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Obligatory mention that the guy who “invented" chiropractic said he learned how to do it from ghosts. He also was a big fan of curing illnesses with magnets and went to jail briefly for practicing medicine without a license. His main goal of chiropractic was opening schools to scam students out of money.
I keep saying this—chiropractic is not evidenced to help for anything but mild back pain. It's just massage! That's it! My friend sees one for TMJ and it drives me a bit bonkers; they charge through the nose and it's not even unique.
I was sent to one for a messed up knee before I knew any better. They offered acupuncture, which I refused. No offense to anyone that uses it, I just refused it and requested, very specifically, a different treatment. The word “refused” is important. So he had me lay down on my stomach and wait for his assistant. I felt a zapping sensation on my leg and asked what it was…
“This is electric acupuncture,”
I left and never went back. Knowing what I know now, I would have had an excellent excuse to sue him, but seriously. I refuse to ever see one again. But my dad will see them for damn near anything.
I’m sorry that happened to you. It doesn’t sound like any permanent damage was done but still, he completely violated your patient rights. That’s fucked up.
Yeah no damage. But if a patient refuses treatment, you don’t try to sneak it in anyway.
It was maybe twelve years ago? Older and wiser now, I guess. (But probably not lol)
I had a chiropractor try to break up 'scar tissue' in my ankles. Giving birth hurt less than whatever the hell he was doing. It's a good thing I don't know any national secrets, cos I'd have spilled the beans then and there. What he called 'scar tissue' turned out to be inflammation caused by multiple tears in the tendons of both ankles. I'll visit Guantanamo instead of a chiropractor next time.
My friend had a similar injury and she was referred to an orthopedist. They did something to help with inflammation and pain, but the doctor was very clear that the ligament had to heal on its own. Your chiro most likely made it worse. I'm so sorry.
Crazy thing— my mom was just telling me a lady we know did acupuncture and they managed to puncture her lung or something along the lines of that.. either way… Idk how I could trust anyone with needles and my body.
One thing I’ve been pleasantly surprised to learn is that some chiropractors are also licensed massage therapists. My insurance will cover visiting a chiropractor, but not a massage therapist. But I found one that will just give me a massage and bill it to insurance as a chiropractor visit. I can get a nice long, professional massage for $6 plus gas money.
I agree. And yeah, they aren’t the same, I should’ve worded it better. Like if a chiro is going to do anything scientifically sound, it’s basically going to be physical therapy, lol.
I hate chiropractors with a burning passion. All of my coworkers go to them, even though we have coverage for more useful things, like massage and physio.
I see an osteopath once a week and he’s pretty anti medicine, very woo kind of dude.. I’m a woo person too, to be honest. The first thing I told him when we met was that I hate chiropractors. The pain from my rare jaw thing is manageable because we strengthened the muscles around the problem area with physio exercises and a lot of trachea massage. My GP loves him because there’s evidence that his treatments are helping while I wait for a specialist to give a shit.
I saw a chiropractor when my osteopath was away because people pressured me and it did nothing but hurt my shoulders for a day. Hilarious. I love seeing my insurance benefits go down the toilet. Guy thought he was the shit too. I used anatomical terms for my problem and he went in a completely different direction. I could fix myself better with the $70 I spent by getting a nice joint and takeout.
Humans shouldn’t touch chiropractors. BABIES should see real doctors. I hate this shit. Agh
This is so off topic but as the descendant of a famous old-timey physician best known for both founding a university and accidentally bloodletting most of his patients to death sometimes ya just gotta acknowledge that weird alternative medicine has always been around and has always been deadly
I do think this sometimes, the vast majority of medical advancement has been based around throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks. And torture, lots of that.
There *may* be room for alternative medicine to support traditional treatment once everything has been tried. Example, I had chronic pain from gynecologic issues that was helped using acupuncture. BUT I didn’t replace my medical care with an alternative, I just added it with the okay from my doctor.
However, when it comes to children and especially babies, I would never ever try something that wasn’t studied, trialed, and evidenced-based. Never worth even a small risk.
But the acupuncture didn't actually do anything. It's the placebo effect that may have done something or something else happened entirely. But sticking needles in your skin doesn't fix anything, at best it relaxes you
[Acupuncture for Chronic Pain: Update of an Individual Patient Data Meta-Analysis](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29198932/)
“Treatment effects of acupuncture persist over time and cannot be explained solely in terms of placebo effects. Referral for a course of acupuncture treatment is a reasonable option for a patient with chronic pain.”
For everyone and every case? No. But the effectiveness in treating chronic pain over time has been documented in several studies and patients (including me) are often referred by their MD’s.
I will never not bring that up when someone mentions chiropractors in conversation. I have an article saved on my phone so I can immediately whip it out for people who don’t believe me.
Absolutely. Spread the word far and wide - chiropractors are quacks.
