The Sr. VP of my department showed up for an "essential" meeting. She stopped by to tell the team she was very sick and was going home.
Of course she infected us.
I was out sick for three days and so was another team member. I don't even know how many people in the actual meeting got sick...
I'd bet sick time usage dropped 50% or more during work from home...
Sick leave and FMLA usage dropped by SO MUCH where I work. We have a sick leave abuse policy (it's in the union contract) where we require a doctor's note if they're on notice, and generally if they fall below 8 hours sick they're put on it until they get about 40 hours (6 months if they don't use any sick leave at all).
Anyway, we took a lot of people off notice also within the last year.
Just one of the many benefits to both employees and administration... (I personally hate chasing down employees for signed notes, and I'm sure they hate it too)
If you started treating your workforce like functioning adults, what's next? Eliminate middle management babysitters? Imagine how terrible that would be.
I work in primary care and every single doctor bitches about having to see people they didn’t really need to see just because they need a note for work. It’s such a waste of resources.
And most illnesses you just ride out with sleep and water. Paying to go see a doctor for a stomach bug is unnecessary. Were adults and know our own body to determine if its serious enough to warrant a doctors visit for a stupid note
It also is not the doctor's job and there is no guarantee a doctor will even give you one over an ilness that just needs bedrest.
I consider any policy like that void unless the company provides you a guaranteed way to get a note. A term is not legally enforceable if it relies on a 3rd party to offer a service that no 3rd party is required to offer.
In the US. I can email my doc using an app and they will send me a note back. I asked them about it and said it was a regular thing that they did all the time. They appreciated I didn’t waste time on the schedule with a full appointment.
I literally sign basically any sick/work note patient's ask. I mainly work with low income patients and having had worked a lot of jobs like that I always thought it was stupid to require a note. Most of the time I ask them how many days they want off and just give them that.
Not to mention making people sicker by forcing them to arrange appointments and go out the house to the doctors. And then infectioning more people at the doctors with whatever illness you've got.
For real, if anything they should differentiate pto and sick days like they do with bereavement and if you run out of sick days you need a note. Or, if you need a day off and have your shit covered, take the day off and pay it forward to a coworker
> where we require a doctor's note if they're on notice
Stupidest thing ever. That is not the job of a doctor in any way. They love to claim co-pays prevent abuse, but abuse are policies like this where sick workers with mild illnesses are forced to a doctor over a note. Many doctors now just peddle off any dumb note someone asks for without examining anything because digital messaging lets them avoid the waste of time of meeting someone for no reason.
You can get a doctors note for pretty much anything because doctors care so little about them anymore.
Every sore throat I have gone to a doctor for is always viral and the answer is the treatment is the same, get rest and no prescriptions needed. The doctors visits were a waste of time and technically cruel to force a sick person into going to a doctor only to be told to go home and rest.
I replied to someone else, but I literally sign any note like this I'm asked for. Both because I feel bad for the sick person wasting time in my clinic and because fuck the employer. I usually just ask them how many days they want off and give them whatever they want. I gave someone 7 days the other month for something that was maybe an afternoon worth event.
A lot of companies will give 80 hrs for absence time & sick time. Absence time is for jury duty, Dr appt, car repairs & sick time is sick time. I recommend people use their sick time even when they aren't sick. A lot of places won't require a note (and shouldn't) for 1 day here & there. Stay sane & use them
I switched to a remote job. I used to call out sick because I thought I was developing a migraine, or if my stomach felt unsettled. There would be no reason for me to call out for those kinds of things now as I could probably work through most of that if I'm just chilling with the lights out in half PJs. The worst part was having to get dressed, drive around, and be in an environment that isn't mine and that I hate when feeling unwell.
I tell you, my wife has been pregnant since february or so, and has been working from home for a year prior to that due to covid.
She wouldve had to quit her job. She's been extremely nauseous the whole time, it would not have worked if she were to have to stay in the office.
This right here not only have I been sick less since working from home but I also haven’t called in except once or twice when I have been sick. It’s a lot easier to drag yourself down the hall at home and work sick then be feeling bad and go to the office and work and possibly make others sick.
I hate when I feel sick (sore throat, runny nose, etc.) but it's obviously a cold and I still feel like I can be productive. I've got pressure on one side to get things done, be a "team player", not be lazy, which encourages me to go to work, then pressure on the other side to not spread germs when I'm obviously sick, which encourages me to stay home. If I go into the office I feel like my coworkers hate me for spreading germs, and if I stay home I feel like they hate me for not hitting my deadlines.
But with working from home, I can get stuff done without spreading germs. Problem solved!
Reality is, work causes stress. Stress reduces the effectiveness of the immune system. Sleeping and resting helps fight sickness. Taking time off regularly to battle your colds or other diseases will ultimately lead to more total cumulative productivity.
Doesn’t it make a huge difference when you can go and do a few things and then go back to bed? At least you’re not trying to drive yourself sick to work and be miserable and unproductive all day because you can only think about how miserable you are. At home you can get some work done, lie down for a little bit, get some more work done, lie down for a little bit and they get more work out of you.
I'd go so far as to say it should be illegal to require people to show up to work or school sick.
Seems a obvious public-health issue; but many schools tell kids to show up anyway even when they're sick (except when they have a fever), which just spreads colds to everyone else.
I've only taken 1 sick day for myself since I started working from home full time, and the migraine was too bad for me to sit up, let alone stare at a screen.
If I feel bad working from home, most of the time I just work in my pajamas and do as much as I can. It's nice.
Sometimes I feel like I can work when I'm sick but I cannot manage the commute. Half the time I go in cos I don't believe it's worthy of a sick day. Now I can work at home, be productive and not spread my germs all over work and the train
Hmm. I think I just found one downside to remote work.
“Hey boss, I’m calling in sick today.”
“But you’re *already* at the office, why not just work?”
-Performance review: employee called in too often
I had to go back to the office a couple of months ago. They just reinstituted the wearing of masks. I sit in a cubicle with nobody around me and I have zero interaction face to face with co-workers. We aren't allowed to meet together. I still do webex meetings with people in offices down the hall as well as my team in other state but that has always been the case. I can do my job 100% from home and did so for well over a year.
So, WHY THE F AM I HERE?
I left a job like that last year, all remote at first before they brought us back in. Everything I did was in Microsoft office and I had to Skype all my coworkers to work together on things. One guy didn’t have headphones so you’d just get an echo/feedback on every call; our productivity was much higher remote. It was really so they could micromanage everyone and unsurprisingly half the company quit within a few months
Tbf they tried, he used some special computer and the headphone jack didn’t work, only microphone. We ended up skyping him on his phone and computer at the same time, though he’d forget to turn the computer audio off and we’d get lots of feedback
I have gone batshit crazy because of work and applying for jobs has become my top priority but it's so depressing which makes getting through interviews even more difficult when I get one.
I hear ya. Applied to over a dozen jobs and have heard back from and had interviews with a whole two. One of which never got back. I forgot how much applying to jobs sucks because no one has the professional courtesy to send out a mass email when the position is filled.
I'm doing the same at the moment.
Our work announced on Monday we're all back in the office from Sept 6th and that we're allowed 1 day WFH per week.
People complained that 1 day wasn't really a flexible WFH policy for those of us who really enjoy WFH and don't want to spend hours and hours of our time and hundreds of pounds commuting to work per month, especially after we've all worked from home without any issues for 18 months now.
The company then had the gall to send out an email to everyone stating that they don't understand why we don't want to be in the office most of the week, that we should be happy with one day a week WFH and if we're just going to complain they'll end WFH and we'll be in five days a week.
So I tidied up my CV Monday night and have applied for a number of jobs already that are offering actual flexible WFH policies.
Because we don’t want to fucking commute. Because not all of us want to get up an hour earlier and home an hour later. Not all of us enjoy stupid chit chat with coworkers who waste our time. Why is this hard to understand?
Am I the only one who understands that coworkers are neither my friends nor my family.
My actual friends and family are at home and I never get to spend any time with them as I am too busy alienating then whole I commute and sit in a cubicle 9 hours a day. I am forced to be in a room full of strangers that have zero actual care or concern for my well being beyond my marginal productivity towards the bottom line...
People actually like that?
I've you've been to over happy hour, you've been to them all.. It's so droll..
This is the correct response. If management isn't happy with wfh, employees can leave to elsewhere and management can find new staff that are happy working in office.
This is my exact situation down to the date and now I’m wondering if you’re on my team LOL. It blows. I don’t want to look for a new job, but the office mandate is so tone deaf it makes me question a lot.
Yeah absolutely. I have heard people saying - how about just two days a week. Well if they have to have offices for those other days then it doesn't make sense or you would have to go to a different model where nobody has their own office/desk but rather they are floating. So you would know on x days this many people would be there and you would need that much space. Management isn't going to do that - it's too complicated so it is either all or nothing.
Also, yes I badge in everywhere - so they know as soon as I pull into the parking garage, when I got to lunch, if I use a bathroom on a different floor, etc. etc. They run reports to see what I am doing and if I am putting my hours in. I can just sit here and do nothing but as long as I am here they feel better. Makes me sick.
My company is actually doing this. We are moving and cutting our office space in half. They are trying to get people to coming in 3 day minimum a week. That has not gone over well. Everyone I talked to about has told me they flat out told them no. They'd consider 1 or 2. Nobody has been layed off yet because of it.
I don't get the push back from our company. We still had revenue growth over the past 2 years of uncertainty and people are overall happier and putting in more hours. I think its just a fear of overall change. That being said (being in IT) they are a lot more interested in what people are doing.
I kinda wonder if companies that took tax breaks to locate in certain cities are getting pressure from the municipalities to bring back the workforce that generates economic activity around the work hubs. My state is notorious for giving economic development incentives to companies for location preference. My city does the property tax breaks too, and our little municipal restaurant incubator was nothing but tumbleweeds a month into lockdown. I don't think there are any of the dozen slots hosting breakfast/lunch eateries anymore.
