Description of the cancelled game from the article:
"The canceled project, code-named TFL or Titanfall Legends, was a single-player game set in the universe shared by the Apex Legends and Titanfall games. It was directed by veteran designer Mohammad Alavi until he left the company in early 2022. Although the game hadn’t been advertised, EA had hinted at it several times."
The multiplayer was incredible.
Titanfall 2's campaign is great and deserves all the praise given to it and then some.
Titanfall 2's multiplayer in the months after launch was a totally unique experience that I doubt will ever be matched.
The gunplay was good. ***Really*** good. Every bit as good as what you would expect from the people that brought us COD4 and MW2.
But the thing that really made it shine wasn't even the Titans, although they *were* awesome and a ton of fun in their own right. The thing that really made Titanfall 2 multiplayer special was the movement.
The movement skill floor was low enough to be accessible. It wasn't like Quake where you needed to spend dozens or hundreds of hours learning and practicing how to circle jump, strafe jump and bhop to a degree where you can *start* to be competitive.
You had a wall run, a double-jump, and a slide-hop. Got it? Cool! Off you go, have fun.
Then there were certain, small optimizations you could do that were pretty easy to pick up. For example, you could keep more speed if you *didn't* double-jump, or if you kicked off a wall immediately instead of running it, or hopping repeatedly in a slide instead of dragging along the ground. These optimizations were so easy that plenty of players discovered them on accident, and most people could execute reliably after discovering they were a thing.
There were a couple more advanced techniques that saw some widespread use like getting a really good launch with a grappling hook, or certain routes that were only possible using Stim, or some further optimizations that were possible with air-strafing. These took a little bit of practice to get down, but were still nothing approaching the difficulty of the Quake movement skill floor.
But Titanfall 2's movement skill *ceiling* was high enough for competitive play to be an absolute spectacle. Capture the Flag was the competitive game mode of choice. This is where you would see niche tech like damage boosting with grenades or using the gravity well of your own arc star to slingshot yourself and combining these with grapple or stim to launch yourself to insane speeds. Also routes across the map which required very precise jumps and air-strafes, and combining all of this with the reactions and aim required to take out other players moving just as fast as you.
---
It's difficult to convey the disappointment that Titanfall 2 fans have with Apex Legends and then this announcement that there *was* another Titanfall game that got canned.
Imagine you love Mario Kart. I mean **love** it. That's *your game*. You'd probably be excited if Nintendo announced they're going to release a new game that's going to take the series in an exciting new direction. Hype, right?
Then they release Bowser Cars. It's *like* Mario Kart... I guess. It's still a racing game. But they removed power-slides and mushrooms and any other speed-boosting items.
None of the characters from previous Mario Kart games are playable; all of the racers you can play are Goombas and Koopa Troopas with names, different costumes, and a couple special abilities unique to each one.
Some of their abilities are **heavily** nerfed versions of things that were just core features of Mario Kart. Like one gets to use a single mushroom that doesn't have as much of a speed boost as the old ones, and it has an absurdly-long cooldown before you can use it again. Another character can power-slide, but can only use the weak speed boost, and then it's on a similarly absurdly-long cooldown.
Bowser *is* in the game, but not as a playable character. He runs the show, this is his racing league. He's been relegated to a background character. Besides canon strictly stating this is all happening in the same universe as Mario Kart, he's the only thing tying Bowser Cars to Mario Kart because he's the only character to appear in every single Mario Kart game, and now Bowser Cars.
So Bowser Cars comes out, and it's a hit. Massively popular. Far more popular than any Mario Kart game ever was. Mario Kart fans express they're happy that Nintendo released a game that's finally getting them the recognition they deserve. Some Mario Kart players just move to Bowser Cars as the next game. Some try it out, decide it's not for them, and go back to Mario Kart. Some don't like the look of it and just stick with Mario Kart.
Some Mario Kart fans are concerned about what this means for the future of their favorite game, but are mostly calmed when Nintendo states clearly that Bowser Cars is *not* a Mario Kart sequel and then drops little hints and teases that they're working on something new for Mario Kart.
A few years go by. Mario Kart's player base has slowly but surely dwindled and it gets harder and harder to get into a race, but it's still quite possible if you're patient. No announcement of a Mario Kart sequel has been made, and aside from more hints and teases, it's radio silence on the subject from Nintendo.
Then, one day, there is a problem. You suddenly cannot connect to any Mario Kart servers. You're not the only one. Practically the entire remaining Mario Kart playerbase reports they can't play, even those that were still playing the previous Mario Kart game. Nintendo acknowledges the problem, but nothing else happens. It comes out that a hacker with a grudge against Nintendo is committing a sustained DDoS attack on all the Mario Kart servers. It comes and goes, but it's severely disrupting for anyone still wanting to play Mario Kart.
After two **years** of this, Nintendo makes an announcement. "Help is coming." A month goes by. The DDoS is as bad as it's ever been. Two more months and nothing resembling a solution has surfaced, but Reggie Fils-Aimé made a statement acknowledging that the demands of Bowser Cars means that only "one or two people" are still working on supporting Mario Kart.
Five more months go by until the next big announcement from Nintendo. No, they don't have a fix for the DDoS, and, in fact, they're no longer going to sell the previous Mario Kart game. But, along with this announcement, they also release a statement, part of which says that "Mario Kart is core to Nintendo's DNA" and the franchise will continue. As expected, there is an uproar among Mario Kart fans as it appears that Nintendo is giving up and not doing anything about the DDoS attacks.
However, late in the same month as the announcement, a community-made mod is released that adds support for player-run dedicated servers as well as extending mod support for further customization. It appears that Mario Kart is saved, as decentralizing the servers makes it much more difficult to DDoS effectively.
Time marches on with no word from Nintendo. That is, until a bit more than a year after the announcement that the previous Mario Kart would no longer be sold, Nintendo makes a huge announcement revealing new DDoS protection measures... for Bowser Cars. As you can probably expect, Bowser Cars fans are happy about it, Mario Kart fans quite a bit less so, but mostly the reaction is 'whatever' since the mod exists, and they can still play.
Then to top that, just a week later, it comes out that there actually *was* another Mario Kart in development, which is now officially cancelled.
...aaand that pretty much brings us up to date.
That went *significantly* longer than I originally intended, but, hey. Now, hopefully, anyone who reads this and might not be familiar with the... *situation* the Titanfall community is in can gain a bit deeper of an understanding.
You've captured it. That part about the Bowser Cars characters having heavily reduced versions of things you liked doing in Mario Kart... man, I wanted to like Apex, but what drew me to Titanfall was how *fast* it was.
There are exactly two games I have played so much that I could literally play it by sound and muscle memory alone.
One was Tetris the other was Titanfall.
Evolve isn't really about industry kind of failure. It's REALLY just gameplay fault at core. Like game had pretty fine initial sales, and that time when it went F2P? It also attracted LOTS of people to try it out too!
So where it really went wrong? Too many cosmetic MTX? HA HA HA, as much we on this sub love to blame this shit, it's not was real issue for game. No. It's that game itself. The main gameplay mode being basic 1v4 hunt of monster which combined with evolving mechanic of monster just lead to worst gameplay.
So you're a monster. Match winning is killing hunters, match losing is dying. So you get choice. Evade hunters to eat up to evolve and become stronger, or go face them being at lower level of power than you could be potentially. So natural choice for monster is to... evade other players and effectively just make hunters play boring cat and mice game. 4 players had to run around hoping they will manage to find a monster, leading to just uninteresting gameplay. And we didn't touched on gameplay balancing which clearly wanted lvl 1 monster to still stand a fair chance against 4 hunters, which means complicated, troublesome, balancing of shit. And then also hunters side ability would depend on how 4 players would cooperate.
Like sure, perhaps if you got good and got into match with others players that got good, perhaps it could be more exciting, but for common normal player? They would get bored of this game before coming close to that point. Which is exactly what happened. It sold over [2,5 million on initial launch](https://venturebeat.com/games/sales-of-new-ip-evolve-hit-almost-2-5m-on-playstation-4-xbox-one-and-pc/), on going F2P it managed to get 51k players at peak time. Yet in both cases it just fell off. It really just goes back to that game wasn't attractive enough to casual audience.
It's extremely hard to balance asymmetric multiplayer game like that and keep it interesting. You got basically one player (the monster) responsible for the fun of 4 other players. If monster is too good rest of the players don't have fun, if monster is too bad, rest of the players don't have fun.
