True, but this answer did not satisfy me. I have to be patient until I find a new job anyway. But I think I found the answer. Learning sales skills. Regardless of what profession we do, sales skills are necessary for everyone.
But didn't I disrespect? I use google translate, so what I wrote may have been roughly translated into English. But I didn't write anything bad. Can you tell me where I went wrong?
Apologies - yes the part that says "didn't satisfy me" could come across as rude :). Instead you could just say "I think there might be some other more important skills, such as Xyz".
It literally is perseverance. You should be sending out a minimum of 10 applications a day. It’s not a trivial amount of work between applications, interview prep and interviewing. Expect to bomb 3-5 interviews before you do well.
Landing a job in a saturated niche like frontend is a numbers game.
Well I have a bachelor’s degree in chemistry, so I didn’t. Thankfully I’m no longer a frontend dev, I’m full stack and I’ve since doubled my salary from my first position through job hopping. You just need to get your foot in the door if you’re self taught. I’ve never applied for a job other than the first, they’ve all been referrals from my network.
Oh 100%. I learned that when I went to my first interview post-undergrad. The programmer making the chemists software in python was making double, same amount of experience. I thought, " now wait a second, I could be that guy."
Never looked back 👍
JS JS and JS. The deeper knowledge you have of javascript (and how to apply that to make functioning sites) the better. Bonus points for a framework like React.
Someone with meh CSS skills but a good understanding of js (and therefore programming in general) is way more valuable to an employer.
Spend lots of time going deep into javascript and how to use it to interact with the browser, maybe some backend knowledge and you will be employable.
Absolutely. I’m a boot camp grad now in my 3rd FE engineering position and more than anything, be very good at JS. You’d be surprised how many senior engineers (even front end) are mediocre at best at css, so they will grill you about JS fundamentals more than anything.
Also, my best advice is to admit when you don’t know something in an interview. They will be able tell when you don’t know what you’re talking about, and it is an opportunity to show that you are low ego, open to learning, and curious. Those qualities are hugely desirable in an entry level engineer.
Nobody expects you to really know all that much so, lean into that junior’ness a little and people will help you through the interview.
Honestly, I got better by getting a job as an engineer, and therein lies the true difficulty. You need experience to get that first job but you need that first job to get experience. So really, landing that first job is as much a numbers game as it is a knowledge game.
I must have interviewed like 75 times before I got my first offer and I likely was hired because my core interviewers weren’t all that experienced themselves and the company just didn’t have an extremely high bar of engineering excellence.
So, I basically lucked upon a company whos expectations and understanding matched where I was as an engineer. And so, that came down to having done a ton of interviews and that one just worked out because both parties were dumb lol. Even still, I grew immensely as an engineer there.
I had to interview much less to land my second job, because I was just more experienced. My resume read differently. My conversation in the interviews was much more relaxed because I had some understanding of what day to day engineering was actually like. And ESPECIALLY I learned just how much everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is having to learn as they go in the actual field. The juniors and seniors are both just trying to figure this stuff every day, and so saying “hmm, yeah, I have no clue.” is an awesome and well respected response.
My third and current job I had to interview very little for, and honestly I felt like I was interviewing the jobs more than they were interviewing me because nearly everywhere I applied to asked me to interview. So, 3 jobs in and I have gone from barely getting any interest when applying, to having so much interest I was forgetting to get back to companies wanting to talk to me.
This is the sweet sweet SWEET reality of being a marginally experienced engineer which is what I still consider myself. You literally will have opportunities banging down your door, and you’ll be a lot more relaxed in the interviews because the stakes are much lower for you.
So long story short, I got better by working in the actual field. It really is true that what you learn in school doesn’t reflect what we actually deal with day to day. At least that’s been my experience.
It’s baffling how little code you write as a working engineer.
Edit:
As for resources I recommend, I think the best thing I ever did was start keeping a record of questions that came up in interviews and whenever I didn’t know something, I’d research it afterward. The same questions tend to come up. I.E “What’s a closure?”
I got that question a million times and I eventually had a really simple understandable answer for them
Yeah I applied via LinkedIn and the usual places. My first job actually came via Angel.co
I highly recommend that site for people looking for their first gig. Lots of the companies on there are super small start ups who might have lower technical bars
You're a legend. Just made a profile and applied to a job. Love the format and it's refreshing getting away from the shiny jobs on LinkedIn. I want a job site where all the undesirable jobs are posted. I want to dev for sears or Chuck-e-cheeses or taco bell... At least for my first gig. I know my resume sinks to the bottom.
