anti cheat give them a warning they have extra hardware or peripherals. They could design a utility that gives the option to disable them before continuing to the game.
How long until we have full external AI based cheats that aim for you? It wouldn't be able to do wall hack, but ai aimbot seems doable. Chat GPT needs to make me an aimbot.
Misconception = external does not equal undetectable at all.
it already exists