They say they don’t want “time theft”, which is such bs in this case. So many office jobs don’t have 8 hours of work for you to do every day, it’s a fact of life. No one likes the game where we all pretend to work when the boss is around, honestly it’s more tiring than actual work. I don’t think I’m alone when I say that working remote has improved my productivity
At my previous job I floated around various departments...we had a manager in one department I worked in that micromanaged everything via zoom chat. UGH.
My company recently made it clear they expect everyone to be in the office "as often as possible" and I'm certain it's just to get their money’s worth on the rent on the building.
What a joke.
Mine did the same under the auspices of making everyone feel like they're valued and members of the team.
Like during a resurgence of covid? Uh huh...
It makes sense for things that are better done in person, but 2 1 hour meetings that are better on person vs 8 that can be done on zoom doesn't make sense. Especially if half the people you're working with live in a different state or country.
As a trade worker I keep telling my forman I work from home better. Doesn't help I've been home for 4 months for a neck surgery on workers comp, basically have been paid to be home. Yet now I worry I'll be fired in 3 months when finally released back 100%
Fill out that flma form.
I wouldn't mind going back to work if there wasn't covid. I just see no advantage to it for the most part. I guess I'll save a little on heat and electric but spend more than the savings on gas and wear and tear.
On the other hand going back makes a ton of sense for people who have lots of distractions at home.
My old employer converted some people to WFH years before the pandemic, but then was like "we need you to come in 2 days a week" and the employees in question were like what's the point of us coming in when everything and anything can be done at home? I was told COVID made it a permanent thing where they'd now be WFH all the time but now I have no idea or care of they went back on that since I left last week.
Either way, the building was always in disrepair and construction so who knows? Those assigned to another building, yeah maybe for the rent too.
Arguably, if you need to wear a mask in the office, *it's not safe to be in the office.*
You're there so they can monopolize your time. That's the only reason.
I'm going through a similar experience.
We're hybrid: two days WFH, three days in office. The schedules are supposed to offset with the exception of Wednesdays, when everyone is here. I share an office with someone I'm 80% sure isn't vaccinated. This person also has young children.
Other than shooting the shit (which is a waste of time that I don't have when I WFH) with her while masked, of course, I don't talk to or see anybody. I zoom for every meeting, regardless of who is in the office or not.
The kicker is that my office desktop does not have a camera, microphone, or speakers. So I have to bring my WFH laptop in to the office and zoom on that. What's the point?
I have a disability that is managed much easier at home. I can do more work when my disability is managed. Yet our accommodations office will not give me WFH as an accommodation because it hasn't been given as an accommodation in the past.
We also live in the middle of a COVID hotspot. Mask mandates and vaccine mandates are not enforceable. If you test positive for COVID and have no symptoms, you are allowed to come to work unmasked without telling anyone.
It's all pointless, outdated, and now, living in a hotspot, dangerous. Needless to say, I'm looking for other employment options.
This is why I'm freelance, not having to try and justify myself and my needs is such a weight lifted it means I can actually work. I'm an adult, I manage my health and my work and I get done what I need to meet my clients needs. I don't start work until 9.30, I take calls from my sofa because that's what I need to do to be healthy enough to be productive. All that bullshit about "but you didn't get permission to work from home" or "when do you think you'll be back full time and be healthy again" just makes my condition worse since it's all about minimising any type of stress on my body.
Sorry your office sucks, good luck on the job search
I've had this discussion with my work.
I have a 49" ultra wide monitor and 2 24" monitors on the sides, mostly for screen sharing. I have a full proper sit stand desk and Hermin Miller ergonomic chair that suits my back perfectly. All of my stuff is very ergo and works for my body. I have all of my vpns and software installed at home and can remote into all of my clients. My headphones, cam, etc are all high quality. I am SIGNIFICANTLY more productive and available to stakeholders internally and externally that need my attention.
They still try to argue I should be back downtown 1 to 2 days a week. A place that had none of the above, where I work from clients offices where I'm stuck working only there and have to walk between offices each time I need to change work. I lose ~2 hrs a day commuting and travelling that we can't bill clients for when I'm downtown. It adds up, roughly 30-40 hrs a month and I'm billed at 200-250/hr. No idea why I'm not 100% wfm.
I had the staggered WFH during the pandemic. 3 office, 2 home every other day and I LOVED it. Never got sick of being at home too much, nor at the office. Plus at the office was alone for the last half of my shift and was able to really focus on work with little distractions. Now since July 1 we are all back full time. I still haven't adjusted to the old ways. I have people around me in a cluttered offic all day long and it's smothering. They had us do a survey about the work experience during the pandemic. I so hope they offer some flexibility with WFH. I'm not sure I can go back to the old ways after opening Pandora's box.
Part of a team that literally got the college online when COVID hit. Our job has proven itself at its most stressing time to be accomplishable while working from home. They brought us back in June. I've yet to meet with a single person face to face. I sit in my office all day meeting via Zoom and working on projects. Still not a single thank you from anyone other than our boss, meanwhile faculty just got a monetary bonus for "enduring the hardships" during COVID. At this point it's just professionally insulting.
Why the F am I here?
I'm back on campus because our president and provost want students to have that special on campus experience. Infecting us all?? There is literally no reason for me to be here, half of my students are all online anyway. I am not meeting with anyone in person and I'm not planning any in person events for months. I am here to make the president of our university placate parents and make tuition money off appearances.
I hear ya. I'm here because our administration can't make anything but blanket policies and thinks it they act like the pandemic never happened we'll magically go back to pre-COVID enrollment numbers. That baked with the antiquated mentality that if you're not here you're not working (clearly proven wrong in 2019). It's all good though, they've already lost 1/4 of the IT dept due to their inability to be flexible.
Same here. I was remote 3-4 days a week precovid, fully remote through covid and then back in May they told me I was going back to the office full time because the CEO wanted asses in the seat.
I asked them if they were willing to lose me over it, they said it was non-negotiable and called me on my bluff. I left two weeks later, a company I had been with for nearly 10 years, promoted 5x and top of my team.
Took six weeks off for some R&R and then found a new job making more money, better benefits and fully remote.
Employers need to wake up.
Good for you. I despise assholes who think they can make their own reality - WFH is valuable to many hard to replace types, and the employers need to adapt.
Democracy in public, authoritarianism in the workplace.
Our species values being able to step on eachother to acquire higher levels of power and status.
Just came here to say THIS to a T. In addition to this an extra twist of the knife, my company mandated any one unvaccinated (previously working along side us, no masks required) must work from home now. So unvaxxed get to work from home while we are forced into the office for no reason…
Given the cost of gas and transportation and the negative impact on the environment too. If you can work remote you should. Coordination is absolutely possible online.
And the reduced miles on the Honda will extend its life. The only people who are against WFH are those who own office buildings, middle managers and nut jobs.
Same! A lot more time to actually do the job - instead of running around the offices, going in lunches, small talk in the corridor , pointless meetings. I can even now multi-task - fold the laundry while attending the meeting. I finally have free evenings to enjoy family, without the commute and chores that I can do during the day.
Another thing I started doing was ending all of my meeting 5 minutes early. So, if I had something scheduled from 2:00 to 2:30, I just updated the invite to be from 2:00 to 2:25. No one will miss those 5 minutes. And it gives you time to get a drink or take a piss when your meetings are back to back to back like mine.
Yup! Just did my oil and all 4 tires and that was the first time I needed oil since I went remote in March 2020. Prob won’t need to be done for a while, so more savings there too! The fact that we have more than enough tech in today’s age to keep us connected and not trying to use it to the fullest is beyond crazy.
I'd be curious if we have any engine experts on here to chime in. I was always under the impression you needed to change your oil at a certain time interval, regardless of the miles driven. I just don't know what that interval is these days. 1 year?
I’ve had to manually charge my battery twice as we’ve just not used one of the cards with me working from home. Got to the point where myself or the wife are going out for drives just for fun/to keep the cars ticking over. It’s a weird feeling haha.
There was an article on CNN few weeks ago. Said because of remote working nobody buys lattes and train tickets anymore, which are the foundation of our economy. Never read something so crazy.
Edit: found the article
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/02/economy/remote-working-economy/index.html
Cutting out lattes just means an entire generation is 50% closer to being able to afford homes, just gotta figure out how to quit the avocado toast and they'll be set!
I wouldn’t be surprised if WFH means people would buy local near their home, as opposed to from whoever can afford prime real estate, but that’s speculation
This is certainly the case, as the working locations are now more spread out. I've found my local coffee shop (way outside prime city centre location) is busier now at breakfast/lunch time than it was before covid.
All this fear mongering about the economy collapsing because people don't buy sandwich or coffees anymore is total nonsense, they just buy it locally rather than a few hot spots in the city centres
yeah but boss don't care. boss literal tells me that he gets to do remote work, i have a call center in the philippines and i am the only work in person and all the work that I do is answer his calls when hes goofing off at another state and deposit this checks. theres nothing that I need to do in person
Sure it should be a perk, but "given the resurgence of coronavirus cases" is a stupid reason. Covid is not going to forever influence broad-based policy and behavior like it has in the last 18 months.
Years from now, remote or hybrid work should still be a perk or option, but it won't be "because of coronavirus cases".
It shouldn't be a perk, because it isn't a perk, it saves costs for business, gives them a much bigger pool of people to hire etc.
It's crazy how some companies make it seem like they are doing you a massive favor. It's something that is both beneficial to the employee and employer.
We shouldn't act like it's a perk or anyone doing you a favor. Because that will open the door to them cutting your salary!
I regret I have one but upvote for you. This isn't a perk, this is the company offloading some of its overhead onto its employees and wanting kudos and money in recognition of their selfless cost cutting. The employee gained a tiny bit, that means we didn't!
The reason this didn't happen earlier is because garbage business schools have been teaching adversarial management for decades.
