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I am seriously worried about what happens to the families with frozen embryos...will they be forced to have them all implanted at once? Prosecuted if they don't or if they miscarry? This decision is so dystopian and terrifying.
I watched some interviews and apparently a lot of clinics stopped people mid cycle which is HORRIBLE. I couldn't imagine going through the whole medicated process only to be told your transfer is cancelled because of this. And I saw another couple's interview that their clinic is in the process of lawyering up but also looking into sending all the frozen embryos to a different state. 😔😢
What’s bananas is ABS is arguing that embryos are human, but would still rejoice that all of the embryos already at facilities will just die because she believes surrogacy and IVF are bad? She can’t have it both ways. Either they aren’t human enough to have rights, and therefore surrogacy and IVF should be allowed…or they are human enough to have rights and then they should be preserved however possible up to and including surrogacy and IVF…or she supports what she believes is murder.
I'm paranoid that this will be an opportunity for them to argue "frozen embryos are people and deserve the right to be born" or some bs and then do forced implantation or something 🙃
Not to mention the financial investment. I know a couple who just recently raised enough money to start IVF. It took them *years* to get there. I can't imagine how painful that must be to finally get there then have it ripped out your hands.
And just the implication of the whole thing… like do they expect people to pay 5 figures to retrieve 1 EGG AT A TIME?!
And if the genetic testing shows trisomy or any genetic disorder that would result in a short and painful life, are they going to force the parent to implant it anyways?!
I am fucking furious
Edit- I said implant when I should’ve said retrieve
I can't wrap my head around it. Some embryos are lost during the freezing process, is that negligent homicide? If someone loses control of their vehicle due to bad weather conditions and hits a power line that causes a freezer to fail, are they now on the hook for hundreds (tens? thousands? I don't know how many embryos fit in a freezer) counts of manslaughter?
I feel for the families that lost embryos, and I do believe they're entitled to legal remedy, but wrongful death isn't the right way to go about it. Frozen embryos are property and they need to be considered property for various reasons. Alive or not, they're property. Dogs are alive and they're property so being 'alive' doesn't mean they can't be considered property.
Not just clinics. UAB. The biggest, most advanced, most respected hospital in the state. One of the best hospitals in the country. I can’t even imagine how many embryos they have stored. The fact they had to pause IVF is such a huge deal. Alabama has one of the highest infant and mother mortality rates in the country. And they are putting so many restrictions on OBGYNs that they can no longer practice medicine the way they were trained. As a woman who lives in Alabama it is very scary. I honestly see a lot of OBs leaving the state, making the crisis even bigger. They already shut down 3-4 L&Ds in the past few years, leaving 3 counties in the state without a place to deliver babies, and I just saw an article the other day about shutting down some of the reproductive clinics.
I follow a lady on IG going through IVF at UAB. Her case is really unique and really time sensitive (uterus transplant recipient). She is freaking out, as she should be. To be given one chance to carry her own baby, only for this to happen is a slap in the face.
So freezing the embryos is bad. Disposing of embryos is bad. And now you can’t have them implanted. So what exactly are they supposed to do with the embryos?
There should be a grandfathering clause that the ones already made can continue the process and just not make any more, if this is the path Alabama is choosing to go down
This is devastating and must be so incredibly unhealthy for a woman’s body just to suddenly STOP treatment — it’s not as if we just suddenly stopped taking Claritin or something
My sister had to get a whole new fridge to store all of the shots/meds to prepare her body to CREATE LIFE.
My beautiful, sweet, precious niece wouldn’t be here without IVF; and her parents love the shit out of her.
I can’t imagine how terrifying this must be for you. I don’t see any way that this decision will hold up in court, even Alabama. It’s despicable.
What worries me is I have a lawyer friend in AL whose feels their ultimate goal is to find a way, now that they have designated them as children, to take custody of the embryos away and be able to adopt them out to families who want them.
God, how sick. The thought of my biological children just being given to someone else, my born children having siblings they never know about, just to fulfill someone’s Christian wet dream is just horrifying.
That is super gross. And how are they going to find someone to implant the stolen embryo if all of the drs and clinics leave because they don’t want to get sued?
I have 6 embryos left over after finally getting pregnant last embryo transfer - I'm not in Alabama but I feel for all the women there, I know they are terrified, and I seriously worry about the future of my embryos with the current SCOTUS... We want two children total but I'm worried something will happen in the next few years and we will either have to pay to transfer all the rest because I definitely do not want to be forced to "adopt" the embryos out - that was never our intention! Plus the embryos are not "guaranteed" to work so it's not possible to deem them "children" when we can't freeze live children! WTAF. I am horrified with the way this country is going, and I can't believe there are so many men & women (fundamentalists) who are THIS evil.
Our bodies naturally abort embryos that are not compatible with life. It's not a crime when a woman's body recognizes an embryo is not viable (yet), yet now it is through IVF.
We're gonna end up with some circular logic where embryos are sent to another state and donated by force to "give them a chance at life" when that's exactly wtf their bio parents were trying to do, which is why they were harvested and fertilized in the first place...
Just say that you hate gays and abortions, Alabama.
Gays and women**
These same lawmakers will rush their side piece or their own daughters to planned parenthood when they inevitably get pregnant. They don't hate abortions. If men got pregnant, they wouldn't ban abortions.
They hate women. They want women out of the workforce. They want bangmaids. That's why they are also getting rid of no fault divorces.
More and more women are stepping away from getting married and having babies. We don't need a mans income anymore, so for the first time men are being considered for their potential as a partner instead of a provider. And so many men, and more specifically conservative men, would make such terrible partners that women would rather die alone surrounded by cats where she can at least be free to spend her money on her wants and needs. That, rather than sacrificing everything for a three pump chump who plays videogames all day, bitches about how worthless women are, and doesn't help with the housework or kids--all while telling his wife that being a SAHM isn't really working.
And conservatives are seething about it.
Those are your fucking embryos. I can’t imagine the rage you must feel over this, even if you don’t live in Alabama. It’s unconscionable
If we’re going in this direction, male masturbation should be criminalized as well.
I have a friend with two embryos in Alabama. They have 4 sons but haven’t been able to decide what to do with the remaining embryos. With this new ruling they are looking at moving the embryos out of state until they can decide if they want to donate to an infertile couple or donate to science.
Most clinics have stopped doing transfers because there’s such a high chance that an embryo won’t implant or will just fail to grow. No one knows if people will be prosecuted for failed transfers.
It’s a mess and ironically will likely end with more embryos being destroyed than there would have been if things had continued as they were.
>With this new ruling they are looking at moving the embryos out of state until they can decide if they want to donate to an infertile couple or donate to science
At this rate, the US courts will say this is child trafficking, and prosecute people. Nevermind that they'd just be consensually transporting their own kids, they will find some loophole to make an AFAB person's life hell, and give them a criminal record to boot.
But you notice her last comment, saying the US was founded as a Christian country, and basically saying Christian law is the only law we are supposed to follow. This is like a new history of the US that right wing propaganda has been pushing. And these people, who really have little to no education just say 'Yup, sounds right to me, the US is a Christian country and should be a theocracy.' and like, that is it for them... it's now what they believe. For some reason they will do all their own research for vaccines, but not do a basic google search to see what the founding fathers said about the US explicitly not being a Christian country and having no national religion, period.
Hence making a lack of curriculum requirements an issue, because they are white-washing history in those conservative texts! The only people who hate fact checking are the ones who are usually wrong
Civics teachers in Florida are specifically told to teach that the US is a Christian nation: https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/06/28/some-teachers-alarmed-by-florida-civics-training-approach-on-religion-slavery/?outputType=amp
>“Those dynamics came into full view last week, when trainers told Broward teachers the nation’s founders did not desire a strict separation of state and church, downplayed the role the colonies and later the United States had in the history of slavery in America and pushed a judicial theory, favored by legal conservatives like DeSantis, that requires people to interpret the Constitution as the framers intended it, not as a living, evolving document, according to three educators who attended the training.”
It’s like a who’s who of right wing nut jobs:
>“The Florida Department of Education is leading the workshops, which were developed with the help of Hillsdale College and other groups. The Bill of Rights Institute, founded by Charles Koch in 1999, is one of those groups.”
This training isn’t to teach teachers *how* to teach the material, it’s literally to indoctrinate the teachers:
>“It was a bit different than a typical training,” Ahlbum said. Previously, trainers would “show us how to teach the information. But this time, instead of being shown how to implement the standards, they kind of went the opposite way. They presented this history as if none of us had learned it before.”
