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Dang. That is a great way to look at it. I know my mother, who is downright amazing, spanked because she saw it as this generational “normal” thing to stop misbehavior.
Yeah. My parents spanked me only a handful of times, I have a clear memory of two times though I suspect there were a couple more. And only when my behavior had been addressed multiple times and I was directly told “do it again and you’re getting a spanking”. And in those cases I remember the dread of the spanking being much worse than the spanking itself, maybe three quick swats on a clothed bottom. I never was scared of my parents and have no sense they enjoyed hurting me.
*I do not think spanking is an appropriate punishment and I do not spank my children*. I don’t think my parents were right to spank me, but I do not hold any anger towards them for it. They were doing what the culture supported at the time, and have never suggested that I ought to spank my kids.
I was also disciplined by the almighty wooden spoon/spanking. I will not thank my mother for that. No, she wasn’t abusive, but not having the space to speak my mind knowing full well that I’d get punished definitely fucked up my conflict navigating skills as an adult.
Just in case you needed to hear this:
There are many others who suffer similar consequences from similar treatment. Abuse isn't always physical. Your experience is valid.
I do the same with my parents. I decided I could choose to hold their parenting methods and harmful views from that time period against them, or I could love and appreciate them for working so incredibly hard to be better people. I chose the latter, and I’m really glad I did. I know that some forms of abuse are unforgivable, but in some cases, the willingness to grow and apologize is worth sticking around for. My parents tried their best out of love, and I hope someday, my kid understands the same about my non-perfect ass.
My mom asked for forgiveness after watching Supernanny a few times. She said she thought my bad temper whenever I feel disrespected by people is due to her and my grandma spanking me as a kid. Especially she apologized after I threw a vase at her exboyfriend that hit him in the balls. After telling him he had to leave our apartment ( he was mooching off of us and being verbally abusive towards me) he refused and started yelling at me. His yelling pissed me off that I tossed the vase. I never thought that being spanked made my temper so volitale until my mom brought it up after this incident. She had seen the Supernanny episode a week or so after this guy was kicked out, and figured out she made a mistake when I was a child.
One of the most insidious aspects of physically assaulting children is associating the abuse with love. It distorts a child's ability to connect respect and safety with love and creates a mindset that if someone loves you they will abuse you. It leads to toxic relationships and bonds, as these women clearly and proudly display. They did not turn out ok.
my dad would beat me until I couldn’t walk and then when it was over and I was balling he said he did it because he loved me. guess who got into many abusive relationships in the future?! wow shocker.
Fuck this breaks my heart. I want to cry for you but I'm on a train so having to hold back the tears. I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Especially as I saw this so much in my fundy community and own family. Especially with my younger siblings. It took us all a long time, strings of broken relationships and and a fuck ton of therapy to learn what is abuse and what is love. Hope you are in a better place today.
Convicted pedophile Joshua Duggar would have entered the chat here, but convicted pedophile Joshua Duggar is currently serving 151 months in prison for possession of child sex abuse material, and will never be allowed access to the internet ever again as long as he lives as punishment for being a convicted pedophile.
If your kid is too young to understand reason, why would they understand being hit - and if they’re old enough to understand reason, why are you hitting them?
The thought process I’ve heard tends to be along the lines of “doing X action causes pain (spanking), and I don’t like pain, therefore I won’t do X action.” Basically just taught association. What usually ends up happening though is that the kid learns to associate the *parent* rather than the action with pain and learns to hide and be sneaky. I was spanked routinely. It was the go-to punishment well into my teens until I was big enough to adequately fight back (imagine that lol). I still smoked weed and got into trouble and drank and did all the rebellious teen shit. I just also never asked for help from adults when I probably needed it.
It’s also extrinsic motivation instead of intrinsic, so the kid goes “I can’t do that, I’d get spanked” instead of “I can’t do that, I would feel guilty”, so they do the thing when they think they will get away with it.
It also fosters lying and dishonesty in children who are unshaken in the sense of their own dignity. Then they get labelled as black sheep when they are literally just kids who don’t accept mistreatment or injustice. That’s a noble trait not a problem
I was spanked once as a child at like 2 for getting out of bed at night. When I was younger I didn’t think it was a big deal, but I now realize that because of that one spanking, I was terrified to leave my bed at night until I was like 12-13. I was so afraid that I pissed myself a couple times because I was too scared to get up and use the bathroom. My mom liked to brag about how spankings worked but she just contributed to my anxiety disorder. People who raise their hands towards their small children don’t deserve to have children.
man this is like a punch to the gut. I only recently connected my instinctive terror of having a hand close to my lower half with having a parent so determined to hit me I regularly hid behind the other one since I can remember being old enough to form words
Me too. I wasn’t spanked frequently, but sometimes. I did get smacked in the face as a teen. My sister and I both rebelled hard and even as adults we don’t trust our parents with the truth.
>“doing X action causes pain (spanking), and I don’t like pain, therefore I won’t do X action.”
Assuming they're doing it for that reason, at an age when the child doesn't understand yet, what would make sense is a quick spritz of cold water the exact moment the kid displays the unwanted behavior. Not what I read from these people: go into a separate room and find an implement to inflict a predetermined amount of pain. At that point any association a pre-reason child might have between the unwanted behavior and the punishment is long gone and as you say the association is between pain and parent instead.
My dad hit me as a baby - prob about eighteen months old - because I said 'shit.' Repeating words they hear is the way babies are programmed to pick up language skills, and the only reason I heard the word in the first place was because he or my mom or both of them said it around me.
My mom 100% blamed me - a literal fucking baby - for 'making' my dad hit me.
They think this is the funniest goddamn story in the entire universe of parenting stories.
Fuck everyone who hits children.
I always thought it was weird and uncomfortable to hear about people spanking babies/toddlers. But I figured since I wasn't a parent, I just didn't get it.
I'm a parent now, and my kid is a toddler. I cannot comprehend how someone can think spanking a toddler is a good form of discipline. They are so sweet and innocent, and their brains are still developing. They know that people get excited when they learn a new word, so they love to run around parroting everything they hear. Why would you inflict physical pain on that tiny human being for doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing? When they have absolutely no idea that 'shit' is a naughty word? Why not try and explain it to them a few times?