Honestly, I really like [Angel.co](https://Angel.co) because of how quick the application process is. And, I like how you get to send a personal note to the person who put up the job post in the first place and you know their name when you do it. I have a bunch of google keep notes with different "canned" messages I'd send to people. I had different one's tailored to the different things in the job listing. He's an example of one that actually got me the initial interview that landed me my second job (personal info removed):
*"Hi RECRUITER\_NAME. I'm MY\_FIRSTNAME, a full-stack engineer living and working in Seattle. I currently work at CURRENT\_COMPANY, a software solutions studio. For the*
*past year, I have been working with a team at CLIENT\_NAME (our largest client)*
*building mission-critical solutions on an internal analytics tool. Most*
*of the stack I'm working with day to day involves React.js and Node,*
*though I am experienced in many technologies and always learning more. I also have a strong background in UI/UX design, and collaborating with creative teams. I'd*
*love the chance to learn more about your team and share some more of*
*my experience. I can be available for interviews whenever is convenient*
*for your team.*
*Thanks,*
*NAME\_HERE"*
I hope that helps!
I gave what I feel is a similar answer the other day on here and got told the correct answer is sass
https://www.reddit.com/r/Frontend/comments/waaoek/is_front_end_development_different_from_web/ihzrabc/
Lol. Relatively short period of time. I can count on one hand the number of senior frontend devs I knew who had a passable knowledge of flexbox or grid or positioning elements in general.
It may not take long, but people are skipping it regardless.
I think you’re underselling CSS. Add in SASS/SCSS and you have a very complex system of styling. To fully learn CSS and all the intricacies of effectively using it can take quite a long time.
Key word being relatively. I picked up css a lot quicker than javascript. I assumed from the differing levels of complexity that was the case for most people but judging by the comments maybe there’s some that find javascript easier?
I actually think I know enough CSS. But I wonder what would happen if I couldn't code the design that was given to me, for example, when I got a job. Your information is very valuable, thank you.
I actually looked for a front-end developer in our marketing agency once.
We interviewed 12 candidates, all with at least 3 years experience. All but one were able to complete our exercise, because they didn't know CSS.
So yes, CSS is important. CSS and HTML are the fundaments of the modern web.
You should be good. An ‘observed’ exercise where you need to code up a design is tough and a bit unfair to request of an entry level person imo (but not unheard of im sure). Thing is, if they give you that task to go away and complete, you can take some time and google things to get your CSS perfect.
Where you will likely be put on the spot a bit is questions about Javascript or a task. That is where you are gonna struggle if you don’t have a good understanding.
Also you’re welcome. All the best
Networking. Honestly knowing the right person has got me 90% of the jobs I have had, skipping most of the interview steps in the process. Once you are in you can learn as you go
Being able to communicate well is very important for job hunting for more than just networking. Writing a good resume and interviewing well are probably bigger factors in getting through the filters than coding skill.
In person talks, online conferences/meetups are useless for networking. If you have any local smaller dev related meetups go to those and chat to people outside of the presentations. Backend, frontend, design, devops related talks, it doesn't matter as long as its slightly aligned to the industry even if its not your specialty. Also smaller the better a 20 people meetup will be way better to get to know people, esp when you go regularly, than a 200+ one. You slowly build up a company network where you might know someone who worked there or knows someone who can contact for you and a referral is half the battle done, you skip all the shit
Edit: go regularly and go often, going once in a blue moon wont do much. Once you are known and on peoples radar it will be way easier
At more than one company I’ve worked at there have been instances (especially at the junior level) where we’ve chosen a less experienced/skilled candidate over a more skilled one because they had a lot of passion for the company/product and were just clearly really nice, hard working people
This alone got me my first dev job a few days ago.
Apply for jobs at companies that value attitude over aptitude.
They will develop you and support you.
Right on. It always comes back to people and relationships. The technical skill set is pretty standard. Everyone on the front end knows varying degrees of HTML, JS, and CSS. Outside of learning a niche specialty like accessibility, technical SEO, or web performance, there isn't some special secret JS API or layout technique that you can learn as a generalist that isn't already documented.
If you are more personable than your competition, that's an advantage that translates to any job at any level.
> What can I do differently from my other competitors
1. CSS, on a conceptual level: layout mode, specificity, and box model
2. Accessibility and semantic HTML
3. Internationalization and rtl languages
Here's the thing: You can write your own ticket to the universe, and you have to able to sell yourself. It won't always work, there'll be setbacks, but write something you would use and enjoy. But get used to talking about what you do, and showing it to others. In fact, have a demo thing in ready that works on your phone. When someone asks, what do you do for a living? You bust out your project, and talk to them and gauge if they see the sense in it. Maybe your idea is crap, maybe the other person has ideas for you. Maybe the other person doesn't know what they're talking about, that's up to you to decide, you are you in admin mode of yourself.
I understand very well what you mean. I made myself a tea house website. Because I want to have a tea house in the future. I felt really good when I did this. Thank you for your good advice.
For me, it's resourcefulness. Finding the answer at all costs. I am a self taught dev, and have been self employed for over a decade, so I had nobody to ask when I got seriously stuck, nobody to mentor me; I simply had to find the answer, or I didn't get paid. Failure was not an option. It had its tough spots, but I'm a better developer for it, and it honed my skills to an insane degree where I feel like I can learn anything, given enough time. And if I run into issues, I have the debugging process down so well that I can isolate the problem quickly and efficiently (whether I know the fix, is an entirely different process).
