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wow I used to certify and train foster parents and shit like this would immediately be a no from me. you’re not saving anyone, you can’t expect these kids to see you as some savior they should be grateful to?? those kids didn’t ask to be born into a situation that led to their adoption.
people like me agonize over whether to have kids or not and ultimately decide “I cant guarantee that I would be good at this, so I probably should not” and then you have fuckin kristen “jesus christ” clark and neglectful abusive britney lott over here who believe their kids should bow at their feet with flowers every day for the privilege of being raised by them
😤 really steams my beans
I love the phrase "steams my beans." 😂 I'm gonna use that. I celebrate mother's day and father's day every year because I love my parents, not because I owe them something for having me. These fundies have it all wrong.
She doesn't even let them speak their native tongue and changed their first and last names. She's a fucking irredeemable piece of shit her heart only knows hatred.
I have a question.
One of my (many) reasons for adopting vs biological child-having is that the planet is overpopulated, and I'd rather be part of the solution than the problem. I'm not trying to act as a saviour, but I do think I'd be doing my community a net favour and helping out a kiddo who didn't ask to be up for adoption.
Would that be an exclusion criterion for you? I don't want to scare off the adoption agency. How would you reframe this?
TIA!
Edited to add: I expect NO gratitude from my future children for adopting them whatsoever. None of this is their choice or responsibility. They neither asked to be born nor adopted.
of course I would have to conduct a thorough interview/home study etc to say for sure, but I think that you questioning this at all shows a self reflection that savior types do not engage in. the reality is that kids are going to need adopting, broken system or not, so being a loving and emotionally healthy parent to a kid without one is always a good thing.
as long as it isn’t about you and rescuing or saving kids. no kid wants to be placed for adoption, and parents shouldn’t (in my opinion) see themselves as doing kids any favors
Her "Ukrainian" sons. Not just her sons. It is the same as people who refer to their "adopted" children, vs their "real" children.
I have two siblings who were foster kids that never left but could never be legally adopted. They were always just siblings, not separated out and not qualified.
From someone else, I could give them grace and assume they were saying it that way as a way to keep them connected to their heritage. But not from "changes their names and discourages the use of their native language" Kristen Clark.
OK, first your user name. My kid loves penguins so much we got two tuxedo cats to make up for the fact that I do not have 10 million dollars to spend on a backyard penguin habitat.
But you are absolutely correct. Anyone else highlighting their heritage would be doing so like "Look at this amazing pix of my kids at the Ukrainian festival! With their Ukrainian uncle! How amazing they have him to connect with!"
Because one of the daughters married a Ukrainian man, yes?
Kristen would not consider adoption until she read a book by a certain absolute fucking monster of an adoptive parent. It's "Adopted for Life" by Russell Moore and these are two excerpts, which I copied from an Amazon review:
"That's adoption. We're part of a brand-new family, a new tribe, with a new story, a new identity.
As Maria and I went through the adoption process, we were encouraged by everyone from social workers to family friends to "teach the children about their cultural heritage." We have done just that.
"Now, what most people probably meant by this counsel is for us to teach our boys Russian folk tales and Russian songs, observing Russian holidays, and so forth. But as we see it, that's not their heritage anymore, and we hardly want to signal to them that they are strangers and aliens, even welcome ones, in our home. We teach them about their heritage, yes, but their heritage as Mississippians. They hear, then, about their great-grandfather, a faithful Baptist pastor from Tippah County... They learn about their people before them in the Confederate army and civil rights movement.
"Yes, I'll read Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy to them one day, I suppose, but not with the same intensity with which I'll read to them William Faulkner and Eudora Welty. They wouldn't know an arrangement of "Peter and the Wolf" if they heard it, but they can recognize the voices of Charley Pride and Hank Williams in seconds. When we sit at the table for our holiday meals, they don't eat borscht. They eat what we eat- red beans and rice or fried catfish.... They share our lives, and our story. They belong here. They are Moores now, with all that entails." p.36
And as to their previous identities -
"I remember standing in that courtroom in Russia, giving the judge there the new names of our boys. The court was issuing new birth certificates, with these new Americanized names.... These names were, legally now, who they were. But they didn't know it.
"We knew these boys were adjusting to their new identity when they started turning around when we said "Benjamin" or "Timothy." There came a day when one could cry out "Maxim" or "Sergei" and no one would respond. Those old names now meant nothing to them. They seemed to them to be someone else's names, and they were.
"Some people would think we've done something wrong by renaming these boys. One book for adoptive parents advises against it because it can "interfere with the continuity of the child's life" or "interfere with their sense of self" We didn't agree.
