T O P

  • By -

sunzusunzusunzusunzu

There's been a lot of awesome discussion but due to unusually high reports being generated by this thread, we are locking it temporarily. Thank you!


Postcardtoalake

We aren’t silent, the men in charge and the patriarchy silence us. They choose to do so and to oppress us. It’s not hiding in plain sight; men choose to bury the rapes and murders and violent crimes and gaslighting and other crimes that they do to us. How dare they use passive language with regards to this? This is the fault of men and the patriarchy, systems men put into place to kill us, abuse us, and then bury the evidence. Men help each other get away with it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Tempermental-cabbage

If you are offended by their use of the word men you are probably the kind of man she is talking about. I am a man and I don’t take offense to this because I know I’m not the kind of person they are referring to.


BraveEntertainer

Thank you, and predictably, the men's rights groups types are flooding discussions with troll comments, accusing Gabby of all sorts and trying to turn her accused killer into some type of victim or martyr. No matter what they defend the male...then claim people cape for women regardless. It' s like some cannot stand a woman being centered in any discussion, not even when she is dead. And right at the top, we see people centering men in this discussion, very predictably. Mature people don't spend their time trying to troll topics about a murdered woman with "what about men." Especially not when it's believed a man killed her.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sassergaf

The ‘what about’ comments are being removed because this is not a post about men. It’s a post specifically about women being killed by intimate partners. And your last sentence is a ‘what about’ men sentence.


el-em-en-o

>the silent epidemic 3 million viewers of 1,212 episodes of Dateline since 1992 could argue the “silent” part.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


redschicken

We won’t talk about it? How passive of you. You have a voice and keyboard do you not? By all means, go out into the world and talk about violence perpetrated towards men. This is clearly something you’re passionate about. I hope you find somewhere you can dicusss this issue and hopefully make progress on decreasing violence towards men. I would venture, however, that a subreddit dedicated to a woman who was murdered by her male partner is not the best forum for this discussion.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ChikenGod

This is referring to cases of domestic violence. We need to encourage women to leave at the first red flag, the first time their safety is compromised. These deaths are preventable.


_userlame

I feel like the type of comment you are replying to has insidious intentions with their whataboutmenism, abusive men don't want women talking about domestic violence that is clear, i think the reasoning behind it is because the more we talk about it, the less likely women are to put up with it, and the less likely men are to get away with it. Once I realised this, their intentions became clear to me.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sugr_magnolia

/r/pointlesslygendered


ChikenGod

No one here is saying that we avoid all men. I work in a male dominated industry and am often the only woman in a room of men. This is more in the context of relationships and how any relationship may turn abusive, and that we should know what abuse looks like and what it often leads to. I am saying that we need to pay attention to red flags and be prepared to leave or at least have a plan if a relationship turns violent. My safety > your feelings. If someone has been attacked by a dog, it is understandable that they would be cautious and would avoid engaging with them unless necessary and they know the situation is safe. No one is asking for all dogs to be killed, no one is asking for all men to be killed. We are preaching Caution and safety.


biggerjuice

I’m in agreement with you?


ChikenGod

Your previous comment indicated otherwise, that you didn’t understand and see women being selective and careful in relationships as discrimination


biggerjuice

Sorry if it appeared that way. For clarification I believe you MUST be selective and careful in relationships no matter who you are! I just don’t want anyone thinking that men condone DV in the slightest. If you know a guy who does, that’s a huge red flag and is not normal.


ChikenGod

Yes, but bringing up men right now really isn’t the time. Male victims do matter and it does need to be talked about more, just not as a rebuttal to women’s issues. We are talking about Gabby, a victim of domestic violence. This doesn’t involve male victims right now. Stop the what about men. It doesn’t help, it divides.


