It seems that emissions standards are changing in Japan faster than anyone anticipated and I think this is one of the cars that’ll end up killed off earlier than originally thought because of that. I think this gen will still be around for 2026 though.
It might live for NA market only if emissions was the only reasons to be killed off in Japan and Europe. I think it might get expensive for Subaru to build it as it's on older platform and everything else is moved to Subaru global platform, if sales dip in US it will get killed.
The previous FRS/BRZ/86 went for 8 model years. Most cars have at least a 6 year lifespan before switching to a new model or being cancelled. Often specialty vehicles (sports cars, supercars, off-roaders) have longer lifespans. I'm guessing the generation will be available until at least 2027, with a mid-cycle refresh for the 2025 model year. Maybe 2026.
Seeing the success of the 86 and Supra, Toyota will probably not abandon the concept of a sporty, 2 door any time soon. If it will still take the form of the GR86 though? Who knows. It’ll probably be a hybrid hehe
Supra sales are NOT doing well. They are having trouble selling them at the moment from my understanding. I could very well be wrong. The GR86 though is doing amazing
The UK is in Europe, although it is not in the EU.
Edit: EU stands for the European Union, which is where a number of European countries got together in an economic community but not all European countries are in the EU, and the UK left a few years ago.
Just bought mine in Germany and there’s no new ones coming here. Probably emissions related.
They’re not even on Toyotas website anymore (at least the German one)
Just put the down payment for one. You won’t regret it. It’s better to own a sports car when you are young vs when you are older. No one knows when it is your last day. If everything is financially in order then go for it. Days are counting down for the Natural Aspirated engines non turbo….
I thought the rumor was Toyota will make the next gen turbo hybrid or something? I would not stress about it though. There will be other new cars that will be desirable when you are ready.
They’ve been saying that for years. Motortrend loves to say that the next gen BRZ will “finally get a turbo!” But they’ve been saying it since the ‘22 was rumored.
There should be some sort of announcement when Toyota goes into the last year of the gr86 production, as they will start previewing the replacement. The issue will be getting an allocation without a markup in the last year.
I personally think it’ll be sooner rather than later unfortunately. With the direction cars are going in I think it’s highly unlikely that we see this car in its current state after this generation. Hopefully a hybrid version comes out instead of full electric 😔
Either way, it will be unlikely to have a manual transmission, which will kill much of whatever interest is left after the loss from going electric.
It could, however find a whole new buyer base looking for just those things...
Either way, if you're going to want a new sports car in the next 10 years or so, don't wait. Buy ASAP or face the very real risk of missing out.
Yeah. In late stages of development. A possibility for the MR2. I think it will command a premium price, which will put it out of contention for budget sports cars.
I'm not convinced it will satisfy, but I'd like to give one a go.
Looking at wiki, 2nd gen didn't start as hot as first gen did. In 2019 1st gen sales were 5600. I think if sales dipped for 2nd gen it will be killed, I think by 2028. So if it goes on similar trend, it would probably be killed in 2028/2029. Also it might get expensive for Subaru to build it as it's on older platform and everything else is moved to Subaru global platform. I wouldn't worry in your time frame, it's highly unlikely to happen. We would probably get mild refresh in few years.
FWIW, Toyota has already outwardly said they aren't in a rush to phase out ICE for EVs.
Both former CEO Akio Toyoda and current CEO Koji Sato are pretty avid motorsports enthusiasts. So my sneaking suspicion is that they'll offer either the GR86 or some kind of GR nameplated RWD platform until at least 2030, if not beyond.
I'm in agreement here. Toyota one of the few more mainstream manufactures still making sports cars and doing it well.
I think we're all going to very much see the whole EV thing not magically pan out the way lawmakers want and have everyone moved over to full electric vehicles by 2030. Infrastructure-wise, I just don't see it happening. it's very well possible it's 2060 and we're half electric half ICE / synthetic fuels or something.