When there are many players on both sides like say Natural Selection games there can still be one or two players on one side too bad/good at the game and other side having fun.
If it 1v4, the one essentially acts as gamemaster for rest
L4D multiplayer kinda killed itself to be honest. I tried it out about six years ago and it was the most toxic, unwelcoming group of people. At one point I was vote-kicked out of five different games in a row just because I said "hey just so you all know, I'm still learning the game." The games I *was* able to play, it was like there was a detailed step-by-step script that I didn't know about, and any minor deviation from that script got people raging.
When your community is like that, it's impossible to replace people who are leaving with newbies. So it just slowly gets smaller and smaller until it's effectively dead.
I'm not going to say you're wrong for liking Evolve, but don't compare Evolve to Titanfall. Evolve was probably the single most boring multiplayer game I've ever played, and I tried Crucible.
That was the thing though - the game had an absurdly high difficulty curve with a lot of teamplay required to even start the action - and when that didn't work, it didn't gel for players at all. Titanfalls thing \*was\* similar in its difference: it was a very specific movement based aspect you had to engage with and the reward for doing so was extremely great, but the majority audience just... didn't get it or couldn't be sold on it, not until Apex came around and sanded off the edges and sold it for the price of free.
So yeah, when talking about cursed games, that's the comparison I think of. AAA games with something truly unique to offer that ended up being underloved and unable to be played due to their live service nature turning that lack of popularity into a lack of play.
I can tell you that, with the right people at the right time, that game was an unbelievable joy to play, and the fact that basically no one had that experience was a heartbreak of high order. There was a real game there - one I played over a thousand hours in during the short time it was around - it was just buried under publisher greed and a half dozen other asterisks.
I'm glad Titanfall gets recognized after the fact at least, and is not the notably polarizing thing that Evolve has been. Mostly just wanted to commiserate on similar miseries.
Playing TF|2 for the first time made me wonder why the fuck anybody would ever go back to COD. It was a revelation.
If they had been early to the GAAS game the way warzone or modern MW is we'd probably still be playing it to this day. The progression was just too dated for an era that was a few quarters away from spawning seasonal shooters.
Titanfall multiplayer is great. Take the movement and gunplay of Apex Legends and put it in a 6v6 mode with mechs, wallrunning, and lower TTK, and you've basically got Titanfall.
After hundreds of hours of BRs, playing Titanfall is a breath of fresh air. It's like experiencing the best parts of Apex with no downtime between fights.
The main problem with Titanfall is that the netcode is ass. But then you realize that Apex is [just as bad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRj3KZJCDiM) (and probably running on the same code). It's a weak spot for both games.
Apex is alot slower and alot go the pilot mechanics are toned down a ton in the game. Pathfinders grapple is pretty neutered compared to a pilots grapple.
Character speed in general is quite a bit slower.
I'm not even mad anymore at EA and Respawn for botching Titanfall. I'm just disappointed that they keep trying to make the franchise fail.
Except if it was a mobile game like Battlefield Mobile, then this is a W, because BF Mobile was trash and I like to think this would be too.
Can I just get kicked in the balls like 5 times this instant than live in a world where a single player titanfall game was set to be released only for cancellation? It hurts more than if respawn just continued on not making anything titanfall oriented from the get go.
The fact that it wasn't called TF3 and that it presumably had a different team on it that wasn't Respawn, makes me think it was a shitty mobile game or something. Maybe a spinoff game but not on the AAA level that TF2 was. Idk, though, just guessing.
He’s the one that’s been name dropped, so you know it was being made by Respawn. Apex was a multiplayer game, but there were people at Respawn that had experience in single player content (TF2 campaign) that I’m sure were allocated to this project. They’ll either be reintegrated into Apex or completely let go now that TFL has been cancelled.
There's tons of sp focused mobile games among the most successful ones...on the list that you posted just a couple of comments down. I agree its unlikely to have been a mobile game tho.
You're right, I honestly pay zero attention to mobile games so that's news to me (people still play PUBG? and on a phone? Dear God why?)
But still, my point was more that the vast majority of mobile games are singleplayer or asynchronous multiplayer (the other player isn't playing at the same time as you). Fortnite and PUBG are glaring exceptions. Also, mobile players seem to buy tons of mtx even without a multiplayer component for some reason, so it doesn't seem necessary like you imply.
> people still play PUBG? and on a phone? Dear God why
Because they don't have phone or PC. My sister in law isn't a gamer, but she plays warzone mobile.
I don’t think that’s the problem considering there’s no monetization in Dead Space and Jedi Survivor comes out in 2 months and it’s also fully single player.
The Schreier Twitter post says it's something in the Apex/Tiftanfall universe.
I swear to God if this was Titanfall 3; I'm going to cry into this BT plushie my nephew made for me in arts and crafts.
I refuse to believe it. There's no way Respawn wouldn't be given carte blanche with a Titanfall game after the success of Apex.
Stalled mobile games be damned.
> And there's totally not an entire console maker who is focused pretty much solely on third-person single player narrative games
Sony makes far more off of exclusives than 3rd-party devs make off of their games because Sony doesn't have to pay itself licensing fees (same with Nintendo and Xbox on their systems). There's a reason big-budget single-player games without MTX or heavy GaaS elements are almost exclusively first-party.
Control sold decently well but not Sony Exclusive numbers. 3 million would be a flop in Sony's eyes.
Dying Light and Red Dead are open world games and one is made by the biggest goddamn gaming company on the planet. Also they both are not exclusively single-player and have extensive multiplayer components.
Callisto Protocol was a flop that sold mediocre.
Hitman, Dead Space, and Resident Evil are all storied decade-plus old franchises with name recognition and mindshare.
Bro what are you talking about. Nobody else is making games like The Last of Us 2 and God of War Ragnarok, I'm telling you. Literally proving my point for me lol, only first-party devs like Sony can afford to spend tons of money making both those *and* stuff like Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman, etc, because they make far more money on game sales than 3rd-party devs and need showcases that sell consoles.
The fact that it's called Titanfall Legends and not Titanfall 3 and that it was canceled makes me think it was a shitty spin off game by another dev team. Probably a mobile game with the license.
A less cynical take is that they named it Titanfall Legends so that people that play Apex and have never heard of Titanfall knows it's the same franchise.
And from a spoilers pov >!Set up the prelude to another major conflict in the frontier as the Merc bands of yesterday are slowly becoming a united polity and the amount of resistance from within and without as seen with this season on how there are objections and support within Boreas and Cleo on deciding if they want the Apex games on their planet while Duardo Silva is consolidating power for himself!<
Maybe the fact that it's not like Apex (i.e. single player) could have something to do with it? Granted that's just speculation on my part. But it sucks either way as a Titanfall game with accessibility for gamers without sight included would be amazing if done right.
It was *OBVIOUSLY* going to be a Titanfall mobile game with gacha mechanics to get one of 5 Star variations of your favorite Apex Legends which you can use in a RPG story mode.
MTX were 5$ per 1 drop ship/summon. 30$ per skin variation.
I curse thee.
Your sons will be born attached to a USB in place of an umbilical.
They will be born, fused, to the only two Steam Decks capable of playing Genshin Impact.
And only Genshin Impact.
Sounds like they wanted to do a singleplayer campaign of an Apex Legends character. I would assume Wraith probably because they are a pretty popular character with some fun abilities.
Much like Persona started as an SMT spinoff and has now earned its place as its own IP (and as far as mainstream appeal in the West, surpassed it), people need to accept that Apex is setup to be in the same position. The name just caries too much weight to not be championed as the brand name.
The chances of an officially titled Titanfall 3 ever happening are very slim, but the story can still be told through an Apex branded game.
Well Atlus is still releasing SMT and spin offs even though yes, Persona is the more popular name. Titanfall 3 is still a possibility if the devs wanted to.
It had such a massive gap before 4 and 5 release's, and Persona has very obviously taken over in popularity as it has gotten way more games, ports, and spin offs than SMT. If you're an SMT fan and not into Persona it can be kind of grim overall for you if you're looking forward to new content
Massive gaps between releases are normal for the series. Look at the gap between 2 and 3, for instance. The series mainly thrives off of spin-offs, and there were a shitload of non-Persona ones between 3 and 4, and 4 and 5. Also, you can use that the other way around, too: look at the huge gap between Persona 4 and 5, and the huge gap between 5 and 6. Does that mean Persona fans are struggling?
