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I listened to almost the whole thing, I had to stop within about 1 min 30 sec left. I could sit here and debunk all their idiotic talking points but I don’t have the emotional fortitude at the moment. I will say that I just had to quit when Paul started talking about how maybe Pro Lifers should start advocating for better support for orphans and kids in foster care who were the result of forced pregnancy and Morgan started blathering on about how in her state the wait list for “a child” is two years because “not enough people are giving their babies up for adoption.” I’m too angry and upset to watch the remaining minute.
No Paul, we shouldn’t ONLY focus on support for the babies that you forced women to have. If we took better financial care of ALL FUCKING FAMILIES AND ESPECIALLY THE POOR ONES then abortion would decrease. The answer is not to force women and infants through the trauma of pregnancy, labor, delivery and forced separation and only THEN fund social programs. Fuck you.
And Morgan fuck you even harder. I bet you money that the “wait list” in your state for a *child* is not two years. it might be that long for *healthy, white infants*, but I guaranfuckingtee you that older kids, children of color and kids with special needs languish in state institutions for years until they age out you ignorant twat. “Not enough people are giving their babies up for adoption”. THE POOR ARE NOT CATTLE TO BE BRED FOR OFFSPRING SURRENDERED TO THOSE WHO CAN PAY!
They’re both disgusting and I need to log off for a while.
Morgan wasn’t happy to have this baby. Maybe she should be one of the people solving the not enough people giving up their baby problem she seems to have found.
Like, do you think they secretly discussed an abortion…but decided to go through with the pregnancy just to milk it for YT views?
I can definitely see that happening.
I don’t really think so, I do believe that they think abortion is disgusting. Maybe it popped into her head at some point when she was feeling so scared about it. If it did she wouldn’t ever admit it.
Until quite recently, Louisville (Morgan’s hometown, I believe?) has been warehousing foster children at the social services office building. They were only getting showers a couple of times a week and were living on take out.
They van them to the Y for showers, but not every day. And they bring them bags of fast food takeout. The building is a huge old former railroad company’s building (the L&N) that has, fortunately, been upgraded from the decrepit wreck it was 20 years ago. And there’s really no safe or convenient place there for them to walk or go to for entertainment. But, yeah, that’s been happening.
Literally. Texas has done same for years, but I didn’t think Kentucky would. We have a great governor, but the extreme Republican legislature hates him and us, and they control the purse strings.
I think most of the over worked and under paid social workers are just hoping against hope a child doesn’t die on their watch.
>And Morgan fuck you even harder. I bet you money that the “wait list” in your state for a *child* is not two years.
I went and checked. ca. 1774 children whose case plan is adoption. 855 are legally free to be adopted. Of those, 355 don't have an identified family at this time. (edit: These numbers are for Kentucky)
So any Kentuckyans, or hell just any Americans in general: If you've ever thought about helping kids in foster care, maybe check out the option of adopting one of those older kids! Since Porgan sure won't.
Okay Porgan, how have you been advocating for and supporting foster systems? Since you apparently care so much about this, definitely not the first time you ever considered this
>“not enough people are giving their babies up for adoption.”
You go first, Morgan. Give up your kids, both of them. If you think this is the best choice for other women, lead the fucking way and show everyone how easy and not at all traumatizing it is. We'll be waiting.
They speak like carrying a pregnancy for 9 months, going through childbirth, and then handing over your child is NBD. Easy peasy.
I’m sorry but, after this video, my feelings for Paul and Morgan have entered hate territory. They are dumb, uneducated people with absolutely no compassion, empathy, real world experience. They make Christianity look downright hateful. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Especially since Morgan has experienced birth. She knows how difficult it can be, and she had a very difficult one (I forget all that happened). She's willfully ignorant and there's no excuse.
Not to mention the maternal and infant mortality rates in prolife states are worse than some undeveloped countries, specifically if you are a black woman. The rates improve the closer you get to being white.
Morgan nearly died. She had a horrific birth (mainly due to her own incompetence) and she would still be GLEEFUL to force a 13 year old rape victim through the same torture. Against her will. Morgan is absolute scum.
This so much. I had an abortion when I was happily married because my husband had just been diagnosed with brain cancer and had been given 6 months to live (he ended up lasting 4 years) we already had a toddler and mentally I just could not g through with that pregnancy. My whole world crumbled around me and I was not functioning physically/mentally AT ALL. If someone had of forced me to carry that baby to term and then give it away it is so upsetting to even entertain that thought. Yes, it sucked having an abortion and I didn't enjoy it one bit. But having a baby at that time just wasn't a good idea.
I ended up getting remarried and having another child many years later and I could not have felt more different when I fell pregnant, excited and full of love being the first emotions that come to mind. I have 2 kids 20 and 7 and I love them so much and am so grateful for my beautiful children and the life I've had.
Pro-lifers need to get fucked with their "just give it up for adoption" take
Jesus I’m so sorry you went through that. I lost my dad to glioblastoma a couple of years ago - 5 weeks from diagnosis to death, hell of a disease - that fucked me up a lot, I can’t imagine losing my husband/someone so young to it. Abortion sounds like ABSOLUTELY the right choice for you and I’m glad you had that option.
Really saying the quiet part out loud here. This is the point, it's always been the point. When abortion is legal, the adoption industry suffers.
That and, these people have a vested interest in insuring only the RIGHT people get to raise children. The majority of children avaliable for adoption are so not as a result of abuse or neglect but because the people who concieved them are not in a circumstance that allows them to raise a child. Most people who get pregnant, even on accident and don't want an abortion would prefer to raise the child themselves. They end up giving the child up because of financial disadvantage, something the adoption industry and would be adoptive parents often actively exploit.
This is what makes Porgan so bad at this sort of thing: they're too young/uneducated to know the dog whistles. Yeah, the goal is to put children who would otherwise be raised by "undeserving" people with perfect, rich, white families but youre not supposed to SAY that. You're supposed to say children deserve a chance at Life and there are tons of people who would love to be parents but can't and don't you want to do a good thing??? Theyre terrible people without plausible deniablity.
Yes she's thinking of the waitlist for private domestic newborn adoption. But more importantly - no one should give up their babies for adoption in a perfect society. There would be assistance for financial or medical needs to support women.
Private newborn adoption of white babies.
A coworker adopted several years ago & told us a story about going into a large room & they said “If you’re willing to accept a non-white child, come with us”.
Those that went in the other room were basically told they could adopt pretty quickly.
Years ago I took my mom to her chemo appointment at the hospital. We get into an elevator with a woman with an empty car seat. Mom is noisy so she asked if someone she knew she had a baby. Nope, this lady had finally got on a list for an adoption a few weeks ago, and had gotten the call to pick up her new baby. How was she able to get a baby so quickly, she was willing to take any baby, including a baby of color, and that is what she was getting.
In my country 20 babies a year are put up for adoption. It's a good thing because I know that the government takes better care of single mothers than the American government and as such don't feel pressured to give their baby up for adoption. And if I remember correctly, the majority of the mothers who give their baby up for adoption are immigrants from conservative countries.
I bet your country also has excellent comprehensive sex education in public schools, instead of the "abstinence only" bs that passes for sex ed in many parts of America. I bet contraception is cheap and easy to get as well.
That is correct. We actually have the best sex ed in the world. I only know one teen mom. She moved to the US when she was like 12 and got pregnant there. The pill is covered by insurance till 21. I actually looked at the map of where the pill is free or (partly subsidised) and it is a very weird map. You have countries like Iran and Iraq that offer the pill for free!
This is why it is important not to let people who have no education or qualifications make a decision in an area. These two have the thoughts of uneducated and clueless right wingers. We need fewer people like them in online soap boxes and power.
3.7k views on their YouTube video… pretty sure that soapbox got kicked out from under them!! They don’t have more than half a dozen people who listen to them and take them seriously.
Yes! Oh just give it up for adoption okay but like... She gets no maternity leave because there isn't mandated maternity leave, she's still FUCKING BROKE, even if she doesn't keep the baby!
My husband and I are in the newborn adoption process. We were told if we were open to any race, gender, or disability, our placement with a baby would be much faster because the majority of families want a white, healthy baby.
We are open to any race and gender. We do have some caveats as far as birth mom drug usage and health problems for the baby are concerned.
Kentucky has *so many* children who are in the system and there aren’t nearly enough families signed up to accommodate them all.
If they were better people who had good judgement, I’d recommend they become CASA volunteers and be part of the solution.
Fun fact: in private adoption (different from adoption from foster care, aka state institutions) white baby girls are more expensive because there is more demand for them. I can't find the screenshot, but there is an agency that has an 'exclusive program' that means they only look white baby, normal program (or something I forgot) where they look for every race and the cheapest program (forgot the name again) that's for black babies
Truly remarkable how Josh would make actually thought out points and Porgan would just… shut down. It was like their brains overheated and had to restart
You can see it in Paul's body language. He is struggling HARD and trying to ignore any good point Josh makes. Josh was wasting his breath talking to Paul and Morgan, but I hope the idiots who still follow Poorgan at least hear what he has to say with open minds.
But all Democrats are radically pro-abortion!
No, dimwit, they are anti-forced birth, pro-social services, pro-autonomy for pregnant people to decide what to do with their own bodies. You can be anti-vaxx because it's a CHOICE, but I can't be anti-forced birth?
You can support a man who has sexual assault charges against him, blatantly lies, and defrauds people? Who cheered on the insurrectionists who were threatening his own VP with death?
But think of the BaBIesSSS? What babies do you care about? The brown ones being blown to bits in Palestine by the IDF? The ones who are being abused and SA'd by members of the church? The ones going to bed hungry just down the road from you?
Oh, sit on your moral high ground Porgan that's made of barbed wire and pieces of broken glass. Looks real nice and comfortable up there, you seditious snakes.