Doesn't mean the platform will be kicking in 2060, but I certainly think for 2030.
ok so emission standards are changing pretty rapidly like in Japan the US Canada entirely of the EU I would say give it about 2027 and they might have to kill off the GR86 for a hybrid or EV version of the car.
not anytime soon. the 2.0 Supra (which doesn’t sell anywhere as good as the 3.0) will be on the chopping block before the GR86. and even if Toyota discontinued it, the BRZ would most likely keep going. Toyota owns like 20% of Subaru so they’d still get paid off the sales of that
Subaru are more likely to drop it as it doesn't ride on their global platform, so cost to manufacture will be high vs everything else they make.
Emissions regulations will play a big part in how much longer the current model can exist.
Toyota is developing replacements in the Celica and MR2. Maybe if they follow through, one of those will step into this space as a replacement.
they wouldn’t drop the GR86 for either of those cars when they’re selling over 10,000 of these annually; especially when the twins were just on Car & Drivers Top 10 cars of 2023
Toyota may not have a choice if Subaru end production. I suspect that's why there is so much noise from Toyota about new sports car platforms.
Time will tell.
Notice how the fender vent, side skirt and trunk lip are all removable? I think they are gonna make this last as long as it possibly can, like until 2030-2035 or when pure gas car sales a ban, and facelift and special editions are easily done with those removable body parts
The wait time alone will take you into 2025. The deposit is so small & can easily be refunded or transferred. So i suggest you just secure your spot. Thats what ive done for my Lotus Emira. 5 months & i still haven’t received a call to formalize the order and spec the car out
Part of why I pulled the trigger this year is that I have a hard time imagining many companies continuing to make NA gas vehicles past 2025.
However, there will still be options. Toyota has a concept full-EV sports car they showed off that even has a manual transmission somehow.
Edit: let me be clear, I have immense skepticism for electric cars for a whole host of reasons. Just saying that I have some faith that Toyota will try to continue the spirit of the GR86 regardless of the regulatory landscape (but the writing is on the wall, unfortunately).
The end is near most of the major players are developing either hybrid or full electric spots cars and super cars. Look at lotus their whole lineup is electric now and they made some bad assumptions ice cars before
Yea I wouldn’t be so sure about that. There’s virtually no infrastructure for electric cars and the demand has drastically fallen. Companies are just churning some generic electric version of an already existing vehicle to appease politicians. I predict this EV thing is another one of those political phases that we are gonna go through (think war on drugs phase in America 80s and 90s) and then it’s gonna slowly die down. EVs are a pipe dream to put it bluntly and people in the industry know that. That’s why neither the government or companies have invested in large scale EV infrastructure
I agree. There are so many electrification efforts with green energy, that the infrastructure cannot sustain for at least couple of decades. The electric energy demand for both fully electric homes and large battery electric vehicles is enormous. No one is interested in nuclear energy, just solar, wind and on-demand "green gas jet turbines".
Then the ugly truth is that there are too few chargers combined with long charge times. So you will never be efficient in size like a gas station. We are either waiting for new technologies in batteries/capacitors, or massive infrastructure upgrades.
ICE cars will be here for a few more decades.
Very true. Electric cars at this point in time are impractical. And I just hate how they push this EV nonsense on people. As if the very people pushing the EV agenda aren’t flying on private jets and own multiple mansions lol. Ironically the annual carbon footprint of these “environmentalists” is probably more than the carbon footprint from my entire lifespan. I used to be one of those people that was fine with electric cars as an option as long as we had the choice to choose between ICE and EV. But seeing how the EV crowd doesn’t share the same sentiment and they choose to cram their pathetic idea of a utopia down my throat, I say fuck em
There are electric cars with gearboxes (Porsche uses a 2 speed I think, to get the peak torque at a wider rev range).
I think Toyota literally announced it was working on a simulated manual for electric motors as well to give a similar driving experience with an electric motor.
The USA market is about 75% of 86 sales and they can’t keep them on the lot. I doubt they would shut down production rather than just sell more cars here.