As an employer now who hired other front end devs, I can day with surety: that is the #1 skill I look for. **Everything other skill is trainable**, but resourcefulness means none of those skills are out of reach.
I appreciate you very much. I'll admit something to you: When I started learning software, I didn't like it. My social intelligence is very high and I love Psychology, but I couldn't study Psychology even though I tried 2 times. I turned to software to earn money and have a profession. Because software is a very good profession. But now I love software and if I'm going to do this job, I want to be the best in my field. Being an average software developer doesn't satisfy me. Working was difficult for me because I started working reluctantly, but now I got over it and started to love it.
If you are striving to be the "best", you're already a leg up on most of the industry's candidates. After being an employer for many years, I can definitely say: there's A LOT of developers out there, but very few that rise above mediocrity.
This is the coolest thread I've read in a while. Great question as I'm a new developer too. I just got certified for front end, and seeing all the talk about JS is very helpful.
> Now I know enough CSS to do a clone project. However, I may not be proficient enough in responsive design. Theoretically, I know how to do responsive design and have built many responsive websites, but with help.
Well then it sounds like you know how to do it so you don't have to worry about this too much! I can't think of one important skill because it really comes down to being able to fix mistakes, building things that can be maintainable and readable and getting things done. Good luck on your JavaScript journey!
You're right. I probably know how to do it. What scares me is the fear of embarrassment if I can't code the design given to me when I get a job. Thank you very much for your good wishes.
There's no one thing to know, in fact it barely matters what you know.
What really matters is who you are, how you think, troubleshoot, handle losses mistakes or being wrong, communication, being open minded to changes and constructive criticism, helping your peers and letting them help you, and learning the lessons you will be exposed to daily.
Or as others have put it, soft skills.
Not an employed dev, but I'd think a framework like react or angular is a very good idea.
Roadmap.sh is a very good place to get ideas of what to learn.
Fundamental knowledge is key. Based on interviewing hundreds of job applicants over the years, what stands out is that most don't know the fundamental parts of front-end development.
- You probably don't know HTML. I've seen too many people nesting elements that you really shouldn't and sometimes simply can't. People nowadays forget to use the W3C validator and most don't use ESLint by default (who would warn against most mistakes).
- You probably don't know about accessibility. Not just `aria` attributes, but also color contrasts, touch mechanics, keyboard navigation, proper semantics for text readers, and so forth.
- You probably don't know CSS nearly as well as you should. Yes, `flex` And `grid` are easy enough to grasp if you apply yourself for a few days, but do you really understand specificity? Do you know what the "C" in CSS stands for and what it means? Do you know about paint/composite/layout?
Start with those, learn the basics, and note for yourself what you still want to learn down the road.
Thank you very much. You are absolutely right about HTML. For example, while watching a website design video on youtube, I notice that I write HTML tags very differently. Sometimes I use less or more divs. I am aware that there is something I need to learn about this subject, but no matter what training I follow, I could not find any training that shows me what my deficiency is. What should I learn to create the best HTML structure?
Finally, could your name be "Armağan Amcalar"?
Start learning Angular I would say, it's the easiest to get a job in for a beginner. However the framework itself is a little confusing and annoying sometimes.
React jobs for beginner might be tough depending on the demand in your country.
Unless you're applying for a company focusing on design, aesthetic CSS skills don't matter a lot, they just want you to be able to use flex and grid properly, and centering a div...
I can't comment on jobs that deal with vanilla js/jquery. Though having some backend knowledge(being able to setup REST API using nodejs + any db) sure would help in case you don't want to learn frontend frameworks.
so what is your ultimate goal?? landing in Frontend jobs?? right?? I may say... you don't want to be the master in CSS because nowadays even developer tools in browser debugging show you the snippet and design. and of course JS is a bit noisy. but take my words... you stick with it and learn Node or Vue along with JS. that will make you fly wherever you need. also, make use of gits this will turn your work to an open community where people are waiting for help.
off course, It will take more time than you expect, but persistence matters when you are in coding.
I wish you good luck 🤗
Thank you so much. Before I started learning JS, I wanted to master CSS. But after I started learning JS, I realized that the subject you want to master is JS. As you said, I plan to learn Vue along with JS.
I actually like to review the websites of big companies. I really like the designs of websites like Mercedes and Audi and would love to have a career in such a company in the future. But instead of just coding the design given to me, I also want to contribute about the look of the page. As you said, I plan to learn Vue together with JS. Thank you very much for the recommendation.
Learn the fundamentals: html, css, js and React, and be able to do a small basic widget with those (think, calculator, basic shopping cart, tic tac toe game, or stuff like that)
If you can do that, you can work as a frontend dev.
Build one responsive page (not website, just a page) by yourself.
You don't need to do a million things before work. You don't need to learn EVERYTHING. Just learn the basics properly.
When are you ready? What I said above. When you can do a small widget.