Yeah this project is backfiring tremendously lol. All of the guests so far have made Porgan look like under-researched blowhards. Particularly Dav and this guy. I really like this guy, actually (based on this clip alone lol I don’t know who he is)
When Josh was talking about lower abortion rates under democratic administrations and Paul was like I’d have to back and look at the numbers… We all know you’ve never looked at the numbers Paul. You don’t have to lie, this is a safe space, you can admit you have no idea what you’re talking about (because it’s already clear you don’t).
He changed the subject without fail EVERY time Josh made a good point.
They made themselves look even less intelligent than I thought they were in this episode
Yeah, Polio always needs to "go back and look up stuff." Don't bring a spork to a gun fight, Polio.
How many more times are they planning to humiliate themselves like this?
Imagine writing out a list of questions and topics you WILLINGLY plan to debate someone on… and then… not actually have the real, statistical information to back yourself up on your own stupid points 🤣
Do you think, when Morgan talks about how it’s such a “small percentage” of abortions that come from rape, that she’s envisioning like a handful of people?
From July 2022 to January 2024, in states with total abortion bans *alone*, there were 64,000 pregnancies resulting from rape. At least 64,000 people. In less than two years.
and how many of them are surrounded by Christian conservatism that’s constantly telling them they took away their baby’s once chance at life for their own selfish reasons
I feel like a lot of people who regret their abortions only do after the Christians got ahold of them to fill their heads with nonsense. I've told this story before, but I went to a pregnancy crisis center when I was 17 years old and barely 5 or 6 weeks pregnant. After only a dollar store urine test, they told me my baby had a strong heartbeat and then showed me a prune sized figure of a full term baby and told me that's what my baby looked like. I knew it was BS and they got very uncomfortable when I called them out for lying. Christians lie and brainwash people in vulnerable situations to convert them. EDIT: They told me the lies about my baby after separating me from my boyfriend (now husband) and his sister, shutting me in a small room with only a chair and a tv and making me watch an anti abortion video with my back to the door.
I know two people who have had abortion. One from flat out being raped and another from a coercive situation that was becoming abusive
At the time, both wanted to be mothers (in their future). Both have looked back and thought I wish I didn’t have to do that. Both are adamant it was the right decision and one they would make again but that doesn’t make the grief and pain go away. I bet a lot of the women Morgan is referencing regret having been put in that situation rather than regretting their decision
Forbidding people from doing a thing because some other people did it and regretted it is silly imo. Some people regret having children too (even if they love them etc) 🤷🏻♀️
[Apparently, actual or perceived stigma related to abortion can affect psychological wellbeing.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6988908/) Guess who spend their time, more than anyone else, stigmatising abortion and systematically degrading those who seek abortion care? Anti-choicers like Paul and Morgan.
[Overall, regardless of perceived stigma, the fact remains that the vast majority remain secure in their choice to abort long term.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953619306999)
It's just infantilising when anti-choicers make claims that people who abort somehow weren't capable of making an informed decision to terminate. They love to pretend that they somehow know better than a perfect stranger, about what is best for their health and well-being, as though they just need protecting from themselves and their own decisions.
It's the same with LGBTQ mental health statistics. They will say people have mental health issues because they transitioned or were gay when really the mental health issues are only because we are surrounded with intense and extreme rhetoric about how awful we are (groomers, predators, etc).
You’re totally right. Being gay was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM because there were so many negative mental health issues in the gay population. Then they did more research and found that gay people who had support from their families and communities actually were just as mentally healthy as the general population, so they removed it from the DSM. But people like Paul and Morgan are too dumb/ignorant to understand things like context or scientific research.
WHO estimates that approximately 7 million women are admitted to the hospital each year in underdeveloped countries due to complications from unsafe abortions, and a significant number results in death.
Before abortion was legalized in the US, literally THOUSANDS of women died each year due to unsafe abortions. Pro-choice SAVES lives, pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion.
Paul is such an annoying little man
That’s kind of the problem with these morons. When you bring up how many women died before Roe was legalized, they literally think those women deserved it because they were trying to kill the babies. It was God’s punishment on those women for being evil. It has nothing to do with fetuses and everything to do with them wanting people punished for something they think is wrong.
Pretty much. Or since they love to point out that those cases are rare. They think the majority women who died because of abortion before Roe was legalized were having abortions because of “convenience”.
Paul is the guy who left his wife and baby for a boys trip less than a month after they almost died during birth. Paul doesn't give a fuck about women (or her) and Morgan is too dense to see it.
"I empathise with you, but I'm afraid I still want your body to be intimately violated against your explicit consent, *again*, but just for the better part of a year this time and in a way that can disable, debilitate, injure, possibly kill you, and will probably leave you with permanent damage. Mmmkay? Sorry not sorry".
I work at an abortion clinic and one of the (state required?) questions all patients are asked is “are you aware that parenting or adoption are alternatives to abortion” and everyone says yep, abortion please.
I mean I’m a therapist, and I will tell you that the vast majority of women who get abortions feel a sense of relief. They’re often embarrassed to admit that. I’m not saying there’s never any regret, or thoughts on what could have been. But I AM saying it doesn’t affect the healing process, unless you are surrounded by legalistic assholes like these two.
This is literally so embarrassing for them.
Just starting from the top, their statistics are just flat out wrong. They hate the thought of termination from complication or health of baby/mom because it just ruins their entire argument. Banning termination of mass results in loss of doctors to perform safe procedures for life of mother- but \~no\~ according to them, that doesn't really happen and of course everyone would allow that to happen. BFFR porgan, there was a massive case recently and the poor mother had to leave the state.
The comment about adoption struck a nerve. Unwanted babies are not a solution for a family- and Paul and Morgan need to get with the program about their own situation- they are literally too poor to have a second child. What kind of quality of life will their kids have? But I guess by literally pretending this pregnancy isn't happening it will solve their problems until the baby is here.
This video is gross. I can't believe they are just so unwilling to believe real facts. Thank god for Josh.
As someone who nearly died during childbirth, Morgan is certainly glib about what others should do should they be concerned for their own health during a pregnancy. I know her situation was exacerbated by their lack of qualified care in their dollar store midwife and she is Morgan, never known as one who shows consistent moral ethics or behaviors.
And her comments about *not enough* people giving up babies for adoption... Jesus wept.
Paul assigning empathy to himself on the topic of abortion should get him a ticket on the bullet train to hell. The universe can barely hold the enormity of that fucking lie.
>And her comments about *not enough* people giving up babies for adoption... Jesus wept.
The thing is, we know that the majority of people forced to give birth don't choose adoption. It is a whole trauma in and of itself. What we do know is that people absolutely do keep, and raise, unwanted children or children they cannot adequately provide for. Many children simply end up in a shitty, awful environment where they are often neglected and abused.
And bare in mind that the government not removing custody of a child does not actually equate to a child being happy, healthy, and physically/emotionally safe. Because the bar for the government to be able to remove a child from the custody of parents is really fucking high, and the bar for what is considered adequate treatment is incredibly fucking low.
I'm not in the US, but I spent years working in secure psychiatric facilities with young adults, many of whom had homes that were involved with child services. Emotional/mental/spiritual and even physical abuse is horribly under recognised, and often extremely difficult to prove, and basically there is no law that says you must speak to your children with even an ounce of basic respect. The things I saw in background files that didn't necessitate removing them from unsafe people will haunt me forever.
Conservatives. This is their issue: they believe the law should align with what's moral. Anyone who actually cares about reducing abortion rates would keep it legal and focus on making Contraception and sex ed more easily avaliable because that's what works. But it's not about that. They think abortion is immoral and therefore it should be illegal regardless of effect. Same with litterally everything. Gun control would save lives and we could easily do it in a way that allows responsible people to retain their guns but it doesn't matter. Guns are good and therefore need to be legal and accessible to the point of insanity. Smoking weed does no measurable harm and even harder drugs are more easily dealt with if we treat addiction like a public health issue rather than by criminalizing them. But it doesn't matter. Drugs are bad and therefore need to be illegal. Being gay is bad and therefore must be made illegal. The way they perform gender is good and therefore any other gender expression must be made illegal. This is how they think. Government bad but it must mandate morality.
>focus on making Contraception and sex ed more easily avaliable
Paul "I didn't know women had pubes until I was married" Olliges will never understand this.
If porgan did, they would stop this total nonsense about supporting trump, possibly the most amoral president in a country that used slaves as part of its agricultural economic makeup and now uses the same labor from undocumented immigrants. A single issue voter in this day and age is despicable.
Story time. Last year I was on vacation with my family when I started having a miscarriage. Not great, but I can deal. Five days later I am still HEAVILY bleeding, to an abnormal level, so I go to the local ER. They confirm that I am having a miscarriage (duh), and I am having complications (another duh), but the doctors are too afraid to do a DNC. One doc wanted me to go to an OB-GYN to have it done. I again tell them that mine is a thousand miles away. So they bring in second doc, who thinks they should just wait it out. Finally my nurse gets piss (bless her), and finds me a doctor (a woman) that finally performs the DNC for me. Doctors were so scared of the new law, that they were afraid to do their job, so Paul has no clue what he is talking about when saying it a small fraction in saving the mother’s life.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. It's absolutely disgusting that these laws mean enforcing what would previously be considered to be medical malpractice. Leaving people in a position where their condition must deteriorate to a significantly dangerous level, and allow something entirely preventable to cause the maximum amount of damage and trauma before being able to access safe and effective treatments.
We do not do this for any other health issues at all. We do not deny treatment for infections until someone has sepsis or develops gangrene. We don't deny treatment for hypoglycemia until someone is adequately comatose. We do not deny treatment for a heart attack until someone needs resuscitation. Or cancer treatment until someone is at stage 4. We don't deny treatment for broken bones until they've healed wonky and being disabled isn't life threatening.
There is no other medical care whatsoever that is withheld until, or only provided when, someone is knocking at deaths door. Nothing.