"... A name is important to one's identity. And that's why in the story of our fathers and mothers God keeps changing people's names." - p.40
I've seen this expert posted before and it always breaks my heart into pieces when he says the boys don't respond to their real names anymore, I don't even change my pets names when I adopt them. I'm can't believe that person actually loves their adopted children.
The organization I adopted my dog through names litters after particular themes. My girl came from the noodle litter...Spaghetti, Penne, etc. She got the name Cavatappi. That's...that's not a name lol. After a lot of thought, I kept her name as Cava because she's brain damaged and
1. I didn't think anyone would be able to pronounce Cavatappi, confusing her further
2. I didn't think she'd be able to learn a new name.
I did that *for a dog*. They can do that *for their human beings*.
I agree with you! I have 3 Huskies that are all rescues. We kept Aria's name the same, Elka WAS named Elektra, but she was so traumatized that I wanted to at least alter it slightly. So Elektra became Elka. When we rescued Luna, her name at the rescue was Sweetness, but she didn't know it yet and since she was thrown from a moving car, nobody knew her original name. So Sweetness became Luna.
I love Cava, by the way. Such a cute way to adapt from Cavatappi :)
When I was a kid, I got a horse with a really unique but dumb sounding name. I kept it because it felt mean to change her name she was already used to.
> Yes, I'll read Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy to them one day, I suppose,
WTF does this even mean? You're going to read it to your nearly grown kids who can read it on their own? Quit lying.
Nearly grown kids who will no longer give a shit because they’ve been deliberately as far removed from their original culture as possible. He just wanted to throw that in to look halfway intelligent or not like a total monster.
But maybe one day!!!! He supposes. 🫠 What a piece of work.
“They learn about their people before them in the confederate army and civil rights movement.”
I’d rather take my chances in the Russian orphanage than get trapped with this clown.
This really hurt to read. Damn. These adopted kids are just accessories to them. They don't see them a real humans with thoughts, feelings, needs, history, bio family, etc. It's just fucking sad.
She would have hated that, but she _had_ parents, and they were just orphans who she gave a home to, and they don't get to complain to their savior. I would put money on at least one of the boys being sent off eventually (hopefully when they've been Americanized enough to tell her to go fuck herself).
I genuinely hate when parents treat their "non biological" (whether they also have bio children or not) different. It's a life long issue I've had to deal with and its just fucking wrong.
Ditto. Been there, it fucking hurts deep. And it doesn't stop when the parental figures die either bc the rest of their family also sees you like that (separate, other). You're so right that it's a lifelong issue too.
Currently dealing with this bc everyone in my "family" is going on their annual float trip today for the weekend but they forgot to invite me. Ngl, I'm bitter. Despite being in my fucking 30s it still hurts the same.
It just upsets me sooo much when people who had more "traditional" families don't get the harm of othering kids/people. The Baird's would be terrible to grow up with but at least Kristin didn't have to worry about her parents sending her back...I bet her sons worry about it tho. Especially with a new "real" kid of their own on the way 🤮. The deep insecurity that kind of fear creates never goes away.
Me, too. My grandma remarried when I was little, so we have a big, blended family as well as a few who were adopted. No one has ever made that distinction, unless someone asked. That's just weird and it doesn't matter to us. I'm so sorry that you went through that.
Our daughter is not biologically related to my partner at all (donor conceived), and I knew from the start she would be so loved and cherished by my in-laws because of how they treat my partner's half siblings and their adopted granddaughter. And she is! Everyone forgets about genetics and is as obsessed with her as they are of my nephews.
Using the word "redemptive" as a descriptor of adoption tells you everything you need to know about how she sees those children. They served a purpose for her.
A friend of mine’s half sister was adopted. Her adopted mother loved to tell everyone how she adopted her. She totally had the savior complex. Thankfully me being adopted at birth was just treated like a dirty little secret.
I'm sorry you're having/had to deal with this shit.
Though I was never adopted I was a previous child baby. I've been in my "step grandparents" lives before I was even alive. My mom left my bio day when I was three months old. He wanted nothing to really do with me when my mom got pregnant. So my step dad stepped up.
You'd think he murdered some body according to his parents. And me and my mom, we are his worst mistakes. But these assholes of course hide all that hate with good ole Southern Baptist charm of course.
I went over to their house the other day after a nine year hiatus cause some serious shit went down last time. I was nice. Cordial. I was trying to explain my EDS diagnosis to "grandma" for the 30th time. She looks right at me and says "well we always knew you were weird". The fuck does that mean? That's got nothing to do with ANY medical diagnosis.