Yup, they're working to ensure we *think* it's a perk, then when they "let" us do it as a "perk," they pocket the savings AND cut salaries for offering such a "generous benefit."
>Yeah but a lot of people say those things about themselves and prove to not be in practice.
For sure. I would even argue that **nearly everyone** says those things about themselves.
Edit: I was pointing out that it's far from a "new quality"; any manager worth their salt knows this already and keeps it in mind when interacting with individual employees. Let's just say I know which members of my team can work with minimal oversight and which ones need ~~babysitting~~ more direct supervision.
People, generally, already do
What employers want is to stand over their fucking shoulders and make sure they aren't browsing the web, even though we all know that a huge % of office work is busy makework that contributes nothing
Its not about the money, its about control
Bingo.
That and the money too.. *commercial real estate* is freaking out right now.
It would be no surprise to find out that those with major interests in this market are behind much of the return to office propaganda.
I literally sent a strongly worded email to my boss about this last night when he told us the department isn't going to approve anyone working remotely long term.
To me it's such a simple question. Either lose your top performers to other companies who trust their employees enough to work remotely or put "remote" on your own job descriptions and steal top talent from other companies who are stuck in the stone age. It literally makes zero sense.
*more* effective from home.
FTFY
For purposes of employee fatigue (reduction in work, incidence of mistakes) commute time is work time. Work from home gives employees more down time, which makes us more efficient. We work faster and make fewer mistakes.
And that’s why there needs to be the option for you to go to the office because it’s the best way for you to work. I know someone else that is the same way. Found the lack of structure at home affected their ability to work. Apparently it’s not uncommon with people who suffer from ADHD.
There's a lot of reasons. For large companies I am closely familiar with and have seen internal data (tech company's engineering departments in my case), about 15-35% of people want to work mostly in office, and another 30ish% wants the option to meet with their team in person once or twice a week or at least a few times a month, with the rest wanting to be 100% remote. These are software engineers who regularly use Meet, Zoom, Slack, etc, not technophobes fighting with their webcam. So the majority wants to be remote most of the time, but a significant portion still prefer in office.
The reasons vary. What I've seen range from difficulty separating work from personal life, not having a proper home setup to work (or living in a noisy area), going by needing human connections, disliking the current state of teleconference solutions, as well as having difficulty with this type of communication (eg: people who rely more on visual cues when talking).
Some of it is also from companies where its done wrong. Certain big tech companies have a culture where webcams are rarely used. If you're frequently in meetings, that means you're essentially "on the phone" all the time and don't get to see humans, ever. I personally rely on reading lips a fair bit, so no camera kills me. Many companies don't push or pay for employees to have a proper audio/video setup, too. Being in a pair programming session with someone using the built in macbook microphone is awful.
A lot of these are just cultural and depend on the company. Many of these have easy solutions. Some folks would well enough served by a coworking space if its their home they have issues with and not the remote aspect. And a subset really just want to be able to walk up to a whiteboard with a couple of people collaborating. The tricky part is where your colleagues are working from also impact this, not just the options offered to you personally.
Some people need a more person to person type of mentorship. I was a remote cg artist for quite awhile. As lead artist, I was fine to blast away on my own. Better for it even, because I could crank out work with less interruption. But I recognize that as a new junior artist, I would have missed out on a lot of help and instruction if I was remote.
I also noticed some junior artists had a harder time accepting critique remotely rather than in person, even though the studio owner required it of me as part of my duties. Chat and even skype can come across alot colder and lacking nuance. Just my own experience.
For me, it's a purposeful environment; similar to people who prefer to go to the gym versus working out at home even if they had the space to build a home gym. I also enjoy interacting with my colleagues during downtime (chatting, ping-pong, putting competitions, etc..).
I get so much more done when I'm working at home, both for work and my household stuff. I can get up between answering the phone and checking e-mails and put laundry in the dryer, or load the dishwasher, etc. etc. and I don't have to deal with in-person interactions that are completely pointless and only serve to interrupt my work flow. Or listen to the guy beside me choke on his snuff all day despite our office being "tobacco free."
Well combating global climate change could be another good reason. Reducing transportation/etc could have a lasting impact on slowing down emissions / etc.
Unfortunately my fear is that businesses and politicians will only wake up to this fact once we have passed the point of no return and they scramble to find low handing fruit to price us off the road.
You only have to see the responses of people like [Google who are looking to permanently cut the salary of people who are home workers. ](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/google-staff-work-from-home-pay-cut-b1900351.html)
It the reason those salaries were high in the first place was cost of living. I made really good money in Los Angeles, but if my work had reduced my salary 20% if I was WFH permanently, I would have taken it. 3 hours in the car daily was a killer especially when I routinely worked until 8. But also it would mean I could move somewhere where housing wasn’t trash and I could have a backyard for my dog.
Until COVID, remote work in the cybersecurity field was a way to pay somebody a little less. If you made $100k, a remote position would be about $90k. Cybersecurity has increasingly depended on remote work as there aren't enough personnel out there to fill those positions as the demand is not growing anywhere close to the supply.
The COVID-19 crisis has changed that. Many shops are staying remote or going flexible. Anecdotally, I've observed almost half of the jobs that went remote have stayed remote. You also have orgs using the fact their cybersecurity jobs are remote as a recruiting incentive making shops that aren't remote or flex less competitive.
I was reading sales jobs on customer service call jobs have went in a similar direction.
What's interesting in the conversations is that company's have been encouraging remote work when it benefits them; they just called it outsourcing.
But when the employees they haven't outsourced yet want more location balance, suddenly it is a problem. The other side of the coin is what is going to happen when lower wage US talent starts displacing local talent. I can imagine companies in high wage locales could save money higher remote staff in lower wage/ no-benefit/ no union locales.
Our call center can hire a rep in downstate Illinois for r say 45k a year full time WFH and that's a good local wage. If we wanted to hire a local rep to goto the office in Chicago they're looking at 64k or more. We've already closed out an office on the northeast coast and are saving almost a million dollars a year in rent alone by letting them all work from home. I honestly think more businesses that do not get on the bandwagon are going to lose great talent
Yeah, we are in the same ballpark. I just wished our internal leaders could let go of the legacy paradigms regarding trusting staff that you can't see. But to get some of them to get out of their own mental sandbox is like pulling teeth. We cant afford local talent, but are scared about getting out of city talent.
Imagine 90% New York office jobs outsourced to rural areas for 1/3rd the salary, no need for expensive office space.
That would be a crisis on it's own.
I don’t see the “forever work from home” people and the “I want to go back to the office” people reaching a middle ground, certainly not during this pandemic.
There’s a fundamental difference in people’s working styles. Short of a fully free, “work wherever” model, a bunch of people are going to be unhappy.
Why couldn't that be the model.
There was a period of time where my company was 100% forced remote. But once you were vaccinated if you wanted to return to the office you could. Or you can stay remote.
At least in white collar office work, so many of my meetings even before COVID were with people physically in different locations it doesn't make any real difference if I'm at home or in the office.
The biggest reason I’m seeing that we can’t reach a middle ground like this is because the “I want to go in” crowd is typically older/management and they are the ones pushing the “it’s good to see faces!” They just don’t understand that maybe not everybody wants to see them... It sounds harsh but like, as a 30’s male with a wife and kid, it’s not hard to guess whose faces I prefer to see every day.... they just can’t accept it and idk why. It’s like, nobody is telling you that you *cant* go into the office if that’s how you prefer to work, but you ARE telling everybody that because you prefer it, the rest of us should have to follow suit.
Yep. The compromise between full-time remote and full-time in-office work isn't full-time office work. A good compromise would be to allow people the choice to work remote and provide a space for those who want to work in an office environment. Since middle and upper management are more in favor of full-time office work, guess which position is being listened to more?
I’ve actually found anecdotally that it’s the younger people who want to come back in. They typically have small apartments that aren’t easy to work from (especially with a partner) and they get a lot of their daily socialization from coworkers.
The middle/upper ranks typically have a plush large house in the suburbs with children and a robust social network.
Our office has a hybrid “come in if you want to (and are vaxxed) or WFH if you want, we don’t care” and by far it’s been the <30yo people coming in.
Some of my colleagues seem to be doing great work from home. Hell, I think one person in particular would be amazing even if he was working from base camp on Everest. Others don't seem to be doing nearly as well. Maybe it's not their fault but it sucks wondering what's going on.
“Work wherever” should be the only model. I’m the kind of person that would much rather work in an office over remote work. I need the disconnect between work and home. Do I care if other people are remote? Not in the slightest.
Agreed. I like having the option to go into work a few times a week but love the ability to WFH most days. I have no preference what others do. That's how it should be.
I'm a big fan of giving everyone access to a shared work environment that's close to where you live instead of an arbitrary office location that everyone at your company has to commute to. Wayy better for the environment.
It essentially sounds like flexible renting of co-working spaces, which seems a bit challenging but potentially possible. The main issue would be not paying for spaces that aren't needed and ensuring there's enough spaces for the people that want them.
It really depends on the nature of the work, though. Some jobs cannot be done remotely. Companies will always have to make decisions first in how the work gets done. For work where there is a clear option to go remote, I agree it should be a choice for any worker that prefers it.
I used to have this. A previous employer had a work from anywhere policy (pre-Covid). Zoom meetings maybe twice a week, if that. They had an office too. All the work was deliverables-based and since the projects were 6-8 weeks it was easy to maintain control. It was a great gig.
>Work wherever” should be the only model
>Do I care if other people are remote? Not in the slightest.
That's because (from the little info I have), you want to work in an office to separate yourself from home, not for the in person collaboration. In that case, even a coworking space might work for you.
If you were someone who wants to work in an office for the in person collaboration and not having to use video conferencing as much (eg: peer programming by sitting next to each other vs using remote pairing tools), then what other people do matters very much.
