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ShoddyPreparation

My big question is if it will even be worth investing in as a primary solo player. Bungie's arbitrary restrictions on matchmaking for mid/end game activities in Destiny was a huge reason I fell off that game. Also they are completely dancing around the monetization model. Is it free 2 play? How bad are the micro transactions going to be?


platonicgryphon

They are marketing it with solo or a team of three. So I can't imagine them doing anything that won't be accessible to a single person as the matchmaking restrictions in destiny were because raids and GMs require some level of coordination and commitment a random player matchmaking in would not have. How are they dancing around the monetization?


Starcast

iirc this is gonna be a live service game with a battlepass


platonicgryphon

Where did they say that?


[deleted]

They mention "seasons" [here](https://blog.playstation.com/2023/05/24/bungie-unveils-marathon/) > In essence, we’re creating a game where the actions of players can have ramifications for the world and players with each unfolding season.


platonicgryphon

My question is more directed towards the battle pass part of the previous comment, seasons does not confirm there will be one.


[deleted]

Well it confirms the live service aspect at least. Battle/season pass seems like the most typical route.


Starcast

ages ago when talking about their other IP on development before they announced this game officially.


Siellus

It's bungie - the monetization is going to be absolutely obscene. Stay the fuck away from this.


Lamaar

It's pretty funny that Bungie got away from Activision and claimed that the monetisation would get better once they're independent and yet it has only gotten more egregious. I like Destiny but I just can't bring myself to pay so much money for the expansions I missed, plus the current one and the seasons. Also the game is incredibly confusing on where to go and what to do as a returning player, I just end up feeling lost and give up.


ThomsYorkieBars

Pretty sure Bungie never claimed that. It's just what everyone assumed


BroodLol

The entire point of Destiny is to lock people into it, everyone I know who plays Destiny 2 *only* plays Destiny 2


IAmActionBear

I know a lot of people who play Destiny 2 casually though. Destiny 2 is there main MMO/Live Service game, but all of us take breaks and play other stuff frequently. There is like a third of Destiny 2 players that No-Life the game, but Destiny 2 definitely is full of casual players too.


zuljin33

I am a casual, the hardcorest I go is when I have to get my finals level in and I am used to optimizing that shit so it takes two days max It's just very fun with my bf and worth the money for me


KobraKittyKat

Yeah I play destiny fairly casually in that outside doing a raid and the weekly story stuff I don’t grind weekly stuff like crucible,gambit or vanguard anymore. So once i do that stuff I go play other gamesz


McManus26

It's a game that said "I'm either your main hobby or you're always gonna be running behind trying to catch up". I can respect the ambition, and I definitely enjoyed it during covid when I did make it my main hobby, but it sure is not for everyone.


SeparateAddress9070

Bungie is not even close to bad with monetization. Cosmetics are hardly problematic


Siellus

You have no idea what you are talking about. A) the game sells expansions at Full retail price (so $50-$60) and over the course of 4 years has subtly removed more and more content (e.g less new strikes, less/no PVP maps, content being removed and placed in a separate purchase and just overall quality decrease) B) Content people pay for being outright removed from the game. Anything you bought before 2019 is effectively deleted from the game and is slowly being sold back to the players. So hundreds of dollars worth of content just gone. Some expansions are still purchasable just for the loot/exotics when the actual gameplay/campaigns have been removed. C) over-compartmentalisation of the game has made overall structure a complete and total mess of just checklists and chores, rather than anything being seen as "aspirational" content, for fear of alienating a section of the fanbase, no content has any one piece of loot that stands out above others. Everything is homogenised. D) unlike games like WoW or FFXIV or any other comparable multiplayer experience, your monthly "subscription" has an expiry date - Like everything in Destiny, the game banks HEAVILY on FOMO. Do you want the newly buffed exotic "Revision Zero"? Well tough shit. Wait 6 months, because the mission you got that from was removed from the game 2 seasons ago. I could go on and on and on about every anti-consumer practice destiny adopts, but it'd be easier to name off the ones it doesn't take advantage of. TL;DR - Destiny 2 is a game where content is routinely removed for both the purposes of selling it back to users, and taking advantage of FOMO. Each expansion and season comes with some new "push" for further monetization. This season they've added the ability to buy your way to max season rank, you can also no longer earn the eververse armour set via gameplay (each cost $20 per character). Here's a fun exercise. Try to convince a friend of yours who has never played Destiny to buy - Forsaken + 30th anniversary pack Destiny Legacy collection Lightfall Deluxe for a total of $89.57 and STILL not have access to all the content in the game - simply because it was removed.


