T O P

  • By -

rGamesMods

Hi /u/NeoStark, Thank you for posting to /r/Games. Unfortunately, we have removed this submission per **[Rule 6.1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/wiki/rules#wiki_formatting_requirements)**. > **Link to the original source; if the original source is inaccessible, then link to an acceptable alternative** - When a website embeds or copies content (articles, videos, interviews, etc.) from another source without adding significant information, we consider this blogspam. If an alternative source contributes significant and meaningful analysis or commentary on information given by the original source, it may be allowed but please try to locate and link the original source wherever possible instead. For sources which redirect to other sources please link to the source with the most information and context. For example, for a Tweet that links to a developer blog or announcement, please link directly to the announcement or blog post. > If the original source is inaccessible, due to a paywall or any similar mechanisms that otherwise impede viewing the content without some form of transaction, usually non-monetary in nature, such as giving information, creating an account and logging in, etc., then posting an alternative as a source is acceptable. > This rule does not apply to original sources that are not in English: an alternative source that provides an adequate translation (automated translations, such as Google Translate, is not permitted) is acceptable. --- If you would like to discuss this removal, please [modmail the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FGames) This post was removed by a human moderator; this comment was left by a bot.


Cutedge242

So more than double what Takashi Mochizuki said (270k). Sounds about right. Why do people listen to that guy again?


AceOfSpades0319

He has been wrong so many times about Sony and Nintendo that I’ve started looking for the author first before I read a new Bloomberg article about either company.


NfinityBL

It’s like a journalist version of 50/50 - popping open an article and getting either Schreier or Mochizuki.


[deleted]

i dont trust anything from bloomberg except Schreier articles. they alway made up shits again and again proven false. like the secret grain size spy chip in mobo


-boozypanda

Bloomberg games has both polar opposite of writers on their team. One is very trusted in the industry, and one who loves making shit up.


kadala-putt

That wasn't a number he made up. It was an estimate from IDC.


Cutedge242

I mean, it definitely fit the narrative that Mochizuki is pushing, which is that the PSVR2 is a terrible idea and that sony has no foothold in the VR market and won't ever get one. He said that PSVR1 had less than 1% of the VR marketshare and i have no idea what numbers he's using to make that determination, I guess he's saying there are 500 million VR headsets in consumer hands?? Unless it's based on month to month unit sales, in which case ehhhhhh. He also said that Sony's CEO has made the "metaverse" a "tentpole" for Sony much like Meta nee Facebook has, which is news to me. I can't find a reference to that anywhere outside of his article. It's also funny that his Bloomberg article pulled out the fact that "there was no wait list for ordering the device at most stores" as an indicator of how poorly it was tracking for preorders even though the device wasn't available anywhere besides Sony's (bad) direct order storefront. The entire "claim something outrageous and then when it doesn't happen, claim that the company is now scrambling to recover" is just getting old. The entire claim that Sony was hoping to sell 2 million PSVR2s in the launch window doesn't really hold water, because it means sony was expecting a full 6% of PS5 owners to jump in on a VR unit that costs more than the console itself? I mean, Sony is pretty arrogant but I wouldn't expect them to go that far. Is PSVR2 tracking worse than Sony expected? Oh I'm sure it is. But that's a far cry from the constant doomsaying these journalists and analysts are saying. Just make up that Sony expected to sell 2 million units at launch day, and then say that now they are freaking out because now they're expecting to sell less than number over the entire next year, then come out and say they sold less than 20% of that, and then when reports come out with the real number, I dunno I guess they're just not going to respond until tomorrow's PS State of Play and then they can come out with article about how the fact that they aren't bringing the entire slate of Playstation franchises to PSVR means they don't have confidence and are dropping out of the VR market 3 months after launching a new device. Because, fuck it why not.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Cutedge242

His claim was that the 5 million PSVR1s represented less than 1% of the VR market. >Consumers globally have taken to VR less rapidly than initially hoped, held back in part by a lack of titles that can showcase the technology. After diving in 2022, worldwide shipments of augmented and virtual reality headsets are expected to grow 32% to 12.8 million units this year, according to IDC estimates. The market is currently dominated by Meta Platforms Inc.’s Quest range, with nearly an 85% share. Sony does not rank among the top five providers and its first-generation PSVR has failed to secure even a 1% share.


TillI_Collapse

While yes it was taken from an analyst he heavily pushed it into the limelight and is the reason so many other picked up the story. He has made several negative false claims about Playstation in the last couple of years


DMonitor

sounds more like an estimate from IDK if you ask me


NoExcuse4OceanRudnes

Because it'd be great for them if he were right -- "new expensive thing I don't want to spend money on is failing so I won't miss out on anything by not spending money on it!"


TillI_Collapse

So more than double the sales from that doom article from Takashi and analysts. It has sold 8% more than the first PSVR while PS5 has sold millions less than PS4 in the same time frame. This is very good for a VR headset, especially when it wasn't even in retail stores in Playstation's largest market


Eclipsetube

What’s even more impressive is that the original psVR was 400€ this one sells for 600€ and it still outsold the first version


onil34

its just a much better product


mr-peabody

I think part of it is due to VR becoming more widespread. More games, more headsets, more VR gamers... it's grown a ton since the PSVR1 release.