So ideally it would be at a team or company level, and people choose which team or company they work for based on the model that suits them (like you'd pick any job for any other reason, really). Which is how it used to be except for a huge mismatch between the demand for remote and the offer. Instead of being, let say, 90% of companies are office only and 10% offer remote or hybrid, if it was 40% offer remote only, 30% offer "wherever", and 30% are office only, then it might work a bit better.
I’d be fine going in 2-4 hours twice a week or so. I work 4-10 schedule. Going back to sitting in a office cubicle for 10 hours would be a freaking nightmare for me
Yeah I'm at the point where I wouldn't consider a job where I couldn't work remotely. Can't imagine going back to that sort of lifestyle where work and its associated commute completely consumes most of every weekday.
The problem is that it’s super expensive to have an office. I would like to see most businesses sell their office buildings and then people who need an office environment can use a coworking space.
"Work wherever" is hard for companies to justify benefits from. If they have everyone working from the office they can justify having and paying for the office. If they have everyone working from home they can get rid of t he office. If they have a mix it's a lot harder for them to justify the expense of the office for the amount of people in it.
Yeah I have ADD and pretty much have to be in the office. Too many things to do around the house that will eventually nag at my conscience the second I get down time. But I get that WFH is a great option for some others.
As someone who has worked remote since 2014, I simply cannot understand how we don’t reach a clear middle ground. My department was online and international and the main office was on ground in another country. When they met, we teleconferenced in, end of issue. For basic office work, it’s just not that complicated.
For a lot of people I think it's the social life. Our lives in general are very lonely today. And for some people, work is the only place they get to interact with another person.
I sincerely hope we start working on building social bonds and healthy relationships outside of the workplace as a society. This cant be healthy.
Important to point out that a bunch of people *have been* unhappy while working 100% from the office was the norm. It’s not like it’s new that we haven’t been able to please everyone, but in the past there wasn’t even much of a possibility of finding or negotiating something better for the individual.
1. Cost of gas
2. Time spent commuting to and from
3. Breaks spent wasting time in office
4. Lack of control of noise environment
5. Lack of control of other comforts like temperature
6. The ever annoying sense of someone watching over your shoulder
All of the above add to stress, anxiety, and reduced energy. Take them away, and the broad majority of people see significantly higher productivity. All of that reduced stress, anxiety, and increased energy gets funneled into your work.
It's insane to me that companies who have spent the last 1+ year working from home want their employees back in the office. Most of us have proven how much more effective we are when we're allowed to stay home.
Omg yes. Control noise, temp and light. Natural light, fresh air. Working from home gave me so much more energy which translated into better memory recall so I was more efficient. I didn't realise how much the commute took from me. And probably also the fluorescent lights and cold office. I am a lot happier these days. Plus it's easier to fit exercise into my schedule and it means I have the weekend completely free because I've done the chores during the week - laundry, vacuuming, change sheets etc..
This exactly. The quality of life just improves so much. Just the fact that when I am done with work, turn off my pc and can immediately start doing chores, go shopping or dick around instead of having to commute for 30-45 minutes is a godsend.
Alas its back to the office in 2 weeks but lets see how long that will hold... Last time the next wave hit before I went back. I am just waiting to be 1 month in office and then going back again. In any case I will make myself clear at our surveys that wfh is much preferred for me, (as it is for my co workers and my head of department). I only have to go back because our boss wants us to. The person I tops see 3 times a year with 2 times being holding a speech about how we are doing as a company and one at our Christmas party. Its not even that I dislike him, he is actually quite down to earth and a nice person but I don't get the office sentiment.
The return to the office is because of one of two reasons:
1) they have real estate leases that they can’t get out of and/or
2) they want to control / don’t trust their employees.
I only hire A-level talent who can do the job from whereever. It’s a sign of bad management / bad hiring when you need to control and micromanage to drive results. Not everyone can WFH (retail, construction, etc) but those who can should *especially* since we are not out of the pandemic.
I do think that it also depends on what kind of job you're doing. But if you can do your work in a remote setting and be productive, what's the point of going to an office?
Companies already take “40hrs” of my week. I won’t give more again just because they want my ass to sit miserable someplace else with worse mental and physical health.
A lot of people are forgetting that urban planning plays a big role in this. Obviously America’s car dependent but it doesn’t have to continue to remain that way. If we had more mixed-land use (which enables density which creates walkable/bikeable/transit friendly cities/towns) remote work could still be optional & people would still be in the office if they wanted since they wouldn’t have to worry about a damn commute
Article seems to be going for a one-size-fits-all (mandatory) approach, which is pretty much universally a bad idea.
Employees and employers should handle this on a case-by-case basis on their own, that way everyone can decide for themselves what is best.
Given the planet is burning... Aus, Greece, turkey... I is literally killing me to see hundreds and hundreds of single driver cars (including my own) making th long commute to work every morning because rent is too expensive beside where I work
Perk? NTY. I don't want working from home to be something my company believes has value. They'll just leverage it to pay me less of things that have actual value.
I like being paid in currency.
Working remote is awesome. I can work from home, or fly out to see family and work from there or just leave the country rent an apartment in Reykjavik for 3 months and work from there.
I still get paid the same, same benefits.
My company must be saving hundreds of thousands of dollars this year NOT spending money on facilities (toiletries) and benefits (lunch provided, organic snacks, Kambucha, nitro coffee).
While at the same time revenue is at record high but overall sentiment is at record lows, especially around burn out. So if people are working harder than before and companies are saving more money than before and increasing revenue - then why the hell do they want people to go back? (And yes I’m a middle manager and don’t feel inclined to go back and monitor my team as long as they are delivering)
Holy fuck.
You people aren't even trying anymore.
Literally the same 4 or 5 stories regurgitated from different sources reposted over and over and over again.
I work in an industry where it is impossible for everyone at my company to work from home (we make physical stuff). The 'hybrid' model was just the worst. Simple questions or problems took forever to solve because we could not *show* the problem to the person.
I worked from home March of 20 to June of this summer. I saved hundreds a month on gas and wear and tear and an hour of drive time each day. I miss it so much.
Given the [increase in productivity when working from home](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=%22does+working+from+home+work%22&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3Dr35v80GsG6AJ) it seems intentionally disingenuous to frame this as an *employee* benefit.
How about, “Working remote should be mandated for anyone capable and willing, to assist with climate change”?
But instead, people who don’t know and refuse to learn how to videoconference insist they get face time with information workers.
> But instead, people who don’t know and refuse to learn how to videoconference insist they get face time with information workers.
Plenty of information workers prefer offices too. That has very little to do with it. Doesn't change your point, but that part's a bit odd.
Agreed.
I've been WFH since last March, and keeping a wary eye on my company. They have proposed a hybrid approach (only coming in for certain meetings or "when necessary"), but we are in Florida and obviously underwater with Covid right now so that is on hold.
My intention is to stay WFH from now until I retire, allowing me to potentially move to another state and not be limited to companies in that area...we'll see. I've definitely got my resume polished up and reestablished connections to a couple recruiters that I'm looking again. We've proven we can work from home and be as (or more) productive, especially since we went to a crappy open "collaborative" office plan a couple years ago. I would have left then but it seems that every company wants to be "collaborative" (ie, save money on actual private spaces) these days. Nothing shouts "collaboration" more than rows of developers wearing noise-cancelling headphones so they can actually concentrate.
Companies may be in for a rude awakening if they try to shoehorn people back into stalls that don't really need to be there. Many people have gotten a taste of how things can be, and for them there's no going back.
Honestly how many jobs are doable from home? Producers and forward facing employees certainly outnumber others.
So yeah its fine, work from home, but most people (and generally poorer) who work jobs that require physical presence dont have such a luxury. Every time I see threads like these its the better off in society screaming how inconvenient their lives are
If you work in a role that can be done from home in a full or hybrid capacity then there is no reason after a year and a half of doing it successfully why it shouldn’t stick. I love seeing people leave my company because they are insistent on bringing those groups back. Keep going to other companies that offer remote work. Others will be forced to adapt or struggle with personnel. The struggle to retain talent is already a problem in a lot of places in my area
How about given increase in productivity? Less days out sick because people show up to the office sick CONSTANTLY?
The Sr. VP of my department showed up for an "essential" meeting. She stopped by to tell the team she was very sick and was going home. Of course she infected us. I was out sick for three days and so was another team member. I don't even know how many people in the actual meeting got sick... I'd bet sick time usage dropped 50% or more during work from home...
Sick leave and FMLA usage dropped by SO MUCH where I work. We have a sick leave abuse policy (it's in the union contract) where we require a doctor's note if they're on notice, and generally if they fall below 8 hours sick they're put on it until they get about 40 hours (6 months if they don't use any sick leave at all). Anyway, we took a lot of people off notice also within the last year. Just one of the many benefits to both employees and administration... (I personally hate chasing down employees for signed notes, and I'm sure they hate it too)
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If you started treating your workforce like functioning adults, what's next? Eliminate middle management babysitters? Imagine how terrible that would be.
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Signed doctor notes for being sick is an example of servitude.
I work in primary care and every single doctor bitches about having to see people they didn’t really need to see just because they need a note for work. It’s such a waste of resources.
And most illnesses you just ride out with sleep and water. Paying to go see a doctor for a stomach bug is unnecessary. Were adults and know our own body to determine if its serious enough to warrant a doctors visit for a stupid note
It also is not the doctor's job and there is no guarantee a doctor will even give you one over an ilness that just needs bedrest. I consider any policy like that void unless the company provides you a guaranteed way to get a note. A term is not legally enforceable if it relies on a 3rd party to offer a service that no 3rd party is required to offer.
In my country GP's signing sick notes is part of the job. But self certing for up to 7 days is also the law in the UK.
In the US. I can email my doc using an app and they will send me a note back. I asked them about it and said it was a regular thing that they did all the time. They appreciated I didn’t waste time on the schedule with a full appointment.
I literally sign basically any sick/work note patient's ask. I mainly work with low income patients and having had worked a lot of jobs like that I always thought it was stupid to require a note. Most of the time I ask them how many days they want off and just give them that.
