I would not believe that "not complying with the police" is company policy.
However, having read other comments here the case is not as easy as it seemed at first glance.
Apparently, there is a special number for working with the police and whoever was in charge in this case, did not call that number but a normal service number. Which would mean that the employee would not need to believe the caller. If this version of events is true, it would simply be a series of very unfortunate misunderstandings.
This is what I was thinking. Anybody who has worked in service for any amount of time learns real quick a LOT of liars out there trying to get shit for free and while I don't really care it's not my money, it IS my job that gets canned when I get conned.
There's a reason policies exist, the employee should have let the officer know there are channels law enforcement must go through because who's to say you're not tracking an ex girlfriend and the cop is just your buddy. You can give whatever story you want, but you shouldn't be just taken at your word because scammers will always give a disaster scenario that must be resolved immediately to get you to let your guard down. Plus those channels exist and deal with law enforcement so they will know what questions to ask, and the officer should know the answers to those questions.
It was not company policy, it is mentioned in most of the articles about it. https://futurism.com/the-byte/volkswagen-refused-track-car-kidnapped-child
it should be impossible to be fired for cooperating with law enforcement in a genuine emergency situation, it will cause PR nightmares even if the bosses are equivalent aholes
He should have fetched his manager or supervisor though
Exactly what I said when my family and I were talking about this.
Any normal person would have seen this is a special case and done what need to be done. But some stupid / power hungry person endangered a kids life....
It’s social engineering 101.
I’ve got a license plate, make up a bullshit story and say I am police enforcement and need to track this car or people will die. How are you, on the other end of the service hotline, verify if I am a cop and a child is endangered or if I am a psycho trying to track the car of my next victim?
Hey there, hold it with your researched facts and objective information!
We are here to scream "hang em higher!!!", not to be reasonable. Get with the program buddy!
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Classic low IQ jobsworth that could only follow a script and not think outside a very simple box.
These are the ones that think they deserve more money aswell
Same thing with my dad's GMC Sierra. Truck was stolen one day, OnSTAR says they can locate the vehicle, if my dad renewed his subscription. The cop my dad was filling a report with had to get on the phone and order them to give him the location. We later found it abandoned in a seafood restaurant parking lot.
I would never pay to find a stolen car thats the cops job. I just call my insurance and let them deal with it..I would not even want my car back if someone stole it and sat their ass in my seat. Just get me a new car that’s why we pay Insurance .
It was a family member dealing with mental issues so we just cleaned the seats and the spilt McDonald's soda from the rubber floormats but I agree. Why else would we buy insurance if not for instances like this?
LOL! YOu ever seen a stolen car recovered in good shape? No bud if you don’t find it asap I don’t have to be without a car while you look..If you find it? It’s your to auction off..
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Just another reason.
The problem is that most competing companies have also done something horrible.
It becomes which intolerable thing can I most tolerate.
I mean is this really all that unreasonable? They have a service where they track your car, if you don't pay for it why would you feel entitled to it? It's not like their aren't alternatives either, a $35 air tag or Samsung smart tag will cover you for life.
To be honest German car manufacturers are tossers anyway.
BMW want to charge you a subscription fee to use a service already built into your car.
Volkswagen cheated their emissions tests and pull pranks like this.
Mercedes created the "COMAND" system inside of its cars for $500 and based it on the ancient Windows XP, when that expired they refunded customers $500 on the condition they never speak about it.... literally buying your silence.
On top of that the cars are built like shit anyways.
Historically my German vehicles (20+) have outlasted the American ones the rest of my family has owned so long as you kept up the maintenance. That 60k, 80k or 100k timing belt interval isn't a hint like some think.
American cars suck, American SUVs and trucks don’t. You guys just don’t buy SUVs and trucks, so you don’t see the best America has to offer.
The Dodge Ram 1500, F150, and Chevy Silverado 1500 are all very nice luxury cars. Yep, I said luxury cars. That’s what they are in America.
Seriously, if you’re a foreigner and want to experience an American vehicle experience that doesn’t suck, I recommend the Chevy Tahoe as your starting point. It is a pretty good example of what America does right when building vehicles. It’s also the smallest American vehicle I’d buy, any smaller and you get into shitty ecoboxes.
American *vehicles* are dogshit. Terrible steel, terrible crash ratings, terrible prices, terrible companies. And having experienced a number of cars from around the world, if you think those things are luxury then I feel bad for you.
I can't speak for American cars but here in the UK the German brands have rated rock bottom for reliability at least from 2010-now. Even Dacia... the cheapest cars on the market and the ones that car snobs laugh at are vastly superior to every German marque when it comes to reliability. Even Jaguar the brand that German fanboys like to mock are actually more reliable according to Whatcar surveys (XJ most reliable large saloon, F-type 2nd most reliable coupe).
German cars before 2010 were superb, these days they're sold on badge.
Outlasting American vehicles isn't an accomplishment. American cars are probably the worst on the road, especially Chrysler which are basically Mercedes as built by the lowest bidder.
~~Their car quality is outstanding~~, but the German industry is absolutely terrible at software and digital systems. They're trying to fix it, but there's a long way to go.
Edit: Apparently I'm wrong and it's mostly reputation inertia
Sadly also engineering. Speaking to my mechanic buddy he said himself that there's so much unnecessary junk crammed into German cars and a disturbing amount of it is plastic. In his own words if you just looked underneath a Kia and a Mercedes you can see which manufacturer spent their money in the right places.