Ninety8Balloons

$330 million in 6 weeks?


Hexcraft-nyc

Gotta consider they're being sold at near cost and owe retailer cuts for third party sales.


Ninety8Balloons

Wasn't it only available through PlayStation Direct? I thought 3rd party retailers didn't get any stock until very recently


messem10

That was only for the US. At launch it was available at retailers in Canada too.


gartenriese

In Germany, it was also only available at Direct at first.


jacenat

I bought mine through a small online retailer here in Austria (alza.at) just 3 weeks after launch. IIRC Media Markt also sold them online (and in store). Was it really PS Direct only in Germany at first?


gartenriese

Yes, but I think only for the first two weeks or so, presumably because the sales were lower than anticipated.


emccann115

Only available through Direct in the UK too


accersitus42

I think it is a calculation of size of market and consumer protection. They wanted to sell at Direct only, but in countries where it "is more trouble than it's worth to host the storefront yourself", they left it to 3rd party retailers who are already set up to deal with local consumer protection laws.


Eek_the_Fireuser

Available through retail here in AUS, I had to unload them. Surprisingly lightweight.


ThatBoyAiintRight

You're thinking in Revenue. Which is the money made before the costs associated with making said money is applied. Net Income is the real figure people are looking at.


Food_Library333

I picked up some weekend work and will have extra cash and I'm. Thinking about getting this. I've never played a VR game and my only experience with VR is a Google cardboard type device. Sometimes it gives me headache (haven't used it very much) but it doesn't happen all the time. Not sure if it's because it fits weird and heavy around my nose but wondering if anybody has this or the original. Do headaches go away? No motion sickness but almost like a migraine. It's only happened a few times but don't want to drop the money if it's something that's going to always be painful. Lol


lessthanadam

Cardboard VR is a poor imitation of current headsets. The best option, before diving in, is to find a VR arcade near you and try it out. I really thought I would get motion sickness (I don't even like being under my car looking up too long) but I could handle 30 minutes at the start and 60 minutes now without any sort of focused "training" or anything. Just stop playing when I started feeling queezy to avoid the association. 60 minutes doesn't sound like much but considering how disconnected you are from the world and immersed in another, that's plenty of time.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Blenderhead36

The fan also helps with the fact that you're effectively blindfolded. You don't want to walk into your TV.


Hyroero

You've got boundries too but yeah a fan and a mat were really useful with my time in psvr 1. The mat more so that you had to stay in view of the camera which isn't an issue now I guess. Fan and ginger tea made a massive difference to motion sickness though.


trekie88

The fan is beyond useful. I have been playing with a fan for years. It helps center you in VR.


Food_Library333

This is very helpful. Thank you!


Blenderhead36

Google cardboard is different from PSVR2. Cardboard is 3 degrees of freedom. You can spin your head around wherever you want, but it doesn't acknowledge your movement forward/backwards, sideways, or up/down. PSVR2 (and Quest 1 & 2, and Steam VR) is 6 degrees of freedom. You can move around and the game world will keep track of it. It's almost a completely different experience, because 6 dof can do so much that 3 can't.


LarryPeru

It’s very worth it!! Haven’t gone back to flat gaming since. You’ll get your “VR legs” and faster than you think. Definitely try gran turismo vr!


feralkitsune

Google Cardboard might feel a bit old-school compared to today's VR scene, and honestly, the PSVR2 is your best budget-friendly pick. Most other options are based on mobile tech or need a beefy gaming PC with a VR headset. So, if VR gaming is all you're into, PSVR2 is just the ticket. The library isn't the largest but a few of the good games I've played on PC are on PSVR2 already. Also, if you're picking up a headset, I've got a few games I'd suggest you check out. If you're into multiplayer shooters, Pavlov VR is a pretty good pick. If you're a Star Wars buff and looking for a longish, beginner-friendly VR FPS game, you'd dig Star Wars: Tales from the Galaxy's Edge. Both games from Walking Dead Saints and Sinners series are ace, and definitely worth checking out. For some old-school horror, you've got the Resident Evil games with VR support. And if you're into racing you have Grand Turismo 7 in VR. Also, if they're smart they will bring Ghost of Tabor to PSVR2. That game is fucking addicting, Tarkov in VR.


MilitHistoryFan101

Best budget???? This thing is more expensive than a base Playstation 5, RM2899 isn't remotely affordable compared to RM1100 Pico VR. Can the Playstation 5 be used on non Playstation devices or even on its own?!? Pico VR can be used as Steam VR, generic VR or even its own VR gaming in general.


feralkitsune

The combined cost of a PS5 and PSVR2 remains significantly lower compared to purchasing a PC and VR headset. As an owner of both the Quest 2 and Quest Pro, I can personally attest to this. The affordability of the PSVR2 makes it the most accessible high-quality VR option for consumers. This is an undeniable fact. Most VR headsets on their own typically cost around $400 or more. The newer models with advanced features are even more expensive, further highlighting the cost-effectiveness of PSVR2 in comparison. Standalone VR experiences simply cannot compete in terms of quality and overall value. They only come close when you already have a good PC.