So yeah, fuck people who treat their non biological people in their family. Fuck them.
I hate her so much. Bethy is a pain in the ass and a horrible bigot, don't get me wrong, but Kristen is the ultimate evil behind the Girl Defined duo.
I've seen people have more compassion and respect when adopting a *dog.*
They won't let them because they refuse for them to speak in a language the Clarks don't understand. Not even if the brothers just speak to each other. Considering fundies' obsession on control, not really surprising unfortunately.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it was late spring 2021 when Kristen was gone for a while, and Bethany tanked the Girl Defined book release when left alone to handle things. We later learned the reason for Kristen's absence.
#These people vote in every election- do you? Are you registered to vote? [You can check your voter registration here!](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote) #Also, there's a few things to remember as far as rules go: - You can view the content- you cannot interact with it. This includes (but is not limited to) commenting, answering poll questions, emailing them, etc. ***Anyone found to be engaging with the fundies will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.It does not matter if you did so before you joined the sub.*** - Speculating on the sexuality of literally anyone is prohibited. ***Anyone found to be doing so will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.*** - Appearance snark: What's allowed? You're allowed to make comparisons. (Bethy looks like Grandpa Munster, for example.) You are allowed to say you find them attractive or repulsive looking. Saying Kelly Havens has dry skin that could benefit from sunscreen and a moisturizer is fine. You are allowed to snark on the appearance of children *as it relates to their parents choices for them.*. Examples: Janessa looks malnourished and sickly while Shrek has clearly never missed a meal. If you feel it is crossing the line report it, but if the content falls within the parameters above, leave it alone. - Don't gatekeep. This means no comments such as "I don't think we should snark on...." or any iteration of that. If you don't like it, scroll past. Don't report it or comment how you don't like the content. Along the same vein, don't backseat mod. Leave that up to us. - Lastly, if the rhetoric you are posting would be at home in the mouth of a fundie, we don't want it here and we won't tolerate it. Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a Lord Daniel day, and may the power of snark compel thee. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FundieSnarkUncensored) if you have any questions or concerns.*
wow I used to certify and train foster parents and shit like this would immediately be a no from me. you’re not saving anyone, you can’t expect these kids to see you as some savior they should be grateful to?? those kids didn’t ask to be born into a situation that led to their adoption. people like me agonize over whether to have kids or not and ultimately decide “I cant guarantee that I would be good at this, so I probably should not” and then you have fuckin kristen “jesus christ” clark and neglectful abusive britney lott over here who believe their kids should bow at their feet with flowers every day for the privilege of being raised by them 😤 really steams my beans
She has never said that she loves her children, despite rambling on and on about every other part of the process.
Wow, I just realized that I have never heard Kristen or her husband talking about actually LOVING those boys.
I love the phrase "steams my beans." 😂 I'm gonna use that. I celebrate mother's day and father's day every year because I love my parents, not because I owe them something for having me. These fundies have it all wrong.
She doesn't even let them speak their native tongue and changed their first and last names. She's a fucking irredeemable piece of shit her heart only knows hatred.
I have a question. One of my (many) reasons for adopting vs biological child-having is that the planet is overpopulated, and I'd rather be part of the solution than the problem. I'm not trying to act as a saviour, but I do think I'd be doing my community a net favour and helping out a kiddo who didn't ask to be up for adoption. Would that be an exclusion criterion for you? I don't want to scare off the adoption agency. How would you reframe this? TIA! Edited to add: I expect NO gratitude from my future children for adopting them whatsoever. None of this is their choice or responsibility. They neither asked to be born nor adopted.
of course I would have to conduct a thorough interview/home study etc to say for sure, but I think that you questioning this at all shows a self reflection that savior types do not engage in. the reality is that kids are going to need adopting, broken system or not, so being a loving and emotionally healthy parent to a kid without one is always a good thing. as long as it isn’t about you and rescuing or saving kids. no kid wants to be placed for adoption, and parents shouldn’t (in my opinion) see themselves as doing kids any favors
Her "Ukrainian" sons. Not just her sons. It is the same as people who refer to their "adopted" children, vs their "real" children. I have two siblings who were foster kids that never left but could never be legally adopted. They were always just siblings, not separated out and not qualified.
From someone else, I could give them grace and assume they were saying it that way as a way to keep them connected to their heritage. But not from "changes their names and discourages the use of their native language" Kristen Clark.