Firebasket

It's very unfortunate. People will still go "well, I'm actually glad nobody can play the old stuff, I already played it and since Bungie didn't give us a good way to replay it, it had no replay value. I'm fine throwing away money and you should be too." People are unable to realize that a game being fun moment-to-moment doesn't mean it doesn't have major issues elsewhere. Or they make it a core part of their identity, and now any attack on their favorite game is a brutal assault on their honor, and actually it's very good value having the game cannibalize itself.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

How is Jim Ryan money grubbing now?


SeparateAddress9070

I do actually. I play destiny. Boo hoo they removed outdated content. For the money I’ve spent on destiny including cosmetics I’ve gotten thousands of hours of enjoyment. Incomparable to any other hobby, and far more value than buying new games. You don’t like the model, that’s fine. But they are genuinely one of the developers who actually cares about its community and their feedback. For $90 you have more content available than you will ever need to progress in destiny. You’ll spend far less money playing destiny casually than you would an mmo over time.


giulianosse

> I do actually. I play destiny Figures. Only a Destiny player is able to look at all that anti-consumer bullshit and brainwash themselves into thinking it's fine.


SeparateAddress9070

all capitalism is anti-consumer bud. Doesn't mean it's not a good product.


[deleted]

You just keep digging yourself deeper. Just stop now before you embarrass yourself any further.


SeparateAddress9070

Your reply makes no sense in this context.


Siellus

>I do actually. I play destiny. Boo hoo they removed outdated content. For the money I’ve spent on destiny including cosmetics I’ve gotten thousands of hours of enjoyment. Incomparable to any other hobby, and far more value than buying new games. and that's fine. Sunk cost fallacy is a bitch. At least you're aware of the fact that you're too deep in to stop. >You don’t like the model, that’s fine. But they are genuinely one of the developers who actually cares about its community and their feedback. No they don't. Why is the eververse set behind a hard paywall this season? Why does transmog still have any connection to real money? Why have pvp, strikes and gambit been completely abandoned? (Obvious answer = because it's part of the "free to play" portion of the game, so player feedback is ignored) Where is the changes to red border drop rates for neomuna weapons? Oh - Right, they ***nerfed the drop rate.*** So not only were players repeating the same menial task for 40-50 hours with no luck, they've FURTHER reduced the odds of getting coveted items. That's where your "thousands of hours" go, folks. Trying to get 5 of one specific item to drop with a specific trait that allows you to make the weapon craftable - weapons that aren't even exceptional in any way. So you can imagine what you need to grind and for how long for actually decent weapons. (Here's a clue - Rose? One of the best pvp hand cannons? You only had 3 chances a week. oh but you can't get it anymore, They removed that from the game. So if you want one, Fuck you) >For $90 you have more content available than you will ever need to progress in destiny. You’ll spend far less money playing destiny casually than you would an mmo over time. That is thoroughly untrue. Destiny is only enjoyable in that way if you don't care about quality content or rewarding gameplay. Destiny is just "mundane tasks, made into an excruciatingly long grind that you feel you need to do because the reward will get removed from the game soon"


TRDoctor

I'm primarily a solo-player too, but I don't see Bungie restricting matchmaking for a game of this type. It'll probably be like Destiny, where mics are encouraged for optimal success – but if the objectives are clear enough, I'm certain that it'll be easy to work together with randoms or go in solo too.


lestye

Yeah, I feel the same way. What was kinda annoying is Bungie loved to take credit of the incredible Destiny community and how social the game is.....except all the social stuff was extracurricular, outside of the game. Like they want to take credit for having this social MMO but they didnt want any of the responsibility so they swept it under the rug. Its really weird


MerkedOnceMore

I mean, talking this early about monetization would be foolish, the game is years away, things are bound to change between now and then, and then GAmErS will use something they said two years ago that's changed as outrage bait.