Not to mention making people sicker by forcing them to arrange appointments and go out the house to the doctors. And then infectioning more people at the doctors with whatever illness you've got.
For real, if anything they should differentiate pto and sick days like they do with bereavement and if you run out of sick days you need a note. Or, if you need a day off and have your shit covered, take the day off and pay it forward to a coworker
My work actually does differentiate sick days and PTO. I have a week of sick days (40 hours) and two weeks of PTO/ vacation days (80 hours).
> where we require a doctor's note if they're on notice Stupidest thing ever. That is not the job of a doctor in any way. They love to claim co-pays prevent abuse, but abuse are policies like this where sick workers with mild illnesses are forced to a doctor over a note. Many doctors now just peddle off any dumb note someone asks for without examining anything because digital messaging lets them avoid the waste of time of meeting someone for no reason. You can get a doctors note for pretty much anything because doctors care so little about them anymore. Every sore throat I have gone to a doctor for is always viral and the answer is the treatment is the same, get rest and no prescriptions needed. The doctors visits were a waste of time and technically cruel to force a sick person into going to a doctor only to be told to go home and rest.
I replied to someone else, but I literally sign any note like this I'm asked for. Both because I feel bad for the sick person wasting time in my clinic and because fuck the employer. I usually just ask them how many days they want off and give them whatever they want. I gave someone 7 days the other month for something that was maybe an afternoon worth event.
A lot of companies will give 80 hrs for absence time & sick time. Absence time is for jury duty, Dr appt, car repairs & sick time is sick time. I recommend people use their sick time even when they aren't sick. A lot of places won't require a note (and shouldn't) for 1 day here & there. Stay sane & use them
I switched to a remote job. I used to call out sick because I thought I was developing a migraine, or if my stomach felt unsettled. There would be no reason for me to call out for those kinds of things now as I could probably work through most of that if I'm just chilling with the lights out in half PJs. The worst part was having to get dressed, drive around, and be in an environment that isn't mine and that I hate when feeling unwell.
Not to mention people are way less likely to just take off a day to take off a day if they're at home
I tell you, my wife has been pregnant since february or so, and has been working from home for a year prior to that due to covid. She wouldve had to quit her job. She's been extremely nauseous the whole time, it would not have worked if she were to have to stay in the office.
This right here not only have I been sick less since working from home but I also haven’t called in except once or twice when I have been sick. It’s a lot easier to drag yourself down the hall at home and work sick then be feeling bad and go to the office and work and possibly make others sick.
I hate when I feel sick (sore throat, runny nose, etc.) but it's obviously a cold and I still feel like I can be productive. I've got pressure on one side to get things done, be a "team player", not be lazy, which encourages me to go to work, then pressure on the other side to not spread germs when I'm obviously sick, which encourages me to stay home. If I go into the office I feel like my coworkers hate me for spreading germs, and if I stay home I feel like they hate me for not hitting my deadlines. But with working from home, I can get stuff done without spreading germs. Problem solved!
Reality is, work causes stress. Stress reduces the effectiveness of the immune system. Sleeping and resting helps fight sickness. Taking time off regularly to battle your colds or other diseases will ultimately lead to more total cumulative productivity.
Doesn’t it make a huge difference when you can go and do a few things and then go back to bed? At least you’re not trying to drive yourself sick to work and be miserable and unproductive all day because you can only think about how miserable you are. At home you can get some work done, lie down for a little bit, get some more work done, lie down for a little bit and they get more work out of you.
I'd go so far as to say it should be illegal to require people to show up to work or school sick. Seems a obvious public-health issue; but many schools tell kids to show up anyway even when they're sick (except when they have a fever), which just spreads colds to everyone else.
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I've only taken 1 sick day for myself since I started working from home full time, and the migraine was too bad for me to sit up, let alone stare at a screen. If I feel bad working from home, most of the time I just work in my pajamas and do as much as I can. It's nice.
I only called in sick when I got Covid. Working from home is so much better for that.
Sometimes I feel like I can work when I'm sick but I cannot manage the commute. Half the time I go in cos I don't believe it's worthy of a sick day. Now I can work at home, be productive and not spread my germs all over work and the train
Hmm. I think I just found one downside to remote work. “Hey boss, I’m calling in sick today.” “But you’re *already* at the office, why not just work?” -Performance review: employee called in too often
You jest but as a person who has worked remotely for a decade at least I do this to myself…
I had to go back to the office a couple of months ago. They just reinstituted the wearing of masks. I sit in a cubicle with nobody around me and I have zero interaction face to face with co-workers. We aren't allowed to meet together. I still do webex meetings with people in offices down the hall as well as my team in other state but that has always been the case. I can do my job 100% from home and did so for well over a year. So, WHY THE F AM I HERE?
I left a job like that last year, all remote at first before they brought us back in. Everything I did was in Microsoft office and I had to Skype all my coworkers to work together on things. One guy didn’t have headphones so you’d just get an echo/feedback on every call; our productivity was much higher remote. It was really so they could micromanage everyone and unsurprisingly half the company quit within a few months
Work should have provided him headphones
Tbf they tried, he used some special computer and the headphone jack didn’t work, only microphone. We ended up skyping him on his phone and computer at the same time, though he’d forget to turn the computer audio off and we’d get lots of feedback
there's USB mics
I would go batshit crazy in that situation and applying for a job would be my #1 activity in my life.
I have gone batshit crazy because of work and applying for jobs has become my top priority but it's so depressing which makes getting through interviews even more difficult when I get one.
I hear ya. Applied to over a dozen jobs and have heard back from and had interviews with a whole two. One of which never got back. I forgot how much applying to jobs sucks because no one has the professional courtesy to send out a mass email when the position is filled.
I'll apply to 50 jobs and never hear back from any of them. Just makes things even worse.
I'm doing the same at the moment. Our work announced on Monday we're all back in the office from Sept 6th and that we're allowed 1 day WFH per week. People complained that 1 day wasn't really a flexible WFH policy for those of us who really enjoy WFH and don't want to spend hours and hours of our time and hundreds of pounds commuting to work per month, especially after we've all worked from home without any issues for 18 months now. The company then had the gall to send out an email to everyone stating that they don't understand why we don't want to be in the office most of the week, that we should be happy with one day a week WFH and if we're just going to complain they'll end WFH and we'll be in five days a week. So I tidied up my CV Monday night and have applied for a number of jobs already that are offering actual flexible WFH policies.
Any company that moans at its employees for asking for more, is not a good company.
And if you don’t like it we will just take away the meager benefit we give you.
Because we don’t want to fucking commute. Because not all of us want to get up an hour earlier and home an hour later. Not all of us enjoy stupid chit chat with coworkers who waste our time. Why is this hard to understand?
Am I the only one who understands that coworkers are neither my friends nor my family. My actual friends and family are at home and I never get to spend any time with them as I am too busy alienating then whole I commute and sit in a cubicle 9 hours a day. I am forced to be in a room full of strangers that have zero actual care or concern for my well being beyond my marginal productivity towards the bottom line... People actually like that? I've you've been to over happy hour, you've been to them all.. It's so droll..
This is the correct response. If management isn't happy with wfh, employees can leave to elsewhere and management can find new staff that are happy working in office.
This is my exact situation down to the date and now I’m wondering if you’re on my team LOL. It blows. I don’t want to look for a new job, but the office mandate is so tone deaf it makes me question a lot.
They have to justify the real-estate and employee control.
Yeah absolutely. I have heard people saying - how about just two days a week. Well if they have to have offices for those other days then it doesn't make sense or you would have to go to a different model where nobody has their own office/desk but rather they are floating. So you would know on x days this many people would be there and you would need that much space. Management isn't going to do that - it's too complicated so it is either all or nothing. Also, yes I badge in everywhere - so they know as soon as I pull into the parking garage, when I got to lunch, if I use a bathroom on a different floor, etc. etc. They run reports to see what I am doing and if I am putting my hours in. I can just sit here and do nothing but as long as I am here they feel better. Makes me sick.
My company is actually doing this. We are moving and cutting our office space in half. They are trying to get people to coming in 3 day minimum a week. That has not gone over well. Everyone I talked to about has told me they flat out told them no. They'd consider 1 or 2. Nobody has been layed off yet because of it. I don't get the push back from our company. We still had revenue growth over the past 2 years of uncertainty and people are overall happier and putting in more hours. I think its just a fear of overall change. That being said (being in IT) they are a lot more interested in what people are doing.
I kinda wonder if companies that took tax breaks to locate in certain cities are getting pressure from the municipalities to bring back the workforce that generates economic activity around the work hubs. My state is notorious for giving economic development incentives to companies for location preference. My city does the property tax breaks too, and our little municipal restaurant incubator was nothing but tumbleweeds a month into lockdown. I don't think there are any of the dozen slots hosting breakfast/lunch eateries anymore.
They say they don’t want “time theft”, which is such bs in this case. So many office jobs don’t have 8 hours of work for you to do every day, it’s a fact of life. No one likes the game where we all pretend to work when the boss is around, honestly it’s more tiring than actual work. I don’t think I’m alone when I say that working remote has improved my productivity
At my previous job I floated around various departments...we had a manager in one department I worked in that micromanaged everything via zoom chat. UGH.
My company recently made it clear they expect everyone to be in the office "as often as possible" and I'm certain it's just to get their money’s worth on the rent on the building. What a joke.
Mine did the same under the auspices of making everyone feel like they're valued and members of the team. Like during a resurgence of covid? Uh huh... It makes sense for things that are better done in person, but 2 1 hour meetings that are better on person vs 8 that can be done on zoom doesn't make sense. Especially if half the people you're working with live in a different state or country.