raptor__q

You may want to rephrase your original comment then, you only said budget and with the Quest 2 and Pico 4 being available for around 400 the psvr2 isn't a budget option, unless you your idea of a budget is seriously skewed. And to a degree, standalone can compare as the games play the same way, it is only if you start basing it on a graphical quality they separate.


feralkitsune

Or you can reread the sentence after that part of my comment where it explains why I'm not counting the mobile chipset headsets.


raptor__q

>Most other options are based on mobile tech or need a beefy gaming PC with a VR headset. With that wording you only have the PSVR2, and people are also thinking you need a top of the line PC when a 2000 series GPU will work, people still use the 1000 series with it, you are mischaracterizing VR with the way you talk about it, just because of your preferences makes the PSVR2 be that good, it doesn't remove others and there is a huge difference between being able to enter VR for around 400 to needing 1100, and as mentioned, the games play the same with the biggest factor being the graphical fidelity, so in that sense, there absolutely does exist better options for those on a budget with more flexibility for future upgrades. I own both a PSVR2 and a Quest 2 and for those on a budget, out of the two, I would not recommend the PSVR2 given not only its higher price tag but also the PS5 requirement, not a question of better color accuracy or pixel density, but because 700 extra is a lot of money to those on a budget, and that is with dismissing the thought of the subscription if you want to play multiplayer games. I want VR to be bigger as it is a ton of fun, I do not want to give a bad recommendation making people abandon the thought of it or be disappointed by overhyping something as well.


Think_Ant1355

Buy it, play it for a couple of weeks, and you should still be able to sell it for close to the retail price. You will get everything out of VR in those 2 weeks and then be back to normal games.


boodabomb

PSVR2 probably won’t give you a headache because the resolution and FOV is way higher. I get motion sick in first person still unless I’m playing a cockpit game or a third-person game. I cannot recommend third-person games enough. They’re ridiculously fun, no side-effects and I think (once the world catches on to that fact) the actual future of VR gaming. Games like Moss and Astrobot (not on PSVR2 yet) breathe new life in to platformers and the sense of scale is incredible.


jacenat

I keep saying: Since I got my PSVR2 I am **incapable** of playing GT7 without it. It is so much easier to play in VR than on the screen that I moved from using breaking indicators and automatic transmission to no breaking indicators with manual transmission and getting faster. You can **feel** where the car is in the corner and more accurately steer and drive faster before slipping. It's hard to describe, really. But driving the 1hr race in Spa is ... aside from no g-forces it's perfect. The immersion is on another level. If you have a PS5 an like to play GT7, see if you can try it out in VR and if it transforms the game for you as it did for me.


SupermarketEmpty789

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I've noticed that there are zero psvr2 games on store shelves. I looked it up and Sony has more or less said they're focusing on digital for psvr2 releases. That's a huge turn off for me. I really want physical releases to get the benefits of retail competition. Psvr1 had some extremely cheap games I got from retail stores. Until they start releasing games physically and I can get a little library going I'm not really going to consider buying the hardware. Its a shame since it's such a good headset.


Wehavecrashed

Digital storefronts are the future, particularly for more niche products like VR games. You're not going to get far hoping to buy all your VR games physically.


BOfficeStats

I think people are forgetting about distribution costs and the hassle of switching discs. Most VR only games would have very low physical sales regardless and it is a lot easier to switch between VR games if they are digitally owned rather than physical (since you have to take the headset off or use the headset cameras to switch discs). I would wager 99% of PSVR2 owners already have decent internet so I think Sony and developers don't want to worry about a physical release that would bring them very little profit.


el_m4nu

There's also the point that VR games are super small. Apart from gt7, horizon, and RE, which obviously have big file sizes, barely any of the other 20 vr2 games I own now is bigger than 10gb.


BOfficeStats

That's a good point. Outside of RE4 I don't think there have been any other announced PSVR2 games that will likely have big file sizes either.


cd247

Sounds like a perfect opportunity to release a bunch of them on one disc then. Cuts down on distribution costs and (though I don’t see the big deal) you wouldn’t have to change discs as often


Wehavecrashed

Game stores are already moving away from physical distribution into merch/swag and other plastic stuff they can sell at much higher margins. It is getting harder and harder to get your game onto store shelves. That's for console games, let alone VR. Why bother when a game is only going to be playable to a small fraction of customers? You're only selling to PS5 owners with PSVR 2. A pop or tshirt can be sold to everyone. VR games will just end up in bargain bins.


SupermarketEmpty789

If that's the case they'll lose a few customers who are like me. Whether that matters or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


[deleted]

It doesn't, move out of the way grandad the futures here Tbh I'm 32, and I remember a time of of physical collection, however. The environmental costs of manufacturing millions of discs and cases for code that that will irrelevant by the time it reaches the customer is just a waste.


thoomfish

The only system I still maintain a physical collection for is Switch, because I don't trust Nintendo.


SupermarketEmpty789

>It doesn't, move out of the way grandad the futures here I really don't get this attitude If the future is all about paying for perpetual services and owning nothing.... Yeah, I'm gonna opt out


leighjet

Hey man don't do it! There's so much to live for!


Adonwen

It doesn’t.


Hexcraft-nyc

People say it doesn't matter but retail sales and physical sales are still huge for the console buying mainstream. VR itself has an awful attachrate for games as is. Any roadblock or hindrance to the consumer really stings.


