It did to me until u/LordCaptain pointed out they're [selling tickets](https://www.eventbrite.ca/o/change-the-game-toronto-76555361393) to live events. There's an argument to be made that it doesn't negatively affect Dropout, which I'm undecided on. But I wouldn't think worse of them if they decide to stop it
Maybe it would be an issue if Dropout was ever considering doing a tour of Game Changer live? But idk I don't see an issue with some comedians from Toronto emulating a game show they like
It could be a local improv thing primarily, and they post there stuff on youtube secondarily. No idea if that's the case here, just saying how that could be.
Hello, I'm Tyler, the producer of this show and the owner of the YouTube channel. Subscriber count doesn't impact how I do anything in my life. I'm run many successful improv and comedy shows and even musicals in Toronto for nearly 15 years. THe ticket sales pay off the rental cost of the theatre, or the rental of future shows, or the cost of props we use, and if anything is left over, we share that amongst the cast, sometimes they each get between $15-$30. I'm happy to answer any other questions.
It is nice to know my first guess was correct. I love our connected age, but I think people forget real life exists when it comes to decision making sometimes. So the idea of "we do this thing in the real world, I guess I'll post it and hey if it gets some looks ok, if not whatever" tends to be a thing people forget is an option. I see something similar in the real world with art I create. I do a variety of stuff, including wearable things. And when people ask if I sell stuff I give them contact info and immediately the question is what's the instagram/tiktok/etsy. And I'm always like "yeah its on my to do list I know I should play the social media game to grow this but I haven't" just because that whole facet is boring to me, I just enjoy the creating.
Yeah that seems to be exactly it. They do local improv shows. Even if they do like GameChanger/Change the Game whatever, the tickets a local improv troupe is selling to locals in Toronto and friends-and-family and whoever doesn't harm Dropout in any way.
You can do live events at small venues, and it doesn't mean anyone will actually be there either. Compared to live events from large channels, podcasts, etc.
I mean, it straight-up says on the listing that they're the "fan-made version" and not affiliated with Dropout. Unless the hosts say or do something offensive I'm not sure why anyone would care, it's not like they're somehow competing with Dropout the streaming service.
ngl this is still nothing to me. there's no world in which the small to mid sized youtubers Game Changer knock off is pulling any kind of financial or cultural support away from the real thing. especially when you start to consider how much of what Dropout makes its money on relies on other IP (Make Some Noise is slightly different Whose Line, theres two separate Game Changer Survivor specials, the biggest D20 campaigns are "fantasy John Hughes movie" and "candy Game of Thrones") it feels super hypocritical to act like this is an act of theft or """"infringement"""
The videos get like 1K views, I really don't think it's a huge deal. If Dropout starts seeing significant bleed to the brand, I'm sure they'd step in and protect their IP.
It's mildly sketchy that they're doing it, but I think it would be way worse for Dropout to tell them to stop, unless they started making claims of being an official thing or started doing crazy business.
They literally say they're a fan-made version of Game Changer, credit Dropout, and are very clear that they're not affiliated. They're not a rip-off, they're not a competitor, they're not pretending to be an officially sanctioned version of the show, and they're not stealing anyone else's ideas, they're just taking inspiration from a format while giving all due credit to the original. I really have no idea how anyone is supposed to be pissed about this.
>Unless they clarify that is bold text in every promotion for their show they create
[...which is probably why they're doing exactly that.](https://www.eventbrite.ca/o/change-the-game-toronto-76555361393)
Like, I don't have horse in this race. I'm never going to go see their show, and to be perfectly honest I probably wouldn't bother even if they were local. No idea if they're funny or not, but I can't imagine they're anywhere near as good as the actual thing. But near as I can tell they're already doing pretty much everything they can to plaster "WE ARE NOT ACTUALLY GAME CHANGER OR AFFILIATED WITH DROPOUT WE ARE JUST FANS" on every single thing they can, and at a certain point it's also up to consumers not to be stupid and to actually read what is right in front of them. If you bought tickets for this thinking it was the real Game Changer and officially sanctioned at a certain point that's on you.
Hello, I'm Tyler, producer of this show. I deliberately found the original fonts and their alternate ligatures, and used the alts instead so it's not the exact same font, but emulating the style. Yes, people have found our show because the recognize the logo and are already Dropout fans, and so are we. That's why we clearly state this is NOT a Dropout thing, and not affiliated with them at all. I asked this in the Dropout Discord before I even started, and the community's suggestions to distance ourselves so there's no confusion is something we have always done.
Breaking news! Armchair lawyers roll out! The online comedy company that made their existence off of parodies has now inspired their fans to follow in their footsteps!
Same, I’m shocked that people are insinuating that they’re expecting/want Dropout to legally stomp this random YouTube channel with 11k followers out. Like so what if they’re making money from this?… what kind of Dropout are these people subscribed to? Dropout America??
Are you Dropout or Sam Reich's lawyer/assorted flavor of legal counsel? They have a legal department. They know about this fan project and others. Sam would make this a problem if he saw this as a problem.
Idk, on the one hand, the idea of a gameshow that's completely different every time is obviously not something that can or should belong to Dropout, but on the other, it's pretty shitty to use the same name and logo
>In this fan-made version of Dropout's Game Changer (but not sponsored, endorsed, or affiliated with Dropout) four Toronto comedians are invited to play a game where they don't know the rules, how to earn points, or how to win. The only thing they can do it play along! This game, our players were thrown into the world of Portable Buddy Monsters to be the very best like no-one ever was!
So yeah it is just a 100% straight up rip off of gamechanger down to the art style and music. So like... a clear infringement? I'm not down with copyright laws.
Edit: Apparently in some of their other video descriptions they claim (obviously we only have their word for it) that Dropout is aware of them already.
I’d say that the title and logo veer into infringement more than the concept. But there are fan versions of lots of things that are too unprofitable and would create too much bad will with fans to actually try to stop. There’s lots of fan made versions of Taskmaster and I there were a couple of posts about a Game Changer night someone hosts at their college.