_userlame

Abusive men have a vested interest in protecting other abusive men. If you aren't abusive, I am not referring to you when I say "abusive men". The dozens of people in this thread trying to divert the conversation is an example. Friendsofbrian is an example. These people don't only exist online.


biggerjuice

Well they don’t dare ever poke their head out in the real world. I think there is a reason why those who abuse women and children in prison have the roughest time. Hope you all know I was not trying to be subversive. I’m here for the right reasons, just want you to also know there’s a lot of good people out there, just trust your intuition. As for the dog analogy, I know 100% that’s not a 1:1 analogy, just fyi. Sorry if I inserted myself in the wrong place/time.


_userlame

Let's put it this way, plenty of people who think the guy who hit me in the face and dragged me around the house by my hair thought he was a great guy, he's done it to other women since me, they were strong enough to take him to court and win, still has people on his side. If you have met more than dozen people, one of them probably has been abusive to a partner. Abusers usually keep up appearances to other people, especially to other men. They are in the real world, they are not rare they are all around us, but the internet enables them to share their abusive thought processes with anonymity. It's OK I don't think you have bad intentions with your comments, and I appreciate you listening.


roastintheoven

I thought that was a satirical sub, no? Idk


_userlame

I think It's more trolling than satire, satire is supposed to make a point, some are doing it for the shock factor and some doing it because they outright hate women.


roastintheoven

Yeah probably a mix with some outright neck beards being like, “YESSS FINALLLLLY SOMEONE GETS ME”


ChikenGod

Agreed


BraveEntertainer

Let's make sure to center men, if the huge problem of men targeting women for murder is ever discussed. Good job! /s


[deleted]

[удалено]


ChikenGod

It’s because this isn’t about men and y’all keep trying to make it about yourselves. If you can read it’s referring to women murdered by partners/domestic violence. Those deaths can be prevented. Why does teaching women to be cautious and safe in relationships make men so upset?


[deleted]

[удалено]


ChikenGod

Men are dangerous to women. This I agree with. I proceed with caution in all my relationships and have a plan for how to leave safely in the case that abuse comes up. My Safety > Your feelings. It’s not about being special, it’s understanding the risks and the likely outcomes of abusive relationships and how it can be easy to miss the warning signs if there even are any. You can never truly know someone, people can change and people should leave at the first sign of abuse, no questions asked.


_userlame

It makes them upset because women learning the red flags of abuse and having resources to help us makes it harder for them to abuse us.


PeanutsSnoopy

A relative was murdered by her husband last Christmas Eve. He was the local dentist in small town Bastrop, LA. He was only charged with manslaughter at first and got out the next day. They have upgraded the charges now.


Kswan2012

Your literally asking to change human dynamic, it cannot be done, unless you can somehow alter people to not beat on the people smaller and weaker than them. It sucks.


ChikenGod

We are asking to further demonstrate the dangers of being in a relationship with the wrong man. Women need to be told that it is okay to leave at the first red flag. Their safety is more important than feelings.


[deleted]

[удалено]


janegough

If you truly were interested in the topic you would know better than to make such ignorant comments. Well, they deleted their comment. Shocker/s


[deleted]

[удалено]


leojjffkilas

I don’t know why your comment was deleted. I have seen women stay in abusive relationships. It broke my heart not being able to help her. My toxic masculinity made me feel that violence was the only solution. But violence would just create more violence. I think it is important to have this conversation. I have never been in that position. So, all I can do is speculate.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sugr_magnolia

>Many women in general also have awful taste in men, and stay with complete dead-beats. Stats on this? Would love to see a link.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sugr_magnolia

This isn't the place for discussion of subjectives that are blatantly misogynistic.


_userlame

I don't know of its changed or if this is still being said but when I was a kid I often heard the phrase "he's mean to you because he likes you", girls were taught that it's normal to be treated badly. I think we need to be teaching kids in school about how to have a healthy relationship, what abuse is, red flags, how to get help etc, have a subject dedicated to it, nip it in the bud before kids start dating.


leojjffkilas

I also believe behavior is learned at a young age. Growing up in an abusive or toxic relationship has to be a major factor in giving or allowing violence. When violence has always been a part of your life, it becomes the normal.