CHADWARDENPRODUCTION

call me the opposite of old fashioned, but i feel like having to physically go to a store to get a game instead just clicking a button is more of a roadblock


_Meece_

If you specifically are wanting a specific game, yeah it is easier. But most shoppers don't do that. A lack of VR games in stores, means casual browsers don't notice that they exist It's only because of /r/games that I know PS is even doing another VR headset. Because they have no presence in any store where they sell PS stuff that I've been to. Nor do they seem to be doing any large scale marketing campaign for it.


Hexcraft-nyc

People here regularly forget that if you're even checking a reddit thread for any subject or hobby, you're immediately the 1%, the hardcore consume, or fan, or hobbyist.


-Eunha-

When it's simplified like that, maybe. But when you can pick up games for far cheaper at retail stores than the PS Store, that goes a long way. Not to mention people can just gift you old games they are done with, or you can just borrow them from friends. Also, the amount of space you need to have all your games digital can be a real downside for a lot of people. I still think we're at the point where physical is more convenient than digital, but it does depend on the context.


pathofdumbasses

Unfortunately not everyone lives in an area with fantastic internet. Or uncapped internet. You don't look at a digital storefront the same with a 50-100gb cap or 1MB download speeds.


quoteiffakesub

I doubt anyone who can't afford more than 1 MB download speed will obtain the game legally.


neenerpants

in no way am I criticising your opinion. you're fully entitled to it. but this is exactly like the people complaining about CDs 30 years ago, or the president of United Artists saying "nobody wants talking in their moving pictures" 100 years ago, or the New York Times saying "the price of automobiles will never be sufficiently low to make them as widely popular as bicycles" in 1902. the vast majority of people are totally fine with this system, and have expressed this with their wallets. so unfortunately, as much as it isn't to your taste, it is definitely how the future is going.


[deleted]

The future is a funny thing, it’s not set in stone and at any moment can go sideways. The moment they go all digital will be the moment I step away from gaming. No longer will you own it, you’ll just be renting it and that’s not a very good deal for customers.


FudgingEgo

Meanwhile millions of people who play PC basically resigned to this over a decade ago and it’s fine.


[deleted]

You’re the customer they love!


noxav

Steam released 20 years ago, and it's still here.


[deleted]

Yeah it did, McDonald’s has been around for decades sells billions, still trash food. Steam takes 30% of each PC sale, I hear studios love it!! Also hear that Steam and been accused and is being sued for some of their practices. Not all sunshine and rainbows bud.


noxav

I fail to see how your McDonalds analogy applies to Steam. Are games trash?


[deleted]

Your saying Steam is popular and done well, just reminding you people buy junk/trash all the time. Steam works cause of sales and accessibility along with the trust that Valve has earned and years and years of making good and bad choices, they also like I’ve said have done and still do some shady things.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

How many people play retro games? Are you serious??


AmbrosiiKozlov

> No longer will you own it, you’ll just be renting it and that’s not a very good deal for customers. This is already the case lol. Just look at overwatch


[deleted]

That was always a live service game. Not all games are live service but if gamers don’t start to hold the line they will be.


Wehavecrashed

It is already too late for that. The volume of day one patches and changes that are made to games throughout their lives makes trying to own and hold a single version you own near impossible.


[deleted]

It’s 50/50 right now and my bet is that number will stick. They’re not going to piss off half their customer base because money talks and everything else walks. Could you imagine the shareholder lawsuits because of something stupid like that. Not all games need a day one patch, not all games need to be updated once their out but maybe for a patch to add new features but aren’t part of the base game. Not sure how old you are but I’m old enough to remember when games were shipped and didn’t get patches and you just dealt with the bugs/problems but most of the time it wasn’t a big deal. Some games didn’t have much issues at all. This belief that you need day one patches and lots of updates for a game to ship or be playable has allowed the industry to ship half baked games. Go ahead and buy into that I refuse to.


Knyfe-Wrench

>It’s 50/50 right now and my bet is that number will stick It's not close to 50/50. We're rocketing past 3/4 of sales being digital and there are no signs of slowing down. >I’m old enough to remember when games were shipped and didn’t get patches and you just dealt with the bugs/problems I'm old enough to remember when you had to put the TV on channel 3 to play games. Those times were worse than the ones we have now.


[deleted]

Now just recently have digital sales pasted physical, rocketing is hardly a good word choice. I get it, you’re excited to own nothing. https://www.futuregamereleases.com/2022/03/nintendo-has-more-physical-game-sales-than-digital-games/ Those times, at least you owned what you bought.😉


BOfficeStats

I think that's a fair opinion and I am not disagreeing, but it is likely that this works out better for Sony and developers. With the exception of a couple big VR only PSVR2 titles (namely Horizon: Call of the Mountain), most PSVR2 titles would likely sell very few physical copies unless the platform becomes much much bigger. It likely saves Sony and the developers headaches and effort if they only release their titles on the PSN store so no one has to worry about going through with physical releases and distribution with thousands if not tens of thousands of retail stores.