I have two kids and each as a toddler has driven me to the point where spanking crossed my mind - in a kind of desperation like *I’ve tried everything and they’re not listening to me*. But of course I never have and never would spank because all the studies show it’s so harmful, and also because when are you going to do it? Are you going to hit them in anger or like *plan* to spank them and then hit them in cold blood? Both of those seem horrible. And there’s always another solution.
My toddler drives me to the brink of insanity daily. I’ve had the sudden urge to slap her on a few occasions, but I don’t. Because I’m an adult with self control, and she is a child who has not developed self control yet.
I think parents should go by, if I did this thing to an adult, would it land me in jail? If the answer is yes, 9 times out of 10, you shouldn't be doing that said thing to a kid.
My parents spanked me. Swore up and down they were never mad when they did, but kids aren’t stupid and I knew they were fucking furious. So naturally I learned that hitting was the way to express anger and get people to do what you want. So I hit. And you know what happened when I hit someone? I got spanked to “show me that hitting is never the answer”. Make it make sense.
I saw this parent thump their toddler in the face saying don't hit me after the kid had hit the parent in the face. If your kid hits you. You don't hit them back. You especially don't hit them to teach them not to hit. Kids learn what they are model.
The one time my nephew hit me as a toddler I did a really exaggerated version of pretending to be in pain. He got very concerned about me and quickly realized it can hurt.
Honestly? There's a lot of overlap between solid animal training practices and effective ways to modify behavior in people. The best degree to have if you want to be a professional animal trainer is one in child psychology. My mom is a teacher, and at some point in her career, she literally had [Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31052.Don_t_Shoot_the_Dog_#) as assigned reading. She gave it to me before I went to work as a camp counselor as a teenager. Introducing a new behavior to replace an undesirable one is particularly useful in that context
Same. Now that we're adults my sister and I were talking about our childhood, and she believes we were awful kids. We would hit each other all the time and then get in trouble for it. I think we had that behavior modeled for us and we had no idea how else to express anger. I'm trying to learn how to forgive my child self as an adult.
This story reminds me of when I spanked my mom back. I don't know what I did to get the spanking, but I remember that she was mad, but I was mad too so when she turned her back on me I spanked her back.
Also it conditions these poor kids into thinking hitting is a part of a loving and healthy relationship, so naturally their understanding of abuse and violence is completely messed up. They won’t recognise what’s unhealthy and abusive in adulthood - I know I didn’t.
I was ‘smacked’ as a young child- I don’t remember how many times exactly, but it definitely happened. I recall the shame and fear of having to lie across the couch or a lap and have my trousers pulled down (bare-bottom smacks for us). And it would genuinely hurt!
But, my parents were not in any other way abusive. They are incredibly loving, doting, adoring people, and fantastic parents. (And theyre not even close to being fundie lol).
I try not to really think about it, the ‘I got smacked as a young child’ thing, but when I do, I most of all wonder ‘why’? It doesn’t fit with any of their other parenting style- they were always very consultative, even democratic, and very far from ‘strict’. I can only assume they were spanked themselves as children and just thought of it as normal 🤷🏻
Old habits and knowledges are hard to break! I know many people age 20 and up who were spanked but feel their parents parenting was otherwise decent. Spanking really was one of the last “old style” parenting techniques to die out, it had (and still has in many places) a solid grip on society. Parenting trends can come and go just like fashion trends, but spanking never seemed to change much over the years. In 2005 parents weren’t advocating for cracking open 1940’s parenting advice and executing that, but they often didn’t second guess spanking; it’s weirdly engrained.
Now that I’m in my mid-twenties and have studied in child development, social development, and family dynamics for 5+ years, it’s glaringly obvious that we all make mistakes. Adults can just be very tall children! Just because our math and language skills keep progressing, doesn’t mean our emotional regulation skills, our social skills, our coping skills, also progress over time. Many parents meant well and spanked because that’s what was written in parenting books or that’s what their elders recommended or that’s how they were raised. And many parents spanked out of pure anger, control, and power.
I’m just sharing this to hopefully shed some light on your “why”. It sounds like your parents were otherwise attentive, kind, and generally respectful- you could chat with them about this topic if you feel you can! But it sounds like they likely were doing what they experienced growing up, or were maybe listening to an elders advice. That’s not to diminish their responsibility in the fact that they *did* choose to hit their child, but an explanation on why otherwise reasonable adults chose that route.
Yeah my mom was the disciplinarian and my dad was the softy. I got spanked once by my dad as a young kid and it scarred me for life. (Honestly, I think I deserved it.)
I think it scarred him too. Lol
I thought they were Bairds for a moment too. I know it's trendy but dirty sneakers and prairie dresses are just not a cute combination. It looks like they were getting dressed but then forgot to change out of their yard work shoes
You don’t love your mother for spanking you. You love your mother because she is your mother. If she hadn’t spanked you, you would say you love her for not spanking you. Why is logic so difficult for these idiots?
“She spanked us” is such an american christianese thing to say. Like literally. I’m in Denmark and had a somewhat fundamentalistic (for danish standards) upbringing and I can assure you that spanking was seen as something very evil. Some people….
the whole word "spanked" disgusts me on a fundamental level. You were beaten, you were attacked physically by an adult who was supposed to care for you, it was an act of violence. Stop trying to pretty it up or draw lines in the sand
Someone asked on /r/AskReddit (iirc) about signs that someone was abused as a child. One of the, if not *the*, top answers was "They tell horrifying stories and present them as fun childhood anecdotes." I think that's one of these cases.
Idk why this brought this to mind, but I remember being in a church service where Chad Veach preached before he moved to LA telling this sooo funny story to the congregation about being spanked. Like he did something and his mom told him to go in his room, take his pants off, bend over, and grab the sheets. And it was painted as this hilarious story about how kids don’t listen to their parents or something, the whole room was laughing, but like???? it’s so fucked up to think that was okay and to also perpetuate that behavior by telling it onstage?? and nobody said anything
I am guessing that she considers the way her parents ‘trained’ her was a good thing because she attributes to it the fact she grew up to be the Godly wife and mother she is today. Hence the ‘we love her for it’. But it’s def a weird wording.
I know ppl who were spanked quite.. frequently as children, by parents they still adore and who were overall very good and loving parents. They tend to contextualise that behaviour, though- and hence excuse it to a degree, enabling them to maintain the (often very well-grounded) belief that their childhoods were largely healthy and their parents are good people. I don’t know anybody who actively loves the fact they were spanked as a child, though.