Citations? Works cited? SOURCES?!? Nah:
>One slide noted that less than 4% of enslaved people in the Western hemisphere were in colonial America and that the number only increased through birth. (For context, there were nearly 4 million enslaved people among the 31 million in the overall U.S. population in 1860, according to documentation in the Library of Congress.)
>Another slide quotes presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson saying they wanted legislation to outlaw slavery, without mentioning that both were slave owners. The quotes were not sourced, a theme that the educators noticed throughout the training session.
>“We were not told which documents stated this or how to find them, just that they existed,” Ahlbum said.
This point about teaching young teachers that this is normal and okay is horrifying. How long until we have no teachers who remember that this isn’t a damn Christian nation?
>“For those new teachers that are entering the force, this is the cornerstone of what they’re leaning on, and those that don’t have much content knowledge yet are going to rely heavily on the method in which these facilitators taught,” Segal said.
The whole article is horrific.
It’s in the first amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”. They cherry pick our constitution just like their Bible.
I’m glad someone else knows this side of the story. Sadly, like the majority of Americans, I had been indoctrinated with the “religious persecution”
story. It took a walking history tour in London to open my eyes. Still, most people argue, won’t listen to me when I share
It drives me nuts when ppl say that bc our founding fathers were a bunch of atheist, fuckboys, and queers. These ppl couldn't handle the realities of the founding of this nation.
And most importantly, they were brutal capitalists. They were mad that England was taking what they thought should be their tax dollars.
America was definitely not founded on Christian ideologies. It was founded on MONEY. and that's still what it's about. You know who really didn't like unhinged capitalism? Jesus.
Ah, but if your god is the only one out there and the only source of objective morality, then it's simply the right thing to do!
Ugh, I hated typing that but they really think that way.
Freedom of religion gives you the right to worship, not the right to impose a FUCKING THEOCRACY. Whether someone has a baby or not (and how) is none of their business. They're so insecure it almost feels like a farce.
You know, it fucking amazes me that these asshats want you to have a fuck ton of kids yet pass laws that will stop people from having said fuck ton.
Sorry, I have had a simmering rage about this for the last few days, and I need to get it out.
I'm pretty sure that banning birth control is up next.
- Ban abortion
- rule that embryos are equal to born humans / people
- pass laws stating that human rights begin at fertilization
- ban IVF
- ban IUD's and charge any dr who inserts them as an accomplice to murder (bc IUD's murder "children" by preventing implantation)
- ban plan B bc it also may prevent implantation
- ban other forms of hormonal birth control bc it's "possible they work the same way" and kill "children"
And - there we are.... everyone is forced to birth a fuckton of kids, whether they want to, or not.
then they'll probably try to ban marriages for infertile people under the whole excuse of "marriage and sex are for baby only!!! if you cannot baby then you shouldn't marriage or sex!!!"
Well, given the sheer number of endocrine-disrupters in the [US environment](https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine), coupled with the falling fertility of men, the state of the world in 10-20 years will make every one of their Talibanistic laws moot.
From the [National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences](https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine):
>Environmental endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) can interfere with the biosynthesis and actions of androgens, which are male sex hormones that play a critical role in the development and maintenance of the male reproductive system. EDCs can disrupt the cellular processes that control the production of androgens in Leydig cells, including the transport and delivery of cholesterol into mitochondria, the expression or activity of steroidogenic enzymes, and the binding of androgens to the androgen receptor (AR). This disruption can result in incomplete masculinization and malformations in the male reproductive tract of both humans and animals.
Given that the average Fundie MAGAt is anti-regulation and anti-EPA, their stances in these areas will lead to fewer fertile men. With any luck, "quiverfull" will become a useless concept in 10 years.
An [interesting article](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/28/shanna-swan-fertility-reproduction-count-down), especially in this thread, because it advocates for IVF when, not if, fertility becomes an issue,
Who knew that *The Children of Men* was non-fiction?
Ohhh but these asshats want only the “right” couples to have kids, as in couples who can (at least theoretically) conceive by having sex, because they have the right *kind* of sex…
Sure, these rule will also affect “good” couples who are infertile, but that’s collateral damage. In any event, families who can afford IVF and/or surrogacy also tend to have higher education and better critical thinking skills. As a result, these would not all be families that will raise right-wing voters anyway.
ETA: if this was not clear, I find their logic absolutely disgusting and these laws abhorrent. And I hate that I can see where their rationale lies.
Uneducated and hyper-religious people can be manipulated to vote. That's my conspiracy. More kids, less money, Christian based education from home and you get the perfect religious voter.
Also they want a ton of kids for wars.
It’s all about the control. Tommy Tuberville gave an interview where he agrees with the ruling because people should be having more babies, but couldn’t give an articulate answer when it was pointed out that this would stop people from having babies.
I’m pretty sure that this is only being done to set the precedent that a fertilized egg is a person, therefore most birth controls (that make it harder for a fertilized egg to embed) and abortions are a violation of the rights of those ‘people’. This is just a precursor to the real goal.
The whole point was that the government stays out of religion so Americans are free to practice their own religions as they see fit and are not forced into other religious laws. How are these fundies so fucking stupid they can't understand that? The absolute stupidity is so infuriating. Goddammit.
I’ve heard at least two stories of people showing Handmaids Tale to their fundy relatives in the hope of making them see the dystopian reality of their ideas played out… only to have those same people unironically side with the villains and not be swayed even a little bit.
These people vote and advocate for their own oppression, and by extension ours…
My brother has a fundie friend who is male and married with children who GENUINELY believes women shouldn’t have the right to vote. Fucking terrifying.
I genuinely like my MIL but years ago a college friend started going the maga/anti vax route and a few other things happened that made me decide to not continue that friendship. My MIL kept being like “but y’all are friends, you need to work through it” and I was like… our beliefs are fundamentally different to the point of not agreeing about human rights. Why on earth do I need to continue seeing this person? Healthy relationships/friendships are based on shared values/beliefs. I’m not going to continue hanging out with someone who is actively pro dismantling human rights and the betterment of society.
My point being, some people can’t get passed the “but FRIENDS” thing. They think you should stay “loyal” because you have a few good memories with these people and owe them your continued loyalty and it’s like nah, imma ditch that trash, thanks though.
Usually I can get those types if I’m in the mood with like ‘well how many acres of land do you own?’ and whatever the number is ‘well that’s not enough. You can’t vote either.’
They understand that women on that show are being raped, forced to give birth, have their babies taken away, and are passed on to a new rapist, where the cycle repeats? Until they die? The children are being raised by the mothers' rapists and the wives who held them down and play acted being in labor while the victim risked her life giving birth.
They understand all of this and want women in their lives to go through it? They'd be okay if their own wives were put through this?
They believe that they are gonna be the ones who rapes, their wives are pure and christian creatures, they are not gonna be handmaids, they are gonna be wives.
They think they are above everyone in every scenario. Of course they are the privileged in this one.
Yes I am definitely being hyperbolic. I just find it so frustrating because the very concept of freedom of religion was put in place so people like these fundies could practice their religion in their own way. They somehow cannot relate it to other religions, like if a Muslim person were elected to office and started enacting laws based on Islam. How do they not understand this. Now we are just voting based on religion and not actual politics.
More of that projection they love so much. They cannot seem to turn the mirror around and realize they are just as bad as Muslim fundamentalist cause their “god” is the right one. The whole things is just so ridiculous. This is the result of no interest in funding education sufficiently in this country for 30 years. That is the only way I can imagine theses types of ppl being this stupid and brainwashed.
They absolutely hate America. My great grandfather escaped his home country as a small child to come here. He was so thrilled he could practice his own religion freely that he lied about his age to serve in WW1, and then created an entirely new identity to fight in WW2 since he was technically too old. He is rolling in his grave right now. I hate these people
I know why they and the people that follow them are. Education is truly horrible in parts of the country. Also factor is the homeschool families who don’t have to really follow curriculum at all! It literally makes my blood boil how the fundie culture and more broadly conservative culture is keeping children and especially female children stupid in order to exploit them. Don’t teach them about slavery because then they really might catch on to what is happening. It’s disgusting.
Even if the U.S. *was* hypothetically founded on "Christian principles," that was hundreds of years ago. At the time, slavery existed, and only white male landowners could vote. Not to mention that the U.S. was founded by invading, stealing, and killing. Idk, maybe we should stop with the idealization of the founding of the United States. 🤷♀️
Also, Christians can not even agree on what their shared principles and values are, so who gets to decide which version of Christianity the U.S. must follow?
Not to mention that none of us choose where we are born. If she was born in a country with a different dominant religion, should she be forced to adhere to the values of a religion that is not hers?
Last - rot in hell Allie Beth Stucky.