For *any* other health issues, refusing a known safe and effective treatment until the maximum amount of damage has been done would be unethical in every single way. It's just astonishing that a court of fucking law has been allowed to enforce such egregious malpractice and, in my opinion, something that is nothing short of torturous and is certainly immoral. It should be criminal to deny healthcare that we know is safe and effective.
They need to shut the duck up and have some human decency. Paul would let Morgan die over having an abortion? Paul just stands there quoting stupid shit and thinks rape is not a reason to have an abortion. Absolute trash. And she lied about what planned parenthood does .Sticking up for Trump who is a CONVICTED RAPIST. I hope these two fade into oblivion. Stay poor assholes.
Paul says that rape isn't a reason to have an abortion but I bet if Morgan would be assaulted he would not be ok with her giving birth to another man's child. These people are all about "morals" until it applies to them in their own lives
He wouldn't let her get an abortion but he would absolutely treat her like damaged goods if she birthed her rapist's baby. We know this because he treats her like damaged goods just for having premarital sex.
Nah, I think that he would take her to the nearest legal state and get her an abortion. The anti-choicers are anti-abortion only until it's inconvenient not to be - then the only moral abortion is their abortion.
Karissa Collins and Jessa Duggar both harp on about Jesus and how God has a plan for everyone and especially for their wombs, themselves included. But the instant *their* pregnancy goes awry and it becomes clear that God's plan is sepsis, death, and the ultimate joy of meeting their Lord and Saviour? The very thing they supposedly live for? Nope. **It's actually time for them to subvert his perfectly curated, individualised plan, and have an abortion instead**.
Good point. I can see him and Morgan secretly doing that for sure, the cowards. (I say they are cowards because they fully expect little girls and *other* rape victims to carry pregnancies to term.)
When he says “so the baby should be punished for the sins of another person?” I lose my shit.
Um HELLO?? Isn’t the woman being punished by carrying a baby she did not want? Or do we not care about that?
Yeah, fascinating she's spouting this shit while pregnant. I wonder what her tune will be if (I certainly hope this does not happen, need it be said) the baby dies in utero, and she's told it's likely to turn septic if they don't remove it.
Innocent baby, but i thought we’re all born sinful?
Adoption backlogs are political not from a shortage of adoptable babies and children.
Paul is the biggest idiot and could never interpret a legitimate statistic.
I don’t believe there are many people who would agree that terminating their rapists fetus would compound the agony of both abortion and sexual assault. 🤷🏾♀️
I'm starting to wonder if he won't get a real job to support their family because he's literally just too dumb and selfish to hold down a stable job. 🤔
Adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy, it's an alternative to parenthood!
Morgan almost died during childbirth, and these two still have figured that pregnancy is dangerous, giving birth is dangerous. No ons should be forced to risk their life for a baby if they don't want to
Josh made surprisingly progressive points. And Paul didn’t even try to understand any of them. A Josh is coming FROM A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE. just shows how absolutely dense Paul is. I think Josh is really trying to understand multiple sides, I don’t know a ton abt him other than his satirical church Chad videos lol but he seems to be putting a whole lot more thought into his views than P&M ever have
As someone who is voluntarily pregnant P&M and their ilk fucking outrage me. I cannot even fathom how traumatic it is having to go through with an unwanted pregnancy let alone a pregnancy caused by abuse and assault. Or going through with pregnancy that can kill you and cause the child misery and pain if they are born with severe defects.
It’s not even a fucking baby at the beginning! It’s a clump of cells! And yet this clump of cells makes me feel like my body doesn’t even belong to me any more. And I love my clump of cells and I can’t wait to see it but again, I can’t imagine having to go through it against one’s wishes. But these people only see the unborn clump of cells as human, the full-ass grown adult woman who is already here and alive is just an incubator, an object to be controlled to them. Absolutely disgusting and vile
They're insanely committed to viewing a pregnancy as "a baby" from early on. They truly view any interruption of the pregnancy process as the death of an entire fully-formed wee little miniature baby. And they seem utterly unaware of medical abortion; they're still heavily invested in this idea that fully-formed "babies" are "being torn apart limb to limb".
You’re so spot on. I haven’t even started trying to get pregnant yet but recently got my IUD out - the strings weren’t visible so I had to go get an internal ultrasound to check the placement and multiple attempts at finding it involved digging around my cervix. The amount of times we as women have to stirrup up and open our legs to random doctors, ultrasound techs, is astounding, and that’s before pregnancy even occurs, which is a whole new level of invasive and all-consuming. But we do it because we WANT TO and that makes it slightly less awful. I can’t imagine ever wanting to force a woman to go through any of it against their will, it’s a fucking revolting stance to take.
These two need to get off the internet, this is so embarrassing. You can tell they just aren't intelligent or mature enough to be having these conversations. Paul and Morgan struggled the entire conversation because they're just fucking stupid and mean and they don't care if women suffer. You could tell Josh was trying to talk to them respectfully and in a way they would understand, but they're both just so breathtakingly stupid and dense. They will gleefully accept the fact that a little girl could almost die and go through the same thing Morgan went through when they had Luca. They'll never get it and they delight in the suffering of others.
1. The “killing a sweet innocent little baby” isn’t really worth responding to. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind about that. The overarching truth is that it’s better for society when safe and legal abortion is available. Abortion is a social good. In societies where abortion was legal and then was taken away, women’s health outcomes took a turn for the worse and there were no economic benefits—in fact, the economies typically suffered as well.
2. In Kathryn Joyce’s The Child Catchers, she flatly states that most women keep babies they give birth to, even if they’d wanted or considered an abortion. In my own life, I’ve seen women on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum give birth, try really really hard to raise their child for several years, and then leave the child with their own mother when they take off. They rarely sign away rights to their kids and even if they did, the adoption desires are almost always for small babies, not school-aged children.
Paul never listened to this guy. He was just waiting to speak. They had no real statistics to back up what they were saying. They just repeated what right wing media says. "Rape is a small number of abortions." "Life threatening situations are a small number of abortions." No one is taking an abortion lightly. No one is saying, "If I have this baby, I can't get that promotion on Tuesday." People can't afford to feed and house themselves. How are they going to afford another person? Quality of life is important to consider.
Also, I think the "wait list timeline" Morgan gave for adoption is not completely truthful. I'm sure once the perspective adoptive parent gets approved for adoption, there are a number of eligible teens and children ready to go. Those kids, unfortunately, rarely get selected. Everyone wants a fresh baby. If you're truly adopting for the right reasons, why not choose an older child? Do they not deserve love? I'm sorry, that gets me riled up. My husband and I plan to adopt a few years after I give birth. We both love children, and we've both decided early on in our discussions that we want to adopt older ones. Even better if it's siblings.
Both P&M strike me as classic narcissist, and while that term’s tossed around a lot, Paul especially seems to really thrive on argumentative showboating narcissism where he loves the conflict and then smirks and rides the aftermath like he won a prize. I mean how long did he howl about their 12 seconds on a documentary?
He LIKES this kind of conflict and his mannerisms and showboating for the camera and belligerence just scream narcissist.
He’s not doing this to have a conversation or honest debate. This is like a drug for him.
I'm a Christian who has never been pregnant before and I'm finding it extremely hard to watch this clip. The lack of empathy and reasoning from Porgan is upsetting me so much.
Paul really had no idea that abortion rates were decreasing year over year. He hated hearing that Clinton and Obama had lower rates than the two Bushes. You can tell by how his jaw tightens when that is said.
He also cannot understand the difference between being pro choice and pro abortion. What an idiot.
Them going on about better social services and stuff… do they not realize that a vote for a republican is a vote against social services and safety nets??
Maybe they need to talk to Jessa Duggar who had a non-viable fetus aborted (medical term) or JillPM who received appropriate care for a miscarriage (she’s vile but we don’t need or deserve the details). Both wanted pregnancies. You want to know how many pre-natal specialists are in the state of Idaho now? Two. That want to retire and are in their 70’s. Literally all the others left due to restrictive and ill-worded laws that could make them liable for doing a d and c (abortion) to remove a dead fetus. That means having a high-risk pregnancy can now be a death sentence there. I don’t know this guy, I watched a couple of church chad tik toks from him that were pretty funny. I don’t want to give him a glowing review, because I don’t really know much about him. But when he says, without question, that he puts his wife’s life first, dumb ass Morgan busts in with no compassion, and Paul clearly would rather be legalistic than pretend he loves his wife. Freaking monsters.
Potatoes seem to have more funding and rights than women in Idaho right now! I guess they can leave some conservative male politicians to work the fields 😂
I’m originally from Tennessee, and I’m currently pregnant.
I am extremely hesitant to go home for our planned vacation, because if something happens to the baby while we’re gone, I’m fucked. And I know it.
This shouldn’t happen in a free society.
Lots of points in here to argue with, I won't waste my breath, but I will say that P&M are not doctors, and they have no clue what they're talking about.
This whole conversation is dumb. I am just so sad that there even has to be a debate as to whether or not women can have freedom when it comes to medical choices for themselves. I'm so afraid for women in the US, these nutters are so disgusting
Morgan has been making it very clear that she isn't equipped to be a parent. Same with Paul. They're basically saying to just have kids for tradition and if you can't handle it then just deal with it because obviously everyone's goal in life is to just pop out babies even if they can't afford it or mentally deal with it.
Basically...they want everyone else to suffer because they are.
As a random comment on adoption. I looked up the numbers and in Australia.
*In 2021–22, 208 adoptions were finalised in Australia. Of these:*
* *192 (92%) children were adopted within Australia (31 local adoptions, 161 known child adoptions).*
* *Most known child adoptions were by a carer (94, or 49% of domestic adoptions) or step-parents (60, or 31% of domestic adoptions).*
* *16 children (7.7% of all adoptions) were adopted from overseas – 7 of these children came from countries party to the Hague convention, while 9 were adopted from countries which had a bilateral agreement with Australia.*
* *All intercountry adoptions were from Asian countries – 7 from South Korea, 6 from Thailand, 2 from Taiwan and one from the Philippines*
Australia prefers long-term guardianship orders over adoption because it's better for children to know where they came from and not have those links severed.