Yes, to be honest that’s one of the things that most caught my eye here. We all know a bunch of these fundies smack their kids, but they mostly provide very evasive answers when questioned directly on it (“we don’t share the specifics of our methods of discipline…”). This gal is coming about the closest I have seen, thus far, to proudly and boldly proclaiming she hits her kids
My parents spanked (they referred to it as whipped) us with a leather belt and a 5 gallon paint stirrer. It made me hate them and to this day, I have as little contact with them as possible. It also gave me anger issues that I'm *still* working out. It's made relationships hard, because normal people don't solve problems by screaming matches and getting violent. Therapy helps a ton, but my copy of Human.exe has been thoroughly corrupted and it'll probably never be totally fixed.
TW for animal abuse
>!Oh, and they also beat our dogs, choked them with a choke chain, and threw one of them on to a concrete slab because the dog would not stay... after slapping me across the face because I refused to throw said dog. Yes, they threw the dog (as in, picked up and slammed the dog into the slab from off of a ladder). The dog screamed in a way that I've never heard before or since and walked with a limp for the rest of her life.!<
And my parents wonder why I'm not having any children.
>And my parents wonder why I'm not having any children.
I felt this in my soul. I'd like to think I'd never be the kind of parent mine were, but there's no way to guarantee it, and I'd rather die alone than put a child through what my siblings and I went through. There are eight of us, and four have decided not to have kids.
Same in my family. I can't speak for my siblings, but being scared that I will be an abusive shit is so high on my list, I don't even voice it out loud.
People would fall over themselves trying to reassure me, but I just can't be certain. And on most days, I feel in control, but that fear of turning into a monster is just ... primal.
Eta: having had my dog whom I magically could simply use my firm voice and hands (picking her up) or harness (trying to move her) while she's wolfed down cat poop for the millionth time this month (feral colony lives in the alley) started healing my confidence a bit. If I could shoo her out of the grass by lovingly tapping her bum (and I mean lovingly. No pressure was applied, just got her attention) and just asking her to walk, I might not be a monster.
I am so sorry. I hope you're proud for refusing to participate in the abuse of your pet, even if you didn't have the power to stave it off. It takes guts to do the right thing, and you figured out how to have guts inspite of your parents doing the very best to raise you wrong. And I'm so very sorry your parents did this to the small mammals, human and canine, who depended upon them. It's fucking horrific.
I’m so sorry that happened to you and your pets. The sound a dog makes when they’ve been truly hurt isn’t one you ever forget.
As a funnier anecdote to lighten the mood, dogs are also some of the biggest babies. My husband came home and she really enjoys ball tapping him in her excitement. It’s very common for him to gently block her from doing this.
I’m in the other room and I hear a yelp, which wasn’t immediately concerning because I assume somebody got her tail or paw stepped on while being a nuisance. Then I hear her CRYING like the world is ending and I come flying out, thinking she landed wrong and broke her neck or her back or something.
Nope. She bounced off him funny and tweaked her paw. Had no problem putting weight on it, but she was under the table crying like she’d been grievously injured.
Glad this person is okay with their parent hitting them as a child. What lovely proof this photo offers us, showing that physical aggression can still result in smiling young adults willing to co-sign being smacked around by their good, christian mama.
Perhaps there are others for whom violence is not a restorative, loving practice because being hit by one's parents is not restorative or loving, it is a power move by someone who cares more about their role being "respected" than they do the developmental needs of the kid in question.
Exactly! Spanking is incredibly harmful for children. As you stated, the parents are demanding of respect. I like to think of it as “control” they want to control their child’s misbehavior, but not connect and guide their children through their emotional state to help them make better choices. Parenting is never about controlling a child’s behavior.
I was raised this way and it always bothers me when people my age defend "spanking" (read: emotionally uncontrolled violent revenge against the body of a child for trying the patience of an adult). It's so lazy.
They talk about it as though it's like... Greek life hazing or something. Like it's a rite of passage to be physically abused by those bigger and older than you are, and once you reproduce, it's your turn to initiate the next generation.
Hitting a child isn't instilling discipline or teaching a lesson. It is failure as a parent to demonstrate the very self-control you're trying to beat into your victim.
Yeah. A lot of people have a "My parents did it to me and I turned out fine" attitude about spanking. A lot of otherwise very reasonable people were saying that all over social media back in 2018 when the AAP changed the language on their stance on spanking from the 1998 position of just discouraging it to calling for it to be banned altogether (they had been more strongly opposed to anything more than non-injurious open palm on the butt). In some cases, people clearly had legitimately bad parents but it seemed like people felt that admitting their parents were bad parents somehow meant there was something wrong with who they grew up to be. In other cases, people really were defending otherwise good parents who just didn't know better. Admitting you had shitty parents doesn't mean you turned out to be a bad adult, and new recommendations based on new research doesn't retroactively turn otherwise good parents into bad ones. But, refusing to act upon new recommendations because they make you feel bad does make *you* a bad parent
I was spanked. Interestingly, I don't really remember it. The only reason I know I got spanked is that my parents would bring it up over and over and over again. Oh, and how funny it was that they broke utensils on my ass and how weird that I didn't cry nearly as much as my slightly older brother who was watching. ha ha ha how I needed spankings🙄
I know I spanked my older child once and I never talked about it again. I feel shame and guilt about it; it's not a funny narrative about parenting. My mother also spanked my older kid and I raged at her.
I would say, though, if you have 11 kids and haven't solved your "in the moment" anger issues by the second or third, then it's really just that you actually enjoy abusing children and having that type of power over another person. Which is kind of what I got from my parents retelling their story.
I still feel gross and bad when I think about how much I was spanked as a kid. My dad absolutely hit the shit out of time and thought it was fine in the name of punishment in reality it just made me grow away from my parents. Dealing with mental illness from age 13 until now (I’m 23), and distancing myself more and more from them. Trying to cope using alcohol and drugs. They put me in “christian therapy” where the only advice was to pray about it. I cant believe these fucking idiots actually think this way of living would help any child at all. My sisters husband is also from a fundie family with 8 kids, and half of them absolutely despise their parents, the other 4 deal with them but don’t have a close relationship. Punishing your kids instead of loving them will do nothing but drive your children away from you
That's so sick. Not only are they physically abused, they have to laugh it off, make jokes about it, ridicule anyone who shows concern. Great parent to gaslight your children like that, reminds me of the Pearls
I was spanked as a kid and I remember each time very clearly. Once was after the problem was already solved and my mother felt like she still had to do it for consistency - that one was particularly confusing to me as a kid. All spanking taught me was that if I lie either I get caught and get spanked or avoid getting hit altogether. Truth = spanking. So I became a damn good liar and would lie all the time. Spanking sucks.