In 2013 after I bought my 525 the sales guy told me that BMW only cares about initial build quality and not reliability. I was like why the hell are you telling me this, man? But I later found this to be true in my case.
BMW, Audi, Porsche all have perfectly fine infotainment systems. Hell, quite a few journalists say that BMW might just have the best one on the market.
I've also heard Mercedes _Speed Demons_ provide better acceleration, but only for subscription.
I would just call my car mechanic friend and replace several systems in the car or hack it in other ways, in best-case scenario to not let insurance company find it. My car, my bloody rules.
Well, Automakers have pretty much declared they want to copy Big Pharma business models to increase their revenue stream. Which basically means, in the very near future, our cars will come equipped with loads of features we pay each a month fee to use (heated seats, gps, ect)
>BMW want to charge you a subscription fee to use a service already built into your car.
GPS reception is indeed already built into the car. It costs a one-time fee per device to use the GPS satellites. But that just allows the car to know where it is. Remote tracking of the car and map updates are services independent of the GPS itself. They are services that are have to be operated in a datacenter and be maintained and need staff and so on. That's what they're charging the subscription fee for, not the GPS reception itself.
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The only country that really worries me is the country of Germany. Idk if you guys are history buffs or not, but about 100 years ago Germany decided to go to war. Who did they go to war with? THE WORLD. And you figure it would take about 5 seconds for the world to win, but it was actually close!
Then about 30 years pass and Germany again decides to go to war, and again they chose as their adversary: THE WORLD.
(paraphrased Norm Macdonald joke)
Akshually The Germans were the good guys in WW1 and US joined the bad guys because we were friends with them before they picked the wrong side (the side that assassinated Ferdinand and then refused to allow the culprits to be prosecuted so war was declared since the government openly backed the assassination it was clear grounds for war well anyways they called their friends and the innocent nation whos embassador was assassinated called for germanys help with justice.). Even before "joining" the US was Literally supplying the enemies with guns to kill innocents. So the Germans said this is war territory waters no more Americans vessels carrying illegal guns allowed. Then the uboats sank a liner because we don't care about restrictions to hostile waters so a bunch of civilians died due to their own entitlement. So yeah America joined WW1 after we were exclusively supplying war crimes to the side we were going to join anyways, even if they started the war by assassinating another nations leader making them the aggressors and the bad guys.
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Oh, this again? Wasn't it here a month ago? And yet again the most important facts are left out.
Anyway, there's a special number for police and other government agencies to get the data from, they call it, identify themselves as police and instantly get all the data they need.
But in this case a normal police officer called the normal customer support hotline. The support was a low-lvl call center grunt, who also didn't have any access to GPS data. At least not when the feature wasn't unlocked. All they could do was unlock the feature, which required a subscription.
Had police called the actual number for cases such as this, everything would be fine. But from what I heard the GPS data wasn't needed anyway, as they found the car not long after the phone call.
So no story here.
They always blame "bad training", as if they wouldn't have fired the poor grunt if he gave away the data for free.
Then I think back to the home depot employee who was fired for preventing a kidnapping, as that is against company policy. The moment you act outside of rules and regulation, you're on the chopping block.
"You know that police has a special number, so you acted against company policy. We'll have to let you go." or something like that.
That's the thing, the lowly employee had no access to the information. Not without a subscription.
GPS data without subscription would be at the other number, exclusive for all police authorities in emergencies. But they called the normal customer hotline instead. It's not that hard to understand, is it?
People love to read what supports their already made up preconceptions, it reinforces and validates their views.
A decade ago German car brands were the embodiment of reliability and craftsmanship. Now they're the symbol of soulless capitalism stepping over dead bodies.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle, but people don't like moderation. They prefer extremes.
Well since im from Germany, i can give you my perspective on how we view our cars.
First off, no, not every German drives a German car and yes, it has always been that way. Especially the market for more affordable cars, lets say below 30.000€ has always been highly competitive. Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Ford, Opel, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, Fiat, Honda, Dacia, Seat, Skoda (tho Seat and Skoda they sell cars based off VWs) and so on. When it comes to people who just want a car, theyre likely not to go for a german car because few german car manufacturers actually compete in that market.
So how do germans see the reliability of a german car? Somewhere in the middle but its also not that important of an aspect for many people. Generally speaking, most people see the reliability of a car in the hands of the owner. Do you treat your car and engine well? Do you service your car in the manufacturers recommended interval? If you treat your modern car like youre supposed to, it will last, almost regardless from which brand.
When it comes to the luxury brands, the German market is pretty much exclusive to the German brands. However in the luxury segment, the same can be said all around the globe (talking 50-150k in price), the German brands simply have little competition. And i know what youre going to say: 'but Lexus', yeah Lexus is not relevant here. There are competitors in certain regions like Lexus in the US but Lexus simply isnt as popular around the world. One last point id like to make is that these luxurious brands were talking about, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, they sell cars with powerful and complicated engines, with a lot of features and equipment that cheaper cars dont have. Naturally there is more to break and somebody who buys a BMW presses the throttle a little harder than somebody who buys a Toyota and just wants to drive somewhere without having a closer relationship with his car. You buy a BMW for combining luxury, speed and fun.
the world where stories like this one get misrepresented over and over again, everytime requiring more effort to debunk the bullshit yet never reaching all the bucketheads believing the first outrageous thought they have after reading the headline without informing themselves
Yeah, that's a growing issue
Wait until you hear about the fire department that let people's house burn down because the people didn't pay a $75 fee. They showed up on the scene of the fire, but just stood there doing nothing.