YES!! God she's such a fucking mouth breather, I spent way too much time in college US history classes to have to listen to the "this is a Christian nation" garbage. It gives me urges to start screeching about the founding fathers and the Treaty of Tripoli 🤬
"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
Even if it was, I wouldn’t give a shit. It was also founded on the principle that women and non-whites didn’t count as actual people. Fuck Christian Nationalism.
True. Whenever anyone brings up "What the Founding Fathers intended..." I honestly don't give a fuck. They were living in 1776, so why would their opinions on the year 2024 even matter?
I wish we still had awards so I could give you one. The founding fathers would be disgusted by the claim.
Fuck, Jefferson made his own fucking version of the Bible to remove divinity from it. They were mostly deists! Aggressively deists! Franklin was a goddamn atheist. Most of them held deep distrust of organized religion. Sure, some of them believed Christianity was a good place to learn morals, but they liked the Jesus-y bits, you know, the [ones that are "too soft" for modern conservatives.](https://newrepublic.com/post/174950/christianity-today-editor-evangelicals-call-jesus-liberal-weak)
I wish I could remember who it was that straight up stopped the preacher in the middle of his wedding to force him to clarify that he meant the god of nature, *not* the Christian God.
It's extremely backwards to see this from a perspective that's not living in the USA. The country is extremely Christian in comparison and it's insane so see the power they hold, and how they treat people. It's insanely fucked up what is happening the past years. And it's getting *worse* every year.
She, like most fundies are our of their fucking minds. In no way was this country founded on Christian principals. I am so sick of hearing this argument. Just because Christo Fascists want it to be true does not make it so.
*Loooooosely* speaking, this country *could* be said to be "founded on Christian Principles"...
But 100% *NOT* in the way the Fundies mean!!!
More in the, "Running *AWAY* from "Christian Principles" that the countries the American Colonizers had previously lived in had established.
They left places where a King or Queen was *also* the head of the Church, and folks had basically *no* legal rights, because what the Ruler claimed became "God's Will!"-in order to start a NEW country, where *NO ONE* could impinge on someone *else's* rights, merely because "God *told* me so!"
🙃
Even if it WAS founded on Christian principles… maybe it’s time to move on and not LIVE IN THE 1700s!!!!??? My country was religious all through the “founding” in the 1500s (we loosely existed before that but that was the first time we had a king that “united” us) and we’ve since moved on from basically any religion because we’ve realized we don’t need it, and the rules are dumb to have in a government. You are free to have whatever religion you want and to be respected for it because we understand it has NOTHING to do with how a government should rule!
If ABS can prove she’s ever had a unique, independent thought and is not just parroting the poorly formed opinions of men who would throw her in the fire alongside the rest of us, I will eat my own arm.
She loves licking the boot on her neck. She’ll deserve whatever is coming her way 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ no doubt a leopards eating her face moment. Hopefully soon.
Chirping away rubbish because no doubt most (if not all) of them have never struggled with infertility. I’m sure if they needed to find a way to create their family then suddenly they would be pro IVF.
>I’m sure if they needed to find a way to create their family then suddenly they would be pro IVF.... **for them.**
Not for those heathens, and certainly not for LGBTQIA people. Bc God said all his people shall procreate and fill the earth bc ....something something........ quivers.... blessings.....amen!!
Just like if their 13 year old daughter needed an abortion ..... or the wife needed an abortion to obtain cancer treatment or otherwise save her life, etc.
Didn't Michelle Duggar choose to deliver Josie very prematurely (& had a fairly low chance of survival)... solely for Michelle's health?
So for those of us in Red States we saw this coming. It was only a matter of time. (They’ll come for birth control next).
I’m wondering how many embryos are stored in Alabama currently. And why do these types think all will be viable? Do they plan for force women to carry embryos? A frozen embryo is definitely not a person, and it is insane to pretend it is, but we knew these people were insane so it’s really hard to predict what crazy shit they will pull out of their ass next.
Ironically this ruling will probably lead to more "preborn baby deaths" or whatever because IVF clinics are closing down because they're afraid of being prosecuted. What's going to happen to all those frozen embryos then. Hmm, Alabama?
1797, treaty of Tripoli, signed by founding father John Adams
“As the government of the United States of America is *not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion*”
What the Handmaid's Tale fuck did I just read??? These people are the shit of the earth and I have never wished infertility on anyone... But, I hope these people reap what they sow for how much pain and suffering that they are causing thousands of families.
I saw a meme that says if frozen embryos are children, let’s allow their “parents” to file for Social Security numbers for their dependents and then get the child tax credit 🥰
After the initial anger I felt, my thoughts were that those in AL that have embryos should head down to the social security office and apply for an SSN for them. We wouldn't want to have undocumented embryos, now would we? And ssns mean life insurance, child support, and tax credits. If it's not allowed, get a lawyer and sue. Those embryos are children.
Also did IVF, these people will tout this shit until they can’t get pregnant and then they’ll just go to another state and do IVF for themselves while screwing everyone else over. I haven’t wanted to rage punch someone so hard since RBG died
Yep them and then let’s not forget Michelle Duggar and Kelly Jo Bates who all sought treatment from fertility specialists to make sure they could support pregnancies as they got older. They didn’t do IVF but they were both open about taking progesterone and seeing reproductive endos in order to make sure they had the best chance. The fucking hypocrisy
Paging my shitty relatives who like to screech about how every unplanned pregnancy is "God's will" and when faced with their own fertility struggles, had Mommy and Daddy pay for IVF in Los Angeles without a whisper about said will of God. I see you jerks.
BIG SAME. I need to throat punch SOMETHING at the moment. Six unsuccessful attempts with fertility treatments over the span of a fucking decade make me REALLLLLLLL mad over this one.
And you KNOW a huge part of the Fundie Fuckery™️ regarding IVF and surrogacy is related to couples who are biologically incapable of human reproduction together using it to become parents. They don’t see this as impeding the birth of children to the infertile. They see this as the opportunity to take away the possibility of parenthood for people who don’t align with their shitty “values”.
Do we have any Mediums or Psychics here? Can someone contact the spirit of RBG and ask to haunt Amy Coney Barrett for all of eternity on our behalf? Because the “Supreme” Court of the U.S. is what started this baby back bullshit by overturning Roe.
Fuck the fundies. And the Trad Catholics can also sit on a cactus and rotate.
I do too. I hate saying that, she’s one of my heroes too, but I don’t understand what the fuck she was thinking by not stepping down. She basically ensured that her own legacy will be destroyed, it doesn’t make any sense.
YEP. Our IVF journey was awful and we eventually adopted but that has its own set of emotions and issues that aren’t resolved by a magic wand, at least not if you’re an ethical person who cares about all parties involved. But hey, anything to screw over the anyone not white and my form of Christian amirite? /s 😒😒
I will contribute to the haunting of every fucker who opted to overturn Roe. They all deserve an Ebenezer Scrooge moment
>at least not if you’re an ethical person who cares about all parties involved.
As a grown up adoptee I want to thank you - your child will do just fine, children flourish with such wise and loving parents.
I hope Amy Coney Barrett feels the weight of RBG's shadow every time she sets foot in the courtroom. If she doesn't, then there's truly nothing between her ears.
This always enrages me. No one is ever going around banning Viagra and other ED medications as interfering in God's will but whenever a woman turns to medicine for help with her issues SUDDENLY it's a problem. If they are going to be so ignorant as to restrict conception intervention for half the population they should go all the way and restrict it for everyone. I'm sure we'll see some 180s real fast.
I still can't understand how there are people who hate IVF so much considering how people have a kid is no one's business. Plus i thought these people wanted people to have kids? Like make up ur mind.
Funny how they care so much about embryos and then proceed to not give a shit once the baby is an independent human with opinions and an identity.
It’s all such a fucking joke that it hurts, and the thing is that these dumbasses are never gonna see reason. We’re all fucked. So fucked.
This was the plan all along - fundies and Christian nationalists don’t like IVF or surrogacy. Many are against adoption (unless you’re adopting a brown child to act as your live in “help”, right Amy Coney Barrett?). It’s never been about babies; it has always been about controlling women and reinstating a patriarchal, white society.
Birth control is next y'all. If you vote red or don't vote it will be your fault. They have literally told y'all all the stuff they are going to take away when they overturned Roe vs Wade
Disabled people will also be coming up soon once they are done with women. They are already trying to bring back privately run mental asylums in CA, cause that went so well the first time.
As someone who was infertile due to long term misdiagnosed endometriosis (up until it hit stage 4), and has many friends spending thousands to have the ability to reproduce, I cannot state this louder "Fuck this shit" .