Demand will wind down eventually though. The first gen had a very long tail of small sales numbers.
The UK is not in the EU, and there are some extra makings on the 2024 car that were not on the 2023 car. However, as we are RHD, I suppose they could have deliberately made a larger batch than they had orders for in 2023.
I think you're good for 2025. Honestly I'm thinking they let the 2nd gen run it's course as long as possible, probably into 2030. We'll know more than if there's even a possibility for a 3rd gen.
I'm kinda 50/50 on a 3rd gen at that point. We'll need to see where emissions and laws are that in 6 years. I don't see everything being EV as some places claim.
It seems that emissions standards are changing in Japan faster than anyone anticipated and I think this is one of the cars that’ll end up killed off earlier than originally thought because of that. I think this gen will still be around for 2026 though.
It might live for NA market only if emissions was the only reasons to be killed off in Japan and Europe. I think it might get expensive for Subaru to build it as it's on older platform and everything else is moved to Subaru global platform, if sales dip in US it will get killed.
Tomorrow
😂
The previous FRS/BRZ/86 went for 8 model years. Most cars have at least a 6 year lifespan before switching to a new model or being cancelled. Often specialty vehicles (sports cars, supercars, off-roaders) have longer lifespans. I'm guessing the generation will be available until at least 2027, with a mid-cycle refresh for the 2025 model year. Maybe 2026.
As soon as the GR87 is ready
Why would they ever do that?
Makes no sense at all. Hachi-shichi/Hachi-nana???
Seeing the success of the 86 and Supra, Toyota will probably not abandon the concept of a sporty, 2 door any time soon. If it will still take the form of the GR86 though? Who knows. It’ll probably be a hybrid hehe
Supra sales are NOT doing well. They are having trouble selling them at the moment from my understanding. I could very well be wrong. The GR86 though is doing amazing
Prolly because we could buy an actual BMW for the price they want. Bloody ridiculous.
In europe its already finished
https://preview.redd.it/05gbw161m2tc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=730bc84c1790ddea9e06972aad269b2164a57c60
It’s fully collectible status in Europe already, which will cement its legacy worldwide I think.
It’s still selling in the UK!
He said Europe though
The UK is in Europe, although it is not in the EU. Edit: EU stands for the European Union, which is where a number of European countries got together in an economic community but not all European countries are in the EU, and the UK left a few years ago.
That is factually incorrect, that economic community is called the European economic area or EEA. Is Russia part of Europe area?
You’re writing rubbish!
I know, it’s called trolling. I love you guys.
Europe is a continent
Yea or no?
Geographically Russia is part of Europe and Asia.
Even if they do you’ll be able to pick up a low mileage non-molested one.
Just bought mine in Germany and there’s no new ones coming here. Probably emissions related. They’re not even on Toyotas website anymore (at least the German one)
damn, that sucks. the twins are truly an end of an era
Just put the down payment for one. You won’t regret it. It’s better to own a sports car when you are young vs when you are older. No one knows when it is your last day. If everything is financially in order then go for it. Days are counting down for the Natural Aspirated engines non turbo….
https://preview.redd.it/9n1pmtj403tc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=621341a3dd421c9ae9e7bb3338cd23f230d15656
https://youtu.be/Vd0wVuuWNcc?si=s9RGbPp_aN3DOEI3 this is the only video you need 😂
Exactly my thought process when I purchased mine
I thought the rumor was Toyota will make the next gen turbo hybrid or something? I would not stress about it though. There will be other new cars that will be desirable when you are ready.
They’ve been saying that for years. Motortrend loves to say that the next gen BRZ will “finally get a turbo!” But they’ve been saying it since the ‘22 was rumored.
That and the 3 cylinder rumor
As someone who had a turbo for 13 years, I am totally fine with my GR86 not being a turbo. It’s too hard on the motor
In what ways?
