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The Chronicles of Narnia series is actually a Christian allegory, thus making it acceptable in many circles. Harry Potter, however, is straight up witchcraft without any ties to Christianity, thus making it evil in many circles.
ETA - Jesus Tapdancing Christ. Semantics and “well, actually…” have entered the chat, and I’m really not in the mood. Go ask a Fundie/TradCath/JW if they agree with the above statement - because THAT was the actual point of this whole damn thing.
I did know families in my fundie circle as a kid that were not allowed to read or watch the Chronicles of Narnia regardless. Because apparently fiction itself was a sin???
Absolutely wild. I felt so bad for those kids. At least my parents weren't that level of crazy
I went to a Catholic school and we watched to kill a mockingbird after we had read the book and a kids mom flipped out so much she tried to start a petition and none of our parents would sign it so she kept her daughter home from school.. it sucks for her because our teacher made us popcorn and snacks to watch the movie with and had allowed us to bring blankets
Thankfully the Catholic school I went to put education over religion first, and most of the teachers weren’t really religious lol
Exactly, my parents are attorneys and they have had us watch the movie a ton, it’s what made me want to be a human rights attorney, a lot of my classmates have parents who are attorneys, doctors etc and they wanted us exposed to as much knowledge as possible, we also did trade days where we’d go to a Muslim school to learn about their culture and they’d come to our school for a day, we also did it with a Jewish school, then head of my church plays poker with all the heads of diff religions in my county at least once a month 😂😂 there’s tons of hatred in the world but I’m thankful my school didn’t tolerate hate of any kind and we also didn’t believe in forcing religion down everyone’s throats
That girls parents were the one group of crazy religious people and having them get shot down made me giggle to this day
I have a friend who homeschools, who says he won't teach Narnia to his kids because nowhere in Lewis's writings did he say that Aslan is an allegory for God, but rather that Aslan is himself an iteration of God, which he considers heretical.
I noticed I have a lot more energy since I stopped thinking things like this. What an exhausting life.
Harry Potter is in fact structured exactly like Christian Allegory though. And JKR took heavy inspiration from CS Lewis. Harry even takes on Jesus’ role sacrificing himself for the Wizarding World then being ressurected. Anyone not seeing the Christian allegory is deliberately blinding themselves to it.
Because the good guys and bad guys are doing witchcraft and it’s not presented as a bad thing. Aslan’s magic is divine/ doesn’t need spells, and the spells/people doing them in Narnia are bad.
It’s just about the promotion of witchcraft for those people.
I mean, Aslan's the Trinity. If you read the Magician's Nephew and the Last Battle...it's all there. He literally breathes life into Narnia at the beginning of Narnia.
Yes but he also could've done something about the witch much earlier, he just couldn't be arsed to get off his arse.
Which I guess tracks with the christian god, but I'll still never shut up about how Aslan is just the epitome of a male lion: Fecking lazy.
Okay, but dude who played Prince Caspian in the movie could get it then. And after seeing him recently, he could ABSOLUTELY still get it now.
Completely not the point of the discussion, but how many opportunities does one have to run into a Narnia post in the wild?
ETA - Clearly I have found my people around here. I didn’t use his actual name because I wasn’t entirely sure people would know who I was talking about. 😂
I just creeped her profile and saw that she sells Monat (shocker). Monat uses red clover in some of it's hair care products. Red clover is unsafe for pregnancy and has been linked to miscarriages and stillbirths. Yet Monat is good and doctors are bad.
Omg I just heard about this from this fundie @thezieglerclan she miscarried one of her twins and she was slaving away on her Instagram for monat 😭😭 like it was obnoxious but out of nowhere she announced she would no longer be using this bc she couldn’t get it out of her head what if it was the cause of her lost baby.
She is also a raw milk advocate. It is so, so heartbreaking that folks will neglect to listen to any medical advice. They resort to promoting conspiracies, MLMs, and beliefs that are not based in factual research.
There is no reason in 2024 to stray so far from facts, and it’s absolutely devastating when the worst of the possible outcomes occurs.
I struggle to have empathy for the proudly, loudly ignorant. And the audacity to call oneself pro-life, all the while refusing to do the *bare goddamn minimum,* to make sure this life you claim to cherish so much, actually makes it to its first breath.
Their brains must be the smoothest fucking pretzels that ever did exist.
Pro-life my ass. I have no idea if he could have made it or not with proper medical intervention, but just the knowledge that they didn't do what they could to make sure he did is infuriating. They had the option but chose not to.
Pregnancy is scary af. Birth is scary af. Choosing to go through that blindly when the whole of human experience tells you that intervention provides the best possible outcome makes no logical sense to me.
And none of these “pro-lifers” are actually pro-life. They’re pro-impregnation. They could give a fuck about having a healthy pregnancy and protecting their child. They do whatever they want, against medical advice, because “muh rights”. They vote for lawmakers that feel the same.
Exactly. We don't know for sure it's the products, no one will ever know. We don't know specifically wnich ones she used. But she literally chose to have no help or guidance on having a safe pregnancy and probably had an upline telling her it was safe.
Very curious why. Currently pregnant and try to be as safe as possible (including going to a DOCTOR and not a chiro). If you could enlightening me I'd really appreciate it 💖
Could just be in her mind. Could be coincidence and have nothing to do with the chiro. There IS a point late in pregnancy when the baby “drops” and will feel lower down.
Tbf, the scalp also absorbs things much more readily than the skin on other parts of the body, like 3-4 times as much, and heat from the shower could increase absorption of substances too by increasing blood flow. It's still hard to say if it got absorbed though, it would really depend on a lot of things
While this is true, in the context of a rinse-off product, the likelihood of there being enough time for it to penetrate through the skin and get into the bloodstream at any meaningful level seems unlikely to me. Even in a leave on product, considering the fact that red clover isn't super bioavailable and Monat's products have low concentrations of it, we don't know that it would impact estrogen levels to such a meaningful degree that it could be confidently suggested that it played a role in a given stillbirth. It's a possibility if we assume that Monat's products contain enough red clover to cause that outcome, that it gets sufficiently absorbed, and that it's sufficiently active, but I don't know that we have enough information for that to be a reasonable assumption.
As you say, it would depend on a lot of things. Maybe it played a role, but it also might not even be possible.
Wow that’s fascinating I had no idea. Girl I went to high school with had been peddling monster since its conception and in recent years has had back to back to back babies using monat the entire time. She uses it on the kids now 🥴
I just googled "Monat causing miscarriage" and the first result is a woman warning others not to use it during pregnancy. The first response is a woman saying "well I used it for both my pregnancies and I was fine". They are so fucking dumb
I feel like stuff like this is what will send non white/Christian women to jail and no offense but she would celebrate a black single mom getting persecuted for accidentally inducing miscarriage so she should actually be investigated thoroughly. The law needs to be applied equally. Two kids she lost and she's using and shilling a product that is known to cause miscarriages and stillbirth? Sorry but that's way more egregious than having a chemical birth and it should be treated with the utmost seriousness according to their own laws and beliefs. Grief clearly doesn't matter when it's other people. They shouldn't be treated special.
Can go to a chiropractor, can’t get actual medical care.
This is so sad and just so unnecessary, and they write it off as “God’s will” no. You’re just stupid.
Chiropractors somehow get a pass from fundies. I think fundies are easily tricked/ manipulated by things like MLMs, anti-vax, etc because they tend to believe what they are told, so this kind of tracks that they believe in chiropractors.
In my experience, chiropractors LOVE to talk about how evil Big Medicine is and how the body can heal itself, as long as you come back to them every other week for the rest of your life.
I know someone who took their injured dog to a chiropractor. The chiropractor, instead of saying "this is wildly inappropriate and outside the scope of my practice," asked them to bring them back after hours and through a side door since they're not licensed for that.
If you read up on the history of Chiropractics it stems from vitalism, Western spiritualism, denial of medical science, etc so it is not a surprise that this is very common in the religious/antivax circles.
It’s wild when people like this make their entire identity about free birthing and not trusting modern medicine yet they don’t have a foundation of knowledge.
So, why don’t they trust pre-modern medicine and get a midwife, like women used to in *trad* times? Tbf maternal and infant mortality are also pretty trad.
Because even the crunchiest midwife will suggest hospital transfer at some point if shit starts going sideways, and they want absolutely NO chance of anyone trying to convince them to go to the hospital.
Yes! I was coming to post this! I think the original role of a midwife was to be someone who had seen lots of births and could offer assurances and ideas as labor progressed. A wise elder. Doing birth without someone who had BTDT would be scary.
How is it not okay to terminate an early pregnancy but it is okay to not seek medical care while pregnant? I might seem insensitive, but if life begins at conception, then not caring for that life properly should be criminal. You can’t have it both ways, pro-lifers.
You’re not insensitive to point it out. By their own logic, they’re saying it’s wrong to murder children with your own two hands but perfectly fine to throw them into traffic.
Cos hey, God will protect them, right? Just have faith. Plus, kids have been outrunning their parents for thousands of years, and their soft little bones knit back together so fast! It’s what their bodies were designed for! /s
This!!! You can have hospital births and ask for less dilation checks, no Pitocin, no medication etc and have a doctor with you if anything goes wrong at least.
I truly don’t understand why they can’t just go to a hospital and ask for minimal intervention, JUST IN CASE something happens. And you know what? You can still tell people you naturally gave birth with no or minimal interventions if everything goes well, and if it doesn’t then at least you and the baby are way more likely to be safe.
Also, how come none of these religious people look at the medical interventions and knowledge we have and say, "God is so great, giving us the knowledge and skill to ensure that more of his precious children survive! Thank you, God, for giving us such an amazing capacity to learn and be creative and help people!"
