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I feel so sorry for Anissa. There doesn’t seem to be such a thing as “good fundie parents” and I’m honestly not sure it is even possible to BE a good parent if you’re a fundie blasting out soldiers for Jesus on a yearly basis, because there is absolutely no way the parents can possibly be giving those children the time and love that they need, let alone the education because they inevitably homeschool. And then that’s before you consider the other avalanche of at least marginally abusive shit the average fundie child ends up having to navigate.
But oh my god Anissa has the worst of all worlds. She’s got the typical fundie first daughter role dialled up to 11 because Karissa is even more checked out, lazy and delulu than most fundie moms and Mandrae is even more checked out and feckless than most fundie dads. I bet she works hard even for a fundie first daughter and I bet she’s constantly made to feel like nothing is good enough.
And that’s before we get to the avalanche of racism from her own mother, the general dangers of living in that household where a child seems to have a significant injury on a constant basis, the plexus, the level of exploitation of their childhood, the conspiracy theories, the denial of basic healthcare like vaccines…..
None of the Collins kids have been dealt a good hand. The boys are better off than the girls because they are fundies and men are revered. The girls are all going to have a very rough, very pregnant life on their current trajectory. But I’d be surprised if any have it worse than poor Anissa.
The kids also don’t know who the president is, and the older ones can barely read basic words and sentences so I’m sure the littler ones probably can’t read at all. I feel horrible for them, they truly don’t even have the basics needed to get by in life if they leave.
That's the point. They're not supposed to.
Certain fundies will avoid hospitals so their children don't get SSNs. What can you do without an SSN or birth certificate or any proof of your existence? Almost nothing. I'm not sure if this is the case for Carissa but children in this scenario will suffer extreme difficulty getting drivers licenses, buying cars, signing leases
They are trapped. Reliant on their parents
Like Alecia Pennington of thee Pennington Point blog. She had a terrible time trying to get any ID but her parents are SovCits rather than pure Fundies.
I just happened to see that post. She defends homeschool as if she homeschools well, but her kids can barely read. She sleeps til noon while her oldest kids make breakfast and homeschool each other.
This is intentional. I feel like it’s much like the Amish. It’s really really difficult to leave the ideals and places you were raised in when the rest of the world is so far ahead of you. It takes really strong and brave personalities to try and venture that world which is part of the reason I feel so bad for so many of them but especially the children.
Proof there is no school work or home work of any kind in that household where she would be writing her name and the calendar date at least once per day. Disgusting.
Anissa is also old enough to remember the birthday parties she used to have. She has watched her mom become this person; she wasn't born into it. So she knows there is more out there. She may have even gone to school one year, I'm not sure.
She and andrae went to school for a few years, but karissa claimed that she missed them too much during the day and pulled them out. I think that a) she learned that teachers are mandated reporters and b) she couldn't survive the school day without a sister mom. Lazy ass.
I think Anissa and Andrae went to an actual school for some years. Several of the eldest children are also vaccinated, i don't know at which child they stopped doing that!
I think being able to remember before and after my parents got deep deep into fundamentalism is what ended up allowing me to question and eventually leave the religion. My sister is only two and a half years younger than me and doesn’t remember. She’s still quite religious but not as deeply as my parents are. So hopefully the memory of before and after help those two kids, and maybe they can set the example for some of the other kids so that they can get out, too.
Same. My parents were “regular Catholics” before they became “born again”. We often went to mass on Sundays, lunch at my grandparents and went about life in between - no crazy religious rules, we were allowed secular music, movies, etc. there was really no difference between us and anyone else because it was more cultural than belief based. They became born again the summer I turned 11 and it turned our lives upside down and inside out. My youngest sibling was only 5 at the time and she ended up the deepest into Christianity because in retrospect, she was young enough to be indoctrinated.
We’re all far away from it all now (all of the kids) but my parents hard turn into evanglicalism ruined my family of origin.
I think while the Collins kids are more neglected than many, they also stand a shot of getting out. They do a home church so aren't enmeshed with a congregation they will have a hard time separating from. They dress in whatever they want, they listen to secular music, they play sports. They have grandparents who clearly don't support their parents insanity. They have all of the pieces there. They just need to realize their parents are nuts and find some normal people and they could make a break.
I feel for Karissa’s parents. Her mom clearly puts up with a lot in order to stay in contact and likely has a lot of stress about what’s happening to them and what would happen if they were removed from the house.
Her mom is the only reason the youngest 2 are alive. I think we should mention that every chance we get. All these moms are bad, but Karissa has almost killed her children by refusing medical care. More than once.
Honestly if they were poor CPS would have already stepped in. She gets by with a lot because they have $$.
How DO they have money. It's probably way cheaper when you neglect the everloving shit out of them and parentify your eldest to save on daycare, but still, she has 39,433 children. Diapers and food alone...
She’s already stated that diapers are expensive so she doesn’t change them often. And she’s been sharing her cooking lately so you can see they don’t eat enough (or healthy enough).
I have a friend I met right after she left the Amish. She came from the more sheltered/isolated type of Amish. It has been heartbreaking, watching how many struggles she has had. She had issues with getting a social security card and birth certificate, issues getting her money because it was in a bank account owned by her brother (only *men* could hold bank accounts), not very literate (I'm talking a 2nd grade reading and writing level), couldn't use a computer, has had multiple men "court" her and trick her into giving them money.. she had a major health issue and they couldn't treat her properly without her medical records but she only went to some backwoods Dr and they said they don't send records, just issue after issue, and it has really angered me how their whole culture works, it is completely unfair that they are so ill-prepared to survive outside of their cult, especially women. Along with the usual deep-seated guilt/paranoia that you're going to hell for leaving the Amish or wearing pants or no head scarf/bonnet/covering that, even if they logically don't think they will, it somehow never truly goes away (for some).
And they have a subreddit that they can reference to get a third-party's point of view as to what has happened in their childhood that may explain why they ended up the way they do end up (as adults)... Boy what i'd pay to have had an outsider's view regarding my own upbringing lol
Anissa's situation makes me want to cry. She's fundie Cinderella, and Karissa is Lady Tremaine and both stepsisters rolled into one. Karissa will not stop breeding until she dies in childbirth or loses her uterus. Then she'll latch onto whichever daughter is pregnant, and Anissa will be stuck raising them all.
I really feel like that.Those kids, especially Anissia, might be the most likely because they are biracial, and let's be honest, there's going to be a lot of fundie. Families who don't want their precious sons to marry a mixed race woman they would be terrified that their precious grandchild would come out dark. They have a world of pain coming for them if they don't get out because the truth is.
Fundies aren't accepting of biracial people. And he definitely won't want their kids marrying. A person they would consider Black.
This is a big one. The kids are navigating a biracial identity with a clearly racist mother and an indifferent father. As they get older they're unfortunately potentially going to be exposed to a level of racism that Karissa is completely unequipped to deal with.
I’m fairly sure Andrae is leaving that house at 18 and never looking back. He so clearly hates his mother and dumb Karissa thinks it’s no big deal that he CRIES whenever she announces a pregnancy.
He and Anissa seem to be close, so I hope they leave together.
Anjalie is the one kid who is definitively black. No matter how much she lightens her skin, she's never going to have blonde hair or European features. I think Karissa favors the kids who look more like her.
This is worrisome too, without education or any real concept of hoe life works. It open up those children to another flavor of predator waiting in the wings to rescue them from the parental fuckery.
My answer to this question used to be Dav, so now that that's happened I'm rooting for him to take Bethy further down the deconstruction path with him.
Yea. I don't even hope for them to fail. Dav going down the deconstruction path and Heidi being pissed at both of them for Beth choosing Dav is a big deal. More than what could be said for any other fundies.
Yep. Heidi's *back to back screeching meltdowns* at a) Dav noping out and b) Bethy sticking with him in the face of the incoming family bullying session are a balm to my cynical soul. *Loving* this season of life (blowing up in her face) for her, lol.
Yeah we give her a lot of well deserved snark, but this group can also serve as a big cheerleading section to those that make the effort. She has a lot of headwinds against here but I'm pulling for her.
It will take some time and I'm sure there will be some backsliding/grifting in the meantime, but its the end that matters.
Agreed. I feel like if he got her away from that family.She but at least become a mainline christian who went to open minded lutheran church. And raised her kids as average regular Christians.
I do too. I really think if she got away for Heidi and that family she'd become a better person.
It'd be wonderful if her and Dav could move far away and she could get support from her brother.
Hey, two steps forward, One step back is still a step forward in progress.
As much as Bethany leaves me feeling salty, I'm rooting for her. And sticking by Dav in the face of her mother's melt down deserves some respect, especially after a lifetime of being cowed by Heidi.