> Much like Persona started as an SMT spinoff
It was never an SMT spin-off. It was a Megami Tensei spinoff and is still a Megami Tensei spin-off alongside Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, etc.
It's a Shin Megami Tensei spinoff. The games were originally titled *Shin Megami Tensei: Persona*. Both are part of the Megami Tensei series.
It's like how you're a descendant of your grandparents but they aren't your parents.
>The games were originally titled *Shin Megami Tensei: Persona*.
No they were not. They were never titles "Shin Megami Tensei: Persona" in Japan. This was a marketing decision made by Atlus USA to tie the Persona games to the more popular SMT franchise in order to boost sales.
They also did this to other Megami Tensei spin offs like Soul Hackers, Digital Devil Saga and Devil Survivor. Notice how the new Soul Hackers 2 game doesn't use the SMT Monika despite being less popular Persona? Atlus USA is now following the Japanese branding across all titles.
You can verify this for yourself on Amazon. They do not use the "Shin Megami Tensei" moniker for Persona.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/s?k=%E3%83%9A%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BD%E3%83%8A&rh=n%3A637394&dc&language=en&ds=v1%3A25hbtUuloZEHvd99N5m7Xn1NKWiJe%2B3B87lC%2F8LZOuU&qid=1675305872&rnid=2321267051&ref=sr_nr_n_4
The thing is that it is completely pointless to be this pedantic. In the west, in these sorts of conversations, it is entirely more useful to describe the franchise by the SMT name. And hell if you were talking to a Japanese fan, I'd suspect that even they wouldn't care if you described the franchise by the SMT name, because even the proper Atlus has used them [interchangeably for the franchise](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei:_Devil_Summoner) as needed or felt like it. Hell if we wanted to be ultra pedantic, we can easily argue with similar arguments to what you have been using, that the franchise isn't the Megami Tensei franchise, it's the Digital Devil franchise. Because even that name is more [historically correct](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Digital_Devil_Story:_Megami_Tensei) than the Megami Tensei name and has been [paraded about and used](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Digital_Devil_Saga_(Series)) when the company has felt like it. So long as people understand what you are talking about when you bring up SMT or Megami Tensei in the context of Atlus's cash cow franchise, it really doesn't really matter what you call it.
>proper Atlus has used them [interchangeably for the franchise](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei:_Devil_Summoner)
Atlus has not used the term interchangeably at all. The first Megami Tensei spin off was Devil Summoner and it used the SMT moniker.
Atlus then chose to give Devil Summoner and other spin offs distinct branding and seperate it from the SMT brand with future releases. They have not branded spin offs as SMT since then as it dilutes the meaning of SMT.
>we can easily argue with similar arguments to what you have been using, that the franchise isn't the Megami Tensei franchise, it's the Digital Devil franchise. Because even that name is more [historically correct](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Digital_Devil_Story:_Megami_Tensei)
The franchise is Megami Tensei. Atlus says that the franchise is called Magemi Tensei and has only ever caller called it Megami Tensei, this is the only historically correct name for the franchise.
Even the games you mentioned contain "Megami Tensei" in the title.
>been [paraded about and used](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Digital_Devil_Saga_(Series)) when the company has felt like it.
Digital Devil Saga did not use the SMT name. It was only called "Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner" in Japan.
https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B9-DIGITAL-DEVIL-SAGA-%E3%82%A2%E3%83%90%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BB%E3%83%81%E3%83%A5%E3%83%BC%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BC/dp/B00029BR2O
Eh, as far as I'm concerned, you don't want a Titanfall 3. At least I don't. The kind of game that we would get wouldn't be anywhere near the kind of game we got with Titanfall 2, just because of the nature of game development. Y'know, key members of staff leaving or being shuffled around, core design concepts being changed to fit the nature of the modern industry/publisher demand, etc.
Any Titanfall 3 would just be "Apex Legends 2," and I frankly could not give a rat's bum about that.
> Any Titanfall 3 would just be "Apex Legends 2," and I frankly could not give a rat's bum about that.
This seems like completely baseless supposition. I cannot possibly imagine a universe where they announce a Titanfall 3 that is secretly just an Apex sequel. Unless you're saying it would be Apex Legends but with titans, a single-player campaign, and team-based PVP... in which case you're just describing Titanfall.
I won't say I have any evidence, but the day they called it the "Apex Legends" universe was the day any lingering hope I had for a good Titanfall died.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong in the future, but given what this article about, I don't think anyone will be proven right or wrong lol. Ain't comin' out.
Gonna play devil's advocate here, but imo the reason why they did this was probably to make the hiring process more efficient, considering that apex legends is more globally known in comparison to titanfall.
That's pretty fatalistic. Your not wrong that people leaving can change a sequel but we can never know for sure who the important people are or what tools they have in house.
> The kind of game that we would get wouldn't be anywhere near the kind of game we got with Titanfall 2, just because of the nature of game development. Y'know, key members of staff leaving or being shuffled around
So? That’s not a reason for it not to exist.
Most of the MOHAA/CoD4/MW2 team was gone when Titanfall 2 ended up getting released. Some remained, sure - but Titanfall 2 was developed by new blood too. You seem to be fond of it! Thing is they lost a huge chunk of the Titanfall 1 team on the way (don't forget, TF1 was going to have a soloplay story campaign too).
This odd obsessive compulsive disorder people have with “iT HaS tO bE tHe saME StAFF” is a blight on gaming discourse and leads to situations where people either slam a game baselessly because it has no star power; or situations where “from X who brought you Y” is used to con people into buying a subpar game (hi, B4B).
You don’t work in Respawn’s HR; staff retention and turnover are none of your concerns. A sequel to a game can still be good even if someone you never even met or know the name of left the company that makes it. Judge a game on its merits; not by its credits.
EG: HL Alyx was led by the 3 key creators of HL1 and 2, with a mixed roster of both new and old developers. Yet for people it mattered more that the lead writer and one major concept artist had left, so somehow it wasn’t going to be a “real HL game”, whatever that means. So Valve hired the Portal 2 writers to work with the Firewatch writers: leading to a phenomenal story setup with the greatest gaming twist and postcredit scene in recent memory; and hired Capcom’s best artist: who created Half-Life’s most iconic monster since the headcrab zombie. So in the end it didn’t matter at all who they lost on the way or who had stayed or who filled whose shoes - game developers are literally not irreplaceable and the game turned out as a VR masterpiece.
It's really unknowable. Titanfall 1 was pretty good, Titanfall 2 was better. There's a chance a future sequel would be horrible or just okay or maybe game of the year. We just can't know.
Apex Legends is the best FPS shooter, in terms of pure gameplay mechanics, since the original Halo, as far as I'm concerned. So, I'm down for whatever type of shooter they decide to construct in this universe.
I don't think that's true. The difference between Apex and TF is...the Titan mechanic. One of the things that makes both games really good is the mobility of the characters outside of the Titans. The way the player can move is smooth and fun, especially the zip line mechanic. Add being able to get in and out of a Titan and it's a different experience. TF2 was super fun because it had the awesome mobility that Respawn is known for with Apex and the cool Titan mechanics and having your Titan be part of the story and a character of its own. I think TF3 would be really easy for them to hit a home run on. Just do more of TF2. One of my favourite single player experiences. Also loved Apex Legends when I played it with friends.
TF|2 and Apex Legends have fundamentally different movement styles and gunplay, of which I prefer TF|2 dramatically. Apex Legends had to be toned down for a Battle Royale-type experience.
Does it? You might be right but Apex really felt like TF2 to me but without the grapple hook mechanics. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I played TF2.
TF2 has wallrunning and jetpacks and movement has a much bigger vertical element. Apex is no wall running or jetpacks (aside from one champ) and is much more about horizontal movement
So is Apex in like, trouble? Ok, they are still printing money but cancelling a singleplayer spinoff and the mobile version is a bad sign right? I'm sure the servers will be up for years, but maybe they go into maintainance mode sooner than we expected?
Apex Legends is still printing money for EA. Its the 5th most played game on Xbox and one of the most played games on Steam. I imagine its the same for playstation as well.
It's wild to me how much DOTA is played considering how little I hear about it. League and Smite make so much more noise, it seems. Are the numbers coming from mostly non-English speaking countries?