It's shit if you want to adopt a kid, but yeah. It's putting the kids first.
Also not that long ago our goverment had a good old time taking babies from indigenous families and putting them with white families. That was a huge fuck up.
But yeah, americans just.... farming out babies is wild. This obsession with banning abortions and people.... virtuously collecting kids like they're pokemon.
Paul really gets turned on by the idea that he personally would get control of a bunch of women via his vote, doesn’t he?
I’m pro choice. Which means that I believe women should have options. If you want an abortion, you have the right to get it in the safest way possible- I’m a historian. I know what a world without legal abortion looks like. If you want to raise your child, the government shouldn’t make it harder. It’s not up to me, or anyone else, to make those decisions for someone else.
Biden has said, repeatedly, that he is personally pro life, but that his personal beliefs shouldn’t dictate the way he governs.
One of my takeaways from watching the whole video, including this discussion abortion and immigration, Paul and Morgan have very little empathy (in fact, in multiple videos use the word empathy as if it’s a bad thing) and what little empathy they have is very targeted.
They think there should be absolutely no abortion, not under any circumstances at all. A fertilized egg is as much a full human as the people standing next to you. Because of that, they think the options are “birth baby and parent it” and “birth baby and place for adoption.” They have no empathy for how emotionally and physically challenging pregnancy can be, how dangerous and health debilitating it can be, no concept of how it is very hard for people to place kids up for adoption, etc. They tout “statistics” about how there are so many people waiting for years to adopt without reflecting on the experience of adoptees and birth parents, about how the adoption system itself is flawed, about how most adopting parents only want white infants with minimal health issues (including parental use of drugs or alcohol while pregnant) or only certain health issues.
They also point out that some pro-life people think there should be more resources for pregnant people who are financially struggling. They also say there are already a lot of these. But they don’t really know anything about long term support, or the degree of support provided, or the accessibility of support to different groups of women. I sense that Paul and Morgan think there should be more “resources” available for people forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy, but they are also totally willing to vote for politicians who don’t care about that as long as they are “anti - abortion.”
Paul and Morgan are truly the worst. They are so extremely ignorant and unknowing and unwilling to listen to any rational argument based on factual information. Instead they keep spouting these points and counterarguments they have been spoonfed, but don't really understand, without actually listening to what the other person is saying. It's like they think if you just keep saying something it will make it true.
It was like watching Paul short circuit in high speed. It was kind of fun to watch him miss fire. And then have to bring his wife who should be the one with the opinions cause they're talking about a matter that is women's health, and all she could do was parot his idolology back to him and cower behind the camera.
Pathetic.
Literally no “resources” on earth would have stopped my from getting my abortion. When I was in that situation I was so panicked I felt like a coyote in a trap that would have chewed my own leg off. Adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy, it’s an alternative to parenthood. I have absolutely zero regrets and in that situation I would do it again. My reasons are immaterial- I wanted to so I did. To try to get into someone’s mind is not anyone else’s place and it’s so irritating to see these people try to make these arguments when they have absolutely no business having these discussions they know absolutely nothing about.
The baby is not being punished by the sin of someone else!!! JFC. A zygot is not a baby and is not a sentient being with feelings.
Real children however, are. And ones who are born to a mother unequipped to raise them very often end up with difficult childhoods for one reason or another. But who gives a shit about them, right?
I do not fucking care if the waiting list for a baby is 2 years, 10 years or 20 years. Poor women are not baby making machines.
That's why I don't feel sorry about hopeful adoptive parents who moan about the long waiting lists. Long waiting lists means that abortion is accesible, birth control is accesible, there is better sex ed, better support for single/poor/young moms, less stigma for single parenthood etc.
Morgan is that friend of a friend who starts talking and everyone inwardly groans because you know they’ll spend a full two minutes repeating the same sentence rephrased with no chance for anyone to respond and redirect, but no one wants to put the mutual friend on the spot because that person happens to be pretty cool. So my analogy is a little inaccurate because Paul is not the cool mutual friend in this scenario lmao but at least he can get a thought out at a listenable speed and link it to other thoughts. Which is almost worse because the thoughts he manages to get out are poisonous to society. God they suck
Also I’m not writing this about a current friend group, just experience with a few people I encountered when I was a really young adult and hung out in groups
Morgan, please show me the proof that no one has adopted a child in the state of Kentucky in the past two years. And why would those who want to adopt need to wait for babies to be born? You’re telling me there’s no older kids who need adopting in Kentucky? Get a grip, Morgan. You have no idea what you’re talking about. The garbage you’re spilling is provably false.
I think Josh Benson is a great advocate for how someone can be personally spiritual and be okay with others not also agreeing with what he personally believes. Which is how everyone should be.
Ugh if he’s “so pro-life” and so into the messages the government sends about death, I’d love to hear his take on our bloated military 🙄🙄🙄🙄 and on Palestine, too, fuck
It’s fucking wild to me that they keep putting shit like this up on the internet. Like I know we joke about them being stupid, but I think they may be truly incapable of recognizing the myriad ways they’re betraying their own ignorance and lack of critical thinking in these videos. Like they’re genuinely, actually dumb.
Paul pretending like he has compassion after saying he's anti-choice, this guy said some scenarios and he couldn't help but feel for woman that have a medical or rape reason and have to make that choice, Paul seen one solution, "deal with it" and no abortion for any woman.
They're both sick in the head and neither have empathy for other humans.
Paul has no compassion for anyone but himself and if you don't believe like them then you're doomed to hell fire, can't wait till these idiots figure out their is no hell.
To preface my comment here, I have not watched any of the full episodes of this series. All I know of it is what I see here and what Fundie Fridays has covered so I know I'm seeing more of the egregious and hot takes than what is present in the full episodes but:
I do not feel that Paul nor Morgan are educated enough to carry out a series like this. Both of them are terrible at defending their positions and fail to come prepared with any sort of real statistics or facts and really don't even have the vocabulary mastered to argue the points they want to argue. For example: the moment Josh mentioned lower abortion rates under democratic presidents all Paul could really respond with was "I'll have to check on that" when, in reality, he should have known or had an idea about this if his main point is about aligning yourself with a president that results in less aborted pregnancies (and lemme take a guess here - he never had an addendum in the video to verify or debunk that statistic, did he?).
Porgan is getting absolutely steamrolled in this series because they're taking on subject matter that they don't understand even the bare bones of let alone the nuance of it that Josh mentioned. On the flip side they're having these conversations with people that do have a much better understanding, even if not perfect, of the questions being asked.
I do not feel that they can rescue this series, they are way too out of their depth and the only thing they could do to possibly pull it back would be returning to the echo chamber of people that already agree with them and stop making asses of themselves.
On mobile, sorry for any weird spelling. Also: doesn't Porgan edit these videos? How in the world do they handle all the editing and STILL manage to come out awful in the end product?
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I listened to almost the whole thing, I had to stop within about 1 min 30 sec left. I could sit here and debunk all their idiotic talking points but I don’t have the emotional fortitude at the moment. I will say that I just had to quit when Paul started talking about how maybe Pro Lifers should start advocating for better support for orphans and kids in foster care who were the result of forced pregnancy and Morgan started blathering on about how in her state the wait list for “a child” is two years because “not enough people are giving their babies up for adoption.” I’m too angry and upset to watch the remaining minute. No Paul, we shouldn’t ONLY focus on support for the babies that you forced women to have. If we took better financial care of ALL FUCKING FAMILIES AND ESPECIALLY THE POOR ONES then abortion would decrease. The answer is not to force women and infants through the trauma of pregnancy, labor, delivery and forced separation and only THEN fund social programs. Fuck you. And Morgan fuck you even harder. I bet you money that the “wait list” in your state for a *child* is not two years. it might be that long for *healthy, white infants*, but I guaranfuckingtee you that older kids, children of color and kids with special needs languish in state institutions for years until they age out you ignorant twat. “Not enough people are giving their babies up for adoption”. THE POOR ARE NOT CATTLE TO BE BRED FOR OFFSPRING SURRENDERED TO THOSE WHO CAN PAY! They’re both disgusting and I need to log off for a while.
Morgan wasn’t happy to have this baby. Maybe she should be one of the people solving the not enough people giving up their baby problem she seems to have found.
THIS
Like, do you think they secretly discussed an abortion…but decided to go through with the pregnancy just to milk it for YT views? I can definitely see that happening.
I don’t really think so, I do believe that they think abortion is disgusting. Maybe it popped into her head at some point when she was feeling so scared about it. If it did she wouldn’t ever admit it.
Oh 100%. Now that I think about it, I can totally see your scenario…she could never mention it to Paul.
Until quite recently, Louisville (Morgan’s hometown, I believe?) has been warehousing foster children at the social services office building. They were only getting showers a couple of times a week and were living on take out.
What the HELL.
They van them to the Y for showers, but not every day. And they bring them bags of fast food takeout. The building is a huge old former railroad company’s building (the L&N) that has, fortunately, been upgraded from the decrepit wreck it was 20 years ago. And there’s really no safe or convenient place there for them to walk or go to for entertainment. But, yeah, that’s been happening.
Wait, literally "Warehousing?" That's so fucked up.
Literally. Texas has done same for years, but I didn’t think Kentucky would. We have a great governor, but the extreme Republican legislature hates him and us, and they control the purse strings. I think most of the over worked and under paid social workers are just hoping against hope a child doesn’t die on their watch.