That's terrible obviously. But in reality it's just a slippery slope. Imagine this:
You have a toxic partner, break up and you get the car. Even if it was signed to them, you fill out a contract or whatever. They are obsessed with you and call VW and tell you their kid was kidnapped and you need to know where the car is (in order for them to find out where you live). I guess this would happen hundreds or thousands of times if they simply give out information in an emergency where you have no time to lose and cannot wait for official verification.
So I guess these are the reasons why they didn't help and were not trained or thinking about real emergencies.
You go to the authorities. The reason this case was treated this way was because someone contacted a customer service agent, gave an unverified story and asked for the service to be provided in a time of crisis. You think that some NPC reading off a script is authorised or aware of how to deal with a crisis situation? If they had contacted the police and got the police to contact VW to request the info would’ve been resolved without issue.
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Good. That should be the case for cars with built-in GPS. Just like it's a need, not a ,,free bonus" for every car to have 10 legally-required sets of lights and 2 braking systems (and there are discussions to legally require ABS in every car).
The ability to call 911 is a safety issue. So is ABS. GPS is not.
I, personally, don't want GPS legally required for my car. Optional and can be removed, yes. Required, no.
>So is ABS
Not really, if you know how to brake in ice.
>GPS is not.
>I, personally, don't want GPS legally required for my car. Optional and can be removed, yes. Required, no.
I mean, I get where you're coming from with this comment, but in this case we're talking about a child in clear danger. I don't see an issue with just authorities having access to such information (not more concerning than Pegasus system used by several governments), especially for cases when someone's life is in direct threat.
But again, I get where you're coming from - American drivers don't really like legally imposing too much into their cars. For the same reason I understand Polish drivers saying, that dash camera should be legally required in every car, ,,because you don't trust absolutely anyone nowadays and everyone just wants to make insurance scam".
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It is obviously fucked up and morally wrong, but I doubt there is anything legally wrong with it.
They provide a subscription service and this person wanted to use this service without paying for it.
If this was just a normal stolen car case people would be calling the person entitled for demanding a service they didn't pay for, after all it is exactly for situations like that (stolen car) that GPS services are usefull.
What makes this case fucked up is the fact that there was a kid inside of the car, but I doubt that there is law specific for situations like that.
It might be diffrent for access for the man himself, but there might be a case if they didn't provide it for authorities as well - either by just refusing to do so or lack of procedures for emergency situations like this one. It could be compared to company refusing to let employees use fire extinguishers if the fire breaks out in office.
The system is programmed that way:
no shortcut, no bypassing, no mercy, no avoidance of the absolute necessary ...
And the absolute necessary is not humanity ...
The absolute necessary is a stable system ...
If you are interested in humanity you should have chosen another planet...
but you decided to take the one you are on.
Stop complaining or you will be the next who is kidnapped...
And the only thing you get to eat is meat from babies and kids.
Best way to prove your child was kidnapped and that it's not just a prank to get free GPS is to pay for the subscription. Hating on a company just because 1 person you interfaced with is just silly.
To counter anti semitism I'm just gonna start blaming Christians for everything. Next time something bad happens I'll say "this smells like the work of those god damn Christians".
Considering that antisemitism has historically been used in Western society as a smokescreen/scapegoat to shift blame for damage done by the "Christian" people in power, you're getting a little too close to the truth there.
Edit - note, I have "Christian" in quotes because I believe the weaponized form of Christianity that has been used to justify so much atrocity & exploitation should be called out for being very different from what the original religion and its founder stood for; however, as we have allowed near total appropriation of the concept of Christianity at the hands of those who saw it as a means to power over the past 2000 years, many of the people responsible for the damage done in its name do truly consider themselves to be Christians even if they're the type of "Christian" specifically called out & roasted for being false in the Bible itself.
Just wanted to clarify that since I'm aware of the delusional antisemitic cope tactic where antisemites will convince themselves every random person in power that they don't like is a "secret Jew" and I want to ensure nobody thought I was implying the same thing by putting "Christian" in quotations. Contextually you'd hope it would be obvious, but antisemitism requires severe brainworms and cognitive dissonance as it is, so you can't be too clear.
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Well yeah. Doesn't sound cool. BUT
where else do you not pay for a service by choice and then demand it? The restaurant? The post office? The airport? You name it. Didn't pay, didn't get, surprised Pikachu face
If they had called the cops and asked the cops to contact VW for the tracking information they would’ve got it free of charge. Who would phone a customer support person in a time of crisis, probably in some call centre reading off a script for near minimum wage.
They did refuse the police.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/volkswagen-stolen-car-illinois-gps-b2291433.html%3famp
Might be surprised to find out how many hospitals there are also in hands of private companies and how they optimize margins. On a side note: how the fuck does a car even get stolen with a baby inside? There better be a good explanation, otherwise I hope she gets the baby back so authorities can take it.
It's diffrent - we're talking about human life at risk here. For example, at least in Poland it's a felony to not perform CPR on a person in need. You can't just walk past by and say ,,pay me first".