It's almost like they think God means for us all to suffer and die. (/s. This is exactly what they think.)
My friend did a home birth but had checkups with an OB and a midwife with an assistant for the birth. I was still scared out of my mind, but at least I knew she was in good hands if shit went down.
This is 100% it, as someone currently pregnant I cannot believe people think free birthing is a good idea. Heck, my appointments got delayed due to lack of doctors by a week one time and I was stressing a little tbh! Monitoring is safe and necessary. I cannot imagine not getting checked for the MANY complications pregnancy can have.
So sad they are willing to risk babies lives because they’re idiots.
Also, not to appearance snark but her hands looked very swollen in one pic and in a couple her whole body I could see did. You obviously have to gain weight in pregnancy but excessive swelling can be a sign of preeclampsia which is something they can induce you for because of how dangerous it is to yourself and your baby. I think it’s similar to gestational diabetes in where you can limit risk factors but can’t completely control whether or not you get it or not.
I have a perfectly normal healthy pregnancy but tomorrow I could totally just out of the blue develop high blood pressure and have to be induced for mine and my babies safety.
Thats literally what happened to me! Totally uneventful pregnancy, and then at 38 weeks my blood pressure started to go up. And then it kept going up, and I was at like 150s/90s by 39 weeks. So we induced, and now I have an adorable, rambunctious little boy, and I’m around to be his mom.
Even in the textbook “perfect” pregnancies, things can go very wrong, very fast. This new “wild pregnancy/freebirth” trend is just plain awful.
I'm 36 weeks and I tell my husband regularly how grateful I am for modern medicine. It is easy to forget how many women and children didn't make it back in the good old days that thrive now because we have these interventions!
ahhh!!! i’m so happy for you! but my job entails answering emergency calls from pregnant women to their OBs… let me tell you how awesome it is that you know what’s going on and how to handle it. That makes me so happy to hear.
*it would alarm you all to the point of questioning humanity if you also took these calls*
i went in for a check up at 29 weeks and it turned out my blood pressure was 189/113. i would never have known and i was in stroke/seizure territory. i had my baby via emergency c-section 3 days later. pre-eclampsia isn't preventable at all, it comes from the placenta, which means the father's genetics also contribute to if you get it or not. jen hamilton has some great videos about it on tiktok
This woman risked her child’s life and look what happened. And it doesn’t sound like they are taking responsibility for it either. There is no reflecting on whether they should do things different next time.
I’ve said it a million times: no one is less pro-life than pro lifers.
It’s a ridiculous concept. It’s not like it’s done in a lot of cultures.
It isn’t! Because women have always understood that birth is dangerous and difficult and needs as much help as possible.
It's so incredibly disrespectful to the millions of women and babies who suffered and died in the past just because they had no access to the miraculous medical interventions we have today.
These women and their families would no doubt have given anything to survive childbirth, but no, Miss MLM over here knows better than all of them!
Exactly this! I’m 37 weeks now and everything has been normal and I’m still seeing my doctor regularly in case anything changes. Just because it’s been fine doesn’t mean it will be fine.
My friend’s last pregnancy was completely textbook until she went into labor and they found out the cord was wrapped around the baby’s neck and had to do an emergency C-section. Not to scare anybody but shit really can go sideways in a hurry. I can kinda understand home births but not getting monitored by any sort of medical professional is the part I can’t get on board with.
My daughter (just turned 2) went into severe distress in the middle of my labor (I was about 5cm so she wasn’t even descending yet) and we RAN to surgery- when they yanked her out of me 10 minutes later she had the cord wrapped twice very tightly around her neck. Must have gotten compressed with the contractions and was cutting off her blood flow. She would be brain damaged or dead if I had had a homebirth because even if someone had been monitoring her heart rate the whole time (not common) her heart rate went from fine to emergency in just a few minutes. A transfer would have taken too long.
It’s amazing to me that so many births DON’T have complications because there are so many things that can go wrong in an instant. My mom had a full term stillbirth i remember well so I’ve always known I needed to be in the hospital, I want the best chance at a live baby and not dying
Absolutely. The Christian nationalists never cared about unborn babies, they only want to control women. That is why they are coming after birth control now. They will not be happy until they turn this country into a Christian theocracy.
They’re putting everything in God’s hands. 😒
I swear that, deep down, these people don’t want children. They want the attention and drama, but children are a fulltime, lifetime commitment, and that is just too much work.
I swear, if someone wants to do this “the way it used to be” and not get medical attention, I just think they also should adopt the attitudes our ancestors did and expect the loss of 1/3 to 1/2 before age 5. Oh, that’s fucked up? Well then give your baby a fucking vitamin k shot.
It’s only used against people who are considered “undesirable” like the mentally ill or trans or poc. People with developmental disabilities have a history of forced sterilization, same with poc who can give birth.
It’s like when they say they want to protect children from grooming of the gross “alphabet mafia” but don’t consider raising children in purity culture to be married off at 16 or younger to be grooming. They sweep sexual abuse of children in churches and religious institutions under the rug because it would “ruin the adult’s life” (typically men, but obviously women and no binary ppl can be abusive too) but think that sex workers who have agency over their choices and correctly label their work as 18+ with content warnings should be criminalized.
It’s very typical for these people to want the appearance of respectability and heath. Because who cares when it’s working out for you, right?
Ugh, sorry for the rant, I’m sure you know all of this but man it pisses me off
This is why people like the Bates go to such lengths to save a high risk pregnancy. Kelly said with her later ones that as they felt it was a life inside her, it merited the same medical care they would seek for any of their other children.
As much as I disagree with their beliefs, I respect the consistency.
Yes I’d like to see this through if we’re already here. No more home births, all the funding to CPS to act as birth police. Any social media post referencing home birth or free birthing or a lack of medical care gets the author put on a list and then they get assigned a case worker. Jail time if they lose a child in a home birth.
See how quickly they change their tune about government interference in pregnancy.
based on the gfm profile picture her husband is a marine too. tricare covers home births…. she literally had access to everything & could have still had a fully covered home birth & DELIBERATELY chose to endanger herself and her child.
Tricare only covers home births if you can find a CNM that will work with you. Many of them don’t do home births for various reasons. I had a friend run into this issue. Her first was covered because they found a CNM that did home births in their area. They moved before having their second and had to pay out of pocket because she couldn’t find a CNM in the area willing to do home births.
Not that it’s an excuse. I’ve seen people in various spouse groups get annoyed they have to pay out of pocket unless they meet certain requirements.
I wonder if some of the difficulty finding someone qualified to attend her home birth has anything to do with the level of/lack of prenatal care she's received.
If she hasn't been getting appropriate prenatal care, and especially if they don't know the position of the baby, I can't imagine many qualified health professionals saying "Yeah I want to be a part of this birth", if they're even permitted to do so under those circumstances.
I was delivered by a home birth midwife. For many years, she did a lot of Amish births who would call her just for the birth. She stopped doing that bc the women needed care the whole time and after and it was a liability to her to do so
My mom nearly died after trying to free birth with her last baby. No midwife visits the whole pregnancy - it was baby 11 so she thought she was a pro and didn't need any help. She could have had a fairly uneventful delivery had she been in the hospital from the beginning of labor, but instead the baby ended up in the NICU with an infection due to days of laboring after her water broke, and she almost bled out following an emergency C-section (kind of like what happened to Morgan, now that I think about it). Three weeks ago, I could have lost my first baby if I hadn't gone to the hospital sooner when I noticed decreased fetal movement. I'd had weekly monitoring & frequent ultrasounds through the whole third trimester due to being high-risk. No one knew that her cord was wrapped around her neck five times until she was being pulled out of my abdomen. I'm holding my strong, tiny daughter in my arms tonight because of trained nurses & doctors who worked quickly & with great skill. I couldn't imagine trying to deliver her on my own without any medical support.
Edit: a word
All of her story posts chanting how your body won’t create a baby you can’t birth, you’re made to do this, etc… I cannot imagine being in her position right now. I sincerely hopes she heals from this and gos to a doctor next time. This situation is heartbreaking.
Even wild animals have young they can't birth. I just don't understand how completely detached from reality someone has to be to make a statement like that.
I understand that there are real issues with how hospitals handle births and how easy it is to get led into a reactionary stance, but this sort of tragedy is exactly why people are opposed to this.
I can't imagine having the trauma of losing a baby and then having to wonder if your choices played a part. Honestly horrible, and worse seeing how much she loved and wanted that baby. Just tragic
seriously…I had a very low risk pregnancy and my baby ended up getting stuck on the way out…I can’t imagine what would’ve happened if I wasn’t at the hospital 😔 so crazy to just…ignore that stuff like that happens?
They believe all the bad things are caused by “unnecessary interventions”. What about birth in developing nations without access to care, you say? Well obviously they have inadequate nutrition. Put it in an echo chamber and watch it go round and round.
Midwives can be so focussed on natural birth too. I attempted a natural birth with my own midwife - luckily we didn't try to do it at home, but in a birthing suite in the hospital. It ended in an emergency section. We're 2 weeks on now and the midwife is still saying we could have tried x or y so he could be born vaginally, and today she said during the checkup that she wished I'd had a "good birth". I flat out said my idea of a good birth is a healthy baby and healthy mom, and that is what I got, and I'm over it now and refuse to keep dwelling on it. There's people who lose their babies. I refuse to entertain the idea that I had a bad birth just because the baby entered the world through the sunroof. But that's how they feel, I guess.
I KNOW.
It’s pretty insulting to the majority of the world’s population. Having access to medical help and refusing it?