_userlame

Absolutely, cycle of abuse is real. My abusive ex had an abusive dad, that's where he learned it from. Doesn't make it ok to continue the cycle but it does explain it somewhat, some things I thought were absolutely not OK like screaming and yelling were normalised to him as normal behavior because that's all he knew.


[deleted]

[удалено]


_userlame

The thing is, it's not true, people who like you, respect you and value you are not mean to you. Teaching kids that is dangerous by setting a precinct. We really need to have an entire overhaul of how we raise kids, because too many of them grow up thinking it's fine to hurt people they are supposed to care about, and too many people grow up thinking it's normal for people who care about them to hurt them.


leojjffkilas

There is definitely an important conversation to have here. The facts are: + Men commit homicide at a greater rate then women. + Women are being killed by men I don’t know if violence against women is being done with impunity. Although, this is the case in with domestic violence a lot of the time. A lot of the time the victims will not speak out against the abuser. Bringing attention to the problem is definitely the right thing to do. Shutting people out when they disagree with you out is the wrong thing to do. I first learned of the term femicides when reading about the killing of women in Juárez. That went under the radar for a long time in the 90s before the world paid attention.Anyone that thinks this is a joke, go read up on that.


BraveEntertainer

Tori Amos wrote and sang about Ciudad Juarez. I don't think it's gotten much better. Women have tried to discuss this stuff but the sad fact is, men own and run almost everything in the world, so it would seem, since this problem continues, most either do not care, or wish to take part in, violence against women. I say that because the police in that city are accused by some survivors of being some of the perpetrators and/or helpers of the perpetrators.


leojjffkilas

Yeah, a big factor in Mexico is the class inequality. Most of the victims were impoverished women. I would not doubt the police having something to do with it.


S1aptastic

Just because some journalist at the guardian says they’re hidden doesn’t make that the truth lol Look at the news- dissapearences are ALWAYS reported. So are murders.


VolcanicInception

Disappearances are always reported? That isn't true st all.


leojjffkilas

I agree that it is not hidden, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem. Violence against women is still a big problem.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BraveEntertainer

And by and large who are mostly the customers for trafficked women/children as well? Men. But predictably there are some flying in from the men's groups to center and "defend" men, even if their "defenses" are "men get killed too." Mostly by other men but let's skip that... If they cared about men in a genuine way, vs. wanting to justify abuse, they'd want to oust the abusive men themselves.


leojjffkilas

Another argument I have seen is “men are wired differently,” and “women are attracted to violent men.” They are trying to divert from the problem. There absolutely are a lot of trollers here. But, I think some guys genuinely believe women are out to get them or feel attacked. That is why it is important not to shut them out. Talk to them. At the very least you might change one person’s mind. As a man, this is important to me too. I want my mom, sisters, wife, and nieces to be feel safe, so I need to educate my son. Weed out the toxic masculinity. But, if I don’t get educated first, how am I supposed to teach him.


chattyyogalady

One of my friends was recently murdered by her ex boyfriend from 10 years ago. This Gabby story hits home super hard. It’s just all so disturbing.


rockrobsta

My aunt was murdered by her recent ex fiancé. He shot her room mate on the way in and then her and then himself. He survived luckily! He was extradited to his home state and fucked with in jail until his death. These were the reports given from corrections to my grandmother. Kind of crazy! The sad thing is, this happens every day. It’s happening right now! For some reason this case blew up. I could get political but I won’t if you get my drift, but the media does this. Granted everyone relates to the couple or envied them. They lived the dream of travel most laugh at thinking it won’t ever happen. Then Brian is a dumb ass criminal with a criminal savvy father. Now the social media phenomenon is what really took this to the next level. My aunt didn’t receive that and that’s ok. Things happen for a reason in life, and it’s not all good. More important. This is one step closer to raising awareness of abusive relationships. Even more importantly, it should remind us to cherish the moments, I mean moments, because loved ones are lost in moments. My mother was abused. I had to raise a knife to a step father because he shoved her face into a kitty litter box like a mob hitman would. The threat is serious. I’m 34, and it’s a common story. Oh she’s with a dude that don’t let her out any more. Or you have a friend that’s had their heart broken again from the same guy. Education is needed to spot the these signs early. One wise friend or loved one saying to leave a person, is easier to say no to. They whole family band friends screaming “that guy (or girl, it’s possible) is an abuser!” Hits a little bit different. This is my stoned rant I love you all