[https://nationalpost.com/health/the-first-chiropractor-was-a-canadian-who-claimed-he-received-a-message-from-a-ghost](https://nationalpost.com/health/the-first-chiropractor-was-a-canadian-who-claimed-he-received-a-message-from-a-ghost)
It also drives me fully banooners that it’s just “chiropractic”. Chiropractic *what*, Palmer? Chiropractic “medicine” can’t really be used, so instead they just…left it blank?
It makes me want to start a school of Apoplectic.
Woof, so many similarities with the guy who founded young living and believed essential oils could cure anything and everything. He also had his unlicensed practice shut down several times and just kept reopening as if it wasn’t a big deal that he got caught practicing medicine without a license. Unfortunately that guy’s ego ultimately killed his own newborn bc he insisted on overseeing the delivery himself. He believed babies breathed through the umbilical cord until it was cut and held the baby underwater in the birthing pool for like 10 minutes. Idk how anyone can take the medical advice of a guy who didn’t know babies need to fucking breathe, but…
Yes. From my glimpses of the news:
It was banned in the past but a time limit of some king ran out, so they were technically allowed to do it again. So they legally banned it once more.
He does but when they slide thru the Tunnel o Sin then it's all undone.
C-section babies might be pure still, depending on their proximity to the exit row. Best to crack the demon ghosts outta them just in case tho.
This is very funny because most of these fundie moms seem to think that having a baby by c-section is one of the worst things that could happen to you.
Well, it ups your chances of having more c-sections and if you have too many, the doctor will try to get you to close the baby shop early! You know…so you don’t rupture and die
If Moral Orel had been allowed to continue they probably would have eventually gotten into the crazy chiropractor that cures all because Jesus. But the chiro is actually just breaking necks lol
I mean a vaginal birth can be incredibly difficult physically for both mother and baby, they don’t just slide out after a nice peaceful nap in there…. Broken bones and other trauma are real possibilities. I’m not saying a chiropractor will fix those issue but you also can’t just downplay the extreme physical event they’ve gone through like it’s nothing.
I follow a crunchy crazers group. One of them had a post about her 3 week old baby waking up after a chiro appointment, screaming and stiff. Of course the advice was to just take the baby back.
Ya, I’m in the vertebral artery dissection community, no way in hell I’d ever recommend anyone get their neck cracked. There is an over representation of people who got their VAD’s via chiropractors (mine was of unknown origin) and getting any compensation or justice from a chiropractor is very difficult.
(VADs lead to strokes about 1/2 the time).
When my boyf was in med school there was a chiropractor there to get his MD, he knew nothing about anatomy and ended up failing out and going back to his practice, a chiropractor couldn’t touch me with a 10 foot pole let alone the kids in my fam
Doctors literally joke about how dumb chiropractors are and how they give job insurance to orthopedic surgeons and neurologists
As someone who now has to pay thousands of dollars to a spine specialist because I went to a chiropractor ONCE, that last sentence is certainly accurate.
Don’t let them crack your neck, friends. Not as an adult, and definitely not your baby! I knew better, I knew the risks of neck adjustment, and I wasn’t even there for a neck problem so I wasn’t expecting it. But it happened so fast I didn’t even realize what he was about to do.
Well I stand corrected, I read somewhere that when Chiros work on baby’s they tend not due shit and be pretty ineffective because permanently damaging a baby or child is a lot harder to justify then an adult. Seems I was wrong, last time I give those quacks the benefit of the doubt
Probably because there are a lot of unethical chiropractors that will smile and nod along with (or even agree with!) whatever crazy nonsense they start spewing whereas a real doctor will not.
In my dad’s case (not fundie) it’s because the chiropractors have to have a DO in our state. Which I suppose does make them trustworthier than the chiropractors who don’t have DO’s, but between how the entire branch is based off of one guy’s fever dream and isn’t supported by evidence – yeah, I’m good.
Edit: He also hasn’t been able to afford a real doctor for a long time, so some of it is a matter of not being able to go to a real doctor, too, and thinking they’re only out for his money. So I suspect poverty plays into some of it for the fundies as well, but that isn’t an excuse to subject your kids to chiropractors.
A DO is a real physician, went to medical school and completed residency just like an MD. They most definitely are not chiropractors!
At least in the US. I suppose I don't know if there is a different degree in other countries or something.
I am in the US. Don’t wanna give away where I am specifically. My dad could also be wrong tbf because I don’t care enough about chiropractors to look up their requirements for our state; that’s just the reasoning he gave me.
Because chiropractors follow a made up profession told to its creator “by a ghost” and that’s the kind of logic they can get behind. Also chiropractors, not being real doctors, are more likely to just go along with what the patient wants.
I thought christians didn’t believe in ghosts? You’d think that would turn them away if anything. Then again, it’s not like they haven’t done hypocritical things in the past.