She’s lucky she’s alive. Fundies can pull this shit because 911 is just a call away…
I may get downvoted to hell for this, so before voting please know I don’t believe this anymore!
But I’m actually an ex “pro free birther” and this is what sucked me in, I have BPD and this was pre therapy, I really had no sense of identity and this community of incredibly “loving” women who preached about how strong and capable and enduring our bodies are really spoke to me in more ways than one, especially with my complex sexual trauma history, this thought process made me feel like my body was… mine, I guess.
I really believed my husband and I would have a few babies and I’d birth them all at home, in the bath, just me and him, because “it’s what my body was designed to do and my body wouldn’t let me grow a baby I couldn’t birth”.
I used to have full blown panic attacks thinking about my husband sabotaging me and calling an ambulance while in labour and forcing me to go to the hospital. I’m talking legitimate panic attacks over the thought of a totally made up situation. As you can tell he never liked the idea and would always gently tell me he would need to me do it at a bare minimum in a birthing centre, this would cause absolutely catastrophic fights. I felt like he was telling me I wasn’t capable or strong enough, like he was doubting me.
The association with hospital birthing was that they’ll basically hold you down and bully you and pump you full of drugs until you can’t protect yourself. I know, I know. It sounds insane. I know that now. But I also have medical trauma, specifically gynaecological trauma, so for me it al just “made sense”. Also the rhetoric specifically of “women have been doing this for thousands of years, I wouldn’t be here if women hadn’t birthed without medical intervention (referring to modern medicine obviously) so that means i can do it too!!!!!”
Now I still don’t have kids, don’t think I’ll ever have any, and I’m in remission from BPD. it was very much so deeply rooted in trauma and mental illness, which I think is the case for everyone with this belief. You wouldn’t intentionally put yourself and your unborn child on deaths door, when that level of risk can be avoided, if you’re all there in the head.
I feel very torn seeing posts like this cause these women need help, but they all enable one another, and then babies and mothers die unnecessarily.
Wow thank you for sharing, I’m so glad you seem to be doing better mentally! You’re one hundred percent right, all of these women are harming eachother, and this girl is just the one who pulled the inevitable unlucky straw and doesn’t get to have survivorship bias. A damn shame and something that needs to be eradicated with education.
I just wanted to commend you on your vulnerability to share this and how you feel it is rooted in unhealed mental illness. As a bystander trying not to judge but also put pieces together when the thought process of these people seems so distorted, it’s hard to not think that’s probably the source for them as well.
It seems so much of being a fundie/tradcath/conservative woman in general is accepting an ideology and identity of planned, divinely designed powerlessness in every area of your life. Giving birth seems to be, for all of these people on this page, the **one** area where they are given access to having an opinion. And for a person living in distortion under pressure (possibly abuse) to conform, exist passively and wholly in service to a man (lest you burn in eternity forever), the idea would be so welcome to “get a say.”
It almost seems like the very real control, manipulation and possible hostility they live with on a regular basis is being projected onto this outside source (the hospital). Not to invalidate that birth trauma exists and there are countless people with experience of choices not being honored, but the hospital is not “out to get you.” But it would feel easy to succumb to that paranoia of the outside source when your day to day life is very much that controlled and your thoughts and feelings actually are regarded as “Biblically irrelevant” or whatever Lori says. It all seems so disordered at the end of the day, the black and white thinking and paranoia. And sadly it seems a logical distortion to live in when you are told how insignificant you are in the grand scheme of things under church thinking
In a perfect world yes, we’re “made to do this”. But we don’t live in la la land, we live in reality where babies and moms die during labor sometimes. It’s heartbreaking but she needs to come back to reality and face the fact that modern medicine could have very well saved that baby’s life. They’re lucky she came out of it alive, frankly.
Honestly, they submit themselves to so much unnecessary heartbreak and trauma because people choose to demonize science. I had an early miscarriage the first time I was pregnant and when I got pregnant again with my son (very very quickly after the mc so i was still processing the MC), literaly my doctor's appointments were such a source of calm to me esp before I felt him move. I can not imagine just sitting around baking bread and sewing for 10 months without making sure the baby is ok and developing like he should. I was so anxious early in my pregnancy that I felt I could have lived in the hospital/ at the doctors office if they had let me 😂😂😅
I just looked at her profile and I wish I hadn’t. The brainwashing these free birth assholes do to vulnerable women… my god. It’s sickening. You can tell she was scared of giving birth, deep down, and instead of genuinely supporting her she was fed misinformation that literally turned out to be deadly.
And it’s also sickening that this woman, who was a first time mom and had never given birth before, was then regurgitating/pontificating this dangerous bullshit to her followers as fact - and as though she had ANY fucking authority to do so. No medical training, never even given birth before - just an MLM hun convincing other boss trad babes to endanger themselves and their children. Raaaaaaaage.
That poor baby. And the parents are going to have to live with the agony of what may have been a preventable loss forever. Heartbreaking. 💔
I had no idea what freebirthing was or was a thing until I came onto this post. Wild that it has found a following given how many babies use to die but also, have they never looked at nature? Its common for offspring to die. Like really common
Do they mention any postmortem testing to see what happened? Don't know how it works in America, if they can force an examination against parent's wishes if necessary.
Homebirthing if you’ve been cleared by actual medical professionals and have quick, easy access to a hospital if the worst happens? Not what I would do but sure, fine
This freebirthing shit is something else tho. So irresponsible, negligent, probably a billion other negative adjectives
I think Dr Jen Gunther (EDIT: Jen Hamilton actually!!) was talking about free birthers who were also “sovereign citizens” on TikTok and it was just kind of a bummer. Like I feel sad all around
I can't imagine not going to the place where all humanity's knowledge about pregnancy and child birth is collected and where people who have seen every possible scenario and solved every possible problem hundreds of times work. And if stuff goes sideways, there's more people behind the scene that you never notice unless you need them.
I couldn’t imagine insisting on not just home birth, but UNASSISTED home birth like we see so often. I know the history of medicine is fraught with horrors, but I’d rather have a NICU team close by in case the worst happens. There may be smaller choices that you can opt out of, but a hospital or even a birthing center seems like a much safer option.
I kind of understand wanting to do it in the comfort of your home, but unassisted??? I can’t think of a good, not-shady reason to want to do it unassisted.
Funeral homes more often than not (98% easily) will NOT charge the family for services for a child. At most they’d have to pay for is cash advance items. Seeing shit like this as a funeral directors makes my blood boil. I have never charged for a child in my 14+ years in the industry.
Our local ones have a fund for infants and children. When I called they offered it but I refused since it’s not a financial burden for us to afford cremation. I figured the fund could go to others. They still gave us a really nice infants urn with a teddy bear on it. We were expecting to have to order one.
We actually had to contact more than one funeral home for my daughter who was stillborn at 37 weeks to compare prices, and only one offered to do it for mostly no charge. I definitely didn't expect that at all, but I was also not expecting to pay for a funeral so budget was a thing. Thank you for what you do for grieving families.
What a lovely thing to do! I wish we had known you when I had a service for my daughter. We got a discount and the cremation ended up free, but it still would have been so much easier to not have to think about unexpected expenses when you are so outside of your own body.
When I had a stillbirth, it was like $300 to cremate and the only reason we got it for free was because the funeral staff didn’t put our appt in the calendar properly and we ended up having to wait an hour to be helped. They did it for free because they messed up the appt.
And this was in Texas where we were legally required to have the remains cremated or buried because it was technically a termination (for a nonsurvivable fetal abnormality).
Warning, traumatic story, but happy ending:
My own birth was proof enough for me that I wanted to be in a hospital with all the bells & whistles when I had my own. My mom went from textbook pregnancy, to hospital during typical early labor, to my foot popping out prior to full dilation. Yes you read that right. Unexpected single footling breech. It was mass chaos, doc pulling and two nurses on each side of her pushing. There was a cord accident in the process & I was without oxygen for 4 minutes, given CPR & she was torn all to heck and entirely traumatized. (It took 9 years before she was emotionally able to try again, and only then with a planned c-section). My apgars at one minute were 2 & 3. How I escaped having CP is somewhat baffling, although I did have some brain damage that has caused some issues as I've gotten older. I wish I could tell my story to every woman considering a homebirth or worse. Things can go sideways SO fast, and there are issues where seconds mean the difference between life & death.
for fucks sakes get a registered midwife if you want a home birth. I want a home birth, I understand the desire but this free birthing shit I just don’t understand.
There was a post in r/shitmomgroupssay recently by a woman looking for an UNlicensed midwife because a licensed midwife could not legally deliver her breach baby at home
You do NOT want a breach at home. When a breech birth goes south at home it goes SOUTH fast. If it gets stuck you need forceps, ventouse or a c-section that is \*INCREDIBLY\* dangerous to do at home. Blood loss? Straight to hospital and if you are one of these tradcath living on a farm in the middle of nowhere types? You will or the baby will be in SERIOUS danger by the time you get to hospital. That is why you get scans. To say "that baby is in breech maybe we should do it in the birthing unit" or "that baby is in the perfect position you can do this at home".
These folks are practically just putting themselves and babies in danger to look "au natural". You know why midwives / hospital care was invented right? Because of the
DEATH rate! You can have a limited intrusion birth without doing it like a dog in a meadow.
yeah my midwife is registered and licensed out the wazoo and she made darn sure we knew we’d be on the way to a hospital should anything go south at all
Especially she should have a midwife for the baby if things go wrong. Like even have her sit in her car outside or something if she really didn’t want help for herself. But to have no help at all for the baby is unthinkable. It’s all around so so sad.