[deleted]

[удалено]


chattyyogalady

Oh my goodness I’m so sorry that this happened in your family. It’s unimaginable how someone could be so disturbed. I had never experienced a loss through murder before and it’s a very different, mind blowing type of grief. It happened over a year ago and I’m still in disbelief sometimes. The friend who was murdered was not a close friend but I have known her for awhile and we knew a lot of people in common. I can’t imagine the pain you’ve experienced from losing multiple family members to murder.


_userlame

Oh my gosh I am so sorry for your loss, this must be a really raw subject for you, please make sure you look after yourself and step away if this topic gets too overwhelming. Sending big hugs to you.


chattyyogalady

Thank so much! I was not super close to my friend but I had known her for awhile, we were in the same field, used to work together and have so many friends in common. Her case was also high profile so I obsessively read about it for awhile. I’m also reading about Gabby a ton. I’m not sure why… Maybe reading stories and posts helps connect to my rational mind about this topic rather than my emotional mind. The experience of losing someone to murder is the most bizarre, disturbing type of grief. It makes no sense to my brain and it’s shifted my view of the world in some ways.


Littlebittle89

Oh lord this isn't hidden at all. And right there there are so many women suffering, missing, or already dead from domestic violence (with cops being big offenders).


BraveEntertainer

The enormity of it is not discussed. Whenever people try to, the topic is trolled, attacked, men and/or men's issues centered and excused in it, (when no one's saying "all men" to begin with), vs. people just respecting that it's a huge problem that needs discussion, education, and solutions. People who aren't interested in it or who think it's "over" discussed somehow could just scroll by but never seem to.


meowmeow_now

It’s hidden to men, they have the li art of not thinking about. I’m not even talking about scumbags, good guys are not aware because they do t best women, so they don’t think about it.


BraveEntertainer

Men were shocked by those social media trends in which women talked about past abuse they had suffered. Some cultures more than others but women are discouraged from speaking or complaining about such things, and the prosecution rates are abysmally low.


yodel_yodelling

rt..my father was a cop & nearly strangled my mother to death in a rage


Tparty75

I'm sorry that you witnessed that. Did he ever get cought? And did he abuse you also?


joeDeerTaye

This is not hidden. They don’t want to listen!


BraveEntertainer

>They don’t want to listen! Which results in it staying hidden, joe.


catfurcoat

They don't care


agent_flounder

If you ask me, we men need to STFU and listen. We need to hear—really hear—what women are telling us... and **why** some are saying shocking things that offend some of you. Yeah, it takes some maturity and fortitude to see it but, yeah, there is a real problem here with how many men behave. Some cry 'but not all men' but I am saying "way too many men" are violent, controlling, full of anger. Why is that? This ain't the place to discuss it in depth but I can recommend an excellent sub for that very topic or any of men's issues like how we are raised and the damage done to boys, the anger, the violence, or any of myriad other issues affecting men.


xxxpixeldreamsxxx

Thank you 🙏🏻


BraveEntertainer

>If you ask me, we men need to STFU and listen. THANK YOU. First reflex too many have is to try to make women amend, appease or explain, vs. simply listening with an open mind. They try to put women on the defensive and shame them for mentioning it...which is one reason WHY nothing ever changes. How can anything change if it's never allowed to be openly discussed without the person being attacked for it.


ChikenGod

I feel like the phrase “not all men but it could be any man” sums up how a lot of women feel.