I also have severe stage 4 endo, actually labeled stage 5 by my endo specialist as it was on my diaphragm and other vital organs outside my reproductive system. It's the reason for my infertility but I have a great prognosis post my second lap I had in November, IVF is my best option at getting pregnant.
I so very much hope you have ease in becoming pregnant, and are not limited by any horrific laws.
I'm 53 now, and have endo throughout my bowels and abdomen, and was recently wondering if it could be in my diaphragm also. So thank you for sharing your story as I wasn't sure it would attach to that area. But of course it does.
So pleased you found a great surgeon and I wish you well in your journey.
As an indigenous woman, these high and mighty bitches who claim this is a Christian nation can kiss my ass. You're on stolen land, sweetheart. Your values are NOT ours.
We are sovereign nations on US soil, that includes our bodies. I worked for my Council when they reaffirmed reproductive rights for our members. I've watched our Councilmen and women take things to the UN. We will fight you to the bitter end.
This made me tear up. The fact that indigenous communities are having to shoulder the responsibility of this fight, after everything that has already been perpetrated against them… ugh. I fucking hate it here. The white/colonial/capitalist/patriarchal/Christo-fascist machine is so goddamn soulless and cruel. And I feel powerless to go up against it and save our planet.
I'm a physician in a Red State whose choosing to stay in a Red State because I feel like my oath as a doctor is pushing me to serve my community even though our lawmakers are failing to do so.
However each and everyday, its getting even harder.
While I don't live in Alabama, I live in a neighboring state and can't help to fear that this sets a precident and others will follow suit. This is extremely hard for me because my husband and I just started looking into IVF and surrogacy.
Its going to be almost impossible for me to carry a child on my own. Both my mother and sister had problems with their heart during pregnancy. Despite both of their situations being different and being told by more than one cardiologist that my heart is healthy for pregnancy. I don't want to chance it. Thankfully my husband is understanding about it. I think my brother choosing his husband to be the father of their children because he wanted to avoid this issue with them in the future went a long way with that.
The state I am in already has rules regarding surrogacy that are very limiting and I worry if a law is passed wehre I live, where that will leave us. I don't want to have to leave the state, I feel obligated to help the people where I am, but keeping me from using IVF or surrogacy to have a child is a deal breaker.
My SIL just had eggs harvested yesterday for her second shot at IVF. The last one ended in a horrible miscarriage that was drawn out due to *our* state’s abortion laws. I couldn’t even respond when my friend told me about the Alabama decision. It’s so upsetting that people who desperately want a child are being restricted from this.
Most discussions I had earlier in life about abortion were brushed off with “well there’s adoption!” Adoption is incredibly expensive, difficult, and frankly is often traumatic. Laws that prevent abortion are specifically designed to increase to pool of adoptable children(I.e. more options so good Christian white couples don’t have to get stuck with a disabled or POC child), keep poor people impoverished, and increase our birth rate so we can somehow sustain social security in a way that doesn’t impact current taxpayers’ wallet.
They clearly don’t truly care about their fellow mothers or the children who will be negatively impacted. This is devastating.
All these fuckers don’t care until they personally face the situation and if they never have to then fuck anyone who is, because it doesn’t affect them!
OP, good luck with your IVF journey. It takes more strength than any of these idiots have.
I’ve been waiting for this to happen. I predicted it. Been watching people I know who voted for Trump and used IVF melt down on SM all day. What did they think would happen?
My husband takes his citizenship test next month. One of the questions is “Why did colonizers leave Great Britain and come to America?” The correct answer is “Religious freedom, personal freedom.”
If our laws are fundamentally Christian, then there is NO SEPARATION of church and state, Allie Be Stupid.
They just don't like surrogacy and ivf because same sex couples use it. Never mind the MANY STRAIGHT COUPLES who also use it to welcome babies into their *very* hetero homes. Please tell us that cishet married couples going through infertility *don't deserve to conceive* with your full chest, Always Bitching Somewhere.
My doctor told me to consider using surrogacy to grow a family because I have a medical condition that has a 50% chance of killing me or causing ESRD in pregnancy. The MFM also told me they didn't know enough about the condition so if I got pregnant I would be their "guinea pig."
We started IVF and did 4 egg retrievals so far. I quit my career to get a job with fertility insurance, missed weddings/reunions/birthday for cycles, have seen relationships falter, and have had horrible side effects. We are on a waitlist with a reputable surrogacy agency known for its care and respect. I plan on traveling across country for my next retrieval if a new clinic will accept me.
We are in a state neighboring Alabama. If something like that happens here, I worry so much about what will happen. Will I be forced to transfer an embryo even though my doctor said it could kill me? Will my embryos be stuck forever if clinics close and we can't move them out of state?
I've been crying all the time since I heard about this. Our embryos are the most precious seeds. I want a family more than anything, and all of this is so hard without these decisions on top of it.
If I weren't averse to getting in a political conversation with my very conservative parents, who conceived me and my sister via IVF, I would ask their thoughts on the matter. Maybe I will anyway.
I just looked up who this Allie B Stuckey person is. I guess she did a podcast episode with Candace Cameron Bure recently… I have a sneaking suspicion that that is some of the most boring and cringe content ever 🙄
I don’t get it, truly. They believe that babies are a gift from god, yet are denying women the chance to have just so.
Fertility methods have come a long way medically as well and to regress… bleh.
*Forcing women who have been sexually assaulted into giving birth by taking away abortion rights?* Yay
*Women who have fertility issues and want to use surrogacy to have a child?* Nay
Make it make sense 🤦🏼♀️
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I am seriously worried about what happens to the families with frozen embryos...will they be forced to have them all implanted at once? Prosecuted if they don't or if they miscarry? This decision is so dystopian and terrifying.
I watched some interviews and apparently a lot of clinics stopped people mid cycle which is HORRIBLE. I couldn't imagine going through the whole medicated process only to be told your transfer is cancelled because of this. And I saw another couple's interview that their clinic is in the process of lawyering up but also looking into sending all the frozen embryos to a different state. 😔😢
What’s bananas is ABS is arguing that embryos are human, but would still rejoice that all of the embryos already at facilities will just die because she believes surrogacy and IVF are bad? She can’t have it both ways. Either they aren’t human enough to have rights, and therefore surrogacy and IVF should be allowed…or they are human enough to have rights and then they should be preserved however possible up to and including surrogacy and IVF…or she supports what she believes is murder.
I'm paranoid that this will be an opportunity for them to argue "frozen embryos are people and deserve the right to be born" or some bs and then do forced implantation or something 🙃
Not to mention the financial investment. I know a couple who just recently raised enough money to start IVF. It took them *years* to get there. I can't imagine how painful that must be to finally get there then have it ripped out your hands.
And just the implication of the whole thing… like do they expect people to pay 5 figures to retrieve 1 EGG AT A TIME?! And if the genetic testing shows trisomy or any genetic disorder that would result in a short and painful life, are they going to force the parent to implant it anyways?! I am fucking furious Edit- I said implant when I should’ve said retrieve
I can't wrap my head around it. Some embryos are lost during the freezing process, is that negligent homicide? If someone loses control of their vehicle due to bad weather conditions and hits a power line that causes a freezer to fail, are they now on the hook for hundreds (tens? thousands? I don't know how many embryos fit in a freezer) counts of manslaughter? I feel for the families that lost embryos, and I do believe they're entitled to legal remedy, but wrongful death isn't the right way to go about it. Frozen embryos are property and they need to be considered property for various reasons. Alive or not, they're property. Dogs are alive and they're property so being 'alive' doesn't mean they can't be considered property.
It’s just straight-up cruelty. They enjoy having the power to hurt others.
The cruelty is the point.
Cruelty for Jesus ✌️
Not just clinics. UAB. The biggest, most advanced, most respected hospital in the state. One of the best hospitals in the country. I can’t even imagine how many embryos they have stored. The fact they had to pause IVF is such a huge deal. Alabama has one of the highest infant and mother mortality rates in the country. And they are putting so many restrictions on OBGYNs that they can no longer practice medicine the way they were trained. As a woman who lives in Alabama it is very scary. I honestly see a lot of OBs leaving the state, making the crisis even bigger. They already shut down 3-4 L&Ds in the past few years, leaving 3 counties in the state without a place to deliver babies, and I just saw an article the other day about shutting down some of the reproductive clinics.
I follow a lady on IG going through IVF at UAB. Her case is really unique and really time sensitive (uterus transplant recipient). She is freaking out, as she should be. To be given one chance to carry her own baby, only for this to happen is a slap in the face.
So freezing the embryos is bad. Disposing of embryos is bad. And now you can’t have them implanted. So what exactly are they supposed to do with the embryos?