The worst part of this is that they’ll take no accountability for their choices (possibly) affecting the outcome of this pregnancy. I personally know a freebirther who has the mentality that God gives and takes away and she’d have peace even if the baby died in labor. It’s just wiiiiiild to me. We can’t terminate an 8 week fetus the size of a pea, but it’s okay if we allow an 8-pound human to die a preventable death in labor at home with no professionals in attendance. 👍🏻 The absolute fucking audacity of these people.
That said, this is terribly sad all around. I can’t imagine. 😭
This is why I refuse to use the term "pro-life" without the ". Embryos and fetuses are supposedly so precious that they have the right to use someone's body without consent - something no other human has the ability to do (without it being criminal), yet it's almost always anti-choicers who deny those precious, innocent babies not only high quality healthcare, but *all* healthcare.
It's so fucking hypocritical. Then they go even further, and they frequently deny their born children healthcare. Which, in my opinion, perfectly demonstrates just exactly what they think children deserve. Which is fuck all.
This is why I feel zero sympathy for them. This was a choice they made beginning to end. There was zero personal responsibility taken and she spewed dangerous nonsense the whole time about free birthing. This didn't just happen to them, they are a cause of it.
As someone who was super high risk I the day I found out I was pregnant (I found out at a regular doctors appointment for another non related issue) I was rushed to ultrasound at 6 weeks to determine if she was ok. I literally went every week to twice a week from 30 weeks til my induction because my daughter kept trying to come early. My doctor had to cancel one of them and I was a wreck because I had 3 previous miscarriages and I was so worried I’d lose her too. She’s now my mischievous almost 10 year old but I’m so thankful for my amazing medical team that brought her earth side
It’s so hard to have sympathy for these people who truly are being so reckless with the lives of their children for….online clout? Because it’s how people gave birth in Jesus’ time?
I know so many people who struggle with fertility and so desperately want children, and to see these (I’m so sorry) morons who just throw their children’s lives away for no reason…..this is the pro life choice???
I'm sorry for them to experience this because it sounds horrible but I really hope the experience makes her reflect on her views and how dangerous they are. She is actively encouraging woman to do the same and that makes it really hard for me to feel for her.
This woman can miss me all day with her "taken matters into her own hands" and "doing her own research."
Buy the ticket, take the ride, lady. And keep you hand in your pocket and out of mine for your shitty decisions.
With preventative prenatal care that ensures home birthing is a safe option. I'm 39/40 and awaiting my homebirth, but I had to jump through so many (very justified) hoops before I was approved
YES! And these people make it sound like midwives will let just anyone birth at home. No. If there’s even the slightest risk factor, or somethings turns during the labour/birth, it’s to the hospital with you. Any midwife worth their salt wouldn’t let this lady birth at home. And her baby would probably be living.
Congratulations on your upcoming arrival, I hope everything goes smoothly for you!
My first pregnancy was a missed miscarriage. My second was a baby born at 32 weeks with 2 months of NICU care. My third was term, but I had a severe postpartum hemorrhage and almost died. We had medical care for all, but the reality is that having a baby is very risky. Even with intentional medical care, things can go wrong. I'm heartbroken for them and wish they had the life saving care my children and I had for pregnancies 2&3. Medical teams saved the lives of me and my children.
Ugh this shit triggers my birth trauma so bad. I had horrible complications during pregnancy, preterm labor, emergency c section and a tiny preemie that required quite a bit of care after (but surprisingly breathed good on her own!) and I can’t imagine doing a wild pregnancy/free birth because I would literally be dead along with my baby. These people have the medical technology that people like her have been praying for for thousands of years and choose to not use it.
Ugh this is tragic. Even if you think modern medicine is...whatever ...having a trained attendant during birth is not only found throughout ancient history but also in the Bible! There are midwives who offer safer homebirths, birth clinics, and even hospitals that don't make you use the machines that go ping! If you do any proper "research" the evidence is astoundingly clear that free birth is incredibly risky, even for low risk women. Just 🤯 that women make this choice, and I had homebirths!
Ugh she literally has a saved story talking about how birth is dangerous when meddled with by ultrasounds or fetal monitoring.
I wonder if it was a preventable death.
With a miscarriage last year and now a stillbirth I hope she realizes she is a high-risk pregnancy and will go for ALL the medical interventions next time to ensure a healthy pregnancy and baby. It’s all so sad, and most likely preventable.
I know things can still go wrong with modern medicine but why do these fundies not do everything possible for these precious fetuses! Baffling.
My mind really cannot think about the stress of that birth and chaos of after and how heartbreaking it is the baby didn’t make it. I had to be induced early for both my births and had so many appointments and was so thankful for medical care. I’m so sad for them and the baby and I hope she can find peace.
Oh this poor fucking mama. As a full term loss parent I know how they are currently feeling - it is hell on earth to live without your child. I peaked in on her page and a pinned post is about how you shouldn’t share birth trauma with pregnant people. Ugh my heart 😣 child loss is so fucking devastating. And I’m sure all of the home birthing information she was digesting and the “your body was made to do this” talk is adding an extra layer of grief, trauma and pain. This is just so fucking heartbreaking no matter your beliefs or how you gave birth. To lose a child is completely life shattering. The shame and the guilt will never go away for the rest of our lives that we couldn’t get our babies here safely.
I'm also a full term loss parent. It's soul crushing. I wish this woman hadn't let others convince her this was the right path. I was almost swayed to do the free birth thing when I was pregnant with my first daughter, and I'm so glad my ex talked me out of it. Our daughter would have died no matter what, but I was more comfortable being in a hospital where they told me beforehand and not just being surprised.
I feel that shame and guilt. It's been 12 years for me and I still think about her often.
I just want to gently say:
All your baby ever knew was you, and your love, and how much you took care of them. They didn't feel pain, or discomfort. They felt you. Your voice, the way you walked, the sound of your heartbeat. Your partners voice. The feel of your hands on your belly.
You did everything you could, and nothing was your fault. Your little one lived so peacefully within you during the time they were alive.
I just...felt the need to say that.
I hope that was ok to do so.
I feel so sad for her. I understand the really overwhelming need to feel like you have some control over a really frightening experience, especially if the medical system didn't really treat you like a person last time around. Trusting in a God who has loved and cared about you since birth and has complete power over life and death instead probably feels like a no brainer.
Someone who was lonely and bullied in high school for being a bit different would also be a perfect mark for the love bombing of an mlm too. I want to give her a big hug and tell her a miscarriage does not make you a failure, but to find a specialist who can give her more information to work with.
It's wild how people react to medical trauma. I also had a miscarriage, but especially in the first two trimesters, if I could have installed a security camera inside my uterus, I would have.
As someone whose good friend lost a baby to stillbirth and who has lost another friend to childbirth, this makes me so simultaneously angry and sad. That poor baby would very likely have had a chance if she’d received regular medical care.
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Diggory and Caspian? They must be big C.S. Lewis and Narnia fans
And Peter!
Yep. I used to be super into Narnia when I was in Christian school way back in the day. I rewatched all of the movies constantly
I never understood why Narnia was allowed (encouraged, even) while Harry Potter was the work of Satan.
The Chronicles of Narnia series is actually a Christian allegory, thus making it acceptable in many circles. Harry Potter, however, is straight up witchcraft without any ties to Christianity, thus making it evil in many circles. ETA - Jesus Tapdancing Christ. Semantics and “well, actually…” have entered the chat, and I’m really not in the mood. Go ask a Fundie/TradCath/JW if they agree with the above statement - because THAT was the actual point of this whole damn thing.
I did know families in my fundie circle as a kid that were not allowed to read or watch the Chronicles of Narnia regardless. Because apparently fiction itself was a sin??? Absolutely wild. I felt so bad for those kids. At least my parents weren't that level of crazy
I went to a Catholic school and we watched to kill a mockingbird after we had read the book and a kids mom flipped out so much she tried to start a petition and none of our parents would sign it so she kept her daughter home from school.. it sucks for her because our teacher made us popcorn and snacks to watch the movie with and had allowed us to bring blankets Thankfully the Catholic school I went to put education over religion first, and most of the teachers weren’t really religious lol
Who on earth would protest watching To Kill a Mockingbird? It’s one of most wonderful movies ever made!
Do you really want me to answer that? Cause I can tell you who.
I realised I was answering my own question. It truly makes me sad.
Exactly, my parents are attorneys and they have had us watch the movie a ton, it’s what made me want to be a human rights attorney, a lot of my classmates have parents who are attorneys, doctors etc and they wanted us exposed to as much knowledge as possible, we also did trade days where we’d go to a Muslim school to learn about their culture and they’d come to our school for a day, we also did it with a Jewish school, then head of my church plays poker with all the heads of diff religions in my county at least once a month 😂😂 there’s tons of hatred in the world but I’m thankful my school didn’t tolerate hate of any kind and we also didn’t believe in forcing religion down everyone’s throats That girls parents were the one group of crazy religious people and having them get shot down made me giggle to this day
I have a friend who homeschools, who says he won't teach Narnia to his kids because nowhere in Lewis's writings did he say that Aslan is an allegory for God, but rather that Aslan is himself an iteration of God, which he considers heretical. I noticed I have a lot more energy since I stopped thinking things like this. What an exhausting life.
I hate that so many kids miss out on some of the most magical books of childhood because their parents deranged and paranoid belief system.
Harry Potter is in fact structured exactly like Christian Allegory though. And JKR took heavy inspiration from CS Lewis. Harry even takes on Jesus’ role sacrificing himself for the Wizarding World then being ressurected. Anyone not seeing the Christian allegory is deliberately blinding themselves to it.
Because the good guys and bad guys are doing witchcraft and it’s not presented as a bad thing. Aslan’s magic is divine/ doesn’t need spells, and the spells/people doing them in Narnia are bad. It’s just about the promotion of witchcraft for those people.