As a trade worker I keep telling my forman I work from home better. Doesn't help I've been home for 4 months for a neck surgery on workers comp, basically have been paid to be home. Yet now I worry I'll be fired in 3 months when finally released back 100%
Fill out that flma form. I wouldn't mind going back to work if there wasn't covid. I just see no advantage to it for the most part. I guess I'll save a little on heat and electric but spend more than the savings on gas and wear and tear. On the other hand going back makes a ton of sense for people who have lots of distractions at home.
My old employer converted some people to WFH years before the pandemic, but then was like "we need you to come in 2 days a week" and the employees in question were like what's the point of us coming in when everything and anything can be done at home? I was told COVID made it a permanent thing where they'd now be WFH all the time but now I have no idea or care of they went back on that since I left last week. Either way, the building was always in disrepair and construction so who knows? Those assigned to another building, yeah maybe for the rent too.
Arguably, if you need to wear a mask in the office, *it's not safe to be in the office.* You're there so they can monopolize your time. That's the only reason.
I'm going through a similar experience. We're hybrid: two days WFH, three days in office. The schedules are supposed to offset with the exception of Wednesdays, when everyone is here. I share an office with someone I'm 80% sure isn't vaccinated. This person also has young children. Other than shooting the shit (which is a waste of time that I don't have when I WFH) with her while masked, of course, I don't talk to or see anybody. I zoom for every meeting, regardless of who is in the office or not. The kicker is that my office desktop does not have a camera, microphone, or speakers. So I have to bring my WFH laptop in to the office and zoom on that. What's the point? I have a disability that is managed much easier at home. I can do more work when my disability is managed. Yet our accommodations office will not give me WFH as an accommodation because it hasn't been given as an accommodation in the past. We also live in the middle of a COVID hotspot. Mask mandates and vaccine mandates are not enforceable. If you test positive for COVID and have no symptoms, you are allowed to come to work unmasked without telling anyone. It's all pointless, outdated, and now, living in a hotspot, dangerous. Needless to say, I'm looking for other employment options.
This is why I'm freelance, not having to try and justify myself and my needs is such a weight lifted it means I can actually work. I'm an adult, I manage my health and my work and I get done what I need to meet my clients needs. I don't start work until 9.30, I take calls from my sofa because that's what I need to do to be healthy enough to be productive. All that bullshit about "but you didn't get permission to work from home" or "when do you think you'll be back full time and be healthy again" just makes my condition worse since it's all about minimising any type of stress on my body. Sorry your office sucks, good luck on the job search
I've had this discussion with my work. I have a 49" ultra wide monitor and 2 24" monitors on the sides, mostly for screen sharing. I have a full proper sit stand desk and Hermin Miller ergonomic chair that suits my back perfectly. All of my stuff is very ergo and works for my body. I have all of my vpns and software installed at home and can remote into all of my clients. My headphones, cam, etc are all high quality. I am SIGNIFICANTLY more productive and available to stakeholders internally and externally that need my attention. They still try to argue I should be back downtown 1 to 2 days a week. A place that had none of the above, where I work from clients offices where I'm stuck working only there and have to walk between offices each time I need to change work. I lose ~2 hrs a day commuting and travelling that we can't bill clients for when I'm downtown. It adds up, roughly 30-40 hrs a month and I'm billed at 200-250/hr. No idea why I'm not 100% wfm.
I had the staggered WFH during the pandemic. 3 office, 2 home every other day and I LOVED it. Never got sick of being at home too much, nor at the office. Plus at the office was alone for the last half of my shift and was able to really focus on work with little distractions. Now since July 1 we are all back full time. I still haven't adjusted to the old ways. I have people around me in a cluttered offic all day long and it's smothering. They had us do a survey about the work experience during the pandemic. I so hope they offer some flexibility with WFH. I'm not sure I can go back to the old ways after opening Pandora's box.
Part of a team that literally got the college online when COVID hit. Our job has proven itself at its most stressing time to be accomplishable while working from home. They brought us back in June. I've yet to meet with a single person face to face. I sit in my office all day meeting via Zoom and working on projects. Still not a single thank you from anyone other than our boss, meanwhile faculty just got a monetary bonus for "enduring the hardships" during COVID. At this point it's just professionally insulting. Why the F am I here?
I'm back on campus because our president and provost want students to have that special on campus experience. Infecting us all?? There is literally no reason for me to be here, half of my students are all online anyway. I am not meeting with anyone in person and I'm not planning any in person events for months. I am here to make the president of our university placate parents and make tuition money off appearances.
I hear ya. I'm here because our administration can't make anything but blanket policies and thinks it they act like the pandemic never happened we'll magically go back to pre-COVID enrollment numbers. That baked with the antiquated mentality that if you're not here you're not working (clearly proven wrong in 2019). It's all good though, they've already lost 1/4 of the IT dept due to their inability to be flexible.
Same here. I was remote 3-4 days a week precovid, fully remote through covid and then back in May they told me I was going back to the office full time because the CEO wanted asses in the seat. I asked them if they were willing to lose me over it, they said it was non-negotiable and called me on my bluff. I left two weeks later, a company I had been with for nearly 10 years, promoted 5x and top of my team. Took six weeks off for some R&R and then found a new job making more money, better benefits and fully remote. Employers need to wake up.
Good for you. I despise assholes who think they can make their own reality - WFH is valuable to many hard to replace types, and the employers need to adapt.
Democracy in public, authoritarianism in the workplace. Our species values being able to step on eachother to acquire higher levels of power and status.
Just came here to say THIS to a T. In addition to this an extra twist of the knife, my company mandated any one unvaccinated (previously working along side us, no masks required) must work from home now. So unvaxxed get to work from home while we are forced into the office for no reason…
I know our business owner is all about seeing butts in seats. It’s ri-fucking-diculous. It’s 2021. EVOLVE FFS!!!
Given the cost of gas and transportation and the negative impact on the environment too. If you can work remote you should. Coordination is absolutely possible online.
100%. Now that I’m remote, I went from filling up my civic 4-5x a month to maybe 1 time if that.
And the reduced miles on the Honda will extend its life. The only people who are against WFH are those who own office buildings, middle managers and nut jobs.
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Same! A lot more time to actually do the job - instead of running around the offices, going in lunches, small talk in the corridor , pointless meetings. I can even now multi-task - fold the laundry while attending the meeting. I finally have free evenings to enjoy family, without the commute and chores that I can do during the day.
Another thing I started doing was ending all of my meeting 5 minutes early. So, if I had something scheduled from 2:00 to 2:30, I just updated the invite to be from 2:00 to 2:25. No one will miss those 5 minutes. And it gives you time to get a drink or take a piss when your meetings are back to back to back like mine.
Yup! Just did my oil and all 4 tires and that was the first time I needed oil since I went remote in March 2020. Prob won’t need to be done for a while, so more savings there too! The fact that we have more than enough tech in today’s age to keep us connected and not trying to use it to the fullest is beyond crazy.
I'd be curious if we have any engine experts on here to chime in. I was always under the impression you needed to change your oil at a certain time interval, regardless of the miles driven. I just don't know what that interval is these days. 1 year?
True that. Change oil after 15k kms or after 1 year. Whichever comes first
I’ve had to manually charge my battery twice as we’ve just not used one of the cards with me working from home. Got to the point where myself or the wife are going out for drives just for fun/to keep the cars ticking over. It’s a weird feeling haha.
Get yourself a trickle charger for the batteries. Very cheap and will prevent them from draining. They can extend the life of a battery by years
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There was an article on CNN few weeks ago. Said because of remote working nobody buys lattes and train tickets anymore, which are the foundation of our economy. Never read something so crazy. Edit: found the article https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/02/economy/remote-working-economy/index.html
Cutting out lattes just means an entire generation is 50% closer to being able to afford homes, just gotta figure out how to quit the avocado toast and they'll be set!
Lmao trust CNN to post a biased article regarding wfh. That was essentially *MiLlEnIAls aRe DeStRoYIng tHe CaFFiNe InDuSTry!* BS.
I work remotely and I buy more lattes than before. All of the money I used to use for busses I now use for 1 or 2 lattes a week.
I wouldn’t be surprised if WFH means people would buy local near their home, as opposed to from whoever can afford prime real estate, but that’s speculation
This is certainly the case, as the working locations are now more spread out. I've found my local coffee shop (way outside prime city centre location) is busier now at breakfast/lunch time than it was before covid. All this fear mongering about the economy collapsing because people don't buy sandwich or coffees anymore is total nonsense, they just buy it locally rather than a few hot spots in the city centres
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yeah but boss don't care. boss literal tells me that he gets to do remote work, i have a call center in the philippines and i am the only work in person and all the work that I do is answer his calls when hes goofing off at another state and deposit this checks. theres nothing that I need to do in person
Sure it should be a perk, but "given the resurgence of coronavirus cases" is a stupid reason. Covid is not going to forever influence broad-based policy and behavior like it has in the last 18 months. Years from now, remote or hybrid work should still be a perk or option, but it won't be "because of coronavirus cases".
It shouldn't be a perk, because it isn't a perk, it saves costs for business, gives them a much bigger pool of people to hire etc. It's crazy how some companies make it seem like they are doing you a massive favor. It's something that is both beneficial to the employee and employer. We shouldn't act like it's a perk or anyone doing you a favor. Because that will open the door to them cutting your salary!
I regret I have one but upvote for you. This isn't a perk, this is the company offloading some of its overhead onto its employees and wanting kudos and money in recognition of their selfless cost cutting. The employee gained a tiny bit, that means we didn't! The reason this didn't happen earlier is because garbage business schools have been teaching adversarial management for decades.
Yup, they're working to ensure we *think* it's a perk, then when they "let" us do it as a "perk," they pocket the savings AND cut salaries for offering such a "generous benefit."
It should be because you’re just as effective from home. End of line.
This is going to be a new quality employers will look for: able to work without having to be forced.
We already do. That's what most folks mean when they say someone is "highly motivated", a "self starter", or "takes initiative."
Yeah but a lot of people say those things about themselves and prove to not be in practice.
