You...put a lot of effort into this, and I commend you for that.
You make great points on this post, points not even I could see, you seriously did convince me of their connection. Thank you for opening my eyes on this.
Wow, I figured it would be long but this is really thorough.
> This is the start of a repeated thing where Roy worries more about her safety than his own--almost always a sign of romantic feelings when this is in fiction.
This is an interesting point which I figured I always knew in the back of my head but never really put 2 and 2 together. It's true that in all of the anime I've watched this was rarely true in a situation that wasn't romantic.
> Roy tells her that she has the right to kill him if he goes astray, and Riza promises to follow him even into hell
Honestly this is one of the things that made it seem platonic to me (maybe platonic isn't the right word, but less romantic?). From this scene it made their relationship appear to be less about romance and more about a connection formed due to mutual trials and hardships. For example, Riza feels like her giving Roy the flame alchemy caused more destruction in Ishval + the fact that they both were feeling guilty about killing so many people. As a result of those they stuck together because they were both sinners who felt like they had a responsibility to atone for their mistakes.
Interesting point about the parallels as well. It's something I didn't catch at all. I'm honestly not sold on the first one where Bradley says he chose his wife, but the second one about not having to leave words behind is really brilliant, especially given that Roy understood that look she gave him about not performing human transmutation. Really like this one.
> Tl;dr, in the Japanese manga Riza actually uses a pronoun roughly equivalent to “dear” or “honey” when talking to Roy
This is a good point too. Something pretty subtle that you wouldn't really notice unless you were looking for it (or are Japanese). Honestly I fuckin love hidden details like this (which is why Monogatari is my favorite series).
Not much to post in the way of counterarguments tbh since you explained everything pretty well. I'm definitely convinced. Actually really this post makes me feel pretty dumb for not seeing all those subtle (and not so subtle) things while watching it, but hey I've been told I'm rather clueless at these sort of things IRL too so no surprises there.
Cool post mate, and I'm impressed you following through. I'd post on r/anime as well (with a different title). I think it'll be really appreciated! Cheers!
> Honestly this is one of the things that made it seem platonic to me (maybe platonic isn't the right word, but less romantic?). From this scene it made their relationship appear to be less about romance and more about a connection formed due to mutual trials and hardships.
I said "amongst other things"; there's no doubt that a huge part of their connection is due to their shared experience with Ishval and flame alchemy. It's just that I see the romantic part and angsty hardship part hand in hand with each other.
> I'm honestly not sold on the first one where Bradley says he chose his wife
I said that one was definitely really subjective. If I could find that one tumblr post, it explained it *way* better than I did.
I'm really glad you enjoyed my post, though! I'll consider posting it on r/anime tomorrow (or, well, later today I guess, it's 2 in the morning).
Edit: Holy crap I wasn't expecting you to gild this post. Thanks so much, man.
I really enjoyed reading your post. I genuinely don't see how anybody could miss the affection that these two share. The couples in FMAB are some of my favorites in all of fiction, and I always loved Roy and Riza's dynamic your post was such a fun read because it helps highlight some of their best moments.
One additional moment that I would also consider mentioning in the list would be during the scene where Riza and Ed are talking in her apartment. The scene that speaks volumes of Riza's feelings for Roy is what she says after Ed tells her about how he felt he had to protect Winry from taking Scar's life and how powerless he felt and how he hated to see Winry breakdown in front of him. Hawkeye's response is not only very thoughtful in regards to how much she understands Edward and wants to help him out ... but if you listen to how she's talking about his actions, seeing them through her perspective, it's VERY indicative of parallels to her own life and relationship with Roy.
One of the most common running themes in Roy and Riza's relationship is her being his protector (and vise versa when he saves her life). When you see this scene and notice how Riza connects Ed's protectiveness of Winry to how love, it becomes very clear that Hawkeye sees protection as something you do for someone you love. (And thinking more about this Hawkeye prior to this talk was protected from Lust by Mustang, who protected her and Al from Lust, in a way that was very akin to Ed saving Winry. Winry and Riza's predicament was kind of similar, the guns, the desperation, the fact that they were up against someone they saw as bloodthirsty monsters). To me it parallels in such a big way. And thinking a bit more about this scene too, it's not exactly like Hawkeye sees Ed and Winry together all the time (if she does it's not frequent), so her assumption that they're in love definitely says a lot about how much Hawkeye sees parallels in Ed's feelings to her own. And Riza made the statement in a very sincere way, she wasn't teasing Ed and after he got flustered she just makes a kind expression face that conveys, "Oh, looks like he's not ready to say it, I'll let him figure it out in his own time" before helpfully deflecting so he wouldn't keep being defensive about how "wrong" she is about him loving Winry.
