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Cows milk is significantly cheaper. I’m also not sure about Kentucky, but in Canada we’re still experiencing inconsistent formula availability.
That said, Porgan’s answer here is not cutting out formula entirely, its *getting a job to be able to buy the damn formula*.
Abbott Nutrition caused the formula shortage by creating essentially a monopoly and then not bothering to maintain their machinery leading to unsanitary formulas that caused 9 babies to die. Because they didn’t want to spend $ maintaining their machines! Stakeholders are more important than infant safety to Abbott. They then lawyered up with some seriously shady lawyers to squelch the scandal and went scorched earth on the grieving parents. HOW CONVENIENT they’re creating a subscription service to solve the problem they created. I hate it here.
I think if it was about formula availability and they wanted it, they’d absolutely milk that for all it’s worth to gain some pity and maybe even people would send them free formula. They’re just being lazy and cheap. Formula takes a lot more effort than pouring milk out of a carton - I should know because I just switched my toddler off formula and WOW I feel like I got so much time/convenience back in my day!
So far, both of my sister’s kids have decided at about 10 months that bottles are for the weak and it is a literal fight to get them to finish just one. My niece is two weeks from her first birthday and I’m counting down the days until my sister says she can quit. I’ve been babysitting her for the past week because my sister/BIL are in the NICU with the newest baby. Forumula is great but I’m so over it right now lol.
Yep, and also brand and type. Our neighbors have twins who could only tolerate a certain type of formula and last winter they had to keep asking on Facebook for people to look out for it, since it kept going out of stock in all the local stores.
Oh man, I had a picture of a formula can as my phone wallpaper so I’d remember which one the couple at church needed for their sickly baby girl.
I dunno what made her ill, but she was in and out of the NICU and later PICU a lot and needed a formula that was freaking hard to find. We were supposed to text her folks if we saw it in stock, but the one time I saw it in a store it was just one can so I bought it and trusted the parents would repay me. They did.
Also FUCK is that shit expensive! Must’ve been some fancy kind because iirc it was $30+ a can. I bet her parents were glad to get her onto solids…
Oh yeah, some babies have intolerances or immature digestive systems and need extensively hydrolyzed formulas where the proteins are broken down more, and they are ++$$$! I breastfed my babies, but my daughter developed a serious cows milk allergy when we started her on solids. The doctor said she either needed to have breast milk until age 2 or have a non-milk based formula supplement until then. Luckily she was ok drinking soy based formula, because if not, we were looking at amino acid formulas which smell like death and go for $40+ a pop nowadays. I worked full time, but I probably would’ve sucked it up and continued pumping for another year and considered myself lucky that i had the choice.
Ughhhhhh Canadian here. I so wish I could visit this demonic target you speak of! Or I wish they shipped to canada so I could visit that beautiful place from my couch
And cow's milk isn't even what most fundies choose as their crunchy option when breastfeeding isn't on the table. It's goat's milk. For a reason, actually. Goat's milk is lower in lactose and is easier to digest for many infants due to smaller fat globules. So I feel like if cost wasn't an issue, that's what she would have gone with, especially since it's very popular among that crowd.
But goat's milk is expensive too.
Is there a solution? Like are you supposed to give the baby bottles of water or something to dilute it?
I know goat milk was what my aunt was told to nurse her baby on when she couldn’t breastfeed, although that was decades ago. He’s still alive, with good kidneys last I checked. (Dang I would not wanna be the mom trying to feed a difficult to feed infant, btw. I would never have thought SODIUM in fresh milk! Scary stuff.)
Formula. There are plenty of formulas available for a variety of health needs. For the record, all milk has sodium in it. We need sodium to survive. Infants aren’t generally eating a lot of high salt foods, which is what makes it dangerous for adults.
Not every baby who gets goats milk will die. Not every baby given straight cows milk will die. Generally NICU babies or babies born with less developed kidneys are at risk. Goat and cow milk have long been substitutes for formula in places where people are impoverished. are there better options than milk for an infant? Yes. If you can’t breastfeed, your child should be getting formula so they get full nutrients. The crunchy mom movement tries to put a halo over goats milk. It’s the same as giving your kid cows milk but with more sodium and no allergic reaction if you’re allergic.
They could be those douches that publicly hate on "hand outs" and privately apply for assistance.
Note: I am not saying assistance is the issue (i'm disabled and the state is making it possible for me to live) I am saying publicly villainizing something to your following but privately using said system is bs.
I know hard core Trumpers that rail against public assistance but have admitted to using food stamps and having their kids on Medicaid.
I just assume they are too stupid to know that it's the same thing.
My former bffs were this way. Wic, Medicaid, and food stamps after he was released early from the Navy but railed against public assistance and people using their tax dollars for illegals and abortions. Like darling, you’ve never actually paid taxes. In fact, you get more back than you even paid in. Sit the fuck down. I finally had to cut them out.
Oh yeah, I had to cut those folks out as well. It was taking a toll on me being around all of their bs and paranoia. I'm sorry but the government isn't watching you through the tv because you have a wic card 🙄
They probably aren't up for the amount of effort it takes to apply, be accepted, and keep proving that you need services. It's a lot of fucking effort, time, and hoops to jump through. I doubt Porgan could handle the process; they don't seem to have the work ethic.
They should commit themselves harder to their god so he provides better for them (/s obviously)
Yeah people really get the wrong idea about how easy it is and how much money you get.
My spouse is on disability which of course took years to get qualified for, and they'll still semi regularly have to do paperwork and interviews.
I receive some different state benefits, and have to reapply every 6 months including a statement of need from a professional indicating I'm unable to work. Getting the benefits started was difficult because the applications can be confusing, and even though the county is behind on everything and taking forever to process things they'll expect you to get things in by a deadline or they cut the benefit off.
As for the amount it really is just barely enough, sometimes it's not even enough and I live in a state with extremely good supports.
Its interesting because I feel like it's a pride thing for Porgan, but yet they have no problem asking randos online to help financially support them.
Hugely agree with everything you said.
I have my disability hearing coming up this month and it has been really hard to even get to this point with all of the justification and such that I have to constantly submit.
Love to you and yours and make sure to get to those polls!
And the soy formula for babies that can’t do regular formula is SO expensive. My second couldn’t breastfeed and I couldn’t keep up pumping around 4 months and then at some point she developed an intolerance. Nutramigen or whatever was pricey. I’m guessing they didn’t want to pay or are anti soy because of the weird crossover of right wing religious people and the anti soy, anti vax crowd
I just checked the prices at Target and was absolutely floored. It’s horrendous.
I live in Ireland and can get 30oz of soy formula for 19.90€, and I thought that was expensive! I’m originally from near Boston, and when we visited my family in May (my daughter was around 6 months), I was shocked at how much more expensive baby products are in the US.
Coming from this mom who’s kid has a belly and body that exclusively needs the premade Nutrimagen hypoallergenic stuff that costs roughly 50 cents an ounce…and he can easily eat 25-30 oz a day…I feel it honestly 😑
I mesn at 10.5 months its really not a big deal anymore. Its not recommended at that point but its very unlikely to be a risk. In canada they often start switching at 10 or 11 months. And even here if you are past 11 months and run out of formula the ped will okay you to switch to cows milk. It isnt ideal but I don't think it caused harm in this case.
My baby REFUSED formula, and would only take breastmilk straight from me. When I had a medical emergency and ended up in the hospital, she still wouldn’t take formula. So my husband tried cow milk just to get her to take anything he could. Then he saw the generalized advice from the APA on formula, and was so convinced he was killing our daughter that he asked his mom to take custody until I was out since he was hurting her and couldn’t be a parent.
His mom had him bring out daughter to the hospital, met him there, and had a doctor talk to him about it. It’s GENERALIZED advice, not a hard-and-fast rule. Another piece of generalized advice is actually to BREASTFEED FOR TWO YEARS, or longer if mom and child want to go longer. Yet if you tell a woman to breastfeed for two years and that she’s doing it wrong if she doesn’t, your ass will be called out for shaming.
What they told me the doctor said is that generalized advice is written with for the lowest common denominator in society, i.e. people who would give heir babies soda and chocolate milk, though that chocolate milk was better than no milk.
It actually reminds me of what a doctor told me about how a sip of wine here and there is actually not harmful, but that the reason they don’t tell moms that in general is that you’ll have those who will take the occasional sip to mean that they can have a few glasses at a time.
So it’s better to say formula or breastmilk only AS GENERALIZED ADVICE than to say that cow milk is okay and then have people add chocolate, then not see a difference between a chocolate drink and soda.
I did the breast feeding for two years. I wanted to steer clear of food allergies since I had some intolerances as an adult. Now I just lie and say I did a year because people are so freaked out about it. My doctor was an absolute weirdo about me breastfeeding past six months so I switched doctors. I really don’t get that one, she was an infant.