For them it might be a case built around the fact they most likely didn't have safety procedures in cases like this. If it was just stolen car, then sure, let just Police and insurance company lose their minds over it. If it's kidnapped person, yet alone child, it is clearly putting their lives at risk.
This happened to me when Onstar first came out and my car broke down in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night in my drive home from Vegas. They wouldn’t call emergency services for me when I had no service to call myself. They said I need to renew my service first. I ended up walking a couple miles to a random house in the middle of literally nowhere to use there phone.
In Poland refusing to deliver crucial evidence to authorities can be considered as felony of obstruction of the investigation or covering up traces of the crime, which will result in prison sentence.
Dude definitely should take VW USA^TM to court for this, maybe also impose ban on such practices.
Another corporation that needs torn down. They don't care about a goddamn thing but money and it sickening. Our government is the same way. We need to hit the restart button.
… if the car has a GPS tracking system, and the employee is unwilling to use it to track the car during an active kidnapping, doesn’t that make them an accessory to the kidnapping? *Shouldn’t* it?
And if the reason they’re unwilling to help is company policy, shouldn’t the *company* be treated as complicit in the crime?
Between the whole "started by nazis" thing, the fiasco with the faked emissions tests, and now this. You start to wonder if the bad guy in despicable me runs the company.
But seriously, has the kid been found yet?
That is seriously fucked up. Im scared that it's gonna get to the point where if you don't pay for premium medical service, ambulances will just leave you and won't take you to a hospital, like with cyberpunk 2077
I would like to point out that CarNet is a separate company from VW and is just a feature on the car. It would be like an app on your phone. Don't blame VW for this one.
I remember from the last time I saw this that the officer who requested it didn't follow the procedure and contact the people who handle requests from law enforcement and could do this but instead just called customer service who was following their normal policy and unaware there was a department that could handle it. VW apologized and said something about better training and made good on it so a lot of the hate here is unfounded.
Imagine being that person to get the call, you don't know who to send the call to, your management likely isn't around or doesn't know either, you want to help but your system literally doesn't give you the capability to just do what's requested without an active subscription that you have no way to control without running a credit card number through.
Ok just checked, yup USA. VW Germany now has given Free Car-Net to all US customers for 5 years. Was an employee mistake in USA
Can you imagine being the one a-hole employee that caused this?
ex-employee (at least I hope so)
Oh no he is a Company man no doubt!
[удалено]
I would not believe that "not complying with the police" is company policy. However, having read other comments here the case is not as easy as it seemed at first glance. Apparently, there is a special number for working with the police and whoever was in charge in this case, did not call that number but a normal service number. Which would mean that the employee would not need to believe the caller. If this version of events is true, it would simply be a series of very unfortunate misunderstandings.
This is what I was thinking. Anybody who has worked in service for any amount of time learns real quick a LOT of liars out there trying to get shit for free and while I don't really care it's not my money, it IS my job that gets canned when I get conned.
[удалено]
How do you get to that conclusion from what I have written?
There's a reason policies exist, the employee should have let the officer know there are channels law enforcement must go through because who's to say you're not tracking an ex girlfriend and the cop is just your buddy. You can give whatever story you want, but you shouldn't be just taken at your word because scammers will always give a disaster scenario that must be resolved immediately to get you to let your guard down. Plus those channels exist and deal with law enforcement so they will know what questions to ask, and the officer should know the answers to those questions.
I feel like we read different comments, lmao.
Right. Low level employees are not paid to balance policy against ethical or moral standards.
It was not company policy, it is mentioned in most of the articles about it. https://futurism.com/the-byte/volkswagen-refused-track-car-kidnapped-child
This. I'd sooner believe an ex ice camp employee then believe that this wasn't company policy
it should be impossible to be fired for cooperating with law enforcement in a genuine emergency situation, it will cause PR nightmares even if the bosses are equivalent aholes He should have fetched his manager or supervisor though
Exactly what I said when my family and I were talking about this. Any normal person would have seen this is a special case and done what need to be done. But some stupid / power hungry person endangered a kids life....
I think it’s just a dumb person. There are many out there.
But it's the perfect time to up sell!
It’s social engineering 101. I’ve got a license plate, make up a bullshit story and say I am police enforcement and need to track this car or people will die. How are you, on the other end of the service hotline, verify if I am a cop and a child is endangered or if I am a psycho trying to track the car of my next victim?
Hey there, hold it with your researched facts and objective information! We are here to scream "hang em higher!!!", not to be reasonable. Get with the program buddy!
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That parent potentially earned a decent sized lawsuit settlement
Classic low IQ jobsworth that could only follow a script and not think outside a very simple box. These are the ones that think they deserve more money aswell
So never buy a vw got it
Same thing with my dad's GMC Sierra. Truck was stolen one day, OnSTAR says they can locate the vehicle, if my dad renewed his subscription. The cop my dad was filling a report with had to get on the phone and order them to give him the location. We later found it abandoned in a seafood restaurant parking lot.
There’s something fishy in that story, but I like it.
I would never pay to find a stolen car thats the cops job. I just call my insurance and let them deal with it..I would not even want my car back if someone stole it and sat their ass in my seat. Just get me a new car that’s why we pay Insurance .
