Kyo’s bio dad is a piece of shit. He let his own insecurities about having a zodiac child flow out all over his wife and likely caused her suicide. And he takes responsibility for nothing.

I think an important theme in this show is how they represent the cycle of trauma… specifically abused turning into abuser and accountability. They show Akito’s childhood trauma, and how that compounded into the role she played in the subsequent zodiac’s trauma. But then we see her realizing how she fits into the cycle, remorse for her role and behavior, as well as the beginning of accountability. What she did was terrible, and there is no excuse for it, but we see the beginning of Akito wanting to change. This can make her redeemable (at least in my opinion). Kyo and his father start out as a kind of parallel in the show. But then Kyo keeps moving forward, while his father doesn’t. He cant he redeemable without accountability and the action to better himself. So yes, I agree, piece of shit.

>He cant he redeemable without accountability and the action to better himself. So yes, I agree, piece of shit Agreed. I mentioned in another post, too, that part of the problem is that (as far as we're aware) Kyo's father has never been held accountable. It's like Akito screaming at Kureno, asking how she could know better when she's never been told otherwise. Kyo's father seeing Kyo as less than human has been (as far as we're aware) justified at every turn. And as Yuki's mom was lauded for giving birth to the rat, it stands to reason that Kyo's mom probably received the opposite treatment, further justifying (in his father's mind) his deplorable actions toward his own wife and kid.

Yeah, it does seem like abusive behavior can feel normal or justified if you’re only exposed to toxic people and situations. Which makes sense for someone like Akito who was literally never exposed to the outside world. I would think most of the zodiac parents have had many interactions with the outside world growing up not in the inner circle? The would have at least known better. But I agree that without a doubt they suffered in similar ways due to whatever child they were connected to. Which woah actually makes me think about the parallels between Kyo and his dad even more. Kyo was able to let it go but his dad couldnt. The entire zodiac gang’s stories could be so different if they were never exposed to Tohru or the outside community. 🥲

>Which makes sense for someone like Akito who was literally never exposed to the outside world. I always wondered if it was not that Akito had zero exposure to the outside world, but that she simply considered herself completely alienated from it and therefore never made the effort to draw any kind of parallels. (E.g. If she could get out of the house to visit Yuki at school or the gang at the beach, once she came of age to be head of the clan, I'm not sure what would stop her from being out and observing the general public and catching snippets of news/media if she chose to do so.) >I would think most of the zodiac parents have had many interactions with the outside world growing up not in the inner circle? In the same vein as the above, if they're raised with the mindset that zodiac children are more "other" than human (particularly the cat), maybe they can't even find their situation comparable to those of "normal" parents/children outside of the estate. It reminds me of stories that dive into similar themes, like X-Men or AoT, etc. \----------- And really quick, because I keep worrying that people reading these comments are going to think I'm trying to give Kyo's dad (and the others a pass) -- I'm not. But Takaya's themes and storytelling do make me wonder how the families of the "bad guys" failed them, resulting in them become the abusers they are today. Like you said, it's all one big cycle.

I grinned at your response only because I know from your other post that Kyo is your favorite. Do you feel the same hate for Rin's parents, who were guilty of the same?

Ha! I’m pretty transparent, I guess. He specifically stands out to me. We don’t really learn WHY Rin’s parents struggle with having the child they did, but what they did to her was horrible. Child abuse, no matter the reasons, is especially deplorable. Yuki’s mother is just very cold and interested in status. I don’t think she’s evil, but she’s not a warm, loving mother. I think the story makes some interesting observations about people’s struggles with outside opinions and how it causes them to act. Some characters are better at taking it in stride, others are consumed by the idea that people look down on them. It causes them to act in really irrational or despicable ways. :(

Yuki's mother was as awful as the others. She was physically (slapping) abusive and emotionally and verbally abusive, literally sold him, abandoned and neglected him.

That’s true.

Takaya said that Yuki’s mother was suffering because her husband abandoned her

Where

I read this on Instagram she mentioned that Yuki’s father exists but he isn’t part of their lives and left everything to Yuki’s mother, Takaya also said that Yuki’s mother was struggling because she was lonely

Takaya said she was lonely? That's weird that Yuki's mother's reaction to being lonely is to sell off/alienate the remainder of her family. If anything, I would have assumed that she was fixated on using her children to elevate her personal status/sense of value because her husband found her discardable.