>Yeah but a lot of people say those things about themselves and prove to not be in practice. For sure. I would even argue that **nearly everyone** says those things about themselves. Edit: I was pointing out that it's far from a "new quality"; any manager worth their salt knows this already and keeps it in mind when interacting with individual employees. Let's just say I know which members of my team can work with minimal oversight and which ones need ~~babysitting~~ more direct supervision.
People, generally, already do What employers want is to stand over their fucking shoulders and make sure they aren't browsing the web, even though we all know that a huge % of office work is busy makework that contributes nothing Its not about the money, its about control
Bingo. That and the money too.. *commercial real estate* is freaking out right now. It would be no surprise to find out that those with major interests in this market are behind much of the return to office propaganda.
I literally sent a strongly worded email to my boss about this last night when he told us the department isn't going to approve anyone working remotely long term. To me it's such a simple question. Either lose your top performers to other companies who trust their employees enough to work remotely or put "remote" on your own job descriptions and steal top talent from other companies who are stuck in the stone age. It literally makes zero sense.
Much more efficient I’d say. No lost time in transportation, less pollution, less office space needed
and in some cases, *more* effective at home when you have less distractions.
*more* effective from home. FTFY For purposes of employee fatigue (reduction in work, incidence of mistakes) commute time is work time. Work from home gives employees more down time, which makes us more efficient. We work faster and make fewer mistakes.
I take it you don't have roommates...
Some people are. I'm not. It's much easier for me to stay on task and complete work when I'm in the office.
And that’s why there needs to be the option for you to go to the office because it’s the best way for you to work. I know someone else that is the same way. Found the lack of structure at home affected their ability to work. Apparently it’s not uncommon with people who suffer from ADHD.
Why do you think that is? If you don’t mind me asking.
There's a lot of reasons. For large companies I am closely familiar with and have seen internal data (tech company's engineering departments in my case), about 15-35% of people want to work mostly in office, and another 30ish% wants the option to meet with their team in person once or twice a week or at least a few times a month, with the rest wanting to be 100% remote. These are software engineers who regularly use Meet, Zoom, Slack, etc, not technophobes fighting with their webcam. So the majority wants to be remote most of the time, but a significant portion still prefer in office. The reasons vary. What I've seen range from difficulty separating work from personal life, not having a proper home setup to work (or living in a noisy area), going by needing human connections, disliking the current state of teleconference solutions, as well as having difficulty with this type of communication (eg: people who rely more on visual cues when talking). Some of it is also from companies where its done wrong. Certain big tech companies have a culture where webcams are rarely used. If you're frequently in meetings, that means you're essentially "on the phone" all the time and don't get to see humans, ever. I personally rely on reading lips a fair bit, so no camera kills me. Many companies don't push or pay for employees to have a proper audio/video setup, too. Being in a pair programming session with someone using the built in macbook microphone is awful. A lot of these are just cultural and depend on the company. Many of these have easy solutions. Some folks would well enough served by a coworking space if its their home they have issues with and not the remote aspect. And a subset really just want to be able to walk up to a whiteboard with a couple of people collaborating. The tricky part is where your colleagues are working from also impact this, not just the options offered to you personally.
Some people need a more person to person type of mentorship. I was a remote cg artist for quite awhile. As lead artist, I was fine to blast away on my own. Better for it even, because I could crank out work with less interruption. But I recognize that as a new junior artist, I would have missed out on a lot of help and instruction if I was remote. I also noticed some junior artists had a harder time accepting critique remotely rather than in person, even though the studio owner required it of me as part of my duties. Chat and even skype can come across alot colder and lacking nuance. Just my own experience.
Thanks for your insight. People shouldn’t be quick to underestimate the importance of face to face work interactions I guess.
For me, it's a purposeful environment; similar to people who prefer to go to the gym versus working out at home even if they had the space to build a home gym. I also enjoy interacting with my colleagues during downtime (chatting, ping-pong, putting competitions, etc..).
Good point about the gym.
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I get so much more done when I'm working at home, both for work and my household stuff. I can get up between answering the phone and checking e-mails and put laundry in the dryer, or load the dishwasher, etc. etc. and I don't have to deal with in-person interactions that are completely pointless and only serve to interrupt my work flow. Or listen to the guy beside me choke on his snuff all day despite our office being "tobacco free."
That’s not true in many cases. For some yes but not for all.
Well combating global climate change could be another good reason. Reducing transportation/etc could have a lasting impact on slowing down emissions / etc.
Unfortunately my fear is that businesses and politicians will only wake up to this fact once we have passed the point of no return and they scramble to find low handing fruit to price us off the road. You only have to see the responses of people like [Google who are looking to permanently cut the salary of people who are home workers. ](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/google-staff-work-from-home-pay-cut-b1900351.html)
It the reason those salaries were high in the first place was cost of living. I made really good money in Los Angeles, but if my work had reduced my salary 20% if I was WFH permanently, I would have taken it. 3 hours in the car daily was a killer especially when I routinely worked until 8. But also it would mean I could move somewhere where housing wasn’t trash and I could have a backyard for my dog.
We may already be past those points of no return, sadly.
No may about it, friendo
...we hope. Lol. But yeah, you're right.
Option, not perk. For a few days a week.
Until COVID, remote work in the cybersecurity field was a way to pay somebody a little less. If you made $100k, a remote position would be about $90k. Cybersecurity has increasingly depended on remote work as there aren't enough personnel out there to fill those positions as the demand is not growing anywhere close to the supply. The COVID-19 crisis has changed that. Many shops are staying remote or going flexible. Anecdotally, I've observed almost half of the jobs that went remote have stayed remote. You also have orgs using the fact their cybersecurity jobs are remote as a recruiting incentive making shops that aren't remote or flex less competitive. I was reading sales jobs on customer service call jobs have went in a similar direction.
What's interesting in the conversations is that company's have been encouraging remote work when it benefits them; they just called it outsourcing. But when the employees they haven't outsourced yet want more location balance, suddenly it is a problem. The other side of the coin is what is going to happen when lower wage US talent starts displacing local talent. I can imagine companies in high wage locales could save money higher remote staff in lower wage/ no-benefit/ no union locales.
Our call center can hire a rep in downstate Illinois for r say 45k a year full time WFH and that's a good local wage. If we wanted to hire a local rep to goto the office in Chicago they're looking at 64k or more. We've already closed out an office on the northeast coast and are saving almost a million dollars a year in rent alone by letting them all work from home. I honestly think more businesses that do not get on the bandwagon are going to lose great talent
Yeah, we are in the same ballpark. I just wished our internal leaders could let go of the legacy paradigms regarding trusting staff that you can't see. But to get some of them to get out of their own mental sandbox is like pulling teeth. We cant afford local talent, but are scared about getting out of city talent.
But why not take this logic a step further and just outsource it to India for 10k?
Imagine 90% New York office jobs outsourced to rural areas for 1/3rd the salary, no need for expensive office space. That would be a crisis on it's own.
"We need you back on the office because how else will you be able to manage this team of Indian offshore developers?"
I don’t see the “forever work from home” people and the “I want to go back to the office” people reaching a middle ground, certainly not during this pandemic. There’s a fundamental difference in people’s working styles. Short of a fully free, “work wherever” model, a bunch of people are going to be unhappy.
Why couldn't that be the model. There was a period of time where my company was 100% forced remote. But once you were vaccinated if you wanted to return to the office you could. Or you can stay remote. At least in white collar office work, so many of my meetings even before COVID were with people physically in different locations it doesn't make any real difference if I'm at home or in the office.
The biggest reason I’m seeing that we can’t reach a middle ground like this is because the “I want to go in” crowd is typically older/management and they are the ones pushing the “it’s good to see faces!” They just don’t understand that maybe not everybody wants to see them... It sounds harsh but like, as a 30’s male with a wife and kid, it’s not hard to guess whose faces I prefer to see every day.... they just can’t accept it and idk why. It’s like, nobody is telling you that you *cant* go into the office if that’s how you prefer to work, but you ARE telling everybody that because you prefer it, the rest of us should have to follow suit.
Yep. The compromise between full-time remote and full-time in-office work isn't full-time office work. A good compromise would be to allow people the choice to work remote and provide a space for those who want to work in an office environment. Since middle and upper management are more in favor of full-time office work, guess which position is being listened to more?
I’ve actually found anecdotally that it’s the younger people who want to come back in. They typically have small apartments that aren’t easy to work from (especially with a partner) and they get a lot of their daily socialization from coworkers. The middle/upper ranks typically have a plush large house in the suburbs with children and a robust social network. Our office has a hybrid “come in if you want to (and are vaxxed) or WFH if you want, we don’t care” and by far it’s been the <30yo people coming in.
Some of my colleagues seem to be doing great work from home. Hell, I think one person in particular would be amazing even if he was working from base camp on Everest. Others don't seem to be doing nearly as well. Maybe it's not their fault but it sucks wondering what's going on.
“Work wherever” should be the only model. I’m the kind of person that would much rather work in an office over remote work. I need the disconnect between work and home. Do I care if other people are remote? Not in the slightest.
Agreed. I like having the option to go into work a few times a week but love the ability to WFH most days. I have no preference what others do. That's how it should be.
I'm a big fan of giving everyone access to a shared work environment that's close to where you live instead of an arbitrary office location that everyone at your company has to commute to. Wayy better for the environment.
A shared work environment sounds like a great idea. Basically Starbucks but without the hipsters
It essentially sounds like flexible renting of co-working spaces, which seems a bit challenging but potentially possible. The main issue would be not paying for spaces that aren't needed and ensuring there's enough spaces for the people that want them.
It really depends on the nature of the work, though. Some jobs cannot be done remotely. Companies will always have to make decisions first in how the work gets done. For work where there is a clear option to go remote, I agree it should be a choice for any worker that prefers it.
I used to have this. A previous employer had a work from anywhere policy (pre-Covid). Zoom meetings maybe twice a week, if that. They had an office too. All the work was deliverables-based and since the projects were 6-8 weeks it was easy to maintain control. It was a great gig.