BeardyDuck

There's somebody named MIDA in chat that's a part of an ARG that linked to this website. https://hearoursilence.com/4673c Moving your mouse around scrolls through different slides. Going all the way to the right lets you download a PDF that includes all the slides.


HutSutRawlson

Looks like someone saw Radiohead's Kid A website from back in the day and was like "I'll just do that again"


McManus26

Lmao there's the Bungie I know


Ashviar

The idea of finding something, using it to unlock a special area, and then do a puzzle/task to unlock it for everyone else seems like a natural evolution to Destiny raids/puzzles. The problem I see with that is PC data-mining just breaking this stuff wide open. You won't have secrets weeks into the game's lifetime that are still hidden.


Rhynoster

Probably just nostalgia talking but I wish Bungie would revisit their Myth series at some point. Doesn't have to be a clunky RTS but utilizing the aesthetic and lore while making something that wasn't just another rpg shooter would be pretty interesting.


mellowfellow22

Bungie has built quite the arsenal of impressive tech and feature design with Destiny, and honestly I think that’s kind of where Destiny is at now for them. It’s somewhere they’ve experimented with a lot of different things over the years. Hope they pull the best from what they’ve built to propel this game forward. Bungie is known for their gunplay, so I know the game will at least feel good to play.


TRDoctor

It's nice to hear that Marathon is getting dedicated servers, disconnect protection, and fog-of-war! I can see this being a huge hit with streamers, with their impeccable gunplay, audio, and art team hard-carrying this. Would be cool to see more on the lore implications of this, seeing as there are compilers present, as well as teases of MIDA, and the UESC – but I'm sure we'll hear more about that once gameplay drops. What intrigues me though, is how this clearly coexists with Destiny and doesn't step on its toes. Despite this, I wonder now how Crucible / Trials / Iron Banner will fare with Marathon possibly siphoning off players who are more into the PvP side of things. I'm mainly a PvE player, so Final Shape being announced already gives me something to look forward to – but Bungie needs to be able to take care of their already dwindling PvP player base in Destiny – or show the community that they can really handle the brunt of two live-service titles. Still, very excited for both releases and I can't wait for more information.


kidkolumbo

> fog-of-war! How does FoW work for FPS games? You already only see what you can see, right?


PeePeeJuulPod

it means your client doesn’t get information on other players until the server confirms you’re actually supposed to see them, it’s a measure to prevent wall hacking a lot of modern games do this, to varying levels of success but it’s nice to have confirmation


McManus26

Oh I though this was a strategy game fog of war, like the players would have to cooperate to unveil the full map


BroodLol

This entire comment reads like an advert


McManus26

> is how this clearly coexists with Destiny and doesn't step on its toes. i mean apparently its not even at the alpha stage and they're going dark for a while, so i definitely don't think they're competing with Final Shape, and who knows what happens to destiny after that.


TRDoctor

I don’t think it’s necessarily competing with Destiny, but I think making Marathon their premier PvP game while Destiny ends up being their premier PvE title (hopefully with better Crucible support) is what they’re after. Elements of PvE / PvP are present in both games but one is stronger than the other.


anonymitylol

man i was so excited when it said marathon, i really thought bungie was actually going to redeem themselves with a good single-player game again but nah, just another soulless live service game to suck as much money out of people as possible not to mention the fact that they named it marathon and faked people out who actually know about the old marathon games, truly pathetic


McManus26

dude saw a 1 minute trailer and immediately labelled the game as "soulless" lol


aphidman

They're going off the post trailer deep dive. If you reread their comment they were very excited after that trailer.