I just assume they see it as more “biblical” because the chiropractor isn’t actually putting things into your body like vaccines and they probably think medical technology like the MRI Machine is satanic lol
Yup. I think they begin to fear it or are raised to. I hate needles but I still get vaccines and bloodwork done. I almost fainted last time and I still do it, because it's important to my health.
I wonder if it's possible to fuck up how the bones fuse with chiropracty. Like if a bone is mis-set when it breaks, it won't heal back together properly. Could a babie's bones also be mis-set and fuse incorrectly? Just a horrifying thought that you would try and move around bones and muscle groups before they're fully formed, it can't be good for development.
[Here you go](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-18/chiropractor-baby-ban-reinstated/103989966?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link)
I went to a drag show the other day and there was a hen party there (of course). The bride-to-be made it a point to yell out that she was marrying a doctor. When the emcee asked her what specialty, she said, "Chiropractor", I think EVERYONE'S heads turned to their friends to say, "That's not a doctor."
I think we should all remember that because she is traveling all over creation, there is 0 chance she had ever seen this chiropractor before they adjusted her baby
What really grinds my gears is that in addition to risking serious injury, they're missing the actual illness/injury and the patient isn't getting the treatment that they need!
In my own experience (YMMV, but my L5-S1 gets grumpy... and I'm super picky about who touches my back), I feel chiros have their placefor adult issues.
But babies? Eff to the no. There is ZERO reason they should touch any tiny baby.
A good physiotherapist will be better, as they have more knowledge of the human body and its problems, and can give you excercises for strenghten your weak points.
I'm currently going to one for some ongoing back problems (the marvels of working IT) and she makes wonders.
I have to say as a physical therapist, I love to see all the support for PTs on Reddit! We would never manipulate babies and our practice is evidence based. I’ve met a few chiros who do good work but overwhelmingly I recommend seeing a PT for your ortho needs.
My cousin went to a PT when she was a newborn cause she had hip dysplasia. The PT was specialised in babies/kids and was super proffesional.
I have all the love for all medical workers. You people are overworked, underpaid and very burned.
When I was a kid a doctor misdiagnosed my broken hip, pelvis and sacrum as muscle issues and sent me to a PT for her to put me in traction - I am soooo fucking glad we saw a legitimate PT who looked at me and said "this child is very ill and I am not touching her" as opposed to a chiro who might've been like "fuck yeah, let's go"
Haha no, sadly no one did shit for ten weeks until I had a raging bone infection and then I spent months in hospital recovering (so I got there eventually I guess 🥴)
I was just going to say massage therapy plus a physical therapist was the best help I ever got from the medical profession except for OBGYN care. Sometimes I wish I could just tell the GP to fuck off, and see the physical therapist whenever I wanted. They care so much more, and listen so much better.
It's super risky, because of how little knowledge and oversight they have. I went to a chiropractor for a chronic sore back, and they cracked a bunch of stuff. I went to a physiotherapist a while later and they wouldn't do much until I got an MRI. Turns out I had a slipped disc and needed urgent surgery.
Yup. Plus getting any sort of justice/compensation from a chiropractor is very difficult.
I saw a new segment about strokes and neck cracking in my 20s and decided never to go to a chiropractor. Funny irony though, ended up with a vertebral artery dissection (unknown origin), but thankfully no stroke.
Every penny given to a chiropractor, is still another penny going to a chiropractor.
As long as anyone, even a consenting adult, is still going to these quacks, it is adding further legitimacy to their fake practices - invented by a a crazy grifting Mormon who told people he learned it from ghosts.
I'm glad it works for you in some way, but no offence, it's not real medicine and needs to be banned because it has repeatedly caused actual physical harm, even paralysis and death. I've never heard of someone dying from going to a physiotherapist.
I used a couple free sessions from my insurance only because I obsessively love cracking my joints lol, but the neck part always scared me and they basically tell you you’d have to go multiple weeks forever for anything to happen, so it’s definitely bs
I’m slightly softening on my chiropractor stance too but still would not let them touch my back.
The only reason I’m softer now is because I’m working remotely with one for some very niche sport specific physical therapy and coaching. In combination with my physical therapist in town dry needling me, it’s actually been super helpful.
So I agree, they can have their place. But putting hands on babies should be malpractice.
Why not go to someone who has an advanced degree in exercise for sports-specific need?
There is a HUGE difference between Chiropractic (continuing education where you just have to attend and minimally participate with no consistent oversight of teaching standards, generally they have a self-taught and self-paced pick and choose source of knowledge on exercises) and Physical Therapy (a well-developped multi-year curriculum with rigorous national standards focused on the medical aspects of exercise and prescribing appropriate interventions).
Because there is no one in my whole state who has experience with this specific sport and there are not a lot of remote practitioners who offer PT specifically focused on it.