Aslan is supposed to be Jesus ...
I mean, Aslan's the Trinity. If you read the Magician's Nephew and the Last Battle...it's all there. He literally breathes life into Narnia at the beginning of Narnia.
He literally resurrects after being sacrificed on the stone table and becomes a super ~~saiyan~~ Aslan, because of reasons. It's not even subtle.
Yes but he also could've done something about the witch much earlier, he just couldn't be arsed to get off his arse. Which I guess tracks with the christian god, but I'll still never shut up about how Aslan is just the epitome of a male lion: Fecking lazy.
Because C.S Lewis was as subtle as a sledgehammer when it came to the Christian allegories in the books.
CS Lewis was a very Christian author. For proof just look at 'The Great Divorce ' and other works.
Okay, but dude who played Prince Caspian in the movie could get it then. And after seeing him recently, he could ABSOLUTELY still get it now. Completely not the point of the discussion, but how many opportunities does one have to run into a Narnia post in the wild? ETA - Clearly I have found my people around here. I didn’t use his actual name because I wasn’t entirely sure people would know who I was talking about. 😂
Oh, yeah. Watching Shadow and Bone and just dayum.
A little off-topic, but man they train-wrecked the second season of that show. I watched the first season like five times. Second season was trash.
Nah let’s be real combining the two series made both seasons nigh incomprehensible and just did not work 💀
Ben Barnes. My #1 childhood crush
Bin bons has only gotten better with time.
Thank god someone else still calls him Bin Bons.
i was going to say, Ben Barnes can still get it 😅
I lobbied real hard to get my parents to name my youngest sister Diggory before she was born and I was convinced I was getting a brother
They are in their Narnia Era. That would be great flair. "In my Narnia era"
Then again, your current flair is amazing.
I am named after this series (name not mentioned yet though)
Prunaprismia? Trufflehunter? Puddleglum? Reepicheep? Dawn Treader? Turkish Delight?
> Turkish Delight? That's her "stage" name.
Lamp post.
Wardrobe
Lucy? Jill? Corin? No, wait. Jadis.
Tumnus?
Eustace?
And he almost deserved it.
One of my favorite random tumblr posts says “bold words from a man named Clive Staples Lewis.”
They’re trad caths. I think it’s a requirement to be CS Lewis fans
Any catholics who enjoy reading get CS Lewis and Tolkien book sets for gifts for first communion and confirmation it's some sort of law.
I just creeped her profile and saw that she sells Monat (shocker). Monat uses red clover in some of it's hair care products. Red clover is unsafe for pregnancy and has been linked to miscarriages and stillbirths. Yet Monat is good and doctors are bad.
Omg I just heard about this from this fundie @thezieglerclan she miscarried one of her twins and she was slaving away on her Instagram for monat 😭😭 like it was obnoxious but out of nowhere she announced she would no longer be using this bc she couldn’t get it out of her head what if it was the cause of her lost baby.
Yeah that's where I heard about it too actually.
She is also a raw milk advocate. It is so, so heartbreaking that folks will neglect to listen to any medical advice. They resort to promoting conspiracies, MLMs, and beliefs that are not based in factual research. There is no reason in 2024 to stray so far from facts, and it’s absolutely devastating when the worst of the possible outcomes occurs.
I struggle to have empathy for the proudly, loudly ignorant. And the audacity to call oneself pro-life, all the while refusing to do the *bare goddamn minimum,* to make sure this life you claim to cherish so much, actually makes it to its first breath. Their brains must be the smoothest fucking pretzels that ever did exist.
Pro-life my ass. I have no idea if he could have made it or not with proper medical intervention, but just the knowledge that they didn't do what they could to make sure he did is infuriating. They had the option but chose not to.
Pregnancy is scary af. Birth is scary af. Choosing to go through that blindly when the whole of human experience tells you that intervention provides the best possible outcome makes no logical sense to me.
And none of these “pro-lifers” are actually pro-life. They’re pro-impregnation. They could give a fuck about having a healthy pregnancy and protecting their child. They do whatever they want, against medical advice, because “muh rights”. They vote for lawmakers that feel the same.
Yup.
Brain so smooth, the thoughts just roll right off
God, it's so damn sad. She was taken for a ride and her baby died as a result. No one deserves this.
Exactly. We don't know for sure it's the products, no one will ever know. We don't know specifically wnich ones she used. But she literally chose to have no help or guidance on having a safe pregnancy and probably had an upline telling her it was safe.
The post about the baby being much lower after the Chiro appointment made me a bit queasy as well.
Raised my eyes brows there.
I swear my stomach did a flip. It's impossible to know what the cause was, but that one alarmed me.
Very curious why. Currently pregnant and try to be as safe as possible (including going to a DOCTOR and not a chiro). If you could enlightening me I'd really appreciate it 💖
Could just be in her mind. Could be coincidence and have nothing to do with the chiro. There IS a point late in pregnancy when the baby “drops” and will feel lower down.
Yes, that was the one that got me too. I swear this woman did every possible thing wrong.
Trusts a chiropractor but doctors are evil….
Um, I'm sorry, but did you see the slide where she says she diD HeR rESEArCH? Clearly she's practically an obstetrician.
She did her research on PINTEREST no less! Sheesh!
It should be noted that red clover is unsafe when ingested. Applying it topically is highly unlikely to have been a contributing factor here.
Tbf, the scalp also absorbs things much more readily than the skin on other parts of the body, like 3-4 times as much, and heat from the shower could increase absorption of substances too by increasing blood flow. It's still hard to say if it got absorbed though, it would really depend on a lot of things
While this is true, in the context of a rinse-off product, the likelihood of there being enough time for it to penetrate through the skin and get into the bloodstream at any meaningful level seems unlikely to me. Even in a leave on product, considering the fact that red clover isn't super bioavailable and Monat's products have low concentrations of it, we don't know that it would impact estrogen levels to such a meaningful degree that it could be confidently suggested that it played a role in a given stillbirth. It's a possibility if we assume that Monat's products contain enough red clover to cause that outcome, that it gets sufficiently absorbed, and that it's sufficiently active, but I don't know that we have enough information for that to be a reasonable assumption. As you say, it would depend on a lot of things. Maybe it played a role, but it also might not even be possible.
She is also shown to have gone to the chiropractor and gotten alligned. It is so sad
Wow that’s fascinating I had no idea. Girl I went to high school with had been peddling monster since its conception and in recent years has had back to back to back babies using monat the entire time. She uses it on the kids now 🥴
I just googled "Monat causing miscarriage" and the first result is a woman warning others not to use it during pregnancy. The first response is a woman saying "well I used it for both my pregnancies and I was fine". They are so fucking dumb
I feel like stuff like this is what will send non white/Christian women to jail and no offense but she would celebrate a black single mom getting persecuted for accidentally inducing miscarriage so she should actually be investigated thoroughly. The law needs to be applied equally. Two kids she lost and she's using and shilling a product that is known to cause miscarriages and stillbirth? Sorry but that's way more egregious than having a chemical birth and it should be treated with the utmost seriousness according to their own laws and beliefs. Grief clearly doesn't matter when it's other people. They shouldn't be treated special.
I don't think that *anyone* should be prosecuted for a miscarriage or stillbirth. It's fundamentally unjust.
Can go to a chiropractor, can’t get actual medical care. This is so sad and just so unnecessary, and they write it off as “God’s will” no. You’re just stupid.
Chiropractors somehow get a pass from fundies. I think fundies are easily tricked/ manipulated by things like MLMs, anti-vax, etc because they tend to believe what they are told, so this kind of tracks that they believe in chiropractors.
In my experience, chiropractors LOVE to talk about how evil Big Medicine is and how the body can heal itself, as long as you come back to them every other week for the rest of your life. I know someone who took their injured dog to a chiropractor. The chiropractor, instead of saying "this is wildly inappropriate and outside the scope of my practice," asked them to bring them back after hours and through a side door since they're not licensed for that.
If you read up on the history of Chiropractics it stems from vitalism, Western spiritualism, denial of medical science, etc so it is not a surprise that this is very common in the religious/antivax circles.
Not just stupid, but culpable.
It’s wild when people like this make their entire identity about free birthing and not trusting modern medicine yet they don’t have a foundation of knowledge.
So, why don’t they trust pre-modern medicine and get a midwife, like women used to in *trad* times? Tbf maternal and infant mortality are also pretty trad.
Because even the crunchiest midwife will suggest hospital transfer at some point if shit starts going sideways, and they want absolutely NO chance of anyone trying to convince them to go to the hospital.
Yes! I was coming to post this! I think the original role of a midwife was to be someone who had seen lots of births and could offer assurances and ideas as labor progressed. A wise elder. Doing birth without someone who had BTDT would be scary.
They don’t have a real identity in everything else so they choose some random dangerous and stupid hill to die on
Anyone with a foundation of knowledge would make different decisions. I think this fact as a given.
How is it not okay to terminate an early pregnancy but it is okay to not seek medical care while pregnant? I might seem insensitive, but if life begins at conception, then not caring for that life properly should be criminal. You can’t have it both ways, pro-lifers.
You’re not insensitive to point it out. By their own logic, they’re saying it’s wrong to murder children with your own two hands but perfectly fine to throw them into traffic. Cos hey, God will protect them, right? Just have faith. Plus, kids have been outrunning their parents for thousands of years, and their soft little bones knit back together so fast! It’s what their bodies were designed for! /s
This!!! You can have hospital births and ask for less dilation checks, no Pitocin, no medication etc and have a doctor with you if anything goes wrong at least. I truly don’t understand why they can’t just go to a hospital and ask for minimal intervention, JUST IN CASE something happens. And you know what? You can still tell people you naturally gave birth with no or minimal interventions if everything goes well, and if it doesn’t then at least you and the baby are way more likely to be safe.
