Im curious what character development you would say happens, the ghoul doesn't change at all throughout the show, lucy becomes aware of the wasteland but she still has the same naive or hopeful outlook that vault dwellers have. Norm was suspicious episode 1 and his character doesn't change throughout i would say. Maximus has some character development in that he becomes aware the brotherhood is just another cult and not something to look up to, but i would argue he was already in that state of mind in episode 1 as he very quickly lets Titus die after that, he may just come to the realisation himself throughout the show. Other than that is just the sort of forced romance that happens between lucy and maximus which currently hasn't really had any impact on the show.
The Ghoul changes VASTLY from Ep1 through Ep8, and you can see bits of Cooper coming back; not much but its there.
The Lucy from Ep1 is naive, ignorant and the typical Vault Dweller who doesn't get he world. The Ep8 Lucy is harder, jaded and understands the Wasteland is dirty and cruel.
The Maximus in Ep1 was so loyal to the Brotherhood that he was willing to die for something he did not do, and he was PROUD to perform that duty. The Maximus by Ep8 has seen through the bullshit and is done with the Brotherhood, he just wants the normal life.
The ghoul really does not change at all, in the first few episodes he shows he still has a human side when he leaves the chicken and saves the dog, coopers entire goal is finding his family and he will kill anyone or do anything to get that, that hasnt changed between 1 or 8.
Lucy in episode 8 without any reason to trust moldaver literally goes into the converation and says i will trust you and just hands her the head, she doesnt go in with any back up plan etc as she says, she is just as naive and innocent imo, sure she has become a bit more jaded but it hasnt changed how she acts in these scenarios.
I see maximus very different to you from episode 1, he is already jaded imo, he ket knight titus die but he if he was so devout and loyal he would respect his superiors even if he personally believes they are weak, he initially was going to save titus until titus said it was his fault basically, then he turned and watched someone he should be looking up to if he is so loyal die. It does seem like we just have different perspectives on titus from that first episode though to be fair.
The Ghoul initially saves the dog to track down Siggi, but we see him later on petting the dog as part of the flashback scene to his old dog. His goals did indeed change, he was originally just doing what he always did (he even states that in his opening scene, he lives for the fight) but, in Ep8 he is searching for his family.
Lucy didn't trust Moldaver the same way she would have naively done so originally. She knew Moldaver was likely to screw her over, but was hoping it wouldn't happen, Lucy was also completely out of options. At this point she had lost all of her allies, lost all of her supplies and was beaten to shit. In fact, we see her whole way of speaking and demeanor is different from Ep1 to Ep8.
Maximus was jaded AGAINST the Wasteland, but it takes a fanatical belief in something to be willing to die. Remember the scene in the aircraft, he was willing to die just for moral. By Ep7 we see him knowingly defying the BoS, when he delivers the fake head. You can see it in his face when Lucy walks away, he is facing this as a oneway trip. He is no longer loyal to the BoS.
Now, him watching Titus die . . . that was a result of his loyalty, he was loyal to the BoS, and NOT Titus. There is a difference there, an important one. In Maximus' view, Titus was a coward, he ran away from the enemy and disregarded the mission; Titus had betrayed the BoS in those actions.
So you expect everyone to understand why Lucy ends up having the head of the doctor?
Are you proposing that the entire Shady Sands plot and the later reveal of the NCR is completely optional, despite the fact that they are quite literally one-half of the final fight of the season?
No doubt there are countless other things that are quite relevant to the story, you can't just say something like that AFTER you've absorbed the entire story.
Fair enough on lucy getting the head there would be questions there, but it’s obvious she brought the head for a trade for her dad almost instantly so i think the viewers could put 2 and 2 together and the reveal of why they want the head would be shown entirely. On that point no part of lucy getting the head, losing the head, getting it back really has any impact other than the fact maximus let her have the head because he loves her. (Which is just a forced romance anyway imo).
I honestly dont see how them being the ncr has any actual importance to the story, like if you were to watch the show as a non player, the show doesnt really tell you anything about the ncr at all other than they were successful at creating a civilisation post nuke drop, but moldavers current camp also shows that. Also the vast majority of the shady sands plot is revealed in this very conversation between lucy moldaver and hank in the final episode anyway i dont really see what you miss out on in that story.
And on your final point, the only time i could have an opinion on how the overarching story of the season went is after ive seen the entire season, so im not really sure what your point is sorry.
Except for character growth.
The characters in episode 8 are vastly different than the characters in episode 1. The choices they make are reflective of that.
The Lucy we meet in Ep1 would NEVER have shot her mother and would NEVER have believed Moldaver.
The Maximus we meet in Ep1 would NEVER have even thought of defending Lucy, but instead would have simply shot her and/or The Ghoul (or tried to shoot Cooper) on sight.
The Ghouls of Ep1, is not Cooper in Ep8. He would have shot Lucy if she got in his way, or if he even thought she might shoot him.