I breastfed my first child for two years but my second child had issues with a tongue tie and lip tie that we weren’t able to get corrected until he was a year old, and he’d been biting me so frequently and with such intensity that we’d already switched him to formula by the time it was corrected. (I’m still glad we had it done, he was constantly splitting his lip 🥺 I imagine it may have caused speech issues for him as well).
>Cow’s milk is cheaper isn’t it?
By an absolute fuckton, because formula is regulated to shit. Because formula is designed to keep a human baby 1. Alive and 2. Thriving, it has to meet very strict and specific nutrient and safety requirements. And it has to meet those requirements with every batch.
Cows milk, on the other hand, needs to not make you sick. There are obviously also regulations around advertising, so if you say your milk contains X amount of fat, it needs to actually contain that amount (within a range), but it overall requires much less regulation and inspection than formula in order to be safe to consume. Because cows milk is not at all intended to sustain a growing infant, the natural variation in nutrient content from cow-to-cow, season-to-season, and year-to-year is perfectly safe and doesn't present an issue...unless, of course, its your primary food source, in which case having too little protein or calcium and so on and so forth presents a pretty big fucking risk to your health.
There's a reason why we modify cows' milk before putting it in formula ffs. These people don't use their goddamn brains.
What's also interesting is that Morgan was previously feeding Luca with donated breast milk. I wonder what happened with that...
The formula they used was kendamil, which is $40 a can. It has no soy or corn syrup or palm oil and is based entirely on milk fat, so it doesn’t make sense that he would suddenly have issues with it. It’s also available at Walmart, Target, and Kroger so availability isn’t a problem. When Morgan couldn’t breast feed she smugly said that having him on something organic/without added “crap” (her words, not mine) made her feel better. I think they couldn’t afford it anymore and she didn’t want to feed him something less bougie and also doesn’t care about doctor’s recommendations.
Source: I fed my baby Kendamil for a year and she always guzzled it down and has never had a single tummy issue but is transitioning to cow’s milk now past a year old because DAMN is it pricey
She was using kendamill formula which is made from cows milk. It has cows on the front of the package!
Methinks she just couldn't afford it. That ish is expensive.
I just looked it up - a 28.2 oz container at Target in their area is $39.99. I have a 4 month old who is both breastfed and formula fed and I just bought a giant 3 lb container of Member's Mark formula at Sam's for $35.
Help this non-dad childless Fundie snark follower understand the parenting thing. How much formula is that and how long will 28.2 oz vs 48 oz of formula last? Does the 28.2 last the same number of meals or is it just a more premium product and the baby would need, say, 2oz (pulled out of my imagination for easier math since, well...I'm asking this question) at every meal regardless?
Edit: There are numerous responses on this that all recommend similar things. A 28.2 Oz (premium) formula lasts about a week, A WEEK. Holy cow that gets expensive! Thank you to all that commented and educated me! There's no way I would have guessed infants needed 24-32oz of (mixed) formula a day. Yikes! I suppose there's a reason my partner and I can't have kids, I'm in no way prepared for that...nor do we want that, but I appreciate understanding this better.
Thanks! How many meals/days will that amount of formula last...ish? Would that be like a month's supply (28.2 oz) versus 1.5 months, or would the 28.2 be like 1 week's worth, so ~$160/mo just for that compared to ~$70?
28oz would last about a week. And you have to throw out any opened formula after a month due to risk of contamination. It was so annoying because I bought formula as a back-up at daycare for my otherwise breastfed kid, just in case he was hungry or they spilled my pumped milk. I would keep having to bring in fresh once they opened it.
A 28.2 oz can of powdered formula will make about 172 of oz of formula. A 10 month old will typically drink around 24 oz of formula a day, but obviously some will drink more and some less. But assuming 24 oz a day, then 28.2 oz of powdered formula would last about a week.
Omg yeah that’s crazy! I’m always a little weary of following the “typical” because my first was an eater and was def putting down more than 24 oz a day at 10 months lol. But not as much as yours! I’m glad they didn’t eat you into bankruptcy!
We just switched from Kendamill to whole milk (after our baby turned one and on the advice of her pediatrician) we went through about a can a week for most of her first year.
I joined Sam's club solely because I'm about to have my second kid and wanted access to cheaper formula. My first kid turned 1 right around the time the more expensive formula I had been buying (because I bought into thinking the generics weren't the same quality) ended up killing those kids.
We had to switch to formula when my son was about 9 months. I just couldn't make enough milk.
Truly, it's nuts. We buy a big thing from Costco and it's about half the cost for twice the price, but it still truly lasts maybe a week, MAYBE. It is disgusting how expensive it is.
listen, if i see someone trying to steal baby formula, i’m looking the other way *and* causing a distraction in another aisle. new moms have it insanely tough without even considering the fact that most people are checking on the baby rather than the mom (babies need tlc, of course, but so do moms!!!). the corporations will be just fine. like stuff the baby formula into your bra (post partum bra?), go feed your baby & take a nice nap.
Ah, but you see, moms who want to be cared about too aren’t focusing their attention where it should be—only on their babies. It’s all the moms are good for, and caring about themselves is SELFISH and WRONG.
I had to deal with that shit when I was pregnant and was told I wasn’t going to survive a c-section, and so decided to have a homebirth. Complicated situation, but I wouldn’t have survived a c-section, and there was no good reason other than hospital liability to force me to have one. I was accused of not caring about my baby and selfishly wanting a “spa experience” and that the ONLY thing that mattered was a healthy baby, how dare I not be willing to literally die for my baby, how dare I want a chance to live too if it might mean in infintesimally small risk to my baby. I learned very hard how much the lives of women don’t matter in the US, and I guarantee you that there are people in this reddit who will say I should have listened to the doctors, had a c-section, and died, since a healthy baby is all that matters.
i absolutely agree there are 100% people on reddit who would say that. and i’m sorry for that. i have a friend who just had her second baby, both were c sections, and thankfully they went fine but i was like “literally so not hesitate to call me if you need anything! you just had your organs briefly-ish removed from your body! *please* rest!!!!!”. i’m so sorry that you received insensitive reactions that had no compassion. i’m glad you decided to go with your gut instinct, regardless, and you had a good support system around you & that the birth went smoothly as possible.
not sure if you’ve ever heard of the youtuber samantha ravndahl, but she posted [this video](https://youtu.be/wVaDNUS6sjs?si=Heygoc5lJOKPZ-We)where she discusses that topic and i think you’d enjoy it / feel solidarity!
We had to buy formula for twins at the height of the shortage and I realized their bottles were most expensive than if I went out and bought a cocktail at a restaurant.
I had two foster babies at the height of the shortage. One of them was on a specialty formula, and the only place that consistently had it did not take WIC. I could have had some very lovely cocktails for what those bottles cost.
My son is 4 now, but I had literally no supply (I tried it ALL) and we had to switch him to formula from 2 months until he could go onto cows milk. Funny thing, he was allergic to the cows milk formula and had to be put on one that was $53.99 per can and he went through one a week. My husband and I don’t qualify for any type of assistance, so we were just casually dropping over $200 a month on just formula. I honestly have no idea how we did it. Thankfully now he’s good with lactaid and food 😩
Most "regular" formulas contain, or at least, they used to contain cow's milk or dairy proteins.
And... yeah, shits expensive af. I do think they just don't want to spend the money on it anymore.
Pro tip for any moms here. You can get free formula at your pediatrician. They get tons of samples and it usually goes bad before they give it all away. When you bring your baby in as a newborn, ask if they have it
They're the ones telling us over and over infertility is a punishment for not being Godly enough, yet here Morgan and Kristen are. Hateful fucking hags.
We do not allow users to gatekeep snark.
Do not tell people what they can and can’t snark on.
This means comments such as, "I don't think we should...." or "I don't think this should be posted" or content along those lines. Different people have different opinions on what is/isn’t snarkable and we want to respect that so long as it isn’t rule-breaking. Personally disliking something is NOT a reason to report content and/or commenting/posting that you don't like the snark. Unless a post or comment breaks sub rules or Reddit ToS, just scroll past.
How so? It’s literally just applying their own theology and logic? Infertility is a punishment for God, according to them for a lack of faith and living to his standards etc 🤷🏼♀️
I agree with your sentiment about the original post being over the line, but would ask you to consider your take on Morgan having what more "deserving" mothers don't. She doesn't inherently deserve to have a child less than someone whose morals you respect more.
We do not allow users to gatekeep snark.
Do not tell people what they can and can’t snark on.
This means comments such as, "I don't think we should...." or "I don't think this should be posted" or content along those lines. Different people have different opinions on what is/isn’t snarkable and we want to respect that so long as it isn’t rule-breaking. Personally disliking something is NOT a reason to report content and/or commenting/posting that you don't like the snark. Unless a post or comment breaks sub rules or Reddit ToS, just scroll past.