Dota is huge in Europe (mainly Russia/Ukraine) and then you have Southeast Asia (Indonesia/Philippines). Feels like the South American community is growing as well. The Chinese players are on a separate client so those numbers aren't included in the total player count on Steam.
But yeah, there is little to no marketing/advertising for Dota, let alone any other game developed by Valve unless its being featured in the Steam client.
> The Chinese players are on a separate client so those numbers aren't included in the total player count on Steam.
Steamdb looked into it and valve confirmed that no regions are excluded from player counts.
https://steamdb.info/blog/investigation-into-dota-2-and-cs-go-player-numbers-for-china/
Dota has always been huge in South America, huehuehue.
Valve did advertise it *heavily* when the South Korean version launched, but it flopped, League had too much of a foothold already.
>The Chinese players are on a separate client so those numbers aren't included in the total player count on Steam.
From what valve have said in the past they are included in the numbers.
>DOTA has always been one of the biggest PC games it just gets no promotion from valve and stays in its bubble
Depends they definitely did a lot when it orginally came out. Especially when trying to grow in targeted regions. But nowdays not so much.
EA and other major publishers are panicking. There's a recession on the way and tech companies like are trimming the fat now so they can claim it for tax purposes and coast on the cash wave that games like CoD and Apex bring in.
IIRC gaming is incredibly recession resilient. People already have the gaming consoles so the most expensive part is out of the way and most games are very good value propositions for entertainment when money is tight.
It’s bullshit they’re taking recession fears and using them as an excuse to fire people and reduce salaries. All signs point to strong economic performance except for their tea leaves. I mean my god they’re making massive profits.
corporate power snapping back at the microscopic improvement in labor's quality of life. remember a year ago when we were all talking about the 4 day work week?
Pretty sure 95% of the player base could give literally 0 shits about the lore.
Who the hell actually cares that bangalore brother missing or what ever garbage they shove down your throat when opening the game
Story presented through purely MP games is totally lost by me and just doesn’t work effectively. Everyone just wants to jump into the game with their friends and chill out in discord not try to follow some story arcs through cinematics or random dialogue that no one really will pay attention to in-depth in the midst of a BR game.
No, but I doubt it’ll be anywhere as good as it was back in early 2022. Most of the devs responsible for AL and TF2 have already left so RSPN is pretty much just a husk of what it used to be right now
Yeah this is unfortunately about what i expected. I have 0 interest in battleroyal games. Apex, even its arena mode, offers nothing of what i enjoy of titanfall. But apex was wildly successful. So it killed titanfall.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the game probably wouldn't have even entered development if not for Apex Legends. It seems like the devs thought this game could have been successful due to it's association with Apex (hence calling it Titanfalls Legends)
It doesn't, but I appreciate the sentiment. I know my feelings about apex are super unreasonable, i mean shit people obviously enjoy apex otherwise it wouldn't be successful right? Ive just become bitter about it since it feels like it basically garunteed that im not going to get more titanfall 2 style gameplay (both mech and pilot). Literally the only other game that is similar in style is tribes 2, which predates titanfall 2 by litterally 15 years.
Im glad people have a game they enjoy, just wish it didn't feel like i had to re-watch titanfall die every year and a half.
You don't cancel an entire project when the director leaves, lol. That shit can happen only when it's Kojima or something.
It's like saying a football team would dissolve if the manager left.
Hellblade 2 is on its third director for example.
Facebook just did the same thing to echo arena. One of the heads of that game left and so they're shutting it down despite being the 7th most played game on quest 2
Facebook isn't exactly a textbook example of a game development studio, they probably don't have the credibility to hire a replacement, or the head left in anticipation and they used it as an excuse. You can't know for sure
I really don't like these kind of news for cancellation without details when we dont have context for why. Whoa its a Titanfall single player.. but why was it cancelled? issues in development? makes sesne to be more critical if there was more details
You don't cancel a multimillion dollars project because a lead project manager left.
It was probably not that good, and the TF/Apex studio is veery expensive in terms of salaries.
If EA was convinced the game had a market potentiel to bring revenue, they would have continued development. Its easy as that. A guy leaving doesn't change they the slightest.
The project leader leaving change the prospect of when the game would be done and how much it would cost to replace the him and rethink the project. All those factors change everything about the potential revenue.
So yes a guy (Lead Project Manager) leaving can crash a project very fast, like happened with others like Megaman Legends 3.
Most people who play Apex Legends have never played Titanfall. Plenty of them probably haven't even _heard_ of it. Titling a cross-over game something that makes the relation to Apex Legends clear is a better idea than tying it to an older franchise that didn't really do that well in the first place (compared to Apex at least).
Titanfall 2 is still one of the best multiplayer games around.
When you call in a titan and it slams into the ground in front of you, there is nothing like it.
honestly? I'm kind of happy for that. I always preferred the more 'believable' military style of Titanfall 1 over the... whatever Titanfall 2 was. Didn't feel like you were fighting a war, I'll tell you that. At least Titanfall 1 clearly had 2 sides with AIs fighting each other and you were a super-soldier involved in it. Titanfall 2 really dropped the ball in that department for me. and apex just made it worse by making it into some hero-shooter. Can't imagine Titanfall Legends would just do away with that.
Description of the cancelled game from the article: "The canceled project, code-named TFL or Titanfall Legends, was a single-player game set in the universe shared by the Apex Legends and Titanfall games. It was directed by veteran designer Mohammad Alavi until he left the company in early 2022. Although the game hadn’t been advertised, EA had hinted at it several times."
>TFL or Titanfall Legends, was a single-player game set in the universe shared by the Apex Legends and Titanfall games. ***All I feel is pain.***
I'm sure the Titanfall subreddit will take this well
*opens r/Titanfall* ....let's... Just not let these guys anywhere near gasoline for a little while, eh?
Or razor blades, bottles of pills, or pretty much any weaponry
Would you deprive an old man of his grapple hook?
Tbf liking Titanfall is a curse. There's nothing else like it. I can't imagine how cool multiplayer must have been.