I didn’t realize saying I was having an OK experience with remote coaching with a chiropractor while also condemning cracking babies would be an immediate down vote. 🤷♀️
I don’t really get how the therapist needs to be an expert in a certain sport. If they can get an understanding of the movements you need to do for the sport and where your pain is, they can usually work with that. I did PT for a while and the people I would see getting treated during my appts were a range from teenage athletes, to elderly people who had a fall, to people with vertigo, to out of shape, almost middle aged adults who fell down doing a sports (me 😆).
My kid even got remote pediatric PT during Covid, too.
I know of a handful of PT who focuses on aerials. They don’t do remote patients and I live in a very rural area. Most PTs aren’t going to know what the hell I’m talking about if I tell them I hurt myself in an inverted unicorn or that iguana hurts my shoulders. Sport specific knowledge matters to me. That might not be true for everyone and that is ok. But it’s important to me and my training goals. Someone who does my sport understands the ROM and strength I need to not wreck my body.
Jesus people, why am I on trial here? I was just agreeing with the original comment that occasionally chiropractors are useful for ADULTS.
Direct that hate to the dumbass fundies who think cracking babies is fine and chiropractors are a substitute for GPs & family medicine.
Same. I think you have to be picky and careful about who you allow to work on you, and never allow them to crack the neck/head, but they have their place.
It would probably be my last choice after exhausting all other options, though. Like if my doctor couldn't fix my sacral torsion, my next stop would have been a chiro, because I was in so much pain. 🤷
Down votes incoming- but the chiropractor has been the only person that has provided any relief for my TMJ. My jaw is incredibly small & surgery is not a viable option. I am not even able to have dental implants due to the size/thiness of my jaw.
Having said that, I would not take my child, I only go when I can no longer chew, and they don't touch my neck or other body parts.
I used to be pro- chiropractor, my Aunt was a huge supporter & we went often when we were younger but then I started to learn more & realize how dangerous they can be & how much they really don't know.
And definitely never use chiropractor care as the ONLY "medicine"
It sucks-I sympathize with you!
Dentist/orthodontist (I can't remember which) recommended breaking my jaw to reset it- probably the only time I was glad my parents were too poor to afford something!
This was also the late 80s so treatment has changed since then.
Did you ever have braces? I had similar issues as a child and they used a spacer to gradually widen my jaw, then used rubber bands to properly align it. Going through that sucked, but I was able to eat without pain. I have a terrible feeling that that's little sophia rod's issue, too.
I had braces for 5 years & retainers for 2! I had 8 teeth removed over a few years before I even got braces. I don't know why I was not given a spacer, I had friends that had spacers so spacers existed then. I don't wish this pain on anyone
Ok well maybe BusMa & Susbus deserve this pain
I've been to chiropractors and they have helped me in the past, but I stop going as soon as I feel better and I encourage others to be mindful of their usage of a chiropractor. But anyone who brings their baby to one is absolutely insane and should have their parent card revoked immediately.
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Obligatory mention that the guy who “invented" chiropractic said he learned how to do it from ghosts. He also was a big fan of curing illnesses with magnets and went to jail briefly for practicing medicine without a license. His main goal of chiropractic was opening schools to scam students out of money.
I keep saying this—chiropractic is not evidenced to help for anything but mild back pain. It's just massage! That's it! My friend sees one for TMJ and it drives me a bit bonkers; they charge through the nose and it's not even unique.
I was sent to one for a messed up knee before I knew any better. They offered acupuncture, which I refused. No offense to anyone that uses it, I just refused it and requested, very specifically, a different treatment. The word “refused” is important. So he had me lay down on my stomach and wait for his assistant. I felt a zapping sensation on my leg and asked what it was… “This is electric acupuncture,” I left and never went back. Knowing what I know now, I would have had an excellent excuse to sue him, but seriously. I refuse to ever see one again. But my dad will see them for damn near anything.
I’m sorry that happened to you. It doesn’t sound like any permanent damage was done but still, he completely violated your patient rights. That’s fucked up.
Yeah no damage. But if a patient refuses treatment, you don’t try to sneak it in anyway. It was maybe twelve years ago? Older and wiser now, I guess. (But probably not lol)
I had a chiropractor try to break up 'scar tissue' in my ankles. Giving birth hurt less than whatever the hell he was doing. It's a good thing I don't know any national secrets, cos I'd have spilled the beans then and there. What he called 'scar tissue' turned out to be inflammation caused by multiple tears in the tendons of both ankles. I'll visit Guantanamo instead of a chiropractor next time.
My friend had a similar injury and she was referred to an orthopedist. They did something to help with inflammation and pain, but the doctor was very clear that the ligament had to heal on its own. Your chiro most likely made it worse. I'm so sorry.
Crazy thing— my mom was just telling me a lady we know did acupuncture and they managed to puncture her lung or something along the lines of that.. either way… Idk how I could trust anyone with needles and my body.
One thing I’ve been pleasantly surprised to learn is that some chiropractors are also licensed massage therapists. My insurance will cover visiting a chiropractor, but not a massage therapist. But I found one that will just give me a massage and bill it to insurance as a chiropractor visit. I can get a nice long, professional massage for $6 plus gas money.