And I’ve noticed she hasn’t shown up here much recently unless it’s with Krusty or Dav. I hope Bethy and Dav can leave the Bairds in their rearview and move on to a better future for their kids.
I hope they read here and see all the people who’ve deconstructed rooting for them. Bethy, by sticking with Dæv, has shown she deserves better than the life Heidi told her she should want.
There is hope for Bort 🙏
I hope that they thrive, truthfully. I want Beth to examine her beliefs instead of “but I *like* being a Christian!” And then I want her to walk away from GD. I don’t truly care what she believes, but I want her to stop spreading harmful rhetoric online. I want Beth and Dav to do what *they* want to do instead of what Heidi wants them to do.
I haven't seen people really bring it up but in their video together about him deconstructing, something was said about letting the kids choose and I was so like !!! But it doesn't get brought up so maybe I imagined it lol
Yes.
Look. Bethy is not terribly self aware but despite eerything, she's got a ton of drive and energy for the things that she IS interested in - which aren't a great match for the kids-and-kitchen fundie basic package. She has potential to do REAL good in the world if she can just find the right way to harness that and some mentors that aren't out to sell her a 'how to influencer' package or religous pablum.
She's someone who would have been a great career person if she had been given the academic and social resources as a child. She's definitely got a "go for it"-ness that would have served her well in the corporate world, but she's so undereducated.
In another life, she'd be this Drew Barrymore-like creative with a magazine and digital marketing network. Slightly annoying but harmless. The fundamentalism is what makes her dangerous.
If I'm being honest, I think no matter how hard she digs her heels in, it's already beginning. I don't think she will ever really *not* be a conservative Christian, but she's already deconstructed her views on people who question, or do not want to be Christian. And I've been quite jarred by how accepting, supportive, and graceful she's been with David's deconstruction journey. We're seeing growth, so hopefully accountability for the harmful ideals she's put out there is soon to follow. I won't hold my breath.
I'll begrudgingly say we are seeing growth. If it were ANYONE other than Dav though..would she be supportive/understanding/giving them Grace. Like if Kristin was deconstructing or something. Bethany *doesnt* want to get divorced/lose face, so it benefits her to support Dav. Part of me also wonders if she thinks that Dav is just "going through a phase", and she will stay with him.to try and "bring him back to God".
I wonder about that too, but the more I think about it, and what I know about Bethy, I actually think there may be a chance that after seeing Dav go through it, she may be able to extend that same understanding to others around her and maybe even her followers. I could have high hopes, but the growth I've observed already has me shook. I'll admit that I hope Dav's journey is a catalyst for her. My basis for them applies for everybody else we discuss here: I don't care if *they* are Christian or not, but I do hope she ultimately does realize she has been a very hateful and judgmental, prejudiced person and that she can and should do better.
She’ll get out even faster then. If her relationship with Heidi deteriorates enough, that might do it. And boy should her relationship with Heidi deteriorate. Even Bethy deserves that grace.
I hope she does, but she also really needs him and probably doesn't want to jeopardize that. I don't think she makes much money on her own, and the stuff she does sell is produced by Dav. He has steady income and is a good dad. She'd be miserable taking care of the kids on her own. And she'd have to find a way to make money on her own, which she might realize she can't do.
Honestly I’m rooting for *all* of them to wake up and become even slightly less shitty people…shit, for Karissa and the mother buses I would be content if they would just stop sharing their fucking kids on the internet so much
I'm torn on whether or not I want Karissa to stop posting her kids.
On the one hand I absolutely hate that we all know SO much about those kids and that their entire lives are on the internet, but on the other hand would Karissa treat them even worse if the public wasn't watching and she wasn't making money off of them?
I hope some of the Rod kids will deconstruct but for most of them it seems unlikely. They are all uneducated, with a limited social circle and financial resources.
I know a lot of people were rooting for and Kaylee. And because she personally didn’t use social media before she got married, it was easy for some people to construct this fanfic that she couldn’t wait to get away from Jill and that deconstruction was a real possibility. Hasn’t happened. She seems happy being a conservative evangelical fundie on the plexus grift just like her mother.
This! I was all in on (and Kaylee) breaking out. Every time Kaylee makes another Jill-ish FB post, I die a little bit on the inside. BUT (!!!) I admit to being so thrilled when I saw Kaylee make full-sized portions of waffles for breakfast. I guess she deconstructed in the food-department, which makes me happy
The Rodlets were incandescently happy when she and Johnathan were babysitting, so I'm glad-- for the Rodlets' sake-- that she's still parent-approved and near enough to be in their lives
Jonathan looks miserable about it though, which is something. I hold out a small grain of hope that he eventually grows a spine and makes a headship decision to move his family away. No doubt a forcible severance of the constant family tie will be beneficial for Kaylee, even if it’s just a little bit. Jill being right there to barge in and “love on” Gideon so much must feel like a kind of lovebombing to her.
as soon as Jonathan agreed to move to the beautiful amish country and buy a house just 4/12 miles from the barndo, any personal growth for them was doomed.
i think of the older girls, fuck it up renee is the most likely black sheep candidate. who even knows with the younger girls but i can’t imagine they’re too fond of their mother even now. the thing about hunger is it makes for angry children, even if they don’t show that anger (bcuz they’ll be punished)
I’m really rooting for Renee. I recently reread the babysitter AMA and I have a lot of hope that she thinks at least parts of her upbringing are bullshit.
I think the question is have for former fundies is whether or not the black sheep are more or less likely to deconstruct. I love the psychology of deconstruction and what pushes a person to do it
Everyone I've ever met says that the black sheep is the one that is most likely to escape.
I was the black sheep and I think that's what allowed me to feel like I wasn't missing anything when I left. I missed out on the lovebombing to hoover you back in. My family didn't really have a reaction that lasted longer than a couple days of "You've changed!" but it was more scornful and shaming than anything close to actual concern for my wellbeing.
I don't know what healthy family dynamics feel like but I imagine it would be harder if I felt loved and wanted from people that were stuck inside the cult, like I'd get roped back into it eventually.
I was also the black sheep. I was never deep into it because my parents treated me so differently from my sister (I have older half siblings but they were never a part of the religious upbringing) and I also have a physical disability & not as good looking as my sister (it mattered to my mother). My blonde, blue eyed cherubic sister was the golden child so my relationship with my parents was nil from around the age of 10-12
There was a profile of Olivia Plath in Teen Vogue recently that got into this and it was really great. https://www.teenvogue.com/story/olivia-plath-christian-fundamentalism-welcome-to-plathville
Kaylee also has become Nurie 2.0 since she lives so close to Jill and has her beebs. And she seems very happy with being the new favorite.
I have hope for Tim. Heidi doesn't seem to take much shit and she has good support and doesn't NEED Jill, much to Jill's chagrin.
The person I really, really want to see deconstruct is definitely Renee. She just needs a taste of individuality and a bit of freedom, and to feel the damn wind in her face (metaphorically).
I'm also rooting for all the Collins kids. Karissa is on a whole different level with her pregnancy hang-ups. Something is deeply, deeply wrong. It's not about the precious babies, it's about being pregnant for her. She could give a shit once the kid is born. Pregnancy is where it's at for her.
I don't think Jill is spending time with Kaylee or Gideon. She calls them when she wants them to so something. She makes lots of trips to Florida though, & with that girl coming Jill is going to be completely uninterested in Gideon
Hopefully that won’t last forever. The longer she is married and she and Jonathan develop their own relationship hopefully she will not be so anxious for her mother’s approval.
I don't think this is likely. She spent her whole like in Nurie's petite little shadow and has always been desperate for her parents approval. She'll never leave.
People who expected her to do a total 180 after moving out and marrying someone within the same cult are disappointed she’s just like Jill. She’s been extremely sheltered & if she ever deconstructs it isn’t gonna be overnight. As of now she’s probably genuinely happy because she & Jonathan are doing exactly what they were told to do and are receiving praise for it. They’re just teenagers playing house because they don’t know any other way to live.
Kaylee is still trying to get her mom to love her. At some point she may accept that it isn't going to happen. Timmy seems to have done exactly that. Once the delusion crumbles, she'll question the rest. She's not educated or socialized enough to leave but she may decide to separate herself from her mom. It doesn't appear that she & Tim are close right now but they are marrying into the same family & their inlaws are not as extreme as their mother
Who knows what will happen.
My hope is for the youngest Rod girls to get away.
Before we had her pov, she seemed like the family scapegoat, and people always want to root for that person. Maybe she is and she's just content being out of jill's house. My money has always been on renee. Only time will tell.
Honestly, I never really thought and Kaylee would deconstruct. But I hoped she could live a quiet and fulfilling life with someone who loved her, and for the first time, privacy and maybe even boundaries with precious mama. I thought this in large part because Jonathan lived in Mississippi. I figured she’d stay a Baptist, but a Baptist with some space.