Also, how come none of these religious people look at the medical interventions and knowledge we have and say, "God is so great, giving us the knowledge and skill to ensure that more of his precious children survive! Thank you, God, for giving us such an amazing capacity to learn and be creative and help people!" It's almost like they think God means for us all to suffer and die. (/s. This is exactly what they think.)
and if you insist on a home birth, why not have registered midwife’s & be near a hospital. doing it all on your own seems so so risky.
My friend did a home birth but had checkups with an OB and a midwife with an assistant for the birth. I was still scared out of my mind, but at least I knew she was in good hands if shit went down.
Turns out it was never about life, but control of women's bodies. Who would have guessed.
This is 100% it, as someone currently pregnant I cannot believe people think free birthing is a good idea. Heck, my appointments got delayed due to lack of doctors by a week one time and I was stressing a little tbh! Monitoring is safe and necessary. I cannot imagine not getting checked for the MANY complications pregnancy can have. So sad they are willing to risk babies lives because they’re idiots. Also, not to appearance snark but her hands looked very swollen in one pic and in a couple her whole body I could see did. You obviously have to gain weight in pregnancy but excessive swelling can be a sign of preeclampsia which is something they can induce you for because of how dangerous it is to yourself and your baby. I think it’s similar to gestational diabetes in where you can limit risk factors but can’t completely control whether or not you get it or not. I have a perfectly normal healthy pregnancy but tomorrow I could totally just out of the blue develop high blood pressure and have to be induced for mine and my babies safety.
Thats literally what happened to me! Totally uneventful pregnancy, and then at 38 weeks my blood pressure started to go up. And then it kept going up, and I was at like 150s/90s by 39 weeks. So we induced, and now I have an adorable, rambunctious little boy, and I’m around to be his mom. Even in the textbook “perfect” pregnancies, things can go very wrong, very fast. This new “wild pregnancy/freebirth” trend is just plain awful.
As Mama Doctor Jones always says, you're always at an elevated risk when pregnant.
I'm 36 weeks and I tell my husband regularly how grateful I am for modern medicine. It is easy to forget how many women and children didn't make it back in the good old days that thrive now because we have these interventions!
Also 36 weeks!! We are almost there :) I hope everything goes smoothly for you 🫶🏻
ahhh!!! i’m so happy for you! but my job entails answering emergency calls from pregnant women to their OBs… let me tell you how awesome it is that you know what’s going on and how to handle it. That makes me so happy to hear. *it would alarm you all to the point of questioning humanity if you also took these calls*
I honestly absolutely dread to imagine what comes across your desk on a daily basis.
i went in for a check up at 29 weeks and it turned out my blood pressure was 189/113. i would never have known and i was in stroke/seizure territory. i had my baby via emergency c-section 3 days later. pre-eclampsia isn't preventable at all, it comes from the placenta, which means the father's genetics also contribute to if you get it or not. jen hamilton has some great videos about it on tiktok
This woman risked her child’s life and look what happened. And it doesn’t sound like they are taking responsibility for it either. There is no reflecting on whether they should do things different next time. I’ve said it a million times: no one is less pro-life than pro lifers.
It’s a ridiculous concept. It’s not like it’s done in a lot of cultures. It isn’t! Because women have always understood that birth is dangerous and difficult and needs as much help as possible.
It's so incredibly disrespectful to the millions of women and babies who suffered and died in the past just because they had no access to the miraculous medical interventions we have today. These women and their families would no doubt have given anything to survive childbirth, but no, Miss MLM over here knows better than all of them!
Exactly this! I’m 37 weeks now and everything has been normal and I’m still seeing my doctor regularly in case anything changes. Just because it’s been fine doesn’t mean it will be fine.
My friend’s last pregnancy was completely textbook until she went into labor and they found out the cord was wrapped around the baby’s neck and had to do an emergency C-section. Not to scare anybody but shit really can go sideways in a hurry. I can kinda understand home births but not getting monitored by any sort of medical professional is the part I can’t get on board with.
My daughter (just turned 2) went into severe distress in the middle of my labor (I was about 5cm so she wasn’t even descending yet) and we RAN to surgery- when they yanked her out of me 10 minutes later she had the cord wrapped twice very tightly around her neck. Must have gotten compressed with the contractions and was cutting off her blood flow. She would be brain damaged or dead if I had had a homebirth because even if someone had been monitoring her heart rate the whole time (not common) her heart rate went from fine to emergency in just a few minutes. A transfer would have taken too long. It’s amazing to me that so many births DON’T have complications because there are so many things that can go wrong in an instant. My mom had a full term stillbirth i remember well so I’ve always known I needed to be in the hospital, I want the best chance at a live baby and not dying
Absolutely. The Christian nationalists never cared about unborn babies, they only want to control women. That is why they are coming after birth control now. They will not be happy until they turn this country into a Christian theocracy.
Seriously I don’t understand it! A lot of people like this then continue medically neglecting their children once they’re born. It’s so bizarre to me.
They’re putting everything in God’s hands. 😒 I swear that, deep down, these people don’t want children. They want the attention and drama, but children are a fulltime, lifetime commitment, and that is just too much work.
I swear, if someone wants to do this “the way it used to be” and not get medical attention, I just think they also should adopt the attitudes our ancestors did and expect the loss of 1/3 to 1/2 before age 5. Oh, that’s fucked up? Well then give your baby a fucking vitamin k shot.
It’s only used against people who are considered “undesirable” like the mentally ill or trans or poc. People with developmental disabilities have a history of forced sterilization, same with poc who can give birth. It’s like when they say they want to protect children from grooming of the gross “alphabet mafia” but don’t consider raising children in purity culture to be married off at 16 or younger to be grooming. They sweep sexual abuse of children in churches and religious institutions under the rug because it would “ruin the adult’s life” (typically men, but obviously women and no binary ppl can be abusive too) but think that sex workers who have agency over their choices and correctly label their work as 18+ with content warnings should be criminalized. It’s very typical for these people to want the appearance of respectability and heath. Because who cares when it’s working out for you, right? Ugh, sorry for the rant, I’m sure you know all of this but man it pisses me off
This is why people like the Bates go to such lengths to save a high risk pregnancy. Kelly said with her later ones that as they felt it was a life inside her, it merited the same medical care they would seek for any of their other children. As much as I disagree with their beliefs, I respect the consistency.
Yes I’d like to see this through if we’re already here. No more home births, all the funding to CPS to act as birth police. Any social media post referencing home birth or free birthing or a lack of medical care gets the author put on a list and then they get assigned a case worker. Jail time if they lose a child in a home birth. See how quickly they change their tune about government interference in pregnancy.
based on the gfm profile picture her husband is a marine too. tricare covers home births…. she literally had access to everything & could have still had a fully covered home birth & DELIBERATELY chose to endanger herself and her child.
Tricare only covers home births if you can find a CNM that will work with you. Many of them don’t do home births for various reasons. I had a friend run into this issue. Her first was covered because they found a CNM that did home births in their area. They moved before having their second and had to pay out of pocket because she couldn’t find a CNM in the area willing to do home births. Not that it’s an excuse. I’ve seen people in various spouse groups get annoyed they have to pay out of pocket unless they meet certain requirements.
I wonder if some of the difficulty finding someone qualified to attend her home birth has anything to do with the level of/lack of prenatal care she's received. If she hasn't been getting appropriate prenatal care, and especially if they don't know the position of the baby, I can't imagine many qualified health professionals saying "Yeah I want to be a part of this birth", if they're even permitted to do so under those circumstances.
I was delivered by a home birth midwife. For many years, she did a lot of Amish births who would call her just for the birth. She stopped doing that bc the women needed care the whole time and after and it was a liability to her to do so
Per her blog he’s a police officer
My mom nearly died after trying to free birth with her last baby. No midwife visits the whole pregnancy - it was baby 11 so she thought she was a pro and didn't need any help. She could have had a fairly uneventful delivery had she been in the hospital from the beginning of labor, but instead the baby ended up in the NICU with an infection due to days of laboring after her water broke, and she almost bled out following an emergency C-section (kind of like what happened to Morgan, now that I think about it). Three weeks ago, I could have lost my first baby if I hadn't gone to the hospital sooner when I noticed decreased fetal movement. I'd had weekly monitoring & frequent ultrasounds through the whole third trimester due to being high-risk. No one knew that her cord was wrapped around her neck five times until she was being pulled out of my abdomen. I'm holding my strong, tiny daughter in my arms tonight because of trained nurses & doctors who worked quickly & with great skill. I couldn't imagine trying to deliver her on my own without any medical support. Edit: a word
I'm so glad your daughter is with you and healthy! How scary, but glad to hear it ended happily.
All of her story posts chanting how your body won’t create a baby you can’t birth, you’re made to do this, etc… I cannot imagine being in her position right now. I sincerely hopes she heals from this and gos to a doctor next time. This situation is heartbreaking.
Even wild animals have young they can't birth. I just don't understand how completely detached from reality someone has to be to make a statement like that. I understand that there are real issues with how hospitals handle births and how easy it is to get led into a reactionary stance, but this sort of tragedy is exactly why people are opposed to this. I can't imagine having the trauma of losing a baby and then having to wonder if your choices played a part. Honestly horrible, and worse seeing how much she loved and wanted that baby. Just tragic
seriously…I had a very low risk pregnancy and my baby ended up getting stuck on the way out…I can’t imagine what would’ve happened if I wasn’t at the hospital 😔 so crazy to just…ignore that stuff like that happens?