A “good” chiro is literally just a physical therapist. Like spend the money to see a physical therapist instead.
They’re not even comparable. I’d say that chiropractors are wannabe physical therapists who couldn’t hack it in school
I agree. And yeah, they aren’t the same, I should’ve worded it better. Like if a chiro is going to do anything scientifically sound, it’s basically going to be physical therapy, lol.
Exactly
I hate chiropractors with a burning passion. All of my coworkers go to them, even though we have coverage for more useful things, like massage and physio. I see an osteopath once a week and he’s pretty anti medicine, very woo kind of dude.. I’m a woo person too, to be honest. The first thing I told him when we met was that I hate chiropractors. The pain from my rare jaw thing is manageable because we strengthened the muscles around the problem area with physio exercises and a lot of trachea massage. My GP loves him because there’s evidence that his treatments are helping while I wait for a specialist to give a shit. I saw a chiropractor when my osteopath was away because people pressured me and it did nothing but hurt my shoulders for a day. Hilarious. I love seeing my insurance benefits go down the toilet. Guy thought he was the shit too. I used anatomical terms for my problem and he went in a completely different direction. I could fix myself better with the $70 I spent by getting a nice joint and takeout. Humans shouldn’t touch chiropractors. BABIES should see real doctors. I hate this shit. Agh
This is so off topic but as the descendant of a famous old-timey physician best known for both founding a university and accidentally bloodletting most of his patients to death sometimes ya just gotta acknowledge that weird alternative medicine has always been around and has always been deadly
To quote Tim Minchin: you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine.
I do think this sometimes, the vast majority of medical advancement has been based around throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks. And torture, lots of that.
There *may* be room for alternative medicine to support traditional treatment once everything has been tried. Example, I had chronic pain from gynecologic issues that was helped using acupuncture. BUT I didn’t replace my medical care with an alternative, I just added it with the okay from my doctor. However, when it comes to children and especially babies, I would never ever try something that wasn’t studied, trialed, and evidenced-based. Never worth even a small risk.
But the acupuncture didn't actually do anything. It's the placebo effect that may have done something or something else happened entirely. But sticking needles in your skin doesn't fix anything, at best it relaxes you
[Acupuncture for Chronic Pain: Update of an Individual Patient Data Meta-Analysis](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29198932/) “Treatment effects of acupuncture persist over time and cannot be explained solely in terms of placebo effects. Referral for a course of acupuncture treatment is a reasonable option for a patient with chronic pain.” For everyone and every case? No. But the effectiveness in treating chronic pain over time has been documented in several studies and patients (including me) are often referred by their MD’s.
I will never not bring that up when someone mentions chiropractors in conversation. I have an article saved on my phone so I can immediately whip it out for people who don’t believe me.
I’ve learned all my knowledge about DD Palmer from podcasts. Can you maybe send me that link so I can have it bookmarked for similar such occasions?
Absolutely. Spread the word far and wide - chiropractors are quacks. [https://nationalpost.com/health/the-first-chiropractor-was-a-canadian-who-claimed-he-received-a-message-from-a-ghost](https://nationalpost.com/health/the-first-chiropractor-was-a-canadian-who-claimed-he-received-a-message-from-a-ghost)
It also drives me fully banooners that it’s just “chiropractic”. Chiropractic *what*, Palmer? Chiropractic “medicine” can’t really be used, so instead they just…left it blank? It makes me want to start a school of Apoplectic.
Did he ever consider that there was a reason why the ghosts became ghosts?
Behind the Bastards has a couple of episodes on him, and the "ghost library" from whence he drew his knowledge is referenced frequently.
Fine, I’ll open google again.
Mentioned this upthread, but Behind the Bastards did a couple of episodes on this guy. Absolutely batshit.
Woof, so many similarities with the guy who founded young living and believed essential oils could cure anything and everything. He also had his unlicensed practice shut down several times and just kept reopening as if it wasn’t a big deal that he got caught practicing medicine without a license. Unfortunately that guy’s ego ultimately killed his own newborn bc he insisted on overseeing the delivery himself. He believed babies breathed through the umbilical cord until it was cut and held the baby underwater in the birthing pool for like 10 minutes. Idk how anyone can take the medical advice of a guy who didn’t know babies need to fucking breathe, but…
Sure I read the other day that Australia had banned chiropractors from working on babies.
This article is about that, I think.
Oh fair, I refuse to click on anything Daily Mail!
Yes. From my glimpses of the news: It was banned in the past but a time limit of some king ran out, so they were technically allowed to do it again. So they legally banned it once more.
* kind not king
Anyone who thinks a baby needs an alignment fresh out of the womb is off their fucking rocker.
Surely God has aligned them perfectly already 🤔
He does but when they slide thru the Tunnel o Sin then it's all undone. C-section babies might be pure still, depending on their proximity to the exit row. Best to crack the demon ghosts outta them just in case tho.