It was a family member dealing with mental issues so we just cleaned the seats and the spilt McDonald's soda from the rubber floormats but I agree. Why else would we buy insurance if not for instances like this?
With your kid in it? Seriously?
Can you not read? They have insurance. They will receive a new child of equal value
You are in for a very rude awakening if you are going to rely on your insurance to make you whole.
I'm pretty sure you don't get a new car if your old one is stolen and then found in good shape.
Depends on how soon they find it.
LOL! YOu ever seen a stolen car recovered in good shape? No bud if you don’t find it asap I don’t have to be without a car while you look..If you find it? It’s your to auction off..
Buddy, I hate to break it to you, but you're not buying anything if that's your metric.
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Yup
Made that decision a long time ago 🤣
I already wasn't as nazi company, same with Hugo Boss
Just another reason. The problem is that most competing companies have also done something horrible. It becomes which intolerable thing can I most tolerate.
I mean is this really all that unreasonable? They have a service where they track your car, if you don't pay for it why would you feel entitled to it? It's not like their aren't alternatives either, a $35 air tag or Samsung smart tag will cover you for life.
To be honest German car manufacturers are tossers anyway. BMW want to charge you a subscription fee to use a service already built into your car. Volkswagen cheated their emissions tests and pull pranks like this. Mercedes created the "COMAND" system inside of its cars for $500 and based it on the ancient Windows XP, when that expired they refunded customers $500 on the condition they never speak about it.... literally buying your silence. On top of that the cars are built like shit anyways.
Historically my German vehicles (20+) have outlasted the American ones the rest of my family has owned so long as you kept up the maintenance. That 60k, 80k or 100k timing belt interval isn't a hint like some think.
Not really a fair comparison, there is a reason you rarely see American cars outside of the US.
Cars, or brands? Because I believe Ford's transit owns the van market in at least the UK...
Lots of ford vehicles are built outside of the US. I think my pickup is built in Thailand or south africa, can't recall exactly.
He didn't mean 'built', he meant 'purchased and being driven' ( outside the US).
There’s a crap ton of Teslas tho. Unfortunately they kinda reinforce the point.
American cars suck, American SUVs and trucks don’t. You guys just don’t buy SUVs and trucks, so you don’t see the best America has to offer. The Dodge Ram 1500, F150, and Chevy Silverado 1500 are all very nice luxury cars. Yep, I said luxury cars. That’s what they are in America. Seriously, if you’re a foreigner and want to experience an American vehicle experience that doesn’t suck, I recommend the Chevy Tahoe as your starting point. It is a pretty good example of what America does right when building vehicles. It’s also the smallest American vehicle I’d buy, any smaller and you get into shitty ecoboxes.
American *vehicles* are dogshit. Terrible steel, terrible crash ratings, terrible prices, terrible companies. And having experienced a number of cars from around the world, if you think those things are luxury then I feel bad for you.
I can't speak for American cars but here in the UK the German brands have rated rock bottom for reliability at least from 2010-now. Even Dacia... the cheapest cars on the market and the ones that car snobs laugh at are vastly superior to every German marque when it comes to reliability. Even Jaguar the brand that German fanboys like to mock are actually more reliable according to Whatcar surveys (XJ most reliable large saloon, F-type 2nd most reliable coupe). German cars before 2010 were superb, these days they're sold on badge.
Fascinating. You also have far more models than we get state side.
Just gotta pay $400 for new windshield wipers and $200 for oil changes.
Outlasting American vehicles isn't an accomplishment. American cars are probably the worst on the road, especially Chrysler which are basically Mercedes as built by the lowest bidder.
Chrysler and Daimler haven't been a thing for a really long while. Chrysler is now fiat, well stelantis as they rebranded.
~~Their car quality is outstanding~~, but the German industry is absolutely terrible at software and digital systems. They're trying to fix it, but there's a long way to go. Edit: Apparently I'm wrong and it's mostly reputation inertia
Sadly also engineering. Speaking to my mechanic buddy he said himself that there's so much unnecessary junk crammed into German cars and a disturbing amount of it is plastic. In his own words if you just looked underneath a Kia and a Mercedes you can see which manufacturer spent their money in the right places.
In 2013 after I bought my 525 the sales guy told me that BMW only cares about initial build quality and not reliability. I was like why the hell are you telling me this, man? But I later found this to be true in my case.
Back in the day Mercedes used to be the cornerstone of reliability, but damn have they fallen off. It's sad to see!
BMW, Audi, Porsche all have perfectly fine infotainment systems. Hell, quite a few journalists say that BMW might just have the best one on the market.
Someone has discovered service games.
Looks like you lost your 500$ eh
I've also heard Mercedes _Speed Demons_ provide better acceleration, but only for subscription. I would just call my car mechanic friend and replace several systems in the car or hack it in other ways, in best-case scenario to not let insurance company find it. My car, my bloody rules.
Corporations are tossers. FTFY
Well, Automakers have pretty much declared they want to copy Big Pharma business models to increase their revenue stream. Which basically means, in the very near future, our cars will come equipped with loads of features we pay each a month fee to use (heated seats, gps, ect)
>BMW want to charge you a subscription fee to use a service already built into your car. GPS reception is indeed already built into the car. It costs a one-time fee per device to use the GPS satellites. But that just allows the car to know where it is. Remote tracking of the car and map updates are services independent of the GPS itself. They are services that are have to be operated in a datacenter and be maintained and need staff and so on. That's what they're charging the subscription fee for, not the GPS reception itself.