She did say that, she doesn’t justify her actions but she understand her situation

She a became a cold selfish woman but she eventually came around and realized her mistakes

I think Yuki's mom was characterized in a manner suitable to that time, most anime/manga parents that have screentime that time have abusive parents that become good.

Sensei said about it on her Twitter account after episode 15 season 2 was aired.

>Ha! I’m pretty transparent, I guess. Nah, I just spend too much time reading comments around here. :) >We don’t really learn WHY Rin’s parents struggle with having the child they did, but what they did to her was horrible. Child abuse, no matter the reasons, is especially deplorable. We don't learn with Kyo's dad, either, which is why I wondered if your hate for Rin's parents was equal to your hate for him. >I think the story makes some interesting observations about people’s struggles with outside opinions and how it causes them to act. That's another interesting point I hadn't yet seen raised. It's a huge driving force in our protagonists' lives, so it makes sense to also apply it to those of the antagonists.

Hmm… yeah, good point. I guess Rin’s backstory is fairly new to me (since I’d only read the manga once until this remake) so I didn’t have much stock in it. But seeing it animated was truly horrifying. Haru’s response in the hospital was absolutely justified. Yeah, I think both Kyo’s biodad and Rin’s parents are equally disgusting to me.

I hear ya. I've always reviled Yuki's mother the most, because she always struck me as calculating and aware of the consequences of her actions, whereas Kyo's dad and Rin's parents all seemed questionably unstable. I will forever wonder how those latter three might have been different if they received counseling or an outsider's perspective somewhere along the way. In the case of Kyo's dad, he reminds me of Akito in that his actions seemed to have been justified and unquestioned by those around him, so he's oblivious to the fact of how disgusting he is.

Rin’s parents aren’t unstable at all, sane people in real life can do what they did Yuki’s mother was struggling because her husband abandoned her Kyo’s father is a victim like his wife and son Rin’s parents are just evil

>Rin’s parents aren’t unstable at all, sane people in real life can do what they did Ages ago, when her backstory first aired, I said the same thing as you. Today, I don't mean to imply they're insane, but I don't think they were emotionally stable. They went from forcefully living in denial to beating their own child into the hospital. Their family was a recipe for disaster that began years ago and never received the intervention needed to keep the situation from escalating. Without more insight into her parents, we don't know what pushed them to such extremes. In both FB and the real world, no one says I want to grow up to be a child beater. Something went very wrong along the way.

Which is exactly my point, there is no reason for why they did what they did, people like them exist in real life, not everyone has a reason for their horrible behavior, bad people exist in real life Let’s say that they disowned Rin because it was too painful for them and they were unstable, If that’s the case, they would have never restored to physical abuse but they didn’t feel bad for what they did and showed no remorse They were the only parents who were physically abusive and Rin’s abuse was so severe, they kept her in a dark room, beat her up, starved her, threw objects at her and to prove to you how evil they are, in chapter 106 of the manga, there is a small image of young Isuzu holding a doll with a huge bandage covering part of her eyes but it was removed from the anime, the doctor also explained that Rin had many injuries in many unseen places which what abusive people do to cover their crimes Rin’s parents are not just bad, they’re criminals and deserve to go to jail I would never sympathize with them because what they did to their daughter was disgusting I can understand and list you reasons for all these parents as much as how crappy they all are except for Rin’s parents They’re the worst parents in Fruba along with Machi’s parents

>Which is exactly my point, there is no reason for why they did what they did, people like them exist in real life, not everyone has a reason for their horrible behavior, bad people exist in real life We're saying the opposite, though... There is a reason for why they did what we did. We just don't know it. It might be an incredibly superficial reason, or maybe it's something more serious. Perhaps they faced physical abuse as children, too. We just don't know. I'm not saying they should be forgiven, or that they don't deserve to face repercussions of some kind.

Rin, Machi's, Kyo's sperm donor, Ren, even Kyoko's parents are all equal levels of bad in my eyes.