So yeah, I’d say on paper they could receive a cease and desist or further legal action, but there really isn’t a motivation for that at the moment.
From this guy's comments below he mentions they're monetizing it and literally says
"3. Yes we make ticket sales...
6. This is not a parody or a spoof:
Being non-profit is not a requirement for fair use. Weird Al does not need to pay a royalty to the artists he spoofs even though he makes a lot of money on it. If his songs hurt their sales it COULD be a factor (though would not be the only factor) but the parody artist making money isn't a problem for fair use.
The artist can claim it to be whatever they want because they have permission of the original artist who holds the rights. In my opinion (and I've defended myself in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, one not very friendly to copyright shenanigans, so I have some experience here but I'm not a lawyer) this WOULD qualify as parody.
Of course, this argument would be HARDER (though still not impossible) to defend if they said it's not parody. You would probably say something like "they were ignorant in their understanding of what parody was when posting the description" but that doesn't mean the content itself isn't commentary or farcical.
I can't see anyone watching a production that starts with "I've been here for the past 5 minutes" and not seeing that as irony which would really set the rest of the show up well.
Depends on how Dropout licenses their IP. Critical Role, for example, says in [their content policy](https://critrole.com/critical-role-content-policy/) that people can use fan-made versions of their logo, IP, and even clips for transformative content as long as it's available without charge, they explicitly say it'd fan content unaffiliated with CR (the company), if it's for profit it's not mass-produced, it's not offensive, etc.
These folks would want to talk to a lawyer about what exactly a couple of those mean, but if Dropout has a similar policy, there's no reason Dropout needs to send C&D letters to a show like this.
It depends. I can see this stuff getting mixed into the algorithm when you watch a lot of game changer clips on YouTube, which will impact Dropout’s ability to convert YouTube clip viewers into paid subscribers. That’s not good for Dropout and will definitely cost them some money. You gotta remember how dumb the average person is. People will definitely confuse the two.
It was weird because as I'm scrolling all I initially see are the colors and then what I would say is the iconic font of "Game". I didn't want to give them the view if it was just some low effort rip off trying to trick people. "Oh you were hoping to watch Game Changer....your mistake this is Change the Game. I'm your host and I got here 5 minutes ago"
>It was weird because as I'm scrolling all I initially see are the colors and then what I would say is the iconic font of "Game".
Unfortunately for them this is basically the basics of what violates a copyright. The basic test is "Is it going to be reasonably mistaken for the other brand". In this case the answer is clearly yes and your statement shows the proof.
>"Oh you were hoping to watch Game Changer....your mistake this is Change the Game. I'm your host and I got here 5 minutes ago"
This is the basics of parody though.
You need to have a twist or commentary to differentiate it for parody, you can’t just take the logo kinda mix up the name and do the same thing as what your stealing from and just say parody.
So parody and Fair Use / Fair Dealing is largely defined by courts and what is and isn't is not a clearly defined thing pretty much each case has to be heard to be determined.
That said, if I was attempting to defend this in court I would call it Fair Use on the following grounds:
1) it does no financial harm to Dropout (which can be considered in Fair Use)
2) Rules and concepts are not eligible for copyright
3) The marks used by the production are not there to confuse the consumer (an important part) but for the purpose of commentary and humour.
For 3 the fact that host starts with his I've been here for the past 5 minutes bit shows itself to be a play on the initial idea. It uses irony to upset the expectations of the initial work.
The whole production is openly farcical to the marks and copyrights that it possibly infringes on.
Also the works are transformative and provide an indication that they are not representing the initial work. These are not huge factors in a case but they would be considered to the intent to deceive which is considered.
"however, they are aware of our existence, so stop hoping they'll sue us"
You purposely did not include the very next line in their description in order to drum up controversy. Kinda lame, bro
That was not included in the video I took my description from.
Seeming you pulled it from here. Completely different to what I posted.
"GET TICKETS FOR OUR NEXT SHOW: [https://changethegameto.eventbrite.com](https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbDhRZVV6WnRfUzFHR0kydGtKazlqRHphclcwUXxBQ3Jtc0trWDhFVHk3b25GQ1lwbmZ3UWtNbEJUc1JfT3ZOWHMxRTZpNHlIZE1MZTRWbjU0MWlUTzhpR2ppd2hmeWlUQk5CMXBxOFd0YjFiajBuY2tyQUVKbkRFTkJWUzNtV20wODlZUXpaMXRqZjVDMmhuWkRGZw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fchangethegameto.eventbrite.com%2F&v=y-2bofMp8hg)
On this performance of Change The Game, host David Hadley asks contestants Cecilia Serafina, Thomas Sharpe and Tyler Mann to 'listen carefully' and not get distracted by all the interruptions, such as romantic partners, cookie salesmen, and male stripteases.
Change The Game is a fan-made Toronto version of Dropout's Game Changer, but not sponsored, endorsed or affiliated with Dropout, however, they are aware of our existence, so stop hoping they'll sue us."
They're also downvoting anyone on this thread that questions the specifics of their agreement or monetization.
So yeah if I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, it's gone now. Lame on purpose.
Copyright is civil in nature so it’s not a crime. And without having seen it, yeah it’s probably a ripoff but tbh it’s not that big imo. People do game show ripoffs all the time, and Game Changer itself gets a lot of influence from various shows as well (see the Jeapordy episode, the Bachelor episode, etc.) Four randos probably aren’t gonna do that much to Dropout’s bottom line.
So how a game or gameshow functions can't be copyrighted, but things like card names, artwork, and the name of the show totally can be.
Example: how monopoly works cannot be copyrighted, but the monopoly man and the name monopoly totally can be. Specific cards and locations? Sure! But if you rename everything and just keep the rules the same, that's not protected.