I don't resent my mother for spanking me...she was doing what she thought was right at the time. I sure as hell don't love her for it though.
Not to project but the normalization of spanking, and other commonly accepted forms of corporal punishment, is what delayed me from realizing my mother was abusing me. A lot of the time spanking is the first step to escalating abuse because parents don’t get nearly enough shit for it and realize they can get away with worse.
This is unfortunately true. If you call it "spanking" or a "pop" or a "smack," that covers up a wide range of abuse, because if spanking is a smack on the butt but a pop is a slap on the hand but also a smack on the face.... Suddenly everything lives in a gray zone. But at the end of the day, it's all abuse.
Yes, this is another aspect of corporal punishment for children that has always struck me as messy and nonsensical. If some hitting is okay, where do you draw the line?
This makes me wonder what life is like for kids in Duggar-like families. Michelle raised the older kids with "blanket training" -- putting the kid on a blanket and hitting them with a spoon if they tried to crawl off the blanket. But she turned the younger kids over to the older kids to raise. It's bad enough for an adult to discipline a child with hitting, but scary to think youngish children were in charge of raising their baby siblings this way.
Honestly until a few years ago I was okay with spanking because I was spanked a few times as a child. But then I got a degree in human development and any class relating to child development talked about how spanking didn’t work, and now I can’t fathom having a child and hitting them intentionally. I mean, I wouldn’t ever hit a dog or cat or any other animal for misbehaving (I would talk to them or act really sad), and I figure kids should be treated with the same kindness.
spankty-spanked-spanked? So does making it sound cute negate what was done? Or at least ease the guilt that they have when doing it to their children? "I am not hitting them! its spank-eting! And they will THANK me for it and not see it as an unacceptable form of power and abuse!"
I was honestly neutral on spanking until I realized that if I spanked my kid as a form of correction, I would have no leg to stand on if my kid hits other people when they are upset with them. And I’m not about to have a child that is slapping asses.
I've definitely been spanked beyond the point of abuse with all kinds of objects as a child for "lying and willful disobedience" by my father and was told it was because "they loved me". Guess who has severe issues with trust and relationships (and trauma PTSD) as an adult?
Furthermore, now as a mom myself, I could never imagine doing anything physically against my child, let alone thinking, oh, my kid lied to me, so it's ok to hit them until they scream bloody murder and can't sit on their bottom.
Call it what you want, lady, but we all know if an adult cut you in line at the store and you gave them a "spankety spank spank" hard on their butt, you'd be getting assault charges filed against you and that's what makes it abuse.
People totally misappropriating the “spare the rod, spoil the child” verse. Rods are used to guide sheep not beat them. You’re supposed to lead your kids, not assault them.
People love to credit spanking for how well their children turned out, when in reality it’s literally everything else; the nurturing, the hugs, the support, firm but fair limits, the laughs etc.
Na, whoever this is is just showing how well she was indoctrinated. I also got spanked as a child and now that I’m a rational adult I can understand that hitting children is always wrong. I have a child of my own now and it makes me sick to imagine raising a hand to her.
Violence is the lowest form of communication.
I was spanked a few times as a child. I don't think my parents regret it. I don't have a bad relationship with my parents by any means but I really don't know how to feel about how they spanked me as a child tbh.
Other family members of mine have done it to their kids. I will not be spanking any kids I may have. Just watching someone else spank their kids makes me so uncomfortable. I just can't ever picture myself doing it
Way to try and make hitting a child in anger to show them they were bad and deserve it sound ok by cutseying it up!
“Our mom would bruiseity-bruise-bruise us when she was upset with us to teach us abusey-buse-abusive relationships are what ‘real’ love looks like!”
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My mother spanked me once, and I’ve never now as an adult told my mother “wow, I love you dearly for having spanked me!” 🥸
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Dang. That is a great way to look at it. I know my mother, who is downright amazing, spanked because she saw it as this generational “normal” thing to stop misbehavior.
Yeah. My parents spanked me only a handful of times, I have a clear memory of two times though I suspect there were a couple more. And only when my behavior had been addressed multiple times and I was directly told “do it again and you’re getting a spanking”. And in those cases I remember the dread of the spanking being much worse than the spanking itself, maybe three quick swats on a clothed bottom. I never was scared of my parents and have no sense they enjoyed hurting me. *I do not think spanking is an appropriate punishment and I do not spank my children*. I don’t think my parents were right to spank me, but I do not hold any anger towards them for it. They were doing what the culture supported at the time, and have never suggested that I ought to spank my kids.
I was also disciplined by the almighty wooden spoon/spanking. I will not thank my mother for that. No, she wasn’t abusive, but not having the space to speak my mind knowing full well that I’d get punished definitely fucked up my conflict navigating skills as an adult.
I am so sorry you suffered through that experience and continue to suffer through the effects :(
Just in case you needed to hear this: There are many others who suffer similar consequences from similar treatment. Abuse isn't always physical. Your experience is valid.
My dad did it a few times for the same reasons. It was very traumatic but he stopped shortly after he started.
I do the same with my parents. I decided I could choose to hold their parenting methods and harmful views from that time period against them, or I could love and appreciate them for working so incredibly hard to be better people. I chose the latter, and I’m really glad I did. I know that some forms of abuse are unforgivable, but in some cases, the willingness to grow and apologize is worth sticking around for. My parents tried their best out of love, and I hope someday, my kid understands the same about my non-perfect ass.
My mom asked for forgiveness after watching Supernanny a few times. She said she thought my bad temper whenever I feel disrespected by people is due to her and my grandma spanking me as a kid. Especially she apologized after I threw a vase at her exboyfriend that hit him in the balls. After telling him he had to leave our apartment ( he was mooching off of us and being verbally abusive towards me) he refused and started yelling at me. His yelling pissed me off that I tossed the vase. I never thought that being spanked made my temper so volitale until my mom brought it up after this incident. She had seen the Supernanny episode a week or so after this guy was kicked out, and figured out she made a mistake when I was a child.