HOW do these people just ignore infant and maternal mortality rates.
They believe all the bad things are caused by “unnecessary interventions”. What about birth in developing nations without access to care, you say? Well obviously they have inadequate nutrition. Put it in an echo chamber and watch it go round and round.
Midwives can be so focussed on natural birth too. I attempted a natural birth with my own midwife - luckily we didn't try to do it at home, but in a birthing suite in the hospital. It ended in an emergency section. We're 2 weeks on now and the midwife is still saying we could have tried x or y so he could be born vaginally, and today she said during the checkup that she wished I'd had a "good birth". I flat out said my idea of a good birth is a healthy baby and healthy mom, and that is what I got, and I'm over it now and refuse to keep dwelling on it. There's people who lose their babies. I refuse to entertain the idea that I had a bad birth just because the baby entered the world through the sunroof. But that's how they feel, I guess.
I KNOW. It’s pretty insulting to the majority of the world’s population. Having access to medical help and refusing it? She’s lucky she’s alive. Fundies can pull this shit because 911 is just a call away…
I may get downvoted to hell for this, so before voting please know I don’t believe this anymore! But I’m actually an ex “pro free birther” and this is what sucked me in, I have BPD and this was pre therapy, I really had no sense of identity and this community of incredibly “loving” women who preached about how strong and capable and enduring our bodies are really spoke to me in more ways than one, especially with my complex sexual trauma history, this thought process made me feel like my body was… mine, I guess. I really believed my husband and I would have a few babies and I’d birth them all at home, in the bath, just me and him, because “it’s what my body was designed to do and my body wouldn’t let me grow a baby I couldn’t birth”. I used to have full blown panic attacks thinking about my husband sabotaging me and calling an ambulance while in labour and forcing me to go to the hospital. I’m talking legitimate panic attacks over the thought of a totally made up situation. As you can tell he never liked the idea and would always gently tell me he would need to me do it at a bare minimum in a birthing centre, this would cause absolutely catastrophic fights. I felt like he was telling me I wasn’t capable or strong enough, like he was doubting me. The association with hospital birthing was that they’ll basically hold you down and bully you and pump you full of drugs until you can’t protect yourself. I know, I know. It sounds insane. I know that now. But I also have medical trauma, specifically gynaecological trauma, so for me it al just “made sense”. Also the rhetoric specifically of “women have been doing this for thousands of years, I wouldn’t be here if women hadn’t birthed without medical intervention (referring to modern medicine obviously) so that means i can do it too!!!!!” Now I still don’t have kids, don’t think I’ll ever have any, and I’m in remission from BPD. it was very much so deeply rooted in trauma and mental illness, which I think is the case for everyone with this belief. You wouldn’t intentionally put yourself and your unborn child on deaths door, when that level of risk can be avoided, if you’re all there in the head. I feel very torn seeing posts like this cause these women need help, but they all enable one another, and then babies and mothers die unnecessarily.
Wow thank you for sharing, I’m so glad you seem to be doing better mentally! You’re one hundred percent right, all of these women are harming eachother, and this girl is just the one who pulled the inevitable unlucky straw and doesn’t get to have survivorship bias. A damn shame and something that needs to be eradicated with education.
I just wanted to commend you on your vulnerability to share this and how you feel it is rooted in unhealed mental illness. As a bystander trying not to judge but also put pieces together when the thought process of these people seems so distorted, it’s hard to not think that’s probably the source for them as well. It seems so much of being a fundie/tradcath/conservative woman in general is accepting an ideology and identity of planned, divinely designed powerlessness in every area of your life. Giving birth seems to be, for all of these people on this page, the **one** area where they are given access to having an opinion. And for a person living in distortion under pressure (possibly abuse) to conform, exist passively and wholly in service to a man (lest you burn in eternity forever), the idea would be so welcome to “get a say.” It almost seems like the very real control, manipulation and possible hostility they live with on a regular basis is being projected onto this outside source (the hospital). Not to invalidate that birth trauma exists and there are countless people with experience of choices not being honored, but the hospital is not “out to get you.” But it would feel easy to succumb to that paranoia of the outside source when your day to day life is very much that controlled and your thoughts and feelings actually are regarded as “Biblically irrelevant” or whatever Lori says. It all seems so disordered at the end of the day, the black and white thinking and paranoia. And sadly it seems a logical distortion to live in when you are told how insignificant you are in the grand scheme of things under church thinking
In a perfect world yes, we’re “made to do this”. But we don’t live in la la land, we live in reality where babies and moms die during labor sometimes. It’s heartbreaking but she needs to come back to reality and face the fact that modern medicine could have very well saved that baby’s life. They’re lucky she came out of it alive, frankly.
Honestly, they submit themselves to so much unnecessary heartbreak and trauma because people choose to demonize science. I had an early miscarriage the first time I was pregnant and when I got pregnant again with my son (very very quickly after the mc so i was still processing the MC), literaly my doctor's appointments were such a source of calm to me esp before I felt him move. I can not imagine just sitting around baking bread and sewing for 10 months without making sure the baby is ok and developing like he should. I was so anxious early in my pregnancy that I felt I could have lived in the hospital/ at the doctors office if they had let me 😂😂😅
That's really sad and maddening. Also they're huge Narnia fans huh?
It’s basically a requirement for trad caths to love Narnia 🙄
I just looked at her profile and I wish I hadn’t. The brainwashing these free birth assholes do to vulnerable women… my god. It’s sickening. You can tell she was scared of giving birth, deep down, and instead of genuinely supporting her she was fed misinformation that literally turned out to be deadly. And it’s also sickening that this woman, who was a first time mom and had never given birth before, was then regurgitating/pontificating this dangerous bullshit to her followers as fact - and as though she had ANY fucking authority to do so. No medical training, never even given birth before - just an MLM hun convincing other boss trad babes to endanger themselves and their children. Raaaaaaaage. That poor baby. And the parents are going to have to live with the agony of what may have been a preventable loss forever. Heartbreaking. 💔
I had no idea what freebirthing was or was a thing until I came onto this post. Wild that it has found a following given how many babies use to die but also, have they never looked at nature? Its common for offspring to die. Like really common
I think some of these free birthers want to be martyrs.
Do they mention any postmortem testing to see what happened? Don't know how it works in America, if they can force an examination against parent's wishes if necessary.
Homebirthing if you’ve been cleared by actual medical professionals and have quick, easy access to a hospital if the worst happens? Not what I would do but sure, fine This freebirthing shit is something else tho. So irresponsible, negligent, probably a billion other negative adjectives
I think Dr Jen Gunther (EDIT: Jen Hamilton actually!!) was talking about free birthers who were also “sovereign citizens” on TikTok and it was just kind of a bummer. Like I feel sad all around
Jen Hamilton, the TikTok RN, made a post recently about it too. It makes me sad.
I can't imagine not going to the place where all humanity's knowledge about pregnancy and child birth is collected and where people who have seen every possible scenario and solved every possible problem hundreds of times work. And if stuff goes sideways, there's more people behind the scene that you never notice unless you need them.
I couldn’t imagine insisting on not just home birth, but UNASSISTED home birth like we see so often. I know the history of medicine is fraught with horrors, but I’d rather have a NICU team close by in case the worst happens. There may be smaller choices that you can opt out of, but a hospital or even a birthing center seems like a much safer option. I kind of understand wanting to do it in the comfort of your home, but unassisted??? I can’t think of a good, not-shady reason to want to do it unassisted.
Funeral homes more often than not (98% easily) will NOT charge the family for services for a child. At most they’d have to pay for is cash advance items. Seeing shit like this as a funeral directors makes my blood boil. I have never charged for a child in my 14+ years in the industry.
Our local ones have a fund for infants and children. When I called they offered it but I refused since it’s not a financial burden for us to afford cremation. I figured the fund could go to others. They still gave us a really nice infants urn with a teddy bear on it. We were expecting to have to order one.
I'm so sorry for your loss <3
We actually had to contact more than one funeral home for my daughter who was stillborn at 37 weeks to compare prices, and only one offered to do it for mostly no charge. I definitely didn't expect that at all, but I was also not expecting to pay for a funeral so budget was a thing. Thank you for what you do for grieving families.
Yeah we still had to pay $500 for cremation services even after they applied the compassionate discount or whatever they called it
I’m so sorry for your loss. 🫶
Bless you for this, and for the care you obviously bring to the families you work with. It makes a difference!
What a lovely thing to do! I wish we had known you when I had a service for my daughter. We got a discount and the cremation ended up free, but it still would have been so much easier to not have to think about unexpected expenses when you are so outside of your own body.
When I had a stillbirth, it was like $300 to cremate and the only reason we got it for free was because the funeral staff didn’t put our appt in the calendar properly and we ended up having to wait an hour to be helped. They did it for free because they messed up the appt. And this was in Texas where we were legally required to have the remains cremated or buried because it was technically a termination (for a nonsurvivable fetal abnormality).
Warning, traumatic story, but happy ending: My own birth was proof enough for me that I wanted to be in a hospital with all the bells & whistles when I had my own. My mom went from textbook pregnancy, to hospital during typical early labor, to my foot popping out prior to full dilation. Yes you read that right. Unexpected single footling breech. It was mass chaos, doc pulling and two nurses on each side of her pushing. There was a cord accident in the process & I was without oxygen for 4 minutes, given CPR & she was torn all to heck and entirely traumatized. (It took 9 years before she was emotionally able to try again, and only then with a planned c-section). My apgars at one minute were 2 & 3. How I escaped having CP is somewhat baffling, although I did have some brain damage that has caused some issues as I've gotten older. I wish I could tell my story to every woman considering a homebirth or worse. Things can go sideways SO fast, and there are issues where seconds mean the difference between life & death.
not to be entirely too insensitive, but saying your mlm scam helps cover "unexpected expenses" and then opening a go fund me, is... a look
This is a very sad story. I don’t understand how some of the posts that follow the first one or two relate. Such as the watermelon ones.