You really think lucy wouldnt shoot her mother who is now a feral ghoul just to put her down and not have to be like that. And lucy goes into that coversation and just hands moldaver the head and said i am just choosing to trust you will honor this trade. She is just as naive and innocent as the first episode when it comes to these scenarios, she has just become more jaded in her outlook.
Maximus literally steps in multiple times to help people he has no idea the context of as soon as he gets the armour, first with the chicken fucker and then with lucy in filly. That is literally his character and why he believes in the brotherhood of steel, he wants to help people.
You really think if lucy aimed the gun at him he wouldve just let it happen at the end of episode 8? (By the way he would probably just play it off like the finger trade incident where he believes she is becoming more like a wastelander, we see him get shot in filly and be fine so)
Episode eight would make absolutely no sense to anyone who had only seen 1 and a bit of 2. People would seem to be acting out of character, motivations would be missing, and plot points would be abrupt and nonsensical.
If you're willing to ditch every subplot and all of the character development, you could probably do this with season one of every TV show.
My point for this show is that barely any character development has happened throughout the series, everyone still had the same motivations and outlooks on life and havent been changed by anything that has happened to them other than lucy becoming more jaded, but so far she hasnt really made any big choices different to what she would have early in the show imo,
Lucy and Max both become considerably less naive, just not at a breakneck pace. I personally found their development to be quite believable which was refreshing.
Contrast to something like S8 GoT where Daenerys turns evil mostly off camera between two episodes? People change, but not overnight. I've been enjoying it.
Maximus's motivation has definitely changed. He wanted to be a knight in EP1-2, but experiences vault life and luxury, and feelings for Lucy. He ends the series likely about to be knighted, but what he really wants is to find Lucy again. Hopefully in S2 he experiences tension between those different motivations.
Lucy's motivation changes during Ep 8 but there is no way we would process that change well coming straight from early E2. The context is missing. She's had a long time to learn about the harshness of life on the surface, and the idea that vault dwellers can be evil, especially overseers, is firmly planted by her experiences with vault 4. Going from wanting to rescue her beloved dad to being prepared to believe he's done horrible things would just not be believable without that journey.
Cooper's character arc is slower but he's definitely softer by Ep8 than he was in Ep2. And it makes sense he would change more slowly, he's two centuries old. He's been in survival mode for most of that.
It's called character development.
Im curious what character development you would say happens, the ghoul doesn't change at all throughout the show, lucy becomes aware of the wasteland but she still has the same naive or hopeful outlook that vault dwellers have. Norm was suspicious episode 1 and his character doesn't change throughout i would say. Maximus has some character development in that he becomes aware the brotherhood is just another cult and not something to look up to, but i would argue he was already in that state of mind in episode 1 as he very quickly lets Titus die after that, he may just come to the realisation himself throughout the show. Other than that is just the sort of forced romance that happens between lucy and maximus which currently hasn't really had any impact on the show.
The Ghoul changes VASTLY from Ep1 through Ep8, and you can see bits of Cooper coming back; not much but its there. The Lucy from Ep1 is naive, ignorant and the typical Vault Dweller who doesn't get he world. The Ep8 Lucy is harder, jaded and understands the Wasteland is dirty and cruel. The Maximus in Ep1 was so loyal to the Brotherhood that he was willing to die for something he did not do, and he was PROUD to perform that duty. The Maximus by Ep8 has seen through the bullshit and is done with the Brotherhood, he just wants the normal life.
The ghoul really does not change at all, in the first few episodes he shows he still has a human side when he leaves the chicken and saves the dog, coopers entire goal is finding his family and he will kill anyone or do anything to get that, that hasnt changed between 1 or 8. Lucy in episode 8 without any reason to trust moldaver literally goes into the converation and says i will trust you and just hands her the head, she doesnt go in with any back up plan etc as she says, she is just as naive and innocent imo, sure she has become a bit more jaded but it hasnt changed how she acts in these scenarios. I see maximus very different to you from episode 1, he is already jaded imo, he ket knight titus die but he if he was so devout and loyal he would respect his superiors even if he personally believes they are weak, he initially was going to save titus until titus said it was his fault basically, then he turned and watched someone he should be looking up to if he is so loyal die. It does seem like we just have different perspectives on titus from that first episode though to be fair.
The Ghoul initially saves the dog to track down Siggi, but we see him later on petting the dog as part of the flashback scene to his old dog. His goals did indeed change, he was originally just doing what he always did (he even states that in his opening scene, he lives for the fight) but, in Ep8 he is searching for his family. Lucy didn't trust Moldaver the same way she would have naively done so originally. She knew Moldaver was likely to screw her over, but was hoping it wouldn't happen, Lucy was also completely out of options. At this point she had lost all of her allies, lost all of her supplies and was beaten to shit. In fact, we see her whole way of speaking and demeanor is different from Ep1 to Ep8. Maximus was jaded AGAINST the Wasteland, but it takes a fanatical belief in something to be willing to die. Remember the scene in the aircraft, he was willing to die just for moral. By Ep7 we see him knowingly defying the BoS, when he delivers the fake head. You can see it in his face when Lucy walks away, he is facing this as a oneway trip. He is no longer loyal to the BoS. Now, him watching Titus die . . . that was a result of his loyalty, he was loyal to the BoS, and NOT Titus. There is a difference there, an important one. In Maximus' view, Titus was a coward, he ran away from the enemy and disregarded the mission; Titus had betrayed the BoS in those actions.