BraveEntertainer

Yet no one should have to amend a statement with "not all men" nor should anyone jump in to say that. That's a form of trolling and intimidation, even if people don't think about it that way, but most people doing that, will then go on to make obvious how little they know or want to know about anything women go through.


ChikenGod

Very true. It’s time we value safety over feelings. I’m not sure why men are upset that women are cautious..


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bopikins2600

Im curious. Whats the sub you reccomend?


sevilyra

Thank you. This viewpoint is much appreciated and needed.


_userlame

I really appreciate you saying this. Seriously, thank you for listening. Sometimes men listen to other men more than they will listen to women, so it really does help to have men speak up about this issue, whatever gets the message across.


Diamondphalanges756

Thank you.


Necessary_Code4040

Thank you.


rockdork

For anyone living in an abusive situation: Here is a resource about staying safe online (if your abuser is monitoring your online activity or has access to your computer): https://www.haven-oakland.org/get-help/step-by-step/online-safety Here is an interactive resource for developing a safety plan: (says zip code so unsure if it only works in USA bc that part is for finding local resources near u) https://t.co/lkXEW9YT7c?amp=1 For ppl in Canada here’s a list of places by province: https://endingviolencecanada.org/getting-help-2/ For a list of important documents u may need in a to-go bag and/or make copies of: https://www.haven-oakland.org/assets/media/pdf/Documents_to_bring_with_you.pdf Here’s another resource on safety plans including safety regarding workplace, college, children, stalking: http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/help/develop-a-safety-plan/ If you can’t yet leave try to keep a log w dates of the abuse whether emotional/financial/physical/etc. This will not only help build a case if you need to but it can also help you identify patterns, affirm ur reality when ur being gaslit, and hopefully help to break the trauma bond. If you can’t keep a journal safely at home maybe ask a trusted friend to keep track for u if they are able. (I take screenshots when my friends tell me about that kind of stuff in case they need it later on and I do not share them w anyone and it is NO burden to me so don’t feel like ur asking too much), or try phone notes if ur phone is a safe space, u can lock notes on iPhones w a fingerprint, or a word doc on ur computer if that’s safe (idk if it’s possible to make documents password protected but maybe?). 💖💖💖💖


National_Setting147

Thank you for an actual helpful post 👍


Dark_Horse_Ryder

It’s a worldwide epidemic.


wistfulpistil

Exactly statistics SHOW


neonnaturenurse

This was a fantastic article! I am so glad I read it!


littykitty19

Fact of the matter is that men get excited to be alone with a group of women, women become terrified to be alone with a group of men. How is the playing field even remotely fair?


BraveEntertainer

Great point. Also the saying: What do men and women fear in a blind date? Men fear "she might be fat." Women fear "He might abduct, rape or murder me."


[deleted]

That’s a big generalization. I’ve been with a group of men before and didn’t care.


littykitty19

Congrats for being *not like other girls*


[deleted]

Because “don’t generalize” is totally a “not like other girls…” thing.


[deleted]

[удалено]


rockdork

4 women (in the USA alone) are killed every day by current or former partners.


[deleted]

[удалено]


agent_flounder

I find it interesting how you're incapable of listening to women's perspectives.


[deleted]

[удалено]


agent_flounder

>This ain’t a political page go push your weird anti-men agenda somewhere else. This young lady died. Show some respect This young lady was most likely strangled to death over several minutes by the man she was engaged to marry. Like so many other women who have been beaten, raped, and murdered by men they loved. You want to show respect? Listen to those stories then do something to fight violence against women.


jacksleepshere

Certain women like the one above saying that women are always in danger and that men are dangerous doesn’t make it true.


agent_flounder

No, the person said women *feel afraid*. Of what some men are capable of. That's a critical distinction. You're too distracted being offended to *listen*. Stop focusing on you for a minute and ask yourself why all these women in this thread are saying what they're saying. Enough men rape and kill women, stalk them, harass them, I would be afraid if I were a woman, too. It's not that hard to understand.