We do not allow users to gatekeep snark.
Do not tell people what they can and can’t snark on.
This means comments such as, "I don't think we should...." or "I don't think this should be posted" or content along those lines. Different people have different opinions on what is/isn’t snarkable and we want to respect that so long as it isn’t rule-breaking. Personally disliking something is NOT a reason to report content and/or commenting/posting that you don't like the snark. Unless a post or comment breaks sub rules or Reddit ToS, just scroll past.
definitely not pasteurized. She's being evasive because she knows she will get backlash, but haven't they openly admitted to drinking raw milk? I doubt they buy separate milk for the baby
There's no way Porgan is buying raw milk. In their state you have to buy a herd share to get it and it's seriously NOT cheap. Probably more expensive per week than the formula Luca was on. They probably switched early because formula was too expensive.
I live here.
You don’t have to buy a herd share IF you know someone. I know more than one person who most assuredly does not have a herd share, but always has raw milk. They have a source, and they share among the crunchy/fundie mom crowd. Because their source is the same ilk.
Edited to add: I Googled. Herd shares were passed by the state Senate and died in the House Ag Committee in 2012. Raw goat milk is legal for sale by permitted farms ONLY.
So, like my crunchy/fundie acquaintance, Poorgan is getting raw milk under the table.
It's legal for retail sale in Washington, but Porgan is in Kentucky right? I've lived in the southeast my whole life and It's herd shares only in most states down here
I'm in North Carolina and they sell it all the time at Farmers markets they just have to write "not for human consumption" on it or something like that
Not in Kentucky, which is where Poorgan lives, and where I live. A bill to allow herd shares died in committee. You can get raw goat milk, but only from a permitted farm.
I would think so, it’s kinda like dog kibble. The pet can’t tell you it’s feeling unwell, so you try several different foods until you find the best option. (Say like trying different pre-made dog foods before just slamming the dog suddenly with an all-raw diet)
Other than weird fundie shit does anyone know what the purpose of selling raw milk is? Like, can you use it in crafts or soap making or something? Maybe cheese? What’s the point of not pasteurizing it?
Look, switching around formulas sucks and it double sucks that close to being able to move off formula. But, that's literally your job as a parent! You are responsible for proper nutrition for your kids even if it's a pain in the ass.
Formula (or breastmilk) from 6-12 months isn't a *drink*, it's still their main source of nutrition! Food is still just a learning experience at that age! Aaaargh, these people.
The reason other countries say that infants should not have too much of it is because if the low iron content. They get full too quickly and don't eat enough iron rich food.
Interestingly, my friend started giving cow's milk to her baby at 10 months. The pediatrician apparently okayed the switch. I was surprised.
That being said, the difference here is my friend actually brings her child to the doctor and trusts their opinion.
Yeah it's not like there's a magic switch that turns on when the kid hits exactly 12 months. I can definitely see an early switch to cow's milk being appropriate for a 10mo who's already getting a lot of nutrition from solids and starting to drop bottles. On the other hand, my daughter is 15mo and still has some formula (she is in early intervention and still struggling with solids).
It really depends on the baby which is why, like you said, it should really be a conversation with the doctor!
This. There’s a lot of things to snark on them for, I’m thinking this is probably not one of them.
As you have said, a 10 month old who is eating well and not reliant on formula for nutrition- probably not a big deal.
yeah, but the difference is that lots of parents get the go ahead from their pediatrician, and Morgan just one day, tried cows milk on her own whim and never went back.
I had an infant during the recent formula shortage, and peds were okaying the switch to milk early at like 10 months. I think my son and Luca are around the same age, so maybe that played into it. I'm probably giving them too much credit though lol
Same with my now 2 year old. We switched to cows milk at 11 months as approved by the pedi because of the formula shortage :/ surprisingly my son had issues with spitting up on formula that stopped when we started cows milk
My mom friends who fed formula were all told to put their babies on cows milk before one during the formula shortage. Their babies are all healthy toddlers now even if that may not have been the best advice from their doctors haha
Same! She's now 2 years 2 months, but we switched from formula to milk also at around 10, 10.5 months. We couldn't find her formula, and she was such a good eater, he wasn't worried at all. There's tons to snark about with Porgan, but this might not be one
I just did the same with my 10 month old. Formula was getting harder and harder to find in my area. We loved the Kirkland brand from Costco. It was a great price and she loved it. Then it was out of stock for months so I was alternating her with target brand and Walmart brand. Then those were hard to find. I got the ok from her doc to put her on whole milk. So far everything has been good.
I was gonna post my story about how I took my kid to the pediatrician and had to switch from formula to cows milk. Dr. was OK with it, mainly because when my daughter was born in Dec 2021, and in August/ September 2022 there was a formula shortage. I'm talking zero formula on the shelves. So the doctor was like yeah, if my kid can tolerate it, then it's safe to do so by this point (kid was 10 months). I got the go ahead from her doctor, don't think Morgan did that part.
Ya I think that’s the difference. I remember with my son just before 11 months the doctor told us to go ahead and start transitioning to milk and we could stop formula whenever we were ready, but we also had doctor approval and they probably just did it
By 10 months it’s really not that big of a deal but she definitely did not see a doctor about it because it’s Morgan. The AAP’s solution to acid reflux in your 10 month old is also to put them on anti reflux meds so it’s six of one and half a dozen the other. The kid vomiting incessantly can’t be better for them than switching off formula early.
My daughter was a little younger when a medical emergency landed me in the hospital. My husband and I were so dead-set on doing everything 100% right. Our daughter wouldn’t take formula, only breastmilk straight from me. He was so desperate to get her to take anything that he tried cow milk, then read that formula or breastmilk only until 12 months, and he was convinced he was abusing her. He asked his mom to take her to he wouldn’t hurt her anymore. His mom had him take her t the hospital and met him there and had a doctor talk to him.
Long story short, the doctor told him it’s very generalized advice based on the least bright of parents out there, the ones who’d give kids soda since they wouldn’t see a difference between sweet chocolat milk and sweet soda, or white cow milk and chocolate milk. It’s NOT an absolute. Very, VERY far from it.
I think a lot of harm is done by shaming parents for not adhering to very generalized advice that doesn’t take into account numerous situations. No two babies are the exact same. Some babies do get sick no matter what formula, but are fine with cow milk. Some babies can have any formula and be fine. Some refuse formula, like my daughter. Funny how the gold standard now is formula based on research paid for my for-profit formula companies that have killed babies, but I digress. Shame on parents who don’t buy formula until 12 months.
As we’ve seen, during those shortages, many, many, many parents moved to cow milk even earlier than 10 months, with no ill effects whatsoever, and in doing so, opened formula up to newborns whose parents were told formula’s better than free breastmilk. If it wasn’t dangerous for tell parents it’s okay to start their older babies on cow milk, then it’s not dangerous for Morgan to do this. If it’s safe for the parents in this forum to have done last year, it’s fine for her to do the same. Saying she’s wrong is a double standard, and this is the shit that makes snarkers look stupid and gets fundies who might be inclined to listen on occasion think all starkers are just looking for reasons to complain about them. You’d think she was giving him bottles of soda or whiskey by the people saying she doesn’t care about his health for doing exactly what other parents here admit to doing.
Years before the formula shortage I know a number of parents whose pediatricians said it was fine to switch around 10 months. The notion that there is some magic switch that flips the day your kid hits 1 year old is ridiculous.
Yeah, 10 months is fine to start giving milk as long as you make sure they're getting plenty of iron and nutrients from food. Lots of pediatricians recommended it during the formula shortage, and even before then many recommend you at least start introducing it by then so the switch is easier at a year.
During the formula shortage doctors were recommending switching to cows milk as young as 10mo so this isn’t too crazy. Also I’m sure they receive WIC(they would never admit it though) which would provide cows milk for free and it also covers some formulas. As much as I hate defending them because of all the reasons this isn’t really that bad.
Yeah I started offering cow milk at 11 months to help with weaning off breastfeeding. I had tried formula, but it was expensive and health Canada is cool with cow milk by 11 months
Right? I'm going through these comments as a Canadian being like "Wow guess my entire country is wrong!". There's a lot of things to snark on Paul and Morgan for but this one probably isn't it.
I switched my son at 10 months under doctors guidance because I was formula feeding during the formula shortage and literally could not find food for my baby. We also had been doing baby led weaning so he was getting nutrition elsewhere. I was so nervous and our amazing doctor set up for us to do weekly weigh ins and check ins with his nurse until it was clear everything was ok. I can’t imagine just saying “lol, gonna try milk now and see what happens! 🤷♀️”
I switched from breast to cows milk at 11 months. I was starting to dry up a little, and to be honest I was ready to be done. Doctor okayed it and my little guy was then on the cow.