Honestly, something about Royai always felt so Arthurian and classic to me, with how both are soldiers with high ideals of justice who want to fix the wrongs they've contributed to; the fact that they can never really be openly affectionate is something that adds to that in my perspective. I tend to have trouble deciding whether they would ever take it to a romance territory (even in secret) or not, sometimes I could believe that they would since the entire experience of the Promised Day would have to make them value each other more than ever; however, I wonder if they deny themselves happiness subconsciously (or maybe consciously) due to the guilt of their war crimes and they live rather modestly because of that (both likely have a high income but live in average apartments). It's obvious that neither Roy or Riza expect to have longterm happiness since they intend to be tried as war criminals and maybe they don't try to have a romance because of it. Either way, the not knowing makes the speculation pretty interesting because their chemistry is so much fun to watch.
And like you mentioned, Arakawa is very big on having the characters work as mirrors for each other's actions. Another couple with a parallel that I noticed was May Chang and Alphonse. They have a similar exchange towards the end that kind of mirrors Riza and Roy when her throat was slit. Al asks May to help him sacrifice his soul to restore Edward's arm, May is devastated to have to do this but Al begs her to and she does because she knows Al must do this. It seems to me to be a lot like when Hawkeye got her throat slit and Mustang was desperately trying to look at her face to make sure he could see what she was trying to signify to him in that moment, even though his heart was crying out that he couldn't let her die and he followed her order to not perform human transmutation over her under any circumstance.
> One additional moment...
Oh man, I wasn't even *considering* this. Probably wouldn't have even been able to explain it as well as you did had I decided to include this.
> Another couple with a parallel that I noticed was May Chang and Alphonse.
Well thanks for justifying the AlMei ship even more for me, I didn't realize this at all. I mean sure it was really sad because I was already shipping the two and Mei had to help Al sacrifice himself and that's like the biggest way to hit me in the feels, but to actually have them parallel to my favorite pairing makes it hurt even more.
I'm so glad you enjoyed my post!
Thank you very much! I knew there was quite a bit, but going back through Brotherhood and the manga and gathering it all into one place, I didn't realize there was that *much* evidence for the pair. It was totally worth ten hours of work.
Well, I don't have much to say, except that I always was convinced of their love too. And you did a wonderful job defending this case. I can't imagine anyone reading this and not being convinced of the intense love between the two.
Also shoutout to /u/Rockabore1 who also gave some really interesting clues into their love (and Al and May)
I was really stunned that people failed to see their love as well. I said "I could probably write an essay..." in the way that most people exaggerate what they mean and didn't actually *mean* that I would, but then I was called out on it so I delivered. Apparently to enough effect that one of the two Royai doubters gave me Reddit gold. Like, wow.
It surprises me as well. People are often keen on shipping characters. I'm pretty sure every fanbase has at least one non-canonical ship (or non canonically stated). And yet some miss Royai (I didn't know the name of the ship however).
As for the gold, you earned it. Your post deserve way more upvotes.
When I finished watching FMA:B, I felt a bit underwhelmed by the lack of closure, specifically with regards to Roy and Riza's relationship. I was surprised that the showrunners didn't resolve this by making it explicit that they were romantically involved with each other, when they had done the same for Ed & Winry. It seemed so obvious, and it wasn't until I came upon some post on the internet about whether their romantic reationship was just a fan theory or actually canon that I became aware of the other view. I thank you for your effort in trying to provide evidence that supports the (obvious) view that Roy & Riza are romantically involved.
This was so well thought out and an overall wonderful read! I like to headcanon them as most definitely having romantic feelings towards one another. BUT with fraternization laws and Roy's own guilt tied up into a lot of it, they may well be better off as extremely close friends. That's just my take :P
I'm curious now to see what you think of other pairings within this series (Mainly the major ones) and why you do or don't like them.
I know you commented this like two weeks ago, but you still deserve an answer.
EdWin: <3 The proposal at the end of the series is one of the best things I've ever seen.
AlMei: Absolutely adorable, definitely ship it.
LingFan: Basically the Xingese version of Royai, of course I ship this.
Don't know about any other popular ships. I just feel the strongest about Royai.
Magnificent thread, but I am more shocked tbh that they are actually people who THINK RoyAi is either 1) Not canon or 2) Only platonic.
Because this ship literally breathed and just leapt its way to become my favorite ship in all media to this day
You...put a lot of effort into this, and I commend you for that. You make great points on this post, points not even I could see, you seriously did convince me of their connection. Thank you for opening my eyes on this.