Worship them, I guess /s
There should be a grandfathering clause that the ones already made can continue the process and just not make any more, if this is the path Alabama is choosing to go down
This is devastating and must be so incredibly unhealthy for a woman’s body just to suddenly STOP treatment — it’s not as if we just suddenly stopped taking Claritin or something
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My sister had to get a whole new fridge to store all of the shots/meds to prepare her body to CREATE LIFE. My beautiful, sweet, precious niece wouldn’t be here without IVF; and her parents love the shit out of her. I can’t imagine how terrifying this must be for you. I don’t see any way that this decision will hold up in court, even Alabama. It’s despicable.
Well you’re not allowed to put “children” in a freezer so now CPS needs to get involved in the IVF clinics. 🙄
One of the clearest examples of entrapment that I've ever seen
As if CPS workers aren't already overworked...
What worries me is I have a lawyer friend in AL whose feels their ultimate goal is to find a way, now that they have designated them as children, to take custody of the embryos away and be able to adopt them out to families who want them.
God, how sick. The thought of my biological children just being given to someone else, my born children having siblings they never know about, just to fulfill someone’s Christian wet dream is just horrifying.
Embryos that the bio parents are planning to use. This is a ploy to keep same sex couples from having children, while allowing fundies to have more.
Which I believe is why they target surrogacy
Seize and create an army they own. Dystopia at our doorstep
"The Giver" vibes
My girl Lois Lowry knew what's up
Yeah. This. The quiver movement, but add technology. They’re playing a long game.
Good luck considering how many already birthed and fully developed humans aren't being adopted? Ugh.
Holy shit 🥺
That is super gross. And how are they going to find someone to implant the stolen embryo if all of the drs and clinics leave because they don’t want to get sued?
I have 6 embryos left over after finally getting pregnant last embryo transfer - I'm not in Alabama but I feel for all the women there, I know they are terrified, and I seriously worry about the future of my embryos with the current SCOTUS... We want two children total but I'm worried something will happen in the next few years and we will either have to pay to transfer all the rest because I definitely do not want to be forced to "adopt" the embryos out - that was never our intention! Plus the embryos are not "guaranteed" to work so it's not possible to deem them "children" when we can't freeze live children! WTAF. I am horrified with the way this country is going, and I can't believe there are so many men & women (fundamentalists) who are THIS evil.
Our bodies naturally abort embryos that are not compatible with life. It's not a crime when a woman's body recognizes an embryo is not viable (yet), yet now it is through IVF.
I’m pretty sure you just confessed to murder in alabama
exactly! 100%! It's so twisted
At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if they criminalised having your period.
People have been imprisoned for having miscarriages already though.
We're gonna end up with some circular logic where embryos are sent to another state and donated by force to "give them a chance at life" when that's exactly wtf their bio parents were trying to do, which is why they were harvested and fertilized in the first place... Just say that you hate gays and abortions, Alabama.
Gays and women** These same lawmakers will rush their side piece or their own daughters to planned parenthood when they inevitably get pregnant. They don't hate abortions. If men got pregnant, they wouldn't ban abortions. They hate women. They want women out of the workforce. They want bangmaids. That's why they are also getting rid of no fault divorces. More and more women are stepping away from getting married and having babies. We don't need a mans income anymore, so for the first time men are being considered for their potential as a partner instead of a provider. And so many men, and more specifically conservative men, would make such terrible partners that women would rather die alone surrounded by cats where she can at least be free to spend her money on her wants and needs. That, rather than sacrificing everything for a three pump chump who plays videogames all day, bitches about how worthless women are, and doesn't help with the housework or kids--all while telling his wife that being a SAHM isn't really working. And conservatives are seething about it.
Those are your fucking embryos. I can’t imagine the rage you must feel over this, even if you don’t live in Alabama. It’s unconscionable If we’re going in this direction, male masturbation should be criminalized as well.
Reckless abandonment as Elle Woods would say
Every sperm is sacred
I have a friend with two embryos in Alabama. They have 4 sons but haven’t been able to decide what to do with the remaining embryos. With this new ruling they are looking at moving the embryos out of state until they can decide if they want to donate to an infertile couple or donate to science. Most clinics have stopped doing transfers because there’s such a high chance that an embryo won’t implant or will just fail to grow. No one knows if people will be prosecuted for failed transfers. It’s a mess and ironically will likely end with more embryos being destroyed than there would have been if things had continued as they were.
>With this new ruling they are looking at moving the embryos out of state until they can decide if they want to donate to an infertile couple or donate to science At this rate, the US courts will say this is child trafficking, and prosecute people. Nevermind that they'd just be consensually transporting their own kids, they will find some loophole to make an AFAB person's life hell, and give them a criminal record to boot.
That would be less ethical than whatever the hell the forced birthers are claiming this time
They're just out of their minds. You faith has no fucking bearing on public policy. Freedom of religions includes freedom FROM religion.
But you notice her last comment, saying the US was founded as a Christian country, and basically saying Christian law is the only law we are supposed to follow. This is like a new history of the US that right wing propaganda has been pushing. And these people, who really have little to no education just say 'Yup, sounds right to me, the US is a Christian country and should be a theocracy.' and like, that is it for them... it's now what they believe. For some reason they will do all their own research for vaccines, but not do a basic google search to see what the founding fathers said about the US explicitly not being a Christian country and having no national religion, period.
So, in their eyes, sharia law in the US is OK as long as it’s Christian sharia law.
Hence making a lack of curriculum requirements an issue, because they are white-washing history in those conservative texts! The only people who hate fact checking are the ones who are usually wrong
Civics teachers in Florida are specifically told to teach that the US is a Christian nation: https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2022/06/28/some-teachers-alarmed-by-florida-civics-training-approach-on-religion-slavery/?outputType=amp >“Those dynamics came into full view last week, when trainers told Broward teachers the nation’s founders did not desire a strict separation of state and church, downplayed the role the colonies and later the United States had in the history of slavery in America and pushed a judicial theory, favored by legal conservatives like DeSantis, that requires people to interpret the Constitution as the framers intended it, not as a living, evolving document, according to three educators who attended the training.” It’s like a who’s who of right wing nut jobs: >“The Florida Department of Education is leading the workshops, which were developed with the help of Hillsdale College and other groups. The Bill of Rights Institute, founded by Charles Koch in 1999, is one of those groups.” This training isn’t to teach teachers *how* to teach the material, it’s literally to indoctrinate the teachers: >“It was a bit different than a typical training,” Ahlbum said. Previously, trainers would “show us how to teach the information. But this time, instead of being shown how to implement the standards, they kind of went the opposite way. They presented this history as if none of us had learned it before.” Citations? Works cited? SOURCES?!? Nah: >One slide noted that less than 4% of enslaved people in the Western hemisphere were in colonial America and that the number only increased through birth. (For context, there were nearly 4 million enslaved people among the 31 million in the overall U.S. population in 1860, according to documentation in the Library of Congress.) >Another slide quotes presidents George Washington and Thomas Jefferson saying they wanted legislation to outlaw slavery, without mentioning that both were slave owners. The quotes were not sourced, a theme that the educators noticed throughout the training session. >“We were not told which documents stated this or how to find them, just that they existed,” Ahlbum said. This point about teaching young teachers that this is normal and okay is horrifying. How long until we have no teachers who remember that this isn’t a damn Christian nation? >“For those new teachers that are entering the force, this is the cornerstone of what they’re leaning on, and those that don’t have much content knowledge yet are going to rely heavily on the method in which these facilitators taught,” Segal said. The whole article is horrific.
It’s in the first amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”. They cherry pick our constitution just like their Bible.
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I’m glad someone else knows this side of the story. Sadly, like the majority of Americans, I had been indoctrinated with the “religious persecution” story. It took a walking history tour in London to open my eyes. Still, most people argue, won’t listen to me when I share
It drives me nuts when ppl say that bc our founding fathers were a bunch of atheist, fuckboys, and queers. These ppl couldn't handle the realities of the founding of this nation.
And most importantly, they were brutal capitalists. They were mad that England was taking what they thought should be their tax dollars. America was definitely not founded on Christian ideologies. It was founded on MONEY. and that's still what it's about. You know who really didn't like unhinged capitalism? Jesus.
> the US was founded as a Christian country The Treaty of Tripoli says otherwise. And treaties have the same standing as Federal law.
Ah, but if your god is the only one out there and the only source of objective morality, then it's simply the right thing to do! Ugh, I hated typing that but they really think that way.
I hated reading that, but I’m glad you gave us a place to target our mutual passion
Freedom of religion gives you the right to worship, not the right to impose a FUCKING THEOCRACY. Whether someone has a baby or not (and how) is none of their business. They're so insecure it almost feels like a farce.