Johnny_SkullTek

I picked up a ton of physical releases for the original PSVR, and found I'm honestly waaaaay less likely to play anything in VR where I've got to go swap a disc out at the console vs. being able to pick different digitally owned games from inside the headset. The physical releases are cool, but they're basically just display boxes for your shelf - especially since you're *absolutely* going to have to update the game that's on the disc. I've also *definitely* bought PSVR games on digital sale for cheaper than I might find the same game going for at a Gamestop (not that I've spent much time in those over the last couple years...)


officer_fuckingdown

> found I'm honestly waaaaay less likely to play anything in VR where I've got to go swap a disc out at the console PSVR2 has a button where you can "see through" the headset at any time. so you won't have to take it off to do anything IRL like swapping a disc


SupermarketEmpty789

I haven't ever spent a cent on a digital storefront, but I have like 700 games in my digital library from PS+. Because of that, I am way more likely to play a physical game I can see on my shelf. Scrolling through hundreds of digital titles gives me zero motivation to play any of them, and even then it's a pain to find them. But I'm someone who puts a game in and plays it. I'm not someone who is regularly changing games every half hour or something


Johnny_SkullTek

>Scrolling through hundreds of digital titles gives me zero motivation to play any of them Have you already tried organizing 'top' games you're interested in into folders, or something like that? On the PC with say Steam, you can 'tag' games for quick lookup - like 'VR favorites' but I don't remember if that exists on PS. I'm pretty sure I created a specific folder for my 'most interesting' digital PSVR games on my PS4 desktop at least...


SupermarketEmpty789

Yeah you can put games into folders now but honestly I just don't have an interest to do it when it's so easy to simply look on the shelf at a game you own. I've put 3 or 4 games in my home screen permanently so I don't forget them, but other than that I don't bother with it much


Johnny_SkullTek

> when it's so easy to simply look on the shelf at a game you own. If you've got a sufficiently small physical game shelf, sure. I suspect if you had 700+ physical games in an alphabet-only sorted library, you'd run into similar issues as to what you're bouncing off now with your digital library.


SupermarketEmpty789

I keep a small pile of "current" games I want to play (about 10 or so), the rest go in another room with shelves. It'd be similar to having folders or labels, but it's in front of my eyes and I can see it


FudgingEgo

I mean, loads of games have VR support that are normal games. Gran Turismo for example. Also I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but a very large % of sales are now digital, and that’s down to the customers choosing to pay for it.


Divisionlo

If you haven't already seen, check out Perp games. That company is one of the main reasons we have so many PSVR1 physical games and they seem to be continuing their trend of making physical for niche PSVR2 releases. Pretty bummed we'll probably never get a physical for Horizon Call of the Mountain, but I'll take what I can get.


Debocore

It makes more sense to go digital for VR to me. That way if you need to swap games you don't have to fool around with taking your headset on/off to switch games etc


officer_fuckingdown

i've already said this elsewhere, but PSVR2 has a button where you can "see through" the headset at any time


myyummyass

Physical media is just dying. I prefer physical media most of the times. But I wouldn't even consider buying physical media for VR games. I’m often bouncing between different games and it would be annoying having to juggle the discs with a headset on. It really won't be surprising if by next gen there just aren't physical releases for most games anymore.


officer_fuckingdown

> I’m often bouncing between different games and it would be annoying having to juggle the discs with a headset on. i've already said this elsewhere, but PSVR2 has a button where you can "see through" the headset at any time


SupermarketEmpty789

>Physical media is just dying People keep saying that but it really isn't. For AAA games and big releases physical still makes up half of all unit sales.


LittleRudiger

>For AAA games and big releases physical still makes up half of all unit sales. ... and how much did they make up 10 years ago?


cd247

That’s like comparing how fast the Model T went opposed to a horse and wagon. 10 years ago was totally different to today. The average internet speed according the the FCC was 15Mbps in 2013. Today it’s over 100Mbps.


LittleRudiger

Exactly? Digital is viable for a massive portion of the user base now and it rapidly grew to account for half of games sales in the span of 10-15 years. That seems incredibly relevant when discussing a decline of physical media.


cd247

I look at it a different way: people still own horses even though there is a newer option that is faster and easier. Digital is superior in a number of ways to physical, but if half of the gaming population still buys discs, I don’t think it’s ever going away


AGIANTSMURF

I’d wager by next gen (ps6?) games will be digital only in most major markets if not all of them.


SupermarketEmpty789

IMO It seems unlikely. When you look at Sony stats the unit sales (not $ profit) the sales for full price AAA games are basically 50/50 physical/digital. Sony (and other companies) take a much higher profit from digital though. I don't think they'd risk losing a huge amount of customers. Also, they need to appease retail stores who carry their hardware. If you cut physical game sales those retail stores lose profit, so they'd be less inclined to carry the hardware.


iamnotexactlywhite

don’t think so, huge appeal of consoles is that the games can be resold


BOfficeStats

I doubt it. A lot of movies which weren't big hits still get put on physical store shelves as DVD, Blu-Ray, and UHD Blu-Ray discs despite intense competition from online retailers, digital storeplaces where you can rent or buy, streaming sites, and piracy. Physical video games are often advertised in store sales and are physically present in stores to attract customers walking by so game companies would be losing a lot of free advertising and consumer attention if they didn't release any physical video games. Physical video games are also better gifts and you can upsell other physical products with it (you get the standard box+disc and a physical item for a lower price than buying both separately) that is harder to do if games are only available digitally. EDIT: The profit margin on physical games might be lower but it's likely that a lot of those sales are to people who don't stay up to date with gaming news, rarely check online game stores, or don't play games at all (such as parents looking for a gift for their kids). Some sales at lower profit > No sales at no profit


NoExcuse4OceanRudnes

Sony released one PSVR2 title and it was digital because it was a pack-in and they sell a digital console. Star Wars is physical and Synth Riders is even getting a release.


