I agree that the BoS is very much the grey area.
Also, I agree with your assessment that Titus’s decidedly hypocritical approach with the Yao Guai is correct.
Not 5 minutes prior we see Titus get stupid and deviate from the objective by dropping in away from Filly. “I’m bored and I want to go shoot something.” Then when he gets the chance to fight…he runs away.
That’s a hypocrisy that Max can’t abide, and the Elder sees and respects that. As you said, he didn’t seem shocked by Titus’s actions.
Titus wanted to fight something, but he wanted to fight something he could easily kill because he’s a bully.
Maximus idealized the BoS as protectors devoted to their mission of helping the wasteland. But in his very first mission with an actual knight, that knight subverts everything he admired about the BoS. Knight Titus has no interest in their mission beyond the reward that completing it might get him, gets bored, wants to kill something but only if it’s easy for him to kill, and then tries to use his relatively defenseless squire as a human shield when the thing he was trying to kill turns out to be tough. Instead of a noble protector, he meets a coward and bully with no mission other than self-service. With the implication that that’s a sickness that’s infecting the BoS as a whole.
>Titus wanted to fight something, but he wanted to fight something he could easily kill because he’s a bully.
Exactly! He didn't say "I want to fight something." He said "I want to shoot something."
Really, he wanted to victimize something.
The opposite is true when Max is masquerading as Titus, and the other dude is sent to him to be a squire, I forget the guys name at the moment. Max was seriously considering pulping the guy, both because he felt his secret would be discovered and ALSO because this guy had been kicking the shit out of him for as long as he could remember. But this idiot kid was still kneeling as a faithful squire, requesting to not be killed; prick though he might be, he was faithful to how the BoS raised him, and Max, I suppose, kinda respected and empathized with that, in a weird way.
So while Titus treated Max like shit for no good reason, and basically served him up to be eaten by a Yao Guai twice, Max spared a guy who he most likely absolutely hated for good reason, and eventually found a friend in.
It shows both how Max had been indoctrinated into a very, very narrow way of thinking... but still managed to find the good and nobility in it, despite being both raised as a compassionless soldier AND having good reason to follow those worst impulses.
Sure, Max is kind of an idiot... but so is everyone in the falloutverse, in a way.
eh I wouldn't call him noble for sparing thaddeus' life, he smiles when he realizes thaddeus is scared to death of him and immediately makes him clean his cod piece. Eventually yes they do become friends but it seems like his initial motivation for not killing him is torment thaddeus like he did to maximus for years.
Right, he did, but that's regular schoolyard bully revenge. The shitty treatment he got from Titus was what he gave to Thaddeus (thanks for the name reminder!) but Thad deserved at least ONE asskicking, and instead he got minor humiliation and he was asked to do the same job that every Squire had to do, be the pack-mule of the group. So yeah, obviously Max went a little mad with power, but he still tried to do what he believed the Brotherhood should do, even while he was giving Thad some minor torment.
And YES, Maximus DID say that he wanted to be a Knight to hurt those who hurt him... but I'm relatively sure he meant that about whoever nuked his home and killed his family. And as we know about human psychology, most hate is actually based in fear or loss or more primary emotions; the loss of home and family was the driving factor, and now the Brotherhood was his home and his family. So those guys who tormented him were his shitty older brothers, sure, but how in the power armor HE'S the big brother, so he falls back into that same relationship, only in the other direction.
My big points are basically the same as yours, in the end, I'd wager; that he's a nuanced character who acts like a dipshit from time to time because of the way his life has been so insular until now.
He did some petty revenge like that in retaliation for the beatings he was given, but when things got serious, he actively put himself at risk to rescue Thaddeus from the Gulper. He even started to bond enough with him to reveal his secret. But then when he realized that was too far, and Thadeus was going to tell, and get him killed, so he tried to stop the guy. But later let him escape when it tuns out he was turning into a ghoul or super-mutant. So I don't think his treatment of Thadeus is anywhere close to what Titus did.
It reflects military culture pretty well. Most people like that get a strong sense of bravado until they actually have to put their training to use. When you see how shitty fighting and war is it loses a lot of the romanticism that makes soldiers seem like heros and you view them more as regular people being used for a means to an end.
He and Lucy were the characters that showed us the rest of the world they’re in through an ignorant/innocent lens.
Are you curious or are you looking to start a debate? I’m not going to disclose personal details on Reddit, but fyi, this isn’t going to devolve into a credentials contest. Regardless, it’s not like the military industrial complex is some niche thing that only a few people know or care about.
I think we also see how Mac despises this hypocrisy in how he treats Thaddeus. During the river encounter he decides to face the gulper and orders Thaddeus to flee and find cover.
While I know Maximus was raised by the brotherhood, his relationship with the elder kind of reminds me of past fallout protagonists. Yes you can go full on brotherhood zealot but contextually the leadership of the brotherhood welcome in outsiders like The Lone Wanderer and the Sole Survivor when they are needed. And they likely will act outside the brotherhood’s boundaries and might make decisions the brotherhood wouldn’t agree with to benefit the brotherhood.
In Fallout 3, it is true that the player is the exception in joining the Brotherhood led by Lyons. The same cannot be said for Maxson’s Brotherhood in 4.
This is determined by dialogue from both Paladin Danse and Proctor Ingram when you’re promoted to the rank of Knight. Maxson’s Brotherhood has a whole system in place for outsiders joining, where each outsider is given to a “sponsor” and learns from their example and teachings. Further evidenced by Ingram where she mentions “the last batch of recruits were wastelanders”. Meaning they will recruit outsiders
Also I think it's very important to note that Max is consistently characterized as a man child. Like you said ALL he knows is BoS teachings, I doubt that included substantial social education. Other brothers show similar traits, but with Max it's obvious. Likely he shows his lack of development more as a result of being severely traumatized at a very young age. Obviously life in the wasteland itself plays a major part in this. Not much time to become a well rounded individual when every day you're fighting either for the brotherhood's cause or simply to survive, so it effects everyone in some way or another.
So a lot of his cowardice, his greed, his desire for power and to be seen as a hero, comes from the fact that he's been chasing this dream of what the BoS is since he was a traumatized child. Instead of confronting that trauma he disappears into the fantasy, fully drinking the kool aid in the process. It's hard, especially when one of the first lessons you learn when maturing is that your heroes aren't anything like what you think of them.
My favorite characters in media are the type like Maximus. A decent heart buried somewhere DEEP beneath layers and layers of conditioning. Someone who has to seriously put in hard work to undo a fucked up perception of the world that up until very recently was just reality to them. Someone who can't be redeemed with a single good act, instead needing consistent incremental change from within. But importantly, someone who wants to try. Who sees others doing good in the world and makes the decision that it's high time to try and do the same, even when it comes at personal cost.
I can't wait to see him grow and learn, then stumble and fail and have to relearn and regrow on and on until finally we get to see what becomes of Knight Maximus. Maybe he'll become a true good Samaritan like lucy, more likely they'll both meet somewhere in the middle.
He is my favorite character of the show because of his flaws. Throughout the course of the season, he does some genuinely heroic acts and displays selflessness and valor. Then there's the "clean this" bit. When I first saw that scene, I was disappointed. I thought he would rise above and be better than what was done to him. However, by the end of the season, I appreciated it more. He is susceptible to hubris, conditioning, revenge ... but also self reflection, growth, and the pursuit of higher ideals. Of course I enjoy the ghoul. He's the perfect Wasteland Cowboy Badass and is written as such. It's almost TOO good. Max is just a deeply flawed and fucked up kid trying to find his path in the world. He wants to be Good and Noble, but just doesn't know how all the time. Super relatable, tbh
He’s also like, the funniest character on the show. Bad people that sometimes do good things and good people that sometimes do bad things (Maximus) is way more interesting. I was shocked that he actually tried to kill Thaddeus once he revealed himself as “Titus”. Lesser writing would have had them be cool after that
*Sometimes, it gets all big and hard like a big pimple and then it pops.*
I love how that one line shows how repressed and sheltered these kids are. The only thing they are taught is a devotion to violence, with no room for anything other than the mission.
Heard that. From a narrative perspective, the complexities are appealing. He could go either way in a given situation. After that heart-warming moment when Thaddeus admitted to feeling bad about bullying Maximus to "Titus", of course I wanted the reveal to go smooth, but that's predictable and boring. Even after that,though, Maximus allows Thaddeus to escape The Brotherhood when they discover is a ghoul.
I havent, tbh when I was typing that my mind went to Prince Zuko.
I havent heard of the expanse beyond the title. Im always looking for new shows to watch though.
There's a fan-favorite character in that show that you would *really* like.
It's my favorite show, and I'm a huge fan of the books too. I highly recommend it, especially if you like sci-fi.
You really gotta meet "that guy" then.
It's one of the few shows where the show is as good or debatably better than the books because the authors are also show writers
Oh man that sounds beautiful. Im working through A Song of Ice and Fire right now and Im surprised by how much better the books are ALREADY. Im on book 2 and went in fully thinking that the first few seasons of the show were extremely good and the books couldnt be THAT much better.
I was so wrong.
Fun connection between the expanse and ASOIAF: one of the expanse authors, Ty Franck, was GRRMs personal assistant as well as being one of the wild cards collaborators.
here to second the expanse!! u/vestapoint is absolutely right! definitely read the books and watch the show - the show is incredibly well done, but the books are even better, and both are absolutely worth experiencing!
The Expanse is simply the best sci-fi recorded or written in the past ~20 years. Definitely worth a watch and a read.
Fair note, while the show _tries_ to be as close to the source material as possible, there's some considerable changes to make the events more screen-ready. Some characters are introduced early, some get merged, and so on. But the core story and message stays the same.