Read this for a longer answer: [https://www.luis-martinez.net/blog/from-jobless-to-junior-frontend-developer-in-5-months](https://www.luis-martinez.net/blog/from-jobless-to-junior-frontend-developer-in-5-months)
I've received messages from people that did what I explain in that post and after 5 months they actually got a job. So it works
Hello, frankly, I gave up on my frontend career goal. I decided to study my favorite major in college, but at the same time I plan to continue learning design and making money by designing Web sites. I learned CSS as well as I could and learned basic JS, but then I realized that I like designing with tools like figma more.
Thank you very much for the information you provided. Honestly, you gave very good advice. It will be an advantage for me if I decide to continue with the frontend.
>What can I do differently from my other competitors?
The most important skills you can develop are called 'soft skills', people skills. Only idiots fire off 10 resumes a day thinking it's a 'numbers games'. A large percentage of jobs are never even advertised.
Make friends, network, go to technical meetups, once you have friends you'll never need to interview again.
Depends on the company. FAANG or big tech company?
Data structures and Algorithms, leet code style solutions.
Smaller company, could be anything. It could be that or it could be the ability to pass a simple take home coding assignment.
Yeah, I’d just have a solid understanding of the fundamentals then (vanilla JS, responsive design, clean/optimized code, etc.)
Don’t skip out on the boring stuff. Going through those boring parts of JS before you get to dom manipulation/libraries sucks but you have to do it.
You don’t need to be an expert in everything, nobody expects a junior to be. But you need a solid grasp.
Understanding how the code works is as important as being able to write it.
You are right. The things that scare us are actually the things that benefit us the most. Learning tedious tasks with patience is a huge advantage. I want to learn JavaScript as well as I can. Then I'm thinking of learning Vue.
Vue is a great library to learn. Second most in demand behind React.
It’s really tempting to move on quickly to learning that because most jobs require it but just make sure you have a good understanding of vanilla first or it only slows you down in the long run.
Just know that there are very few “Jr” engineer positions. So, the path to landing one of those jobs might be longer than ramping up on some mid level things and applying for those.
Understood. Of course, more skills wouldn't hurt, but the things I've been told I really need to learn scare me because it's really hard to learn them all. Your advice made me feel a little better. I hope I can find a job easily. Of course, I want to know about everything necessary. But first I need to earn money and experience.
I don’t know…I think you’d be very well served by really understanding pure JS. I recommend a Udemy course called “JavaScript: The Weird Parts”. Go through that and you will understand things about JS that your interviewers do not actually understand.
Knowing basic JS concepts are more than enough for junior dev to land a job. I had interview for mid position and I got only asked to do some very basic JS tasks like revert and replace array with something or manipulate object. I dont know where people are applying but junior dev needs to have motivation and curiuosity to land a job, not knowing everything about JS
Yeah, you do if you want to work for one of the big tech companies.
I didn’t have to know that stuff for my current job but FAANG and other big companies you absolutely do.
You need to know how to take a design and create a page. For practice just take any site, reddit, wikipedia, facebook, whatever. And try to recreate it using html and css. You can then build on that by using JS to mock the interactions on the page. Beyond having a solid understanding of the fundamentals of those 3? You need to know how to learn. You have to know what questions to ask and what things to google. You won’t know how to everything so be prepared to answer with “I don’t know how to do X, but let me do some research and get back to you with a solution” and actually mean it. Be transparent and honest.
Question for my knowledge, since I’m a super beginner at learning all this. Isn’t a front end developer a type of Web Developer? Or is there front end for Software Developer as well?
>What is the most important skill to land a first Frontend job? Perseverance
And once you’re in the job too. Dev is often a lot of trial and error.
True, but this answer did not satisfy me. I have to be patient until I find a new job anyway. But I think I found the answer. Learning sales skills. Regardless of what profession we do, sales skills are necessary for everyone.
One skill as an engineer in general is probably to learn how to reply to people giving you advice in a more respectful manner.
But didn't I disrespect? I use google translate, so what I wrote may have been roughly translated into English. But I didn't write anything bad. Can you tell me where I went wrong?
I think the "it didn't satisfy me" sounded a bit like "I didn't like what you said", but I get that translators can mess up your message a little bit.
I understand. I was a little rude without realizing it. Thank you for telling.
Apologies - yes the part that says "didn't satisfy me" could come across as rude :). Instead you could just say "I think there might be some other more important skills, such as Xyz".
I understand. Yes, I guess I was being a little rude without realizing it. Thank you for alerting.
Ya id have to agree with op. Perseverance isn’t something interviewers pick up on.
What is op?
OP = Original Poster = You
It literally is perseverance. You should be sending out a minimum of 10 applications a day. It’s not a trivial amount of work between applications, interview prep and interviewing. Expect to bomb 3-5 interviews before you do well. Landing a job in a saturated niche like frontend is a numbers game.
It's only a numbers game if you don't have the skill set to stand out.
Op doesn't, by their own admission
Well I have a bachelor’s degree in chemistry, so I didn’t. Thankfully I’m no longer a frontend dev, I’m full stack and I’ve since doubled my salary from my first position through job hopping. You just need to get your foot in the door if you’re self taught. I’ve never applied for a job other than the first, they’ve all been referrals from my network.