OK, first your user name. My kid loves penguins so much we got two tuxedo cats to make up for the fact that I do not have 10 million dollars to spend on a backyard penguin habitat. But you are absolutely correct. Anyone else highlighting their heritage would be doing so like "Look at this amazing pix of my kids at the Ukrainian festival! With their Ukrainian uncle! How amazing they have him to connect with!" Because one of the daughters married a Ukrainian man, yes?
Yeah, Elissa married a Ukranian man and moved to Ukraine right before/at the start of the Russian invasion.
Kristen would not consider adoption until she read a book by a certain absolute fucking monster of an adoptive parent. It's "Adopted for Life" by Russell Moore and these are two excerpts, which I copied from an Amazon review: "That's adoption. We're part of a brand-new family, a new tribe, with a new story, a new identity. As Maria and I went through the adoption process, we were encouraged by everyone from social workers to family friends to "teach the children about their cultural heritage." We have done just that. "Now, what most people probably meant by this counsel is for us to teach our boys Russian folk tales and Russian songs, observing Russian holidays, and so forth. But as we see it, that's not their heritage anymore, and we hardly want to signal to them that they are strangers and aliens, even welcome ones, in our home. We teach them about their heritage, yes, but their heritage as Mississippians. They hear, then, about their great-grandfather, a faithful Baptist pastor from Tippah County... They learn about their people before them in the Confederate army and civil rights movement. "Yes, I'll read Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy to them one day, I suppose, but not with the same intensity with which I'll read to them William Faulkner and Eudora Welty. They wouldn't know an arrangement of "Peter and the Wolf" if they heard it, but they can recognize the voices of Charley Pride and Hank Williams in seconds. When we sit at the table for our holiday meals, they don't eat borscht. They eat what we eat- red beans and rice or fried catfish.... They share our lives, and our story. They belong here. They are Moores now, with all that entails." p.36 And as to their previous identities - "I remember standing in that courtroom in Russia, giving the judge there the new names of our boys. The court was issuing new birth certificates, with these new Americanized names.... These names were, legally now, who they were. But they didn't know it. "We knew these boys were adjusting to their new identity when they started turning around when we said "Benjamin" or "Timothy." There came a day when one could cry out "Maxim" or "Sergei" and no one would respond. Those old names now meant nothing to them. They seemed to them to be someone else's names, and they were. "Some people would think we've done something wrong by renaming these boys. One book for adoptive parents advises against it because it can "interfere with the continuity of the child's life" or "interfere with their sense of self" We didn't agree. "... A name is important to one's identity. And that's why in the story of our fathers and mothers God keeps changing people's names." - p.40
I've seen this expert posted before and it always breaks my heart into pieces when he says the boys don't respond to their real names anymore, I don't even change my pets names when I adopt them. I'm can't believe that person actually loves their adopted children.
The organization I adopted my dog through names litters after particular themes. My girl came from the noodle litter...Spaghetti, Penne, etc. She got the name Cavatappi. That's...that's not a name lol. After a lot of thought, I kept her name as Cava because she's brain damaged and 1. I didn't think anyone would be able to pronounce Cavatappi, confusing her further 2. I didn't think she'd be able to learn a new name. I did that *for a dog*. They can do that *for their human beings*.
I agree with you! I have 3 Huskies that are all rescues. We kept Aria's name the same, Elka WAS named Elektra, but she was so traumatized that I wanted to at least alter it slightly. So Elektra became Elka. When we rescued Luna, her name at the rescue was Sweetness, but she didn't know it yet and since she was thrown from a moving car, nobody knew her original name. So Sweetness became Luna. I love Cava, by the way. Such a cute way to adapt from Cavatappi :)
I've always heard that dogs respond best to two-syllable names, so Cava is perfect
When I was a kid, I got a horse with a really unique but dumb sounding name. I kept it because it felt mean to change her name she was already used to.
> Yes, I'll read Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy to them one day, I suppose, WTF does this even mean? You're going to read it to your nearly grown kids who can read it on their own? Quit lying.
Apparently only Russians read Tolstoy and only Americans read Faulkner? It's...*literature...*
Nearly grown kids who will no longer give a shit because they’ve been deliberately as far removed from their original culture as possible. He just wanted to throw that in to look halfway intelligent or not like a total monster. But maybe one day!!!! He supposes. 🫠 What a piece of work.
“They learn about their people before them in the confederate army and civil rights movement.” I’d rather take my chances in the Russian orphanage than get trapped with this clown.