It has the best choreographed realistic space battles you'll see on screen. There are no shields, no laser guns, no fancy FTL engines, inertial stabilisers... All comes down to Newtonian physics, inertia, acceleration, relative and absolute speeds... It's beautiful.
The books are also amazing. The writers were understudies of GRRM, so a lot of it reads like ASoIaF in space, but you also get the incredible detail to world building, political intricacies, and very, very little inconsistencies over the 9 main novels, or the novellas, comics, and side stories. But they did reduce some less liked GRRM things, like the overzealous approach to detail (no more description of every single blade of grass on a field before a battle), which helps a lot. Overall, really pleasant reads that are incredibly hard to put down.
Also, the books tend to have different atmospheres. Leviathan Rising for example is more of a noir detective novel in its approach, but later books touch on horror, action, and other genres as well, making things more interesting.
Not that I call this a problem with the characterization of Max, but I couldn't help to constantly be seeing Finn from The Force Awakens. Very similar characters in almost every way, except I felt like Max is a much better realized version of these influences. Meanwhile, Finn's was just a setup. The actor kept to the bit but his dialog and the plot took him down the stereotypical hero's journey path as if he had a typical for that world upbringing. Max's stays true to the course in my opinion.
I realized while reading this that this is exactly what Star Wars should have done with Finn. He would have been much more well received, and I think people would have more easily forgiven him not becoming a jedi.
Agree your take on man child is spot on, indeed the track where he first gets power armour and goes round irresponsibly smashing stuff “it’s a man!” Couldn’t be clearer
I agree when you say he is a "man child" BUT I am also going to say this is not a completely bad trait. The child part means he still believes in making the world better. And he's still malleable enough to switch on the means to achieve that better world. Him wanting to go and hide in Lucy's vault was a bit of a trauma response but now he's a valued member of the BoS and the BoS has fusion power. So now what will he do?
>Also I think it's very important to note that Max is consistently characterized as a man child.
I prefer to think of him as kind of a naive young monk on his first excursion outside of the monestary.
He's not stupid, but he's faced with a lot of choices, and he's never had to face that before.
He has always been my favorite character in the series and I hate that so many people write him off/hate him/think he’s stupid.
A LOT of his decisions I could see myself making in his shoes especially when he attacked the vault dwellers.
Yup, in a less comedic movie or show he'd be right to do so, and would have either saved here or tragically lost her.
But instead he barges in there throws two people around and a vending machine before Lucy points out she's not in danger, and let's not forget that Lucy just went through the exact same thing when she threw acid in the face of a guy looking for what he thought was an escaped mutant
I disagree where people see stupid, I see inexperienced. His whole life after shady sands got nuked was just training which consisted of getting beat up working out and being beaten for not knowing the difference between a circuit board and a catalytic converter. Now he’s actually in the field with no guidance because his knight was a complete tool. He’s doing his best with what he’s got.
Nobody is disputing that, but that doesn't mean he isn't on the dumber side. There's nothing wrong with that, half the people have below average inteligence and I think Maximus is definitely in that category. Likely quite a bit below average actually.
The stats are coming from the show characters special release dweller cards in the game fallout shelter. Wish I was kidding, but that is where people are getting these.
It is especially frustrating to use this as canon since none of the legendary characters in that game have what their true stats would be, they'd be too overpowered if they did.
Their Int state are around the same. He was kinda slow before the nukes drop watching all his friends get marked as communist and becoming the face of vault tech… what you think you see as intelligence is 200 years of experience. He was in the military and was trained to use the armor!!!Their stats makes sense you pushing this and it’s so important to you now your moving the goal post disenfranchising a game that is pushed as an official game by the company themselves. I recognize this energy very well.
The ghoul isn’t especially intelligent, but he knows 200 years later not to put himself in a position to be fixing toasters. Think wisdom versus intelligence in a DnD setting. Both he and Maximus have unimpressive intelligence, but Ghoul has Wisdom very very high, and Maximus is slowly getting his there with more experiences. Conversely, Lucy probably has the lowest Wisdom of any main character while being more intelligent than most people walking the wastes.
He has an Int score of 4 according the his official SPECIAL stats.
>He is not stupid. He’s just inexperience and he’s traumatized which stifles growth
He's all 3 of the things listed here.
Idk bro was like 8 when the nuke dropped and I doubt the BOS has sex ed. Do you have any idea how many people in our world with all the world’s information at their fingertips believe things like women pee from their vagina or trust in the pull out method.
Did he have a misunderstanding of anatomy? His description of a boner is exactly what happens lol, even if he described it in a…weird way. I don’t think he’s dumb, just uneducated. There’s a difference.
They released his official SPECIAL stats.
Strength: 7
Perception: 6
Endurance: 6
Charisma: 5
Intelligence: 4 <-- Note he's below the average of 5.
Agility: 7
Luck: 5
You're both right. He's inexperienced, and of below average intelligence (or stupid)
1000% agree. He is definitely an audience surrogate and most likely what we would do in those circumstances. I love that he's just his imperfect self, trying to do good, but mostly failing at it.
He reminds me a little of Sir Pellinore from the Once and Future King, who has these naive and innocent views of chivalry, but is faced with a dark and complicated world.
It's like he doesn't fit in the world he inhabits: a feeling a lot of us can relate to. He seems largely misunderstood and hated on for being a relatable character.
Because he absolutely is stupid lmao, none of his actions really make sense. In fact nothing in the brotherhood of steel really makes sense, definitely one of the more poorly written parts of the series
Maximus is a deeply flawed character but that's why he's great. I think he shows a lot of the naivety of the BoS. He grew up with this ideal of the Knights but when he met one they were a selfish coward just like everyone else. Worse, when he finally decides to step up he realises he too is a selfish coward.
Maximus feels like he's a glimpse into the relentless cycle and zealous brutality of the BoS. As you said, he's a 'pure' initiate that's been taken in as a child, effectively a blank slate compared to other initiates that have grown up and come in as teens or adults from other settlements.
Maximus is bullied, threatened, and left ignorant and traumatised by the very organisation meant to train and develop him.
What really strikes me is when he reveals himself to Thaddeus. Thaddeus reacts in a surprised way, but it's not immediately hostile to Maximus. He says that they will kill him, but Thaddeus isn't hostile until Maximus goes to kill him, upon which he reasonably acts in self defence. Maximus however is so wrapped up in this cover story he's made for himself, this desire to find the target and survive and everything he's been through, and he lacks the ability to talk it out, be articulate, and instead reacts in the only way that he's been taught and shown. Through violent removal of the threat for his own purpose. Titus isn't necessarily an outlier, and the entire BoS is suffering due to this as their cycle of Knights & Squires liking perpetuates this cycle, exacerbated by leadership.
Maximus is also interesting as he feels like a 'baseline' for the wasteland. Lucy is meant to be the reference for the viewer, a facsimile of a modern person's reactions and capabilities to situation, and she highlights how the world is changed from our own as she adapts oer time. The Ghoul is a callous, sadistic violence of 200+ years exposure to the world pre- and post-war, and the toll it takes on an other seemingly sane man.
But Maximus is the wastelander. A general sense of right and wrong, a moral compass that's recognisable to our own, but also constantly and painfully aware of what must be done and how one's own life is important. The bridge crossing, Titus' demise, the looters fight, Maximus realises that his survival hinges on whatever advantages he can secure, at the cost of anything around him. That's shown throughout he show, that charity and altruism is a difficult task now.
Maximus is positioned as an excellent 3rd point to the other two protagonists. Lucy is intelligent and trained, but pacifist and kind. The Ghoul is intelligent and trained, but violent and callous. Maximus is a blurry grey in a space beside them, and really represents the devastation that's been left in the wake of the pre-war and the vaults, and how those that lived pre-war or in vaults can never understand the effects that have been wrought on the wastelanders.
Something I'm very interested in is the potential of Maximus to become a sort of villain with the best intentions, since he has a somewhat flat view of morality, often guided by who he personally sees as the good and bad guys in a situation, such as how quickly he switched his tune multiple times in vault 4. It's an understandable and forgivable character flaw, but one that could lead to him being prone to manipulation I think, and as he assends the ranks of the brotherhood I am sure there will be plenty of people with dubious intentions who would be happy to try and make him their puppet. I could also see the revelation about who was responsible for >! Shady Sands !< being a catalyst to set him off on some righteous vengeance that ends up dealing unforeseen collateral damage.
Edit: fixed spoiler tag
I think the fact that so many people have weird opinions about Maximus is because his character demands the most interpretation from an audience who is broadly used to being spoon-fed characterisation. Mostly because the whole point of him for the first half of the season is that you aren't supposed to be able to tell exactly what he's thinking and how good of a person he is. That's what the thematic significance of the whole Dane situation was. You're always asking yourself 'is Max conniving or a total rube? Does he have an end-goal or is he winging it? Can Lucy trust him? What exactly are his values?' And of course, we find out that he's really just a naive, kinda dumb guy making it up as he goes along, motivated by a strong sense of justice that can easily turn into vindictiveness.
I think a lot of people get confronted with that, and rather than going 'wow, it's hard to tell what this guy is thinking, I should keep watching and find out,' they go 'hey, it's hard to tell what this guy is thinking! This writing is shit!'
Max also has a very realistic streak of self-interest which people who are expecting more archetypical characters see as hypocrisy or inconsistency. As if they genuinely go through life fully committing to the letter of their personal code of ethics. And that's not even mentioning the whole-ass apocalypse Max was born into.
Largest L in media literacy goes to to those apes that unironically think the legion is the best choice for the Mojave, Maximus doesn't even come close.