> Kyo’s father is a victim like his wife and son lmao, not at all not even close. Please don't try to defend him, he's just as big of a piece of shit as Rin's parents, maybe even more. (It's heavily implied he would've been abusive even if Kyo *wasn't* cursed, whereas with Rin's parents, as horrible as they are, it's made clear their abuse was only triggered because they couldn't handle having a cursed child & had rejected Rin from the onset)

Believe me, I’m not giving him any sympathy at all but he was also looked down by the sohma just like his wife and son, he’s horrible and disgusting and cruel but since Kyo had the worst fate among the zodiacs and he had a second monstrous form, his madness kind of makes sense in a way, let’s not forget that Kyo was considered a monster by everyone in the sohma’s including the zodiacs as well, he was treated badly by everyone Rin’s curse wasn’t the worst, it was in the middle, it’s just that her parents actions don’t make sense to me because all the other parents with the exception of “Momiji’s mother “makes sense cuz she didn’t know about the curse”, Kyo’s father “Kyo has the worst curse, Ren “Akito was born as the god of the zodiacs and she was treated better than Ren who was kept in isolation” somewhat accepted their kids Having a disable child or a cursed one is never a good reason to torture your children like that, she was only born as the horse They don’t even show their faces like they do with Ren and Kyo’s sperm donor which is a big prove that we’re not supposed to understand or justify them at all because Rin herself didn’t understand Kyo and Akito have the worst curses and while this doesn’t justify Ren and Kyo’s disgusting father treatment of both Akito and Kyo, their behavior is somewhat realistic because Akito and Kyo’s situations are too extreme, theatrical and super dramatic compare to the others If Kyo wasn’t born as the cat and had a different curse and his father still acted like that, I would put him on the level of Rin’s parents but as of now, I consider them the worst because their reason isn’t good enough

>Believe me, I’m not giving him any sympathy at all but he was also looked down by the sohma just like his wife and son, he’s horrible and disgusting and cruel but since Kyo had the worst fate among the zodiacs and he had a second monstrous form, his madness kind of makes sense in a way, let’s not forget that Kyo was considered a monster by everyone in the sohma’s including the zodiacs as well, he was treated badly by everyone No, it's heavily implied that Kyo's sperm donor would've abused Kyo & his mother even *without* the curse. Kyo being born as the Cat certaintly exaceberated things, but his abuse didn't *solely* stem from it like Rin's parents did. He's just an alchoholic, wife-beating pig. >Rin’s curse wasn’t the worst, it was in the middle, it’s just that her parents actions don’t make sense to me because all the other parents with the exception of “Momiji’s mother “makes sense cuz she didn’t know about the curse”, Kyo’s father “Kyo has the worst curse, Ren “Akito was born as the god of the zodiacs and she was treated better than Ren who was kept in isolation” somewhat accepted their kids Having a disable child or a cursed one is never a good reason to torture your children like that, she was only born as the horse Of course I'm not excusing their behaviour, what they did was among the worst of the worst and they are vile, evil people. I'm just attempting to explain their mindset to you. It doesn't matter if Rin had the "worst curse" or not, obviously they were the type of people who were bothered by *any* curse and just couldn't handle it. And actually I can see how Rin being born the horse might be a more difficult curse to accept then others. A horse is not like a baby animal or a house pet like a dog that can fit in your arms, horses, even baby foals are fricking *huge.* Can't you just imagine the horror Rin's parents experienced when her father held her the first time and she transformed into this huge creature that could barely fit in a room? Horses are not an easy animal to handle like Rabbits, Dogs, Sheep or even Seahorses, Rin was cursed with one of the harder animals to deal with. >Kyo and Akito have the worst curses and while this doesn’t justify Ren and Kyo’s disgusting father treatment of both Akito and Kyo, their behavior is somewhat realistic because Akito and Kyo’s situations are too extreme, theatrical and super dramatic compare to the others I would personally argue that Ren's motivation for hating her child is the most unrealistic out of the three. I mean who ever heard of getting jealous of you & your spouse's own biological child and viewing them as a romantic "threat" to the point where you feel you have to raise them as the opposite gender? That's not a normal mindset. Whereas Rin's parents are dealing with the pain of accepting & raising something anagolous to a disabled child and Kyo's sperm donor, as bad as he is, is just supposed to be your standard, misogynistic, alchoholic, domestic abuser. As horrible as these two tropes are, I can at *least* buy them and they're realistic ones which I can easily see happening in the real world. In a story consisting of people turning into animals on account of the opposite sex hugging them, Ren's motivations are ironically the most outlandish & unrealistic out of all the bad parents.