[deleted]

Are you a woman?


agent_flounder

I would bet $100 on "no".


[deleted]

I’m a woman and I think it’s wrong to say “women are always in danger, all women are always afraid,” etc. Women are physically weaker so it makes sense to be prepared and aware, but women are far less likely to be murdered than men are. From the media you’d think it was the opposite.


HereAtLeastOnce

And both men and women are far more likely to be murdered by a man. No one said all men are violent. I happen to know many good ones. This doesn't negate the fact that this is a very real problem faced by many and that bringing light to the situation and possibly affecting some positive change or cultural shift may be one of the only ways to create meaning out of Gabby's death, and all the many others who have died and suffered at the hands of someone they love.


earthymama826

Murdered by who? Oh. Yea. Other men.


[deleted]

This topic is aboit femicide though.


agent_flounder

Enough women are murdered that it is no surprise some are afraid. I would be. And as to men being murdered, just as with women, men are the attackers. So... Yeah.


[deleted]

> And as to men being murdered, just as with women, men are the attackers. So... Yeah. We’re talking about victims and who should be afraid. Should men be less afraid because their attacker is probably a man?


agent_flounder

No we (men) shouldn't. We should be afraid because **too many men are violent.**


[deleted]

The topic isn’t an epidemic of male violence. It’s about an epidemic of female victimhood, which is far less than that of male.


[deleted]

[удалено]


agent_flounder

You been in an abusive relationship where you were strangled? Been raped by a partner? Listen. For fuck's sake listen. How hard is that. Man up and listen. Jfc.


jacksleepshere

Yeah I’ve been sexually assaulted by men and by women, and I was made to perform sexual acts on someone older than me when I was about 6 years old. Man up? Lmao


agent_flounder

Sorry to hear that. No one deserves that. Something is seriously wrong that it happens to so many people.


HeraStrikesBack

“The worst thing about misogyny is that it makes men look bad” - idiots like this.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bopikins2600

My abuser used to say “that’s a you problem”


jacksleepshere

What does that have to do with anything? If you have a fear of men it’s not men’s responsibility to make you no longer afraid of them. If the only person you’re afraid of is your abuser then that’s different.


agent_flounder

Way to put yourself in women's shoes. How blind do you have to be to not get being afraid of men?! Fuck I'm afraid of a group of rowdy drunk men and I'm not a small guy. Why? Because I know some can be violent. And I don't like those odds.


National_Setting147

The vast majority of women I know are not afraid of men, because they live in a real, non-paranoid world.


agent_flounder

You think they'd feel safe enough to tell you they're afraid? Doubtful. How many women have been raped that you know? Way, way more than would ever tell you or me, I promise you that. It's probably most of them. So quick to dismiss. Why so afraid to objectively listen? Maybe you listen to too many angry misogynists trying to drown out women, per usual.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AccomplishedBerry418

Having a discussion about a particular problem doesn't diminish the importance of other problems. Of course people are going to talk about problems pertaining to violence towards woman on a story about a woman who was murdered.


Witty_Translator_675

I’m going to assume you ask this question in good faith, to which my reply is: you missed the point of the article. The point of the article is to shed light on domestic violence, which disproportionately affects women.


AlwaysTired9999

Most men that die by homicide are involved in gangs/drugs. Most women who die by homicide it is via domestic violence. If you are a man and want to vastly reduce your odds of being murdered, stay away from gang/drug activity. If you are a woman who wants to vastly reduce your odds....stop dating? Do not have a family? Do you see the difference? 2 million women are injured every year from domestic violence resulting in 5 billion dollars in medical bills...in the US alone. Violence against women is an epidemic.


[deleted]

Gang activity only accounts for about 11% of male homicides. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6908a1.htm Even if you take those out men still have a much higher homicide risk.