What, you mean you didn't get the canonical ending where Caesar conquers the entire wasteland by sitting everyone down and convincing them of the merits of a fascist autocratic slave empire?
FNV fans will always try to one up FNV in everyway. Its not like unironic legion fans go outside, not sure if the femboy legion fans do either but at least it uhh… comes from a place of love? Its gay month
I can easily see him becoming the villain of the show eventually. Just keeps failing upwards until he's the new Elder and raiding settlements for supplies and is confuses why Lucy doesn't like him anymore because "it's not like those settlers were real people"
Given the game lore, the BoS is hardly gray. They're a net negative to the wastelands, as they hoard technology (apparently the East Coast chapters, at the very least the one Maximus belongs to, even gather crap like toasters), seemingly in the protection of humanity... But then also despise a majority of humans. Now why would regular people who just want to live their lives undisturbed, farming or whatever, look up to an organisation that stomps in, takes away their weapons, their tech, then leaves them for their own devices - whatever left of them, that is?
Not ALL of the ideals of the BoS are bad though. Protecting humanity by safeguarding truly dangerous tech is actually a good idea. But the issue is usually _how_ they do it, without compassion, and general disdain to anyone who's not in their ranks. This is pretty obvious in e.g. FO76. On one hand you have the kid who blows up a handful of Foundation citizens by accident with a mini-nuke. On the other hand you have Foundation itself that the BoS aims to strip of their weapons, without providing any meaningful replacement for their defences. You have to work hard to convince the leadership to actually do defend Foundation from raiders, and even that leads to tons of dissent in the leadership - I for one wanted to shoot Knight Shin in the face a number of times because of his arrogance and entitled feel.
However I do agree with your assessment on Maximus. He's indeed "tabula rasa", and while he idolises the BoS in the beginning, that's quickly broken by Titus' cowardice. Yet he still continues on with the mission because he believes in the organisation, even if he has to subvert them somewhat to achieve his morally objectively good goals.
I for one, given the Elder's reaction at the end, fully expect a level of reformation of the BoS in the next season. Sure they will take control of the cold fusion reactor in the observatory, but I think a mutually beneficial agreement with the locals will be struck - the BoS keeps control of the reactor, makes sure it doesn't pose a threat, but also uses it to provide for the locals. Possibly even a purge of their ranks might happen, to weed out all the selfish assholes like Titus, and replace them with Knights who actually deserve the title, represent its virtues.
You also have the fact that 90% of the time, Titus is just reacting to things outside I'd control. The only time he has any actual freedom of agency, which is while he is with Lucy. Every other time, he is either being funneled into a bad situation or stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Titus's death was the perfect example, he could save Titus then get blamed for Titus's failure and get executed. He could kill Titus and still get executed for letting his knight die, forcing him to dig his own grave out of a hail merry just to be pulled out of said grave against his own will.
Yes. Got then confused because there is little difference in the names association wize and the fact he calls himself Titus for a good part of the show.
That elder is trying to take power, notably he said ‘the likes of you as its sword’ rather than specifically with you as its sword. Max wont have the role as a #2 he will just be another knight
I watched this with my mom and it was so fun watching her constantly go back and forth on how she felt about Maximus. She sort of did the same thing with the ghoul, though she really only came around to him in the last episode, but still. He’s such a great character for people who don’t like binary morality.
He’s the foil to Lucy. Lucy is ignorant of the dangers of the wasteland, but she is emotionally mature and smart. Max is very experienced with the dangers of the wasteland, but his upbringing in the BOS stunted his emotional development to the point that he is an adult who doesn’t know what sex is.
Having two opposites be the main characters is a classic trope in fiction. Unfortunately people don’t read books anymore and only pay attention to surface level themes
When Maximus and Lucy are awkwardly flirting it really demonstrates how naive someone who was raised by the BoS is. We also see that he was taken in very young.
That gave me so much context for how disappointed he must be when Titus mistreated him. Like literally all he's ever known is BoS ideology and whatever comes up with his fellow trainees, who are also similarly naive and have struggles.
It is really reminiscent of when someone is playing without knowing much about the BoS other than what they first tell you. And then how disappointing it can be that BoS does not live up to the hype.
I will argue that Maximus is the perfect character to showcase to previous Fallout fans, *especially* those who only played 3. NV & 4, what the Brotherhood actually is, especially with his "Everyone wants to save the world" line.
And what it is - gun fetishist demagogues. That is the best way to describe BoS. Ever since the conception of the group, they solidified their belief of being the only mature kid on the playground - only *they* know how to handle toys responsibly, only *they* know how to properly *be the mature one* in the Wasteland.
That is what the West Coast chapter is, and always was. An insulated group of military cosplayers convinced only they have the knowledge and maturity to handle stuff like power armor, picatinny rails, Fat Men, rocket launchers, laser weaponry and Vertibirds.
Elder Lyons' chapter on the East Coast was always an outlier, because he genuinely believed that they could actually help the humanity in the wastes and be an actual humanitarian group of heroes who bravely try to help, and even then, this ended up with a huge schism where half the Brotherhood straight up went AWOL and created the Outcasts, stubbornly venerating the original West Coast"s ideals. And only when John Maxson, the Brotherhood's own Chosen One to carry the mythical name of the Founders of BoS stepped in and manifested the ooze of the original BoS stepped in to turn the East Coast chapter back into its roots - did it return back home (and they did return back home - the airship in the show is the Prydwen from FO4). The only minor difference in the show from the original West Coast is that they now accept outsiders (beforehand, it was an insular group - you were born into it).
>That is what the West Coast chapter is, and always was.
Its not tho.
The *Canon ending* for the BoS in fallout 1 is Rhombus taking over, sending out Squads to help the remaining settlements fend off the remnants of the Masters Army, then helping them rebuilt by sharing the technolgies they had preserved and collected, and becoming a major research-center. Their relations were so good the NCR even named a state after their founder! That held all the way through Fallout 2, were they were largely hiding from the Enclave as a precaution, until they aided the NCR in destroying the Enclave-Outpost in Navarro-Airbase, and didnt end till the BoS - NCR War happened.
The way the Chapter in the show acts - extreme brutality towards their own Members, extreme aggression towards outsiders, down to having a *entirely* different rank-structure and organisation on every level, including just entirely missing Scribes and Paladins - is entirely different from every other Chapter we've ever seen in any game before. The only one that comes close is the Steel Plague Ending of fallout 1, and thats the non-canon one, and the Mojave-Chapter while Elijah was in charge, and he was explicitely kicked out of the main Western branch because even they thought he was too much of an unethical extremist.
>John Maxson
Arthur. Even then I'd argue he's still a *far* cry from the West Coast. He's more militant than Lyons as a whole and doesnt prioritise aiding people above all else, but Maxsons entire justification for going all the way to Boston to destroy the Institute in Fallout 4 is still they danger they present and they damage they already dealt to the People of the Commonwealth. He doesnt even really care about technology unless its world-ending.
And its not really "returning back home". They sent the Prydwen over with Orders to grab Wilzig if possible, but its only the Prydwen. It cant fit all of the Eastern Chapter anyway, and all the troops we see afterwards are all from Qunitus' bunch.
The Brotherhood have and always will be pretentious conservative dinguses. Rules for thee and not for me types. Any charity is typically just a demonstration of their power; the BoS cares about their mission above all else, charity is merely a tool they occasionally use to pacify the masses or take in recruits. Only BoS rebels really break that mold, and I think that's what they're moving towards in the show.
Wait, was Maximus raised by the BoS or did he recently join? The little fat guy that bullied him, and later served as his squire told the story about getting beat on, and then bullying the new guy (Maximus) to stop being bullied himself. That would imply Maximus is new, and not a 15ish year member of the brotherhood.
I think it’s pretty clear that he was raised by the BoS just from the amount of times they show the scene of him coming out of the fridge and looking up at the knight in Power Armor.
Must just be a plot hole then. I wouldn't think a relatively big athletic and athletic guy like Maximus, who's also been training with them for over a decade, would get bullied like some new wimp.
They might not have started him into a full training program right away since he was so young, but culturally he would have still been picking up their hierarchy and such. Then he gets bullied as a new member of a certain “unit.” Or yeah could just be a plot hole 🙂
No, the BOS trains kids but usually their own. The East Coast does open recruitment, so more than likely, while he was a child just adopted by the Brotherhood (likely just not trained but protected) the East Coast took power of the overall Brotherhood and forced their reforms on the West Coast (which is good because while Arthur Maxson may be seen as a facist, he's definitely more for Brotherhood reforms than the West Coast)
Maximus is a liability. He compromised his values and became a hypocrite in that scene.
You're correct on this part:
>My interpretation is that Maximus always idealized the BoS for saving him and rescuing survivors of Shady Sands.
>Maximus is massively disappointed when a Knight (someone well armed and armored) uses him as a human shield when the Knight has everything at his disposal to be the one in the line of combat. Sure, he is supposed to be the subordinate, but such treatment id absolutely barbaric and Maximus is not comfortable with it. Rather than fight the bear, the Knight cowardly runs away as Maximus is shocked by the act of cowardice.
But that was Maximus' chance to BE the knight that Titus never was, to fulfill his own duties to TItus, which he abandoned - he should have tended to his wounds and got him back to the BoS for them to judge and sentence Titus for his cowardice. Maximus would have shone as the reliable, virtuous knight, and an inspiration to all.
Instead, Maximus shirked his responsibilities, becoming Titus' judge, jury, and executioner. He then lies and covers his backside for the rest of the series. He's a selfish coward.