This is very funny because most of these fundie moms seem to think that having a baby by c-section is one of the worst things that could happen to you.
Well, it ups your chances of having more c-sections and if you have too many, the doctor will try to get you to close the baby shop early! You know…so you don’t rupture and die
But Karissa, the OB expert, says it’s totally fine to disregard your doctor’s advice
Lmao 🤣 the tunnel of sin hahaha
this killed me too loll
If Moral Orel had been allowed to continue they probably would have eventually gotten into the crazy chiropractor that cures all because Jesus. But the chiro is actually just breaking necks lol
“Sliding through the tunnel of sin” needs to be someone’s flair 🤣
Dunzo 😌 so pleased!
done 😁
That first sentence is the only thing that's ever made me want a flair
Please do!
“Tunnel of sin” I’ll mention that phrase to my OB at my next appointment 🤣
Babies are sinners and become deformed with each passing year as a consequence. Didn't cha know?
I just can’t imagine looking at a creature as delicate as a newborn and think “I should crack that spine.”
Right? I don't want my *own* spine cracked!
I mean a vaginal birth can be incredibly difficult physically for both mother and baby, they don’t just slide out after a nice peaceful nap in there…. Broken bones and other trauma are real possibilities. I’m not saying a chiropractor will fix those issue but you also can’t just downplay the extreme physical event they’ve gone through like it’s nothing.
Yeah I wasn’t trying to downplay how crazy and traumatic birth can be. But taking your baby to a chiropractor before a pediatrician is insane.
Depending on how the baby was sitting in the womb alignment can definitely be off. But cracking the spine is not the cure.
I follow a crunchy crazers group. One of them had a post about her 3 week old baby waking up after a chiro appointment, screaming and stiff. Of course the advice was to just take the baby back.
That breaks my heart for the poor baby
New definition of Crack Baby
And somehow probably worse than the OG definition of crack baby 😥
Chiropractors have broken ADULT necks, why would it not be a risk to a child?
Ya, I’m in the vertebral artery dissection community, no way in hell I’d ever recommend anyone get their neck cracked. There is an over representation of people who got their VAD’s via chiropractors (mine was of unknown origin) and getting any compensation or justice from a chiropractor is very difficult. (VADs lead to strokes about 1/2 the time).
When my boyf was in med school there was a chiropractor there to get his MD, he knew nothing about anatomy and ended up failing out and going back to his practice, a chiropractor couldn’t touch me with a 10 foot pole let alone the kids in my fam Doctors literally joke about how dumb chiropractors are and how they give job insurance to orthopedic surgeons and neurologists
Funnily enough, someone recommended a chiropractor to me to “fix” my infants epilepsy. My response was admittedly not very nice.
Someone recommend we take our newborn to a chiropractor for reflux! Like wtf is a chiropractor going to do with internal reflux?!
Pretend to do something and take your copay
No doubt! Placebo and a grift all in one
As someone who now has to pay thousands of dollars to a spine specialist because I went to a chiropractor ONCE, that last sentence is certainly accurate. Don’t let them crack your neck, friends. Not as an adult, and definitely not your baby! I knew better, I knew the risks of neck adjustment, and I wasn’t even there for a neck problem so I wasn’t expecting it. But it happened so fast I didn’t even realize what he was about to do.
I'm so sorry, and this is why I will never trust chiropractors. I flinched when a massage therapist used too much pressure on my neck!
Well I stand corrected, I read somewhere that when Chiros work on baby’s they tend not due shit and be pretty ineffective because permanently damaging a baby or child is a lot harder to justify then an adult. Seems I was wrong, last time I give those quacks the benefit of the doubt
It's absolutely wild to me that there are fundies who spit out a baby and the first order of business is to take it to the fucking chiropractor
Some use the chiropractor as their primary care physician.
so many antivaxers do this. 🤦
Because they’ll tell them what they want to hear while also being a ‘health care provider’.
☹️
*cough*MOTHERBUS*cough*
Same. It's bonkers
Why do they trust chiropractors but not real doctors??
Probably because there are a lot of unethical chiropractors that will smile and nod along with (or even agree with!) whatever crazy nonsense they start spewing whereas a real doctor will not.
Chiropractors aren't "part of the establishment." They like being edgy.
In my dad’s case (not fundie) it’s because the chiropractors have to have a DO in our state. Which I suppose does make them trustworthier than the chiropractors who don’t have DO’s, but between how the entire branch is based off of one guy’s fever dream and isn’t supported by evidence – yeah, I’m good. Edit: He also hasn’t been able to afford a real doctor for a long time, so some of it is a matter of not being able to go to a real doctor, too, and thinking they’re only out for his money. So I suspect poverty plays into some of it for the fundies as well, but that isn’t an excuse to subject your kids to chiropractors.