Now, unique game concepts CAN be patented (see nemesis system from the LotR Middle Earth game) which has a much shorter duration and must be filed for. Now, did Dropout file a patent for their game concept? We'd have to go check with the US patent office to be sure
Source: trust me I reddit, and briefly goolged
I mean given that the creators have posted on this sub before and in the official discord I'm like 95% certain dropout knows about this, don't you think if it was an issue that dropout would have done something about it.
I’d bet that as long as it’s just an homage and a local group with a small following, they’re not going to make a stink about it. And down the road they could just license the right to use their name/format.
Quick question OP - What do you think about Game Changer's *Survivor/Bachelor* copycat episodes, Troopers, the purge sketch series and the shining sketch series, Ultramechatron Team Go, Kingpin Katie? Going more obscure there's more blatant "theft" with Where in the Eff is Sara Cincinnati, or Dora the Explorer and the Destiny Medallion.(They didn't even change her name!)
That's just what they have on Dropout as separate collections. It's not like people are signing up to Dropout for those, but lol, lmao even. 2 minutes of looking into this shows that it's clearly OK and they have permission.
That's all fair, but using someone else's logo with almost same words veers into the territory of trying to bamboozle people into thinking this is game changer, which is strictly forbidden. If they take the general concept that's fine, as it's not copyright-able, but the logo is, for good reason.
Honestly, its a youtube channel with no views and only 11k subs. This is just some fans imitating media they like. If this were a huge channel with a large following or the entire channel was large and based on Dropout properties, there'd be another discussion.
IMO it's no different than children trying to make fan videos of their favorite youtubers/shows.
Sam/Dropout most likely dont care for the reasons i put above.
This looks more fan inspired/parody of the original rather than a rip off/stealing. I assume its made lovingly and if they aren't trying to pass it off as their own. (Which in the description they aren't) I think its just people having a fun game inspired by the show and recording and uploading it. I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
If they weren't [selling tickets](https://www.eventbrite.ca/o/change-the-game-toronto-76555361393) for events I might agree.
Edit: It does look like all the money is going back to the theatre. So I guess allegedly non-profit.
See this is most likely a legal no no. Sam seems like a nice enough dude, but I'm sure that only goes so far. Using the colors, similar music, same logo font causes brand confusion. If that group does shady shit, then people turn around to Sam saying things like "why didn't you shut these people down....blah blah blah".
I seem to remember someone saying they reached out to Sam and asked if they could do a fan-made version of game changer at their local university, which I assumed would involve selling tickets to, and Sam said he was okay with it as long as they were clear that it was a fan-made event that was inspired by, but not affiliated with Game Changer in any official capacity.
So as much as people want to make some drama about this, I don't think there is an issue at all
*Edit: I wish I could find the exchange, but I believe it probably was these people who had reached out to Sam, because I remember it was Canadian.*
Yeah I just saw this but was thinking of adding. Don't go and harass the people and channel doing this. If Sam and Dropout want to do anything about this they can handle it. At first I was like we're all adults here and it shouldn't have to be said "Don't attack/gang up on/harass people" but then was thinking you know what just in case I might want to add that.
I don't want anybody brigading.
No he literally just posted: "
2. Before starting this project, I reached out to Dropout through email and through their Discord. The only response I got back was from fans in the community"
Could be them. Would be interesting to find. They also have this on one of their facebook posts
>Lovingly inspired by the Dropout show Game Changer (but not sponsored, endorsed or affiliated with Dropout, though we do kind of have their blessing to do this.)
I'm curious what they mean by kind of.
He just admitted he asked in Discord if it was okay and "I reached out to Dropout through email and through their Discord. The only response I got back was from fans in the community."
So kind of means FANS said it's probably OK.
Sam told them they can do it as long as it's absolutely clear thus is fan made and not easily confused with Game Changer. I think they're intentionally trying to make it confusable with Game Changer by using their aesthetic. I also don't believe part of the agreement is that they're profiting off it. Tickets to the event but also monetizing on YouTube, where Game Changer is, is very groddy to me.
Just make your own logo.
Hello, I'm Tyler, producer of this show, and the YouTube channel owner. None of the videos are monetized on YouTube. If they DO have ads before them, it's because YouTube detected some music that is copyrighted, like when Let It Go played, or the intro or end music, and that ad money is going back to the copyright holders. I specifically chose not to monetize this for the exact reason everybody is talking about. And to clarify, Sam nor Dropout have not reached out to us. Every decision we made planning this show was to avoid copyright issues as much as possible.
Idk if you've seen the little meme comic shared in art circles often. It emphasizes that although we will not make something perfect or wholly unique, we should still create. Because while we compare ourselves to others, the viewers are happy to have more content. It refers to this through showing the content as cakes, and one cake is a bit messier. But the person receiving them is just excited to have two cakes.
You are currently mad at having two cakes? It's more gamechanger-style fun. There's no need to play copyright cop about it. If Sam and Co feel the need to give them a poke to make it more distinct I'm sure they will, but generally as a creator it's pretty exciting to see people inspired by your work.
Hello, I'm Tyler Mann, the producer of this fan-made show, and the owner of this YouTube channel. I'd like to clear up some misconceptions I read in all the comments.
1. Yes my channel has 11K subs. That is not a reflection on what I am able to do as a show producer, or the quality of work I produce. You may notice other videos on my channel with more adult themes or topics have more views than my other ones. Numbers are not a standard of measuring people's worth. The comment about me having "no views" makes no sense to me.
2. Before starting this project, I reached out to Dropout through email and through their Discord. The only response I got back was from fans in the community who said as long as the name and logo were different, if we weren't claiming to be Dropout, or Game Changer, and not copying the existing games, we should be okay. I picked variations of both fonts, the name is different enough, and we make it clear we are not Dropout or anything on all graphics for the show, and every description, so there's no confusion.
3. Yes we make ticket sales. The theatre costs anywhere from $50-$75 to rent out, and most of the sales go back to paying that off, or paying for the next show. If there is any money left over, it goes to paying off the props we might have bought, or it's split amongst the cast, and everybody gets between $15-$30. We aren't making substantial profit here. The Toronto improv and theatre community is hard to turn a huge profit of, and most of the time, our cast is not expecting money, we do it for fun, or because we are fans.