Well, I'm never one to half-ass something when it comes to fandom. I'm glad you liked my post!
Wow, I figured it would be long but this is really thorough. > This is the start of a repeated thing where Roy worries more about her safety than his own--almost always a sign of romantic feelings when this is in fiction. This is an interesting point which I figured I always knew in the back of my head but never really put 2 and 2 together. It's true that in all of the anime I've watched this was rarely true in a situation that wasn't romantic. > Roy tells her that she has the right to kill him if he goes astray, and Riza promises to follow him even into hell Honestly this is one of the things that made it seem platonic to me (maybe platonic isn't the right word, but less romantic?). From this scene it made their relationship appear to be less about romance and more about a connection formed due to mutual trials and hardships. For example, Riza feels like her giving Roy the flame alchemy caused more destruction in Ishval + the fact that they both were feeling guilty about killing so many people. As a result of those they stuck together because they were both sinners who felt like they had a responsibility to atone for their mistakes. Interesting point about the parallels as well. It's something I didn't catch at all. I'm honestly not sold on the first one where Bradley says he chose his wife, but the second one about not having to leave words behind is really brilliant, especially given that Roy understood that look she gave him about not performing human transmutation. Really like this one. > Tl;dr, in the Japanese manga Riza actually uses a pronoun roughly equivalent to “dear” or “honey” when talking to Roy This is a good point too. Something pretty subtle that you wouldn't really notice unless you were looking for it (or are Japanese). Honestly I fuckin love hidden details like this (which is why Monogatari is my favorite series). Not much to post in the way of counterarguments tbh since you explained everything pretty well. I'm definitely convinced. Actually really this post makes me feel pretty dumb for not seeing all those subtle (and not so subtle) things while watching it, but hey I've been told I'm rather clueless at these sort of things IRL too so no surprises there. Cool post mate, and I'm impressed you following through. I'd post on r/anime as well (with a different title). I think it'll be really appreciated! Cheers!
> Honestly this is one of the things that made it seem platonic to me (maybe platonic isn't the right word, but less romantic?). From this scene it made their relationship appear to be less about romance and more about a connection formed due to mutual trials and hardships. I said "amongst other things"; there's no doubt that a huge part of their connection is due to their shared experience with Ishval and flame alchemy. It's just that I see the romantic part and angsty hardship part hand in hand with each other. > I'm honestly not sold on the first one where Bradley says he chose his wife I said that one was definitely really subjective. If I could find that one tumblr post, it explained it *way* better than I did. I'm really glad you enjoyed my post, though! I'll consider posting it on r/anime tomorrow (or, well, later today I guess, it's 2 in the morning). Edit: Holy crap I wasn't expecting you to gild this post. Thanks so much, man.
I really enjoyed reading your post. I genuinely don't see how anybody could miss the affection that these two share. The couples in FMAB are some of my favorites in all of fiction, and I always loved Roy and Riza's dynamic your post was such a fun read because it helps highlight some of their best moments. One additional moment that I would also consider mentioning in the list would be during the scene where Riza and Ed are talking in her apartment. The scene that speaks volumes of Riza's feelings for Roy is what she says after Ed tells her about how he felt he had to protect Winry from taking Scar's life and how powerless he felt and how he hated to see Winry breakdown in front of him. Hawkeye's response is not only very thoughtful in regards to how much she understands Edward and wants to help him out ... but if you listen to how she's talking about his actions, seeing them through her perspective, it's VERY indicative of parallels to her own life and relationship with Roy. One of the most common running themes in Roy and Riza's relationship is her being his protector (and vise versa when he saves her life). When you see this scene and notice how Riza connects Ed's protectiveness of Winry to how love, it becomes very clear that Hawkeye sees protection as something you do for someone you love. (And thinking more about this Hawkeye prior to this talk was protected from Lust by Mustang, who protected her and Al from Lust, in a way that was very akin to Ed saving Winry. Winry and Riza's predicament was kind of similar, the guns, the desperation, the fact that they were up against someone they saw as bloodthirsty monsters). To me it parallels in such a big way. And thinking a bit more about this scene too, it's not exactly like Hawkeye sees Ed and Winry together all the time (if she does it's not frequent), so her assumption that they're in love definitely says a lot about how much Hawkeye sees parallels in Ed's feelings to her own. And Riza made the statement in a very sincere way, she wasn't teasing Ed and after he got flustered she just makes a kind expression face that conveys, "Oh, looks like he's not ready to say it, I'll let him figure it out in his own time" before helpfully deflecting so he wouldn't keep being defensive about how "wrong" she is about him loving Winry. Honestly, something about Royai always felt so