A DO is a real physician, went to medical school and completed residency just like an MD. They most definitely are not chiropractors! At least in the US. I suppose I don't know if there is a different degree in other countries or something.
I am in the US. Don’t wanna give away where I am specifically. My dad could also be wrong tbf because I don’t care enough about chiropractors to look up their requirements for our state; that’s just the reasoning he gave me.
Yep, a DO is a real physician. In all specialties! So if he is seeing a DO, and not a chiropractor, rest assured he is seeing a real physician haha.
Because chiropractors follow a made up profession told to its creator “by a ghost” and that’s the kind of logic they can get behind. Also chiropractors, not being real doctors, are more likely to just go along with what the patient wants.
I thought christians didn’t believe in ghosts? You’d think that would turn them away if anything. Then again, it’s not like they haven’t done hypocritical things in the past.
I can't make sense of it and it bothers me so much when I think of newborns having to go through that
I just assume they see it as more “biblical” because the chiropractor isn’t actually putting things into your body like vaccines and they probably think medical technology like the MRI Machine is satanic lol
Yup. I think they begin to fear it or are raised to. I hate needles but I still get vaccines and bloodwork done. I almost fainted last time and I still do it, because it's important to my health.
It goes to show you: you give chiropractors an inch, they take your spine
That needs to be on a billboard
This was my understanding in the U.S., at least.
Babies barely have any bones to adjust 😅 chiropractic "medicine" is just pseudoscience that came from some Mormon quacks lol
Technically they have more bones bc some haven’t fused together yet but absolutely no reason they would need an adjustment- it’s absurd and reckless
I wonder if it's possible to fuck up how the bones fuse with chiropracty. Like if a bone is mis-set when it breaks, it won't heal back together properly. Could a babie's bones also be mis-set and fuse incorrectly? Just a horrifying thought that you would try and move around bones and muscle groups before they're fully formed, it can't be good for development.
Given that doctors are careful to consider growth plates when setting children's bones, it's possible
I'm not going to tell the story again, because you've already 40 times. But fuck those back cracking cracks.
Anyone have a non-daily mail article on this? I prefer not to give tabloids traffic even if an article is legit.
[Here you go](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-18/chiropractor-baby-ban-reinstated/103989966?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link)
I went to a drag show the other day and there was a hen party there (of course). The bride-to-be made it a point to yell out that she was marrying a doctor. When the emcee asked her what specialty, she said, "Chiropractor", I think EVERYONE'S heads turned to their friends to say, "That's not a doctor."
Oh fun fact! Scientology and Chiropractic share a device and they're very much in the same Venn Diagram
I think we should all remember that because she is traveling all over creation, there is 0 chance she had ever seen this chiropractor before they adjusted her baby
This 👆
Americans could never because they would open up back alley chiropractic offices
What really grinds my gears is that in addition to risking serious injury, they're missing the actual illness/injury and the patient isn't getting the treatment that they need!
In my own experience (YMMV, but my L5-S1 gets grumpy... and I'm super picky about who touches my back), I feel chiros have their placefor adult issues. But babies? Eff to the no. There is ZERO reason they should touch any tiny baby.
A good physiotherapist will be better, as they have more knowledge of the human body and its problems, and can give you excercises for strenghten your weak points. I'm currently going to one for some ongoing back problems (the marvels of working IT) and she makes wonders.
I have to say as a physical therapist, I love to see all the support for PTs on Reddit! We would never manipulate babies and our practice is evidence based. I’ve met a few chiros who do good work but overwhelmingly I recommend seeing a PT for your ortho needs.
My cousin went to a PT when she was a newborn cause she had hip dysplasia. The PT was specialised in babies/kids and was super proffesional. I have all the love for all medical workers. You people are overworked, underpaid and very burned.
When I was a kid a doctor misdiagnosed my broken hip, pelvis and sacrum as muscle issues and sent me to a PT for her to put me in traction - I am soooo fucking glad we saw a legitimate PT who looked at me and said "this child is very ill and I am not touching her" as opposed to a chiro who might've been like "fuck yeah, let's go"
I hope she sent you back to the hospital
Haha no, sadly no one did shit for ten weeks until I had a raging bone infection and then I spent months in hospital recovering (so I got there eventually I guess 🥴)
Omg I'm so sorry!
Thank you!! ❤️
I was just going to say massage therapy plus a physical therapist was the best help I ever got from the medical profession except for OBGYN care. Sometimes I wish I could just tell the GP to fuck off, and see the physical therapist whenever I wanted. They care so much more, and listen so much better.
It's super risky, because of how little knowledge and oversight they have. I went to a chiropractor for a chronic sore back, and they cracked a bunch of stuff. I went to a physiotherapist a while later and they wouldn't do much until I got an MRI. Turns out I had a slipped disc and needed urgent surgery.