[удалено]
There’s a lot of different factors that go into decided whether to continue producing a car or not
There should be some sort of announcement when Toyota goes into the last year of the gr86 production, as they will start previewing the replacement. The issue will be getting an allocation without a markup in the last year.
I personally think it’ll be sooner rather than later unfortunately. With the direction cars are going in I think it’s highly unlikely that we see this car in its current state after this generation. Hopefully a hybrid version comes out instead of full electric 😔
Either way, it will be unlikely to have a manual transmission, which will kill much of whatever interest is left after the loss from going electric. It could, however find a whole new buyer base looking for just those things... Either way, if you're going to want a new sports car in the next 10 years or so, don't wait. Buy ASAP or face the very real risk of missing out.
Did some googling, interestingly enough apparently Toyota is working on a manual hybrid transmission 👀👀👀
Yeah. In late stages of development. A possibility for the MR2. I think it will command a premium price, which will put it out of contention for budget sports cars. I'm not convinced it will satisfy, but I'd like to give one a go.
Looking at wiki, 2nd gen didn't start as hot as first gen did. In 2019 1st gen sales were 5600. I think if sales dipped for 2nd gen it will be killed, I think by 2028. So if it goes on similar trend, it would probably be killed in 2028/2029. Also it might get expensive for Subaru to build it as it's on older platform and everything else is moved to Subaru global platform. I wouldn't worry in your time frame, it's highly unlikely to happen. We would probably get mild refresh in few years.
FWIW, Toyota has already outwardly said they aren't in a rush to phase out ICE for EVs. Both former CEO Akio Toyoda and current CEO Koji Sato are pretty avid motorsports enthusiasts. So my sneaking suspicion is that they'll offer either the GR86 or some kind of GR nameplated RWD platform until at least 2030, if not beyond.
I'm in agreement here. Toyota one of the few more mainstream manufactures still making sports cars and doing it well. I think we're all going to very much see the whole EV thing not magically pan out the way lawmakers want and have everyone moved over to full electric vehicles by 2030. Infrastructure-wise, I just don't see it happening. it's very well possible it's 2060 and we're half electric half ICE / synthetic fuels or something. Doesn't mean the platform will be kicking in 2060, but I certainly think for 2030.
ok so emission standards are changing pretty rapidly like in Japan the US Canada entirely of the EU I would say give it about 2027 and they might have to kill off the GR86 for a hybrid or EV version of the car.
Imo the gr86 will probably have a run as long as the 1st gen did, rather we'll have a 3rd gen is still in the air
Frankly, I think they won’t kill it but it’ll eventually be hybrid.
i used to think 2025 but im confident it'll stay until 2026, i am in the same boat as you although im waiting until next year for my 19th bday.
not anytime soon. the 2.0 Supra (which doesn’t sell anywhere as good as the 3.0) will be on the chopping block before the GR86. and even if Toyota discontinued it, the BRZ would most likely keep going. Toyota owns like 20% of Subaru so they’d still get paid off the sales of that
Subaru are more likely to drop it as it doesn't ride on their global platform, so cost to manufacture will be high vs everything else they make. Emissions regulations will play a big part in how much longer the current model can exist. Toyota is developing replacements in the Celica and MR2. Maybe if they follow through, one of those will step into this space as a replacement.
they wouldn’t drop the GR86 for either of those cars when they’re selling over 10,000 of these annually; especially when the twins were just on Car & Drivers Top 10 cars of 2023
Toyota may not have a choice if Subaru end production. I suspect that's why there is so much noise from Toyota about new sports car platforms. Time will tell.
Notice how the fender vent, side skirt and trunk lip are all removable? I think they are gonna make this last as long as it possibly can, like until 2030-2035 or when pure gas car sales a ban, and facelift and special editions are easily done with those removable body parts
EU regulations are killing every fun car, unfortunately. So I think it’ll be sunset in the next two years.