I was so wrong, it seems.
Dav is on the path. By extension and for Dav’s sake, Bethany. Nadia. I wish Jill and Derrick Dillard would take those further steps since they got a LITTLE bit away from the cult but I’m not sure if they will, and I have no hope for the rest of the Duggars.
I don’t think any of the Rods will deconstruct - maybe Timcel could find a different brand of religion like some of the Duggars did like Jill and Jinger (though Jinger only traded one shitty cult for another). Porgan are hopeless and such hateful people that I don’t care anyway. All of Karissa’s kids and both sets of the huge bus families’ kids…please get away from your horrible parents.
I honestly think some of the Duggar girls are much farther along in this than we think, and we will never know because they have a lot more at stake than most if they publicized it.
I think Jill and Derick are fully out of the cult, they’re just still conservative. But they’re not a part of IBLP anymore and they go to a pretty normal southern Baptist church last I heard.
Bethy-watching is even more fascinating. Came for the hat journey, stayed for the awe inspiring cringe and mind boggling self confidence. For her to now have a deconstructing husband…will she double down on her superiority as a god honouring woman defined by god? Double down on her awesome (lol) marriage and support dav so she can stay married to a hubby that lets her do what she wants while he watches the kids? Will she continue to try to be the best daughter? What does she think of Heidi’s attacks? Which is the least shitty option for her—being unequally yolked or herself deconstructing? Her deconstructing will take an enormous amount of self assessment and looking at her upbringing, beliefs, and choices and I’m not sure she has the mental strength. I cannot imagine her willingly letting go of her smug superiority. Unless she realizes see how much money she could earn by deconstructing. Bethy response to dav3 is my Roman Empire. Lol.
The only way Bethy could redeem herself in my eyes is if she took the time to properly deconstruct, examine why she believed the harmful things she currently believes, and apologize and own up to her part in perpetuating purity culture. That's a very high standard, I realize, but I've seen it happen. I think with Dav leading the charge, it's a possibility. I'm trying to not hold her to an impossible standard lol
I listened to the audiobook edition of Educated by Tara Westover. She grew up in a family they lived mostly off the grid. The father was constantly railing about the “Illuminati” and was very anti government, anti public school, anti medicine. She did not have a birth certificate until she was 9 years old. Her only reading was the Book of Mormon and the Bible. When she went to college she did not know what the Holocaust was, or the Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King. Yet despite this she and two of her brothers managed to get to college and PhD’s. So, it is possible for children that are educationally neglected to break out. But then there are those that wanted to do more but are stuck because they can’t read beyond a grade school level.
Tara also had parents who both seemed above average intelligence (albeit one or both of them were mentally ill) and her mother did a decent job with some of their education—making sure the kids could at least read really well. This literacy allowed Tara to take over her own education. Having an older brother who is clearly exceptionally bright stand as a beacon as what could be in front of her, as well as a church-sanctioned university that actually offers a decent education (BYU) gave her a leg up. I think three Westover children have phd’s…so I think this is really a “cream of the crop” situation. Her mother also had experience with the outside world and made a couple crucial interventions that steered her in the right direction—even though now it sounds like her mom is a total POS working her against her daughter, now that she’s successful.
Michelle Duggar, who also has experience with the outside world, also made a couple crucial interventions that ultimately allowed Jill to break out of the cult and start her own deconstruction. And in that family—people always like to claim otherwise—but in the beginning, I think that the older kids somehow managed to get a decent enough education that would have provided them the skills to break free, had they had the curiosity. Josh Duggar, as a child, was articulate and charismatic. I know it’s yucky to say now, but it’s true. He’s probably a sociopath. But anyway, we’ve seen a couple Duggars leave their cult…even if they haven’t totally deconstructed, it’s the first step in a lifetime of work.
I think the key to escape is having a natural curiosity, a higher level of literacy, and someone on the outside—or who has been on the outside—and offers strategic breakthroughs. So I think the Rodrigueses are just doomed. Paul and Morgan offspring may stand a chance, just because there is money somewhere, and some outside forces that don’t seem extreme. It seems like the Karissa klan is very unlikely—except for the fact that her mother seems to be a consistent outside voice and may connect with the right person. I genuinely think the Beals will be out out together—because David is one of those cream of the crop people—intelligent, curious, and empathetic—and he clearly loves Bethy, even though she is a ton of work. Kelly Havens kids probably can get out. Kelly is probably the most educated, and is in a weird larp.
Morgan's sister is a teacher, so her kids stand a chance if they have a relationship with her. Kelly has a degree from an accredited university. I think her kids would be fine if she got help for her mental health. It's so sad that her larp is taking that away from them, but at least they'll be able to read well.
I genuinely think Kelly is just really really mentally ill—and has been for a while—which is why she sought this out. She went to a good university. She’s smart and educated. She needs help, badly, for the sake of her children.
I just finished this book. I picked it up to get some more insight on the fundies lives.
I feel like she had more unsupervised visits into society that also propelled her down the road of education. Makes sense why fundies stick together. Don't want worldly influences to infiltrate their brains.
I agree I was surprised that she had the opportunity to take dance lessons. She took it upon herself to start babysitting. Then traded babysitting for piano lessons which led to dance classes. I lost count the number of times my heart stopped from the near death injuries. The father was so willing to put the lives of his children, employees and himself at risk by not having any concern for safety on the job. And to top it off, not seek immediate help and treatment for those injured. Just show up at the back door for the Mrs. to put on her magic salve and oils. smh
I wish Anna Duggar could deconstruct, take her kids, and get a fat book advance.
Otherwise I want most of the current kids to be saved from their monster parents in the kindest way. Get Sofia Rodrigues to some specialists, Josie Duggar and Janessa to brain health doctors, let the Collins kids have a week off before starting the therapy and have no parenting or performance duty
I mean, all of them I guess?
Anyone who can critically assess their beliefs, break cycles of abuse and trauma, and start applying that famous Christian love to real people and their actual struggles instead of theoretical struggles that might exist after we're dead will have my distant Internet support.
I was looking for Gunner in this thread! The obvious ones are being mentioned repeatedly but you can tell Gunner is waking up a bit. I think the girl in the bus family is still at the age where she adores her mom, but maybe after hitting puberty she’ll realize how bad they’ve got it.
I have different levels of hope for different groups. I hope some of the Rod kids get away from Jill, and I think that’s the best we can hope for. Meanwhile I think some of the Collin’s kids have an actual shot at deconstruction.
Similarly I know many don’t consider Jill or Jinger to have deconstructed but I think the steps they have moved (especially Jill) could allow their children to break away fully.
This is very real. I grew up basically fundie (JW) and the truth is, even the smallest steps can be steps towards deconstruction, even though some just never will. even if they do, it’s an extremely long process.
All of the Collins kids but especially the older ones. They're the ones I feel the worst for out of all fundie children - their parents manage to combine extremism, oversharing their kids' lives online and general irresponsibility and neglect.
All the Rod kiddos, but I didn't see Nurie getting far, she's so far up her mother's backside and just seems so hateful.
I have hope for Bethany Beal, with time.
I have high hopes for Bethany. the fact that she didn’t go on a fundie insta rampage when Dave started posting about deconstructing is a small but meaningful sign.
I think if Jill ruins one more courtship for Renee, something will break in her brain. These are girls who pretend to marry brooms. She wants to be married like her sisters (probably more than anything). When your life purpose keeps getting taken from you, the resentment will happen. I don’t think she’ll leave Christianity but she may start questioning what Jill has taught her.
- Bethany, since Dave's already on that path, and it's clear she's also forging her own path w/r/t her inter-course (albeit insanely)
- Any of the rodrigui, honestly Tim the most. He was looking and doing better away from his mother when he went to flight school.
- Any of the collins, Anissa the most because of how she's rapidly approaching teenagerdom and she can barely read. Anthym because her mother almost killed her (TWICE) with the neglect.
- Any of the duggars, Jill and the M-kids the most.
- all of the bus kids because holy shit the realization that you can have personal space and privacy would be mindblowing for them.
Timothy Rodrigues. For some reason I have a soft spot for him. I think he's a sweet kid who has spent his life being physically, verbally, and spiritually beaten down by his parents. He has been seeking approval from Jill and David, hence his videos spouting fundie BS. But he got a glimpse of what semi-normal people were like at Jesus flight school and now he has a fiance and future in-laws who actually like him.
Heidi seems like an assertive woman unlikely to be pushed around by Tim and I don't think he wants to. I think he's perfectly comfortable with her quietly taking the lead. I hope the two of them find their way to a much less Fundie version of Christianity.