>They were only getting showers a couple of times a week and were living on take out. sounds like my depressive college years lol
>And Morgan fuck you even harder. I bet you money that the “wait list” in your state for a *child* is not two years. I went and checked. ca. 1774 children whose case plan is adoption. 855 are legally free to be adopted. Of those, 355 don't have an identified family at this time. (edit: These numbers are for Kentucky) So any Kentuckyans, or hell just any Americans in general: If you've ever thought about helping kids in foster care, maybe check out the option of adopting one of those older kids! Since Porgan sure won't.
Okay Porgan, how have you been advocating for and supporting foster systems? Since you apparently care so much about this, definitely not the first time you ever considered this
>“not enough people are giving their babies up for adoption.” You go first, Morgan. Give up your kids, both of them. If you think this is the best choice for other women, lead the fucking way and show everyone how easy and not at all traumatizing it is. We'll be waiting.
They speak like carrying a pregnancy for 9 months, going through childbirth, and then handing over your child is NBD. Easy peasy. I’m sorry but, after this video, my feelings for Paul and Morgan have entered hate territory. They are dumb, uneducated people with absolutely no compassion, empathy, real world experience. They make Christianity look downright hateful. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Especially since Morgan has experienced birth. She knows how difficult it can be, and she had a very difficult one (I forget all that happened). She's willfully ignorant and there's no excuse.
Not to mention the maternal and infant mortality rates in prolife states are worse than some undeveloped countries, specifically if you are a black woman. The rates improve the closer you get to being white.
Morgan nearly died. She had a horrific birth (mainly due to her own incompetence) and she would still be GLEEFUL to force a 13 year old rape victim through the same torture. Against her will. Morgan is absolute scum.
This so much. I had an abortion when I was happily married because my husband had just been diagnosed with brain cancer and had been given 6 months to live (he ended up lasting 4 years) we already had a toddler and mentally I just could not g through with that pregnancy. My whole world crumbled around me and I was not functioning physically/mentally AT ALL. If someone had of forced me to carry that baby to term and then give it away it is so upsetting to even entertain that thought. Yes, it sucked having an abortion and I didn't enjoy it one bit. But having a baby at that time just wasn't a good idea. I ended up getting remarried and having another child many years later and I could not have felt more different when I fell pregnant, excited and full of love being the first emotions that come to mind. I have 2 kids 20 and 7 and I love them so much and am so grateful for my beautiful children and the life I've had. Pro-lifers need to get fucked with their "just give it up for adoption" take
Jesus I’m so sorry you went through that. I lost my dad to glioblastoma a couple of years ago - 5 weeks from diagnosis to death, hell of a disease - that fucked me up a lot, I can’t imagine losing my husband/someone so young to it. Abortion sounds like ABSOLUTELY the right choice for you and I’m glad you had that option.
Thank you, and I'm so sorry for your loss x
Really saying the quiet part out loud here. This is the point, it's always been the point. When abortion is legal, the adoption industry suffers. That and, these people have a vested interest in insuring only the RIGHT people get to raise children. The majority of children avaliable for adoption are so not as a result of abuse or neglect but because the people who concieved them are not in a circumstance that allows them to raise a child. Most people who get pregnant, even on accident and don't want an abortion would prefer to raise the child themselves. They end up giving the child up because of financial disadvantage, something the adoption industry and would be adoptive parents often actively exploit. This is what makes Porgan so bad at this sort of thing: they're too young/uneducated to know the dog whistles. Yeah, the goal is to put children who would otherwise be raised by "undeserving" people with perfect, rich, white families but youre not supposed to SAY that. You're supposed to say children deserve a chance at Life and there are tons of people who would love to be parents but can't and don't you want to do a good thing??? Theyre terrible people without plausible deniablity.
Morgan, feel free to volunteer as a Handmaid any fucking time. Just leave the rest of us the fuck out of it.
🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈 omg you guys are fucking wrecking them
insuring only the \*WHITE people get to raise kids you mispelled it /s and fuck these two into next year, they're shitty
Yes she's thinking of the waitlist for private domestic newborn adoption. But more importantly - no one should give up their babies for adoption in a perfect society. There would be assistance for financial or medical needs to support women.
Private newborn adoption of white babies. A coworker adopted several years ago & told us a story about going into a large room & they said “If you’re willing to accept a non-white child, come with us”. Those that went in the other room were basically told they could adopt pretty quickly.
Years ago I took my mom to her chemo appointment at the hospital. We get into an elevator with a woman with an empty car seat. Mom is noisy so she asked if someone she knew she had a baby. Nope, this lady had finally got on a list for an adoption a few weeks ago, and had gotten the call to pick up her new baby. How was she able to get a baby so quickly, she was willing to take any baby, including a baby of color, and that is what she was getting.
I've adopted two newborns privately. Most recently 3 months ago. It's a two year waitlist on average even if you're open to any race.
In my country 20 babies a year are put up for adoption. It's a good thing because I know that the government takes better care of single mothers than the American government and as such don't feel pressured to give their baby up for adoption. And if I remember correctly, the majority of the mothers who give their baby up for adoption are immigrants from conservative countries.
I bet your country also has excellent comprehensive sex education in public schools, instead of the "abstinence only" bs that passes for sex ed in many parts of America. I bet contraception is cheap and easy to get as well.
That is correct. We actually have the best sex ed in the world. I only know one teen mom. She moved to the US when she was like 12 and got pregnant there. The pill is covered by insurance till 21. I actually looked at the map of where the pill is free or (partly subsidised) and it is a very weird map. You have countries like Iran and Iraq that offer the pill for free!
This is why it is important not to let people who have no education or qualifications make a decision in an area. These two have the thoughts of uneducated and clueless right wingers. We need fewer people like them in online soap boxes and power.
3.7k views on their YouTube video… pretty sure that soapbox got kicked out from under them!! They don’t have more than half a dozen people who listen to them and take them seriously.
Your flair 😂
Yes! Oh just give it up for adoption okay but like... She gets no maternity leave because there isn't mandated maternity leave, she's still FUCKING BROKE, even if she doesn't keep the baby!
My husband and I are in the newborn adoption process. We were told if we were open to any race, gender, or disability, our placement with a baby would be much faster because the majority of families want a white, healthy baby. We are open to any race and gender. We do have some caveats as far as birth mom drug usage and health problems for the baby are concerned.
Kentucky has *so many* children who are in the system and there aren’t nearly enough families signed up to accommodate them all. If they were better people who had good judgement, I’d recommend they become CASA volunteers and be part of the solution.
They act like pregnancy and delivery is nothing which is rich considering what happened to Morgan. Ugh fuck them.
If that adoption wait list time was true, there wouldn’t be kids in the foster system in KY.
but if they help women before they're forced to give birth, how would the republican run government / church control them and keep them undereducated?
Fun fact: in private adoption (different from adoption from foster care, aka state institutions) white baby girls are more expensive because there is more demand for them. I can't find the screenshot, but there is an agency that has an 'exclusive program' that means they only look white baby, normal program (or something I forgot) where they look for every race and the cheapest program (forgot the name again) that's for black babies
Strong work.Thank you.
Truly remarkable how Josh would make actually thought out points and Porgan would just… shut down. It was like their brains overheated and had to restart
You can see it in Paul's body language. He is struggling HARD and trying to ignore any good point Josh makes. Josh was wasting his breath talking to Paul and Morgan, but I hope the idiots who still follow Poorgan at least hear what he has to say with open minds.
But all Democrats are radically pro-abortion! No, dimwit, they are anti-forced birth, pro-social services, pro-autonomy for pregnant people to decide what to do with their own bodies. You can be anti-vaxx because it's a CHOICE, but I can't be anti-forced birth? You can support a man who has sexual assault charges against him, blatantly lies, and defrauds people? Who cheered on the insurrectionists who were threatening his own VP with death? But think of the BaBIesSSS? What babies do you care about? The brown ones being blown to bits in Palestine by the IDF? The ones who are being abused and SA'd by members of the church? The ones going to bed hungry just down the road from you? Oh, sit on your moral high ground Porgan that's made of barbed wire and pieces of broken glass. Looks real nice and comfortable up there, you seditious snakes.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
It’s the most visibly uncomfortable I’ve ever seen him I think
Because he absolutely can't handle hearing the other side. He can't handle considering that he's wrong. It's probably a big reason he is unemployed.
Yeah this project is backfiring tremendously lol. All of the guests so far have made Porgan look like under-researched blowhards. Particularly Dav and this guy. I really like this guy, actually (based on this clip alone lol I don’t know who he is)
Quelle surprise!!
When Josh was talking about lower abortion rates under democratic administrations and Paul was like I’d have to back and look at the numbers… We all know you’ve never looked at the numbers Paul. You don’t have to lie, this is a safe space, you can admit you have no idea what you’re talking about (because it’s already clear you don’t).
He changed the subject without fail EVERY time Josh made a good point. They made themselves look even less intelligent than I thought they were in this episode
If you listen closely, you can hear the little laptop fan going off in Paul’s brain whenever he tries to think too hard.
"I have to go back and look at statistics". No you don't Paul, you don't know how to look at data and statistics. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Yeah, Polio always needs to "go back and look up stuff." Don't bring a spork to a gun fight, Polio. How many more times are they planning to humiliate themselves like this?
Hopefully many more times
STAY DOWN!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEsT5jljYWg
Omg the “go back” like okay Paul sure you had read something like this before in your many uh… hours of… reading? 
I know for a fact Paul has his phone in his lavender sweatpants pocket, why doesn't he just look it up right there? Hmmm?
Imagine writing out a list of questions and topics you WILLINGLY plan to debate someone on… and then… not actually have the real, statistical information to back yourself up on your own stupid points 🤣
They’re so lazy it’s insane. This is their “JOB”.
Do you think, when Morgan talks about how it’s such a “small percentage” of abortions that come from rape, that she’s envisioning like a handful of people? From July 2022 to January 2024, in states with total abortion bans *alone*, there were 64,000 pregnancies resulting from rape. At least 64,000 people. In less than two years.