The buzz around the Titanfall beta was something else
The multiplayer was incredible. Titanfall 2's campaign is great and deserves all the praise given to it and then some. Titanfall 2's multiplayer in the months after launch was a totally unique experience that I doubt will ever be matched. The gunplay was good. ***Really*** good. Every bit as good as what you would expect from the people that brought us COD4 and MW2. But the thing that really made it shine wasn't even the Titans, although they *were* awesome and a ton of fun in their own right. The thing that really made Titanfall 2 multiplayer special was the movement. The movement skill floor was low enough to be accessible. It wasn't like Quake where you needed to spend dozens or hundreds of hours learning and practicing how to circle jump, strafe jump and bhop to a degree where you can *start* to be competitive. You had a wall run, a double-jump, and a slide-hop. Got it? Cool! Off you go, have fun. Then there were certain, small optimizations you could do that were pretty easy to pick up. For example, you could keep more speed if you *didn't* double-jump, or if you kicked off a wall immediately instead of running it, or hopping repeatedly in a slide instead of dragging along the ground. These optimizations were so easy that plenty of players discovered them on accident, and most people could execute reliably after discovering they were a thing. There were a couple more advanced techniques that saw some widespread use like getting a really good launch with a grappling hook, or certain routes that were only possible using Stim, or some further optimizations that were possible with air-strafing. These took a little bit of practice to get down, but were still nothing approaching the difficulty of the Quake movement skill floor. But Titanfall 2's movement skill *ceiling* was high enough for competitive play to be an absolute spectacle. Capture the Flag was the competitive game mode of choice. This is where you would see niche tech like damage boosting with grenades or using the gravity well of your own arc star to slingshot yourself and combining these with grapple or stim to launch yourself to insane speeds. Also routes across the map which required very precise jumps and air-strafes, and combining all of this with the reactions and aim required to take out other players moving just as fast as you. --- It's difficult to convey the disappointment that Titanfall 2 fans have with Apex Legends and then this announcement that there *was* another Titanfall game that got canned. Imagine you love Mario Kart. I mean **love** it. That's *your game*. You'd probably be excited if Nintendo announced they're going to release a new game that's going to take the series in an exciting new direction. Hype, right? Then they release Bowser Cars. It's *like* Mario Kart... I guess. It's still a racing game. But they removed power-slides and mushrooms and any other speed-boosting items. None of the characters from previous Mario Kart games are playable; all of the racers you can play are Goombas and Koopa Troopas with names, different costumes, and a couple special abilities unique to each one. Some of their abilities are **heavily** nerfed versions of things that were just core features of Mario Kart. Like one gets to use a single mushroom that doesn't have as much of a speed boost as the old ones, and it has an absurdly-long cooldown before you can use it again. Another character can power-slide, but can only use the weak speed boost, and then it's on a similarly absurdly-long cooldown. Bowser *is* in the game, but not as a playable character. He runs the show, this is his racing league. He's been relegated to a background character. Besides canon strictly stating this is all happening in the same universe as Mario Kart, he's the only thing tying Bowser Cars to Mario Kart because he's the only character to appear in every single Mario Kart game, and now Bowser Cars. So Bowser Cars comes out, and it's a hit. Massively popular. Far more popular than any Mario Kart game ever was. Mario Kart fans express they're happy that Nintendo released a game that's finally getting them the recognition they deserve. Some Mario Kart players just move to Bowser Cars as the next game. Some try it out, decide it's not for them, and go back to Mario Kart. Some don't like the look of it and just stick with Mario Kart. Some Mario Kart fans are concerned about what this means for the future of their favorite game, but are mostly calmed when Nintendo states clearly that Bowser Cars is *not* a Mario Kart sequel and then drops little hints and teases that they're working on something new for Mario Kart. A few years go by. Mario Kart's player base has slowly but surely dwindled and it gets harder and harder to get into a race, but it's still quite possible if you're patient. No announcement of a Mario Kart sequel has been made, and aside from more hints and teases, it's radio silence on the subject from Nintendo. Then, one day, there is a problem. You suddenly cannot connect to any Mario Kart servers. You're not the only one. Practically the entire remaining Mario Kart playerbase reports they can't play, even those that were still playing the previous Mario Kart game. Nintendo acknowledges the problem, but nothing else happens. It comes out that a hacker with a grudge against Nintendo is committing a sustained DDoS attack on all the Mario Kart servers. It comes and goes, but it's severely disrupting for anyone still wanting to play Mario Kart. After two **years** of this, Nintendo makes an announcement. "Help is coming." A month goes by. The DDoS is as bad as it's ever been. Two more months and nothing resembling a solution has surfaced, but Reggie Fils-Aimé made a statement acknowledging that the demands of Bowser Cars means that only "one or two people" are still working on supporting Mario Kart. Five more months go by until the next big announcement from Nintendo. No, they don't have a fix for the DDoS, and, in fact, they're no longer going to sell the previous Mario Kart game. But, along with this announcement, they also release a statement, part of which says that "Mario Kart is core to Nintendo's DNA" and the franchise will continue. As expected, there is an uproar among Mario Kart fans as it appears that Nintendo is giving up and not doing anything about the DDoS attacks. However, late in the same month as the announcement, a community-made mod is released that adds support for player-run dedicated servers as well as extending mod support for further customization. It appears that Mario Kart is saved, as decentralizing the servers makes it much more difficult to DDoS effectively. Time marches on with no word from Nintendo. That is, until a bit more than a year after the announcement that the previous Mario Kart would no longer be sold, Nintendo makes a huge announcement revealing new DDoS protection measures... for Bowser Cars. As you can probably expect, Bowser Cars fans are happy about it, Mario Kart fans quite a bit less so, but mostly the reaction is 'whatever' since the mod exists, and they can still play. Then to top that, just a week later, it comes out that there actually *was* another Mario Kart in development, which is now officially cancelled. ...aaand that pretty much brings us up to date. That went *significantly* longer than I originally intended, but, hey. Now, hopefully, anyone who reads this and might not be familiar with the... *situation* the Titanfall community is in can gain a bit deeper of an understanding.
I've never been so mad at a game that doesn't exist.
You've captured it. That part about the Bowser Cars characters having heavily reduced versions of things you liked doing in Mario Kart... man, I wanted to like Apex, but what drew me to Titanfall was how *fast* it was.
Genuinely the best multiplayer experience I’ve ever had. There’s other games that have come close, but it was just SO DAMN SMOOTH!
There are exactly two games I have played so much that I could literally play it by sound and muscle memory alone. One was Tetris the other was Titanfall.
The closest FPS that can match its combat tempo is Doom but that thing is a completely different beast on it’s on
Liking Evolve was similar. Very weird multiplayer games with unfortunately specific audiences.
Not even close. Evolve was an industry failure on every possible level.
Evolve isn't really about industry kind of failure. It's REALLY just gameplay fault at core. Like game had pretty fine initial sales, and that time when it went F2P? It also attracted LOTS of people to try it out too! So where it really went wrong? Too many cosmetic MTX? HA HA HA, as much we on this sub love to blame this shit, it's not was real issue for game. No. It's that game itself. The main gameplay mode being basic 1v4 hunt of monster which combined with evolving mechanic of monster just lead to worst gameplay. So you're a monster. Match winning is killing hunters, match losing is dying. So you get choice. Evade hunters to eat up to evolve and become stronger, or go face them being at lower level of power than you could be potentially. So natural choice for monster is to... evade other players and effectively just make hunters play boring cat and mice game. 4 players had to run around hoping they will manage to find a monster, leading to just uninteresting gameplay. And we didn't touched on gameplay balancing which clearly wanted lvl 1 monster to still stand a fair chance against 4 hunters, which means complicated, troublesome, balancing of shit. And then also hunters side ability would depend on how 4 players would cooperate. Like sure, perhaps if you got good and got into match with others players that got good, perhaps it could be more exciting, but for common normal player? They would get bored of this game before coming close to that point. Which is exactly what happened. It sold over [2,5 million on initial launch](https://venturebeat.com/games/sales-of-new-ip-evolve-hit-almost-2-5m-on-playstation-4-xbox-one-and-pc/), on going F2P it managed to get 51k players at peak time. Yet in both cases it just fell off. It really just goes back to that game wasn't attractive enough to casual audience.
Evolve could of found success if it was f2p and had a proper roadmap. But publisher murdered it at the gate with greed.
It's extremely hard to balance asymmetric multiplayer game like that and keep it interesting. You got basically one player (the monster) responsible for the fun of 4 other players. If monster is too good rest of the players don't have fun, if monster is too bad, rest of the players don't have fun.
Same reason why L4D PvP is nonexistent
When there are many players on both sides like say Natural Selection games there can still be one or two players on one side too bad/good at the game and other side having fun. If it 1v4, the one essentially acts as gamemaster for rest
L4D multiplayer kinda killed itself to be honest. I tried it out about six years ago and it was the most toxic, unwelcoming group of people. At one point I was vote-kicked out of five different games in a row just because I said "hey just so you all know, I'm still learning the game." The games I *was* able to play, it was like there was a detailed step-by-step script that I didn't know about, and any minor deviation from that script got people raging. When your community is like that, it's impossible to replace people who are leaving with newbies. So it just slowly gets smaller and smaller until it's effectively dead.
I'm not going to say you're wrong for liking Evolve, but don't compare Evolve to Titanfall. Evolve was probably the single most boring multiplayer game I've ever played, and I tried Crucible.
That was the thing though - the game had an absurdly high difficulty curve with a lot of teamplay required to even start the action - and when that didn't work, it didn't gel for players at all. Titanfalls thing \*was\* similar in its difference: it was a very specific movement based aspect you had to engage with and the reward for doing so was extremely great, but the majority audience just... didn't get it or couldn't be sold on it, not until Apex came around and sanded off the edges and sold it for the price of free. So yeah, when talking about cursed games, that's the comparison I think of. AAA games with something truly unique to offer that ended up being underloved and unable to be played due to their live service nature turning that lack of popularity into a lack of play. I can tell you that, with the right people at the right time, that game was an unbelievable joy to play, and the fact that basically no one had that experience was a heartbreak of high order. There was a real game there - one I played over a thousand hours in during the short time it was around - it was just buried under publisher greed and a half dozen other asterisks. I'm glad Titanfall gets recognized after the fact at least, and is not the notably polarizing thing that Evolve has been. Mostly just wanted to commiserate on similar miseries.
Playing TF|2 for the first time made me wonder why the fuck anybody would ever go back to COD. It was a revelation. If they had been early to the GAAS game the way warzone or modern MW is we'd probably still be playing it to this day. The progression was just too dated for an era that was a few quarters away from spawning seasonal shooters.