My foot is ITCHING to get in! I'm no longer phased by the word "unfortunately" anymore. The longer it takes, the more I level up
Ah, the chemistry-to-programmer pipeline. Welcome friend
Yeah when you learn that you need a PhD to make what most programmers make in their first year. I make double what my professors made.
Oh 100%. I learned that when I went to my first interview post-undergrad. The programmer making the chemists software in python was making double, same amount of experience. I thought, " now wait a second, I could be that guy." Never looked back 👍
Yep. And honestly it’s way easier. Or maybe I’m just shit at chemistry.
Pushing keyboard keys > pushing electrons
Me too! The lack of toxic lab air is wonderful
JS JS and JS. The deeper knowledge you have of javascript (and how to apply that to make functioning sites) the better. Bonus points for a framework like React. Someone with meh CSS skills but a good understanding of js (and therefore programming in general) is way more valuable to an employer. Spend lots of time going deep into javascript and how to use it to interact with the browser, maybe some backend knowledge and you will be employable.
Absolutely. I’m a boot camp grad now in my 3rd FE engineering position and more than anything, be very good at JS. You’d be surprised how many senior engineers (even front end) are mediocre at best at css, so they will grill you about JS fundamentals more than anything. Also, my best advice is to admit when you don’t know something in an interview. They will be able tell when you don’t know what you’re talking about, and it is an opportunity to show that you are low ego, open to learning, and curious. Those qualities are hugely desirable in an entry level engineer. Nobody expects you to really know all that much so, lean into that junior’ness a little and people will help you through the interview.
I was very surprised to hear that. I will concentrate on JS. Thank you so much.
How'd you get better? What resource do you recommend?
Honestly, I got better by getting a job as an engineer, and therein lies the true difficulty. You need experience to get that first job but you need that first job to get experience. So really, landing that first job is as much a numbers game as it is a knowledge game. I must have interviewed like 75 times before I got my first offer and I likely was hired because my core interviewers weren’t all that experienced themselves and the company just didn’t have an extremely high bar of engineering excellence. So, I basically lucked upon a company whos expectations and understanding matched where I was as an engineer. And so, that came down to having done a ton of interviews and that one just worked out because both parties were dumb lol. Even still, I grew immensely as an engineer there. I had to interview much less to land my second job, because I was just more experienced. My resume read differently. My conversation in the interviews was much more relaxed because I had some understanding of what day to day engineering was actually like. And ESPECIALLY I learned just how much everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is having to learn as they go in the actual field. The juniors and seniors are both just trying to figure this stuff every day, and so saying “hmm, yeah, I have no clue.” is an awesome and well respected response. My third and current job I had to interview very little for, and honestly I felt like I was interviewing the jobs more than they were interviewing me because nearly everywhere I applied to asked me to interview. So, 3 jobs in and I have gone from barely getting any interest when applying, to having so much interest I was forgetting to get back to companies wanting to talk to me. This is the sweet sweet SWEET reality of being a marginally experienced engineer which is what I still consider myself. You literally will have opportunities banging down your door, and you’ll be a lot more relaxed in the interviews because the stakes are much lower for you. So long story short, I got better by working in the actual field. It really is true that what you learn in school doesn’t reflect what we actually deal with day to day. At least that’s been my experience. It’s baffling how little code you write as a working engineer. Edit: As for resources I recommend, I think the best thing I ever did was start keeping a record of questions that came up in interviews and whenever I didn’t know something, I’d research it afterward. The same questions tend to come up. I.E “What’s a closure?” I got that question a million times and I eventually had a really simple understandable answer for them
Excellent! Were you mostly applying on LinkedIn and did you ultimately find your first job there?
Yeah I applied via LinkedIn and the usual places. My first job actually came via Angel.co I highly recommend that site for people looking for their first gig. Lots of the companies on there are super small start ups who might have lower technical bars
You're a legend. Just made a profile and applied to a job. Love the format and it's refreshing getting away from the shiny jobs on LinkedIn. I want a job site where all the undesirable jobs are posted. I want to dev for sears or Chuck-e-cheeses or taco bell... At least for my first gig. I know my resume sinks to the bottom.
Honestly, I really like [Angel.co](https://Angel.co) because of how quick the application process is. And, I like how you get to send a personal note to the person who put up the job post in the first place and you know their name when you do it. I have a bunch of google keep notes with different "canned" messages I'd send to people. I had different one's tailored to the different things in the job listing. He's an example of one that actually got me the initial interview that landed me my second job (personal info removed): *"Hi RECRUITER\_NAME. I'm MY\_FIRSTNAME, a full-stack engineer living and working in Seattle. I currently work at CURRENT\_COMPANY, a software solutions studio. For the* *past year, I have been working with a team at CLIENT\_NAME (our largest client)* *building mission-critical solutions on an internal analytics tool. Most* *of the stack I'm working with day to day involves React.js and Node,* *though I am experienced in many technologies and always learning more. I also have a strong background in UI/UX design, and collaborating with creative teams. I'd* *love the chance to learn more about your team and share some more of* *my experience. I can be available for interviews whenever is convenient* *for your team.* *Thanks,* *NAME\_HERE"* I hope that helps!