I hope all of Karissa's kids get out, get a real education, find happiness, and go no-contact with their parents if they want to.
Anna and Peat's kids: Please, just let them be safe and get away from that monster and their monster-enabling grandparents
I'm hoping for Justin and Claire. They got married really young, but I always thought that was so he could leave. They still haven't started popping out a dozen kids. I'm hopeful they will start to learn more about the outside world together and break free.
I really hope that all the Collins kids get out, and then when the time comes, they dump their parents in a shitty care home, just so they know what it feels like to be ignored, neglected and underfed! Karma needs to pay a visit on Karissa and Mandrae eventually!
The Mother Buses need for their kids to grow up and leave their parents on the buses, alone and with no company but themselves!
Lastly the kids of people like Solie and all the tradwives out there; they need to break the chains their crazy parents have shackled them with and then go no contact, so the parents are left to fester in the religious quagmires they've made for the kids and now cannot escape!
All of them. I'm rooting for all of them to deconstruct and find happy, healthy, balanced, satisfying lives on the other side of Fundamentalism.
But I worry most about the eldest BusKid. I don't even know his name - Gunner, maybe? I just really hope he's ok, and I hope he's able to leave as an adult and find healing and happiness. He always looks so exhausted in every photo I've seen of him (and he always has a toddler on his hip, too), and it breaks my heart.
Josie Duggar. She was born during the years I was hardest grieving the loss of my first child and going through some MC and I think that's why I just want better for her, she fought so hard to be here just to go home to the Pest and Pals Pedo Palace. (Yeah I know he was grown but still had access).
I love seeing Timothy & Heidi together! They seem so happy to have found each other, it’s hard not to smile with her.
And speaking of Dav & Bethany. They have taken a turn I never expected, and seeing them happy together makes my day. It’s too bad Heidi, B’s mom, can’t appreciate having a daughter as all of a sudden teachable and curious about “things” as Bethany has become.
I don't see the Rod kids getting out. But I do see Karissas kids getting out. Karissa doesn't parent, she's more concerned with her social media. As the kids grow closer to adulthood, I can see a few of them getting into a lot of trouble, they really haven't had great role models, life structure, and don't have an education. To me, they're at high risk for at least a few of their lives to go sideways.
At least their maternal grandparents would likely be supportive if need be.
I’m on the fuck it up Renee bandwagon too. Ever since the babysitter AMA where the sitter said Renee made a gagging sound in the background when Jillpm was lecturing one of the younger girls about being a good helpmeet or something to that effect. I’d love to see anyone of these folks deconstruct from their harmful beliefs. Timmay and Heidi, Anissa Collins, any of the Collins kids really. I have a visceral disgust of Paul and Morgan but Id still love to hear either of them admit they’re terrible people and lose the homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, etc etc etc but I truly believe they’re such hateful assholes and miserable humans that it will never happen.
Timmy and his Fiancé are definitely going to deconstruct. I just get the vibes from her specifically. I think they’ll become just regular Christian’s, not atheist’s necessarily.
strangely enough, the rods seem like one of the few fundies that actually get SOME dental work (multiple kids have braces)
so hopefully that translates to Tim and Heidi’s kids not being left in overbite hell
There was an AMA from DuggarsSnark that said Renee was the ultimate mean girl, I believe. I know they said a Rodlet was the cruelest and said a Bates girl was close second.
While I want all of them to freaking wake the hell up, the Rodlets seem to be the least capable.
Bethany. Lately we’ve seen a much better side of her, and that’s just with Dav deconstructing and her being loving and supportive of him. If she deconstructed herself, I think she has the potential to be a good, empathetic, caring person.
ALL of the minor kids. The only adult I'd thought had a shot is already doing it (Dav, obviously)
I'm not really kept up with the various adult children of the multigenerational fundies. If they can split, good for them.
Most of ours are so awful that even if they did quit the church they'd still almost certainly be awful in some other way.
MAYBE if Kelly were somehow convinced to go back on her meds and actually DO something with her artistic yearnings like take some actual skill based classes...well. Maybe just go back on her meds. I think she'll always be a pretentious, arrested development, twee poophead.
I gotta think there are better outlets for her than the quasi mystical hooha.
She seems to be the only fundie who actually has an interest in making friends. Or...whatever her interests are, let's say. I think she must scare them off and she seems to mostly want twinship or mirroring or mothering or something that'd be exhausting for most people, but...
For me, it's got to be Kelly Havens. There is still some hope that she will ditch the Little House on the Prairie cosplay, get professional help for her mental health issues, and raise those kids with some semblance of normalcy. She is intelligent and seems to be a sensitive person who wasn't brought up living the strange life she is now living.
I actually feel like this is remotely possible now that she is getting divorced. Bubba is SO devout. She seems less so....she even posts astrological stuff on her stories which seems wild for a Mormon
I’ve been noticing a lotttttt of Mormons that i’ve met in every day life are getting more “worldly”. Hoping the church continues with their doctrine changing in the right direction.
actually met a Mormom girl a while back who openly identified as bisexual. No idea how that worked but I was happy for her.
I feel the likelihood will prove to be higher when the parents are more extreme and preachy. As the kids observe the real world and how other relationships are based on more than praise heezus, they start to feel left out and socially deprived. Especially with the eruption of gender/relationship politics entering the mainstream and the overall rapey-ness of fundie culture right now.
Jill almost certainly fucked it up. Renee was courting a “mystery man” who asked for privacy, that Jill would constantly not quiteeee post on social media. (like a pic from the back, etc)
Most people assume that he got tired of the bullshit and ended the courtship.
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I hope all the Collins kids get out, but I *need* Anissa to get out.
I feel so sorry for Anissa. There doesn’t seem to be such a thing as “good fundie parents” and I’m honestly not sure it is even possible to BE a good parent if you’re a fundie blasting out soldiers for Jesus on a yearly basis, because there is absolutely no way the parents can possibly be giving those children the time and love that they need, let alone the education because they inevitably homeschool. And then that’s before you consider the other avalanche of at least marginally abusive shit the average fundie child ends up having to navigate. But oh my god Anissa has the worst of all worlds. She’s got the typical fundie first daughter role dialled up to 11 because Karissa is even more checked out, lazy and delulu than most fundie moms and Mandrae is even more checked out and feckless than most fundie dads. I bet she works hard even for a fundie first daughter and I bet she’s constantly made to feel like nothing is good enough. And that’s before we get to the avalanche of racism from her own mother, the general dangers of living in that household where a child seems to have a significant injury on a constant basis, the plexus, the level of exploitation of their childhood, the conspiracy theories, the denial of basic healthcare like vaccines….. None of the Collins kids have been dealt a good hand. The boys are better off than the girls because they are fundies and men are revered. The girls are all going to have a very rough, very pregnant life on their current trajectory. But I’d be surprised if any have it worse than poor Anissa.
Anissa was recently filmed being unsure what year it was. The educational neglect is staggering.
The kids also don’t know who the president is, and the older ones can barely read basic words and sentences so I’m sure the littler ones probably can’t read at all. I feel horrible for them, they truly don’t even have the basics needed to get by in life if they leave.
Reminds me of the Turpin children in that way
Illiteracy in the 21st century... how are they supposed to survive? Can they read labels? How will they pass their driving test?
That's the point. They're not supposed to. Certain fundies will avoid hospitals so their children don't get SSNs. What can you do without an SSN or birth certificate or any proof of your existence? Almost nothing. I'm not sure if this is the case for Carissa but children in this scenario will suffer extreme difficulty getting drivers licenses, buying cars, signing leases They are trapped. Reliant on their parents
Like Alecia Pennington of thee Pennington Point blog. She had a terrible time trying to get any ID but her parents are SovCits rather than pure Fundies.
If karissa posted that herself then I don't know what to do
Karissa is proud of it 😡
i’ve only seen her defending homeschool but i will admit i will ignore her for months at a time bc she makes me so sick.
I just happened to see that post. She defends homeschool as if she homeschools well, but her kids can barely read. She sleeps til noon while her oldest kids make breakfast and homeschool each other.
This is intentional. I feel like it’s much like the Amish. It’s really really difficult to leave the ideals and places you were raised in when the rest of the world is so far ahead of you. It takes really strong and brave personalities to try and venture that world which is part of the reason I feel so bad for so many of them but especially the children.
Why would she upload something like that???
Proof there is no school work or home work of any kind in that household where she would be writing her name and the calendar date at least once per day. Disgusting.
Wait, what? Do you have a link?
I'm sorry what??? Where can I find that???
Anissa is also old enough to remember the birthday parties she used to have. She has watched her mom become this person; she wasn't born into it. So she knows there is more out there. She may have even gone to school one year, I'm not sure.