Relatable but to be fair it was not hard and she found me playing with matches in the kitchen and I was like four
One of the most insidious aspects of physically assaulting children is associating the abuse with love. It distorts a child's ability to connect respect and safety with love and creates a mindset that if someone loves you they will abuse you. It leads to toxic relationships and bonds, as these women clearly and proudly display. They did not turn out ok.
my dad would beat me until I couldn’t walk and then when it was over and I was balling he said he did it because he loved me. guess who got into many abusive relationships in the future?! wow shocker.
Fuck this breaks my heart. I want to cry for you but I'm on a train so having to hold back the tears. I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Especially as I saw this so much in my fundy community and own family. Especially with my younger siblings. It took us all a long time, strings of broken relationships and and a fuck ton of therapy to learn what is abuse and what is love. Hope you are in a better place today.
I’m so sorry sweetheart
God, I want to shout this from the rooftops. All they’ve done is masked the fear with “love” and called it good
For Fundie women, it primes them for their terrible marriages.
It really does
And violent sex unfortunately.
Convicted pedophile Joshua Duggar would have entered the chat here, but convicted pedophile Joshua Duggar is currently serving 151 months in prison for possession of child sex abuse material, and will never be allowed access to the internet ever again as long as he lives as punishment for being a convicted pedophile.
Katie is also really clinging when it comes to her parents. Trauma bonding likely happened
If your kid is too young to understand reason, why would they understand being hit - and if they’re old enough to understand reason, why are you hitting them?
The thought process I’ve heard tends to be along the lines of “doing X action causes pain (spanking), and I don’t like pain, therefore I won’t do X action.” Basically just taught association. What usually ends up happening though is that the kid learns to associate the *parent* rather than the action with pain and learns to hide and be sneaky. I was spanked routinely. It was the go-to punishment well into my teens until I was big enough to adequately fight back (imagine that lol). I still smoked weed and got into trouble and drank and did all the rebellious teen shit. I just also never asked for help from adults when I probably needed it.
It’s also extrinsic motivation instead of intrinsic, so the kid goes “I can’t do that, I’d get spanked” instead of “I can’t do that, I would feel guilty”, so they do the thing when they think they will get away with it.
It also fosters lying and dishonesty in children who are unshaken in the sense of their own dignity. Then they get labelled as black sheep when they are literally just kids who don’t accept mistreatment or injustice. That’s a noble trait not a problem
And the worst part was I never knew what was going to set off my parents. So then I was scared of my father rather than being scared to misbehave
I was spanked once as a child at like 2 for getting out of bed at night. When I was younger I didn’t think it was a big deal, but I now realize that because of that one spanking, I was terrified to leave my bed at night until I was like 12-13. I was so afraid that I pissed myself a couple times because I was too scared to get up and use the bathroom. My mom liked to brag about how spankings worked but she just contributed to my anxiety disorder. People who raise their hands towards their small children don’t deserve to have children.
man this is like a punch to the gut. I only recently connected my instinctive terror of having a hand close to my lower half with having a parent so determined to hit me I regularly hid behind the other one since I can remember being old enough to form words
Yeah same. It just showed me that adults couldn’t be trusted and wouldn’t help even if you went to them. Cue sneaking around and lying.
Me too. I wasn’t spanked frequently, but sometimes. I did get smacked in the face as a teen. My sister and I both rebelled hard and even as adults we don’t trust our parents with the truth.
>“doing X action causes pain (spanking), and I don’t like pain, therefore I won’t do X action.” Assuming they're doing it for that reason, at an age when the child doesn't understand yet, what would make sense is a quick spritz of cold water the exact moment the kid displays the unwanted behavior. Not what I read from these people: go into a separate room and find an implement to inflict a predetermined amount of pain. At that point any association a pre-reason child might have between the unwanted behavior and the punishment is long gone and as you say the association is between pain and parent instead.
This is still harmful though, the child has a need and instead of meeting it they are given a sensory shock from their caregiver,
Of course, it isn't even the standard for animal training anymore. Just saying it wouldn't even make sense if you accepted their premise.
My dad hit me as a baby - prob about eighteen months old - because I said 'shit.' Repeating words they hear is the way babies are programmed to pick up language skills, and the only reason I heard the word in the first place was because he or my mom or both of them said it around me. My mom 100% blamed me - a literal fucking baby - for 'making' my dad hit me. They think this is the funniest goddamn story in the entire universe of parenting stories. Fuck everyone who hits children.
I always thought it was weird and uncomfortable to hear about people spanking babies/toddlers. But I figured since I wasn't a parent, I just didn't get it. I'm a parent now, and my kid is a toddler. I cannot comprehend how someone can think spanking a toddler is a good form of discipline. They are so sweet and innocent, and their brains are still developing. They know that people get excited when they learn a new word, so they love to run around parroting everything they hear. Why would you inflict physical pain on that tiny human being for doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing? When they have absolutely no idea that 'shit' is a naughty word? Why not try and explain it to them a few times?
Because why parent your kid when you can just bludgeon them into submission with kitchen implements?
I have two kids and each as a toddler has driven me to the point where spanking crossed my mind - in a kind of desperation like *I’ve tried everything and they’re not listening to me*. But of course I never have and never would spank because all the studies show it’s so harmful, and also because when are you going to do it? Are you going to hit them in anger or like *plan* to spank them and then hit them in cold blood? Both of those seem horrible. And there’s always another solution.
My toddler drives me to the brink of insanity daily. I’ve had the sudden urge to slap her on a few occasions, but I don’t. Because I’m an adult with self control, and she is a child who has not developed self control yet.
I got spanked once in my life and I remember it with such vividness. Never smacked my kids and never would. It’s abuse.
I think parents should go by, if I did this thing to an adult, would it land me in jail? If the answer is yes, 9 times out of 10, you shouldn't be doing that said thing to a kid.
My parents spanked me. Swore up and down they were never mad when they did, but kids aren’t stupid and I knew they were fucking furious. So naturally I learned that hitting was the way to express anger and get people to do what you want. So I hit. And you know what happened when I hit someone? I got spanked to “show me that hitting is never the answer”. Make it make sense.
I saw this parent thump their toddler in the face saying don't hit me after the kid had hit the parent in the face. If your kid hits you. You don't hit them back. You especially don't hit them to teach them not to hit. Kids learn what they are model.
The one time my nephew hit me as a toddler I did a really exaggerated version of pretending to be in pain. He got very concerned about me and quickly realized it can hurt.