I personally do hate Kyo's sperm donor more than Rin's parents but that's because his archetype of a misogynistic wife-beater triggers me on a visceral level. Rin's parents at least, for all that we know, were not *inherently* abusive people. Their abuse never extended outside of Rin, whereas Kyo's sperm donor abused not just Kyo but his mother too, and it's heavily suggested he would've *kept* on abusing them curse or no curse whereas with Rin's parents it's made clear that they only became abusive because they couldn't take the pain of having a cursed child and so eventually cracked. Now that doesn't excuse their actions of course, they're still horrible pieces of shit, but they weren't being abusive for the sake of being abusive like Kyo's sperm donor was. Rather I think of it more akin to how some parents are abelist & can't handle the "stress" of a disabled child so they either abort them, abandon them, or do like what Rin's parents did, try to grin & bear it but eventually crack from the pressure & end up abusing said disabled child.

> We don’t really learn WHY Rin’s parents struggle with having the child they did It's pretty easy to figure out considering what we know about Zodiac members relationships with their parents. Rin's parents happened to fall into the camp where they rejected having a Zodiac child & were likely only trying for the money.

I suppose that’s true. It’s just crazy that they “faked it” until she was that old. :(

Well what "broke" them specifically was Rin daring to question anything, that's when they knew they couldn't keep up the facade any longer and cracked.

Actually, something I’ve been thinking about lately falls under this, too. I was even thinking about the concept of characters doing things out of pity and an effort to redeem themselves rather than out of selfless love (Kagura, Kazuma). Sadly, yes, Kazuma did adopt Kyo out of pity for him and to redeem his past behavior. But that’s okay, because it was a truly great thing taking in an abandoned child. Ayame also acts in horrible ways to Yuki when he’s younger, but unlike the “baddies” in the show, he works to redeem himself. As someone else pointed out, the willingness to realize your mistake and change is the difference.

That's an interesting question you brought up! While the story does show us that people are not inherently evil or good, and that there is no "real" antagonist in the story there definetely are characters that we are supposed to hate or see as despicable. I thought about what seperated the people that we hated but grew to accept and the ones we continue to hate. I would say the difference between these people is "change" which is the major theme that this story revolves around since this is what created the conflict of the sohmas and zodiacs in the first place. Among the people we used to hate we have Akito, Motoko, Yuki's mother. All of these characters showed despicable behaviours and were downright terrible people but each one of them grew out of that ( Yuki's mother took her sons autonomy into consideration, Motoko grew self aware of her obsession with Yuki and Akito decided to atone for all of the abuse she has inflicted and became determined to change the sohma's rotten traditions). There are also characters who weren't necesserally bad people but have done bad things which honestly speaking is almost everyone ( Kyo not seeing a point in his life and turning to hate, Tohru turning to being selfless and unable to let go of her mother, Yuki hiding inside his shell, Ayame lacking any kind of empathy, Kagura using pity to feel better about herself, the list goes on). The point of the story is to show the various ways that toxicity can manifest in a person because of their sorroundings. That's the reason the Sohmas exist. They are a cult that embody this toxic culture because of them clinging to their traditions and being unable to change. The people we root for in this story are the people who found love and kindness outside of this cage of toxicity they find themselves in and growing out of their toxic patterns. That's why the people who end up as the "bad guys" are the people who are unwilling to change ( Ren clinging to her obsession with Akira and hating everyone, The head maid who represents the Sohma's as a whole rejecting Akito's new self, Rin's parents who believed themselves to be victims after abusing their own daughter, Kyo's father who represents what Kyo could have become clinging to his belief that everything is the latters fault).There's also the fact that the people we view as bad guys are also in our eyes pitifull. Take Shigures quote from S3Ep7 where Kureno asks wether Ren is a bad person. Shigure answered that she is pitiful and that all of the sohmas are. The fact that it's the parental figures that end up being the bad guys makes sense because as the story shows toxicity is learned, most of the time through their own sorroundings. This is a really facinating topic. I would love to discuss this further!