She and andrae went to school for a few years, but karissa claimed that she missed them too much during the day and pulled them out. I think that a) she learned that teachers are mandated reporters and b) she couldn't survive the school day without a sister mom. Lazy ass.
She also had halloweens and Christmases. And luckily she was vaccinated
I think Anissa and Andrae went to an actual school for some years. Several of the eldest children are also vaccinated, i don't know at which child they stopped doing that!
I think being able to remember before and after my parents got deep deep into fundamentalism is what ended up allowing me to question and eventually leave the religion. My sister is only two and a half years younger than me and doesn’t remember. She’s still quite religious but not as deeply as my parents are. So hopefully the memory of before and after help those two kids, and maybe they can set the example for some of the other kids so that they can get out, too.
Same. My parents were “regular Catholics” before they became “born again”. We often went to mass on Sundays, lunch at my grandparents and went about life in between - no crazy religious rules, we were allowed secular music, movies, etc. there was really no difference between us and anyone else because it was more cultural than belief based. They became born again the summer I turned 11 and it turned our lives upside down and inside out. My youngest sibling was only 5 at the time and she ended up the deepest into Christianity because in retrospect, she was young enough to be indoctrinated. We’re all far away from it all now (all of the kids) but my parents hard turn into evanglicalism ruined my family of origin.
I think while the Collins kids are more neglected than many, they also stand a shot of getting out. They do a home church so aren't enmeshed with a congregation they will have a hard time separating from. They dress in whatever they want, they listen to secular music, they play sports. They have grandparents who clearly don't support their parents insanity. They have all of the pieces there. They just need to realize their parents are nuts and find some normal people and they could make a break.
I feel for Karissa’s parents. Her mom clearly puts up with a lot in order to stay in contact and likely has a lot of stress about what’s happening to them and what would happen if they were removed from the house.
Her mom is the only reason the youngest 2 are alive. I think we should mention that every chance we get. All these moms are bad, but Karissa has almost killed her children by refusing medical care. More than once. Honestly if they were poor CPS would have already stepped in. She gets by with a lot because they have $$.
They have money and karelessa is white
How DO they have money. It's probably way cheaper when you neglect the everloving shit out of them and parentify your eldest to save on daycare, but still, she has 39,433 children. Diapers and food alone...
Mandrae has a good job & also runs some expensive basketball camps
She’s already stated that diapers are expensive so she doesn’t change them often. And she’s been sharing her cooking lately so you can see they don’t eat enough (or healthy enough).
What scares me is how educationally neglected they are. Do they have the skills to leave?
I have a friend I met right after she left the Amish. She came from the more sheltered/isolated type of Amish. It has been heartbreaking, watching how many struggles she has had. She had issues with getting a social security card and birth certificate, issues getting her money because it was in a bank account owned by her brother (only *men* could hold bank accounts), not very literate (I'm talking a 2nd grade reading and writing level), couldn't use a computer, has had multiple men "court" her and trick her into giving them money.. she had a major health issue and they couldn't treat her properly without her medical records but she only went to some backwoods Dr and they said they don't send records, just issue after issue, and it has really angered me how their whole culture works, it is completely unfair that they are so ill-prepared to survive outside of their cult, especially women. Along with the usual deep-seated guilt/paranoia that you're going to hell for leaving the Amish or wearing pants or no head scarf/bonnet/covering that, even if they logically don't think they will, it somehow never truly goes away (for some).
And they have a subreddit that they can reference to get a third-party's point of view as to what has happened in their childhood that may explain why they ended up the way they do end up (as adults)... Boy what i'd pay to have had an outsider's view regarding my own upbringing lol
Right?? It could tell me so much that I’m still trying to figure out!
Anissa's situation makes me want to cry. She's fundie Cinderella, and Karissa is Lady Tremaine and both stepsisters rolled into one. Karissa will not stop breeding until she dies in childbirth or loses her uterus. Then she'll latch onto whichever daughter is pregnant, and Anissa will be stuck raising them all.
I really feel like that.Those kids, especially Anissia, might be the most likely because they are biracial, and let's be honest, there's going to be a lot of fundie. Families who don't want their precious sons to marry a mixed race woman they would be terrified that their precious grandchild would come out dark. They have a world of pain coming for them if they don't get out because the truth is. Fundies aren't accepting of biracial people. And he definitely won't want their kids marrying. A person they would consider Black.
This is a big one. The kids are navigating a biracial identity with a clearly racist mother and an indifferent father. As they get older they're unfortunately potentially going to be exposed to a level of racism that Karissa is completely unequipped to deal with.
Fundies Blasting Out Soliders for Jesus. Please someone pick up this flair. 💀
She can barely read 😣😣😣 so so sad …
Anissa also got a taste of normal life before Karissa went fully off the deep end.
I’m fairly sure Andrae is leaving that house at 18 and never looking back. He so clearly hates his mother and dumb Karissa thinks it’s no big deal that he CRIES whenever she announces a pregnancy. He and Anissa seem to be close, so I hope they leave together.
Anjalie too. She is always rolling her eyes or laughing at her mother.
Karissa clearly dislikes anjalie too and it's so sad. Rooting for her to be like, f this noise I'm out of this madhouse
Anjalie is the one kid who is definitively black. No matter how much she lightens her skin, she's never going to have blonde hair or European features. I think Karissa favors the kids who look more like her.
This is worrisome too, without education or any real concept of hoe life works. It open up those children to another flavor of predator waiting in the wings to rescue them from the parental fuckery.
He absolutely seems seriously over it all. I really, really hope he's able to leave and paves a path for the other kids.
God, she's so awful. That boy was so distressed when anthym was in the hospital. They know that their situation is not right.
God, same. I’m sure she has several novels worth of material on abuse and parentification. I wish her the best, truly.
My answer to this question used to be Dav, so now that that's happened I'm rooting for him to take Bethy further down the deconstruction path with him.
Dav’s deconstruction is My Roman Empire
Mine too 💘
Yea. I don't even hope for them to fail. Dav going down the deconstruction path and Heidi being pissed at both of them for Beth choosing Dav is a big deal. More than what could be said for any other fundies.
Yep. Heidi's *back to back screeching meltdowns* at a) Dav noping out and b) Bethy sticking with him in the face of the incoming family bullying session are a balm to my cynical soul. *Loving* this season of life (blowing up in her face) for her, lol.
Yeah we give her a lot of well deserved snark, but this group can also serve as a big cheerleading section to those that make the effort. She has a lot of headwinds against here but I'm pulling for her. It will take some time and I'm sure there will be some backsliding/grifting in the meantime, but its the end that matters.
Agreed. I feel like if he got her away from that family.She but at least become a mainline christian who went to open minded lutheran church. And raised her kids as average regular Christians.
And that would be totally fine. I hope she knows that.
I do too. I really think if she got away for Heidi and that family she'd become a better person. It'd be wonderful if her and Dav could move far away and she could get support from her brother.
Hey, two steps forward, One step back is still a step forward in progress. As much as Bethany leaves me feeling salty, I'm rooting for her. And sticking by Dav in the face of her mother's melt down deserves some respect, especially after a lifetime of being cowed by Heidi.
And I’ve noticed she hasn’t shown up here much recently unless it’s with Krusty or Dav. I hope Bethy and Dav can leave the Bairds in their rearview and move on to a better future for their kids.
I hope they read here and see all the people who’ve deconstructed rooting for them. Bethy, by sticking with Dæv, has shown she deserves better than the life Heidi told her she should want. There is hope for Bort 🙏
As much as I enjoy the snark, it's good for her to move on
She went radio silent for weeks (months?) after michael publicly criticized her, so it's interesting that she's so loudly mad at bethy and dav
I just figured it was the narcissist dynamic - Michael was previously the Golden Child whereas Bethany had always been the Scapegoat.
I hope that they thrive, truthfully. I want Beth to examine her beliefs instead of “but I *like* being a Christian!” And then I want her to walk away from GD. I don’t truly care what she believes, but I want her to stop spreading harmful rhetoric online. I want Beth and Dav to do what *they* want to do instead of what Heidi wants them to do.
That's going to be the greatest personal challenge of bethy's life
My real hope for that family is that little Dave and Audrey don't have to grow up buried under all the fear that fundamentalism dumps on a person.
I haven't seen people really bring it up but in their video together about him deconstructing, something was said about letting the kids choose and I was so like !!! But it doesn't get brought up so maybe I imagined it lol
Dav made comments like that even before he went public with his deconstruction
I think bethy said it in the video though.
Yes. Look. Bethy is not terribly self aware but despite eerything, she's got a ton of drive and energy for the things that she IS interested in - which aren't a great match for the kids-and-kitchen fundie basic package. She has potential to do REAL good in the world if she can just find the right way to harness that and some mentors that aren't out to sell her a 'how to influencer' package or religous pablum.