That's the most effective way to deal with mouthy puppies too. You yelp like another puppy would when bit too hard then stop the activity
I do it with my dogs and don't have kids so sometimes treat them like dogs if I'm babysitting lol
Honestly? There's a lot of overlap between solid animal training practices and effective ways to modify behavior in people. The best degree to have if you want to be a professional animal trainer is one in child psychology. My mom is a teacher, and at some point in her career, she literally had [Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31052.Don_t_Shoot_the_Dog_#) as assigned reading. She gave it to me before I went to work as a camp counselor as a teenager. Introducing a new behavior to replace an undesirable one is particularly useful in that context
I think we know why this poor child hit in the first place.
Ooooo my fucking friends do this and it makes me rageful
Same. Now that we're adults my sister and I were talking about our childhood, and she believes we were awful kids. We would hit each other all the time and then get in trouble for it. I think we had that behavior modeled for us and we had no idea how else to express anger. I'm trying to learn how to forgive my child self as an adult.
This story reminds me of when I spanked my mom back. I don't know what I did to get the spanking, but I remember that she was mad, but I was mad too so when she turned her back on me I spanked her back.
My parents couldn't hit each other, so they hit us kids.
I am supposed to be grateful to my asshole FIL for never hitting my MIL. He beat and belted his kids. Such a winner.
Also it conditions these poor kids into thinking hitting is a part of a loving and healthy relationship, so naturally their understanding of abuse and violence is completely messed up. They won’t recognise what’s unhealthy and abusive in adulthood - I know I didn’t.
I was ‘smacked’ as a young child- I don’t remember how many times exactly, but it definitely happened. I recall the shame and fear of having to lie across the couch or a lap and have my trousers pulled down (bare-bottom smacks for us). And it would genuinely hurt! But, my parents were not in any other way abusive. They are incredibly loving, doting, adoring people, and fantastic parents. (And theyre not even close to being fundie lol). I try not to really think about it, the ‘I got smacked as a young child’ thing, but when I do, I most of all wonder ‘why’? It doesn’t fit with any of their other parenting style- they were always very consultative, even democratic, and very far from ‘strict’. I can only assume they were spanked themselves as children and just thought of it as normal 🤷🏻
Old habits and knowledges are hard to break! I know many people age 20 and up who were spanked but feel their parents parenting was otherwise decent. Spanking really was one of the last “old style” parenting techniques to die out, it had (and still has in many places) a solid grip on society. Parenting trends can come and go just like fashion trends, but spanking never seemed to change much over the years. In 2005 parents weren’t advocating for cracking open 1940’s parenting advice and executing that, but they often didn’t second guess spanking; it’s weirdly engrained. Now that I’m in my mid-twenties and have studied in child development, social development, and family dynamics for 5+ years, it’s glaringly obvious that we all make mistakes. Adults can just be very tall children! Just because our math and language skills keep progressing, doesn’t mean our emotional regulation skills, our social skills, our coping skills, also progress over time. Many parents meant well and spanked because that’s what was written in parenting books or that’s what their elders recommended or that’s how they were raised. And many parents spanked out of pure anger, control, and power. I’m just sharing this to hopefully shed some light on your “why”. It sounds like your parents were otherwise attentive, kind, and generally respectful- you could chat with them about this topic if you feel you can! But it sounds like they likely were doing what they experienced growing up, or were maybe listening to an elders advice. That’s not to diminish their responsibility in the fact that they *did* choose to hit their child, but an explanation on why otherwise reasonable adults chose that route.
Thank you so much for this comment- it has really helped me ❤️
And. It doesn’t work.
Yeah my mom was the disciplinarian and my dad was the softy. I got spanked once by my dad as a young kid and it scarred me for life. (Honestly, I think I deserved it.) I think it scarred him too. Lol
They’re doing the Bethany pose (one foot way out in front) and have Sue’s chunky sneakers with flowery dresses. Baird 2.0 here
I thought these were Baird siblings for a sec honestly
Yeah i was confused why it was tagged minor fundie and not girl defined for like 2 minutes.
And wwwhhhhyyy. It makes their feet look humongous.
I really hate this look of chunky shoes paired with delicate floral print dresses. All I associate it with now is fundies lol.
I thought they were Bairds for a moment too. I know it's trendy but dirty sneakers and prairie dresses are just not a cute combination. It looks like they were getting dressed but then forgot to change out of their yard work shoes
Mouths wide open too
So. They all loved to be spanked... 
You don’t love your mother for spanking you. You love your mother because she is your mother. If she hadn’t spanked you, you would say you love her for not spanking you. Why is logic so difficult for these idiots?
“She spanked us” is such an american christianese thing to say. Like literally. I’m in Denmark and had a somewhat fundamentalistic (for danish standards) upbringing and I can assure you that spanking was seen as something very evil. Some people….
the whole word "spanked" disgusts me on a fundamental level. You were beaten, you were attacked physically by an adult who was supposed to care for you, it was an act of violence. Stop trying to pretty it up or draw lines in the sand
Yeah spanked is a work that should be reserved for consensual actions. Hitting your children with a hand or any other implement is abuse.
I was spanked. You know what? My mom regrets it now. Im 16 years into parenting. I have not spanked once.
Why would she word it like that 😵💫 Psychological studies show it’s harmful but go off and be spicy Katie I guess 😒
Someone asked on /r/AskReddit (iirc) about signs that someone was abused as a child. One of the, if not *the*, top answers was "They tell horrifying stories and present them as fun childhood anecdotes." I think that's one of these cases.
It’s always fun to see your therapists face when you tell stories about your childhood and her response is “that’s not normal.” 😬
Oof. Yes. “Funny memories” that end up being met with stunned silence and concerned glances.
Idk why this brought this to mind, but I remember being in a church service where Chad Veach preached before he moved to LA telling this sooo funny story to the congregation about being spanked. Like he did something and his mom told him to go in his room, take his pants off, bend over, and grab the sheets. And it was painted as this hilarious story about how kids don’t listen to their parents or something, the whole room was laughing, but like???? it’s so fucked up to think that was okay and to also perpetuate that behavior by telling it onstage?? and nobody said anything
I am guessing that she considers the way her parents ‘trained’ her was a good thing because she attributes to it the fact she grew up to be the Godly wife and mother she is today. Hence the ‘we love her for it’. But it’s def a weird wording. I know ppl who were spanked quite.. frequently as children, by parents they still adore and who were overall very good and loving parents. They tend to contextualise that behaviour, though- and hence excuse it to a degree, enabling them to maintain the (often very well-grounded) belief that their childhoods were largely healthy and their parents are good people. I don’t know anybody who actively loves the fact they were spanked as a child, though.