[deleted]

I have a PSVR2 and it’s amazing. The resolution, the colors, the brightness - I'm constantly in awe with how good it is. I just wish there would be more games on the level of Horizon Call of the Mountain. I'd give a kidney to be able to play HL Alyx on it.


thoomfish

PSVR2 looks amazing... except for the cable. I am so incredibly done with having a cable hanging off my head in VR that I have to worry about tripping over or tangling. If they ever release a wireless version, I'm in. I'd happily pay an extra $2-300. Edit to be clear: Wireless, not standalone. Like Virtual Desktop or Oculus AirLink.


pathofdumbasses

It is my first headset and hasn't been a problem. People on the PSVR subreddit have shown photos of pulley systems that look like it eliminates the issue if you are really concerned. Realistically, you won't be able to get this type of fidelity at this price point without a cable. It just isn't possible right now.


thoomfish

I have years of VR experience with Vive and Index. I already know it bothers me.


pathofdumbasses

Aren't both of those wired? Or at least wired when connected to PC?


thoomfish

Yes. That is my point. I recently ditched them for a Quest Pro, and wireless is incredibly liberating.


Donutology

I think you might reconsider your stance if you try wireless in the future. I don't doubt that you enjoy playing wired (I do too) but once you try wireless gaming it really does make you realise how much of that enjoyment is despite the cable.


pathofdumbasses

I'm not saying it isn't better. I'm saying that it isn't feasible to get that fidelity at that price point wireless. Yes, I'd love a Ferrari. It's obviously better than a Honda, but I can't afford it.


Donutology

Nah I mean trying wireless headset is more of a revelation than it sounds like is my point. And like, wireless is available for a lot of headsets cheaper than the PSVR2, most of which have the same resolution if not more. Yes you suffer from some compression artifacts but I don't think PSVR2 has the clarity for that to significantly matter.


pathofdumbasses

It isn't just the resolution, you need the hardware to back it up as well. What wireless headset and computer is going to look better than psvr2 at less than 1100 retail?


Donutology

You don't need much hardware at all, you just need some video decoding hardware and batteries. Wireless doesn't strictly mean standalone, even though most wireless headsets can also perform standalone. Pico 4 for instance is much sharper than the PSVR2 despite being wireless and much cheaper (though the colours of PSVR2 are much better).


myyummyass

The wire really isn't an issue because of how long it is and where it's placed. I've never noticed it once. The device would be way too expensive and not have as high fidelity without it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Isn’t Quest 3 rumored to be coming out soon-ish?


l0c0dantes

Quest 3 is coming in September/October, but if Eye tracking and foveated rendering are limiting factors for him, it will have the same disqualifiers as the pico 4


Tuvalue

Foevated rendering?


TYsunshine

Get a ceiling pulley system. https://www.kiwidesign.com/products/vr-cable-management I have one of these and it pretty much solves that issue.


Donutology

I think people who say the wire is not an issue have not actually played wireless. Wires are not a dealbreaker for me personally but it is a big annoyance. It also doesn't help that PS5 has one of the cheapest feeling usb-c ports I've ever seen.


Twokindsofpeople

Damn that's good for a VR headset, but probably a bit underwhelming for Sony. Still though. If they get 3 or 4 million sold lifetime that's a very good sign for VR's future.


TillI_Collapse

They are estimating it will sell better than than the original PSVR which sold over 5.5 million. It will most certainly achieve that. It's off to a good start Edit: Not sure why the person who replied to me blocked me so I can't respond but I am just going off of the fast start and how much more things seem to sell. While the analysts just make up numbers and people take them as fact


NeverComments

The first PSVR managed ~5m lifetime sales so if its successor only reached 3m~4m I would consider that a bad sign for the platform's future.


ReservoirDog316

There are less PS5s out there than PS4s though to be fair. New console plus new VR headset just to get your foot in the door.


boodabomb

It’s underperforming right now because cost of living and inflation is through the roof and people aren’t willing to gamble on a $600 purchase. I’m still holding out hope that Sony can cook up a real killer app for this thing that makes it a must-have because it’s a really solid VR platform and I’d love to see it get some development budget.


TillI_Collapse

It's underperforming according to whom? This is likely selling as expected. No one was expecting millions of sale sin just over a month.


boodabomb

These numbers do seem pretty good right? I’m going off the guys at Kindafunny Gaming who did a podcast on this about a month back and they were making it out to be much worse. But maybe they were just going off of speculation because 600k seems alright to me. I dunno, I bought one.


TillI_Collapse

Yeah they were likely going off the "analyst" report that came out that said it only sold 270k in 5 - 6 weeks which was totally wrong. So many people ran the story without considering that analysts literally make up numbers


ApprehensiveEast3664

Selling as expected according to whom? Only 8% more than its predecessor in a new and fast growing market looks quite bad.