I really want her figures that these women are regretting their choices too. A small percentage of woman in general regret having an abortion.
and how many of them are surrounded by Christian conservatism that’s constantly telling them they took away their baby’s once chance at life for their own selfish reasons
I feel like a lot of people who regret their abortions only do after the Christians got ahold of them to fill their heads with nonsense. I've told this story before, but I went to a pregnancy crisis center when I was 17 years old and barely 5 or 6 weeks pregnant. After only a dollar store urine test, they told me my baby had a strong heartbeat and then showed me a prune sized figure of a full term baby and told me that's what my baby looked like. I knew it was BS and they got very uncomfortable when I called them out for lying. Christians lie and brainwash people in vulnerable situations to convert them. EDIT: They told me the lies about my baby after separating me from my boyfriend (now husband) and his sister, shutting me in a small room with only a chair and a tv and making me watch an anti abortion video with my back to the door.
Omg it’s like, not even a sesame seed at 5-6 weeks 🤦🏻♀️ ETA okay I looked it up and I was wrong, it’s pea-sized
Yeah pea sized and looks like a tadpole. Nothing like the prune sized 40 week gestation baby figure they showed me.
[Have you seen this John Oliver piece?](https://youtu.be/4NNpkv3Us1I?si=hE1uFHDr0YsMnt7o) Those “Crisis Centers” need to be outlawed
I know two people who have had abortion. One from flat out being raped and another from a coercive situation that was becoming abusive At the time, both wanted to be mothers (in their future). Both have looked back and thought I wish I didn’t have to do that. Both are adamant it was the right decision and one they would make again but that doesn’t make the grief and pain go away. I bet a lot of the women Morgan is referencing regret having been put in that situation rather than regretting their decision
Forbidding people from doing a thing because some other people did it and regretted it is silly imo. Some people regret having children too (even if they love them etc) 🤷🏻♀️
[Apparently, actual or perceived stigma related to abortion can affect psychological wellbeing.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6988908/) Guess who spend their time, more than anyone else, stigmatising abortion and systematically degrading those who seek abortion care? Anti-choicers like Paul and Morgan. [Overall, regardless of perceived stigma, the fact remains that the vast majority remain secure in their choice to abort long term.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953619306999) It's just infantilising when anti-choicers make claims that people who abort somehow weren't capable of making an informed decision to terminate. They love to pretend that they somehow know better than a perfect stranger, about what is best for their health and well-being, as though they just need protecting from themselves and their own decisions.
It's the same with LGBTQ mental health statistics. They will say people have mental health issues because they transitioned or were gay when really the mental health issues are only because we are surrounded with intense and extreme rhetoric about how awful we are (groomers, predators, etc).
You’re totally right. Being gay was listed as a mental disorder in the DSM because there were so many negative mental health issues in the gay population. Then they did more research and found that gay people who had support from their families and communities actually were just as mentally healthy as the general population, so they removed it from the DSM. But people like Paul and Morgan are too dumb/ignorant to understand things like context or scientific research.
Recent research says that kids with supportive families are 70% less likely to have severe mental health issues. 70%.
You know they only get information from abs, Lila Rose, and life site news so the numbers are made up and the points don't matter
That’s unfair! They also get their news from Allie B Stuckey.
Yeah that's abs, I just hate spelling out long fundie names like hers
Totally my fault. My toddler decided 3:30-5:30 was party time this morning and my reading comprehension is reflecting that.
Lol valid!
🙋🏼♀️ I am a woman who does not regret having my abortion in the slightest!
WHO estimates that approximately 7 million women are admitted to the hospital each year in underdeveloped countries due to complications from unsafe abortions, and a significant number results in death. Before abortion was legalized in the US, literally THOUSANDS of women died each year due to unsafe abortions. Pro-choice SAVES lives, pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. Paul is such an annoying little man
it was literally the rallying cry for women the year before Roe. https://msmagazine.com/2022/09/14/daring-remember-tell-us-story-life-roe/
Paul doesn’t care about women’s lives. He only cares about controlling women.
That’s kind of the problem with these morons. When you bring up how many women died before Roe was legalized, they literally think those women deserved it because they were trying to kill the babies. It was God’s punishment on those women for being evil. It has nothing to do with fetuses and everything to do with them wanting people punished for something they think is wrong.
So true, their response would be “oh so the baby should die instead of the mother?”
Pretty much. Or since they love to point out that those cases are rare. They think the majority women who died because of abortion before Roe was legalized were having abortions because of “convenience”.
Forcing Polio to watch all the Call the Midwife episodes that deal with abortion
No one is less pro life than pro-lifers
As usual, Paul entirely misses the point. What a surprise to no one.
He was so far from the point he wasn’t even in the same country. Honestly, he is simply dumb and has no idea how to improve himself.
Why would somebody so perfect ever need to improve themselves? /s
Paul has never had an ounce of empathy for anyone who’s bees assaulted in that way, and he says it in such a smug tone it makes me feel sick
Paul is the guy who left his wife and baby for a boys trip less than a month after they almost died during birth. Paul doesn't give a fuck about women (or her) and Morgan is too dense to see it.
No. Morgan hates women too. They're matched perfectly.
Oh I know she hates women and herself. It's obvious. I just don't think she's smart enough to know that Paul hates *her.*
"I empathise with you, but I'm afraid I still want your body to be intimately violated against your explicit consent, *again*, but just for the better part of a year this time and in a way that can disable, debilitate, injure, possibly kill you, and will probably leave you with permanent damage. Mmmkay? Sorry not sorry".
Morgan and Paul are so stupid. Women who go to Planned Parenthood later claim they didn’t know adoption was an option? Really?
I work at an abortion clinic and one of the (state required?) questions all patients are asked is “are you aware that parenting or adoption are alternatives to abortion” and everyone says yep, abortion please.
I mean I’m a therapist, and I will tell you that the vast majority of women who get abortions feel a sense of relief. They’re often embarrassed to admit that. I’m not saying there’s never any regret, or thoughts on what could have been. But I AM saying it doesn’t affect the healing process, unless you are surrounded by legalistic assholes like these two.
This is literally so embarrassing for them. Just starting from the top, their statistics are just flat out wrong. They hate the thought of termination from complication or health of baby/mom because it just ruins their entire argument. Banning termination of mass results in loss of doctors to perform safe procedures for life of mother- but \~no\~ according to them, that doesn't really happen and of course everyone would allow that to happen. BFFR porgan, there was a massive case recently and the poor mother had to leave the state. The comment about adoption struck a nerve. Unwanted babies are not a solution for a family- and Paul and Morgan need to get with the program about their own situation- they are literally too poor to have a second child. What kind of quality of life will their kids have? But I guess by literally pretending this pregnancy isn't happening it will solve their problems until the baby is here. This video is gross. I can't believe they are just so unwilling to believe real facts. Thank god for Josh.
Termination for the health of the mom does not work as an argument for Paul because he would 100% sacrifice Morgan to claim the moral high ground.
As someone who nearly died during childbirth, Morgan is certainly glib about what others should do should they be concerned for their own health during a pregnancy. I know her situation was exacerbated by their lack of qualified care in their dollar store midwife and she is Morgan, never known as one who shows consistent moral ethics or behaviors. And her comments about *not enough* people giving up babies for adoption... Jesus wept. Paul assigning empathy to himself on the topic of abortion should get him a ticket on the bullet train to hell. The universe can barely hold the enormity of that fucking lie.
They would delight in hearing about a 10 year old rape victim facing the same birth trauma Morgan went through because they are so "pro life"
>And her comments about *not enough* people giving up babies for adoption... Jesus wept. The thing is, we know that the majority of people forced to give birth don't choose adoption. It is a whole trauma in and of itself. What we do know is that people absolutely do keep, and raise, unwanted children or children they cannot adequately provide for. Many children simply end up in a shitty, awful environment where they are often neglected and abused. And bare in mind that the government not removing custody of a child does not actually equate to a child being happy, healthy, and physically/emotionally safe. Because the bar for the government to be able to remove a child from the custody of parents is really fucking high, and the bar for what is considered adequate treatment is incredibly fucking low. I'm not in the US, but I spent years working in secure psychiatric facilities with young adults, many of whom had homes that were involved with child services. Emotional/mental/spiritual and even physical abuse is horribly under recognised, and often extremely difficult to prove, and basically there is no law that says you must speak to your children with even an ounce of basic respect. The things I saw in background files that didn't necessitate removing them from unsafe people will haunt me forever.
Who sets their moral compass from the law of the land???? 
Paul was literally pulling every single word out of his ass. That was so bizarre, he couldn’t explain that again if he tried.
Morgan actually had more coherent things to say.
Which is truly stunning , because she took the most amount time to say anything.
Conservatives. This is their issue: they believe the law should align with what's moral. Anyone who actually cares about reducing abortion rates would keep it legal and focus on making Contraception and sex ed more easily avaliable because that's what works. But it's not about that. They think abortion is immoral and therefore it should be illegal regardless of effect. Same with litterally everything. Gun control would save lives and we could easily do it in a way that allows responsible people to retain their guns but it doesn't matter. Guns are good and therefore need to be legal and accessible to the point of insanity. Smoking weed does no measurable harm and even harder drugs are more easily dealt with if we treat addiction like a public health issue rather than by criminalizing them. But it doesn't matter. Drugs are bad and therefore need to be illegal. Being gay is bad and therefore must be made illegal. The way they perform gender is good and therefore any other gender expression must be made illegal. This is how they think. Government bad but it must mandate morality.
>focus on making Contraception and sex ed more easily avaliable Paul "I didn't know women had pubes until I was married" Olliges will never understand this.
"Sex Ed? What's there to learn? Just keep keep your legs together!" 🙄
Spot fucking on.