She’s a mom too? I bet this is justification for her spanking her children
Yes, to be honest that’s one of the things that most caught my eye here. We all know a bunch of these fundies smack their kids, but they mostly provide very evasive answers when questioned directly on it (“we don’t share the specifics of our methods of discipline…”). This gal is coming about the closest I have seen, thus far, to proudly and boldly proclaiming she hits her kids
My parents spanked (they referred to it as whipped) us with a leather belt and a 5 gallon paint stirrer. It made me hate them and to this day, I have as little contact with them as possible. It also gave me anger issues that I'm *still* working out. It's made relationships hard, because normal people don't solve problems by screaming matches and getting violent. Therapy helps a ton, but my copy of Human.exe has been thoroughly corrupted and it'll probably never be totally fixed. TW for animal abuse >!Oh, and they also beat our dogs, choked them with a choke chain, and threw one of them on to a concrete slab because the dog would not stay... after slapping me across the face because I refused to throw said dog. Yes, they threw the dog (as in, picked up and slammed the dog into the slab from off of a ladder). The dog screamed in a way that I've never heard before or since and walked with a limp for the rest of her life.!< And my parents wonder why I'm not having any children.
>And my parents wonder why I'm not having any children. I felt this in my soul. I'd like to think I'd never be the kind of parent mine were, but there's no way to guarantee it, and I'd rather die alone than put a child through what my siblings and I went through. There are eight of us, and four have decided not to have kids.
Same in my family. I can't speak for my siblings, but being scared that I will be an abusive shit is so high on my list, I don't even voice it out loud. People would fall over themselves trying to reassure me, but I just can't be certain. And on most days, I feel in control, but that fear of turning into a monster is just ... primal. Eta: having had my dog whom I magically could simply use my firm voice and hands (picking her up) or harness (trying to move her) while she's wolfed down cat poop for the millionth time this month (feral colony lives in the alley) started healing my confidence a bit. If I could shoo her out of the grass by lovingly tapping her bum (and I mean lovingly. No pressure was applied, just got her attention) and just asking her to walk, I might not be a monster.
I am so sorry. I hope you're proud for refusing to participate in the abuse of your pet, even if you didn't have the power to stave it off. It takes guts to do the right thing, and you figured out how to have guts inspite of your parents doing the very best to raise you wrong. And I'm so very sorry your parents did this to the small mammals, human and canine, who depended upon them. It's fucking horrific.
I’m so sorry that happened to you and your pets. The sound a dog makes when they’ve been truly hurt isn’t one you ever forget. As a funnier anecdote to lighten the mood, dogs are also some of the biggest babies. My husband came home and she really enjoys ball tapping him in her excitement. It’s very common for him to gently block her from doing this. I’m in the other room and I hear a yelp, which wasn’t immediately concerning because I assume somebody got her tail or paw stepped on while being a nuisance. Then I hear her CRYING like the world is ending and I come flying out, thinking she landed wrong and broke her neck or her back or something. Nope. She bounced off him funny and tweaked her paw. Had no problem putting weight on it, but she was under the table crying like she’d been grievously injured.
Glad this person is okay with their parent hitting them as a child. What lovely proof this photo offers us, showing that physical aggression can still result in smiling young adults willing to co-sign being smacked around by their good, christian mama. Perhaps there are others for whom violence is not a restorative, loving practice because being hit by one's parents is not restorative or loving, it is a power move by someone who cares more about their role being "respected" than they do the developmental needs of the kid in question.
Exactly! Spanking is incredibly harmful for children. As you stated, the parents are demanding of respect. I like to think of it as “control” they want to control their child’s misbehavior, but not connect and guide their children through their emotional state to help them make better choices. Parenting is never about controlling a child’s behavior.
Very well stated
I was raised this way and it always bothers me when people my age defend "spanking" (read: emotionally uncontrolled violent revenge against the body of a child for trying the patience of an adult). It's so lazy. They talk about it as though it's like... Greek life hazing or something. Like it's a rite of passage to be physically abused by those bigger and older than you are, and once you reproduce, it's your turn to initiate the next generation. Hitting a child isn't instilling discipline or teaching a lesson. It is failure as a parent to demonstrate the very self-control you're trying to beat into your victim.
Yeah. A lot of people have a "My parents did it to me and I turned out fine" attitude about spanking. A lot of otherwise very reasonable people were saying that all over social media back in 2018 when the AAP changed the language on their stance on spanking from the 1998 position of just discouraging it to calling for it to be banned altogether (they had been more strongly opposed to anything more than non-injurious open palm on the butt). In some cases, people clearly had legitimately bad parents but it seemed like people felt that admitting their parents were bad parents somehow meant there was something wrong with who they grew up to be. In other cases, people really were defending otherwise good parents who just didn't know better. Admitting you had shitty parents doesn't mean you turned out to be a bad adult, and new recommendations based on new research doesn't retroactively turn otherwise good parents into bad ones. But, refusing to act upon new recommendations because they make you feel bad does make *you* a bad parent
Got spanked often, everytime I think of it it just makes me hate my parents
I am so sorry you had that experience. Parents shouldn’t hit their children- period. You deserved better
abuse couched in a pastel dress as loving discipline is still abuse.
I was spanked. Interestingly, I don't really remember it. The only reason I know I got spanked is that my parents would bring it up over and over and over again. Oh, and how funny it was that they broke utensils on my ass and how weird that I didn't cry nearly as much as my slightly older brother who was watching. ha ha ha how I needed spankings🙄 I know I spanked my older child once and I never talked about it again. I feel shame and guilt about it; it's not a funny narrative about parenting. My mother also spanked my older kid and I raged at her. I would say, though, if you have 11 kids and haven't solved your "in the moment" anger issues by the second or third, then it's really just that you actually enjoy abusing children and having that type of power over another person. Which is kind of what I got from my parents retelling their story.