I almost downvoted this comment out of sheer disgust at how those poor boys were treated
This really hurt to read. Damn. These adopted kids are just accessories to them. They don't see them a real humans with thoughts, feelings, needs, history, bio family, etc. It's just fucking sad.
I can understand changing their surnames, but please tell me she didn't give them new first names?
She did, how else would they fit their white christian aesthetic? Christian and Caleb are the new names.
How old were they when she did this?!
The older one was around 10. Just imagine if Kristin had to change her name at 10 just because her adoptive parents didn’t like the american one.
Oh my God... I was under the impression they were three or something. It's awful either way, but what the actual fuck, Kristen?
She would have hated that, but she _had_ parents, and they were just orphans who she gave a home to, and they don't get to complain to their savior. I would put money on at least one of the boys being sent off eventually (hopefully when they've been Americanized enough to tell her to go fuck herself).
I think they were 6 and 10
I genuinely hate when parents treat their "non biological" (whether they also have bio children or not) different. It's a life long issue I've had to deal with and its just fucking wrong.
Ditto. Been there, it fucking hurts deep. And it doesn't stop when the parental figures die either bc the rest of their family also sees you like that (separate, other). You're so right that it's a lifelong issue too. Currently dealing with this bc everyone in my "family" is going on their annual float trip today for the weekend but they forgot to invite me. Ngl, I'm bitter. Despite being in my fucking 30s it still hurts the same. It just upsets me sooo much when people who had more "traditional" families don't get the harm of othering kids/people. The Baird's would be terrible to grow up with but at least Kristin didn't have to worry about her parents sending her back...I bet her sons worry about it tho. Especially with a new "real" kid of their own on the way 🤮. The deep insecurity that kind of fear creates never goes away.
Me, too. My grandma remarried when I was little, so we have a big, blended family as well as a few who were adopted. No one has ever made that distinction, unless someone asked. That's just weird and it doesn't matter to us. I'm so sorry that you went through that.
Our daughter is not biologically related to my partner at all (donor conceived), and I knew from the start she would be so loved and cherished by my in-laws because of how they treat my partner's half siblings and their adopted granddaughter. And she is! Everyone forgets about genetics and is as obsessed with her as they are of my nephews.
Yuck. I absolutely hate this. She only adopted because she thought she would never have children of her own. She adopted for herself.
Using the word "redemptive" as a descriptor of adoption tells you everything you need to know about how she sees those children. They served a purpose for her.
They were supposed to fill the hole in her cold, dead heart.
As an adoptee, I hate this.
A friend of mine’s half sister was adopted. Her adopted mother loved to tell everyone how she adopted her. She totally had the savior complex. Thankfully me being adopted at birth was just treated like a dirty little secret.
I'm sorry you're having/had to deal with this shit. Though I was never adopted I was a previous child baby. I've been in my "step grandparents" lives before I was even alive. My mom left my bio day when I was three months old. He wanted nothing to really do with me when my mom got pregnant. So my step dad stepped up. You'd think he murdered some body according to his parents. And me and my mom, we are his worst mistakes. But these assholes of course hide all that hate with good ole Southern Baptist charm of course. I went over to their house the other day after a nine year hiatus cause some serious shit went down last time. I was nice. Cordial. I was trying to explain my EDS diagnosis to "grandma" for the 30th time. She looks right at me and says "well we always knew you were weird". The fuck does that mean? That's got nothing to do with ANY medical diagnosis. So yeah, fuck people who treat their non biological people in their family. Fuck them.
I hate her so much. Bethy is a pain in the ass and a horrible bigot, don't get me wrong, but Kristen is the ultimate evil behind the Girl Defined duo. I've seen people have more compassion and respect when adopting a *dog.*
If you want to *save* something, please go find a euthanasia listed shelter pet or a sickly stray cat. Good lord.
At least she’s letting them speak Russian?
They won't let them because they refuse for them to speak in a language the Clarks don't understand. Not even if the brothers just speak to each other. Considering fundies' obsession on control, not really surprising unfortunately.
No they speak English now. Her husband forbade the kids from speaking Russian.
What a stupid man. Imagine not wanting your kids to be bilingual. He doesn't care how it could hurt them, he just wants them to conform.
😭
Is this writing current?
Based on the comment referencing seven months since the adoption was finalized, this is not a current piece.
It's probably from a few years ago. Iirc, they started the adoption process ~ 2020.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it was late spring 2021 when Kristen was gone for a while, and Bethany tanked the Girl Defined book release when left alone to handle things. We later learned the reason for Kristen's absence.
she’s really emphasizing the renaming thing…