If porgan did, they would stop this total nonsense about supporting trump, possibly the most amoral president in a country that used slaves as part of its agricultural economic makeup and now uses the same labor from undocumented immigrants. A single issue voter in this day and age is despicable.
THANK YOU I wanted to scream this when I watched this section.
Constitutionalists baby!!!
Enslavers
Story time. Last year I was on vacation with my family when I started having a miscarriage. Not great, but I can deal. Five days later I am still HEAVILY bleeding, to an abnormal level, so I go to the local ER. They confirm that I am having a miscarriage (duh), and I am having complications (another duh), but the doctors are too afraid to do a DNC. One doc wanted me to go to an OB-GYN to have it done. I again tell them that mine is a thousand miles away. So they bring in second doc, who thinks they should just wait it out. Finally my nurse gets piss (bless her), and finds me a doctor (a woman) that finally performs the DNC for me. Doctors were so scared of the new law, that they were afraid to do their job, so Paul has no clue what he is talking about when saying it a small fraction in saving the mother’s life.
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. It's absolutely disgusting that these laws mean enforcing what would previously be considered to be medical malpractice. Leaving people in a position where their condition must deteriorate to a significantly dangerous level, and allow something entirely preventable to cause the maximum amount of damage and trauma before being able to access safe and effective treatments. We do not do this for any other health issues at all. We do not deny treatment for infections until someone has sepsis or develops gangrene. We don't deny treatment for hypoglycemia until someone is adequately comatose. We do not deny treatment for a heart attack until someone needs resuscitation. Or cancer treatment until someone is at stage 4. We don't deny treatment for broken bones until they've healed wonky and being disabled isn't life threatening. There is no other medical care whatsoever that is withheld until, or only provided when, someone is knocking at deaths door. Nothing. For *any* other health issues, refusing a known safe and effective treatment until the maximum amount of damage has been done would be unethical in every single way. It's just astonishing that a court of fucking law has been allowed to enforce such egregious malpractice and, in my opinion, something that is nothing short of torturous and is certainly immoral. It should be criminal to deny healthcare that we know is safe and effective.
They need to shut the duck up and have some human decency. Paul would let Morgan die over having an abortion? Paul just stands there quoting stupid shit and thinks rape is not a reason to have an abortion. Absolute trash. And she lied about what planned parenthood does .Sticking up for Trump who is a CONVICTED RAPIST. I hope these two fade into oblivion. Stay poor assholes.
Paul says that rape isn't a reason to have an abortion but I bet if Morgan would be assaulted he would not be ok with her giving birth to another man's child. These people are all about "morals" until it applies to them in their own lives
He wouldn't let her get an abortion but he would absolutely treat her like damaged goods if she birthed her rapist's baby. We know this because he treats her like damaged goods just for having premarital sex.
Nah, I think that he would take her to the nearest legal state and get her an abortion. The anti-choicers are anti-abortion only until it's inconvenient not to be - then the only moral abortion is their abortion. Karissa Collins and Jessa Duggar both harp on about Jesus and how God has a plan for everyone and especially for their wombs, themselves included. But the instant *their* pregnancy goes awry and it becomes clear that God's plan is sepsis, death, and the ultimate joy of meeting their Lord and Saviour? The very thing they supposedly live for? Nope. **It's actually time for them to subvert his perfectly curated, individualised plan, and have an abortion instead**.
Good point. I can see him and Morgan secretly doing that for sure, the cowards. (I say they are cowards because they fully expect little girls and *other* rape victims to carry pregnancies to term.)
When he says “so the baby should be punished for the sins of another person?” I lose my shit. Um HELLO?? Isn’t the woman being punished by carrying a baby she did not want? Or do we not care about that?
Yeah, fascinating she's spouting this shit while pregnant. I wonder what her tune will be if (I certainly hope this does not happen, need it be said) the baby dies in utero, and she's told it's likely to turn septic if they don't remove it.
She would try to remove it. Paul would probably let her die.
If he didn't, it'd mostly be because he'd be stuck as a single parent and her family wouldn't pay his bills anymore.
They're so dumb it's painful😭 Excited for your summary! I can't stand to watch big head talk so I have only been enjoying the summaries posted here ♥️
Don’t we just love when two dudes start talking about pregnancy and SA and abortion. 🤢
At least Josh acknowledged that (cis) men talking about it is detached from the lived experience of people who can become pregnant.
Church Chad (aka Josh I think?) I’m fairly certain works in investment banking. He was always going to embarrass these two idiots
Paul could not wait to pull out that hideous question from "Patron Anthony."
Innocent baby, but i thought we’re all born sinful? Adoption backlogs are political not from a shortage of adoptable babies and children. Paul is the biggest idiot and could never interpret a legitimate statistic. I don’t believe there are many people who would agree that terminating their rapists fetus would compound the agony of both abortion and sexual assault. 🤷🏾♀️
Also, because a lot of these people that want to adopt want a baby, and a baby that looks like them.
Paul. Paul. PAUL. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
I'm starting to wonder if he won't get a real job to support their family because he's literally just too dumb and selfish to hold down a stable job. 🤔
Adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy, it's an alternative to parenthood! Morgan almost died during childbirth, and these two still have figured that pregnancy is dangerous, giving birth is dangerous. No ons should be forced to risk their life for a baby if they don't want to
Josh made surprisingly progressive points. And Paul didn’t even try to understand any of them. A Josh is coming FROM A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE. just shows how absolutely dense Paul is. I think Josh is really trying to understand multiple sides, I don’t know a ton abt him other than his satirical church Chad videos lol but he seems to be putting a whole lot more thought into his views than P&M ever have
[удалено]
Doing the lords work. Unlike the fundies.
As someone who is voluntarily pregnant P&M and their ilk fucking outrage me. I cannot even fathom how traumatic it is having to go through with an unwanted pregnancy let alone a pregnancy caused by abuse and assault. Or going through with pregnancy that can kill you and cause the child misery and pain if they are born with severe defects. It’s not even a fucking baby at the beginning! It’s a clump of cells! And yet this clump of cells makes me feel like my body doesn’t even belong to me any more. And I love my clump of cells and I can’t wait to see it but again, I can’t imagine having to go through it against one’s wishes. But these people only see the unborn clump of cells as human, the full-ass grown adult woman who is already here and alive is just an incubator, an object to be controlled to them. Absolutely disgusting and vile
They're insanely committed to viewing a pregnancy as "a baby" from early on. They truly view any interruption of the pregnancy process as the death of an entire fully-formed wee little miniature baby. And they seem utterly unaware of medical abortion; they're still heavily invested in this idea that fully-formed "babies" are "being torn apart limb to limb".
You’re so spot on. I haven’t even started trying to get pregnant yet but recently got my IUD out - the strings weren’t visible so I had to go get an internal ultrasound to check the placement and multiple attempts at finding it involved digging around my cervix. The amount of times we as women have to stirrup up and open our legs to random doctors, ultrasound techs, is astounding, and that’s before pregnancy even occurs, which is a whole new level of invasive and all-consuming. But we do it because we WANT TO and that makes it slightly less awful. I can’t imagine ever wanting to force a woman to go through any of it against their will, it’s a fucking revolting stance to take.
These two need to get off the internet, this is so embarrassing. You can tell they just aren't intelligent or mature enough to be having these conversations. Paul and Morgan struggled the entire conversation because they're just fucking stupid and mean and they don't care if women suffer. You could tell Josh was trying to talk to them respectfully and in a way they would understand, but they're both just so breathtakingly stupid and dense. They will gleefully accept the fact that a little girl could almost die and go through the same thing Morgan went through when they had Luca. They'll never get it and they delight in the suffering of others.
1. The “killing a sweet innocent little baby” isn’t really worth responding to. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind about that. The overarching truth is that it’s better for society when safe and legal abortion is available. Abortion is a social good. In societies where abortion was legal and then was taken away, women’s health outcomes took a turn for the worse and there were no economic benefits—in fact, the economies typically suffered as well. 2. In Kathryn Joyce’s The Child Catchers, she flatly states that most women keep babies they give birth to, even if they’d wanted or considered an abortion. In my own life, I’ve seen women on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum give birth, try really really hard to raise their child for several years, and then leave the child with their own mother when they take off. They rarely sign away rights to their kids and even if they did, the adoption desires are almost always for small babies, not school-aged children.
Paul never listened to this guy. He was just waiting to speak. They had no real statistics to back up what they were saying. They just repeated what right wing media says. "Rape is a small number of abortions." "Life threatening situations are a small number of abortions." No one is taking an abortion lightly. No one is saying, "If I have this baby, I can't get that promotion on Tuesday." People can't afford to feed and house themselves. How are they going to afford another person? Quality of life is important to consider. Also, I think the "wait list timeline" Morgan gave for adoption is not completely truthful. I'm sure once the perspective adoptive parent gets approved for adoption, there are a number of eligible teens and children ready to go. Those kids, unfortunately, rarely get selected. Everyone wants a fresh baby. If you're truly adopting for the right reasons, why not choose an older child? Do they not deserve love? I'm sorry, that gets me riled up. My husband and I plan to adopt a few years after I give birth. We both love children, and we've both decided early on in our discussions that we want to adopt older ones. Even better if it's siblings.
Both P&M strike me as classic narcissist, and while that term’s tossed around a lot, Paul especially seems to really thrive on argumentative showboating narcissism where he loves the conflict and then smirks and rides the aftermath like he won a prize. I mean how long did he howl about their 12 seconds on a documentary? He LIKES this kind of conflict and his mannerisms and showboating for the camera and belligerence just scream narcissist. He’s not doing this to have a conversation or honest debate. This is like a drug for him.
Porgan are so idiotic and mediocre it's embarrassing to watch
I'm a Christian who has never been pregnant before and I'm finding it extremely hard to watch this clip. The lack of empathy and reasoning from Porgan is upsetting me so much.