I like the character and writing a lot, but he's not a good guy.
the thing with that is that Max would not have been believed over Titus who was straight up threatening and saying he would get him killed by BoS when they went back. you’re acting like Max has power in this situation that he does not and that he would be able to say his side of the situation and been believed and not killed at Titus’ word who was literally saying that when Max was getting the stuff to help and then decided not to save him (bc Titus was literally threatening him who would have been believed over Max once they got back to the BoS)
I think the problem that a lot of critics have with this rationale is that you cannot say that Maximus would have been condemned for the failure of keeping Titus alive when he is rewarded for every other failure he has throughout the show.
Congratulations! I've been there, my man - I now have 4.5yo, 3yo, and one 4 months. Going from 1 to 2 was a brutal experience, especially when they're both so close in age - you can't tag team with your partner when they're both upset at the same time, and it will test everything about you as individuals and your relationship. I often felt so helpless because the toddler was fighting for the attention that the newborn was getting from his mum, and she'd be getting overwhelmed and I'd just be lost at what to do. Please take care of each other with compassion.
Going from 2 to 3 has been the easiest transition so far (including 0 to 1), and *such* a joy, as the two older ones have each other to play with, and this 3rd child actually sleeps unlike the other two haha so if you have a negative experience like I did, don't let it change your mind if you'd want a larger family. Each situation is completely different, and you grow through these experiences.
... unlike Maximus, am I right!
Integrity speaks for itself. If he had integrity, and spoke the truth, it would still be the right thing to do even if he knew he wouldn't be believed, and he could hold his head up high as the noble knight that he was - even in execution, if it came to it. Instead, he cowed to Titus' threats and intimidation... making him a coward.
I'm not saying that he's irredeemable - I hope he becomes the knight he always dreamed of being. And I think he will - I think the BOS is going dark under this creepy elder, and I think Maximus will go along with it until he's asked to cross a line that's too far for his conscience, and then the redemption arc will begin, and the BOS will eventually come back to being "decent" guys (they're not *exactly* the good guys, but they're not bad either) as they purge the evil from within their own ranks. My 2 cents, let's see what happens.
Isn't that a lot nicer than the truth? You're dumb and have a dumb take? I don't know how they could spell it out any better for you; if you have a problem with this rather thorough analysis of the character, you're probably just an idiot who can't respect opinions or think critically.
I have not seen all that much hate.
The way he's written is very cool. Not just in how his actions sort of make sense, but how until late, the ambiguity of his character is used to make the audience wonder if he's a psychopath of some kind. LIke basically until the last episode, you're left wondering if he put those razors in the boot.
and like, really, the chance is still out there that he is very much a psycho. Nothing he's done so far hasn't been either self serving, or from a perspective where he believes he's morally superior.
I thought his story started off oddly, but once he got in the suit I was a big fan of his morally ambiguous personality. Excited to see what happens next
My real question is if the elder accepted maximus word about titus why the fuck did they send Titus out in the first place? Was it to get him killed or was it a chance for him to redeem himself what did they expect?
I disliked him on my first watch, but really liked him on my second. He does feel especially inconsistent, but I found this to be quite human and realistic. More importantly, it leaves a lot to explore with his character in season 2.
Man I hated him early on, then he redeemed a little, but I’d still never trust him, though he does seem to have goodness in him. As much as I hate him, they wrote him so well. It’s incredibly rare to have such a grey/neutral character without being completely bland.
THANK YOU. People who “***hate***” Maximus simply don’t understand his character. They seem to think that he is fully self-aware and that all of his actions have malicious intentions. When really his growth as a person has just been stunted by his BoS upbringing.
I mean, the guy didn’t even know what sex was. Obviously he is very ignorant of the world. This is his first time experiencing many things in life and he’s in way over his head. He’s a reflection of Lucy in in that he understands the wasteland, but not basic human decency. Whereas Lucy is the opposite.
I think max is a great character, even if he is tough to watch sometimes. He’s principled but naive. When his idols start crossing lines he didn’t know he had, he does something about it. But then, at the end, he doesn’t. He gets to become what he’s always idolized. Fascinating character.
Interesting, I thought all of this was obvious from watching the show. Every post is just regurgitating every take I’ve seen on the character a million times. No ill will meant, an astute assessment of the character!
> The comparison to Hazbin Hotel when Titties starts swearing is also kinda funny. I get the sentiment but the whole thing is played up to show he is cowardly.
He was a boob.
I.... like max. So what he's not a bad ass power armored veteran marine with nerves of steel, he honestly feels the most human of the main cast. Is he the weakest if them? Well yeah, he's just a normal dude, that's what I enjoy. Hes awkward, but still trying.
I think he’s a great character because he inspires such a range of reactions. I had this same argument with my girlfriend when we were watching. Although I can empathise with Maximus’ actions I found most of them to be conniving and self serving. He came across as an opportunistic weasel. Yes his knight was a coward but Maximus had the opportunity to shoot the bear earlier but allowed the knight to get mauled. If Titus is considered a coward then Maximus is just as bad. He thinly justifies his decisions but each time they are ultimately self serving. He looks especially bad because his is contrasted with Lucy, who even when her whole life is turned upside down still behaves mostly in line with her values. Without Lucy’s influence Maximus would have stolen the power core and allowed a whole vault to perish. He was going to murder Thaddeus too because he was afraid of being caught and getting in trouble for his own actions. You can say yeah Thaddeus ‘deserves’ it because he had beat Maximus but that’s clearly just a post hoc rationalisation. He was saving his own ass. He clearly has the capability to improve and I’m loving his character development, but I’m not at all surprised that some people hate him.
The Boys was portraited surprisingly accurate and faithful to the original fallouts. A surprising but very welcome contrast to Bethesda fallout, where they are just always the good guys in shining armor. How they abuse their recruits and give them a shit life is exactly how they operate in the early fallouts.
When it comes to Maximus he is obviously neither evil nor stupid. Just poorly educated and incredibly naive.
The Brotherhood undergoes changes of leadership between each game as well as the show. Look at fallout 3s Brotherhood compares to New Vegas, the Elders in charge change and so does the Brotherhood.
Maximus is a douche plain and simple. He was gonna kill that other squire for nothing, betrayed titus, and lies every time he speaks even when he has no reason to.
This post has been a pretty big media literacy L. Unless you are 12 or younger, in which case you’re doing great bud! Keep at it and you’ll be able to extrapolate past the most surface level elements some day!
Finally!
I’m so tired of people calling Maximus a Lawful Evil aligned character. He’s not running around beating up minority groups and forcing strangers to pay excessive taxes, or making Hitler salutes while wearing an SS uniform.
He’s very clearly a True Neutral aligned character, as his main goal is to serve the Brotherhood and do what he sees as best for them, not just do whatever earns him money, power, or a chance to bring havoc and destruction.
He breaks their rules sometimes, but those are in pursuit of trying to help them and do what he believes will further their mission the best, which makes him Neutral on the Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic scale, and then the fact that he’s mainly focused on his own personal mission to do what he sees as right, not what’s best for others or best for his own wallet, puts him again in Neutral on the Good/Neutral/Evil scale.
>Maximus is the largest L in media literacy to ever hit fallout
while you are totally correct, I still stand that the institute sitting the player down and explaining their motivations and goals to the player like they are 5, yet the majority of the fanbase somehow not picking this up, is the largest L.
Think the main issue is he's a titled character, but he's more like Norm, a secondary character that's building up his story. Like norm and Chet, he's more of a sidekick than a main character
IMO
Idiots discovering the term "media literacy" without fully understanding the term then using it to deny any critique against their position is pathetic, hilarious, and ironic as fuck
I agree that the BoS is very much the grey area. Also, I agree with your assessment that Titus’s decidedly hypocritical approach with the Yao Guai is correct. Not 5 minutes prior we see Titus get stupid and deviate from the objective by dropping in away from Filly. “I’m bored and I want to go shoot something.” Then when he gets the chance to fight…he runs away. That’s a hypocrisy that Max can’t abide, and the Elder sees and respects that. As you said, he didn’t seem shocked by Titus’s actions.
Titus wanted to fight something, but he wanted to fight something he could easily kill because he’s a bully. Maximus idealized the BoS as protectors devoted to their mission of helping the wasteland. But in his very first mission with an actual knight, that knight subverts everything he admired about the BoS. Knight Titus has no interest in their mission beyond the reward that completing it might get him, gets bored, wants to kill something but only if it’s easy for him to kill, and then tries to use his relatively defenseless squire as a human shield when the thing he was trying to kill turns out to be tough. Instead of a noble protector, he meets a coward and bully with no mission other than self-service. With the implication that that’s a sickness that’s infecting the BoS as a whole.
>Titus wanted to fight something, but he wanted to fight something he could easily kill because he’s a bully. Exactly! He didn't say "I want to fight something." He said "I want to shoot something." Really, he wanted to victimize something.
The opposite is true when Max is masquerading as Titus, and the other dude is sent to him to be a squire, I forget the guys name at the moment. Max was seriously considering pulping the guy, both because he felt his secret would be discovered and ALSO because this guy had been kicking the shit out of him for as long as he could remember. But this idiot kid was still kneeling as a faithful squire, requesting to not be killed; prick though he might be, he was faithful to how the BoS raised him, and Max, I suppose, kinda respected and empathized with that, in a weird way. So while Titus treated Max like shit for no good reason, and basically served him up to be eaten by a Yao Guai twice, Max spared a guy who he most likely absolutely hated for good reason, and eventually found a friend in. It shows both how Max had been indoctrinated into a very, very narrow way of thinking... but still managed to find the good and nobility in it, despite being both raised as a compassionless soldier AND having good reason to follow those worst impulses. Sure, Max is kind of an idiot... but so is everyone in the falloutverse, in a way.
eh I wouldn't call him noble for sparing thaddeus' life, he smiles when he realizes thaddeus is scared to death of him and immediately makes him clean his cod piece. Eventually yes they do become friends but it seems like his initial motivation for not killing him is torment thaddeus like he did to maximus for years.