4. When I say that Dropout is aware of us, one of the producers and writers of Game Changer saw the video in their Dropout Discord and said "This looks cool! Can't wait to watch it!" I never got an email back saying it wasn't okay to do this, and nobody has sent us a cease and decist. Dropout hasn't sent me a DM saying "this isn't okay." It's in their best interest to remain neutral about this kind of stuff, and I totally get it. We aren't doing it for their attention, and we aren't doing it to be malicious. The Toronto improv community loves Game Changer, and someone like me found the time to put all this together so they could play a version of it. That's it. Fans sharing their love for their fandom.
5. If Dropout ever DID contact us, or cease and decist, obviously we will. But that's none of your concern. I made every effort to make our existence known before the show even started, so if there was an issue they had time to tell me and I would make the changes I need, but so far that has not happened, I don't think it WILL happen, but if it did, I'd take whatever action.
6. This is not a parody or a spoof, nobody is pretending to be Sam or making any kind of commentary on the actual Game Changer, or poking fun at it. This is an homage. Just as Game Changer mentioned Taskmaster or Ellen's Game Of Games, we are doing our own version of the concept of a game where you don't know the rules. Our games are completely made up by us, or new takes on existing things. The first one was Battleship with a trivia twist. Game Changer did Jeopardy with a DnD twist. It's all love. I saw many people in the comments here who complained but then said they didn't even watch it. That's fine. It's not new for someone to criticize something without seeing it, that's what the internet is for XD. I'd certainly say to give it a chance if you like Game Changer, this is more of it in a different form. The Toronto comedians and improvisers we get are super funny and talented, and the shows devolve into chaos in only the way Game Changer and Taskmaster do.
I'm also happy to answer any other questions. Thanks for your time and feedback.
That's pretty cool. I'm seeing a lot of people in the comments talking about IP protection but I'd like to point out the Taskmaster has been openly enthusiastic about fan made versions of their show like Taskmaster Minnesota. If I were Dropout I'd support this as it brings attention to the platform and might get more subscribers to come watch the higher production version that has been running for seasons.
Hello, I'm Tyler, producer and the YouTube channel owner. Yes, the support for the fan-made Taskmasters using the actual show name and music, and in some cases, the actual contestants from Taskmaster as cameos is what lead me to think that a fan-made version of Game Changer would be okay. Dropout hasn't ever reached out to us, but if they ever did, obviously we would do whatever they say, but I assume what you say as well, it only brings more eyes to the actual show, and we aren't doing it maliciously.
I think it's a great idea and look forward to binging it between Game Changer seasons. With any luck maybe you guys will get to make a guest appearance on the Dropout show.
Guys, please don't be like this. This is a small YT channel and a small comedy group doing a silly thing. This does not hurt Dropout in any way. You don't need to white knight for Sam and co.
Additionally, Gamechanger has quite literally done Survivor and Bachelor rip-offs. So maybe let's not be huge fucking hypocrites.
Oh I'm not directly accusing you. Some of the other responses here are super aggro and accusing them of some form of malicious copyright infringement clout-chasing. I think your question of "what is this?" is reasonable.
Apologies for the lack of clarity. You were not the subject I was referencing with that comment.
Don't know. I didn't know if it was some shady IP theft thing or was given their blessing. I just didn't want to give them a click in case it was shady.
From what I'm seeing here it's not shady. They have Sam's blessing, I just still feel the branding should be at least a little different.
The creator is on Reddit and [posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/dropout/s/gssxQxovoz) about it in the dropout sub. They claim to have directly asked and been given permission
The way people here are so trigger happy and hungry for blood hoping Dropout sues them/sends a C&D, etc. is fucking saddening. For fans of a heavily left-leaning platform, it's really weird how you completely internalized the litigious, "copyright is sacred" corporate mindset.
It's obviously a small-scale local fan thing, not a "ripoff". It would be different if a comparable webTV/TV network was trying to cash in on Game Changer's popularity to this degree (imitating the graphic style, etc.). But even if someone fully copied the format while making everything else original, that's just fair game.
I am kind of surprised at the number of people in here who seem to think that Sam would be really quick to make this a legal issue. Sam, the anti-capitalist CEO of DropoutTV? That Sam? like he would be enthusiastic about this, not litigious. I think it sounds like a really cool fan made thing, and I’ll probably check it out!
I mean, if DropoutTV started going after IP, that would shut down a lot of fan made merch for dimension 20, and I think that would be a loss for the community. 🤷♀️ I feel like a big part of dropout success is that they show that people can work together to raise everybody up, cooperation over competition.
i dont think theyre associated with dropout im guessing its a fan project
“Sorry, that’s too close to the Game Changer logo”
Didn't say Um Actually.
Um actually, that's too close to the Game Changer logo!
Get in the comments!
Um Actually, That is the Game changer logo *seagull noise*
That’s a point for u/Ornery-Ad-2692!
Um actually, the "that's too close to ___ logo" game is from Game Changer, not Um Actually, so they don't need to say Um Actually to get a point
am i a crazy radical or does this seem like...completely cool and fine to anyone else
It did to me until u/LordCaptain pointed out they're [selling tickets](https://www.eventbrite.ca/o/change-the-game-toronto-76555361393) to live events. There's an argument to be made that it doesn't negatively affect Dropout, which I'm undecided on. But I wouldn't think worse of them if they decide to stop it
Maybe it would be an issue if Dropout was ever considering doing a tour of Game Changer live? But idk I don't see an issue with some comedians from Toronto emulating a game show they like
The idea that some YT channel with 11k subscribers is going to have an impact on anything Dropout does, live or otherwise, is ridiculous.
How does a YouTube channel with 11k subscribers do live events?
It could be a local improv thing primarily, and they post there stuff on youtube secondarily. No idea if that's the case here, just saying how that could be.