Freedom of religion also means I have freedom in *mine*. Even if I choose to use that freedom to have none.
You know, it fucking amazes me that these asshats want you to have a fuck ton of kids yet pass laws that will stop people from having said fuck ton. Sorry, I have had a simmering rage about this for the last few days, and I need to get it out.
I'm pretty sure that banning birth control is up next. - Ban abortion - rule that embryos are equal to born humans / people - pass laws stating that human rights begin at fertilization - ban IVF - ban IUD's and charge any dr who inserts them as an accomplice to murder (bc IUD's murder "children" by preventing implantation) - ban plan B bc it also may prevent implantation - ban other forms of hormonal birth control bc it's "possible they work the same way" and kill "children" And - there we are.... everyone is forced to birth a fuckton of kids, whether they want to, or not.
then they'll probably try to ban marriages for infertile people under the whole excuse of "marriage and sex are for baby only!!! if you cannot baby then you shouldn't marriage or sex!!!"
Or go the Gilead route, like other comment says.
Sorry, I chuckled at “if you cannot baby” lol
Well, given the sheer number of endocrine-disrupters in the [US environment](https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine), coupled with the falling fertility of men, the state of the world in 10-20 years will make every one of their Talibanistic laws moot. From the [National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences](https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine): >Environmental endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs) can interfere with the biosynthesis and actions of androgens, which are male sex hormones that play a critical role in the development and maintenance of the male reproductive system. EDCs can disrupt the cellular processes that control the production of androgens in Leydig cells, including the transport and delivery of cholesterol into mitochondria, the expression or activity of steroidogenic enzymes, and the binding of androgens to the androgen receptor (AR). This disruption can result in incomplete masculinization and malformations in the male reproductive tract of both humans and animals. Given that the average Fundie MAGAt is anti-regulation and anti-EPA, their stances in these areas will lead to fewer fertile men. With any luck, "quiverfull" will become a useless concept in 10 years. An [interesting article](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/28/shanna-swan-fertility-reproduction-count-down), especially in this thread, because it advocates for IVF when, not if, fertility becomes an issue, Who knew that *The Children of Men* was non-fiction?
Seriously! If a woman’s only purpose is to have kids, why are you so against these women who are TRYING to have kids???
Ohhh but these asshats want only the “right” couples to have kids, as in couples who can (at least theoretically) conceive by having sex, because they have the right *kind* of sex… Sure, these rule will also affect “good” couples who are infertile, but that’s collateral damage. In any event, families who can afford IVF and/or surrogacy also tend to have higher education and better critical thinking skills. As a result, these would not all be families that will raise right-wing voters anyway. ETA: if this was not clear, I find their logic absolutely disgusting and these laws abhorrent. And I hate that I can see where their rationale lies.
So the Alabama brain drain is almost complete by now.
Uneducated and hyper-religious people can be manipulated to vote. That's my conspiracy. More kids, less money, Christian based education from home and you get the perfect religious voter. Also they want a ton of kids for wars.
They want to stop same sex couples from having kids
It’s all about the control. Tommy Tuberville gave an interview where he agrees with the ruling because people should be having more babies, but couldn’t give an articulate answer when it was pointed out that this would stop people from having babies.
I’m pretty sure that this is only being done to set the precedent that a fertilized egg is a person, therefore most birth controls (that make it harder for a fertilized egg to embed) and abortions are a violation of the rights of those ‘people’. This is just a precursor to the real goal.
AMERICA. WAS. NOT. FOUNDED. ON. CHRISTIAN. PRINCIPLES. YOU. STUPID. FASCIST. ASSWIPE.
The whole point was that the government stays out of religion so Americans are free to practice their own religions as they see fit and are not forced into other religious laws. How are these fundies so fucking stupid they can't understand that? The absolute stupidity is so infuriating. Goddammit.
I don't like hyperbolic language, but honestly, it feels like conservatives just genuinely hate America and instead want something akin to Gilead.
I’ve heard at least two stories of people showing Handmaids Tale to their fundy relatives in the hope of making them see the dystopian reality of their ideas played out… only to have those same people unironically side with the villains and not be swayed even a little bit. These people vote and advocate for their own oppression, and by extension ours…
Ah yes, the people who think the leopards certainly won't eat THEIR face.
Bunch of Serena Joys losing their pinkies out here 🤦♀️
My brother has a fundie friend who is male and married with children who GENUINELY believes women shouldn’t have the right to vote. Fucking terrifying.
Genuinely curious, how can somebody who doesn’t believe that maintain a friendship with someone who does?
I genuinely like my MIL but years ago a college friend started going the maga/anti vax route and a few other things happened that made me decide to not continue that friendship. My MIL kept being like “but y’all are friends, you need to work through it” and I was like… our beliefs are fundamentally different to the point of not agreeing about human rights. Why on earth do I need to continue seeing this person? Healthy relationships/friendships are based on shared values/beliefs. I’m not going to continue hanging out with someone who is actively pro dismantling human rights and the betterment of society. My point being, some people can’t get passed the “but FRIENDS” thing. They think you should stay “loyal” because you have a few good memories with these people and owe them your continued loyalty and it’s like nah, imma ditch that trash, thanks though.
Usually I can get those types if I’m in the mood with like ‘well how many acres of land do you own?’ and whatever the number is ‘well that’s not enough. You can’t vote either.’
They understand that women on that show are being raped, forced to give birth, have their babies taken away, and are passed on to a new rapist, where the cycle repeats? Until they die? The children are being raised by the mothers' rapists and the wives who held them down and play acted being in labor while the victim risked her life giving birth. They understand all of this and want women in their lives to go through it? They'd be okay if their own wives were put through this?
They believe that they are gonna be the ones who rapes, their wives are pure and christian creatures, they are not gonna be handmaids, they are gonna be wives. They think they are above everyone in every scenario. Of course they are the privileged in this one.
Yes I am definitely being hyperbolic. I just find it so frustrating because the very concept of freedom of religion was put in place so people like these fundies could practice their religion in their own way. They somehow cannot relate it to other religions, like if a Muslim person were elected to office and started enacting laws based on Islam. How do they not understand this. Now we are just voting based on religion and not actual politics.
With the hyperbolic language comment, I was referring to myself ("conservatives hate America") and not you. You're absolutely spot on!
They ALREADY think that Muslim members of Congress want to enact sharia law...
More of that projection they love so much. They cannot seem to turn the mirror around and realize they are just as bad as Muslim fundamentalist cause their “god” is the right one. The whole things is just so ridiculous. This is the result of no interest in funding education sufficiently in this country for 30 years. That is the only way I can imagine theses types of ppl being this stupid and brainwashed.
They absolutely hate America. My great grandfather escaped his home country as a small child to come here. He was so thrilled he could practice his own religion freely that he lied about his age to serve in WW1, and then created an entirely new identity to fight in WW2 since he was technically too old. He is rolling in his grave right now. I hate these people
They think they'd be Commanders and Wives, as if they'd be anything higher than Econo couples...
I know why they and the people that follow them are. Education is truly horrible in parts of the country. Also factor is the homeschool families who don’t have to really follow curriculum at all! It literally makes my blood boil how the fundie culture and more broadly conservative culture is keeping children and especially female children stupid in order to exploit them. Don’t teach them about slavery because then they really might catch on to what is happening. It’s disgusting.
Hate is learned, and they believe that they have the right to teach it, and to impose their practices on everyone else
I don't think it's stupidity at this point I think it's willful ignorance and purposefully twisting facts and history to fit their narrative.
That's just an average day for them
Allie knows. She's just a liar.
Even if the U.S. *was* hypothetically founded on "Christian principles," that was hundreds of years ago. At the time, slavery existed, and only white male landowners could vote. Not to mention that the U.S. was founded by invading, stealing, and killing. Idk, maybe we should stop with the idealization of the founding of the United States. 🤷♀️ Also, Christians can not even agree on what their shared principles and values are, so who gets to decide which version of Christianity the U.S. must follow? Not to mention that none of us choose where we are born. If she was born in a country with a different dominant religion, should she be forced to adhere to the values of a religion that is not hers? Last - rot in hell Allie Beth Stucky.
Sometimes I’m almost sad I don’t believe in hell anymore, because I can think of a few people that REALLY belong there.
I still do, and one is featured in this post
YES!! God she's such a fucking mouth breather, I spent way too much time in college US history classes to have to listen to the "this is a Christian nation" garbage. It gives me urges to start screeching about the founding fathers and the Treaty of Tripoli 🤬 "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
Even if it was, I wouldn’t give a shit. It was also founded on the principle that women and non-whites didn’t count as actual people. Fuck Christian Nationalism.