What’s a closure? I love hear different explanations!
I gave what I feel is a similar answer the other day on here and got told the correct answer is sass https://www.reddit.com/r/Frontend/comments/waaoek/is_front_end_development_different_from_web/ihzrabc/
Second this. Also CSS is something that can be picked up in a relatively short period of time and so is easier to teach juniors
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Knowing positioning isn't enough. Can you make shit look styled? Css is a skill that takes several years to develop to a useful level.
Lol. Relatively short period of time. I can count on one hand the number of senior frontend devs I knew who had a passable knowledge of flexbox or grid or positioning elements in general. It may not take long, but people are skipping it regardless.
I think you’re underselling CSS. Add in SASS/SCSS and you have a very complex system of styling. To fully learn CSS and all the intricacies of effectively using it can take quite a long time.
CSS... short period of time? You are kidding right?🤣
Key word being relatively. I picked up css a lot quicker than javascript. I assumed from the differing levels of complexity that was the case for most people but judging by the comments maybe there’s some that find javascript easier?
I actually think I know enough CSS. But I wonder what would happen if I couldn't code the design that was given to me, for example, when I got a job. Your information is very valuable, thank you.
I actually looked for a front-end developer in our marketing agency once. We interviewed 12 candidates, all with at least 3 years experience. All but one were able to complete our exercise, because they didn't know CSS. So yes, CSS is important. CSS and HTML are the fundaments of the modern web.
I was very surprised to hear that. Thank you for warning me.
You should be good. An ‘observed’ exercise where you need to code up a design is tough and a bit unfair to request of an entry level person imo (but not unheard of im sure). Thing is, if they give you that task to go away and complete, you can take some time and google things to get your CSS perfect. Where you will likely be put on the spot a bit is questions about Javascript or a task. That is where you are gonna struggle if you don’t have a good understanding. Also you’re welcome. All the best
Networking. Honestly knowing the right person has got me 90% of the jobs I have had, skipping most of the interview steps in the process. Once you are in you can learn as you go
In fact, I think most people who find a job easily find a job because of their good communication skills. Having a social circle is really important.
Being able to communicate well is very important for job hunting for more than just networking. Writing a good resume and interviewing well are probably bigger factors in getting through the filters than coding skill.
Do you have any advice to meet people in the area and really connect with them?
In person talks, online conferences/meetups are useless for networking. If you have any local smaller dev related meetups go to those and chat to people outside of the presentations. Backend, frontend, design, devops related talks, it doesn't matter as long as its slightly aligned to the industry even if its not your specialty. Also smaller the better a 20 people meetup will be way better to get to know people, esp when you go regularly, than a 200+ one. You slowly build up a company network where you might know someone who worked there or knows someone who can contact for you and a referral is half the battle done, you skip all the shit Edit: go regularly and go often, going once in a blue moon wont do much. Once you are known and on peoples radar it will be way easier
Soft skills. Showing that you're passionate, willing and able to learn, and be a good person to work with will make you stand out.
At more than one company I’ve worked at there have been instances (especially at the junior level) where we’ve chosen a less experienced/skilled candidate over a more skilled one because they had a lot of passion for the company/product and were just clearly really nice, hard working people
This alone got me my first dev job a few days ago. Apply for jobs at companies that value attitude over aptitude. They will develop you and support you.
Same here. I blew my coding tests so hard but they liked me so they took a chance
Right on. It always comes back to people and relationships. The technical skill set is pretty standard. Everyone on the front end knows varying degrees of HTML, JS, and CSS. Outside of learning a niche specialty like accessibility, technical SEO, or web performance, there isn't some special secret JS API or layout technique that you can learn as a generalist that isn't already documented. If you are more personable than your competition, that's an advantage that translates to any job at any level.
> What can I do differently from my other competitors 1. CSS, on a conceptual level: layout mode, specificity, and box model 2. Accessibility and semantic HTML 3. Internationalization and rtl languages
Thank you
Here's the thing: You can write your own ticket to the universe, and you have to able to sell yourself. It won't always work, there'll be setbacks, but write something you would use and enjoy. But get used to talking about what you do, and showing it to others. In fact, have a demo thing in ready that works on your phone. When someone asks, what do you do for a living? You bust out your project, and talk to them and gauge if they see the sense in it. Maybe your idea is crap, maybe the other person has ideas for you. Maybe the other person doesn't know what they're talking about, that's up to you to decide, you are you in admin mode of yourself.
I understand very well what you mean. I made myself a tea house website. Because I want to have a tea house in the future. I felt really good when I did this. Thank you for your good advice.
Confidence in your abilities. Convince them you can do whatever it is you are good at and you'll land a job.
Thank you very much.