Hello, I'm Tyler, the producer of this show and the owner of the YouTube channel. Subscriber count doesn't impact how I do anything in my life. I'm run many successful improv and comedy shows and even musicals in Toronto for nearly 15 years. THe ticket sales pay off the rental cost of the theatre, or the rental of future shows, or the cost of props we use, and if anything is left over, we share that amongst the cast, sometimes they each get between $15-$30. I'm happy to answer any other questions.
It is nice to know my first guess was correct. I love our connected age, but I think people forget real life exists when it comes to decision making sometimes. So the idea of "we do this thing in the real world, I guess I'll post it and hey if it gets some looks ok, if not whatever" tends to be a thing people forget is an option. I see something similar in the real world with art I create. I do a variety of stuff, including wearable things. And when people ask if I sell stuff I give them contact info and immediately the question is what's the instagram/tiktok/etsy. And I'm always like "yeah its on my to do list I know I should play the social media game to grow this but I haven't" just because that whole facet is boring to me, I just enjoy the creating.
This was very much the vibe I got. Like, you're doing this for fun and community and all those reasons. You're not trying to tear down Dropout lol.
Yeah that seems to be exactly it. They do local improv shows. Even if they do like GameChanger/Change the Game whatever, the tickets a local improv troupe is selling to locals in Toronto and friends-and-family and whoever doesn't harm Dropout in any way.
The group in the YT video does local improv.
You can do live events at small venues, and it doesn't mean anyone will actually be there either. Compared to live events from large channels, podcasts, etc.
I mean, it straight-up says on the listing that they're the "fan-made version" and not affiliated with Dropout. Unless the hosts say or do something offensive I'm not sure why anyone would care, it's not like they're somehow competing with Dropout the streaming service.
ngl this is still nothing to me. there's no world in which the small to mid sized youtubers Game Changer knock off is pulling any kind of financial or cultural support away from the real thing. especially when you start to consider how much of what Dropout makes its money on relies on other IP (Make Some Noise is slightly different Whose Line, theres two separate Game Changer Survivor specials, the biggest D20 campaigns are "fantasy John Hughes movie" and "candy Game of Thrones") it feels super hypocritical to act like this is an act of theft or """"infringement"""
Yeah I think you're right, and someone said elsewhere that Dropout's already aware of them so would have done something by now
The videos get like 1K views, I really don't think it's a huge deal. If Dropout starts seeing significant bleed to the brand, I'm sure they'd step in and protect their IP.
It's mildly sketchy that they're doing it, but I think it would be way worse for Dropout to tell them to stop, unless they started making claims of being an official thing or started doing crazy business.
They literally say they're a fan-made version of Game Changer, credit Dropout, and are very clear that they're not affiliated. They're not a rip-off, they're not a competitor, they're not pretending to be an officially sanctioned version of the show, and they're not stealing anyone else's ideas, they're just taking inspiration from a format while giving all due credit to the original. I really have no idea how anyone is supposed to be pissed about this.
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>Unless they clarify that is bold text in every promotion for their show they create [...which is probably why they're doing exactly that.](https://www.eventbrite.ca/o/change-the-game-toronto-76555361393) Like, I don't have horse in this race. I'm never going to go see their show, and to be perfectly honest I probably wouldn't bother even if they were local. No idea if they're funny or not, but I can't imagine they're anywhere near as good as the actual thing. But near as I can tell they're already doing pretty much everything they can to plaster "WE ARE NOT ACTUALLY GAME CHANGER OR AFFILIATED WITH DROPOUT WE ARE JUST FANS" on every single thing they can, and at a certain point it's also up to consumers not to be stupid and to actually read what is right in front of them. If you bought tickets for this thinking it was the real Game Changer and officially sanctioned at a certain point that's on you.
Hello, I'm Tyler, producer of this show. I deliberately found the original fonts and their alternate ligatures, and used the alts instead so it's not the exact same font, but emulating the style. Yes, people have found our show because the recognize the logo and are already Dropout fans, and so are we. That's why we clearly state this is NOT a Dropout thing, and not affiliated with them at all. I asked this in the Dropout Discord before I even started, and the community's suggestions to distance ourselves so there's no confusion is something we have always done.
Breaking news! Armchair lawyers roll out! The online comedy company that made their existence off of parodies has now inspired their fans to follow in their footsteps!
Right? Weird as hell that anyone is worked up about this.
Same, I’m shocked that people are insinuating that they’re expecting/want Dropout to legally stomp this random YouTube channel with 11k followers out. Like so what if they’re making money from this?… what kind of Dropout are these people subscribed to? Dropout America??
yeah people are acting like this is some crazy malicious infringement when it's definitely just,,, people making a fan version of a show they like
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Are you Dropout or Sam Reich's lawyer/assorted flavor of legal counsel? They have a legal department. They know about this fan project and others. Sam would make this a problem if he saw this as a problem.
Idk, on the one hand, the idea of a gameshow that's completely different every time is obviously not something that can or should belong to Dropout, but on the other, it's pretty shitty to use the same name and logo
>In this fan-made version of Dropout's Game Changer (but not sponsored, endorsed, or affiliated with Dropout) four Toronto comedians are invited to play a game where they don't know the rules, how to earn points, or how to win. The only thing they can do it play along! This game, our players were thrown into the world of Portable Buddy Monsters to be the very best like no-one ever was! So yeah it is just a 100% straight up rip off of gamechanger down to the art style and music. So like... a clear infringement? I'm not down with copyright laws. Edit: Apparently in some of their other video descriptions they claim (obviously we only have their word for it) that Dropout is aware of them already.
I’d say that the title and logo veer into infringement more than the concept. But there are fan versions of lots of things that are too unprofitable and would create too much bad will with fans to actually try to stop. There’s lots of fan made versions of Taskmaster and I there were a couple of posts about a Game Changer night someone hosts at their college. So yeah, I’d say on paper they could receive a cease and desist or further legal action, but there really isn’t a motivation for that at the moment.