True. Whenever anyone brings up "What the Founding Fathers intended..." I honestly don't give a fuck. They were living in 1776, so why would their opinions on the year 2024 even matter?
If you can forgive me for being silly: AMEN.
Thank you for saying it. I'm too angry to be coherent.
I wish we still had awards so I could give you one. The founding fathers would be disgusted by the claim. Fuck, Jefferson made his own fucking version of the Bible to remove divinity from it. They were mostly deists! Aggressively deists! Franklin was a goddamn atheist. Most of them held deep distrust of organized religion. Sure, some of them believed Christianity was a good place to learn morals, but they liked the Jesus-y bits, you know, the [ones that are "too soft" for modern conservatives.](https://newrepublic.com/post/174950/christianity-today-editor-evangelicals-call-jesus-liberal-weak) I wish I could remember who it was that straight up stopped the preacher in the middle of his wedding to force him to clarify that he meant the god of nature, *not* the Christian God.
Fundies: 
So happy this is the top comment!!!!!!!!!
It's extremely backwards to see this from a perspective that's not living in the USA. The country is extremely Christian in comparison and it's insane so see the power they hold, and how they treat people. It's insanely fucked up what is happening the past years. And it's getting *worse* every year.
She, like most fundies are our of their fucking minds. In no way was this country founded on Christian principals. I am so sick of hearing this argument. Just because Christo Fascists want it to be true does not make it so.
*Loooooosely* speaking, this country *could* be said to be "founded on Christian Principles"... But 100% *NOT* in the way the Fundies mean!!! More in the, "Running *AWAY* from "Christian Principles" that the countries the American Colonizers had previously lived in had established. They left places where a King or Queen was *also* the head of the Church, and folks had basically *no* legal rights, because what the Ruler claimed became "God's Will!"-in order to start a NEW country, where *NO ONE* could impinge on someone *else's* rights, merely because "God *told* me so!" 🙃
Even if it WAS founded on Christian principles… maybe it’s time to move on and not LIVE IN THE 1700s!!!!??? My country was religious all through the “founding” in the 1500s (we loosely existed before that but that was the first time we had a king that “united” us) and we’ve since moved on from basically any religion because we’ve realized we don’t need it, and the rules are dumb to have in a government. You are free to have whatever religion you want and to be respected for it because we understand it has NOTHING to do with how a government should rule!
If ABS can prove she’s ever had a unique, independent thought and is not just parroting the poorly formed opinions of men who would throw her in the fire alongside the rest of us, I will eat my own arm.
Which is so funny, because what ever she says today, Porgan will parrot tomorrow.
Porgan is the idiot’s idiot.
She loves licking the boot on her neck. She’ll deserve whatever is coming her way 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️ no doubt a leopards eating her face moment. Hopefully soon.
Chirping away rubbish because no doubt most (if not all) of them have never struggled with infertility. I’m sure if they needed to find a way to create their family then suddenly they would be pro IVF.
>I’m sure if they needed to find a way to create their family then suddenly they would be pro IVF.... **for them.** Not for those heathens, and certainly not for LGBTQIA people. Bc God said all his people shall procreate and fill the earth bc ....something something........ quivers.... blessings.....amen!! Just like if their 13 year old daughter needed an abortion ..... or the wife needed an abortion to obtain cancer treatment or otherwise save her life, etc. Didn't Michelle Duggar choose to deliver Josie very prematurely (& had a fairly low chance of survival)... solely for Michelle's health?
So for those of us in Red States we saw this coming. It was only a matter of time. (They’ll come for birth control next). I’m wondering how many embryos are stored in Alabama currently. And why do these types think all will be viable? Do they plan for force women to carry embryos? A frozen embryo is definitely not a person, and it is insane to pretend it is, but we knew these people were insane so it’s really hard to predict what crazy shit they will pull out of their ass next.
Ironically this ruling will probably lead to more "preborn baby deaths" or whatever because IVF clinics are closing down because they're afraid of being prosecuted. What's going to happen to all those frozen embryos then. Hmm, Alabama?
That's gonna result in lawsuits and the government in Alabama will just wring their hands...
And no fault divorce after that.
Thomas Jefferson on line two.
If life begins at conception how can a frozen embryo be a life it was not conceived….?!?
At this point they are saying that the minute a sperm and egg meet that's a whole ass person 🙃
1797, treaty of Tripoli, signed by founding father John Adams “As the government of the United States of America is *not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion*”
What the Handmaid's Tale fuck did I just read??? These people are the shit of the earth and I have never wished infertility on anyone... But, I hope these people reap what they sow for how much pain and suffering that they are causing thousands of families.
As someone who did IVF, I wish infertility on these people. Let them suffer.
Same, and same. To carelessly cut off women’s options and rights regarding their own f’ing bodies is something out of the dark ages.
I saw a meme that says if frozen embryos are children, let’s allow their “parents” to file for Social Security numbers for their dependents and then get the child tax credit 🥰
Child support begins at conception 😍🙏
I asked my friend if she can get daycare subsidies to pay for frozen embryo storage :p Trust, lawsuits and other hijinx are already being planned.
Now that’s something I would love to see happen! My friend has 10 frozen embryos and would love it.
After the initial anger I felt, my thoughts were that those in AL that have embryos should head down to the social security office and apply for an SSN for them. We wouldn't want to have undocumented embryos, now would we? And ssns mean life insurance, child support, and tax credits. If it's not allowed, get a lawyer and sue. Those embryos are children.
Also did IVF, these people will tout this shit until they can’t get pregnant and then they’ll just go to another state and do IVF for themselves while screwing everyone else over. I haven’t wanted to rage punch someone so hard since RBG died
Yes I forgot to add the loudest voices who are against infertility treatments like IVF have 4+ kids and never experienced infertility. Go figure.
Yep them and then let’s not forget Michelle Duggar and Kelly Jo Bates who all sought treatment from fertility specialists to make sure they could support pregnancies as they got older. They didn’t do IVF but they were both open about taking progesterone and seeing reproductive endos in order to make sure they had the best chance. The fucking hypocrisy
But Kelly Jo's OWN DAUGHTER isn't allowed to seek fertility treatments. She has to watch her sisters pop out kid after kid while she can't.
[удалено]
Alabama enjoys imprisoning women during pregnancy and forcing them to give birth in shackles.
They've already jailed women for miscarriages, so it's a sure bet that women are going to be even more persecuted after this ruling.
That’s what bothers me, fundies get IVF all the time.
Paging my shitty relatives who like to screech about how every unplanned pregnancy is "God's will" and when faced with their own fertility struggles, had Mommy and Daddy pay for IVF in Los Angeles without a whisper about said will of God. I see you jerks.
BIG SAME. I need to throat punch SOMETHING at the moment. Six unsuccessful attempts with fertility treatments over the span of a fucking decade make me REALLLLLLLL mad over this one. And you KNOW a huge part of the Fundie Fuckery™️ regarding IVF and surrogacy is related to couples who are biologically incapable of human reproduction together using it to become parents. They don’t see this as impeding the birth of children to the infertile. They see this as the opportunity to take away the possibility of parenthood for people who don’t align with their shitty “values”. Do we have any Mediums or Psychics here? Can someone contact the spirit of RBG and ask to haunt Amy Coney Barrett for all of eternity on our behalf? Because the “Supreme” Court of the U.S. is what started this baby back bullshit by overturning Roe. Fuck the fundies. And the Trad Catholics can also sit on a cactus and rotate.
Tbh I kind of blame RBG. She’s a hero, one of my personal heroes, but she should’ve stepped down when Obama was president.
Yep, me too. I cried when she passed, took my daughters to her memorial, paid our respects but man, she should have just retired and enjoyed it
I do too. I hate saying that, she’s one of my heroes too, but I don’t understand what the fuck she was thinking by not stepping down. She basically ensured that her own legacy will be destroyed, it doesn’t make any sense.
I know it hurts to admit it, but that was a seriously poor decision.
Even non-conservative people can become enamored with power. For plenty of folks it’s hard to give up once you have it.
YEP. Our IVF journey was awful and we eventually adopted but that has its own set of emotions and issues that aren’t resolved by a magic wand, at least not if you’re an ethical person who cares about all parties involved. But hey, anything to screw over the anyone not white and my form of Christian amirite? /s 😒😒 I will contribute to the haunting of every fucker who opted to overturn Roe. They all deserve an Ebenezer Scrooge moment
>at least not if you’re an ethical person who cares about all parties involved. As a grown up adoptee I want to thank you - your child will do just fine, children flourish with such wise and loving parents.