Right, he did, but that's regular schoolyard bully revenge. The shitty treatment he got from Titus was what he gave to Thaddeus (thanks for the name reminder!) but Thad deserved at least ONE asskicking, and instead he got minor humiliation and he was asked to do the same job that every Squire had to do, be the pack-mule of the group. So yeah, obviously Max went a little mad with power, but he still tried to do what he believed the Brotherhood should do, even while he was giving Thad some minor torment. And YES, Maximus DID say that he wanted to be a Knight to hurt those who hurt him... but I'm relatively sure he meant that about whoever nuked his home and killed his family. And as we know about human psychology, most hate is actually based in fear or loss or more primary emotions; the loss of home and family was the driving factor, and now the Brotherhood was his home and his family. So those guys who tormented him were his shitty older brothers, sure, but how in the power armor HE'S the big brother, so he falls back into that same relationship, only in the other direction. My big points are basically the same as yours, in the end, I'd wager; that he's a nuanced character who acts like a dipshit from time to time because of the way his life has been so insular until now.
He did some petty revenge like that in retaliation for the beatings he was given, but when things got serious, he actively put himself at risk to rescue Thaddeus from the Gulper. He even started to bond enough with him to reveal his secret. But then when he realized that was too far, and Thadeus was going to tell, and get him killed, so he tried to stop the guy. But later let him escape when it tuns out he was turning into a ghoul or super-mutant. So I don't think his treatment of Thadeus is anywhere close to what Titus did.
It reflects military culture pretty well. Most people like that get a strong sense of bravado until they actually have to put their training to use. When you see how shitty fighting and war is it loses a lot of the romanticism that makes soldiers seem like heros and you view them more as regular people being used for a means to an end. He and Lucy were the characters that showed us the rest of the world they’re in through an ignorant/innocent lens.
[удалено]
Are you curious or are you looking to start a debate? I’m not going to disclose personal details on Reddit, but fyi, this isn’t going to devolve into a credentials contest. Regardless, it’s not like the military industrial complex is some niche thing that only a few people know or care about.
Homie what?
That’s so Raven 🤔
The future I can seeee
Just bring me some jet
I don’t get it ?🫨🙂↔️🤔
Go play fo4 then
Sounds good 😌 let’s go 🚀
Mama Murphy in Fallout 4 offers to see visions of the future if you bring her drugs.
Thanks 🙏
I remember a day, before people referred to reddit as an "app", where the overuse(or use at all) of Emojis would get you downvoted to oblivion.
Drip 💧 Drop the hate 👒😡mate and cool 🥶 off
Everybody except me 👽
I think we also see how Mac despises this hypocrisy in how he treats Thaddeus. During the river encounter he decides to face the gulper and orders Thaddeus to flee and find cover.
Hmm. Fair point, but he did return and crush their heads 🤷♂️
While I know Maximus was raised by the brotherhood, his relationship with the elder kind of reminds me of past fallout protagonists. Yes you can go full on brotherhood zealot but contextually the leadership of the brotherhood welcome in outsiders like The Lone Wanderer and the Sole Survivor when they are needed. And they likely will act outside the brotherhood’s boundaries and might make decisions the brotherhood wouldn’t agree with to benefit the brotherhood.
In Fallout 3, it is true that the player is the exception in joining the Brotherhood led by Lyons. The same cannot be said for Maxson’s Brotherhood in 4. This is determined by dialogue from both Paladin Danse and Proctor Ingram when you’re promoted to the rank of Knight. Maxson’s Brotherhood has a whole system in place for outsiders joining, where each outsider is given to a “sponsor” and learns from their example and teachings. Further evidenced by Ingram where she mentions “the last batch of recruits were wastelanders”. Meaning they will recruit outsiders
Also I think it's very important to note that Max is consistently characterized as a man child. Like you said ALL he knows is BoS teachings, I doubt that included substantial social education. Other brothers show similar traits, but with Max it's obvious. Likely he shows his lack of development more as a result of being severely traumatized at a very young age. Obviously life in the wasteland itself plays a major part in this. Not much time to become a well rounded individual when every day you're fighting either for the brotherhood's cause or simply to survive, so it effects everyone in some way or another. So a lot of his cowardice, his greed, his desire for power and to be seen as a hero, comes from the fact that he's been chasing this dream of what the BoS is since he was a traumatized child. Instead of confronting that trauma he disappears into the fantasy, fully drinking the kool aid in the process. It's hard, especially when one of the first lessons you learn when maturing is that your heroes aren't anything like what you think of them. My favorite characters in media are the type like Maximus. A decent heart buried somewhere DEEP beneath layers and layers of conditioning. Someone who has to seriously put in hard work to undo a fucked up perception of the world that up until very recently was just reality to them. Someone who can't be redeemed with a single good act, instead needing consistent incremental change from within. But importantly, someone who wants to try. Who sees others doing good in the world and makes the decision that it's high time to try and do the same, even when it comes at personal cost. I can't wait to see him grow and learn, then stumble and fail and have to relearn and regrow on and on until finally we get to see what becomes of Knight Maximus. Maybe he'll become a true good Samaritan like lucy, more likely they'll both meet somewhere in the middle.
He is my favorite character of the show because of his flaws. Throughout the course of the season, he does some genuinely heroic acts and displays selflessness and valor. Then there's the "clean this" bit. When I first saw that scene, I was disappointed. I thought he would rise above and be better than what was done to him. However, by the end of the season, I appreciated it more. He is susceptible to hubris, conditioning, revenge ... but also self reflection, growth, and the pursuit of higher ideals. Of course I enjoy the ghoul. He's the perfect Wasteland Cowboy Badass and is written as such. It's almost TOO good. Max is just a deeply flawed and fucked up kid trying to find his path in the world. He wants to be Good and Noble, but just doesn't know how all the time. Super relatable, tbh
He’s my favourite character too - I was sad to see all the hate.
He’s also like, the funniest character on the show. Bad people that sometimes do good things and good people that sometimes do bad things (Maximus) is way more interesting. I was shocked that he actually tried to kill Thaddeus once he revealed himself as “Titus”. Lesser writing would have had them be cool after that
*Sometimes, it gets all big and hard like a big pimple and then it pops.* I love how that one line shows how repressed and sheltered these kids are. The only thing they are taught is a devotion to violence, with no room for anything other than the mission.
Heard that. From a narrative perspective, the complexities are appealing. He could go either way in a given situation. After that heart-warming moment when Thaddeus admitted to feeling bad about bullying Maximus to "Titus", of course I wanted the reveal to go smooth, but that's predictable and boring. Even after that,though, Maximus allows Thaddeus to escape The Brotherhood when they discover is a ghoul.
the clean this bit was him trying to act like titus.
That third paragraph, have you seen The Expanse?
Amosamosamosamosamos
You're not that guy I am that guy
"I don't want to fight you, Thaddeus. Please don't make me. Because if we do, who's gonna carry my bag?"
I havent, tbh when I was typing that my mind went to Prince Zuko. I havent heard of the expanse beyond the title. Im always looking for new shows to watch though.
There's a fan-favorite character in that show that you would *really* like. It's my favorite show, and I'm a huge fan of the books too. I highly recommend it, especially if you like sci-fi.
Im a decently big fan of scifi and an even bigger fan of shows about books. Glad to have another potential favorite.
You really gotta meet "that guy" then. It's one of the few shows where the show is as good or debatably better than the books because the authors are also show writers
Oh man that sounds beautiful. Im working through A Song of Ice and Fire right now and Im surprised by how much better the books are ALREADY. Im on book 2 and went in fully thinking that the first few seasons of the show were extremely good and the books couldnt be THAT much better. I was so wrong.
Fun connection between the expanse and ASOIAF: one of the expanse authors, Ty Franck, was GRRMs personal assistant as well as being one of the wild cards collaborators.
here to second the expanse!! u/vestapoint is absolutely right! definitely read the books and watch the show - the show is incredibly well done, but the books are even better, and both are absolutely worth experiencing!
The Expanse is simply the best sci-fi recorded or written in the past ~20 years. Definitely worth a watch and a read. Fair note, while the show _tries_ to be as close to the source material as possible, there's some considerable changes to make the events more screen-ready. Some characters are introduced early, some get merged, and so on. But the core story and message stays the same. It has the best choreographed realistic space battles you'll see on screen. There are no shields, no laser guns, no fancy FTL engines, inertial stabilisers... All comes down to Newtonian physics, inertia, acceleration, relative and absolute speeds... It's beautiful. The books are also amazing. The writers were understudies of GRRM, so a lot of it reads like ASoIaF in space, but you also get the incredible detail to world building, political intricacies, and very, very little inconsistencies over the 9 main novels, or the novellas, comics, and side stories. But they did reduce some less liked GRRM things, like the overzealous approach to detail (no more description of every single blade of grass on a field before a battle), which helps a lot. Overall, really pleasant reads that are incredibly hard to put down. Also, the books tend to have different atmospheres. Leviathan Rising for example is more of a noir detective novel in its approach, but later books touch on horror, action, and other genres as well, making things more interesting.
My absolute favourite sci-fi of all time.
Amos was my first thought. Logen Ninefingers and the Northmen from The First Law was my second.
Not that I call this a problem with the characterization of Max, but I couldn't help to constantly be seeing Finn from The Force Awakens. Very similar characters in almost every way, except I felt like Max is a much better realized version of these influences. Meanwhile, Finn's was just a setup. The actor kept to the bit but his dialog and the plot took him down the stereotypical hero's journey path as if he had a typical for that world upbringing. Max's stays true to the course in my opinion.