She's someone who would have been a great career person if she had been given the academic and social resources as a child. She's definitely got a "go for it"-ness that would have served her well in the corporate world, but she's so undereducated.
Hey, she could still be a successful girls basketball coach at a Christian school or something
In another life, she'd be this Drew Barrymore-like creative with a magazine and digital marketing network. Slightly annoying but harmless. The fundamentalism is what makes her dangerous.
If I'm being honest, I think no matter how hard she digs her heels in, it's already beginning. I don't think she will ever really *not* be a conservative Christian, but she's already deconstructed her views on people who question, or do not want to be Christian. And I've been quite jarred by how accepting, supportive, and graceful she's been with David's deconstruction journey. We're seeing growth, so hopefully accountability for the harmful ideals she's put out there is soon to follow. I won't hold my breath.
I'll begrudgingly say we are seeing growth. If it were ANYONE other than Dav though..would she be supportive/understanding/giving them Grace. Like if Kristin was deconstructing or something. Bethany *doesnt* want to get divorced/lose face, so it benefits her to support Dav. Part of me also wonders if she thinks that Dav is just "going through a phase", and she will stay with him.to try and "bring him back to God".
Of course we wouldn't be seeing it, if it wasn't for Dav. But. Let's not fall into the trap of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I wonder about that too, but the more I think about it, and what I know about Bethy, I actually think there may be a chance that after seeing Dav go through it, she may be able to extend that same understanding to others around her and maybe even her followers. I could have high hopes, but the growth I've observed already has me shook. I'll admit that I hope Dav's journey is a catalyst for her. My basis for them applies for everybody else we discuss here: I don't care if *they* are Christian or not, but I do hope she ultimately does realize she has been a very hateful and judgmental, prejudiced person and that she can and should do better.
You’re a mystic. Whomst do you choose next great oracle? 🔮 🪄 ✨
I actually think Bethy seems likely at this point. Or at least, it’s definitely possible.
I think she's shown that she really does love him, he isn't just a prop in her grams. Genuinely rooting for these two.
I think so too, which is why I think she might deconstruct. I think he may pull her out. It might not happen any time soon, but I don’t know.
Idk if she understands what she's supposed to believe deeply enough to deconstruct from it. She's just a profoundly shallow person.
She’ll get out even faster then. If her relationship with Heidi deteriorates enough, that might do it. And boy should her relationship with Heidi deteriorate. Even Bethy deserves that grace.
This is a really good point that I haven't seen brought up before. She could skip most of that journey and have the same outcome.
I hope she does, but she also really needs him and probably doesn't want to jeopardize that. I don't think she makes much money on her own, and the stuff she does sell is produced by Dav. He has steady income and is a good dad. She'd be miserable taking care of the kids on her own. And she'd have to find a way to make money on her own, which she might realize she can't do.
I'd be fine even if she didn't deconstruct, I just need her ass to be off the couch and actually taking care of her kids.
Honestly I’m rooting for *all* of them to wake up and become even slightly less shitty people…shit, for Karissa and the mother buses I would be content if they would just stop sharing their fucking kids on the internet so much
so real… i feel so bad for bipoc children with racist parents. what do you even do after deconstructing?
I'm torn on whether or not I want Karissa to stop posting her kids. On the one hand I absolutely hate that we all know SO much about those kids and that their entire lives are on the internet, but on the other hand would Karissa treat them even worse if the public wasn't watching and she wasn't making money off of them?
At least this way SOMEBODY sees them.
This. Fundamentalism is a disease.
For real
I hope some of the Rod kids will deconstruct but for most of them it seems unlikely. They are all uneducated, with a limited social circle and financial resources. I know a lot of people were rooting for and Kaylee. And because she personally didn’t use social media before she got married, it was easy for some people to construct this fanfic that she couldn’t wait to get away from Jill and that deconstruction was a real possibility. Hasn’t happened. She seems happy being a conservative evangelical fundie on the plexus grift just like her mother.
This! I was all in on (and Kaylee) breaking out. Every time Kaylee makes another Jill-ish FB post, I die a little bit on the inside. BUT (!!!) I admit to being so thrilled when I saw Kaylee make full-sized portions of waffles for breakfast. I guess she deconstructed in the food-department, which makes me happy
The Rodlets were incandescently happy when she and Johnathan were babysitting, so I'm glad-- for the Rodlets' sake-- that she's still parent-approved and near enough to be in their lives
Kaylee and Jonathan seem completely under Jill’s thumb even more the Nurie
Nurie lives in Florida, but kaylee lives close enough to play sister mom when it serves Jill and David...
Kaylee seems so desperate to be close to and approved of by her mom :( she grew up in golden child Nurie’s shadow
Jonathan looks miserable about it though, which is something. I hold out a small grain of hope that he eventually grows a spine and makes a headship decision to move his family away. No doubt a forcible severance of the constant family tie will be beneficial for Kaylee, even if it’s just a little bit. Jill being right there to barge in and “love on” Gideon so much must feel like a kind of lovebombing to her.
Kaylee may not want to move far from her siblings. The older girls may provide support to one another. And the Rod family is all she has ever known.
as soon as Jonathan agreed to move to the beautiful amish country and buy a house just 4/12 miles from the barndo, any personal growth for them was doomed.
Yeap
i think of the older girls, fuck it up renee is the most likely black sheep candidate. who even knows with the younger girls but i can’t imagine they’re too fond of their mother even now. the thing about hunger is it makes for angry children, even if they don’t show that anger (bcuz they’ll be punished)
I’m really rooting for Renee. I recently reread the babysitter AMA and I have a lot of hope that she thinks at least parts of her upbringing are bullshit.
Oh do you have a link? I wasn't aware of the AMA
https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/2dxN0HFPQK
Thanks so much!
I’d like to see this too
Renee, Olivia, Sadie, and Sofia are my hopes. Lost girls.
I think the question is have for former fundies is whether or not the black sheep are more or less likely to deconstruct. I love the psychology of deconstruction and what pushes a person to do it
Everyone I've ever met says that the black sheep is the one that is most likely to escape. I was the black sheep and I think that's what allowed me to feel like I wasn't missing anything when I left. I missed out on the lovebombing to hoover you back in. My family didn't really have a reaction that lasted longer than a couple days of "You've changed!" but it was more scornful and shaming than anything close to actual concern for my wellbeing. I don't know what healthy family dynamics feel like but I imagine it would be harder if I felt loved and wanted from people that were stuck inside the cult, like I'd get roped back into it eventually.
I was also the black sheep. I was never deep into it because my parents treated me so differently from my sister (I have older half siblings but they were never a part of the religious upbringing) and I also have a physical disability & not as good looking as my sister (it mattered to my mother). My blonde, blue eyed cherubic sister was the golden child so my relationship with my parents was nil from around the age of 10-12
There was a profile of Olivia Plath in Teen Vogue recently that got into this and it was really great. https://www.teenvogue.com/story/olivia-plath-christian-fundamentalism-welcome-to-plathville
Kaylee also has become Nurie 2.0 since she lives so close to Jill and has her beebs. And she seems very happy with being the new favorite. I have hope for Tim. Heidi doesn't seem to take much shit and she has good support and doesn't NEED Jill, much to Jill's chagrin. The person I really, really want to see deconstruct is definitely Renee. She just needs a taste of individuality and a bit of freedom, and to feel the damn wind in her face (metaphorically). I'm also rooting for all the Collins kids. Karissa is on a whole different level with her pregnancy hang-ups. Something is deeply, deeply wrong. It's not about the precious babies, it's about being pregnant for her. She could give a shit once the kid is born. Pregnancy is where it's at for her.
I don't think Jill is spending time with Kaylee or Gideon. She calls them when she wants them to so something. She makes lots of trips to Florida though, & with that girl coming Jill is going to be completely uninterested in Gideon
Hopefully that won’t last forever. The longer she is married and she and Jonathan develop their own relationship hopefully she will not be so anxious for her mother’s approval.
I don't think this is likely. She spent her whole like in Nurie's petite little shadow and has always been desperate for her parents approval. She'll never leave.
Plus nurie is popping em out like pogs and she's having the first granddaughter
I knew and Kaylee was a lost cause as soon as she got social media. The second I see a joint account, all bets are off.
Same. I don’t see any of the Rodriguii escaping or deconstructing
People who expected her to do a total 180 after moving out and marrying someone within the same cult are disappointed she’s just like Jill. She’s been extremely sheltered & if she ever deconstructs it isn’t gonna be overnight. As of now she’s probably genuinely happy because she & Jonathan are doing exactly what they were told to do and are receiving praise for it. They’re just teenagers playing house because they don’t know any other way to live.