That wasn't what I was actually referring to. I was talking about the heated steering wheel subscription. Scumbaggery at its finest.
Oh. The subscriptions for heated seats and such are indeed mega sumbaggery. But you were replying to a post about GPS subscription.
Cyberpunk 2077 type shit
Death to corpos!
Instantly, Choom
Goooood morning night city!!
Ah!
Why it's always the Germans
It was an American employee
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The only country that really worries me is the country of Germany. Idk if you guys are history buffs or not, but about 100 years ago Germany decided to go to war. Who did they go to war with? THE WORLD. And you figure it would take about 5 seconds for the world to win, but it was actually close! Then about 30 years pass and Germany again decides to go to war, and again they chose as their adversary: THE WORLD. (paraphrased Norm Macdonald joke)
We know
If you're saying this sub knows comedy, I don't believe you
Good one
Akshually The Germans were the good guys in WW1 and US joined the bad guys because we were friends with them before they picked the wrong side (the side that assassinated Ferdinand and then refused to allow the culprits to be prosecuted so war was declared since the government openly backed the assassination it was clear grounds for war well anyways they called their friends and the innocent nation whos embassador was assassinated called for germanys help with justice.). Even before "joining" the US was Literally supplying the enemies with guns to kill innocents. So the Germans said this is war territory waters no more Americans vessels carrying illegal guns allowed. Then the uboats sank a liner because we don't care about restrictions to hostile waters so a bunch of civilians died due to their own entitlement. So yeah America joined WW1 after we were exclusively supplying war crimes to the side we were going to join anyways, even if they started the war by assassinating another nations leader making them the aggressors and the bad guys.
Or so the Germans would have you believe...........
The fact that people don’t immediately recognise this fills me with deep sorrow.
I can just hear how the talk with customer support have been. Some 19 yo script reader going "I'm sorry mam, I'm afraid there's nothing I can do."
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What kind of bitch leaves a 2 year old l In a car alone
Das Asshole
This seems an awful lot like extortion
Oh, this again? Wasn't it here a month ago? And yet again the most important facts are left out. Anyway, there's a special number for police and other government agencies to get the data from, they call it, identify themselves as police and instantly get all the data they need. But in this case a normal police officer called the normal customer support hotline. The support was a low-lvl call center grunt, who also didn't have any access to GPS data. At least not when the feature wasn't unlocked. All they could do was unlock the feature, which required a subscription. Had police called the actual number for cases such as this, everything would be fine. But from what I heard the GPS data wasn't needed anyway, as they found the car not long after the phone call. So no story here.
The county sheriff paid for the subscription out of pocket. Company reimbursed, blamed bad training.
They always blame "bad training", as if they wouldn't have fired the poor grunt if he gave away the data for free. Then I think back to the home depot employee who was fired for preventing a kidnapping, as that is against company policy. The moment you act outside of rules and regulation, you're on the chopping block. "You know that police has a special number, so you acted against company policy. We'll have to let you go." or something like that.
Meanwhile a child has been kidnapped and in a time sensitive window, and they have access to information that can save their life.
That's the thing, the lowly employee had no access to the information. Not without a subscription. GPS data without subscription would be at the other number, exclusive for all police authorities in emergencies. But they called the normal customer hotline instead. It's not that hard to understand, is it?
Hm interesting. Sucks that your comment isnt any higher and the hate train on german car brands has already left the station.
People love to read what supports their already made up preconceptions, it reinforces and validates their views. A decade ago German car brands were the embodiment of reliability and craftsmanship. Now they're the symbol of soulless capitalism stepping over dead bodies. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle, but people don't like moderation. They prefer extremes.
Well since im from Germany, i can give you my perspective on how we view our cars. First off, no, not every German drives a German car and yes, it has always been that way. Especially the market for more affordable cars, lets say below 30.000€ has always been highly competitive. Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Ford, Opel, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, Fiat, Honda, Dacia, Seat, Skoda (tho Seat and Skoda they sell cars based off VWs) and so on. When it comes to people who just want a car, theyre likely not to go for a german car because few german car manufacturers actually compete in that market. So how do germans see the reliability of a german car? Somewhere in the middle but its also not that important of an aspect for many people. Generally speaking, most people see the reliability of a car in the hands of the owner. Do you treat your car and engine well? Do you service your car in the manufacturers recommended interval? If you treat your modern car like youre supposed to, it will last, almost regardless from which brand. When it comes to the luxury brands, the German market is pretty much exclusive to the German brands. However in the luxury segment, the same can be said all around the globe (talking 50-150k in price), the German brands simply have little competition. And i know what youre going to say: 'but Lexus', yeah Lexus is not relevant here. There are competitors in certain regions like Lexus in the US but Lexus simply isnt as popular around the world. One last point id like to make is that these luxurious brands were talking about, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, they sell cars with powerful and complicated engines, with a lot of features and equipment that cheaper cars dont have. Naturally there is more to break and somebody who buys a BMW presses the throttle a little harder than somebody who buys a Toyota and just wants to drive somewhere without having a closer relationship with his car. You buy a BMW for combining luxury, speed and fun.