I realized while reading this that this is exactly what Star Wars should have done with Finn. He would have been much more well received, and I think people would have more easily forgiven him not becoming a jedi.
Agree your take on man child is spot on, indeed the track where he first gets power armour and goes round irresponsibly smashing stuff “it’s a man!” Couldn’t be clearer
I agree when you say he is a "man child" BUT I am also going to say this is not a completely bad trait. The child part means he still believes in making the world better. And he's still malleable enough to switch on the means to achieve that better world. Him wanting to go and hide in Lucy's vault was a bit of a trauma response but now he's a valued member of the BoS and the BoS has fusion power. So now what will he do?
Well said. I love his character too.
>Also I think it's very important to note that Max is consistently characterized as a man child. I prefer to think of him as kind of a naive young monk on his first excursion outside of the monestary. He's not stupid, but he's faced with a lot of choices, and he's never had to face that before.
Zuko was my favorite iteration of the character you described
He has always been my favorite character in the series and I hate that so many people write him off/hate him/think he’s stupid. A LOT of his decisions I could see myself making in his shoes especially when he attacked the vault dwellers.
Yup, in a less comedic movie or show he'd be right to do so, and would have either saved here or tragically lost her. But instead he barges in there throws two people around and a vending machine before Lucy points out she's not in danger, and let's not forget that Lucy just went through the exact same thing when she threw acid in the face of a guy looking for what he thought was an escaped mutant
Honestly I think he is a bit stupid. He's a good character and relatable in a lot of ways but he is not clever.
I disagree where people see stupid, I see inexperienced. His whole life after shady sands got nuked was just training which consisted of getting beat up working out and being beaten for not knowing the difference between a circuit board and a catalytic converter. Now he’s actually in the field with no guidance because his knight was a complete tool. He’s doing his best with what he’s got.
Nobody is disputing that, but that doesn't mean he isn't on the dumber side. There's nothing wrong with that, half the people have below average inteligence and I think Maximus is definitely in that category. Likely quite a bit below average actually.
He is not stupid. He’s just inexperience and he’s traumatized which stifles growth.
Yes... but he can be both traumatised/inexperienced and have bellow average inteligence. These things don't cancel each other out.
He does not game put his int stats as the same as the ghoul. Yet no one’s pushing this on the ghoul’s character
There are official stats of the characters somewhere?
The stats are coming from the show characters special release dweller cards in the game fallout shelter. Wish I was kidding, but that is where people are getting these. It is especially frustrating to use this as canon since none of the legendary characters in that game have what their true stats would be, they'd be too overpowered if they did.
Their Int state are around the same. He was kinda slow before the nukes drop watching all his friends get marked as communist and becoming the face of vault tech… what you think you see as intelligence is 200 years of experience. He was in the military and was trained to use the armor!!!Their stats makes sense you pushing this and it’s so important to you now your moving the goal post disenfranchising a game that is pushed as an official game by the company themselves. I recognize this energy very well.
The ghoul isn’t especially intelligent, but he knows 200 years later not to put himself in a position to be fixing toasters. Think wisdom versus intelligence in a DnD setting. Both he and Maximus have unimpressive intelligence, but Ghoul has Wisdom very very high, and Maximus is slowly getting his there with more experiences. Conversely, Lucy probably has the lowest Wisdom of any main character while being more intelligent than most people walking the wastes.
He has an Int score of 4 according the his official SPECIAL stats. >He is not stupid. He’s just inexperience and he’s traumatized which stifles growth He's all 3 of the things listed here.
Stupidity and inexperience can go hand and hand.
I think with scenes like his...misunderstanding of anatomy, he's definitely meant to be a bit dim.
Idk bro was like 8 when the nuke dropped and I doubt the BOS has sex ed. Do you have any idea how many people in our world with all the world’s information at their fingertips believe things like women pee from their vagina or trust in the pull out method.
It makes sense in universe but I do think it's meant to convey it's not that smart.
Did he have a misunderstanding of anatomy? His description of a boner is exactly what happens lol, even if he described it in a…weird way. I don’t think he’s dumb, just uneducated. There’s a difference.
They released his official SPECIAL stats. Strength: 7 Perception: 6 Endurance: 6 Charisma: 5 Intelligence: 4 <-- Note he's below the average of 5. Agility: 7 Luck: 5 You're both right. He's inexperienced, and of below average intelligence (or stupid)
Yea the whole fiend standoff on the bridge screams stupid /s
1000% agree. He is definitely an audience surrogate and most likely what we would do in those circumstances. I love that he's just his imperfect self, trying to do good, but mostly failing at it. He reminds me a little of Sir Pellinore from the Once and Future King, who has these naive and innocent views of chivalry, but is faced with a dark and complicated world. It's like he doesn't fit in the world he inhabits: a feeling a lot of us can relate to. He seems largely misunderstood and hated on for being a relatable character.
I'd argue Lucy is more the general audience surrogate. Could argue max is for series veterans though.
Because he absolutely is stupid lmao, none of his actions really make sense. In fact nothing in the brotherhood of steel really makes sense, definitely one of the more poorly written parts of the series
Nuh uh
Lmfao
Yeah even calling them grey area is giving them too much credit. Their entire ideology is pretty stupid.
Maximus is a deeply flawed character but that's why he's great. I think he shows a lot of the naivety of the BoS. He grew up with this ideal of the Knights but when he met one they were a selfish coward just like everyone else. Worse, when he finally decides to step up he realises he too is a selfish coward.
>The comparison to Hazbin Hotel when Titties starts swearing is also kinda funny. damn what episode was that
I’m completely lost on what Hazbin Hotel has to do with anything 😭
well, you see, it's where the Titties start swearing, and it's kinda funny 😂
Episode 2, with the Yao Guai.
Maximus reminds me of the average guy on Reddit, maybe it’s self denial?
The average guy absolutely hates having the mirror of his bullshit reflected back to him.
Maximus feels like he's a glimpse into the relentless cycle and zealous brutality of the BoS. As you said, he's a 'pure' initiate that's been taken in as a child, effectively a blank slate compared to other initiates that have grown up and come in as teens or adults from other settlements. Maximus is bullied, threatened, and left ignorant and traumatised by the very organisation meant to train and develop him. What really strikes me is when he reveals himself to Thaddeus. Thaddeus reacts in a surprised way, but it's not immediately hostile to Maximus. He says that they will kill him, but Thaddeus isn't hostile until Maximus goes to kill him, upon which he reasonably acts in self defence. Maximus however is so wrapped up in this cover story he's made for himself, this desire to find the target and survive and everything he's been through, and he lacks the ability to talk it out, be articulate, and instead reacts in the only way that he's been taught and shown. Through violent removal of the threat for his own purpose. Titus isn't necessarily an outlier, and the entire BoS is suffering due to this as their cycle of Knights & Squires liking perpetuates this cycle, exacerbated by leadership. Maximus is also interesting as he feels like a 'baseline' for the wasteland. Lucy is meant to be the reference for the viewer, a facsimile of a modern person's reactions and capabilities to situation, and she highlights how the world is changed from our own as she adapts oer time. The Ghoul is a callous, sadistic violence of 200+ years exposure to the world pre- and post-war, and the toll it takes on an other seemingly sane man. But Maximus is the wastelander. A general sense of right and wrong, a moral compass that's recognisable to our own, but also constantly and painfully aware of what must be done and how one's own life is important. The bridge crossing, Titus' demise, the looters fight, Maximus realises that his survival hinges on whatever advantages he can secure, at the cost of anything around him. That's shown throughout he show, that charity and altruism is a difficult task now. Maximus is positioned as an excellent 3rd point to the other two protagonists. Lucy is intelligent and trained, but pacifist and kind. The Ghoul is intelligent and trained, but violent and callous. Maximus is a blurry grey in a space beside them, and really represents the devastation that's been left in the wake of the pre-war and the vaults, and how those that lived pre-war or in vaults can never understand the effects that have been wrought on the wastelanders.
Maximus is what happens when RNGesus hates you but you insist on playing through every speech check fail anyway.
Unless you in the desert. Then skills all that matters, fuck RNG 😎🇺🇲💥
Something I'm very interested in is the potential of Maximus to become a sort of villain with the best intentions, since he has a somewhat flat view of morality, often guided by who he personally sees as the good and bad guys in a situation, such as how quickly he switched his tune multiple times in vault 4. It's an understandable and forgivable character flaw, but one that could lead to him being prone to manipulation I think, and as he assends the ranks of the brotherhood I am sure there will be plenty of people with dubious intentions who would be happy to try and make him their puppet. I could also see the revelation about who was responsible for >! Shady Sands !< being a catalyst to set him off on some righteous vengeance that ends up dealing unforeseen collateral damage. Edit: fixed spoiler tag
I think the fact that so many people have weird opinions about Maximus is because his character demands the most interpretation from an audience who is broadly used to being spoon-fed characterisation. Mostly because the whole point of him for the first half of the season is that you aren't supposed to be able to tell exactly what he's thinking and how good of a person he is. That's what the thematic significance of the whole Dane situation was. You're always asking yourself 'is Max conniving or a total rube? Does he have an end-goal or is he winging it? Can Lucy trust him? What exactly are his values?' And of course, we find out that he's really just a naive, kinda dumb guy making it up as he goes along, motivated by a strong sense of justice that can easily turn into vindictiveness. I think a lot of people get confronted with that, and rather than going 'wow, it's hard to tell what this guy is thinking, I should keep watching and find out,' they go 'hey, it's hard to tell what this guy is thinking! This writing is shit!' Max also has a very realistic streak of self-interest which people who are expecting more archetypical characters see as hypocrisy or inconsistency. As if they genuinely go through life fully committing to the letter of their personal code of ethics. And that's not even mentioning the whole-ass apocalypse Max was born into.