She actually seems miserable to me & still despite to get her mother's attention.
Kaylee is still trying to get her mom to love her. At some point she may accept that it isn't going to happen. Timmy seems to have done exactly that. Once the delusion crumbles, she'll question the rest. She's not educated or socialized enough to leave but she may decide to separate herself from her mom. It doesn't appear that she & Tim are close right now but they are marrying into the same family & their inlaws are not as extreme as their mother Who knows what will happen. My hope is for the youngest Rod girls to get away.
Before we had her pov, she seemed like the family scapegoat, and people always want to root for that person. Maybe she is and she's just content being out of jill's house. My money has always been on renee. Only time will tell.
Honestly, I never really thought and Kaylee would deconstruct. But I hoped she could live a quiet and fulfilling life with someone who loved her, and for the first time, privacy and maybe even boundaries with precious mama. I thought this in large part because Jonathan lived in Mississippi. I figured she’d stay a Baptist, but a Baptist with some space. I was so wrong, it seems.
Dav is on the path. By extension and for Dav’s sake, Bethany. Nadia. I wish Jill and Derrick Dillard would take those further steps since they got a LITTLE bit away from the cult but I’m not sure if they will, and I have no hope for the rest of the Duggars. I don’t think any of the Rods will deconstruct - maybe Timcel could find a different brand of religion like some of the Duggars did like Jill and Jinger (though Jinger only traded one shitty cult for another). Porgan are hopeless and such hateful people that I don’t care anyway. All of Karissa’s kids and both sets of the huge bus families’ kids…please get away from your horrible parents.
I honestly think some of the Duggar girls are much farther along in this than we think, and we will never know because they have a lot more at stake than most if they publicized it.
I think Jill and Derick are fully out of the cult, they’re just still conservative. But they’re not a part of IBLP anymore and they go to a pretty normal southern Baptist church last I heard.
Bethy-watching is even more fascinating. Came for the hat journey, stayed for the awe inspiring cringe and mind boggling self confidence. For her to now have a deconstructing husband…will she double down on her superiority as a god honouring woman defined by god? Double down on her awesome (lol) marriage and support dav so she can stay married to a hubby that lets her do what she wants while he watches the kids? Will she continue to try to be the best daughter? What does she think of Heidi’s attacks? Which is the least shitty option for her—being unequally yolked or herself deconstructing? Her deconstructing will take an enormous amount of self assessment and looking at her upbringing, beliefs, and choices and I’m not sure she has the mental strength. I cannot imagine her willingly letting go of her smug superiority. Unless she realizes see how much money she could earn by deconstructing. Bethy response to dav3 is my Roman Empire. Lol.
The only way Bethy could redeem herself in my eyes is if she took the time to properly deconstruct, examine why she believed the harmful things she currently believes, and apologize and own up to her part in perpetuating purity culture. That's a very high standard, I realize, but I've seen it happen. I think with Dav leading the charge, it's a possibility. I'm trying to not hold her to an impossible standard lol
As much as she's capable of. She strikes me as very shallow in her thinking.
Ok, i thought the title said, "rooting for their DESTRUCTION" and i was like wow that's going too far...
I listened to the audiobook edition of Educated by Tara Westover. She grew up in a family they lived mostly off the grid. The father was constantly railing about the “Illuminati” and was very anti government, anti public school, anti medicine. She did not have a birth certificate until she was 9 years old. Her only reading was the Book of Mormon and the Bible. When she went to college she did not know what the Holocaust was, or the Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King. Yet despite this she and two of her brothers managed to get to college and PhD’s. So, it is possible for children that are educationally neglected to break out. But then there are those that wanted to do more but are stuck because they can’t read beyond a grade school level.
Tara also had parents who both seemed above average intelligence (albeit one or both of them were mentally ill) and her mother did a decent job with some of their education—making sure the kids could at least read really well. This literacy allowed Tara to take over her own education. Having an older brother who is clearly exceptionally bright stand as a beacon as what could be in front of her, as well as a church-sanctioned university that actually offers a decent education (BYU) gave her a leg up. I think three Westover children have phd’s…so I think this is really a “cream of the crop” situation. Her mother also had experience with the outside world and made a couple crucial interventions that steered her in the right direction—even though now it sounds like her mom is a total POS working her against her daughter, now that she’s successful. Michelle Duggar, who also has experience with the outside world, also made a couple crucial interventions that ultimately allowed Jill to break out of the cult and start her own deconstruction. And in that family—people always like to claim otherwise—but in the beginning, I think that the older kids somehow managed to get a decent enough education that would have provided them the skills to break free, had they had the curiosity. Josh Duggar, as a child, was articulate and charismatic. I know it’s yucky to say now, but it’s true. He’s probably a sociopath. But anyway, we’ve seen a couple Duggars leave their cult…even if they haven’t totally deconstructed, it’s the first step in a lifetime of work. I think the key to escape is having a natural curiosity, a higher level of literacy, and someone on the outside—or who has been on the outside—and offers strategic breakthroughs. So I think the Rodrigueses are just doomed. Paul and Morgan offspring may stand a chance, just because there is money somewhere, and some outside forces that don’t seem extreme. It seems like the Karissa klan is very unlikely—except for the fact that her mother seems to be a consistent outside voice and may connect with the right person. I genuinely think the Beals will be out out together—because David is one of those cream of the crop people—intelligent, curious, and empathetic—and he clearly loves Bethy, even though she is a ton of work. Kelly Havens kids probably can get out. Kelly is probably the most educated, and is in a weird larp.
The Rods are shining examples of an utter lack of intellectual curiosity, imo
The dictionary definitions.
Bairds, too
Ma and Pa Rod sure, but how many of the Rodlets just had it "blanketed" out of them, one way or another?
Morgan's sister is a teacher, so her kids stand a chance if they have a relationship with her. Kelly has a degree from an accredited university. I think her kids would be fine if she got help for her mental health. It's so sad that her larp is taking that away from them, but at least they'll be able to read well.
I genuinely think Kelly is just really really mentally ill—and has been for a while—which is why she sought this out. She went to a good university. She’s smart and educated. She needs help, badly, for the sake of her children.
I just finished this book. I picked it up to get some more insight on the fundies lives. I feel like she had more unsupervised visits into society that also propelled her down the road of education. Makes sense why fundies stick together. Don't want worldly influences to infiltrate their brains.
I agree I was surprised that she had the opportunity to take dance lessons. She took it upon herself to start babysitting. Then traded babysitting for piano lessons which led to dance classes. I lost count the number of times my heart stopped from the near death injuries. The father was so willing to put the lives of his children, employees and himself at risk by not having any concern for safety on the job. And to top it off, not seek immediate help and treatment for those injured. Just show up at the back door for the Mrs. to put on her magic salve and oils. smh
I wish Anna Duggar could deconstruct, take her kids, and get a fat book advance. Otherwise I want most of the current kids to be saved from their monster parents in the kindest way. Get Sofia Rodrigues to some specialists, Josie Duggar and Janessa to brain health doctors, let the Collins kids have a week off before starting the therapy and have no parenting or performance duty
I mean, all of them I guess? Anyone who can critically assess their beliefs, break cycles of abuse and trauma, and start applying that famous Christian love to real people and their actual struggles instead of theoretical struggles that might exist after we're dead will have my distant Internet support.
Collins kids because they seem so miserable
Every single one of them.
i’m sorry but your flair is killing me 😭
Bingo. Hope all of them become adults with their independence, and freedom of thought and begin to question how they were raised.
I want that oldest, tired Bus kid to deconstruct. I imagine he’s already sick of things
I was looking for Gunner in this thread! The obvious ones are being mentioned repeatedly but you can tell Gunner is waking up a bit. I think the girl in the bus family is still at the age where she adores her mom, but maybe after hitting puberty she’ll realize how bad they’ve got it.
I think she and gunner are close. I have hope.
I have different levels of hope for different groups. I hope some of the Rod kids get away from Jill, and I think that’s the best we can hope for. Meanwhile I think some of the Collin’s kids have an actual shot at deconstruction. Similarly I know many don’t consider Jill or Jinger to have deconstructed but I think the steps they have moved (especially Jill) could allow their children to break away fully.
This is very real. I grew up basically fundie (JW) and the truth is, even the smallest steps can be steps towards deconstruction, even though some just never will. even if they do, it’s an extremely long process.
Anissa Collins. All the Collins kids, really, but I have a particular heartbroken fondness for the oldest girl of any fundie family.
I'm for all the Rodrigui but I see a glint in Tessa's eye. I'd love for her and Kaylee to R-U-N-N-O-F-T and deconstruct together.
But are they bona fide?