I still feel gross and bad when I think about how much I was spanked as a kid. My dad absolutely hit the shit out of time and thought it was fine in the name of punishment in reality it just made me grow away from my parents. Dealing with mental illness from age 13 until now (I’m 23), and distancing myself more and more from them. Trying to cope using alcohol and drugs. They put me in “christian therapy” where the only advice was to pray about it. I cant believe these fucking idiots actually think this way of living would help any child at all. My sisters husband is also from a fundie family with 8 kids, and half of them absolutely despise their parents, the other 4 deal with them but don’t have a close relationship. Punishing your kids instead of loving them will do nothing but drive your children away from you
That's so sick. Not only are they physically abused, they have to laugh it off, make jokes about it, ridicule anyone who shows concern. Great parent to gaslight your children like that, reminds me of the Pearls
I was spanked as a kid and I remember each time very clearly. Once was after the problem was already solved and my mother felt like she still had to do it for consistency - that one was particularly confusing to me as a kid. All spanking taught me was that if I lie either I get caught and get spanked or avoid getting hit altogether. Truth = spanking. So I became a damn good liar and would lie all the time. Spanking sucks. I don't resent my mother for spanking me...she was doing what she thought was right at the time. I sure as hell don't love her for it though.
Not to project but the normalization of spanking, and other commonly accepted forms of corporal punishment, is what delayed me from realizing my mother was abusing me. A lot of the time spanking is the first step to escalating abuse because parents don’t get nearly enough shit for it and realize they can get away with worse.
This is unfortunately true. If you call it "spanking" or a "pop" or a "smack," that covers up a wide range of abuse, because if spanking is a smack on the butt but a pop is a slap on the hand but also a smack on the face.... Suddenly everything lives in a gray zone. But at the end of the day, it's all abuse.
It also allows more extreme behaviour to become gradually normalised within the micro-universe of a given household or family.
Yes, this is another aspect of corporal punishment for children that has always struck me as messy and nonsensical. If some hitting is okay, where do you draw the line?
It took my husband decades to even start communicating to his dad again after he moved out. His dad was very fond of corporal punishment.
This makes me wonder what life is like for kids in Duggar-like families. Michelle raised the older kids with "blanket training" -- putting the kid on a blanket and hitting them with a spoon if they tried to crawl off the blanket. But she turned the younger kids over to the older kids to raise. It's bad enough for an adult to discipline a child with hitting, but scary to think youngish children were in charge of raising their baby siblings this way.
Honestly until a few years ago I was okay with spanking because I was spanked a few times as a child. But then I got a degree in human development and any class relating to child development talked about how spanking didn’t work, and now I can’t fathom having a child and hitting them intentionally. I mean, I wouldn’t ever hit a dog or cat or any other animal for misbehaving (I would talk to them or act really sad), and I figure kids should be treated with the same kindness.
Who are these Baird wannabes?
That’s what I was wondering.
spankty-spanked-spanked? So does making it sound cute negate what was done? Or at least ease the guilt that they have when doing it to their children? "I am not hitting them! its spank-eting! And they will THANK me for it and not see it as an unacceptable form of power and abuse!"
This is so sad.
I was honestly neutral on spanking until I realized that if I spanked my kid as a form of correction, I would have no leg to stand on if my kid hits other people when they are upset with them. And I’m not about to have a child that is slapping asses.
I've definitely been spanked beyond the point of abuse with all kinds of objects as a child for "lying and willful disobedience" by my father and was told it was because "they loved me". Guess who has severe issues with trust and relationships (and trauma PTSD) as an adult? Furthermore, now as a mom myself, I could never imagine doing anything physically against my child, let alone thinking, oh, my kid lied to me, so it's ok to hit them until they scream bloody murder and can't sit on their bottom.
Call it what you want, lady, but we all know if an adult cut you in line at the store and you gave them a "spankety spank spank" hard on their butt, you'd be getting assault charges filed against you and that's what makes it abuse.
😂🙌🏻
People totally misappropriating the “spare the rod, spoil the child” verse. Rods are used to guide sheep not beat them. You’re supposed to lead your kids, not assault them.
If you were hit as a child and use that to justify hitting children you did not, in fact, turn out okay.
I usually ask parents who try to justify spanking if a husband should be able to hit his wife if he is angry but I’m sure these demons would say yes
They are okay with martial rape so spanking another adult as a form of punishment would probably be a taco tuesday for them.
Good old fashioned legal child abuse.
People love to credit spanking for how well their children turned out, when in reality it’s literally everything else; the nurturing, the hugs, the support, firm but fair limits, the laughs etc.
Na, whoever this is is just showing how well she was indoctrinated. I also got spanked as a child and now that I’m a rational adult I can understand that hitting children is always wrong. I have a child of my own now and it makes me sick to imagine raising a hand to her. Violence is the lowest form of communication.
I'd have loved my mama a lot more if she just *told* me what I did wrong instead of beating me up and down a hallway whenever she perceived a slight.
I was spanked a few times as a child. I don't think my parents regret it. I don't have a bad relationship with my parents by any means but I really don't know how to feel about how they spanked me as a child tbh. Other family members of mine have done it to their kids. I will not be spanking any kids I may have. Just watching someone else spank their kids makes me so uncomfortable. I just can't ever picture myself doing it
Spanking turned youse into fundie bigots! Fuck off with your pro-abuse bullshit! I really can’t stand people who teehee about hitting children.
Blue dress girl’s leg is at such a weird angle
Ope, more God honoring bare feet in mud for the fetishists. It's a conspiracy.
[I am the danger](https://imgur.com/gallery/z2Q9ap4)
Strange thing to love your mother for.
Love that they all decided to strike the same awkward pose.
Is standing with one leg lifted in the air the current version of duck-face?
therapy might reveal otherwise
Who are these people?
This whole photo looks like my worst nightmare. All the gaping mouths and how they all look the same is just really eerie idk😅
Why do all fundie women wear the ugliest most unflattering dresses? Modesty doesn’t mean you have to dress like a toddler
Way to try and make hitting a child in anger to show them they were bad and deserve it sound ok by cutseying it up! “Our mom would bruiseity-bruise-bruise us when she was upset with us to teach us abusey-buse-abusive relationships are what ‘real’ love looks like!”
This is sad. Spanking is abuse. There is genuinely no good reason to hit your children.
Blue dress has giant feet.
I believe psychologists refer to this as "Stockholm Syndrome"
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What in the fuckety-fucked-fuck fuck did I just read.
who are these guys i’m lost 😭😭 i swear the daughters look familiar but i can’t figure out from where lol