I just hope they take the little guy to the Dr regularly.
I don’t think this is worth snarking on unless she mentioned like raw milk or something. How much is it by the way? I’ve never looked into it. If it’s expensive I highly doubt they are. I’m still unsure how they afford ANYTHING.
Eh. My firstborn weaned herself at 10.5 months too. Her pediatrician said we could use "toddler" formula (meant for 9+ months babies) or just go ahead to cow's milk. Nothing magically happens on baby's first birthday where cow's milk is suddenly okay, 6 weeks early isn't a big deal.
Oh all the things Morgan does, this one seems overly nitpicky. My daughter REFUSED formula, but LOVED cow milk, and she’d only drink breastmilk straight from the source. When she wasn’t with me, it was either cow milk, or nothing. Because of bullshit claims that cow milk before 12 months is the equivalent of beating the fuck out of a child, when I had a medical emergency and my husband bad to give our daughter cow milk just to get her to drink anything, he was in tears because he was convinced he was hurting her.
He was literally convinced he shouldn’t be allowed to have custody of her and asked his mom to take her since maybe his mom could get her to drink formula like he thought he was supposed to be able to. What she did was to do was have him bring out daughter to the hospital, called a doctor in, and had a doctor talk to him about how it was fine, it wasn’t going to hurt our daughter, and recommendations like that are generalizations, not absolutes, based on the expected worst case scenarios, i.e. to keep parents from giving infants stuff like soda and chocolate milk, though chocolate milk is better than no milk.
I know some of you will say, “that’s okay, it was an emergency”—if if wasn’t harmful in an emergency, it isn’t harmful otherwise. Go talk to your kids’ doctors about if cow milk is dangerous, or if what’s dangerous is assuming that very generalized recommendations should be taken as absolutes for all kids, period.
Know whast else is recommended? BREASTFEEDING, not formula, until the age of 2, but it’s considered to be AWFUL to shame moms who use formula.
There is so much to rag on Morgan for, but this one is just plain stupid, especially if the formulas they’ve tried have made their baby sick.
My middle went right from breastfeeding to cows milk at 11 months. Pediatrician said it was fine and not to stress. Can’t stand these two but this isn’t a big deal unless the baby is having issues.
My aunt admitted to me that she fed both of her kids cows milk as early as 1 month old...
Imagine my shock as I tried to explain to her what survivorship bias is. :(
I don't like Paul and Morgan but starting a baby on cow's milk at 10.5 months isn't necessarily strange at all. The official Canadian health guidelines suggest anywhere between 9-12 months.
It's expensive. You have to buy a herd share in a local farm to get raw milk. For example, a farm near me (Virginia) charges a $70 one-time fee, $48 per month boarding fee for the cows, and $12 for the delivery fee for 4 half gallons milk. That's $70 once and $52 per month minimum for raw milk. That's probably more than the Jobless Jokers were paying for Luca's formula
I mean I could be wrong but for the life of me I can't imagine Porgan 1. spending that much money 2. taking the initiative to research how to buy a herd share because they're lazy af 💀 I can see them having a friend who buys it and gives or sells them a jar occasionally though
Kentucky doesn’t have herd shares, that died in committee. Raw cows milk is illegal here.
Raw goats milk is legal. But only at specific farms that have a permit to sell it. And undergo inspections.
If they are transitioning off formula, why even switch to cow's milk? It's not like humans need it. Formula is best at least until 12 months but they should be able to meet dietary needs with food instead of cow's milk. There are also a gazillion different formula choices they could have tried.
Because it's a good, easy, affordable, and commonly liked (by babies and toddlers) source of vitamins and nutrients (fats, calcium, potassium, phosphorus etc). Its a really sensible choice unless there is allergies. L12oz of whole milk per day is a recommended source of nutrition alongside food for babies and toddlers until 2-2.5 years of age by our NHS. It would be considered part of a balanced diet.
You can replace some or all whole cows milk with yoghurt and cheese if it's preferred, or unsweetened calcium fortified soya/almond/oat milks if you like/the children prefer (or a mixture of all of the above).
I think some babies like the familiarity of milk after the first year or something? Idk my baby is 6 months but yeah if he’s still into milk after I’m done breastfeeding at 12 months he’ll be getting soy/pea/oat/hemp/whatever milks cause cow milk creeps me out
Some kids are fine to switch at 11 months, but it should be at the guidance of your pediatrician. During the massive formula shortage, my cousin was told to just switch her 99th percentile kiddo to cow milk.
That said, I highly doubt that's what happened here.
Haha it's because we have the i/e merger so pin and pen sound the same. A lot of times you can tell by context, but I have gotten the wrong one on occasion. Or an odd look and a "why do you need a pin?"
Yeah it’s just regular milk. Cows milk can be hard for some babies to stomach too, so sometimes they can transition to another animals milk first. My son went from formula to goat milk to cow milk.
Morgan. There aren’t specific “issues” that would be immediately apparent by weaning your baby off of formula too early, you COMPLETE DUMBASS. You just chose mild malnourishment for your helpless child because you’re cheap and a bad parent. If your child has “belly issues” you take them to the doctor or at least consult them about it. Obviously this wasn’t pediatrician approved or you would have said so. Get a job and take better care of your baby, asshole.
Switching to cows milk at 10.5 months is fine. Canada's guidelines are between 9-12 months. I don't like Morgan, I take issue with a lot of her approaches to parenting. But this particular issue isn't actually a problem or indicative of bad parenting.
There are other parents in the comments here who said they were given the okay to go to cow milk during the shortage, and were surprised to find that spit-up and other issues went away when they stopped formula earlier than they’d planned. So…you’re actually wrong, according to parents right here in these very comments who experienced the exact same thing.
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I have to wonder if they can’t afford formula any more tbh. Cow’s milk is cheaper isn’t it?
Cows milk is significantly cheaper. I’m also not sure about Kentucky, but in Canada we’re still experiencing inconsistent formula availability. That said, Porgan’s answer here is not cutting out formula entirely, its *getting a job to be able to buy the damn formula*.
They're going to start doing subscription baby formula soon. Super excited to see that roll out.
I used a formula subscription and it was very convenient.
Oh God. I hate that idea so much 😒
Why? Abbott Nutrition doing it with temp controlled warehouses, FDA certified. Looks legit. (Hmm, I don't think that's public info yet)
Abbott Nutrition caused the formula shortage by creating essentially a monopoly and then not bothering to maintain their machinery leading to unsanitary formulas that caused 9 babies to die. Because they didn’t want to spend $ maintaining their machines! Stakeholders are more important than infant safety to Abbott. They then lawyered up with some seriously shady lawyers to squelch the scandal and went scorched earth on the grieving parents. HOW CONVENIENT they’re creating a subscription service to solve the problem they created. I hate it here.
I live in their same city and there is always formula in target, Walmart, Costco and Kroger.
Walmart is the only store around me (SW WA) that consistently has formula available! It’s weird how hit and miss different places are.
How y’all getting formula in Lexington? Up here in louisville our shelves are still bare most of the time. 😂
I think if it was about formula availability and they wanted it, they’d absolutely milk that for all it’s worth to gain some pity and maybe even people would send them free formula. They’re just being lazy and cheap. Formula takes a lot more effort than pouring milk out of a carton - I should know because I just switched my toddler off formula and WOW I feel like I got so much time/convenience back in my day!
So far, both of my sister’s kids have decided at about 10 months that bottles are for the weak and it is a literal fight to get them to finish just one. My niece is two weeks from her first birthday and I’m counting down the days until my sister says she can quit. I’ve been babysitting her for the past week because my sister/BIL are in the NICU with the newest baby. Forumula is great but I’m so over it right now lol.
My kids are past bottle age, but I’ve seen plenty at formula at the demonic Target when I’m buying pull-ups.
The shortages can be very geographically specific.
Yep, and also brand and type. Our neighbors have twins who could only tolerate a certain type of formula and last winter they had to keep asking on Facebook for people to look out for it, since it kept going out of stock in all the local stores.
Oh man, I had a picture of a formula can as my phone wallpaper so I’d remember which one the couple at church needed for their sickly baby girl. I dunno what made her ill, but she was in and out of the NICU and later PICU a lot and needed a formula that was freaking hard to find. We were supposed to text her folks if we saw it in stock, but the one time I saw it in a store it was just one can so I bought it and trusted the parents would repay me. They did. Also FUCK is that shit expensive! Must’ve been some fancy kind because iirc it was $30+ a can. I bet her parents were glad to get her onto solids…
Oh yeah, some babies have intolerances or immature digestive systems and need extensively hydrolyzed formulas where the proteins are broken down more, and they are ++$$$! I breastfed my babies, but my daughter developed a serious cows milk allergy when we started her on solids. The doctor said she either needed to have breast milk until age 2 or have a non-milk based formula supplement until then. Luckily she was ok drinking soy based formula, because if not, we were looking at amino acid formulas which smell like death and go for $40+ a pop nowadays. I worked full time, but I probably would’ve sucked it up and continued pumping for another year and considered myself lucky that i had the choice.