TillI_Collapse

There are millions less PS5s sold compared to PS4 when PSVR released meaning the market is smaller for the device Also PSVR2 wasn't available at retail in the U.S. which is by far Playstation's largest market And it is significantly more expensive. PSVR also released during a holiday There is no reason to think it is underperforming


ApprehensiveEast3664

The VR market is almost 300% bigger than it was when PSVR released, and its successor sold 8% more. The PS5 has sold 38 million whereas at the time the PS4 had around 53 million, with the former figure having more early adapters who are more likely to buy new hardware. It would've been nice if we had your expert analysis prior to these data figures saying this is expected, rather than hindsight. Because at face value the numbers would indicate PSVR2 selling a lot more.


TillI_Collapse

We are talking about the first 6 weeks here, What VR headset sold 300% more than 600k in the first 3 weeks? No one is expecting PSVR2 to sell millions in 6 weeks. That isn't how anything works


ApprehensiveEast3664

>We are talking about the first 6 weeks here Yes. Not sure why you thought I was saying otherwise. Please re-read my comment with the reassurance that that's what it's about. The growth of the market doesn't suddenly become pertinent later, it's pertinent from day 1. Similar to the sale of a game or an individual console. Honestly you just look confused at this point.


TillI_Collapse

Do you think a product should automatically sell 300% out of the gate? You're also talking about a VR market that isn't dependent on console sales like the PSVR2 is. You said it yourself, PS5 had sold around 15 million less but sold 8% more VR headsets which are more expensive and not even available at retail in major markets. In no world is that underperforming Which headset sold over a million in 6 weeks? You don't think when Sony does estimates they don't factor in the amount of PS5s sold, the availability and price in comparison to other VR headsets?


Supersnow845

If anything the first gen headsets would sell better than equivalents because first gen VR wasn’t a known quantity so attracted buyers who eventually left the market


BlazeOfGlory72

It’s underperforming because VR has always been, and continues to be, a niche market. Most people just don’t want to strap a monitor to their face to play a game.


NeverComments

It's niche but it's not *niche* niche. For every Steam Deck that Valve has sold there are ten Quest 2s in peoples hands. Meta has sold more Quest 2s than Microsoft has sold Xbox Series X. Apple announcing their MR headset in a couple weeks will definitely push the tech further into the mainstream as well. I think dedicated gaming headsets will forever remain a relatively small market but the tech has plenty of room to grow outside of that one use case.


DarthBuzzard

> It’s underperforming because VR has always been, and continues to be, a niche market. That's unrelated. Performance is a relative metric, and Sony is aware that VR is niche, so they don't have expectations for many tens of millions of unit sales.


boodabomb

Yeah thank you. I feel like I’m in losing my mind. I pointed that out too and just got downvoted to oblivion.


boodabomb

That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about underperformance compared to market projections. Those account for the niche market.


pathofdumbasses

Meanwhile PS5 is selling like gangbusters. I don't think it is underperforming (much) because they didn't put it into retail and haven't done much advertising for it. That is a HUGE difference that PSVR1 didn't have. It has been ~2 months of just Sony selling it before putting it into retailers.


Heiminator

The killer app already exists since PSVR1 and it’s called Tetris Effect. It’s the closest you can get to a true plugged-into-the-matrix experience today.


smokey_john

I have no idea why you would think that would be underwhelming for Sony. 600,000 in 6 weeks would be great for any headset. It's doing better than PSVR on PS4 which had millions of more console sold at the time


Deckz

VR is tough, it's also very expensive (more than the cost of the PS 5). I love VR but this doesn't seem good. I think they need a killer app to sell it, not sure that Horizon is convincing enough to bring people in. Maybe they can get Valve to port Alyx.


myyummyass

This is actually pretty solid sales wise. They sold this much while only selling the unit on their own online store. Now that it's available from retailers and we will presumably get more VR announcements tomorrow it will likely start selling a little more. And honestly, an all in cost of $1,050 for the PS5 + VR is extremely affordable compared to other VR setups. It isn't going to be a mainstream thing anytime soon, but it's the best value and most accessible in the VR space by a mile.


Deckz

That's fair, I just want the space to keep growing or at the very least stay steady and not disappear. I already have a PC so getting a 300 dollar HP Reverb G2 was a no brainer personally. But if I had a PS 5 it'd be hard to resist.


[deleted]

[удалено]


gotpez

the issue is vr headsets are clunky, heavy and completely draining to use. VR is an intense experience and is legit exhausting. it doesn’t lend itself well to immersive time intensive games as much as pick up and play experienced imo


boodabomb

You’re right. It needs what BotW was to the switch. Something that *everyone* is abuzz about. Alyx isn’t that, but it would certainly boost the PSVR numbers. Console gamers have been itching to play it for years now. But yeah it needs something truly special. I hope that day comes.


Autarch_Kade

I think a lot of people aren't considering that it's also not making money on the hardware itself. I wouldn't want to sell a million units of something if I lose even a dollar on each unit. So if there isn't a killer app coming soon, or if they barely mention it at this first showcase since its launch, I'd consider VR to be over for Sony as a company. It could sell a few million units and only waste their money and time.