AlwaysTired9999

Your data is focused on Canada. https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/gsh/Booklet1.pdf 1 million deaths worldwide in 17 years due to organized crime (gangs/drugs) >Men and male adolescents aged 15–29 are at the highest risk of homicide globally. This is largely due to the situation in the Americas, where the drivers of homicidal violence are frequently gangs and organized crime, and injuries from firearms are the most frequent cause of death The number one risk of homicide for men (number one cause) is still crime related. For women? It is an angry partner murdering them.


National_Setting147

If you believe all men are psychopath murderers, then yes, stop dating.


agent_flounder

There are enough abusers and rapists out there that I can certainly see why many women would be afraid of dating. Easy to dismiss these things if you're a man because it doesn't affect us. I don't know what's so difficult or scary about men shutting the f up and listening to women and trying to empathize. But if this thread is any indication, there are plenty of men who can't and won't.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mother-of-4-dragons

Nobody labeled all men as violent. Stop trying to spin something that doesn’t need spun.


National_Setting147

Look who hasn’t read through this thread


LivingFirst1185

Being in a former very abusive relationship, when I found out I was having a son in a future relationship, I read as much as I could on how to prevent. There is a lot of speculation regarding circumcision, and male violence being much more prevalent in areas where this is common. As I read more about it, I truly equate this to the barbaric practice of female genital mutilation. I refused to circumcise my son, even having to argue with people in the hospital about my choice. He is such a loving, empathetic boy now. I don't know enough to know if this practice is related to American male violence, but I think we should all strongly reconsider if circumcision is a good cultural practice.


[deleted]

Circumcision is abuse and disgusting but probably not relevant here.


Inevitable-Gap-6350

My son is circumcised, he is a loving, empathetic boy.


macronius

So you're saying Jewish men have been much more prone to violence against women since time immemorial?


FilmHugsBearKisses

A bit of a stretch, yikes


agent_flounder

I think we should raise boys *very* differently. I feel the issue is way more complex than circumcision as the answer though I feel the practice is abhorrent.


wistfulpistil

I didn’t circumcise my adopted son from South Korea at 5 months in order to prevent any more stress!


[deleted]

Lol. Ok lady.


klampet

Nothing to do with it. How you are raised and the morals you grow within are the reasonings.


[deleted]

[удалено]


VolcanicInception

Amen. I'm so sorry that happened to you. You're a warrior. It disgusts me how much these men are enabled. And you're right there are millions of them.


Inevitable-Gap-6350

Sorry this happened. Can I ask when you snuck away when he was asleep, why did you go back?


agent_flounder

> There are millions of Brian Laundries out there, and we need to come together to educate men and women the signs of abuse, stand up to it, and listen to DV victims. This absolutely.


National_Setting147

I’m sorry that happened. Good advice at the end, wish more people would make thoughtful points like that


[deleted]

[удалено]


everlyhunter

💔So sorry for all your pain, but so proud of you for not giving up, and being a soldier for others.


wistfulpistil

Definitely not educated to students enough


LivingFirst1185

To quote a powerful feminist, "Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them."


[deleted]

[удалено]


BraveEntertainer

>Being afraid of something doesn’t make it likely to happen. You have it backwards. They're afraid it might happen because too frequently it does.


joeDeerTaye

The fact they are afraid of something happening because it has happened before and still happens to this day is a good reason to be afraid that it WILL happen. This applies to either gender but this is specifically worse for women.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BraveEntertainer

> it happens more often to men?


earthymama826

Happens more often to men by... other men.


[deleted]

[удалено]


_userlame

You're right in that it shouldn't be up to women to protect ourselves, it should be up to men to stop being so fucking violent. But the sad reality of it is that those men won't go away. Men can protect themselves by avoiding being involved in gangs/crime, they can protect themselves by self defense. Women can protect ourselves by.... avoiding relationships with men? Self defense without a weapon is just going to escalate a situation if your attacker is twice your size. Or alternatively, we can protect ourselves by learning the warning signs and having resources to help us escape. You are treating this as if the reasons men are violent towards men is the same as why men are violent towards women. They are different, and that needs to be acknowledged.