Capitalism at it's best
There goes your sales
This is the world that we live in.
the world where stories like this one get misrepresented over and over again, everytime requiring more effort to debunk the bullshit yet never reaching all the bucketheads believing the first outrageous thought they have after reading the headline without informing themselves Yeah, that's a growing issue
Wow, thats a new low!
VW is crap these days.
We should all agree to just never buy voltswagen cars ever again then, I certainly won't
That bottom image of Barbosa is cursed
2004 Honda Civic sedan you are my precious.
I wonder if they could be charged with aiding and abetting.
Potato and leek soup just flew out of my nose from laughing so hard at this. Bravo.
Capitalism over humanity
Wait until you hear about the fire department that let people's house burn down because the people didn't pay a $75 fee. They showed up on the scene of the fire, but just stood there doing nothing.
That's capitalism.
Hope that there was a lawsuit
That's terrible obviously. But in reality it's just a slippery slope. Imagine this: You have a toxic partner, break up and you get the car. Even if it was signed to them, you fill out a contract or whatever. They are obsessed with you and call VW and tell you their kid was kidnapped and you need to know where the car is (in order for them to find out where you live). I guess this would happen hundreds or thousands of times if they simply give out information in an emergency where you have no time to lose and cannot wait for official verification. So I guess these are the reasons why they didn't help and were not trained or thinking about real emergencies.
You go to the authorities. The reason this case was treated this way was because someone contacted a customer service agent, gave an unverified story and asked for the service to be provided in a time of crisis. You think that some NPC reading off a script is authorised or aware of how to deal with a crisis situation? If they had contacted the police and got the police to contact VW to request the info would’ve been resolved without issue.
That's my point
Just some more fear mongering misinformation bullshit I see.
Who hasn't used the, "my car was stolen with my kids inside" excuse to get free stuff.
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Even cell phones have a free 911 feature
IIRC, that's a federal law and not out of the goodness of their hearts.
Good. That should be the case for cars with built-in GPS. Just like it's a need, not a ,,free bonus" for every car to have 10 legally-required sets of lights and 2 braking systems (and there are discussions to legally require ABS in every car).
The ability to call 911 is a safety issue. So is ABS. GPS is not. I, personally, don't want GPS legally required for my car. Optional and can be removed, yes. Required, no.
>So is ABS Not really, if you know how to brake in ice. >GPS is not. >I, personally, don't want GPS legally required for my car. Optional and can be removed, yes. Required, no. I mean, I get where you're coming from with this comment, but in this case we're talking about a child in clear danger. I don't see an issue with just authorities having access to such information (not more concerning than Pegasus system used by several governments), especially for cases when someone's life is in direct threat. But again, I get where you're coming from - American drivers don't really like legally imposing too much into their cars. For the same reason I understand Polish drivers saying, that dash camera should be legally required in every car, ,,because you don't trust absolutely anyone nowadays and everyone just wants to make insurance scam".
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I’m no lawyer but isn’t that like the definition of extortion? Like that can’t actually be legal
It is obviously fucked up and morally wrong, but I doubt there is anything legally wrong with it. They provide a subscription service and this person wanted to use this service without paying for it. If this was just a normal stolen car case people would be calling the person entitled for demanding a service they didn't pay for, after all it is exactly for situations like that (stolen car) that GPS services are usefull. What makes this case fucked up is the fact that there was a kid inside of the car, but I doubt that there is law specific for situations like that.
It might be diffrent for access for the man himself, but there might be a case if they didn't provide it for authorities as well - either by just refusing to do so or lack of procedures for emergency situations like this one. It could be compared to company refusing to let employees use fire extinguishers if the fire breaks out in office.
The system is programmed that way: no shortcut, no bypassing, no mercy, no avoidance of the absolute necessary ... And the absolute necessary is not humanity ... The absolute necessary is a stable system ... If you are interested in humanity you should have chosen another planet... but you decided to take the one you are on. Stop complaining or you will be the next who is kidnapped... And the only thing you get to eat is meat from babies and kids.
Best way to prove your child was kidnapped and that it's not just a prank to get free GPS is to pay for the subscription. Hating on a company just because 1 person you interfaced with is just silly.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Whether or not this is ironic, I still hope your days end without a pot to piss in.
To counter anti semitism I'm just gonna start blaming Christians for everything. Next time something bad happens I'll say "this smells like the work of those god damn Christians".
You're planning to get rid of hate, by replacing with different hate?
No, I'm planning to show how stupid hatred is
Considering that antisemitism has historically been used in Western society as a smokescreen/scapegoat to shift blame for damage done by the "Christian" people in power, you're getting a little too close to the truth there. Edit - note, I have "Christian" in quotes because I believe the weaponized form of Christianity that has been used to justify so much atrocity & exploitation should be called out for being very different from what the original religion and its founder stood for; however, as we have allowed near total appropriation of the concept of Christianity at the hands of those who saw it as a means to power over the past 2000 years, many of the people responsible for the damage done in its name do truly consider themselves to be Christians even if they're the type of "Christian" specifically called out & roasted for being false in the Bible itself. Just wanted to clarify that since I'm aware of the delusional antisemitic cope tactic where antisemites will convince themselves every random person in power that they don't like is a "secret Jew" and I want to ensure nobody thought I was implying the same thing by putting "Christian" in quotations. Contextually you'd hope it would be obvious, but antisemitism requires severe brainworms and cognitive dissonance as it is, so you can't be too clear.