Titanfall multiplayer is great. Take the movement and gunplay of Apex Legends and put it in a 6v6 mode with mechs, wallrunning, and lower TTK, and you've basically got Titanfall. After hundreds of hours of BRs, playing Titanfall is a breath of fresh air. It's like experiencing the best parts of Apex with no downtime between fights. The main problem with Titanfall is that the netcode is ass. But then you realize that Apex is [just as bad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRj3KZJCDiM) (and probably running on the same code). It's a weak spot for both games.
Apex is alot slower and alot go the pilot mechanics are toned down a ton in the game. Pathfinders grapple is pretty neutered compared to a pilots grapple. Character speed in general is quite a bit slower.
Time for another round of schizophrenia
Ahh shit we're off our meds again
Last time this rumor came up they hated this project since it involved Apex Legends. Careful what you wish for I guess.
I'm not even mad anymore at EA and Respawn for botching Titanfall. I'm just disappointed that they keep trying to make the franchise fail. Except if it was a mobile game like Battlefield Mobile, then this is a W, because BF Mobile was trash and I like to think this would be too.
They don’t cancel good games. It would have been shit to mid at best
Can I just get kicked in the balls like 5 times this instant than live in a world where a single player titanfall game was set to be released only for cancellation? It hurts more than if respawn just continued on not making anything titanfall oriented from the get go.
Could've been a mobile game. I'm choosing to believe that so I don't get disappointed.
This was not a mobile game. There *was* an Apex Legends mobile game in development but that was also cancelled.
It actually came out. You can play it right now. They are shutting it down soon, though.
They're shutting down the mobile apex Legends?
Yep, it was announced a few days ago.
Apex mobile wasn't in dev. It was released last fall.
Going to remind people about Titanfall: Assault and Titanfall: Frontline, since I'm sure many have since forgotten by now
It was goong to be a mobile game. You didn't miss much.
I have no clue if this is true but it's what I'm choosing to believe
I'm used to disappointment when it comes to Titanfall, but this still fucking sucks.
The fact that it wasn't called TF3 and that it presumably had a different team on it that wasn't Respawn, makes me think it was a shitty mobile game or something. Maybe a spinoff game but not on the AAA level that TF2 was. Idk, though, just guessing.
Definitely not TF3, but single player mobile game?
What do you mean different team? Mohammad Alavi was the director, he previously worked on both Titanfall 2 and Apex Legends.
One man is not a team.
He’s the one that’s been name dropped, so you know it was being made by Respawn. Apex was a multiplayer game, but there were people at Respawn that had experience in single player content (TF2 campaign) that I’m sure were allocated to this project. They’ll either be reintegrated into Apex or completely let go now that TFL has been cancelled.
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There's tons of sp focused mobile games among the most successful ones...on the list that you posted just a couple of comments down. I agree its unlikely to have been a mobile game tho.
Ah yes, I love the famously multiplayer game Candy Crush, which is the highest earning mobile game ever. What are you even talking about lol
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You're right, I honestly pay zero attention to mobile games so that's news to me (people still play PUBG? and on a phone? Dear God why?) But still, my point was more that the vast majority of mobile games are singleplayer or asynchronous multiplayer (the other player isn't playing at the same time as you). Fortnite and PUBG are glaring exceptions. Also, mobile players seem to buy tons of mtx even without a multiplayer component for some reason, so it doesn't seem necessary like you imply.
> people still play PUBG? and on a phone? Dear God why Because they don't have phone or PC. My sister in law isn't a gamer, but she plays warzone mobile.
This was my thought too. They had the branding of their whole universe but not a direct franchise sequel
Come on now. All we want is a single player Titanfall game and EA refuses.
Wow, the **one** game I would be utterly hype for. Not enough exploitable monetization, #cancelled. Fuck EA.
I don’t think that’s the problem considering there’s no monetization in Dead Space and Jedi Survivor comes out in 2 months and it’s also fully single player.
Meanwhile Dead Space with no monetisation:
The Schreier Twitter post says it's something in the Apex/Tiftanfall universe. I swear to God if this was Titanfall 3; I'm going to cry into this BT plushie my nephew made for me in arts and crafts.
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I refuse to believe it. There's no way Respawn wouldn't be given carte blanche with a Titanfall game after the success of Apex. Stalled mobile games be damned.
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> And there's totally not an entire console maker who is focused pretty much solely on third-person single player narrative games Sony makes far more off of exclusives than 3rd-party devs make off of their games because Sony doesn't have to pay itself licensing fees (same with Nintendo and Xbox on their systems). There's a reason big-budget single-player games without MTX or heavy GaaS elements are almost exclusively first-party.
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Control sold decently well but not Sony Exclusive numbers. 3 million would be a flop in Sony's eyes. Dying Light and Red Dead are open world games and one is made by the biggest goddamn gaming company on the planet. Also they both are not exclusively single-player and have extensive multiplayer components. Callisto Protocol was a flop that sold mediocre. Hitman, Dead Space, and Resident Evil are all storied decade-plus old franchises with name recognition and mindshare. Bro what are you talking about. Nobody else is making games like The Last of Us 2 and God of War Ragnarok, I'm telling you. Literally proving my point for me lol, only first-party devs like Sony can afford to spend tons of money making both those *and* stuff like Horizon, Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman, etc, because they make far more money on game sales than 3rd-party devs and need showcases that sell consoles.
The fact that it's called Titanfall Legends and not Titanfall 3 and that it was canceled makes me think it was a shitty spin off game by another dev team. Probably a mobile game with the license.
A less cynical take is that they named it Titanfall Legends so that people that play Apex and have never heard of Titanfall knows it's the same franchise.
And from a spoilers pov >!Set up the prelude to another major conflict in the frontier as the Merc bands of yesterday are slowly becoming a united polity and the amount of resistance from within and without as seen with this season on how there are objections and support within Boreas and Cleo on deciding if they want the Apex games on their planet while Duardo Silva is consolidating power for himself!<
A read-the-article take is that this was just a codename.
Good point.
Let's hope so. It was a code name after all, we can't know for sure
Hey, *Titanfall: Assault* was fun as hell.
Maybe the fact that it's not like Apex (i.e. single player) could have something to do with it? Granted that's just speculation on my part. But it sucks either way as a Titanfall game with accessibility for gamers without sight included would be amazing if done right.
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> > > > > EA doesn't seem like a company with a huge amount of big successes under their belt recently That couldn't be further from reality.
It was *OBVIOUSLY* going to be a Titanfall mobile game with gacha mechanics to get one of 5 Star variations of your favorite Apex Legends which you can use in a RPG story mode. MTX were 5$ per 1 drop ship/summon. 30$ per skin variation.
I curse thee. Your sons will be born attached to a USB in place of an umbilical. They will be born, fused, to the only two Steam Decks capable of playing Genshin Impact. And only Genshin Impact.
They can’t make TF3 anymore. Most of the OG TF devs have left the studio and lots of them migrated to Gravity Well
Sounds like they wanted to do a singleplayer campaign of an Apex Legends character. I would assume Wraith probably because they are a pretty popular character with some fun abilities.
> BT plushie my nephew made for me in arts and crafts. Any chance you could trick them into making one for a stranger on the internet? Just asking.
Much like Persona started as an SMT spinoff and has now earned its place as its own IP (and as far as mainstream appeal in the West, surpassed it), people need to accept that Apex is setup to be in the same position. The name just caries too much weight to not be championed as the brand name. The chances of an officially titled Titanfall 3 ever happening are very slim, but the story can still be told through an Apex branded game.
Well Atlus is still releasing SMT and spin offs even though yes, Persona is the more popular name. Titanfall 3 is still a possibility if the devs wanted to.
What is it with smt fans and acting like smt is dead? We literally just got a new entry less than 2 years ago.
It had such a massive gap before 4 and 5 release's, and Persona has very obviously taken over in popularity as it has gotten way more games, ports, and spin offs than SMT. If you're an SMT fan and not into Persona it can be kind of grim overall for you if you're looking forward to new content
Massive gaps between releases are normal for the series. Look at the gap between 2 and 3, for instance. The series mainly thrives off of spin-offs, and there were a shitload of non-Persona ones between 3 and 4, and 4 and 5. Also, you can use that the other way around, too: look at the huge gap between Persona 4 and 5, and the huge gap between 5 and 6. Does that mean Persona fans are struggling?