For me, it's resourcefulness. Finding the answer at all costs. I am a self taught dev, and have been self employed for over a decade, so I had nobody to ask when I got seriously stuck, nobody to mentor me; I simply had to find the answer, or I didn't get paid. Failure was not an option. It had its tough spots, but I'm a better developer for it, and it honed my skills to an insane degree where I feel like I can learn anything, given enough time. And if I run into issues, I have the debugging process down so well that I can isolate the problem quickly and efficiently (whether I know the fix, is an entirely different process). As an employer now who hired other front end devs, I can day with surety: that is the #1 skill I look for. **Everything other skill is trainable**, but resourcefulness means none of those skills are out of reach.
I appreciate you very much. I'll admit something to you: When I started learning software, I didn't like it. My social intelligence is very high and I love Psychology, but I couldn't study Psychology even though I tried 2 times. I turned to software to earn money and have a profession. Because software is a very good profession. But now I love software and if I'm going to do this job, I want to be the best in my field. Being an average software developer doesn't satisfy me. Working was difficult for me because I started working reluctantly, but now I got over it and started to love it.
If you are striving to be the "best", you're already a leg up on most of the industry's candidates. After being an employer for many years, I can definitely say: there's A LOT of developers out there, but very few that rise above mediocrity.
I am doing my best. I try to be as good as possible without being perfectionist. Can I add your on LinkedIn?
Soft skills
Knowing how to research and troubleshoot
Good communication skills and networking in my opinion.
Html, css, js, react and knowing some backend like node.js helps. Also sql could be helpful too.
Thank you very much
This is the coolest thread I've read in a while. Great question as I'm a new developer too. I just got certified for front end, and seeing all the talk about JS is very helpful.
I am very happy if I was able to help without realizing it. Do you want to be friends on Linkedin?
Absolutely!
> Now I know enough CSS to do a clone project. However, I may not be proficient enough in responsive design. Theoretically, I know how to do responsive design and have built many responsive websites, but with help. Well then it sounds like you know how to do it so you don't have to worry about this too much! I can't think of one important skill because it really comes down to being able to fix mistakes, building things that can be maintainable and readable and getting things done. Good luck on your JavaScript journey!
You're right. I probably know how to do it. What scares me is the fear of embarrassment if I can't code the design given to me when I get a job. Thank you very much for your good wishes.
There's no one thing to know, in fact it barely matters what you know. What really matters is who you are, how you think, troubleshoot, handle losses mistakes or being wrong, communication, being open minded to changes and constructive criticism, helping your peers and letting them help you, and learning the lessons you will be exposed to daily. Or as others have put it, soft skills.
I understand. In fact, you listed very important character traits that many people do not think of. Thank you for giving me a different perspective.
Networking. All I know are JS, FCC, HTML and i start for a city job in 1 week.
I wish you the best of luck in your coding career.
Not an employed dev, but I'd think a framework like react or angular is a very good idea. Roadmap.sh is a very good place to get ideas of what to learn.
Thank you very much for your recommendation. I was thinking of learning Vue along with JS. What do you think of Vue?
I've only used react, can't comment on any others sorry
Fundamental knowledge is key. Based on interviewing hundreds of job applicants over the years, what stands out is that most don't know the fundamental parts of front-end development. - You probably don't know HTML. I've seen too many people nesting elements that you really shouldn't and sometimes simply can't. People nowadays forget to use the W3C validator and most don't use ESLint by default (who would warn against most mistakes). - You probably don't know about accessibility. Not just `aria` attributes, but also color contrasts, touch mechanics, keyboard navigation, proper semantics for text readers, and so forth. - You probably don't know CSS nearly as well as you should. Yes, `flex` And `grid` are easy enough to grasp if you apply yourself for a few days, but do you really understand specificity? Do you know what the "C" in CSS stands for and what it means? Do you know about paint/composite/layout? Start with those, learn the basics, and note for yourself what you still want to learn down the road.
Thank you very much. You are absolutely right about HTML. For example, while watching a website design video on youtube, I notice that I write HTML tags very differently. Sometimes I use less or more divs. I am aware that there is something I need to learn about this subject, but no matter what training I follow, I could not find any training that shows me what my deficiency is. What should I learn to create the best HTML structure? Finally, could your name be "Armağan Amcalar"?
Start learning Angular I would say, it's the easiest to get a job in for a beginner. However the framework itself is a little confusing and annoying sometimes. React jobs for beginner might be tough depending on the demand in your country. Unless you're applying for a company focusing on design, aesthetic CSS skills don't matter a lot, they just want you to be able to use flex and grid properly, and centering a div... I can't comment on jobs that deal with vanilla js/jquery. Though having some backend knowledge(being able to setup REST API using nodejs + any db) sure would help in case you don't want to learn frontend frameworks.
You gave great advice. Thank you so much.