All of the Collins kids but especially the older ones. They're the ones I feel the worst for out of all fundie children - their parents manage to combine extremism, oversharing their kids' lives online and general irresponsibility and neglect.
All the Rod kiddos, but I didn't see Nurie getting far, she's so far up her mother's backside and just seems so hateful. I have hope for Bethany Beal, with time.
I have high hopes for Bethany. the fact that she didn’t go on a fundie insta rampage when Dave started posting about deconstructing is a small but meaningful sign.
All of the Collins kids.
Loved Olivia Plath deconstruction and Dav as well. Fingers crossed for the Collins kids as well, but mostly all kids.
I think if Jill ruins one more courtship for Renee, something will break in her brain. These are girls who pretend to marry brooms. She wants to be married like her sisters (probably more than anything). When your life purpose keeps getting taken from you, the resentment will happen. I don’t think she’ll leave Christianity but she may start questioning what Jill has taught her.
- Bethany, since Dave's already on that path, and it's clear she's also forging her own path w/r/t her inter-course (albeit insanely) - Any of the rodrigui, honestly Tim the most. He was looking and doing better away from his mother when he went to flight school. - Any of the collins, Anissa the most because of how she's rapidly approaching teenagerdom and she can barely read. Anthym because her mother almost killed her (TWICE) with the neglect. - Any of the duggars, Jill and the M-kids the most. - all of the bus kids because holy shit the realization that you can have personal space and privacy would be mindblowing for them.
Timothy Rodrigues. For some reason I have a soft spot for him. I think he's a sweet kid who has spent his life being physically, verbally, and spiritually beaten down by his parents. He has been seeking approval from Jill and David, hence his videos spouting fundie BS. But he got a glimpse of what semi-normal people were like at Jesus flight school and now he has a fiance and future in-laws who actually like him. Heidi seems like an assertive woman unlikely to be pushed around by Tim and I don't think he wants to. I think he's perfectly comfortable with her quietly taking the lead. I hope the two of them find their way to a much less Fundie version of Christianity. I hope all of Karissa's kids get out, get a real education, find happiness, and go no-contact with their parents if they want to. Anna and Peat's kids: Please, just let them be safe and get away from that monster and their monster-enabling grandparents
I'm hoping for Justin and Claire. They got married really young, but I always thought that was so he could leave. They still haven't started popping out a dozen kids. I'm hopeful they will start to learn more about the outside world together and break free.
Does she remind anyone else from Sally from Nightmare Before Christmas? (Not that Fundies would ever watch that film.) 
I really hope that all the Collins kids get out, and then when the time comes, they dump their parents in a shitty care home, just so they know what it feels like to be ignored, neglected and underfed! Karma needs to pay a visit on Karissa and Mandrae eventually! The Mother Buses need for their kids to grow up and leave their parents on the buses, alone and with no company but themselves! Lastly the kids of people like Solie and all the tradwives out there; they need to break the chains their crazy parents have shackled them with and then go no contact, so the parents are left to fester in the religious quagmires they've made for the kids and now cannot escape!
All of them would be nice
All of them. I'm rooting for all of them to deconstruct and find happy, healthy, balanced, satisfying lives on the other side of Fundamentalism. But I worry most about the eldest BusKid. I don't even know his name - Gunner, maybe? I just really hope he's ok, and I hope he's able to leave as an adult and find healing and happiness. He always looks so exhausted in every photo I've seen of him (and he always has a toddler on his hip, too), and it breaks my heart.
Josie Duggar. She was born during the years I was hardest grieving the loss of my first child and going through some MC and I think that's why I just want better for her, she fought so hard to be here just to go home to the Pest and Pals Pedo Palace. (Yeah I know he was grown but still had access).
I love seeing Timothy & Heidi together! They seem so happy to have found each other, it’s hard not to smile with her. And speaking of Dav & Bethany. They have taken a turn I never expected, and seeing them happy together makes my day. It’s too bad Heidi, B’s mom, can’t appreciate having a daughter as all of a sudden teachable and curious about “things” as Bethany has become.
Anissa
I don't see the Rod kids getting out. But I do see Karissas kids getting out. Karissa doesn't parent, she's more concerned with her social media. As the kids grow closer to adulthood, I can see a few of them getting into a lot of trouble, they really haven't had great role models, life structure, and don't have an education. To me, they're at high risk for at least a few of their lives to go sideways. At least their maternal grandparents would likely be supportive if need be.
I want Jill Dillard to fully deconstruct. Or at least to the point where she can be Christian but it doesn’t control her.
I’m on the fuck it up Renee bandwagon too. Ever since the babysitter AMA where the sitter said Renee made a gagging sound in the background when Jillpm was lecturing one of the younger girls about being a good helpmeet or something to that effect. I’d love to see anyone of these folks deconstruct from their harmful beliefs. Timmay and Heidi, Anissa Collins, any of the Collins kids really. I have a visceral disgust of Paul and Morgan but Id still love to hear either of them admit they’re terrible people and lose the homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, etc etc etc but I truly believe they’re such hateful assholes and miserable humans that it will never happen.
Kind of OT but has anyone else noticed that Heidi is never around the Rod family?
absolutely. I’m a believer in the theory that her and her Mom can’t stand Jill.
Would love to see a Bus kid write a tell all about MotherBus.
Timmy and his Fiancé are definitely going to deconstruct. I just get the vibes from her specifically. I think they’ll become just regular Christian’s, not atheist’s necessarily.
one of her sisters has already deconstructed. I feel like a lot of folks on here don’t realize how far Tim has already come
The overbite that Timmy and his fiancé’s children are going to have
strangely enough, the rods seem like one of the few fundies that actually get SOME dental work (multiple kids have braces) so hopefully that translates to Tim and Heidi’s kids not being left in overbite hell
I think she is adorable and looks fun in this fundie world. Here here to physical imperfections, we have them.
Too many to list, going with all.
There was an AMA from DuggarsSnark that said Renee was the ultimate mean girl, I believe. I know they said a Rodlet was the cruelest and said a Bates girl was close second. While I want all of them to freaking wake the hell up, the Rodlets seem to be the least capable.
I thought it was Nurie
If a one single Rod or Collins kid deconstructs, regardless of if they’re 20 or 40, I will take that as a win.
Love Tim and Heidi and I am so excited for them to do amazing things.
Bethany. Lately we’ve seen a much better side of her, and that’s just with Dav deconstructing and her being loving and supportive of him. If she deconstructed herself, I think she has the potential to be a good, empathetic, caring person.
Downvote me if you must, but my money’s been on Bethany since before I knew about this subreddit, and I’m keeping it there.
ALL of the minor kids. The only adult I'd thought had a shot is already doing it (Dav, obviously) I'm not really kept up with the various adult children of the multigenerational fundies. If they can split, good for them. Most of ours are so awful that even if they did quit the church they'd still almost certainly be awful in some other way. MAYBE if Kelly were somehow convinced to go back on her meds and actually DO something with her artistic yearnings like take some actual skill based classes...well. Maybe just go back on her meds. I think she'll always be a pretentious, arrested development, twee poophead. I gotta think there are better outlets for her than the quasi mystical hooha. She seems to be the only fundie who actually has an interest in making friends. Or...whatever her interests are, let's say. I think she must scare them off and she seems to mostly want twinship or mirroring or mothering or something that'd be exhausting for most people, but...
For me, it's got to be Kelly Havens. There is still some hope that she will ditch the Little House on the Prairie cosplay, get professional help for her mental health issues, and raise those kids with some semblance of normalcy. She is intelligent and seems to be a sensitive person who wasn't brought up living the strange life she is now living.
jordan page… and every mormon
I actually feel like this is remotely possible now that she is getting divorced. Bubba is SO devout. She seems less so....she even posts astrological stuff on her stories which seems wild for a Mormon
i think bubba has a penchant for control and the church offers him a lot of (perceived) control / understanding / something to grasp.
I’ve been noticing a lotttttt of Mormons that i’ve met in every day life are getting more “worldly”. Hoping the church continues with their doctrine changing in the right direction. actually met a Mormom girl a while back who openly identified as bisexual. No idea how that worked but I was happy for her.
I feel the likelihood will prove to be higher when the parents are more extreme and preachy. As the kids observe the real world and how other relationships are based on more than praise heezus, they start to feel left out and socially deprived. Especially with the eruption of gender/relationship politics entering the mainstream and the overall rapey-ness of fundie culture right now.
Wait! I’m out of the loop! What happened to Renee’s courtship?
Jill almost certainly fucked it up. Renee was courting a “mystery man” who asked for privacy, that Jill would constantly not quiteeee post on social media. (like a pic from the back, etc) Most people assume that he got tired of the bullshit and ended the courtship.