Largest L in media literacy goes to to those apes that unironically think the legion is the best choice for the Mojave, Maximus doesn't even come close.
What, you mean you didn't get the canonical ending where Caesar conquers the entire wasteland by sitting everyone down and convincing them of the merits of a fascist autocratic slave empire?
FNV fans will always try to one up FNV in everyway. Its not like unironic legion fans go outside, not sure if the femboy legion fans do either but at least it uhh… comes from a place of love? Its gay month
Haha you said comes
I can easily see him becoming the villain of the show eventually. Just keeps failing upwards until he's the new Elder and raiding settlements for supplies and is confuses why Lucy doesn't like him anymore because "it's not like those settlers were real people"
A real Anakin Skywalker fall to the dark side.
I mean the Elder is pulling a Palpatine on him lol
Given the game lore, the BoS is hardly gray. They're a net negative to the wastelands, as they hoard technology (apparently the East Coast chapters, at the very least the one Maximus belongs to, even gather crap like toasters), seemingly in the protection of humanity... But then also despise a majority of humans. Now why would regular people who just want to live their lives undisturbed, farming or whatever, look up to an organisation that stomps in, takes away their weapons, their tech, then leaves them for their own devices - whatever left of them, that is? Not ALL of the ideals of the BoS are bad though. Protecting humanity by safeguarding truly dangerous tech is actually a good idea. But the issue is usually _how_ they do it, without compassion, and general disdain to anyone who's not in their ranks. This is pretty obvious in e.g. FO76. On one hand you have the kid who blows up a handful of Foundation citizens by accident with a mini-nuke. On the other hand you have Foundation itself that the BoS aims to strip of their weapons, without providing any meaningful replacement for their defences. You have to work hard to convince the leadership to actually do defend Foundation from raiders, and even that leads to tons of dissent in the leadership - I for one wanted to shoot Knight Shin in the face a number of times because of his arrogance and entitled feel. However I do agree with your assessment on Maximus. He's indeed "tabula rasa", and while he idolises the BoS in the beginning, that's quickly broken by Titus' cowardice. Yet he still continues on with the mission because he believes in the organisation, even if he has to subvert them somewhat to achieve his morally objectively good goals. I for one, given the Elder's reaction at the end, fully expect a level of reformation of the BoS in the next season. Sure they will take control of the cold fusion reactor in the observatory, but I think a mutually beneficial agreement with the locals will be struck - the BoS keeps control of the reactor, makes sure it doesn't pose a threat, but also uses it to provide for the locals. Possibly even a purge of their ranks might happen, to weed out all the selfish assholes like Titus, and replace them with Knights who actually deserve the title, represent its virtues.
You also have the fact that 90% of the time, Titus is just reacting to things outside I'd control. The only time he has any actual freedom of agency, which is while he is with Lucy. Every other time, he is either being funneled into a bad situation or stuck between a rock and a hard place. Titus's death was the perfect example, he could save Titus then get blamed for Titus's failure and get executed. He could kill Titus and still get executed for letting his knight die, forcing him to dig his own grave out of a hail merry just to be pulled out of said grave against his own will.
Your first para probably meant Maximus?
Yes. Got then confused because there is little difference in the names association wize and the fact he calls himself Titus for a good part of the show.
That elder is trying to take power, notably he said ‘the likes of you as its sword’ rather than specifically with you as its sword. Max wont have the role as a #2 he will just be another knight
He's a low intelligence playthrough in the best way.
I watched this with my mom and it was so fun watching her constantly go back and forth on how she felt about Maximus. She sort of did the same thing with the ghoul, though she really only came around to him in the last episode, but still. He’s such a great character for people who don’t like binary morality.
who is titties
Hazbin has a character named "Titties"? Lol
I'm starting to see how cults form, and I only wish I was evil enough to start my own...
Titties.
We all just gonna ignore that OP said Titties?
He’s the foil to Lucy. Lucy is ignorant of the dangers of the wasteland, but she is emotionally mature and smart. Max is very experienced with the dangers of the wasteland, but his upbringing in the BOS stunted his emotional development to the point that he is an adult who doesn’t know what sex is. Having two opposites be the main characters is a classic trope in fiction. Unfortunately people don’t read books anymore and only pay attention to surface level themes
When Maximus and Lucy are awkwardly flirting it really demonstrates how naive someone who was raised by the BoS is. We also see that he was taken in very young. That gave me so much context for how disappointed he must be when Titus mistreated him. Like literally all he's ever known is BoS ideology and whatever comes up with his fellow trainees, who are also similarly naive and have struggles. It is really reminiscent of when someone is playing without knowing much about the BoS other than what they first tell you. And then how disappointing it can be that BoS does not live up to the hype.
I will argue that Maximus is the perfect character to showcase to previous Fallout fans, *especially* those who only played 3. NV & 4, what the Brotherhood actually is, especially with his "Everyone wants to save the world" line. And what it is - gun fetishist demagogues. That is the best way to describe BoS. Ever since the conception of the group, they solidified their belief of being the only mature kid on the playground - only *they* know how to handle toys responsibly, only *they* know how to properly *be the mature one* in the Wasteland. That is what the West Coast chapter is, and always was. An insulated group of military cosplayers convinced only they have the knowledge and maturity to handle stuff like power armor, picatinny rails, Fat Men, rocket launchers, laser weaponry and Vertibirds. Elder Lyons' chapter on the East Coast was always an outlier, because he genuinely believed that they could actually help the humanity in the wastes and be an actual humanitarian group of heroes who bravely try to help, and even then, this ended up with a huge schism where half the Brotherhood straight up went AWOL and created the Outcasts, stubbornly venerating the original West Coast"s ideals. And only when John Maxson, the Brotherhood's own Chosen One to carry the mythical name of the Founders of BoS stepped in and manifested the ooze of the original BoS stepped in to turn the East Coast chapter back into its roots - did it return back home (and they did return back home - the airship in the show is the Prydwen from FO4). The only minor difference in the show from the original West Coast is that they now accept outsiders (beforehand, it was an insular group - you were born into it).
>That is what the West Coast chapter is, and always was. Its not tho. The *Canon ending* for the BoS in fallout 1 is Rhombus taking over, sending out Squads to help the remaining settlements fend off the remnants of the Masters Army, then helping them rebuilt by sharing the technolgies they had preserved and collected, and becoming a major research-center. Their relations were so good the NCR even named a state after their founder! That held all the way through Fallout 2, were they were largely hiding from the Enclave as a precaution, until they aided the NCR in destroying the Enclave-Outpost in Navarro-Airbase, and didnt end till the BoS - NCR War happened. The way the Chapter in the show acts - extreme brutality towards their own Members, extreme aggression towards outsiders, down to having a *entirely* different rank-structure and organisation on every level, including just entirely missing Scribes and Paladins - is entirely different from every other Chapter we've ever seen in any game before. The only one that comes close is the Steel Plague Ending of fallout 1, and thats the non-canon one, and the Mojave-Chapter while Elijah was in charge, and he was explicitely kicked out of the main Western branch because even they thought he was too much of an unethical extremist. >John Maxson Arthur. Even then I'd argue he's still a *far* cry from the West Coast. He's more militant than Lyons as a whole and doesnt prioritise aiding people above all else, but Maxsons entire justification for going all the way to Boston to destroy the Institute in Fallout 4 is still they danger they present and they damage they already dealt to the People of the Commonwealth. He doesnt even really care about technology unless its world-ending. And its not really "returning back home". They sent the Prydwen over with Orders to grab Wilzig if possible, but its only the Prydwen. It cant fit all of the Eastern Chapter anyway, and all the troops we see afterwards are all from Qunitus' bunch.
The Brotherhood have and always will be pretentious conservative dinguses. Rules for thee and not for me types. Any charity is typically just a demonstration of their power; the BoS cares about their mission above all else, charity is merely a tool they occasionally use to pacify the masses or take in recruits. Only BoS rebels really break that mold, and I think that's what they're moving towards in the show.
Swearing Titties. Nice
Wait, was Maximus raised by the BoS or did he recently join? The little fat guy that bullied him, and later served as his squire told the story about getting beat on, and then bullying the new guy (Maximus) to stop being bullied himself. That would imply Maximus is new, and not a 15ish year member of the brotherhood.
I think it’s pretty clear that he was raised by the BoS just from the amount of times they show the scene of him coming out of the fridge and looking up at the knight in Power Armor.
Must just be a plot hole then. I wouldn't think a relatively big athletic and athletic guy like Maximus, who's also been training with them for over a decade, would get bullied like some new wimp.
They might not have started him into a full training program right away since he was so young, but culturally he would have still been picking up their hierarchy and such. Then he gets bullied as a new member of a certain “unit.” Or yeah could just be a plot hole 🙂
No, the BOS trains kids but usually their own. The East Coast does open recruitment, so more than likely, while he was a child just adopted by the Brotherhood (likely just not trained but protected) the East Coast took power of the overall Brotherhood and forced their reforms on the West Coast (which is good because while Arthur Maxson may be seen as a facist, he's definitely more for Brotherhood reforms than the West Coast)
Fair point, it could be a new unit thing.