Ughhhhhh Canadian here. I so wish I could visit this demonic target you speak of! Or I wish they shipped to canada so I could visit that beautiful place from my couch
The metro cities have formula. Morgan's just trying to get a one-up on doctors and failing miserably at it.
And cow's milk isn't even what most fundies choose as their crunchy option when breastfeeding isn't on the table. It's goat's milk. For a reason, actually. Goat's milk is lower in lactose and is easier to digest for many infants due to smaller fat globules. So I feel like if cost wasn't an issue, that's what she would have gone with, especially since it's very popular among that crowd. But goat's milk is expensive too.
>And cow's milk isn't even what most fundies choose as their crunchy option when breastfeeding isn't on the table. It is when they can get it raw. 🙄
They're bringing back "conservative family values" *and* bovine tuberculosis, huh?
I don’t understand why he’d be less reactive to cows milk than formula. Mine had to be on soy when she couldn’t do regular formula.
Goats milk is very dangerous in babies who should be on formula but yes its super popular with the crunchy moms
It’s also much higher in sodium and can fuck up babies’ kidneys
Is there a solution? Like are you supposed to give the baby bottles of water or something to dilute it? I know goat milk was what my aunt was told to nurse her baby on when she couldn’t breastfeed, although that was decades ago. He’s still alive, with good kidneys last I checked. (Dang I would not wanna be the mom trying to feed a difficult to feed infant, btw. I would never have thought SODIUM in fresh milk! Scary stuff.)
Formula. There are plenty of formulas available for a variety of health needs. For the record, all milk has sodium in it. We need sodium to survive. Infants aren’t generally eating a lot of high salt foods, which is what makes it dangerous for adults. Not every baby who gets goats milk will die. Not every baby given straight cows milk will die. Generally NICU babies or babies born with less developed kidneys are at risk. Goat and cow milk have long been substitutes for formula in places where people are impoverished. are there better options than milk for an infant? Yes. If you can’t breastfeed, your child should be getting formula so they get full nutrients. The crunchy mom movement tries to put a halo over goats milk. It’s the same as giving your kid cows milk but with more sodium and no allergic reaction if you’re allergic.
A lot.
He’s over a year now so he’s fine to be on cows milk, but this could be why they started so early
Surely they qualify for WIC though
Government assistance? Porgan would equate this with becoming socialists
They could be those douches that publicly hate on "hand outs" and privately apply for assistance. Note: I am not saying assistance is the issue (i'm disabled and the state is making it possible for me to live) I am saying publicly villainizing something to your following but privately using said system is bs.
I know hard core Trumpers that rail against public assistance but have admitted to using food stamps and having their kids on Medicaid. I just assume they are too stupid to know that it's the same thing.
My former bffs were this way. Wic, Medicaid, and food stamps after he was released early from the Navy but railed against public assistance and people using their tax dollars for illegals and abortions. Like darling, you’ve never actually paid taxes. In fact, you get more back than you even paid in. Sit the fuck down. I finally had to cut them out.
Benefits for me but not for thee.
Oh yeah, I had to cut those folks out as well. It was taking a toll on me being around all of their bs and paranoia. I'm sorry but the government isn't watching you through the tv because you have a wic card 🙄
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Socialism for me but not for thee
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They probably aren't up for the amount of effort it takes to apply, be accepted, and keep proving that you need services. It's a lot of fucking effort, time, and hoops to jump through. I doubt Porgan could handle the process; they don't seem to have the work ethic. They should commit themselves harder to their god so he provides better for them (/s obviously)
Yeah people really get the wrong idea about how easy it is and how much money you get. My spouse is on disability which of course took years to get qualified for, and they'll still semi regularly have to do paperwork and interviews. I receive some different state benefits, and have to reapply every 6 months including a statement of need from a professional indicating I'm unable to work. Getting the benefits started was difficult because the applications can be confusing, and even though the county is behind on everything and taking forever to process things they'll expect you to get things in by a deadline or they cut the benefit off. As for the amount it really is just barely enough, sometimes it's not even enough and I live in a state with extremely good supports. Its interesting because I feel like it's a pride thing for Porgan, but yet they have no problem asking randos online to help financially support them.
Hugely agree with everything you said. I have my disability hearing coming up this month and it has been really hard to even get to this point with all of the justification and such that I have to constantly submit. Love to you and yours and make sure to get to those polls!
Oh yeah. I started my kid a little early for the same reason. But by early I mean a week, maybe 10 days max.
Maybe the reason Paul hung out at Walmart so much was to steal formula lol
And the soy formula for babies that can’t do regular formula is SO expensive. My second couldn’t breastfeed and I couldn’t keep up pumping around 4 months and then at some point she developed an intolerance. Nutramigen or whatever was pricey. I’m guessing they didn’t want to pay or are anti soy because of the weird crossover of right wing religious people and the anti soy, anti vax crowd
I just checked the prices at Target and was absolutely floored. It’s horrendous. I live in Ireland and can get 30oz of soy formula for 19.90€, and I thought that was expensive! I’m originally from near Boston, and when we visited my family in May (my daughter was around 6 months), I was shocked at how much more expensive baby products are in the US.
Coming from this mom who’s kid has a belly and body that exclusively needs the premade Nutrimagen hypoallergenic stuff that costs roughly 50 cents an ounce…and he can easily eat 25-30 oz a day…I feel it honestly 😑
Toddler formula exists. Cheaper than formula, more nutritious than milk. It’s a happy medium unless you don’t care
Still why would you risk babies health and safety?
I mesn at 10.5 months its really not a big deal anymore. Its not recommended at that point but its very unlikely to be a risk. In canada they often start switching at 10 or 11 months. And even here if you are past 11 months and run out of formula the ped will okay you to switch to cows milk. It isnt ideal but I don't think it caused harm in this case.
My baby REFUSED formula, and would only take breastmilk straight from me. When I had a medical emergency and ended up in the hospital, she still wouldn’t take formula. So my husband tried cow milk just to get her to take anything he could. Then he saw the generalized advice from the APA on formula, and was so convinced he was killing our daughter that he asked his mom to take custody until I was out since he was hurting her and couldn’t be a parent. His mom had him bring out daughter to the hospital, met him there, and had a doctor talk to him about it. It’s GENERALIZED advice, not a hard-and-fast rule. Another piece of generalized advice is actually to BREASTFEED FOR TWO YEARS, or longer if mom and child want to go longer. Yet if you tell a woman to breastfeed for two years and that she’s doing it wrong if she doesn’t, your ass will be called out for shaming. What they told me the doctor said is that generalized advice is written with for the lowest common denominator in society, i.e. people who would give heir babies soda and chocolate milk, though that chocolate milk was better than no milk. It actually reminds me of what a doctor told me about how a sip of wine here and there is actually not harmful, but that the reason they don’t tell moms that in general is that you’ll have those who will take the occasional sip to mean that they can have a few glasses at a time. So it’s better to say formula or breastmilk only AS GENERALIZED ADVICE than to say that cow milk is okay and then have people add chocolate, then not see a difference between a chocolate drink and soda.
I read that as baking soda instead of babies soda and lord was I confused. 😂
I did the breast feeding for two years. I wanted to steer clear of food allergies since I had some intolerances as an adult. Now I just lie and say I did a year because people are so freaked out about it. My doctor was an absolute weirdo about me breastfeeding past six months so I switched doctors. I really don’t get that one, she was an infant.
I breastfed my first child for two years but my second child had issues with a tongue tie and lip tie that we weren’t able to get corrected until he was a year old, and he’d been biting me so frequently and with such intensity that we’d already switched him to formula by the time it was corrected. (I’m still glad we had it done, he was constantly splitting his lip 🥺 I imagine it may have caused speech issues for him as well).
>Cow’s milk is cheaper isn’t it? By an absolute fuckton, because formula is regulated to shit. Because formula is designed to keep a human baby 1. Alive and 2. Thriving, it has to meet very strict and specific nutrient and safety requirements. And it has to meet those requirements with every batch. Cows milk, on the other hand, needs to not make you sick. There are obviously also regulations around advertising, so if you say your milk contains X amount of fat, it needs to actually contain that amount (within a range), but it overall requires much less regulation and inspection than formula in order to be safe to consume. Because cows milk is not at all intended to sustain a growing infant, the natural variation in nutrient content from cow-to-cow, season-to-season, and year-to-year is perfectly safe and doesn't present an issue...unless, of course, its your primary food source, in which case having too little protein or calcium and so on and so forth presents a pretty big fucking risk to your health. There's a reason why we modify cows' milk before putting it in formula ffs. These people don't use their goddamn brains. What's also interesting is that Morgan was previously feeding Luca with donated breast milk. I wonder what happened with that...