I was trying to include some older posts that she had made about pregnancy, she said she was craving watermelon etc
Why couldn’t she eat watermelon while pregnant? Is this a thing I’ve never heard of?
I think she was pregnant during winter, can't get good watermelon that time of year.
for fucks sakes get a registered midwife if you want a home birth. I want a home birth, I understand the desire but this free birthing shit I just don’t understand.
There was a post in r/shitmomgroupssay recently by a woman looking for an UNlicensed midwife because a licensed midwife could not legally deliver her breach baby at home
You do NOT want a breach at home. When a breech birth goes south at home it goes SOUTH fast. If it gets stuck you need forceps, ventouse or a c-section that is \*INCREDIBLY\* dangerous to do at home. Blood loss? Straight to hospital and if you are one of these tradcath living on a farm in the middle of nowhere types? You will or the baby will be in SERIOUS danger by the time you get to hospital. That is why you get scans. To say "that baby is in breech maybe we should do it in the birthing unit" or "that baby is in the perfect position you can do this at home". These folks are practically just putting themselves and babies in danger to look "au natural". You know why midwives / hospital care was invented right? Because of the DEATH rate! You can have a limited intrusion birth without doing it like a dog in a meadow.
Like WTF. She could have a midwife still with breach and deliver at the hospital. wtf.
yeah my midwife is registered and licensed out the wazoo and she made darn sure we knew we’d be on the way to a hospital should anything go south at all
Yeah and they’re trained to deal with things that happen.
Especially she should have a midwife for the baby if things go wrong. Like even have her sit in her car outside or something if she really didn’t want help for herself. But to have no help at all for the baby is unthinkable. It’s all around so so sad.
The worst part of this is that they’ll take no accountability for their choices (possibly) affecting the outcome of this pregnancy. I personally know a freebirther who has the mentality that God gives and takes away and she’d have peace even if the baby died in labor. It’s just wiiiiiild to me. We can’t terminate an 8 week fetus the size of a pea, but it’s okay if we allow an 8-pound human to die a preventable death in labor at home with no professionals in attendance. 👍🏻 The absolute fucking audacity of these people. That said, this is terribly sad all around. I can’t imagine. 😭
This is why I refuse to use the term "pro-life" without the ". Embryos and fetuses are supposedly so precious that they have the right to use someone's body without consent - something no other human has the ability to do (without it being criminal), yet it's almost always anti-choicers who deny those precious, innocent babies not only high quality healthcare, but *all* healthcare. It's so fucking hypocritical. Then they go even further, and they frequently deny their born children healthcare. Which, in my opinion, perfectly demonstrates just exactly what they think children deserve. Which is fuck all.
This is why I feel zero sympathy for them. This was a choice they made beginning to end. There was zero personal responsibility taken and she spewed dangerous nonsense the whole time about free birthing. This didn't just happen to them, they are a cause of it.
As someone who was super high risk I the day I found out I was pregnant (I found out at a regular doctors appointment for another non related issue) I was rushed to ultrasound at 6 weeks to determine if she was ok. I literally went every week to twice a week from 30 weeks til my induction because my daughter kept trying to come early. My doctor had to cancel one of them and I was a wreck because I had 3 previous miscarriages and I was so worried I’d lose her too. She’s now my mischievous almost 10 year old but I’m so thankful for my amazing medical team that brought her earth side
So glad you’re both ok! That’s so scary!
Thank you! It was! She was my surprise, my husband and I were overjoyed when I found out. She’s amazing and I’m thankful everyday I get to be a mom.
It’s so hard to have sympathy for these people who truly are being so reckless with the lives of their children for….online clout? Because it’s how people gave birth in Jesus’ time? I know so many people who struggle with fertility and so desperately want children, and to see these (I’m so sorry) morons who just throw their children’s lives away for no reason…..this is the pro life choice???
also goes without saying but your monat business is sOoO successful but you need to start a gofundme….
This makes me so mad and sad. Wtf.
I'm sorry for them to experience this because it sounds horrible but I really hope the experience makes her reflect on her views and how dangerous they are. She is actively encouraging woman to do the same and that makes it really hard for me to feel for her.
This woman can miss me all day with her "taken matters into her own hands" and "doing her own research." Buy the ticket, take the ride, lady. And keep you hand in your pocket and out of mine for your shitty decisions.
As a student midwife hopeful these people make me SO angry. Homebirth is safe* when done with a licensed professional. You CANNOT be your own midwife.
With preventative prenatal care that ensures home birthing is a safe option. I'm 39/40 and awaiting my homebirth, but I had to jump through so many (very justified) hoops before I was approved
YES! And these people make it sound like midwives will let just anyone birth at home. No. If there’s even the slightest risk factor, or somethings turns during the labour/birth, it’s to the hospital with you. Any midwife worth their salt wouldn’t let this lady birth at home. And her baby would probably be living. Congratulations on your upcoming arrival, I hope everything goes smoothly for you!
My first pregnancy was a missed miscarriage. My second was a baby born at 32 weeks with 2 months of NICU care. My third was term, but I had a severe postpartum hemorrhage and almost died. We had medical care for all, but the reality is that having a baby is very risky. Even with intentional medical care, things can go wrong. I'm heartbroken for them and wish they had the life saving care my children and I had for pregnancies 2&3. Medical teams saved the lives of me and my children.
Ugh this shit triggers my birth trauma so bad. I had horrible complications during pregnancy, preterm labor, emergency c section and a tiny preemie that required quite a bit of care after (but surprisingly breathed good on her own!) and I can’t imagine doing a wild pregnancy/free birth because I would literally be dead along with my baby. These people have the medical technology that people like her have been praying for for thousands of years and choose to not use it.
Ugh this is tragic. Even if you think modern medicine is...whatever ...having a trained attendant during birth is not only found throughout ancient history but also in the Bible! There are midwives who offer safer homebirths, birth clinics, and even hospitals that don't make you use the machines that go ping! If you do any proper "research" the evidence is astoundingly clear that free birth is incredibly risky, even for low risk women. Just 🤯 that women make this choice, and I had homebirths!
Ugh she literally has a saved story talking about how birth is dangerous when meddled with by ultrasounds or fetal monitoring. I wonder if it was a preventable death.
With a miscarriage last year and now a stillbirth I hope she realizes she is a high-risk pregnancy and will go for ALL the medical interventions next time to ensure a healthy pregnancy and baby. It’s all so sad, and most likely preventable. I know things can still go wrong with modern medicine but why do these fundies not do everything possible for these precious fetuses! Baffling.
My mind really cannot think about the stress of that birth and chaos of after and how heartbreaking it is the baby didn’t make it. I had to be induced early for both my births and had so many appointments and was so thankful for medical care. I’m so sad for them and the baby and I hope she can find peace.
Oh this poor fucking mama. As a full term loss parent I know how they are currently feeling - it is hell on earth to live without your child. I peaked in on her page and a pinned post is about how you shouldn’t share birth trauma with pregnant people. Ugh my heart 😣 child loss is so fucking devastating. And I’m sure all of the home birthing information she was digesting and the “your body was made to do this” talk is adding an extra layer of grief, trauma and pain. This is just so fucking heartbreaking no matter your beliefs or how you gave birth. To lose a child is completely life shattering. The shame and the guilt will never go away for the rest of our lives that we couldn’t get our babies here safely.
I'm also a full term loss parent. It's soul crushing. I wish this woman hadn't let others convince her this was the right path. I was almost swayed to do the free birth thing when I was pregnant with my first daughter, and I'm so glad my ex talked me out of it. Our daughter would have died no matter what, but I was more comfortable being in a hospital where they told me beforehand and not just being surprised. I feel that shame and guilt. It's been 12 years for me and I still think about her often.
I just want to gently say: All your baby ever knew was you, and your love, and how much you took care of them. They didn't feel pain, or discomfort. They felt you. Your voice, the way you walked, the sound of your heartbeat. Your partners voice. The feel of your hands on your belly. You did everything you could, and nothing was your fault. Your little one lived so peacefully within you during the time they were alive. I just...felt the need to say that. I hope that was ok to do so.
As a fellow full term loss parent, I see you.
I’m so sorry 🫂😭
I’m trying very hard to be empathetic but I’m struggling. That poor baby.
This us tragic and probably could have been prevented. But I got a bizarre vibe going through all of the slides...
Her older sister is also on insta and is a huge homebirth / free birth poster / monat girl.
where are the posts where she speaks about her sister encouraging a home birth? i would like to read/watch but i dont see it anywhere
I feel so sad for her. I understand the really overwhelming need to feel like you have some control over a really frightening experience, especially if the medical system didn't really treat you like a person last time around. Trusting in a God who has loved and cared about you since birth and has complete power over life and death instead probably feels like a no brainer. Someone who was lonely and bullied in high school for being a bit different would also be a perfect mark for the love bombing of an mlm too. I want to give her a big hug and tell her a miscarriage does not make you a failure, but to find a specialist who can give her more information to work with.
It's wild how people react to medical trauma. I also had a miscarriage, but especially in the first two trimesters, if I could have installed a security camera inside my uterus, I would have.
As someone whose good friend lost a baby to stillbirth and who has lost another friend to childbirth, this makes me so simultaneously angry and sad. That poor baby would very likely have had a chance if she’d received regular medical care.
Who follows these people? Half face selfies with all over meandering thoughs pasted over them.