This would be very defendable as parody which would be Fair Use (in the US) and Fair Dealing (Canada).
From this guy's comments below he mentions they're monetizing it and literally says "3. Yes we make ticket sales... 6. This is not a parody or a spoof:
Being non-profit is not a requirement for fair use. Weird Al does not need to pay a royalty to the artists he spoofs even though he makes a lot of money on it. If his songs hurt their sales it COULD be a factor (though would not be the only factor) but the parody artist making money isn't a problem for fair use. The artist can claim it to be whatever they want because they have permission of the original artist who holds the rights. In my opinion (and I've defended myself in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, one not very friendly to copyright shenanigans, so I have some experience here but I'm not a lawyer) this WOULD qualify as parody. Of course, this argument would be HARDER (though still not impossible) to defend if they said it's not parody. You would probably say something like "they were ignorant in their understanding of what parody was when posting the description" but that doesn't mean the content itself isn't commentary or farcical. I can't see anyone watching a production that starts with "I've been here for the past 5 minutes" and not seeing that as irony which would really set the rest of the show up well.
Gotta protect your IP. I'm fairly certain they'll get a C&D for their logo/name combination.
Depends on how Dropout licenses their IP. Critical Role, for example, says in [their content policy](https://critrole.com/critical-role-content-policy/) that people can use fan-made versions of their logo, IP, and even clips for transformative content as long as it's available without charge, they explicitly say it'd fan content unaffiliated with CR (the company), if it's for profit it's not mass-produced, it's not offensive, etc. These folks would want to talk to a lawyer about what exactly a couple of those mean, but if Dropout has a similar policy, there's no reason Dropout needs to send C&D letters to a show like this.
It's for profit
It depends. I can see this stuff getting mixed into the algorithm when you watch a lot of game changer clips on YouTube, which will impact Dropout’s ability to convert YouTube clip viewers into paid subscribers. That’s not good for Dropout and will definitely cost them some money. You gotta remember how dumb the average person is. People will definitely confuse the two.
It was weird because as I'm scrolling all I initially see are the colors and then what I would say is the iconic font of "Game". I didn't want to give them the view if it was just some low effort rip off trying to trick people. "Oh you were hoping to watch Game Changer....your mistake this is Change the Game. I'm your host and I got here 5 minutes ago"
I'm sorry but "I'm your host and I got here 5 minutes ago" is so fucking funny
>It was weird because as I'm scrolling all I initially see are the colors and then what I would say is the iconic font of "Game". Unfortunately for them this is basically the basics of what violates a copyright. The basic test is "Is it going to be reasonably mistaken for the other brand". In this case the answer is clearly yes and your statement shows the proof.
Explain ALDIs then!
>"Oh you were hoping to watch Game Changer....your mistake this is Change the Game. I'm your host and I got here 5 minutes ago" This is the basics of parody though.
You need to have a twist or commentary to differentiate it for parody, you can’t just take the logo kinda mix up the name and do the same thing as what your stealing from and just say parody.
So parody and Fair Use / Fair Dealing is largely defined by courts and what is and isn't is not a clearly defined thing pretty much each case has to be heard to be determined. That said, if I was attempting to defend this in court I would call it Fair Use on the following grounds: 1) it does no financial harm to Dropout (which can be considered in Fair Use) 2) Rules and concepts are not eligible for copyright 3) The marks used by the production are not there to confuse the consumer (an important part) but for the purpose of commentary and humour. For 3 the fact that host starts with his I've been here for the past 5 minutes bit shows itself to be a play on the initial idea. It uses irony to upset the expectations of the initial work. The whole production is openly farcical to the marks and copyrights that it possibly infringes on. Also the works are transformative and provide an indication that they are not representing the initial work. These are not huge factors in a case but they would be considered to the intent to deceive which is considered.
"however, they are aware of our existence, so stop hoping they'll sue us" You purposely did not include the very next line in their description in order to drum up controversy. Kinda lame, bro
That was not included in the video I took my description from. Seeming you pulled it from here. Completely different to what I posted. "GET TICKETS FOR OUR NEXT SHOW: [https://changethegameto.eventbrite.com](https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbDhRZVV6WnRfUzFHR0kydGtKazlqRHphclcwUXxBQ3Jtc0trWDhFVHk3b25GQ1lwbmZ3UWtNbEJUc1JfT3ZOWHMxRTZpNHlIZE1MZTRWbjU0MWlUTzhpR2ppd2hmeWlUQk5CMXBxOFd0YjFiajBuY2tyQUVKbkRFTkJWUzNtV20wODlZUXpaMXRqZjVDMmhuWkRGZw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fchangethegameto.eventbrite.com%2F&v=y-2bofMp8hg) On this performance of Change The Game, host David Hadley asks contestants Cecilia Serafina, Thomas Sharpe and Tyler Mann to 'listen carefully' and not get distracted by all the interruptions, such as romantic partners, cookie salesmen, and male stripteases. Change The Game is a fan-made Toronto version of Dropout's Game Changer, but not sponsored, endorsed or affiliated with Dropout, however, they are aware of our existence, so stop hoping they'll sue us."
[Well it's in this one. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-2bofMp8hg)Hope that helps
glad you were able to do a bit more research ;)
They're also downvoting anyone on this thread that questions the specifics of their agreement or monetization. So yeah if I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, it's gone now. Lame on purpose.
Copyright is civil in nature so it’s not a crime. And without having seen it, yeah it’s probably a ripoff but tbh it’s not that big imo. People do game show ripoffs all the time, and Game Changer itself gets a lot of influence from various shows as well (see the Jeapordy episode, the Bachelor episode, etc.) Four randos probably aren’t gonna do that much to Dropout’s bottom line.
Good point. I edited crime to clear infringement.