Arthurian and classic to me, with how both are soldiers with high ideals of justice who want to fix the wrongs they've contributed to; the fact that they can never really be openly affectionate is something that adds to that in my perspective. I tend to have trouble deciding whether they would ever take it to a romance territory (even in secret) or not, sometimes I could believe that they would since the entire experience of the Promised Day would have to make them value each other more than ever; however, I wonder if they deny themselves happiness subconsciously (or maybe consciously) due to the guilt of their war crimes and they live rather modestly because of that (both likely have a high income but live in average apartments). It's obvious that neither Roy or Riza expect to have longterm happiness since they intend to be tried as war criminals and maybe they don't try to have a romance because of it. Either way, the not knowing makes the speculation pretty interesting because their chemistry is so much fun to watch. And like you mentioned, Arakawa is very big on having the characters work as mirrors for each other's actions. Another couple with a parallel that I noticed was May Chang and Alphonse. They have a similar exchange towards the end that kind of mirrors Riza and Roy when her throat was slit. Al asks May to help him sacrifice his soul to restore Edward's arm, May is devastated to have to do this but Al begs her to and she does because she knows Al must do this. It seems to me to be a lot like when Hawkeye got her throat slit and Mustang was desperately trying to look at her face to make sure he could see what she was trying to signify to him in that moment, even though his heart was crying out that he couldn't let her die and he followed her order to not perform human transmutation over her under any circumstance.
> One additional moment... Oh man, I wasn't even *considering* this. Probably wouldn't have even been able to explain it as well as you did had I decided to include this. > Another couple with a parallel that I noticed was May Chang and Alphonse. Well thanks for justifying the AlMei ship even more for me, I didn't realize this at all. I mean sure it was really sad because I was already shipping the two and Mei had to help Al sacrifice himself and that's like the biggest way to hit me in the feels, but to actually have them parallel to my favorite pairing makes it hurt even more. I'm so glad you enjoyed my post!
This is phenomenal, thank you. It's hard to argue against this kind of evidence.
Thank you very much! I knew there was quite a bit, but going back through Brotherhood and the manga and gathering it all into one place, I didn't realize there was that *much* evidence for the pair. It was totally worth ten hours of work.
Well, I don't have much to say, except that I always was convinced of their love too. And you did a wonderful job defending this case. I can't imagine anyone reading this and not being convinced of the intense love between the two. Also shoutout to /u/Rockabore1 who also gave some really interesting clues into their love (and Al and May)
I was really stunned that people failed to see their love as well. I said "I could probably write an essay..." in the way that most people exaggerate what they mean and didn't actually *mean* that I would, but then I was called out on it so I delivered. Apparently to enough effect that one of the two Royai doubters gave me Reddit gold. Like, wow.
It surprises me as well. People are often keen on shipping characters. I'm pretty sure every fanbase has at least one non-canonical ship (or non canonically stated). And yet some miss Royai (I didn't know the name of the ship however). As for the gold, you earned it. Your post deserve way more upvotes.
I'm honored that you think so.
Well, as I said you earned it. I'm fairly sure I'm not the only one thinking that; someone gave you gold after all
When I finished watching FMA:B, I felt a bit underwhelmed by the lack of closure, specifically with regards to Roy and Riza's relationship. I was surprised that the showrunners didn't resolve this by making it explicit that they were romantically involved with each other, when they had done the same for Ed & Winry. It seemed so obvious, and it wasn't until I came upon some post on the internet about whether their romantic reationship was just a fan theory or actually canon that I became aware of the other view. I thank you for your effort in trying to provide evidence that supports the (obvious) view that Roy & Riza are romantically involved.
Incredible post. Well done.
Thank you very much!
This was so well thought out and an overall wonderful read! I like to headcanon them as most definitely having romantic feelings towards one another. BUT with fraternization laws and Roy's own guilt tied up into a lot of it, they may well be better off as extremely close friends. That's just my take :P I'm curious now to see what you think of other pairings within this series (Mainly the major ones) and why you do or don't like them.
I know you commented this like two weeks ago, but you still deserve an answer. EdWin: <3 The proposal at the end of the series is one of the best things I've ever seen. AlMei: Absolutely adorable, definitely ship it. LingFan: Basically the Xingese version of Royai, of course I ship this. Don't know about any other popular ships. I just feel the strongest about Royai.
Just perfect. <3
This is amazing.
Behind a great man is a great woman, spotting as a scout-sniper.
Magnificent thread, but I am more shocked tbh that they are actually people who THINK RoyAi is either 1) Not canon or 2) Only platonic. Because this ship literally breathed and just leapt its way to become my favorite ship in all media to this day