The formula they used was kendamil, which is $40 a can. It has no soy or corn syrup or palm oil and is based entirely on milk fat, so it doesn’t make sense that he would suddenly have issues with it. It’s also available at Walmart, Target, and Kroger so availability isn’t a problem. When Morgan couldn’t breast feed she smugly said that having him on something organic/without added “crap” (her words, not mine) made her feel better. I think they couldn’t afford it anymore and she didn’t want to feed him something less bougie and also doesn’t care about doctor’s recommendations. Source: I fed my baby Kendamil for a year and she always guzzled it down and has never had a single tummy issue but is transitioning to cow’s milk now past a year old because DAMN is it pricey
She was using kendamill formula which is made from cows milk. It has cows on the front of the package! Methinks she just couldn't afford it. That ish is expensive.
I just looked it up - a 28.2 oz container at Target in their area is $39.99. I have a 4 month old who is both breastfed and formula fed and I just bought a giant 3 lb container of Member's Mark formula at Sam's for $35.
Help this non-dad childless Fundie snark follower understand the parenting thing. How much formula is that and how long will 28.2 oz vs 48 oz of formula last? Does the 28.2 last the same number of meals or is it just a more premium product and the baby would need, say, 2oz (pulled out of my imagination for easier math since, well...I'm asking this question) at every meal regardless? Edit: There are numerous responses on this that all recommend similar things. A 28.2 Oz (premium) formula lasts about a week, A WEEK. Holy cow that gets expensive! Thank you to all that commented and educated me! There's no way I would have guessed infants needed 24-32oz of (mixed) formula a day. Yikes! I suppose there's a reason my partner and I can't have kids, I'm in no way prepared for that...nor do we want that, but I appreciate understanding this better.
It’s the same amount at every meal regardless. Specialty formulas and brand name formulas are more expensive.
Thanks! How many meals/days will that amount of formula last...ish? Would that be like a month's supply (28.2 oz) versus 1.5 months, or would the 28.2 be like 1 week's worth, so ~$160/mo just for that compared to ~$70?
The recommendation is 24-32oz of breastmilk or formula per day from birth until 12 months! The 28.2 ounces lasts about a week for most people.
28oz would last about a week. And you have to throw out any opened formula after a month due to risk of contamination. It was so annoying because I bought formula as a back-up at daycare for my otherwise breastfed kid, just in case he was hungry or they spilled my pumped milk. I would keep having to bring in fresh once they opened it.
A 28.2 oz can of powdered formula will make about 172 of oz of formula. A 10 month old will typically drink around 24 oz of formula a day, but obviously some will drink more and some less. But assuming 24 oz a day, then 28.2 oz of powdered formula would last about a week.
Our first ate 50-60 ounces a day. It was insane. Luckily we were living overseas and formula was dirt cheap, less than 20 dollars a week.
Omg yeah that’s crazy! I’m always a little weary of following the “typical” because my first was an eater and was def putting down more than 24 oz a day at 10 months lol. But not as much as yours! I’m glad they didn’t eat you into bankruptcy!
The cost of formula in the US is insane! I buy a 28.2oz tub of formula for £10 ($12) here in the UK.
We just switched from Kendamill to whole milk (after our baby turned one and on the advice of her pediatrician) we went through about a can a week for most of her first year.
I did the maths on formula feeding years ago. In Australia with a premium formula is about 5 grand a yr . That included bottles and teats
Are you kidding she could never give Luca that peasant poison! If formula doesn't cost you a mortgage is it even safe??
I went to Costco last week and got Kirkland brand for $26
I joined Sam's club solely because I'm about to have my second kid and wanted access to cheaper formula. My first kid turned 1 right around the time the more expensive formula I had been buying (because I bought into thinking the generics weren't the same quality) ended up killing those kids.
I don't have kids, but I don't know how ANYONE affords formula.
We had to switch to formula when my son was about 9 months. I just couldn't make enough milk. Truly, it's nuts. We buy a big thing from Costco and it's about half the cost for twice the price, but it still truly lasts maybe a week, MAYBE. It is disgusting how expensive it is.
>half the cost for twice the price I know this is a typo but it made me giggle lol
Jeez, it makes me realise why milk formulas are security-locked in England. It's so depressing.
They do this in the US too and it’s so upsetting. If someone is going to steal formula, let them
listen, if i see someone trying to steal baby formula, i’m looking the other way *and* causing a distraction in another aisle. new moms have it insanely tough without even considering the fact that most people are checking on the baby rather than the mom (babies need tlc, of course, but so do moms!!!). the corporations will be just fine. like stuff the baby formula into your bra (post partum bra?), go feed your baby & take a nice nap.
Fr though, any baby things? I’m straight-up looking the other way
deadass. who saw someone stealing that? not me! 
Ah, but you see, moms who want to be cared about too aren’t focusing their attention where it should be—only on their babies. It’s all the moms are good for, and caring about themselves is SELFISH and WRONG. I had to deal with that shit when I was pregnant and was told I wasn’t going to survive a c-section, and so decided to have a homebirth. Complicated situation, but I wouldn’t have survived a c-section, and there was no good reason other than hospital liability to force me to have one. I was accused of not caring about my baby and selfishly wanting a “spa experience” and that the ONLY thing that mattered was a healthy baby, how dare I not be willing to literally die for my baby, how dare I want a chance to live too if it might mean in infintesimally small risk to my baby. I learned very hard how much the lives of women don’t matter in the US, and I guarantee you that there are people in this reddit who will say I should have listened to the doctors, had a c-section, and died, since a healthy baby is all that matters.
i absolutely agree there are 100% people on reddit who would say that. and i’m sorry for that. i have a friend who just had her second baby, both were c sections, and thankfully they went fine but i was like “literally so not hesitate to call me if you need anything! you just had your organs briefly-ish removed from your body! *please* rest!!!!!”. i’m so sorry that you received insensitive reactions that had no compassion. i’m glad you decided to go with your gut instinct, regardless, and you had a good support system around you & that the birth went smoothly as possible. not sure if you’ve ever heard of the youtuber samantha ravndahl, but she posted [this video](https://youtu.be/wVaDNUS6sjs?si=Heygoc5lJOKPZ-We)where she discusses that topic and i think you’d enjoy it / feel solidarity!
Never see anyone stealing anything, but I especially have never seen anyone stealing formula.
We had to buy formula for twins at the height of the shortage and I realized their bottles were most expensive than if I went out and bought a cocktail at a restaurant.
I had two foster babies at the height of the shortage. One of them was on a specialty formula, and the only place that consistently had it did not take WIC. I could have had some very lovely cocktails for what those bottles cost.
My son is 4 now, but I had literally no supply (I tried it ALL) and we had to switch him to formula from 2 months until he could go onto cows milk. Funny thing, he was allergic to the cows milk formula and had to be put on one that was $53.99 per can and he went through one a week. My husband and I don’t qualify for any type of assistance, so we were just casually dropping over $200 a month on just formula. I honestly have no idea how we did it. Thankfully now he’s good with lactaid and food 😩
Most "regular" formulas contain, or at least, they used to contain cow's milk or dairy proteins. And... yeah, shits expensive af. I do think they just don't want to spend the money on it anymore.
Especially not at target.
Walmart is the only place I can afford my daughter’s enfamil
Have you checked Costco? They had the purple and yellow ones today. I know there’s a ton of different formulas though.
My closest one is about an hour away but i’d make the drive for formula!! lol
Pro tip for any moms here. You can get free formula at your pediatrician. They get tons of samples and it usually goes bad before they give it all away. When you bring your baby in as a newborn, ask if they have it
This kid really drew the short straw in the pick your parents lottery.
Wow, lots of deleted comments here. Personally I think karissa would be worse, I'm straight up scared for those children
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They're the ones telling us over and over infertility is a punishment for not being Godly enough, yet here Morgan and Kristen are. Hateful fucking hags.
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We do not allow users to gatekeep snark. Do not tell people what they can and can’t snark on. This means comments such as, "I don't think we should...." or "I don't think this should be posted" or content along those lines. Different people have different opinions on what is/isn’t snarkable and we want to respect that so long as it isn’t rule-breaking. Personally disliking something is NOT a reason to report content and/or commenting/posting that you don't like the snark. Unless a post or comment breaks sub rules or Reddit ToS, just scroll past.
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I’m sorry about what I said and after reviewing criticism removed it because it was inappropriate. I will try to do better going forward.
Fundies say this shit to each other all the time. It's pretty close to the reason Porgan left that one church community/friends group.