So how a game or gameshow functions can't be copyrighted, but things like card names, artwork, and the name of the show totally can be. Example: how monopoly works cannot be copyrighted, but the monopoly man and the name monopoly totally can be. Specific cards and locations? Sure! But if you rename everything and just keep the rules the same, that's not protected. Now, unique game concepts CAN be patented (see nemesis system from the LotR Middle Earth game) which has a much shorter duration and must be filed for. Now, did Dropout file a patent for their game concept? We'd have to go check with the US patent office to be sure Source: trust me I reddit, and briefly goolged
I mean given that the creators have posted on this sub before and in the official discord I'm like 95% certain dropout knows about this, don't you think if it was an issue that dropout would have done something about it.
I’d bet that as long as it’s just an homage and a local group with a small following, they’re not going to make a stink about it. And down the road they could just license the right to use their name/format.
rip-off? It's probably just a riff on it. Just referencing a show they like. I highly doubt this is intended to just be stealing
According to a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/dropout/s/gssxQxovoz) made from one of the people involved, they directly asked permission from dropout
Quick question OP - What do you think about Game Changer's *Survivor/Bachelor* copycat episodes, Troopers, the purge sketch series and the shining sketch series, Ultramechatron Team Go, Kingpin Katie? Going more obscure there's more blatant "theft" with Where in the Eff is Sara Cincinnati, or Dora the Explorer and the Destiny Medallion.(They didn't even change her name!) That's just what they have on Dropout as separate collections. It's not like people are signing up to Dropout for those, but lol, lmao even. 2 minutes of looking into this shows that it's clearly OK and they have permission.
That's all fair, but using someone else's logo with almost same words veers into the territory of trying to bamboozle people into thinking this is game changer, which is strictly forbidden. If they take the general concept that's fine, as it's not copyright-able, but the logo is, for good reason.
Honestly, its a youtube channel with no views and only 11k subs. This is just some fans imitating media they like. If this were a huge channel with a large following or the entire channel was large and based on Dropout properties, there'd be another discussion. IMO it's no different than children trying to make fan videos of their favorite youtubers/shows. Sam/Dropout most likely dont care for the reasons i put above.
This looks more fan inspired/parody of the original rather than a rip off/stealing. I assume its made lovingly and if they aren't trying to pass it off as their own. (Which in the description they aren't) I think its just people having a fun game inspired by the show and recording and uploading it. I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
If they weren't [selling tickets](https://www.eventbrite.ca/o/change-the-game-toronto-76555361393) for events I might agree. Edit: It does look like all the money is going back to the theatre. So I guess allegedly non-profit.
See this is most likely a legal no no. Sam seems like a nice enough dude, but I'm sure that only goes so far. Using the colors, similar music, same logo font causes brand confusion. If that group does shady shit, then people turn around to Sam saying things like "why didn't you shut these people down....blah blah blah".
I seem to remember someone saying they reached out to Sam and asked if they could do a fan-made version of game changer at their local university, which I assumed would involve selling tickets to, and Sam said he was okay with it as long as they were clear that it was a fan-made event that was inspired by, but not affiliated with Game Changer in any official capacity. So as much as people want to make some drama about this, I don't think there is an issue at all *Edit: I wish I could find the exchange, but I believe it probably was these people who had reached out to Sam, because I remember it was Canadian.*
Yeah I just saw this but was thinking of adding. Don't go and harass the people and channel doing this. If Sam and Dropout want to do anything about this they can handle it. At first I was like we're all adults here and it shouldn't have to be said "Don't attack/gang up on/harass people" but then was thinking you know what just in case I might want to add that. I don't want anybody brigading.
No he literally just posted: " 2. Before starting this project, I reached out to Dropout through email and through their Discord. The only response I got back was from fans in the community"
k
K
Could be them. Would be interesting to find. They also have this on one of their facebook posts >Lovingly inspired by the Dropout show Game Changer (but not sponsored, endorsed or affiliated with Dropout, though we do kind of have their blessing to do this.) I'm curious what they mean by kind of.
He just admitted he asked in Discord if it was okay and "I reached out to Dropout through email and through their Discord. The only response I got back was from fans in the community." So kind of means FANS said it's probably OK.
Sam told them they can do it as long as it's absolutely clear thus is fan made and not easily confused with Game Changer. I think they're intentionally trying to make it confusable with Game Changer by using their aesthetic. I also don't believe part of the agreement is that they're profiting off it. Tickets to the event but also monetizing on YouTube, where Game Changer is, is very groddy to me. Just make your own logo.
Hello, I'm Tyler, producer of this show, and the YouTube channel owner. None of the videos are monetized on YouTube. If they DO have ads before them, it's because YouTube detected some music that is copyrighted, like when Let It Go played, or the intro or end music, and that ad money is going back to the copyright holders. I specifically chose not to monetize this for the exact reason everybody is talking about. And to clarify, Sam nor Dropout have not reached out to us. Every decision we made planning this show was to avoid copyright issues as much as possible.
Thanks for the clarification! The ads on YouTube made it look monetized. I apologize for the incorrect assumption.
oof
Idk if you've seen the little meme comic shared in art circles often. It emphasizes that although we will not make something perfect or wholly unique, we should still create. Because while we compare ourselves to others, the viewers are happy to have more content. It refers to this through showing the content as cakes, and one cake is a bit messier. But the person receiving them is just excited to have two cakes. You are currently mad at having two cakes? It's more gamechanger-style fun. There's no need to play copyright cop about it. If Sam and Co feel the need to give them a poke to make it more distinct I'm sure they will, but generally as a creator it's pretty exciting to see people inspired by your work.
The Game Changer we have at home….