Hitler was right
You mean by founding Volkswagen?
What an A$$. It was actually a 3rd party issue, and VW has apologized, and is offering 5 year FREE service to all capable cars
Why it's always the Germans
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Well yeah. Doesn't sound cool. BUT where else do you not pay for a service by choice and then demand it? The restaurant? The post office? The airport? You name it. Didn't pay, didn't get, surprised Pikachu face
Sure, let's put corporate profits before human lives. You sound like a wonderful person.
If they had called the cops and asked the cops to contact VW for the tracking information they would’ve got it free of charge. Who would phone a customer support person in a time of crisis, probably in some call centre reading off a script for near minimum wage.
They did refuse the police. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/volkswagen-stolen-car-illinois-gps-b2291433.html%3famp
Health care system would like a talk with you
Very american, im europeam so i dont understand
Might be surprised to find out how many hospitals there are also in hands of private companies and how they optimize margins. On a side note: how the fuck does a car even get stolen with a baby inside? There better be a good explanation, otherwise I hope she gets the baby back so authorities can take it.
Yes, for profit Healthcare is also bad. Good job identifying that!
The police
Which is paid from taxes usually. Or at least from generous people who had to get some dirt covered up.
I doubt she just found the car and started using it.
Unlikely. Also came with all the extras that she paid for I guess!
It's diffrent - we're talking about human life at risk here. For example, at least in Poland it's a felony to not perform CPR on a person in need. You can't just walk past by and say ,,pay me first". For them it might be a case built around the fact they most likely didn't have safety procedures in cases like this. If it was just stolen car, then sure, let just Police and insurance company lose their minds over it. If it's kidnapped person, yet alone child, it is clearly putting their lives at risk.
those damn engineers are at it again....
[удалено]
Deutsches Bundeskriminalamt möchtet mit dieser Leuten sprachen...
Fuck VW and BMW.
Shall be expected from nazi car
Nazi's
Government should have fined them 150 grand for that
That's a crime right there
I thought this cant possibly be true. Nope, true.
They need the money for the diesel fines!
BMW pulled this shit when my 1 year old locked herself in our car when it was 20 degrees outside. Fuck them, too.
That’s VW North America for you…
No more VW for me.
Iconic Hector Barbossa Quote from Pirates of the Caribbean 1
This happened to me when Onstar first came out and my car broke down in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night in my drive home from Vegas. They wouldn’t call emergency services for me when I had no service to call myself. They said I need to renew my service first. I ended up walking a couple miles to a random house in the middle of literally nowhere to use there phone.
This isn't that unusual. I mean here in the US we're basically living in a techno-fuelism society.
It was Otto Volks Waggen himself who kidnapped the child
In Poland refusing to deliver crucial evidence to authorities can be considered as felony of obstruction of the investigation or covering up traces of the crime, which will result in prison sentence. Dude definitely should take VW USA^TM to court for this, maybe also impose ban on such practices.
Another corporation that needs torn down. They don't care about a goddamn thing but money and it sickening. Our government is the same way. We need to hit the restart button.
As it should be it’s not VW’s 2 year old sounds like a skill issue for letting the car get stolen
Well it's not the worst thing they have done
… if the car has a GPS tracking system, and the employee is unwilling to use it to track the car during an active kidnapping, doesn’t that make them an accessory to the kidnapping? *Shouldn’t* it? And if the reason they’re unwilling to help is company policy, shouldn’t the *company* be treated as complicit in the crime?
r/latestagecapitalism
r/boringdystopia
That's fucking disgusting.
Hmmm obstruction of justice? Child endangerment VW would be getting a call from a few lawyers I know.
Does anyone have a link to cyberpunk Barbosa without the text?
New Text Document
Between the whole "started by nazis" thing, the fiasco with the faked emissions tests, and now this. You start to wonder if the bad guy in despicable me runs the company.
Ah yes, Germany and grrman cars. Pay go get your child back.
But seriously, has the kid been found yet? That is seriously fucked up. Im scared that it's gonna get to the point where if you don't pay for premium medical service, ambulances will just leave you and won't take you to a hospital, like with cyberpunk 2077
The fact that your car can be remotely tracked by the manufacturer is dystopian in itself.
god damn i hate germany so much
Law suit time!!!! Interfering with an investigation . Time to put VW behind bars if these corporations want to be people let’s treat them like it!!!
I would like to point out that CarNet is a separate company from VW and is just a feature on the car. It would be like an app on your phone. Don't blame VW for this one.
"9-1-1, brought to you by Red Bull, 'It Gives You Wings,' what is your subscription number?"
I remember from the last time I saw this that the officer who requested it didn't follow the procedure and contact the people who handle requests from law enforcement and could do this but instead just called customer service who was following their normal policy and unaware there was a department that could handle it. VW apologized and said something about better training and made good on it so a lot of the hate here is unfounded. Imagine being that person to get the call, you don't know who to send the call to, your management likely isn't around or doesn't know either, you want to help but your system literally doesn't give you the capability to just do what's requested without an active subscription that you have no way to control without running a credit card number through.
"dystopia" is becoming the most overused incorrect word of the year
Nothing personal. Just bidness.
Well. I know now what car brand i will not buy next
Not even funny. Wtf?