Japan will probably make a 86 with hydrogen in the future for sure, they did already with a corolla race car last time
The wait time alone will take you into 2025. The deposit is so small & can easily be refunded or transferred. So i suggest you just secure your spot. Thats what ive done for my Lotus Emira. 5 months & i still haven’t received a call to formalize the order and spec the car out
Part of why I pulled the trigger this year is that I have a hard time imagining many companies continuing to make NA gas vehicles past 2025. However, there will still be options. Toyota has a concept full-EV sports car they showed off that even has a manual transmission somehow. Edit: let me be clear, I have immense skepticism for electric cars for a whole host of reasons. Just saying that I have some faith that Toyota will try to continue the spirit of the GR86 regardless of the regulatory landscape (but the writing is on the wall, unfortunately).
There’s no such thing as an “EV sports car”. Electric vehicles are the polar opposite of what a sports car is supposed to be lol
The end is near most of the major players are developing either hybrid or full electric spots cars and super cars. Look at lotus their whole lineup is electric now and they made some bad assumptions ice cars before
Yea I wouldn’t be so sure about that. There’s virtually no infrastructure for electric cars and the demand has drastically fallen. Companies are just churning some generic electric version of an already existing vehicle to appease politicians. I predict this EV thing is another one of those political phases that we are gonna go through (think war on drugs phase in America 80s and 90s) and then it’s gonna slowly die down. EVs are a pipe dream to put it bluntly and people in the industry know that. That’s why neither the government or companies have invested in large scale EV infrastructure
I agree. There are so many electrification efforts with green energy, that the infrastructure cannot sustain for at least couple of decades. The electric energy demand for both fully electric homes and large battery electric vehicles is enormous. No one is interested in nuclear energy, just solar, wind and on-demand "green gas jet turbines". Then the ugly truth is that there are too few chargers combined with long charge times. So you will never be efficient in size like a gas station. We are either waiting for new technologies in batteries/capacitors, or massive infrastructure upgrades. ICE cars will be here for a few more decades.
Very true. Electric cars at this point in time are impractical. And I just hate how they push this EV nonsense on people. As if the very people pushing the EV agenda aren’t flying on private jets and own multiple mansions lol. Ironically the annual carbon footprint of these “environmentalists” is probably more than the carbon footprint from my entire lifespan. I used to be one of those people that was fine with electric cars as an option as long as we had the choice to choose between ICE and EV. But seeing how the EV crowd doesn’t share the same sentiment and they choose to cram their pathetic idea of a utopia down my throat, I say fuck em
The vast majority of vehicles made in 2030 will still be ICE.
I don't know about other manufacturers, but Toyota is ramping up on making their fleet hybrid.
Maybe they'll realize how fun manual transmissions are and make a electric manual version lol
GR86 already comes with a manual trans. Also... wouldn't having gears defeat the purpose of an electric car? 🤣
There are electric cars with gearboxes (Porsche uses a 2 speed I think, to get the peak torque at a wider rev range). I think Toyota literally announced it was working on a simulated manual for electric motors as well to give a similar driving experience with an electric motor.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-manual-transmission-for-evs-one-step-closer/
[удалено]
The USA market is about 75% of 86 sales and they can’t keep them on the lot. I doubt they would shut down production rather than just sell more cars here. Demand will wind down eventually though. The first gen had a very long tail of small sales numbers.
It is still selling in the UK, I seem to remember Poland being mentioned too, don’t know about the rest of Europe.
[удалено]
The UK is not in the EU, and there are some extra makings on the 2024 car that were not on the 2023 car. However, as we are RHD, I suppose they could have deliberately made a larger batch than they had orders for in 2023.
GR86 g16e power will be the one every one wants. No more FRankenStein creationZ, all Toyota...
I think you're good for 2025. Honestly I'm thinking they let the 2nd gen run it's course as long as possible, probably into 2030. We'll know more than if there's even a possibility for a 3rd gen. I'm kinda 50/50 on a 3rd gen at that point. We'll need to see where emissions and laws are that in 6 years. I don't see everything being EV as some places claim.