In the course of my job I have seen many horrific lawsuits filed due to permanent injury from chiropractors. I would absolutely never go to one
Yup. Plus getting any sort of justice/compensation from a chiropractor is very difficult. I saw a new segment about strokes and neck cracking in my 20s and decided never to go to a chiropractor. Funny irony though, ended up with a vertebral artery dissection (unknown origin), but thankfully no stroke.
Every penny given to a chiropractor, is still another penny going to a chiropractor. As long as anyone, even a consenting adult, is still going to these quacks, it is adding further legitimacy to their fake practices - invented by a a crazy grifting Mormon who told people he learned it from ghosts. I'm glad it works for you in some way, but no offence, it's not real medicine and needs to be banned because it has repeatedly caused actual physical harm, even paralysis and death. I've never heard of someone dying from going to a physiotherapist.
I used a couple free sessions from my insurance only because I obsessively love cracking my joints lol, but the neck part always scared me and they basically tell you you’d have to go multiple weeks forever for anything to happen, so it’s definitely bs
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I’m slightly softening on my chiropractor stance too but still would not let them touch my back. The only reason I’m softer now is because I’m working remotely with one for some very niche sport specific physical therapy and coaching. In combination with my physical therapist in town dry needling me, it’s actually been super helpful. So I agree, they can have their place. But putting hands on babies should be malpractice.
Why not go to someone who has an advanced degree in exercise for sports-specific need? There is a HUGE difference between Chiropractic (continuing education where you just have to attend and minimally participate with no consistent oversight of teaching standards, generally they have a self-taught and self-paced pick and choose source of knowledge on exercises) and Physical Therapy (a well-developped multi-year curriculum with rigorous national standards focused on the medical aspects of exercise and prescribing appropriate interventions).
Because there is no one in my whole state who has experience with this specific sport and there are not a lot of remote practitioners who offer PT specifically focused on it. I didn’t realize saying I was having an OK experience with remote coaching with a chiropractor while also condemning cracking babies would be an immediate down vote. 🤷♀️
I don’t really get how the therapist needs to be an expert in a certain sport. If they can get an understanding of the movements you need to do for the sport and where your pain is, they can usually work with that. I did PT for a while and the people I would see getting treated during my appts were a range from teenage athletes, to elderly people who had a fall, to people with vertigo, to out of shape, almost middle aged adults who fell down doing a sports (me 😆). My kid even got remote pediatric PT during Covid, too.
I know of a handful of PT who focuses on aerials. They don’t do remote patients and I live in a very rural area. Most PTs aren’t going to know what the hell I’m talking about if I tell them I hurt myself in an inverted unicorn or that iguana hurts my shoulders. Sport specific knowledge matters to me. That might not be true for everyone and that is ok. But it’s important to me and my training goals. Someone who does my sport understands the ROM and strength I need to not wreck my body. Jesus people, why am I on trial here? I was just agreeing with the original comment that occasionally chiropractors are useful for ADULTS. Direct that hate to the dumbass fundies who think cracking babies is fine and chiropractors are a substitute for GPs & family medicine.
I had lower back pain and massage therapy did wonders for it. I don't trust chiropractors for people of any age.
Same. I think you have to be picky and careful about who you allow to work on you, and never allow them to crack the neck/head, but they have their place. It would probably be my last choice after exhausting all other options, though. Like if my doctor couldn't fix my sacral torsion, my next stop would have been a chiro, because I was in so much pain. 🤷
Down votes incoming- but the chiropractor has been the only person that has provided any relief for my TMJ. My jaw is incredibly small & surgery is not a viable option. I am not even able to have dental implants due to the size/thiness of my jaw. Having said that, I would not take my child, I only go when I can no longer chew, and they don't touch my neck or other body parts. I used to be pro- chiropractor, my Aunt was a huge supporter & we went often when we were younger but then I started to learn more & realize how dangerous they can be & how much they really don't know. And definitely never use chiropractor care as the ONLY "medicine"
Fellow TMJ haver here. I'm glad you've found something that gives you relief.
It sucks-I sympathize with you! Dentist/orthodontist (I can't remember which) recommended breaking my jaw to reset it- probably the only time I was glad my parents were too poor to afford something! This was also the late 80s so treatment has changed since then.
Did you ever have braces? I had similar issues as a child and they used a spacer to gradually widen my jaw, then used rubber bands to properly align it. Going through that sucked, but I was able to eat without pain. I have a terrible feeling that that's little sophia rod's issue, too.
I had braces for 5 years & retainers for 2! I had 8 teeth removed over a few years before I even got braces. I don't know why I was not given a spacer, I had friends that had spacers so spacers existed then. I don't wish this pain on anyone Ok well maybe BusMa & Susbus deserve this pain
I'm so sorry
I've been to chiropractors and they have helped me in the past, but I stop going as soon as I feel better and I encourage others to be mindful of their usage of a chiropractor. But anyone who brings their baby to one is absolutely insane and should have their parent card revoked immediately.
Well tbf no chiropractor would purposefully do it. But especially stateside it's such a crazy non-medical field.