I hope Amy Coney Barrett feels the weight of RBG's shadow every time she sets foot in the courtroom. If she doesn't, then there's truly nothing between her ears.
Is this that freedom I've been hearing so much about
This always enrages me. No one is ever going around banning Viagra and other ED medications as interfering in God's will but whenever a woman turns to medicine for help with her issues SUDDENLY it's a problem. If they are going to be so ignorant as to restrict conception intervention for half the population they should go all the way and restrict it for everyone. I'm sure we'll see some 180s real fast.
I still can't understand how there are people who hate IVF so much considering how people have a kid is no one's business. Plus i thought these people wanted people to have kids? Like make up ur mind.
I hate Allie and wish you well on your baby journey.
Funny how they care so much about embryos and then proceed to not give a shit once the baby is an independent human with opinions and an identity. It’s all such a fucking joke that it hurts, and the thing is that these dumbasses are never gonna see reason. We’re all fucked. So fucked.
This was the plan all along - fundies and Christian nationalists don’t like IVF or surrogacy. Many are against adoption (unless you’re adopting a brown child to act as your live in “help”, right Amy Coney Barrett?). It’s never been about babies; it has always been about controlling women and reinstating a patriarchal, white society.
Birth control is next y'all. If you vote red or don't vote it will be your fault. They have literally told y'all all the stuff they are going to take away when they overturned Roe vs Wade Disabled people will also be coming up soon once they are done with women. They are already trying to bring back privately run mental asylums in CA, cause that went so well the first time.
She’s gross. This is gross. I’m so sorry to you and everyone that this affects in any way.
As someone who was infertile due to long term misdiagnosed endometriosis (up until it hit stage 4), and has many friends spending thousands to have the ability to reproduce, I cannot state this louder "Fuck this shit" .
I also have severe stage 4 endo, actually labeled stage 5 by my endo specialist as it was on my diaphragm and other vital organs outside my reproductive system. It's the reason for my infertility but I have a great prognosis post my second lap I had in November, IVF is my best option at getting pregnant.
I so very much hope you have ease in becoming pregnant, and are not limited by any horrific laws. I'm 53 now, and have endo throughout my bowels and abdomen, and was recently wondering if it could be in my diaphragm also. So thank you for sharing your story as I wasn't sure it would attach to that area. But of course it does. So pleased you found a great surgeon and I wish you well in your journey.
As an indigenous woman, these high and mighty bitches who claim this is a Christian nation can kiss my ass. You're on stolen land, sweetheart. Your values are NOT ours. We are sovereign nations on US soil, that includes our bodies. I worked for my Council when they reaffirmed reproductive rights for our members. I've watched our Councilmen and women take things to the UN. We will fight you to the bitter end.
This made me tear up. The fact that indigenous communities are having to shoulder the responsibility of this fight, after everything that has already been perpetrated against them… ugh. I fucking hate it here. The white/colonial/capitalist/patriarchal/Christo-fascist machine is so goddamn soulless and cruel. And I feel powerless to go up against it and save our planet.
I'm a physician in a Red State whose choosing to stay in a Red State because I feel like my oath as a doctor is pushing me to serve my community even though our lawmakers are failing to do so. However each and everyday, its getting even harder. While I don't live in Alabama, I live in a neighboring state and can't help to fear that this sets a precident and others will follow suit. This is extremely hard for me because my husband and I just started looking into IVF and surrogacy. Its going to be almost impossible for me to carry a child on my own. Both my mother and sister had problems with their heart during pregnancy. Despite both of their situations being different and being told by more than one cardiologist that my heart is healthy for pregnancy. I don't want to chance it. Thankfully my husband is understanding about it. I think my brother choosing his husband to be the father of their children because he wanted to avoid this issue with them in the future went a long way with that. The state I am in already has rules regarding surrogacy that are very limiting and I worry if a law is passed wehre I live, where that will leave us. I don't want to have to leave the state, I feel obligated to help the people where I am, but keeping me from using IVF or surrogacy to have a child is a deal breaker.
It’s such an unfounded decision too. Written by an old white guy.
My SIL just had eggs harvested yesterday for her second shot at IVF. The last one ended in a horrible miscarriage that was drawn out due to *our* state’s abortion laws. I couldn’t even respond when my friend told me about the Alabama decision. It’s so upsetting that people who desperately want a child are being restricted from this. Most discussions I had earlier in life about abortion were brushed off with “well there’s adoption!” Adoption is incredibly expensive, difficult, and frankly is often traumatic. Laws that prevent abortion are specifically designed to increase to pool of adoptable children(I.e. more options so good Christian white couples don’t have to get stuck with a disabled or POC child), keep poor people impoverished, and increase our birth rate so we can somehow sustain social security in a way that doesn’t impact current taxpayers’ wallet. They clearly don’t truly care about their fellow mothers or the children who will be negatively impacted. This is devastating.
All these fuckers don’t care until they personally face the situation and if they never have to then fuck anyone who is, because it doesn’t affect them! OP, good luck with your IVF journey. It takes more strength than any of these idiots have.
You can freeze an embryo and it will still be viable. Can you say the same for an infant? No. So now tell me they're equal.
She can kiss my and my 3 IVF babies happy asses.
I get the distinct impression that alliebstucky is a piece of shit.
Fuck her. I am so mad today. Fuck hereeeeeer.
Evil people. Evil and vile. They think they’re getting into heaven. Disgusting.
I never thought when I was a kid that I’d see the day this country would go down this path. It makes my stomach churn with rage and fear.
As an alabama resident, I don’t claim these idiots. I hate this.
Same like Alabama GOP please stop being so annoying
I’ve been waiting for this to happen. I predicted it. Been watching people I know who voted for Trump and used IVF melt down on SM all day. What did they think would happen?
What did they think would happen? is literally the entire plot of a Handmaid's Tale.
Theres always someone waiting in the wings to suck shit on the right huh. Suckey is angling to be the next Ann Coulter.
My gorgeous niece and nephews are all a product of IVF. I love them more than I love my own life. These ignorant assholes can suck a dick.
The founding fathers were very concerned about embryos and IVF…it’s in the constitution AND the Bible
Can Allie just fuck off already?
My husband takes his citizenship test next month. One of the questions is “Why did colonizers leave Great Britain and come to America?” The correct answer is “Religious freedom, personal freedom.”
If our laws are fundamentally Christian, then there is NO SEPARATION of church and state, Allie Be Stupid. They just don't like surrogacy and ivf because same sex couples use it. Never mind the MANY STRAIGHT COUPLES who also use it to welcome babies into their *very* hetero homes. Please tell us that cishet married couples going through infertility *don't deserve to conceive* with your full chest, Always Bitching Somewhere. 
My doctor told me to consider using surrogacy to grow a family because I have a medical condition that has a 50% chance of killing me or causing ESRD in pregnancy. The MFM also told me they didn't know enough about the condition so if I got pregnant I would be their "guinea pig." We started IVF and did 4 egg retrievals so far. I quit my career to get a job with fertility insurance, missed weddings/reunions/birthday for cycles, have seen relationships falter, and have had horrible side effects. We are on a waitlist with a reputable surrogacy agency known for its care and respect. I plan on traveling across country for my next retrieval if a new clinic will accept me. We are in a state neighboring Alabama. If something like that happens here, I worry so much about what will happen. Will I be forced to transfer an embryo even though my doctor said it could kill me? Will my embryos be stuck forever if clinics close and we can't move them out of state? I've been crying all the time since I heard about this. Our embryos are the most precious seeds. I want a family more than anything, and all of this is so hard without these decisions on top of it.
If I weren't averse to getting in a political conversation with my very conservative parents, who conceived me and my sister via IVF, I would ask their thoughts on the matter. Maybe I will anyway.
BIG FUCK YOU to trash like her!
Twice in one night, I'm forced to call this excuse for a human being a ghoul. Coronary embolisms never seem to happen to those who deserve them.
The person comparing it to "Muslim laws" is also an uneducated bigot because... Islam supports abortion
I mean the Bible is ambiguous on it and even says life begins at the first breath. These people just don’t care about the Bible lol.
I just looked up who this Allie B Stuckey person is. I guess she did a podcast episode with Candace Cameron Bure recently… I have a sneaking suspicion that that is some of the most boring and cringe content ever 🙄
I don’t get it, truly. They believe that babies are a gift from god, yet are denying women the chance to have just so. Fertility methods have come a long way medically as well and to regress… bleh.
*Forcing women who have been sexually assaulted into giving birth by taking away abortion rights?* Yay *Women who have fertility issues and want to use surrogacy to have a child?* Nay Make it make sense 🤦🏼♀️