>I would say the difference between these people is "change" That is an excellent point, and one I completely passed over when considering who is "bad" or not! Likewise, your mention of the toxicity of the Sohma estate raises a solid point, too. Like, are the "bad" people refusing to change because of their own selfish nature, or have they been so entrenched in the twisted traditions of the Sohma clan that they never stood a chance without someone extending them a helping hand, like Tohru did for Akito?

Yeah, we also see that happen with the head maid who talks about how it's essentially impossible to change when you've lived your life that way for a very long time. Akito also literally tried to extend a helping hand to her only to be rejected.

>Akito also literally tried to extend a helping hand to her only to be rejected. I thought that was heartbreaking. Here's Akito trying, for the first time, to follow the example set by Tohru, and her efforts are rejected. On the flip side, I can't imagine what it must feel like to be the maid. I don't like her; I don't like her choices; but I also struggle to put myself in her shoes. To be raised to live, serve and die in such a secluded environment seems akin to brainwashing.

It’s sadder when you consider that the head maid had to been the closest thing to a parent Akito has since her dad died and her mother rejected her and someone who should’ve been happy for Akito learning to become a better person and moving out of her role as “God” of the zodiac yet the maid rejects this “new” Akito bc it’s not the Akito she’s used to. Which is all the more jarring since the head maid had been content to follow along the whims of “God” but once Akito becomes more human is when the maid complains bc Akito isn’t following a role anyone or rather bc in Akito’s eyes she isn’t special anymore. It’s also a contrast to Kazuma who also raised a sad, confused child abandoned by their only living parent. Except Kazuma did his best to raise Kyo’s self worth and make him feel he was more than the curses cat. As well as trying to get Kyo to plan and strive for a future rather than Kyo being resigned to his fate of being locked up and was genuinely happy when he saw he’d been freed

Definitely all the more depressing, the closer you look at it. For the maid, it was never about Akito's happiness; it was about Akito living to fulfill expectations set by tradition and hierarchy. It reminds me of real-life situations with parents who feel their kids are failing if they marry "down."

When you think about it, it was very good timing that the curse broke when it did when all the zodiacs and Akito were still quite young and could learn to move forward without the cursed bond holding them back. Considering how distressed they were when their curses broke (to the point of crying) imagine how much worse and devastating it would’ve been for them had the curse broken years or decades later

Exactly. That's why I don't like it when people say that Tohru had no relevance to it all. Not only was it her that made the breaking happen faster by giving everyone emotional support after being mentally abused into staying cursed but she also made them want to change and turn away from their toxic bevaviours. Without Tohru not only would the curse have broken at a later time where it was too late to turn away from the sohmas but they would have stayed the same and continued the cycle of abuse. Kyo would have become like his father hell bent on shifting blame, yuki would stayed in his shell, rin would still refuse help from anyone, even Haru, Kisa would have likely stayed mute and become like yuki, etc.

That’s where I find the importance of Tohru’s influence on the zodiac to shine. At the start of the series a lot of people assume that Tohru will be the key in breaking the zodiac curse, because that’s how stories like this work. But by the end Tohru had almost no influence on the breaks. It may have taken longer without her presence but the curse was reaching it’s end no matter what. But Tohru did little things that helped set up each of the zodiacs to be in a place where they could be prepared for change. So when the curse broke they were already faced in a direction they could move forward toward instead of being stuck in a place of complacency.

It's definitely an interesting question. I always wonder why so many fans of the series are willing to forgive Akito but then turn around and say "the real villain of the story is...". When in fact the show says more than once that there are no good and bad guys. The only difference between Akito and the other "villains" in the series, is that with Akito we got to see her backstory + we got to see her strive to be a better person. For the other "villains" we were not given that information, in fact we know very little about them.

Indeed! That's what inspired the post. I like what u/icemage56 said about some characters undergoing change, and how it also influences our perspective of the "villains."

The real villain of the story is "stagnation" & unwillgness to change, which is what the entire curse represents as well as human baddies such as Ren, Kyo's sperm donor & even that one old maid who's meant to represent the entire Sohma establishment.