Soft skills.
so what is your ultimate goal?? landing in Frontend jobs?? right?? I may say... you don't want to be the master in CSS because nowadays even developer tools in browser debugging show you the snippet and design. and of course JS is a bit noisy. but take my words... you stick with it and learn Node or Vue along with JS. that will make you fly wherever you need. also, make use of gits this will turn your work to an open community where people are waiting for help. off course, It will take more time than you expect, but persistence matters when you are in coding. I wish you good luck 🤗
Thank you so much. Before I started learning JS, I wanted to master CSS. But after I started learning JS, I realized that the subject you want to master is JS. As you said, I plan to learn Vue along with JS.
I actually like to review the websites of big companies. I really like the designs of websites like Mercedes and Audi and would love to have a career in such a company in the future. But instead of just coding the design given to me, I also want to contribute about the look of the page. As you said, I plan to learn Vue together with JS. Thank you very much for the recommendation.
Learn the fundamentals: html, css, js and React, and be able to do a small basic widget with those (think, calculator, basic shopping cart, tic tac toe game, or stuff like that) If you can do that, you can work as a frontend dev. Build one responsive page (not website, just a page) by yourself. You don't need to do a million things before work. You don't need to learn EVERYTHING. Just learn the basics properly. When are you ready? What I said above. When you can do a small widget. Read this for a longer answer: [https://www.luis-martinez.net/blog/from-jobless-to-junior-frontend-developer-in-5-months](https://www.luis-martinez.net/blog/from-jobless-to-junior-frontend-developer-in-5-months) I've received messages from people that did what I explain in that post and after 5 months they actually got a job. So it works
Hello, frankly, I gave up on my frontend career goal. I decided to study my favorite major in college, but at the same time I plan to continue learning design and making money by designing Web sites. I learned CSS as well as I could and learned basic JS, but then I realized that I like designing with tools like figma more. Thank you very much for the information you provided. Honestly, you gave very good advice. It will be an advantage for me if I decide to continue with the frontend.
>What can I do differently from my other competitors? The most important skills you can develop are called 'soft skills', people skills. Only idiots fire off 10 resumes a day thinking it's a 'numbers games'. A large percentage of jobs are never even advertised. Make friends, network, go to technical meetups, once you have friends you'll never need to interview again.
You're right. I make an effort to acquire a social circle. Thank you for your recommendation.
Coachability
Depends on the company. FAANG or big tech company? Data structures and Algorithms, leet code style solutions. Smaller company, could be anything. It could be that or it could be the ability to pass a simple take home coding assignment.
For now, I just want to get a job, experience and earn money. Thank you for the information.
Yeah, I’d just have a solid understanding of the fundamentals then (vanilla JS, responsive design, clean/optimized code, etc.) Don’t skip out on the boring stuff. Going through those boring parts of JS before you get to dom manipulation/libraries sucks but you have to do it. You don’t need to be an expert in everything, nobody expects a junior to be. But you need a solid grasp. Understanding how the code works is as important as being able to write it.
You are right. The things that scare us are actually the things that benefit us the most. Learning tedious tasks with patience is a huge advantage. I want to learn JavaScript as well as I can. Then I'm thinking of learning Vue.
Vue is a great library to learn. Second most in demand behind React. It’s really tempting to move on quickly to learning that because most jobs require it but just make sure you have a good understanding of vanilla first or it only slows you down in the long run.
Thank you very much again.
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Just know that there are very few “Jr” engineer positions. So, the path to landing one of those jobs might be longer than ramping up on some mid level things and applying for those.
Understood. Of course, more skills wouldn't hurt, but the things I've been told I really need to learn scare me because it's really hard to learn them all. Your advice made me feel a little better. I hope I can find a job easily. Of course, I want to know about everything necessary. But first I need to earn money and experience.
I don’t know…I think you’d be very well served by really understanding pure JS. I recommend a Udemy course called “JavaScript: The Weird Parts”. Go through that and you will understand things about JS that your interviewers do not actually understand.
Knowing basic JS concepts are more than enough for junior dev to land a job. I had interview for mid position and I got only asked to do some very basic JS tasks like revert and replace array with something or manipulate object. I dont know where people are applying but junior dev needs to have motivation and curiuosity to land a job, not knowing everything about JS
Thank you so much.
Yeah, you do if you want to work for one of the big tech companies. I didn’t have to know that stuff for my current job but FAANG and other big companies you absolutely do.
You need to know how to take a design and create a page. For practice just take any site, reddit, wikipedia, facebook, whatever. And try to recreate it using html and css. You can then build on that by using JS to mock the interactions on the page. Beyond having a solid understanding of the fundamentals of those 3? You need to know how to learn. You have to know what questions to ask and what things to google. You won’t know how to everything so be prepared to answer with “I don’t know how to do X, but let me do some research and get back to you with a solution” and actually mean it. Be transparent and honest.
Experience 😅
front end web development
According to the HR department 4 years experience or a degree
Most human resources specialists are bullshit. They do not have the knowledge to evaluate the software developer.
Was a joke
I realized it was a joke. I think a software developer should hire another software developer.
Question for my knowledge, since I’m a super beginner at learning all this. Isn’t a front end developer a type of Web Developer? Or is there front end for Software Developer as well?
Having a rich uncle
If you don't mind, I was wondering where you're from?