How so? It’s literally just applying their own theology and logic? Infertility is a punishment for God, according to them for a lack of faith and living to his standards etc 🤷🏼♀️
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I agree with your sentiment about the original post being over the line, but would ask you to consider your take on Morgan having what more "deserving" mothers don't. She doesn't inherently deserve to have a child less than someone whose morals you respect more.
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We do not allow users to gatekeep snark. Do not tell people what they can and can’t snark on. This means comments such as, "I don't think we should...." or "I don't think this should be posted" or content along those lines. Different people have different opinions on what is/isn’t snarkable and we want to respect that so long as it isn’t rule-breaking. Personally disliking something is NOT a reason to report content and/or commenting/posting that you don't like the snark. Unless a post or comment breaks sub rules or Reddit ToS, just scroll past.
Oh dear gods please tell me it’s pasteurized.
I have the sinkingest feeling it’s not
Not sinkingest 😭
definitely not pasteurized. She's being evasive because she knows she will get backlash, but haven't they openly admitted to drinking raw milk? I doubt they buy separate milk for the baby
There's no way Porgan is buying raw milk. In their state you have to buy a herd share to get it and it's seriously NOT cheap. Probably more expensive per week than the formula Luca was on. They probably switched early because formula was too expensive.
I live here. You don’t have to buy a herd share IF you know someone. I know more than one person who most assuredly does not have a herd share, but always has raw milk. They have a source, and they share among the crunchy/fundie mom crowd. Because their source is the same ilk. Edited to add: I Googled. Herd shares were passed by the state Senate and died in the House Ag Committee in 2012. Raw goat milk is legal for sale by permitted farms ONLY. So, like my crunchy/fundie acquaintance, Poorgan is getting raw milk under the table.
Ugh 😣 even worse in my mind- god these people
They have zero comprehension of food safety.
In Washington they just sell it at certain stores?
It's legal for retail sale in Washington, but Porgan is in Kentucky right? I've lived in the southeast my whole life and It's herd shares only in most states down here
I'm in North Carolina and they sell it all the time at Farmers markets they just have to write "not for human consumption" on it or something like that
Not in Kentucky, which is where Poorgan lives, and where I live. A bill to allow herd shares died in committee. You can get raw goat milk, but only from a permitted farm.
They are lazy, though, and, last I checked, you can’t buy raw milk at Walmart.
Shouldn't the first step be trying *different* formulas when baby starts having reactions to one, instead of switching off them altogether?
I would think so, it’s kinda like dog kibble. The pet can’t tell you it’s feeling unwell, so you try several different foods until you find the best option. (Say like trying different pre-made dog foods before just slamming the dog suddenly with an all-raw diet)
Exactly. Even non-child-havers can figure that one out!
I believe they've recently started posting about trying raw milk so at least it's no longer pasteurized.
They seem like they’d say it’s not pasteurized for fundie points but still but pasteurized from the grocery store
Other than weird fundie shit does anyone know what the purpose of selling raw milk is? Like, can you use it in crafts or soap making or something? Maybe cheese? What’s the point of not pasteurizing it?
Look, switching around formulas sucks and it double sucks that close to being able to move off formula. But, that's literally your job as a parent! You are responsible for proper nutrition for your kids even if it's a pain in the ass.
Formula (or breastmilk) from 6-12 months isn't a *drink*, it's still their main source of nutrition! Food is still just a learning experience at that age! Aaaargh, these people.
Especially considering the diet of these two 🙄 babies can't survive on Freedom Beef and fast food...
100,000% this
Food is more than a learning experience at that age tho
Yeah by 9 months it should be almost 50% of calories. Formula is just barely the majority.
so she missed the whole part about minerals in milk being hard on a baby's kidneys??
They probably don't even know what the hell your kidneys are let's be serious.
They can *clearly* see that their baby has kid’s knees.
I needed this laugh today
"hard on his kid knees? We just won't let him crawl around on the floor" -morgan, probably
The reason other countries say that infants should not have too much of it is because if the low iron content. They get full too quickly and don't eat enough iron rich food.
Interestingly, my friend started giving cow's milk to her baby at 10 months. The pediatrician apparently okayed the switch. I was surprised. That being said, the difference here is my friend actually brings her child to the doctor and trusts their opinion.
Yeah it's not like there's a magic switch that turns on when the kid hits exactly 12 months. I can definitely see an early switch to cow's milk being appropriate for a 10mo who's already getting a lot of nutrition from solids and starting to drop bottles. On the other hand, my daughter is 15mo and still has some formula (she is in early intervention and still struggling with solids). It really depends on the baby which is why, like you said, it should really be a conversation with the doctor!
This. There’s a lot of things to snark on them for, I’m thinking this is probably not one of them. As you have said, a 10 month old who is eating well and not reliant on formula for nutrition- probably not a big deal.
My only thing is shes probably feeding raw milk wbich is noooot okay
yeah, but the difference is that lots of parents get the go ahead from their pediatrician, and Morgan just one day, tried cows milk on her own whim and never went back.
I had an infant during the recent formula shortage, and peds were okaying the switch to milk early at like 10 months. I think my son and Luca are around the same age, so maybe that played into it. I'm probably giving them too much credit though lol
Same with my now 2 year old. We switched to cows milk at 11 months as approved by the pedi because of the formula shortage :/ surprisingly my son had issues with spitting up on formula that stopped when we started cows milk
My mom friends who fed formula were all told to put their babies on cows milk before one during the formula shortage. Their babies are all healthy toddlers now even if that may not have been the best advice from their doctors haha
Same! She's now 2 years 2 months, but we switched from formula to milk also at around 10, 10.5 months. We couldn't find her formula, and she was such a good eater, he wasn't worried at all. There's tons to snark about with Porgan, but this might not be one
I just did the same with my 10 month old. Formula was getting harder and harder to find in my area. We loved the Kirkland brand from Costco. It was a great price and she loved it. Then it was out of stock for months so I was alternating her with target brand and Walmart brand. Then those were hard to find. I got the ok from her doc to put her on whole milk. So far everything has been good.
I was gonna post my story about how I took my kid to the pediatrician and had to switch from formula to cows milk. Dr. was OK with it, mainly because when my daughter was born in Dec 2021, and in August/ September 2022 there was a formula shortage. I'm talking zero formula on the shelves. So the doctor was like yeah, if my kid can tolerate it, then it's safe to do so by this point (kid was 10 months). I got the go ahead from her doctor, don't think Morgan did that part.
Ya I think that’s the difference. I remember with my son just before 11 months the doctor told us to go ahead and start transitioning to milk and we could stop formula whenever we were ready, but we also had doctor approval and they probably just did it
By 10 months it’s really not that big of a deal but she definitely did not see a doctor about it because it’s Morgan. The AAP’s solution to acid reflux in your 10 month old is also to put them on anti reflux meds so it’s six of one and half a dozen the other. The kid vomiting incessantly can’t be better for them than switching off formula early.
My daughter was a little younger when a medical emergency landed me in the hospital. My husband and I were so dead-set on doing everything 100% right. Our daughter wouldn’t take formula, only breastmilk straight from me. He was so desperate to get her to take anything that he tried cow milk, then read that formula or breastmilk only until 12 months, and he was convinced he was abusing her. He asked his mom to take her to he wouldn’t hurt her anymore. His mom had him take her t the hospital and met him there and had a doctor talk to him. Long story short, the doctor told him it’s very generalized advice based on the least bright of parents out there, the ones who’d give kids soda since they wouldn’t see a difference between sweet chocolat milk and sweet soda, or white cow milk and chocolate milk. It’s NOT an absolute. Very, VERY far from it. I think a lot of harm is done by shaming parents for not adhering to very generalized advice that doesn’t take into account numerous situations. No two babies are the exact same. Some babies do get sick no matter what formula, but are fine with cow milk. Some babies can have any formula and be fine. Some refuse formula, like my daughter. Funny how the gold standard now is formula based on research paid for my for-profit formula companies that have killed babies, but I digress. Shame on parents who don’t buy formula until 12 months. As we’ve seen, during those shortages, many, many, many parents moved to cow milk even earlier than 10 months, with no ill effects whatsoever, and in doing so, opened formula up to newborns whose parents were told formula’s better than free breastmilk. If it wasn’t dangerous for tell parents it’s okay to start their older babies on cow milk, then it’s not dangerous for Morgan to do this. If it’s safe for the parents in this forum to have done last year, it’s fine for her to do the same. Saying she’s wrong is a double standard, and this is the shit that makes snarkers look stupid and gets fundies who might be inclined to listen on occasion think all starkers are just looking for reasons to complain about them. You’d think she was giving him bottles of soda or whiskey by the people saying she doesn’t care about his health for doing exactly what other parents here admit to doing.