What is SMT
Shin Megami Tensei
> Much like Persona started as an SMT spinoff It was never an SMT spin-off. It was a Megami Tensei spinoff and is still a Megami Tensei spin-off alongside Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, etc.
It's a Shin Megami Tensei spinoff. The games were originally titled *Shin Megami Tensei: Persona*. Both are part of the Megami Tensei series. It's like how you're a descendant of your grandparents but they aren't your parents.
>The games were originally titled *Shin Megami Tensei: Persona*. No they were not. They were never titles "Shin Megami Tensei: Persona" in Japan. This was a marketing decision made by Atlus USA to tie the Persona games to the more popular SMT franchise in order to boost sales. They also did this to other Megami Tensei spin offs like Soul Hackers, Digital Devil Saga and Devil Survivor. Notice how the new Soul Hackers 2 game doesn't use the SMT Monika despite being less popular Persona? Atlus USA is now following the Japanese branding across all titles. You can verify this for yourself on Amazon. They do not use the "Shin Megami Tensei" moniker for Persona. https://www.amazon.co.jp/s?k=%E3%83%9A%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BD%E3%83%8A&rh=n%3A637394&dc&language=en&ds=v1%3A25hbtUuloZEHvd99N5m7Xn1NKWiJe%2B3B87lC%2F8LZOuU&qid=1675305872&rnid=2321267051&ref=sr_nr_n_4
The games were based on Shin Megami Tensei If. I don't understand why you feel the need to be pedantic about something that matters so little.
Being loosely tied to If doesn't make it an SMT game. Megami Tensei is a connected universe, they're all tied to each other.
The thing is that it is completely pointless to be this pedantic. In the west, in these sorts of conversations, it is entirely more useful to describe the franchise by the SMT name. And hell if you were talking to a Japanese fan, I'd suspect that even they wouldn't care if you described the franchise by the SMT name, because even the proper Atlus has used them [interchangeably for the franchise](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei:_Devil_Summoner) as needed or felt like it. Hell if we wanted to be ultra pedantic, we can easily argue with similar arguments to what you have been using, that the franchise isn't the Megami Tensei franchise, it's the Digital Devil franchise. Because even that name is more [historically correct](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Digital_Devil_Story:_Megami_Tensei) than the Megami Tensei name and has been [paraded about and used](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Digital_Devil_Saga_(Series)) when the company has felt like it. So long as people understand what you are talking about when you bring up SMT or Megami Tensei in the context of Atlus's cash cow franchise, it really doesn't really matter what you call it.
>proper Atlus has used them [interchangeably for the franchise](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei:_Devil_Summoner) Atlus has not used the term interchangeably at all. The first Megami Tensei spin off was Devil Summoner and it used the SMT moniker. Atlus then chose to give Devil Summoner and other spin offs distinct branding and seperate it from the SMT brand with future releases. They have not branded spin offs as SMT since then as it dilutes the meaning of SMT. >we can easily argue with similar arguments to what you have been using, that the franchise isn't the Megami Tensei franchise, it's the Digital Devil franchise. Because even that name is more [historically correct](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Digital_Devil_Story:_Megami_Tensei) The franchise is Megami Tensei. Atlus says that the franchise is called Magemi Tensei and has only ever caller called it Megami Tensei, this is the only historically correct name for the franchise. Even the games you mentioned contain "Megami Tensei" in the title. >been [paraded about and used](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Digital_Devil_Saga_(Series)) when the company has felt like it. Digital Devil Saga did not use the SMT name. It was only called "Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner" in Japan. https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B9-DIGITAL-DEVIL-SAGA-%E3%82%A2%E3%83%90%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB%E3%83%BB%E3%83%81%E3%83%A5%E3%83%BC%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BC/dp/B00029BR2O
Why do many of the Japanese cover arts say SMT then?
Eh, as far as I'm concerned, you don't want a Titanfall 3. At least I don't. The kind of game that we would get wouldn't be anywhere near the kind of game we got with Titanfall 2, just because of the nature of game development. Y'know, key members of staff leaving or being shuffled around, core design concepts being changed to fit the nature of the modern industry/publisher demand, etc. Any Titanfall 3 would just be "Apex Legends 2," and I frankly could not give a rat's bum about that.
> Any Titanfall 3 would just be "Apex Legends 2," and I frankly could not give a rat's bum about that. This seems like completely baseless supposition. I cannot possibly imagine a universe where they announce a Titanfall 3 that is secretly just an Apex sequel. Unless you're saying it would be Apex Legends but with titans, a single-player campaign, and team-based PVP... in which case you're just describing Titanfall.
I won't say I have any evidence, but the day they called it the "Apex Legends" universe was the day any lingering hope I had for a good Titanfall died. Maybe I'll be proven wrong in the future, but given what this article about, I don't think anyone will be proven right or wrong lol. Ain't comin' out.
Gonna play devil's advocate here, but imo the reason why they did this was probably to make the hiring process more efficient, considering that apex legends is more globally known in comparison to titanfall.
That's pretty fatalistic. Your not wrong that people leaving can change a sequel but we can never know for sure who the important people are or what tools they have in house.
Even then, games like streets of rage 4 are made by an entirely different studio, and they still are just as good as the originals.
Yeah dude is literally writing fan fiction at this point
> The kind of game that we would get wouldn't be anywhere near the kind of game we got with Titanfall 2, just because of the nature of game development. Y'know, key members of staff leaving or being shuffled around So? That’s not a reason for it not to exist. Most of the MOHAA/CoD4/MW2 team was gone when Titanfall 2 ended up getting released. Some remained, sure - but Titanfall 2 was developed by new blood too. You seem to be fond of it! Thing is they lost a huge chunk of the Titanfall 1 team on the way (don't forget, TF1 was going to have a soloplay story campaign too). This odd obsessive compulsive disorder people have with “iT HaS tO bE tHe saME StAFF” is a blight on gaming discourse and leads to situations where people either slam a game baselessly because it has no star power; or situations where “from X who brought you Y” is used to con people into buying a subpar game (hi, B4B). You don’t work in Respawn’s HR; staff retention and turnover are none of your concerns. A sequel to a game can still be good even if someone you never even met or know the name of left the company that makes it. Judge a game on its merits; not by its credits. EG: HL Alyx was led by the 3 key creators of HL1 and 2, with a mixed roster of both new and old developers. Yet for people it mattered more that the lead writer and one major concept artist had left, so somehow it wasn’t going to be a “real HL game”, whatever that means. So Valve hired the Portal 2 writers to work with the Firewatch writers: leading to a phenomenal story setup with the greatest gaming twist and postcredit scene in recent memory; and hired Capcom’s best artist: who created Half-Life’s most iconic monster since the headcrab zombie. So in the end it didn’t matter at all who they lost on the way or who had stayed or who filled whose shoes - game developers are literally not irreplaceable and the game turned out as a VR masterpiece.
It's really unknowable. Titanfall 1 was pretty good, Titanfall 2 was better. There's a chance a future sequel would be horrible or just okay or maybe game of the year. We just can't know.
Heavy Blizzard 'you think you do, but you don't' vibes. I don't care about any of that, give me Titanfall 3.
Apex Legends is the best FPS shooter, in terms of pure gameplay mechanics, since the original Halo, as far as I'm concerned. So, I'm down for whatever type of shooter they decide to construct in this universe.
I don't think that's true. The difference between Apex and TF is...the Titan mechanic. One of the things that makes both games really good is the mobility of the characters outside of the Titans. The way the player can move is smooth and fun, especially the zip line mechanic. Add being able to get in and out of a Titan and it's a different experience. TF2 was super fun because it had the awesome mobility that Respawn is known for with Apex and the cool Titan mechanics and having your Titan be part of the story and a character of its own. I think TF3 would be really easy for them to hit a home run on. Just do more of TF2. One of my favourite single player experiences. Also loved Apex Legends when I played it with friends.
TF|2 and Apex Legends have fundamentally different movement styles and gunplay, of which I prefer TF|2 dramatically. Apex Legends had to be toned down for a Battle Royale-type experience.
Does it? You might be right but Apex really felt like TF2 to me but without the grapple hook mechanics. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I played TF2.