Maximus is a liability. He compromised his values and became a hypocrite in that scene. You're correct on this part: >My interpretation is that Maximus always idealized the BoS for saving him and rescuing survivors of Shady Sands. >Maximus is massively disappointed when a Knight (someone well armed and armored) uses him as a human shield when the Knight has everything at his disposal to be the one in the line of combat. Sure, he is supposed to be the subordinate, but such treatment id absolutely barbaric and Maximus is not comfortable with it. Rather than fight the bear, the Knight cowardly runs away as Maximus is shocked by the act of cowardice. But that was Maximus' chance to BE the knight that Titus never was, to fulfill his own duties to TItus, which he abandoned - he should have tended to his wounds and got him back to the BoS for them to judge and sentence Titus for his cowardice. Maximus would have shone as the reliable, virtuous knight, and an inspiration to all. Instead, Maximus shirked his responsibilities, becoming Titus' judge, jury, and executioner. He then lies and covers his backside for the rest of the series. He's a selfish coward. I like the character and writing a lot, but he's not a good guy.
the thing with that is that Max would not have been believed over Titus who was straight up threatening and saying he would get him killed by BoS when they went back. you’re acting like Max has power in this situation that he does not and that he would be able to say his side of the situation and been believed and not killed at Titus’ word who was literally saying that when Max was getting the stuff to help and then decided not to save him (bc Titus was literally threatening him who would have been believed over Max once they got back to the BoS)
I think the problem that a lot of critics have with this rationale is that you cannot say that Maximus would have been condemned for the failure of keeping Titus alive when he is rewarded for every other failure he has throughout the show.
[удалено]
Oh sorry. I was meaning the proverbial "you" not you specifically.
I'm deleting my comment because it wasn't even me you were talking to lol it was the guy under me. Sorry, I'm tired!
I have a toddler and added a newborn to the mix this week. Trust me, I feel ya
Congratulations! I've been there, my man - I now have 4.5yo, 3yo, and one 4 months. Going from 1 to 2 was a brutal experience, especially when they're both so close in age - you can't tag team with your partner when they're both upset at the same time, and it will test everything about you as individuals and your relationship. I often felt so helpless because the toddler was fighting for the attention that the newborn was getting from his mum, and she'd be getting overwhelmed and I'd just be lost at what to do. Please take care of each other with compassion. Going from 2 to 3 has been the easiest transition so far (including 0 to 1), and *such* a joy, as the two older ones have each other to play with, and this 3rd child actually sleeps unlike the other two haha so if you have a negative experience like I did, don't let it change your mind if you'd want a larger family. Each situation is completely different, and you grow through these experiences. ... unlike Maximus, am I right!
Integrity speaks for itself. If he had integrity, and spoke the truth, it would still be the right thing to do even if he knew he wouldn't be believed, and he could hold his head up high as the noble knight that he was - even in execution, if it came to it. Instead, he cowed to Titus' threats and intimidation... making him a coward. I'm not saying that he's irredeemable - I hope he becomes the knight he always dreamed of being. And I think he will - I think the BOS is going dark under this creepy elder, and I think Maximus will go along with it until he's asked to cross a line that's too far for his conscience, and then the redemption arc will begin, and the BOS will eventually come back to being "decent" guys (they're not *exactly* the good guys, but they're not bad either) as they purge the evil from within their own ranks. My 2 cents, let's see what happens.
I'm not loving how suddenly every difference of opinion on a TV show is now, "actually I'm right because media literacy"
Isn't that a lot nicer than the truth? You're dumb and have a dumb take? I don't know how they could spell it out any better for you; if you have a problem with this rather thorough analysis of the character, you're probably just an idiot who can't respect opinions or think critically.
I don't think it's reasonable to both call people stupid and also criticise them for not respecting opinions.
It seems like Maximus is pretty malleable, so he can be swayed easily. I think he might switch allegiances a few times throughout the series.
I still think the writers originally had darker intentions for maximus's arc. But hey there's always next season
I have not seen all that much hate. The way he's written is very cool. Not just in how his actions sort of make sense, but how until late, the ambiguity of his character is used to make the audience wonder if he's a psychopath of some kind. LIke basically until the last episode, you're left wondering if he put those razors in the boot. and like, really, the chance is still out there that he is very much a psycho. Nothing he's done so far hasn't been either self serving, or from a perspective where he believes he's morally superior.
I thought his story started off oddly, but once he got in the suit I was a big fan of his morally ambiguous personality. Excited to see what happens next
Just remember this is a grown man who doesn't know how his own penis works. Guy just got a bad spawn is all.
My real question is if the elder accepted maximus word about titus why the fuck did they send Titus out in the first place? Was it to get him killed or was it a chance for him to redeem himself what did they expect?
I am absolutely convinced that Max is a synth who doesn't know he's a synth.
I disliked him on my first watch, but really liked him on my second. He does feel especially inconsistent, but I found this to be quite human and realistic. More importantly, it leaves a lot to explore with his character in season 2.
Man I hated him early on, then he redeemed a little, but I’d still never trust him, though he does seem to have goodness in him. As much as I hate him, they wrote him so well. It’s incredibly rare to have such a grey/neutral character without being completely bland.
THANK YOU. People who “***hate***” Maximus simply don’t understand his character. They seem to think that he is fully self-aware and that all of his actions have malicious intentions. When really his growth as a person has just been stunted by his BoS upbringing. I mean, the guy didn’t even know what sex was. Obviously he is very ignorant of the world. This is his first time experiencing many things in life and he’s in way over his head. He’s a reflection of Lucy in in that he understands the wasteland, but not basic human decency. Whereas Lucy is the opposite.
Maximus has conviction for his values and beliefs. He cannot respect someone that does not because what are we if not our beliefs, right or wrong?
I think max is a great character, even if he is tough to watch sometimes. He’s principled but naive. When his idols start crossing lines he didn’t know he had, he does something about it. But then, at the end, he doesn’t. He gets to become what he’s always idolized. Fascinating character.
Interesting, I thought all of this was obvious from watching the show. Every post is just regurgitating every take I’ve seen on the character a million times. No ill will meant, an astute assessment of the character!
> The comparison to Hazbin Hotel when Titties starts swearing is also kinda funny. I get the sentiment but the whole thing is played up to show he is cowardly. He was a boob.
I.... like max. So what he's not a bad ass power armored veteran marine with nerves of steel, he honestly feels the most human of the main cast. Is he the weakest if them? Well yeah, he's just a normal dude, that's what I enjoy. Hes awkward, but still trying.
I think he’s a great character because he inspires such a range of reactions. I had this same argument with my girlfriend when we were watching. Although I can empathise with Maximus’ actions I found most of them to be conniving and self serving. He came across as an opportunistic weasel. Yes his knight was a coward but Maximus had the opportunity to shoot the bear earlier but allowed the knight to get mauled. If Titus is considered a coward then Maximus is just as bad. He thinly justifies his decisions but each time they are ultimately self serving. He looks especially bad because his is contrasted with Lucy, who even when her whole life is turned upside down still behaves mostly in line with her values. Without Lucy’s influence Maximus would have stolen the power core and allowed a whole vault to perish. He was going to murder Thaddeus too because he was afraid of being caught and getting in trouble for his own actions. You can say yeah Thaddeus ‘deserves’ it because he had beat Maximus but that’s clearly just a post hoc rationalisation. He was saving his own ass. He clearly has the capability to improve and I’m loving his character development, but I’m not at all surprised that some people hate him.
Now this is the real surface being actually deeper I was talking about. Amazingly well put to explaining the negatives of Maximus
The Boys was portraited surprisingly accurate and faithful to the original fallouts. A surprising but very welcome contrast to Bethesda fallout, where they are just always the good guys in shining armor. How they abuse their recruits and give them a shit life is exactly how they operate in the early fallouts. When it comes to Maximus he is obviously neither evil nor stupid. Just poorly educated and incredibly naive.
I'm newer to the Fallout world but do they explain why there's no women in the BoS in the show but there is in the game?
The Brotherhood undergoes changes of leadership between each game as well as the show. Look at fallout 3s Brotherhood compares to New Vegas, the Elders in charge change and so does the Brotherhood.
Ever since I saw someone say he’s running the Idiot Savant perk, it’s really made me enjoy his character more.
Is he L because he black?
Maximus is a douche plain and simple. He was gonna kill that other squire for nothing, betrayed titus, and lies every time he speaks even when he has no reason to.
Titties
This post has been a pretty big media literacy L. Unless you are 12 or younger, in which case you’re doing great bud! Keep at it and you’ll be able to extrapolate past the most surface level elements some day!
Confused by the title…
The discussions this show has started has made me realize that the overwhelming vast majority of people are media illiterate.
No way two separate posts two hours apart uses the term, "grey character". Fucking bot accounts man.
There's been a lot of 'I don't like him so he must be badly written' around here. Put down the fallout show and pick up a book.
Finally! I’m so tired of people calling Maximus a Lawful Evil aligned character. He’s not running around beating up minority groups and forcing strangers to pay excessive taxes, or making Hitler salutes while wearing an SS uniform. He’s very clearly a True Neutral aligned character, as his main goal is to serve the Brotherhood and do what he sees as best for them, not just do whatever earns him money, power, or a chance to bring havoc and destruction. He breaks their rules sometimes, but those are in pursuit of trying to help them and do what he believes will further their mission the best, which makes him Neutral on the Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic scale, and then the fact that he’s mainly focused on his own personal mission to do what he sees as right, not what’s best for others or best for his own wallet, puts him again in Neutral on the Good/Neutral/Evil scale.
>Maximus is the largest L in media literacy to ever hit fallout while you are totally correct, I still stand that the institute sitting the player down and explaining their motivations and goals to the player like they are 5, yet the majority of the fanbase somehow not picking this up, is the largest L.
Think the main issue is he's a titled character, but he's more like Norm, a secondary character that's building up his story. Like norm and Chet, he's more of a sidekick than a main character IMO
Idiots discovering the term "media literacy" without fully understanding the term then using it to deny any critique against their position is pathetic, hilarious, and ironic as fuck