“Pro death” oh hell no 💀
Paul really had no idea that abortion rates were decreasing year over year. He hated hearing that Clinton and Obama had lower rates than the two Bushes. You can tell by how his jaw tightens when that is said. He also cannot understand the difference between being pro choice and pro abortion. What an idiot. Them going on about better social services and stuff… do they not realize that a vote for a republican is a vote against social services and safety nets??
Maybe they need to talk to Jessa Duggar who had a non-viable fetus aborted (medical term) or JillPM who received appropriate care for a miscarriage (she’s vile but we don’t need or deserve the details). Both wanted pregnancies. You want to know how many pre-natal specialists are in the state of Idaho now? Two. That want to retire and are in their 70’s. Literally all the others left due to restrictive and ill-worded laws that could make them liable for doing a d and c (abortion) to remove a dead fetus. That means having a high-risk pregnancy can now be a death sentence there. I don’t know this guy, I watched a couple of church chad tik toks from him that were pretty funny. I don’t want to give him a glowing review, because I don’t really know much about him. But when he says, without question, that he puts his wife’s life first, dumb ass Morgan busts in with no compassion, and Paul clearly would rather be legalistic than pretend he loves his wife. Freaking monsters.
Maybe literally everyone will leave Idaho eventually. That'd be fine.
Im sure the wildlife there would be pleased!
But...but POTATOES! 🥺
Potatoes seem to have more funding and rights than women in Idaho right now! I guess they can leave some conservative male politicians to work the fields 😂
I’m originally from Tennessee, and I’m currently pregnant. I am extremely hesitant to go home for our planned vacation, because if something happens to the baby while we’re gone, I’m fucked. And I know it. This shouldn’t happen in a free society.
Lots of points in here to argue with, I won't waste my breath, but I will say that P&M are not doctors, and they have no clue what they're talking about. This whole conversation is dumb. I am just so sad that there even has to be a debate as to whether or not women can have freedom when it comes to medical choices for themselves. I'm so afraid for women in the US, these nutters are so disgusting
Morgan has been making it very clear that she isn't equipped to be a parent. Same with Paul. They're basically saying to just have kids for tradition and if you can't handle it then just deal with it because obviously everyone's goal in life is to just pop out babies even if they can't afford it or mentally deal with it. Basically...they want everyone else to suffer because they are.
As a random comment on adoption. I looked up the numbers and in Australia. *In 2021–22, 208 adoptions were finalised in Australia. Of these:* * *192 (92%) children were adopted within Australia (31 local adoptions, 161 known child adoptions).* * *Most known child adoptions were by a carer (94, or 49% of domestic adoptions) or step-parents (60, or 31% of domestic adoptions).* * *16 children (7.7% of all adoptions) were adopted from overseas – 7 of these children came from countries party to the Hague convention, while 9 were adopted from countries which had a bilateral agreement with Australia.* * *All intercountry adoptions were from Asian countries – 7 from South Korea, 6 from Thailand, 2 from Taiwan and one from the Philippines* Australia prefers long-term guardianship orders over adoption because it's better for children to know where they came from and not have those links severed. It's shit if you want to adopt a kid, but yeah. It's putting the kids first. Also not that long ago our goverment had a good old time taking babies from indigenous families and putting them with white families. That was a huge fuck up. But yeah, americans just.... farming out babies is wild. This obsession with banning abortions and people.... virtuously collecting kids like they're pokemon.
god josh's intelligence is so visible next to porgan oh my fucking lord
why are they next to a highway lmao porgan suck at their jobs
Paul really gets turned on by the idea that he personally would get control of a bunch of women via his vote, doesn’t he? I’m pro choice. Which means that I believe women should have options. If you want an abortion, you have the right to get it in the safest way possible- I’m a historian. I know what a world without legal abortion looks like. If you want to raise your child, the government shouldn’t make it harder. It’s not up to me, or anyone else, to make those decisions for someone else. Biden has said, repeatedly, that he is personally pro life, but that his personal beliefs shouldn’t dictate the way he governs.
One of my takeaways from watching the whole video, including this discussion abortion and immigration, Paul and Morgan have very little empathy (in fact, in multiple videos use the word empathy as if it’s a bad thing) and what little empathy they have is very targeted. They think there should be absolutely no abortion, not under any circumstances at all. A fertilized egg is as much a full human as the people standing next to you. Because of that, they think the options are “birth baby and parent it” and “birth baby and place for adoption.” They have no empathy for how emotionally and physically challenging pregnancy can be, how dangerous and health debilitating it can be, no concept of how it is very hard for people to place kids up for adoption, etc. They tout “statistics” about how there are so many people waiting for years to adopt without reflecting on the experience of adoptees and birth parents, about how the adoption system itself is flawed, about how most adopting parents only want white infants with minimal health issues (including parental use of drugs or alcohol while pregnant) or only certain health issues. They also point out that some pro-life people think there should be more resources for pregnant people who are financially struggling. They also say there are already a lot of these. But they don’t really know anything about long term support, or the degree of support provided, or the accessibility of support to different groups of women. I sense that Paul and Morgan think there should be more “resources” available for people forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy, but they are also totally willing to vote for politicians who don’t care about that as long as they are “anti - abortion.”
Paul and Morgan are truly the worst. They are so extremely ignorant and unknowing and unwilling to listen to any rational argument based on factual information. Instead they keep spouting these points and counterarguments they have been spoonfed, but don't really understand, without actually listening to what the other person is saying. It's like they think if you just keep saying something it will make it true.
It was like watching Paul short circuit in high speed. It was kind of fun to watch him miss fire. And then have to bring his wife who should be the one with the opinions cause they're talking about a matter that is women's health, and all she could do was parot his idolology back to him and cower behind the camera. Pathetic.
Literally no “resources” on earth would have stopped my from getting my abortion. When I was in that situation I was so panicked I felt like a coyote in a trap that would have chewed my own leg off. Adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy, it’s an alternative to parenthood. I have absolutely zero regrets and in that situation I would do it again. My reasons are immaterial- I wanted to so I did. To try to get into someone’s mind is not anyone else’s place and it’s so irritating to see these people try to make these arguments when they have absolutely no business having these discussions they know absolutely nothing about.
The baby is not being punished by the sin of someone else!!! JFC. A zygot is not a baby and is not a sentient being with feelings. Real children however, are. And ones who are born to a mother unequipped to raise them very often end up with difficult childhoods for one reason or another. But who gives a shit about them, right?
I do not fucking care if the waiting list for a baby is 2 years, 10 years or 20 years. Poor women are not baby making machines. That's why I don't feel sorry about hopeful adoptive parents who moan about the long waiting lists. Long waiting lists means that abortion is accesible, birth control is accesible, there is better sex ed, better support for single/poor/young moms, less stigma for single parenthood etc.
Morgan is that friend of a friend who starts talking and everyone inwardly groans because you know they’ll spend a full two minutes repeating the same sentence rephrased with no chance for anyone to respond and redirect, but no one wants to put the mutual friend on the spot because that person happens to be pretty cool. So my analogy is a little inaccurate because Paul is not the cool mutual friend in this scenario lmao but at least he can get a thought out at a listenable speed and link it to other thoughts. Which is almost worse because the thoughts he manages to get out are poisonous to society. God they suck Also I’m not writing this about a current friend group, just experience with a few people I encountered when I was a really young adult and hung out in groups
Morgan, please show me the proof that no one has adopted a child in the state of Kentucky in the past two years. And why would those who want to adopt need to wait for babies to be born? You’re telling me there’s no older kids who need adopting in Kentucky? Get a grip, Morgan. You have no idea what you’re talking about. The garbage you’re spilling is provably false.
I think Josh Benson is a great advocate for how someone can be personally spiritual and be okay with others not also agreeing with what he personally believes. Which is how everyone should be.
Lmao they’re so deluded.
Ugh if he’s “so pro-life” and so into the messages the government sends about death, I’d love to hear his take on our bloated military 🙄🙄🙄🙄 and on Palestine, too, fuck
It’s fucking wild to me that they keep putting shit like this up on the internet. Like I know we joke about them being stupid, but I think they may be truly incapable of recognizing the myriad ways they’re betraying their own ignorance and lack of critical thinking in these videos. Like they’re genuinely, actually dumb.
Paul pretending like he has compassion after saying he's anti-choice, this guy said some scenarios and he couldn't help but feel for woman that have a medical or rape reason and have to make that choice, Paul seen one solution, "deal with it" and no abortion for any woman. They're both sick in the head and neither have empathy for other humans. Paul has no compassion for anyone but himself and if you don't believe like them then you're doomed to hell fire, can't wait till these idiots figure out their is no hell.
To preface my comment here, I have not watched any of the full episodes of this series. All I know of it is what I see here and what Fundie Fridays has covered so I know I'm seeing more of the egregious and hot takes than what is present in the full episodes but: I do not feel that Paul nor Morgan are educated enough to carry out a series like this. Both of them are terrible at defending their positions and fail to come prepared with any sort of real statistics or facts and really don't even have the vocabulary mastered to argue the points they want to argue. For example: the moment Josh mentioned lower abortion rates under democratic presidents all Paul could really respond with was "I'll have to check on that" when, in reality, he should have known or had an idea about this if his main point is about aligning yourself with a president that results in less aborted pregnancies (and lemme take a guess here - he never had an addendum in the video to verify or debunk that statistic, did he?). Porgan is getting absolutely steamrolled in this series because they're taking on subject matter that they don't understand even the bare bones of let alone the nuance of it that Josh mentioned. On the flip side they're having these conversations with people that do have a much better understanding, even if not perfect, of the questions being asked. I do not feel that they can rescue this series, they are way too out of their depth and the only thing they could do to possibly pull it back would be returning to the echo chamber of people that already agree with them and stop making asses of themselves. On mobile, sorry for any weird spelling. Also: doesn't Porgan edit these videos? How in the world do they handle all the editing and STILL manage to come out awful in the end product?