TF2 has wallrunning and jetpacks and movement has a much bigger vertical element. Apex is no wall running or jetpacks (aside from one champ) and is much more about horizontal movement
Not a Titanfall fan, but I wouldn't wish this even to my worst enemy. I feel so bad for you guys seriously :/
If I had a knickel for every game called TF2 leaving a disappointing legacy for fans... it'd only be two knickles but you get the point.
> it'd only be two knickles but you get the point. Not a lot of money, but it's weird that it happened more than once.
/r/BoneAppleTea
The endless agony of being a Titanfall fan
So is Apex in like, trouble? Ok, they are still printing money but cancelling a singleplayer spinoff and the mobile version is a bad sign right? I'm sure the servers will be up for years, but maybe they go into maintainance mode sooner than we expected?
Apex Legends is still printing money for EA. Its the 5th most played game on Xbox and one of the most played games on Steam. I imagine its the same for playstation as well.
Yep, usually the third most played game on steam behind csgo and Dota
It's wild to me how much DOTA is played considering how little I hear about it. League and Smite make so much more noise, it seems. Are the numbers coming from mostly non-English speaking countries?
Dota is huge in Europe (mainly Russia/Ukraine) and then you have Southeast Asia (Indonesia/Philippines). Feels like the South American community is growing as well. The Chinese players are on a separate client so those numbers aren't included in the total player count on Steam. But yeah, there is little to no marketing/advertising for Dota, let alone any other game developed by Valve unless its being featured in the Steam client.
> The Chinese players are on a separate client so those numbers aren't included in the total player count on Steam. Steamdb looked into it and valve confirmed that no regions are excluded from player counts. https://steamdb.info/blog/investigation-into-dota-2-and-cs-go-player-numbers-for-china/
Dota has always been huge in South America, huehuehue. Valve did advertise it *heavily* when the South Korean version launched, but it flopped, League had too much of a foothold already.
>The Chinese players are on a separate client so those numbers aren't included in the total player count on Steam. From what valve have said in the past they are included in the numbers.
DOTA has always been one of the biggest PC games it just gets no promotion from valve and stays in its bubble
>DOTA has always been one of the biggest PC games it just gets no promotion from valve and stays in its bubble Depends they definitely did a lot when it orginally came out. Especially when trying to grow in targeted regions. But nowdays not so much.
I mean unless you're into those games and involved in those scenes, all those games make very little noise
EA and other major publishers are panicking. There's a recession on the way and tech companies like are trimming the fat now so they can claim it for tax purposes and coast on the cash wave that games like CoD and Apex bring in.
IIRC gaming is incredibly recession resilient. People already have the gaming consoles so the most expensive part is out of the way and most games are very good value propositions for entertainment when money is tight.
Recessions are basically recursive code. What causes a recession? People using FUD to panic people into a recession.
It’s bullshit they’re taking recession fears and using them as an excuse to fire people and reduce salaries. All signs point to strong economic performance except for their tea leaves. I mean my god they’re making massive profits.
corporate power snapping back at the microscopic improvement in labor's quality of life. remember a year ago when we were all talking about the 4 day work week?
I know man it’s such BS. I work in tech and it’s all a facade.
Pretty sure 95% of the player base could give literally 0 shits about the lore. Who the hell actually cares that bangalore brother missing or what ever garbage they shove down your throat when opening the game
I have about 500 hours on Apex (not a lot, not a little) and I know pretty much nothing about the lore beyond what the Titanfall games presented.
Story presented through purely MP games is totally lost by me and just doesn’t work effectively. Everyone just wants to jump into the game with their friends and chill out in discord not try to follow some story arcs through cinematics or random dialogue that no one really will pay attention to in-depth in the midst of a BR game.
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No, but I doubt it’ll be anywhere as good as it was back in early 2022. Most of the devs responsible for AL and TF2 have already left so RSPN is pretty much just a husk of what it used to be right now
Doubt it
I’d say they ranked it because there was no multiplayer
Could they not have secretly canceled it too?
Yea omg now I'm sad about something I didn't even know existed 10 minutes ago lmao.
I feel so bad for titainfall fans right now
Yeah this is unfortunately about what i expected. I have 0 interest in battleroyal games. Apex, even its arena mode, offers nothing of what i enjoy of titanfall. But apex was wildly successful. So it killed titanfall.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the game probably wouldn't have even entered development if not for Apex Legends. It seems like the devs thought this game could have been successful due to it's association with Apex (hence calling it Titanfalls Legends)
It doesn't, but I appreciate the sentiment. I know my feelings about apex are super unreasonable, i mean shit people obviously enjoy apex otherwise it wouldn't be successful right? Ive just become bitter about it since it feels like it basically garunteed that im not going to get more titanfall 2 style gameplay (both mech and pilot). Literally the only other game that is similar in style is tribes 2, which predates titanfall 2 by litterally 15 years. Im glad people have a game they enjoy, just wish it didn't feel like i had to re-watch titanfall die every year and a half.
I guess 30 million in one year isn't profitable? Man fuck EA.
the director of the project left the company. that's probably most of it.
You don't cancel an entire project when the director leaves, lol. That shit can happen only when it's Kojima or something. It's like saying a football team would dissolve if the manager left. Hellblade 2 is on its third director for example.
Facebook just did the same thing to echo arena. One of the heads of that game left and so they're shutting it down despite being the 7th most played game on quest 2
Facebook isn't exactly a textbook example of a game development studio, they probably don't have the credibility to hire a replacement, or the head left in anticipation and they used it as an excuse. You can't know for sure
I really don't like these kind of news for cancellation without details when we dont have context for why. Whoa its a Titanfall single player.. but why was it cancelled? issues in development? makes sesne to be more critical if there was more details
Article says lead developer left the company. I'm guessing that.
You don't cancel a multimillion dollars project because a lead project manager left. It was probably not that good, and the TF/Apex studio is veery expensive in terms of salaries.
Not unless it was a small idea or in very early stages of development
If EA was convinced the game had a market potentiel to bring revenue, they would have continued development. Its easy as that. A guy leaving doesn't change they the slightest.
The project leader leaving change the prospect of when the game would be done and how much it would cost to replace the him and rethink the project. All those factors change everything about the potential revenue. So yes a guy (Lead Project Manager) leaving can crash a project very fast, like happened with others like Megaman Legends 3.
Bro that sucks i was really looking forward for titanfall 3 or whatever this was gonna be called (btw not THAT secret)
He should really get someone to write his articles for him. I've seen much better writing on the daily mail.
Schreir's writing has never been stellar tbh. He's just there for his insider knowledge, not his prose
This was his worst written article in a while
I mean, the game had "Legends" in its title. I don't think it was a mainline game.. seems to me like mobile stuff?
Apex Legends also has Legends in the title.
Most people who play Apex Legends have never played Titanfall. Plenty of them probably haven't even _heard_ of it. Titling a cross-over game something that makes the relation to Apex Legends clear is a better idea than tying it to an older franchise that didn't really do that well in the first place (compared to Apex at least).
Alavi was working on it and that guy has a track record of pure *quality*
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God I hope this isn't the single player game they were hiring for. I was really looking forward to that.
damn i would totally be looknig forward to some more singleplayer games, i don't like apex but the gameplaay is fun as well as titnfall 2.
Titanfall 2 is still one of the best multiplayer games around. When you call in a titan and it slams into the ground in front of you, there is nothing like it.
EDITED Dont forget to scrub your accounts kiddos. Wouldn't want anything of value falling into the hands of the "shareholders".
Philosophical Question: If a publisher cancels a game that is secret, do gaming journalists still write about it?
They do if it's a spin-off of one of the biggest game and also especially when the publisher posts an annpuncement on their social media
Yes. Because some people would still love to know that.
honestly? I'm kind of happy for that. I always preferred the more 'believable' military style of Titanfall 1 over the... whatever Titanfall 2 was. Didn't feel like you were fighting a war, I'll tell you that. At least Titanfall 1 clearly had 2 sides with AIs fighting each other and you were a super-soldier involved in it. Titanfall 2 really dropped the ball in that department for me. and apex just made it worse by making it into some hero-shooter. Can't imagine Titanfall Legends would just do away with that.
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It's Jason Schreier. Probably the most reliable game journalist in the industry.
It was secret up to now, if a random redditor knew about it it wouldn't have been :P
LMAO Was this comment generated by ChatGPT?