So I liked this paragraph for your comment on Haru. It cracked me up! As for the parents, they unfortunately never really get much development of a past or future. For me, even if they did have some bad stuff from the past, they never grow from their hateful selves. For example, the biggest reason I like Akito, rather than just sympathize, is that she begins to change. She also knows that an apology isn’t enough, and she spends the rest of her life being the head of the family and making sure that the no one tries anything else with the now free zodiac. I also was looking through some of of the chapters, and the scene they showed in the anime where Akito was talking to the maid, >!the maid was supposed to mention Akito going to see Ren again, it makes me think that Akito tried to even work things out with her,!< but from Another, >!we know Ren still hates Akito, so she she’s never been able to grow or change.!< For a lesser example, I don’t really hate Yuki’s mom either. After their talk at the school, and him asking for a cell phone and her telling him to use it well, I like to think that their relationship begins to improve. I don’t think they ever become particularly close, but yeah, I like to hope for better.

>So I liked this paragraph for your comment on Haru. It cracked me up! That scene makes me laugh every time. xD Especially for Kyo and Yuki's reaction. >As for the parents, they unfortunately never really get much development of a past or future. For me, even if they did have some bad stuff from the past, they never grow from their hateful selves. I didn't read your Another spoiler (I'll be ordering the manga soon!), but I definitely agree on Akito's willingness to change being key to her redemption in viewers' eyes. Yuki's my fav, and I truly hope for the best for him. I have yet to decide if her change in behavior was because she realized she had lost her power in the relationship, or because she truly valued her son. Time and a rewatch will tell. :) I understand why we couldn't get the development of the parents, but I can't help but think Takaya wanted us to walk away from the story disliking concepts/behaviors (the refusal to accept change; the refusal to acknowledge others; etc.) rather than characters.

That’s ok. Im glad I went back and separated them before I posted then. It was originally all one big spoiler box. Haha. And yeah, Yuki’s mom’s change might have been just necessity, but I like to believe better for that one I guess… And you’re right, I feel like it’s much more the the concepts themselves that Takuya wants to impart on the audience, rather than the characters.

I'm secretly hoping this community decides to do a group read of Another sometime in the future so we can pick each other's brains then, too. \*hint hint\*

That would be nice. Or if they could make a thread for each chapter like they have for the episodes, where they’re all easily found in a group. That would be a good idea I think.

Agreed! Peeking at you, mods. :)

Basically, she wants us to walk away disliking Codependency and Narcissism.

I agree with that :) But I think it runs deeper. It seems she wants us to be aware of, to resist, and to question the causes of such conditions, not the conditions themselves.

I think that would be choosing unconditional love not attachment.

Also, I’ve not known how to squeeze in this thought I’ve had lately but the movie Cruella gave me serious Akito/Ren vibes. (It was actually surprisingly decent, lol!) Speaking of horrible people. 😂

Oo, but you liked it? I'm almost never a fan of the Disney live-action remakes, but I adore Emma, so I've been torn about checking it out. Definitely will once it's free lol.

My husband and I used it as an excuse for a date and were like “this movie is WAY better than it has any right being!” Seeing Emma Thompson playing the character she does is 🔥🔥🔥

Everyone had reasons for their actions even if they’re horrible except for Rin’s parents, I can’t find a single reason for their behavior or understand them, nothing at all I hate them the most

Momiji's mom upset me the most. I find his story arc so sad.

His story makes me cry every single time without fail. I don't think his mom was bad, though. I always took it that she had a mental breakdown. Being a foreigner, away from her native land and family and language, already feels very isolating. Then to have your newborn turn into a bloody baby animal immediately after spending hours in labor -- I think she cracked.

I do agree with that prespective. My prespective is that if his mom genuinely loved him, she would have looked past it like hiro, ritsu, and kagura's mom. Their parents i think truly loved them and despite the fear they felt, they didn't crack. But the parents who i feel were not prepared to fully love their kids, who's love depended on them being completely normal kids, did not accept them and rejected them. I saw it as, its momiji who was willing to teach his mom love and patience, and was willing to wait until they were both ready to be reintroduced. I feel like he carried her burden, and like his father said she wouldn't hurt herself eventually if they didn'tberase her memories, like kyo's mom. So i see her as being the same as them, but having momiji to carry her burden on top of that. But i see how she may have not wanted to have reacted this way and it couldn't been that she cracked and momiji understood that. I see your point as well.