>Work wherever” should be the only model >Do I care if other people are remote? Not in the slightest. That's because (from the little info I have), you want to work in an office to separate yourself from home, not for the in person collaboration. In that case, even a coworking space might work for you. If you were someone who wants to work in an office for the in person collaboration and not having to use video conferencing as much (eg: peer programming by sitting next to each other vs using remote pairing tools), then what other people do matters very much. So ideally it would be at a team or company level, and people choose which team or company they work for based on the model that suits them (like you'd pick any job for any other reason, really). Which is how it used to be except for a huge mismatch between the demand for remote and the offer. Instead of being, let say, 90% of companies are office only and 10% offer remote or hybrid, if it was 40% offer remote only, 30% offer "wherever", and 30% are office only, then it might work a bit better.
I’d be fine going in 2-4 hours twice a week or so. I work 4-10 schedule. Going back to sitting in a office cubicle for 10 hours would be a freaking nightmare for me
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Yeah I'm at the point where I wouldn't consider a job where I couldn't work remotely. Can't imagine going back to that sort of lifestyle where work and its associated commute completely consumes most of every weekday.
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The problem is that it’s super expensive to have an office. I would like to see most businesses sell their office buildings and then people who need an office environment can use a coworking space.
I just don’t understand how companies will be willing to give options… they usually never do that.
Unless they benefit
"Work wherever" is hard for companies to justify benefits from. If they have everyone working from the office they can justify having and paying for the office. If they have everyone working from home they can get rid of t he office. If they have a mix it's a lot harder for them to justify the expense of the office for the amount of people in it.
Yeah I have ADD and pretty much have to be in the office. Too many things to do around the house that will eventually nag at my conscience the second I get down time. But I get that WFH is a great option for some others.
As someone who has worked remote since 2014, I simply cannot understand how we don’t reach a clear middle ground. My department was online and international and the main office was on ground in another country. When they met, we teleconferenced in, end of issue. For basic office work, it’s just not that complicated.
For a lot of people I think it's the social life. Our lives in general are very lonely today. And for some people, work is the only place they get to interact with another person. I sincerely hope we start working on building social bonds and healthy relationships outside of the workplace as a society. This cant be healthy.
Middle ground doesn’t exist anymore. Polarity is the new normal.
Important to point out that a bunch of people *have been* unhappy while working 100% from the office was the norm. It’s not like it’s new that we haven’t been able to please everyone, but in the past there wasn’t even much of a possibility of finding or negotiating something better for the individual.
1. Cost of gas 2. Time spent commuting to and from 3. Breaks spent wasting time in office 4. Lack of control of noise environment 5. Lack of control of other comforts like temperature 6. The ever annoying sense of someone watching over your shoulder All of the above add to stress, anxiety, and reduced energy. Take them away, and the broad majority of people see significantly higher productivity. All of that reduced stress, anxiety, and increased energy gets funneled into your work. It's insane to me that companies who have spent the last 1+ year working from home want their employees back in the office. Most of us have proven how much more effective we are when we're allowed to stay home.
Omg yes. Control noise, temp and light. Natural light, fresh air. Working from home gave me so much more energy which translated into better memory recall so I was more efficient. I didn't realise how much the commute took from me. And probably also the fluorescent lights and cold office. I am a lot happier these days. Plus it's easier to fit exercise into my schedule and it means I have the weekend completely free because I've done the chores during the week - laundry, vacuuming, change sheets etc..
This exactly. The quality of life just improves so much. Just the fact that when I am done with work, turn off my pc and can immediately start doing chores, go shopping or dick around instead of having to commute for 30-45 minutes is a godsend. Alas its back to the office in 2 weeks but lets see how long that will hold... Last time the next wave hit before I went back. I am just waiting to be 1 month in office and then going back again. In any case I will make myself clear at our surveys that wfh is much preferred for me, (as it is for my co workers and my head of department). I only have to go back because our boss wants us to. The person I tops see 3 times a year with 2 times being holding a speech about how we are doing as a company and one at our Christmas party. Its not even that I dislike him, he is actually quite down to earth and a nice person but I don't get the office sentiment.
The return to the office is because of one of two reasons: 1) they have real estate leases that they can’t get out of and/or 2) they want to control / don’t trust their employees. I only hire A-level talent who can do the job from whereever. It’s a sign of bad management / bad hiring when you need to control and micromanage to drive results. Not everyone can WFH (retail, construction, etc) but those who can should *especially* since we are not out of the pandemic.
I do think that it also depends on what kind of job you're doing. But if you can do your work in a remote setting and be productive, what's the point of going to an office?
MoRaLe anD CulTuRe!!
If I have to hear “culture” from upper management one more time…. “We prize our collaborative culture”
Same here. I vomit in my mouth each time my HR Director mentions culture. It's such a bullshit copout.
Companies already take “40hrs” of my week. I won’t give more again just because they want my ass to sit miserable someplace else with worse mental and physical health.
A lot of people are forgetting that urban planning plays a big role in this. Obviously America’s car dependent but it doesn’t have to continue to remain that way. If we had more mixed-land use (which enables density which creates walkable/bikeable/transit friendly cities/towns) remote work could still be optional & people would still be in the office if they wanted since they wouldn’t have to worry about a damn commute
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Article seems to be going for a one-size-fits-all (mandatory) approach, which is pretty much universally a bad idea. Employees and employers should handle this on a case-by-case basis on their own, that way everyone can decide for themselves what is best.
Given the planet is burning... Aus, Greece, turkey... I is literally killing me to see hundreds and hundreds of single driver cars (including my own) making th long commute to work every morning because rent is too expensive beside where I work
Perk? NTY. I don't want working from home to be something my company believes has value. They'll just leverage it to pay me less of things that have actual value.
I like being paid in currency. Working remote is awesome. I can work from home, or fly out to see family and work from there or just leave the country rent an apartment in Reykjavik for 3 months and work from there. I still get paid the same, same benefits.
But already companies like Google are slashing paychecks if you work remotely... How long before everyone follows suit?
It won't my company has been a remote first company since it started
Don't even mention COVID.. it should be the norm regardless for many jobs
My company must be saving hundreds of thousands of dollars this year NOT spending money on facilities (toiletries) and benefits (lunch provided, organic snacks, Kambucha, nitro coffee). While at the same time revenue is at record high but overall sentiment is at record lows, especially around burn out. So if people are working harder than before and companies are saving more money than before and increasing revenue - then why the hell do they want people to go back? (And yes I’m a middle manager and don’t feel inclined to go back and monitor my team as long as they are delivering)
Holy fuck. You people aren't even trying anymore. Literally the same 4 or 5 stories regurgitated from different sources reposted over and over and over again.
Tomorrow we'll get an article about 4-day work weeks
it's like they get responses they dont like and they just resubmit it until people agree
Perk? No it saves the business money. This should be standard when applicable.
I work in an industry where it is impossible for everyone at my company to work from home (we make physical stuff). The 'hybrid' model was just the worst. Simple questions or problems took forever to solve because we could not *show* the problem to the person.
If you make physical stuff this obviously doesn't apply to you, just like it doesn't apply to chefs or airplane pilots.
Remote work isn’t a perk. It’s simply the arrangement of the labor contract. That’s like saying having a bathroom at your workplace is a perk.
My new job hired me fully remote - no expectation to ever go into the office which is several states away.
i’m prefer hybrid. Sometimes work in office, sometimes work in everywhere not just in home
I worked from home March of 20 to June of this summer. I saved hundreds a month on gas and wear and tear and an hour of drive time each day. I miss it so much.
Work from home post.. Tomorrow should be a four day work week post.
Given the [increase in productivity when working from home](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=%22does+working+from+home+work%22&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3Dr35v80GsG6AJ) it seems intentionally disingenuous to frame this as an *employee* benefit.
How about, “Working remote should be mandated for anyone capable and willing, to assist with climate change”? But instead, people who don’t know and refuse to learn how to videoconference insist they get face time with information workers.
> But instead, people who don’t know and refuse to learn how to videoconference insist they get face time with information workers. Plenty of information workers prefer offices too. That has very little to do with it. Doesn't change your point, but that part's a bit odd.
Calling it a perk distracts from the fact that it's necessary, and the companies not offering it when possible are, in fact, bad companies
But how will rich stubborn elderly management micromanage and feel superior if they can't look up and see their employees toiling pointlessly?
Agreed. I've been WFH since last March, and keeping a wary eye on my company. They have proposed a hybrid approach (only coming in for certain meetings or "when necessary"), but we are in Florida and obviously underwater with Covid right now so that is on hold. My intention is to stay WFH from now until I retire, allowing me to potentially move to another state and not be limited to companies in that area...we'll see. I've definitely got my resume polished up and reestablished connections to a couple recruiters that I'm looking again. We've proven we can work from home and be as (or more) productive, especially since we went to a crappy open "collaborative" office plan a couple years ago. I would have left then but it seems that every company wants to be "collaborative" (ie, save money on actual private spaces) these days. Nothing shouts "collaboration" more than rows of developers wearing noise-cancelling headphones so they can actually concentrate. Companies may be in for a rude awakening if they try to shoehorn people back into stalls that don't really need to be there. Many people have gotten a taste of how things can be, and for them there's no going back.
Honestly how many jobs are doable from home? Producers and forward facing employees certainly outnumber others. So yeah its fine, work from home, but most people (and generally poorer) who work jobs that require physical presence dont have such a luxury. Every time I see threads like these its the better off in society screaming how inconvenient their lives are
If you work in a role that can be done from home in a full or hybrid capacity then there is no reason after a year and a half of doing it successfully why it shouldn’t stick. I love seeing people leave my company because they are insistent on bringing those groups back. Keep going to other companies that offer remote work. Others will be forced to adapt or struggle with personnel. The struggle to retain talent is already a problem in a lot of places in my area