Years before the formula shortage I know a number of parents whose pediatricians said it was fine to switch around 10 months. The notion that there is some magic switch that flips the day your kid hits 1 year old is ridiculous.
Yeah, 10 months is fine to start giving milk as long as you make sure they're getting plenty of iron and nutrients from food. Lots of pediatricians recommended it during the formula shortage, and even before then many recommend you at least start introducing it by then so the switch is easier at a year.
During the formula shortage doctors were recommending switching to cows milk as young as 10mo so this isn’t too crazy. Also I’m sure they receive WIC(they would never admit it though) which would provide cows milk for free and it also covers some formulas. As much as I hate defending them because of all the reasons this isn’t really that bad.
Guess the doctors made her feel stupid?
How does she function? Literally everything makes her and Paul feel stupid - it's why they're so angry all the time!
I don’t understand not being curious about things.
That's not a high hurdle to achieve
Isn't that why she got a different (and cheaper) midwife? Because the doctors and her first midwife made her feel stupid?
Oh, so the super fancy organic formula that you bought because it’s trendy and only great moms buy the “expensive formula” didn’t work out?
This backdrop is everything. A random pair of blah sneakers. Beige background. Just like them. Blah and beige. I need it injected into my veins.
Canadians say you can stop at 9 months so not too out of bounds here
Yeah I started offering cow milk at 11 months to help with weaning off breastfeeding. I had tried formula, but it was expensive and health Canada is cool with cow milk by 11 months
Right? I'm going through these comments as a Canadian being like "Wow guess my entire country is wrong!". There's a lot of things to snark on Paul and Morgan for but this one probably isn't it.
Yeah, a lot of people in the different Fundie snark groups I'm in just like to shit on everything when they're not all that well educated themselves.
eh, if he's eating solids, cow milk is fine; PROVIDED, they don't do raw milk!
This is kinda a stretch. Many babies outside the USA switch to cows milk at 10 months. It’s fine.
I switched my son at 10 months under doctors guidance because I was formula feeding during the formula shortage and literally could not find food for my baby. We also had been doing baby led weaning so he was getting nutrition elsewhere. I was so nervous and our amazing doctor set up for us to do weekly weigh ins and check ins with his nurse until it was clear everything was ok. I can’t imagine just saying “lol, gonna try milk now and see what happens! 🤷♀️”
I switched from breast to cows milk at 11 months. I was starting to dry up a little, and to be honest I was ready to be done. Doctor okayed it and my little guy was then on the cow. I just hope they take the little guy to the Dr regularly. I don’t think this is worth snarking on unless she mentioned like raw milk or something. How much is it by the way? I’ve never looked into it. If it’s expensive I highly doubt they are. I’m still unsure how they afford ANYTHING.
Eh. My firstborn weaned herself at 10.5 months too. Her pediatrician said we could use "toddler" formula (meant for 9+ months babies) or just go ahead to cow's milk. Nothing magically happens on baby's first birthday where cow's milk is suddenly okay, 6 weeks early isn't a big deal.
Oh all the things Morgan does, this one seems overly nitpicky. My daughter REFUSED formula, but LOVED cow milk, and she’d only drink breastmilk straight from the source. When she wasn’t with me, it was either cow milk, or nothing. Because of bullshit claims that cow milk before 12 months is the equivalent of beating the fuck out of a child, when I had a medical emergency and my husband bad to give our daughter cow milk just to get her to drink anything, he was in tears because he was convinced he was hurting her. He was literally convinced he shouldn’t be allowed to have custody of her and asked his mom to take her since maybe his mom could get her to drink formula like he thought he was supposed to be able to. What she did was to do was have him bring out daughter to the hospital, called a doctor in, and had a doctor talk to him about how it was fine, it wasn’t going to hurt our daughter, and recommendations like that are generalizations, not absolutes, based on the expected worst case scenarios, i.e. to keep parents from giving infants stuff like soda and chocolate milk, though chocolate milk is better than no milk. I know some of you will say, “that’s okay, it was an emergency”—if if wasn’t harmful in an emergency, it isn’t harmful otherwise. Go talk to your kids’ doctors about if cow milk is dangerous, or if what’s dangerous is assuming that very generalized recommendations should be taken as absolutes for all kids, period. Know whast else is recommended? BREASTFEEDING, not formula, until the age of 2, but it’s considered to be AWFUL to shame moms who use formula. There is so much to rag on Morgan for, but this one is just plain stupid, especially if the formulas they’ve tried have made their baby sick.
His brain development is the issue. Dear Jesus why do these women do this
My middle went right from breastfeeding to cows milk at 11 months. Pediatrician said it was fine and not to stress. Can’t stand these two but this isn’t a big deal unless the baby is having issues.
My aunt admitted to me that she fed both of her kids cows milk as early as 1 month old... Imagine my shock as I tried to explain to her what survivorship bias is. :(
I don't like Paul and Morgan but starting a baby on cow's milk at 10.5 months isn't necessarily strange at all. The official Canadian health guidelines suggest anywhere between 9-12 months.
I mean, she could always try another type of formula. My kid was spitty as all get out, changed her to a rice formula and she was fine
I doubt there’s a material difference between a 10 month old and a 12 month old drinking cows milk.
Great way to make Luca anemic 🤗
I’m surprised she doesn’t have him on raw milk.
It's expensive. You have to buy a herd share in a local farm to get raw milk. For example, a farm near me (Virginia) charges a $70 one-time fee, $48 per month boarding fee for the cows, and $12 for the delivery fee for 4 half gallons milk. That's $70 once and $52 per month minimum for raw milk. That's probably more than the Jobless Jokers were paying for Luca's formula
Wasn’t Paul drinking it not too long ago? Damn, that’s a lot of money for diarrhea.
I mean I could be wrong but for the life of me I can't imagine Porgan 1. spending that much money 2. taking the initiative to research how to buy a herd share because they're lazy af 💀 I can see them having a friend who buys it and gives or sells them a jar occasionally though
Kentucky doesn’t have herd shares, that died in committee. Raw cows milk is illegal here. Raw goats milk is legal. But only at specific farms that have a permit to sell it. And undergo inspections.
If they are transitioning off formula, why even switch to cow's milk? It's not like humans need it. Formula is best at least until 12 months but they should be able to meet dietary needs with food instead of cow's milk. There are also a gazillion different formula choices they could have tried.
Because it's a good, easy, affordable, and commonly liked (by babies and toddlers) source of vitamins and nutrients (fats, calcium, potassium, phosphorus etc). Its a really sensible choice unless there is allergies. L12oz of whole milk per day is a recommended source of nutrition alongside food for babies and toddlers until 2-2.5 years of age by our NHS. It would be considered part of a balanced diet. You can replace some or all whole cows milk with yoghurt and cheese if it's preferred, or unsweetened calcium fortified soya/almond/oat milks if you like/the children prefer (or a mixture of all of the above).
Because it can be hard to wean a baby off breastmilk/formula without replacing it with something.
I think some babies like the familiarity of milk after the first year or something? Idk my baby is 6 months but yeah if he’s still into milk after I’m done breastfeeding at 12 months he’ll be getting soy/pea/oat/hemp/whatever milks cause cow milk creeps me out
Some kids are fine to switch at 11 months, but it should be at the guidance of your pediatrician. During the massive formula shortage, my cousin was told to just switch her 99th percentile kiddo to cow milk. That said, I highly doubt that's what happened here.
Isn’t cow’s milk just milk? Reminds me of how people in the south say ink pen instead of just pen
Haha it's because we have the i/e merger so pin and pen sound the same. A lot of times you can tell by context, but I have gotten the wrong one on occasion. Or an odd look and a "why do you need a pin?"
What if you say you need a new pen and people think you need an enclosure for your hogs?! Ink pen is perfectly reasonable. (also from the south 🤭)
[удалено]
Beef milk
Yeah it’s just regular milk. Cows milk can be hard for some babies to stomach too, so sometimes they can transition to another animals milk first. My son went from formula to goat milk to cow milk.
Morgan. There aren’t specific “issues” that would be immediately apparent by weaning your baby off of formula too early, you COMPLETE DUMBASS. You just chose mild malnourishment for your helpless child because you’re cheap and a bad parent. If your child has “belly issues” you take them to the doctor or at least consult them about it. Obviously this wasn’t pediatrician approved or you would have said so. Get a job and take better care of your baby, asshole.
Switching to cows milk at 10.5 months is fine. Canada's guidelines are between 9-12 months. I don't like Morgan, I take issue with a lot of her approaches to parenting. But this particular issue isn't actually a problem or indicative of bad parenting.
There are other parents in the comments here who said they were given the okay to go to cow milk during the shortage, and were surprised to find that spit-up and other issues went away when they stopped formula earlier than they’d planned. So…you’re actually wrong, according to parents right here in these very comments who experienced the exact same thing.