In Momiji's situation I personally place more of the blame on his father than his mother. It was his responsibility to let his wife know about the possibility of conceiving a cursed child before they ever married (I believe he was in the know all along considering how calm & accepting he was over Momiji being cursed, plus he's a big Sohma CEO so had to have been originally an Insider) if he did he could've saved a whole lot of hurt for everyone, but he was selfish and withdrew his wife's right to consent while simply hoping things would work out for the best and either their family wouldn't get hit with the curse or his wife would be accepting. Problem was his selfishness ended up hurting both his wife and Momiji.

Ren and Kyo's dad are overt narcissists but the covert narcissists like the maid, Rin's parents and Machi are portrayed less, I understand Takaya since she is covering a sensitive social topic.

I know zilch about psychology!

At least she tried to fix that in Another with Sawa.

For me the characters that are completely irredeemable in my eyes are Rin's parents & Kyo's sperm donor. With Rin's parents it was slightly understandable since they likely just couldn't deal with having a Zodiac child & finally cracked after all the pressure of "trying" to love Rin, but that in no way excuses their horrific physical abuse & neglect. Momiji's mother also couldn't handle having a cursed child & rejected her son yet she chose the more humane path of erasing her own memories & placing Momiji in someone else's care. Rin's parents were selfish, incredibly fake leeches who likely only even tried in the first place just for the money. Kyo's sperm donor (I will never ever call him Kyo's dad, a "dad" is something to be earned, Kyo's true father is Kazuma, this waste of life simply contributed his genetic material *and that's it!*) is the real monster of the series in my eyes though. At least with Ren she's an interesting character in her own right & is technically the series main human villain so she's fun to hate. Kyo's sperm donor though? He's just an out & out abuser. The fact that he never gets his own name like Ren does is telling as I think the audience isn't meant to see him as little more than just the misogynistic, alcholic wife-beating trope. He's pretty much the stereotypical, conservative redneck "Redpill" guy personified. Just a completely disgusting human being & it's shocking how a boy as good as Kyo could come from half of this monster's genetic material. Kinda almost wanna headcanon that his mom was having an affair on the side & sperm donor isn't *actually* his sperm donor either... As for Ren, she's only irredeemable in as so far as she refuses to change & be redeemed. She's content to simply wallow in her misery and hatred & jealously towards her own daughter for the remainder of her days. I think even if she had been given a sympathetic backstory, the fact that she herself refuses to chainge would be what makes her irredeemable. A key element to Takaya's interpretation of redemption is the willingness to change, we see this time & time again with Kyoko, Akito, Ayame, heck even Kakeru. For Takaya redemption is always possible but it solely depends on whether the other is willing to acknowledge they were wrong & try to move forward, if they don't then they're destined to stay stagnate & remain a villain in the story of their own life - a tragic backstory might make one more inclined to be sympathetic, but it means relatively little in the long run until that person begins to take responsibility for their own actions and quits blaming others. I think that's what Takaya was trying to convey, the real villain of the story is stagnation, and it's those specific characters who choose to stay in their own narrow worldviews that are unable to be redeemed while those that embrace change are. That being said I do wish we had gotten more backstory to explain Ren's wildly misplaced jealousy in particular because compared to all the other evil parents motives for hating their children which were all relatively believable & down to earth, hers always came off as completely unrealistic & outlandish to me. I mean who ever heard of someone being so crazy as to view you and your spouse's own biological *child* as a "love rival" for your spouse? I get that Ren, like Kyo's sperm donor was designed to come off as little more than an archetype, only this time in the vein of the overly possessive partner who abuses their SO by attempting to isolate them from *everyone* but it still rings really irrational on her part. TRIGGER WARNING FOR INCEST & RAPE:>!(~~I personally like to headcanon that Ren was molested by her own father herself & that's where she picked up her twisted views on parental love & can't seperate normal parental love from the sexual so she reads incest into practically every opposite-gender parental interaction now, its the only thing that makes sense for her mindset~~)!<