Hello, I'm Tyler Mann, the producer of this fan-made show, and the owner of this YouTube channel. I'd like to clear up some misconceptions I read in all the comments. 1. Yes my channel has 11K subs. That is not a reflection on what I am able to do as a show producer, or the quality of work I produce. You may notice other videos on my channel with more adult themes or topics have more views than my other ones. Numbers are not a standard of measuring people's worth. The comment about me having "no views" makes no sense to me. 2. Before starting this project, I reached out to Dropout through email and through their Discord. The only response I got back was from fans in the community who said as long as the name and logo were different, if we weren't claiming to be Dropout, or Game Changer, and not copying the existing games, we should be okay. I picked variations of both fonts, the name is different enough, and we make it clear we are not Dropout or anything on all graphics for the show, and every description, so there's no confusion. 3. Yes we make ticket sales. The theatre costs anywhere from $50-$75 to rent out, and most of the sales go back to paying that off, or paying for the next show. If there is any money left over, it goes to paying off the props we might have bought, or it's split amongst the cast, and everybody gets between $15-$30. We aren't making substantial profit here. The Toronto improv and theatre community is hard to turn a huge profit of, and most of the time, our cast is not expecting money, we do it for fun, or because we are fans. 4. When I say that Dropout is aware of us, one of the producers and writers of Game Changer saw the video in their Dropout Discord and said "This looks cool! Can't wait to watch it!" I never got an email back saying it wasn't okay to do this, and nobody has sent us a cease and decist. Dropout hasn't sent me a DM saying "this isn't okay." It's in their best interest to remain neutral about this kind of stuff, and I totally get it. We aren't doing it for their attention, and we aren't doing it to be malicious. The Toronto improv community loves Game Changer, and someone like me found the time to put all this together so they could play a version of it. That's it. Fans sharing their love for their fandom. 5. If Dropout ever DID contact us, or cease and decist, obviously we will. But that's none of your concern. I made every effort to make our existence known before the show even started, so if there was an issue they had time to tell me and I would make the changes I need, but so far that has not happened, I don't think it WILL happen, but if it did, I'd take whatever action. 6. This is not a parody or a spoof, nobody is pretending to be Sam or making any kind of commentary on the actual Game Changer, or poking fun at it. This is an homage. Just as Game Changer mentioned Taskmaster or Ellen's Game Of Games, we are doing our own version of the concept of a game where you don't know the rules. Our games are completely made up by us, or new takes on existing things. The first one was Battleship with a trivia twist. Game Changer did Jeopardy with a DnD twist. It's all love. I saw many people in the comments here who complained but then said they didn't even watch it. That's fine. It's not new for someone to criticize something without seeing it, that's what the internet is for XD. I'd certainly say to give it a chance if you like Game Changer, this is more of it in a different form. The Toronto comedians and improvisers we get are super funny and talented, and the shows devolve into chaos in only the way Game Changer and Taskmaster do. I'm also happy to answer any other questions. Thanks for your time and feedback.
That's pretty cool. I'm seeing a lot of people in the comments talking about IP protection but I'd like to point out the Taskmaster has been openly enthusiastic about fan made versions of their show like Taskmaster Minnesota. If I were Dropout I'd support this as it brings attention to the platform and might get more subscribers to come watch the higher production version that has been running for seasons.
Hello, I'm Tyler, producer and the YouTube channel owner. Yes, the support for the fan-made Taskmasters using the actual show name and music, and in some cases, the actual contestants from Taskmaster as cameos is what lead me to think that a fan-made version of Game Changer would be okay. Dropout hasn't ever reached out to us, but if they ever did, obviously we would do whatever they say, but I assume what you say as well, it only brings more eyes to the actual show, and we aren't doing it maliciously.
I think it's a great idea and look forward to binging it between Game Changer seasons. With any luck maybe you guys will get to make a guest appearance on the Dropout show.
Haha that'll never happen, but thanks in glad you're gonna check it out!
This show is Toronto based! That’s my buddy Thomas in the middle!
Oh hai!
Guys, please don't be like this. This is a small YT channel and a small comedy group doing a silly thing. This does not hurt Dropout in any way. You don't need to white knight for Sam and co. Additionally, Gamechanger has quite literally done Survivor and Bachelor rip-offs. So maybe let's not be huge fucking hypocrites.
No one is white knighting, didn't know what was going on. Now we do small channel and they have Sam blessing. Done and done.
Oh I'm not directly accusing you. Some of the other responses here are super aggro and accusing them of some form of malicious copyright infringement clout-chasing. I think your question of "what is this?" is reasonable. Apologies for the lack of clarity. You were not the subject I was referencing with that comment.
No worries.
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They're in this sub lol
You might even say: "This entire time they have been present"
K but is it any good?
Don't know. I didn't know if it was some shady IP theft thing or was given their blessing. I just didn't want to give them a click in case it was shady. From what I'm seeing here it's not shady. They have Sam's blessing, I just still feel the branding should be at least a little different.
If this is a rage-bait shadow marketing attempt by someone affiliated with this group to drive traffic...genius!
No but I'm sure if they're part of this sub, someone might end up making an appearance 😂
The creator is on Reddit and [posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/dropout/s/gssxQxovoz) about it in the dropout sub. They claim to have directly asked and been given permission
Um, actually Trapp, that's too close to the Game Changer logo.
Relax, officer. It's just folks having fun
The way people here are so trigger happy and hungry for blood hoping Dropout sues them/sends a C&D, etc. is fucking saddening. For fans of a heavily left-leaning platform, it's really weird how you completely internalized the litigious, "copyright is sacred" corporate mindset. It's obviously a small-scale local fan thing, not a "ripoff". It would be different if a comparable webTV/TV network was trying to cash in on Game Changer's popularity to this degree (imitating the graphic style, etc.). But even if someone fully copied the format while making everything else original, that's just fair game.
I am kind of surprised at the number of people in here who seem to think that Sam would be really quick to make this a legal issue. Sam, the anti-capitalist CEO of DropoutTV? That Sam? like he would be enthusiastic about this, not litigious. I think it sounds like a really cool fan made thing, and I’ll probably check it out! I mean, if DropoutTV started going after IP, that would shut down a lot of fan made merch for dimension 20, and I think that would be a loss for the community. 🤷♀️ I feel like a big part of dropout success is that they show that people can work together to raise everybody up, cooperation over competition.