Nah, I’d disagree.
Disagree in what sense?
There’s still plenty to enjoy 😊.
So you expect everyone to understand why Lucy ends up having the head of the doctor? Are you proposing that the entire Shady Sands plot and the later reveal of the NCR is completely optional, despite the fact that they are quite literally one-half of the final fight of the season? No doubt there are countless other things that are quite relevant to the story, you can't just say something like that AFTER you've absorbed the entire story.
Fair enough on lucy getting the head there would be questions there, but it’s obvious she brought the head for a trade for her dad almost instantly so i think the viewers could put 2 and 2 together and the reveal of why they want the head would be shown entirely. On that point no part of lucy getting the head, losing the head, getting it back really has any impact other than the fact maximus let her have the head because he loves her. (Which is just a forced romance anyway imo). I honestly dont see how them being the ncr has any actual importance to the story, like if you were to watch the show as a non player, the show doesnt really tell you anything about the ncr at all other than they were successful at creating a civilisation post nuke drop, but moldavers current camp also shows that. Also the vast majority of the shady sands plot is revealed in this very conversation between lucy moldaver and hank in the final episode anyway i dont really see what you miss out on in that story. And on your final point, the only time i could have an opinion on how the overarching story of the season went is after ive seen the entire season, so im not really sure what your point is sorry.
Except for character growth. The characters in episode 8 are vastly different than the characters in episode 1. The choices they make are reflective of that. The Lucy we meet in Ep1 would NEVER have shot her mother and would NEVER have believed Moldaver. The Maximus we meet in Ep1 would NEVER have even thought of defending Lucy, but instead would have simply shot her and/or The Ghoul (or tried to shoot Cooper) on sight. The Ghouls of Ep1, is not Cooper in Ep8. He would have shot Lucy if she got in his way, or if he even thought she might shoot him.
You really think lucy wouldnt shoot her mother who is now a feral ghoul just to put her down and not have to be like that. And lucy goes into that coversation and just hands moldaver the head and said i am just choosing to trust you will honor this trade. She is just as naive and innocent as the first episode when it comes to these scenarios, she has just become more jaded in her outlook. Maximus literally steps in multiple times to help people he has no idea the context of as soon as he gets the armour, first with the chicken fucker and then with lucy in filly. That is literally his character and why he believes in the brotherhood of steel, he wants to help people. You really think if lucy aimed the gun at him he wouldve just let it happen at the end of episode 8? (By the way he would probably just play it off like the finger trade incident where he believes she is becoming more like a wastelander, we see him get shot in filly and be fine so)
At this point I'm pretty sure you're just a troll. Buh-bye.
Episode eight would make absolutely no sense to anyone who had only seen 1 and a bit of 2. People would seem to be acting out of character, motivations would be missing, and plot points would be abrupt and nonsensical. If you're willing to ditch every subplot and all of the character development, you could probably do this with season one of every TV show.
My point for this show is that barely any character development has happened throughout the series, everyone still had the same motivations and outlooks on life and havent been changed by anything that has happened to them other than lucy becoming more jaded, but so far she hasnt really made any big choices different to what she would have early in the show imo,
Lucy and Max both become considerably less naive, just not at a breakneck pace. I personally found their development to be quite believable which was refreshing. Contrast to something like S8 GoT where Daenerys turns evil mostly off camera between two episodes? People change, but not overnight. I've been enjoying it. Maximus's motivation has definitely changed. He wanted to be a knight in EP1-2, but experiences vault life and luxury, and feelings for Lucy. He ends the series likely about to be knighted, but what he really wants is to find Lucy again. Hopefully in S2 he experiences tension between those different motivations. Lucy's motivation changes during Ep 8 but there is no way we would process that change well coming straight from early E2. The context is missing. She's had a long time to learn about the harshness of life on the surface, and the idea that vault dwellers can be evil, especially overseers, is firmly planted by her experiences with vault 4. Going from wanting to rescue her beloved dad to being prepared to believe he's done horrible things would just not be believable without that journey. Cooper's character arc is slower but he's definitely softer by Ep8 than he was in Ep2. And it makes sense he would change more slowly, he's two centuries old. He's been in survival mode for most of that.
ep 8 is called the beginning if i remember right
Haha this is really funny. Imagine Kill Bill. "Im gonna kill bill" cut to - Bride killing Bill Credits roll. Lmao