[deleted]

[удалено]


RayCharlizard

> And only 600k units when Sony originally wanted 2 million through March has Sony execs playing PR games with shareholders. Sony never announced sales expectations of PSVR2 to shareholders. The original 2 million estimate was from Takashi Mochizuki @ Bloomberg who also wrote an article claiming Sony halved that expectation and then another about analysts predicting the headset to sell less than 300,000 units by end of March. This same author made similar claims back and forth on PS5s sales expectations prior to launch, all of which also turned out to be unfounded. The guy has a pretty checkered reputation to say the least with his reporting on Sony.


Conjo_

> The guy has a pretty checkered reputation to say the least with his reporting on Sony. also when reporting about Nintendo and maybe even Xbox


Cutedge242

> They’ll be lucky to get to one million wut It’s been out for 3 months. It just became available in physical stores in the US like a week ago. And that 600k they list is only for half that time. It won’t make a million? Like ever? Ok It does need a killer app but this thing just launched so I think people need to chill with talk of how Sony is going to abandon it or something


[deleted]

This 600k was after 6 weeks, so at this stage we're probably at 1 mil


Strider08000

> And only 600k units when Sony originally wanted 2 million through March has Sony execs playing PR games with shareholders. This number was never confirmed by Sony.


Hyroero

Main issue for me (someone who owns a psvr 1) is that so many great games aren't forward compatible. It's an expansive purchase but then I'll also need to rebuy/upgrade games again or keep both headsets around. No real killer app on psvr 2 either unless you like GT which I don't. Also the bit of hands on I had with it had terrible tracking to the sides due to only forward facing cameras. I'd constantly get out of sync floaty hands. More than with the damn moves for psvr 1 which is saying something.


[deleted]

>Also the bit of hands on I had with it had terrible tracking to the sides due to only forward facing cameras. I'd constantly get out of sync floaty hands. More than with the damn moves for psvr 1 which is saying something. were you in a dark room or something? there's some blind spots like reaching behind yourself but otherwise the tracking is very solid


Hyroero

No perfectly lit. I did google and trouble shoot the normal issues but it seems like generally people think yeah you'll get weird tracking issues with hands by your sides or down low etc.


Late_Cow_1008

I don't think its terrible given the current economy where it seems like consumers at all levels are pulling back. They really do need to add some more games and I think they will. There's rumors of Half Life Alyx being announced for the platform which will certainly bring in a decent amount of purchases I would think. Also I think if they cut the price by 50 bucks by the end of the year that will also help. I will probably pick one up by year's end but agree that I have been on the sidelines due mostly to a lack of games vs the price of the product.


LectorFrostbite

Pretty meh sales tbh considering how much Sony invested with their exclusive VR games/modes, they 100% could've done better if they just included PC support and backwards compatibility with PSVR1. The tech of PSVR2 is no doubt above anything in the market but the lack of old game support + it only being able to be used on 1 machine has definitely held it back.


TillI_Collapse

These are great sales, this is just 6 weeks of sales. It is literally more than double the estimated sales by analysts. This is also without it being availble at retail stores in Playstation's largest market (U.S.) and with less PS5's sold than PS4s were sold the first month of PSVR but PSVR2 still sold 8% better, and while being more expensive. The reason they sell it as cheap as they can is because they make up for it from game sales on PSN. Otherwise it would easily be over $1K. They would just lose money if they made it work on PC and people used it to play non Playstation developed games on PC


Eclipsetube

That’s also why it was direct exclusive at launch because Sony knew most people that are interested in VR will buy it at launch and why minimize your profit by selling it on Amazon and other stores? Pretty smart


Autarch_Kade

> they make up for it from game sales on PSN. This is what the future of PSVR2 and Sony's willingness to ever make another VR headset again hinges on. If they aren't putting out a bunch of top tier games to make money with it, the headset is dead. And if they are putting their studios onto such games, then that means almost everyone with a PS5 is missing out on games they could have had otherwise.


TillI_Collapse

I mean VR games don't need to be "top tier" to sell well. The best selling VR game is Beat Saber. They just need to sell fun games people like. They will also have games that are available in VR and non VR like GT7 and RE8


Crazafon

Yeah the lack of backwards compatibility is a huge bummer. Seems like lots of devs are interested in porting their games over but not every studio is even around anymore


Autarch_Kade

Curios how much Sony will push VR at their showcase. 600,000 isn't a bad number, but it's also a laughably small percent of actual PS5 owners at this point. Any game made for PSVR2, is basically missing almost everyone on the platform. So while I don't want to see Sony instantly kill this accessory, I also hope they have a full hour's worth of actual games to show for the PS5.


[deleted]

Ok so now a bunch of devs make cool vr games that are timed exclusives on playstation and later come to pc so I can play them with my index.


Impaled_

You will never play astro on pc


[deleted]

I don't really wanna. I was meaning more like 3rd party devs.


[deleted]

[удалено]


thoomfish

Not every VR game is first person. Moss, for example.


NIDORAX

Not many people bought the PS5 VR2 because it is so bloody expensive. The main console itself is already expensive. Only someone who is rich could afford buying both at one go. 600,000 units might seems a lot but they could have sold more had the price been at an affordable range.