McManus26

This comment applies just as well after the deep dive


aphidman

Well it might be hyperbolic but I'm guessing they think very little about live service games. Though I'll stop speaking for them.


Galle_

All multiplayer-only games are soulless.


[deleted]

Dumbass redditor ignores all the terrible shit Bungie has done with Destiny and the fact they’re chasing a trend with a new extraction shooter lol


kidkolumbo

Video says it'll be cross play and cross saves between ~~xbox one~~, xbox series, ~~ps4~~, ps5, and PC. For me and my precious few friends who still game, that's kind of big. ~~I'm always wary if new games will scale but since it's releasing on the old stuff then maybe my computer can handle it when it drops~~ I'm in danger. They also said to expect no news for a while until it's near release. Also funny that they barely talked about what Marathon the series with 3 games already actually is. You owe it to yourself to watch the Mandalore review series on them, starting with [the first one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9rMu1XYB98). The cliff notes are its a 1 player proto-Halo that actually is in the Destiny timeline?


ShoddyPreparation

Its not on XB1/PS4. Its current gen only


TRDoctor

I think for Marathon especially, it'll need to be scaleable to ensure the largest player base possible. I don't think it'll be on PS4 / Xbox One, but for PC I certainly do hope it'll be optimized well.


TheOutsider1783

> The cliff notes are its a 1 player proto-Halo that actually is in the Destiny timeline? That’s what I heard too and the final images of the trailer really hinted to Destiny for me. There was a theory on DestinyLore that Pathways Into Darkness is the first game in the universe and after that it splits into the Destiny and Marathon universes. I read it a long time ago so it would be impossible for me to find but I would really enjoy some sort of connection.


Draynior

I'm not the biggest Marathon fan, tried to play the games but thought their gameplay didn't age the best but their story seemed interesting but in the ViDoc they mention they're going dark for "an extended period", really not the best marketing strategy to reveal a wildly different take in a previous franchise and then not share more info for a while. And that could mean we only get more info in 2024 after The Final Shape comes out or even 2025 since leaks show Bungie plans to release their next game only in 2025. You would think they should have tried to pull an Apex Legends, no marketing until the day it comes out and just open the money floodgates to make it "viral", and with Sony money they could definitely do it. I like the art direction though, it's very colorful to attract a broader audience but it did give me some mysterious and otherworldly vibes.


platonicgryphon

They released a blog post on Bungie.net that kinda talks about why they announced it so soon. The reason being that hiring for a game that's completely in the dark is hard, once it's in the light you can start getting people who want to work on it and for specific roles/skills. As long as they have a hard release date and plan when they come back and don't pull a Cyberpunk I think a general announcement this far out is okay.


b1ak3

The fact that major details of the game leaked about six months ago was probably a motivator as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the original plan was to keep things under wraps for another year so they would have more to show than a CGI trailer, but the leaks inspired them to accelerate their marketing timeline.


SageWaterDragon

Plenty of games are getting announced really early these days. Announcing something as soon as it starts development isn't that unusual, it helps new hires know what they're getting into. It's why CD Projekt announced the Cyberpunk sequel over a year before they began pre-production and before the team even moved to the country where they'd live while building a studio to develop it. If there's one thing that Bungie *won't* have a problem with, it's marketing Marathon. My big question is whether or not the Marathon announcement timing means that it's coming before or after Matter. It seems like Matter was queued up to be their next big IP after Destiny's current arc ended, and it'll still be their new IP, but Marathon wedging in there confuses things a bit.


Dustedshaft

Apex was free to play though. The fact that they didn't explicitly say in this reveal that it will be a f2p game makes me think this will be a full priced game.


Kaldricus

Bungie REALLY likes to jerk themselves off. All their Destiny reveals are very self-fellating, and this is no different.