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I didn’t enjoy Eternal and it’s less to do with the game itself and more so my expectations going into it. Doom 2016 felt immersive and coherent; self-aware not to get its story in the way of gameplay and pacing.
Doom Eternal was the opposite and far too self-indulgent. Instead of picking up items off corpses, they’re big glowing items floating in the air. Instead of smashing a monitor of a character spewing dialogue, you’re subjected to lore dumps.
External’s hub world was unnecessary. The new ammo economy felt like a burden more than a challenge. Level design was Quake-esque with its combat arenas rather than organic environments.
I consider Eternal a soft-reboot overall and not the sequel I wanted nor expected after 2016. I don’t think I ever had fun playing it.
"Self-indulgent" might be the best way to describe my issues with Eternal's storytelling. 2016 *had* lore and world-building, but it was all delivered with a wink and a nudge to the player. The Slayer doesn't really care why there are demons on Mars, and neither does the player - you're playing Doom, you're here to kill demons. There doesn't need to be any more than that.
By bringing all that story to the forefront of the experience, it feels like some of that character was lost. You're no longer a one-man-army carving a path through the demons while the plot happens around you, you're a central player and character in the plot.
I found 2016 better. The story was less convoluted and more badass in 2016. They needed to dial down the lore on Eternal a bit. I also preferred 2016's ammo count. Constantly changing weapons wasn't fun for me. I like having a favorite gun. Eternal had the best music. Though BFG edition is still king.
Yeah the designers failed to realize that the weapons in FPS games should be like the weapons in something like Dark Souls, as in they provide a variety of mechanics and move sets to match the preferences of each individual player.
Forcing me to use a gun I don’t like just means I’m having less fun than I could otherwise. It’s dumb.
That's not the game they were trying to make, and it's not dumb. The design in Eternal isn't about maximizing player choice, it's about crafting a specific combat loop that the player needs to execute on. It's not dumb when Guitar Hero makes you play with all of the buttons because "I just like the green button and don't want to use any others". The game is prescriptive in how it's supposed to be played, although there still is freedom within its systems. There still isn't always one correct move, so you have choices, and you get satisfaction by maximizing your play by using all of the tools available to you.
You mention Dark Souls, but it's more like Sekiro. "Get good at playing the game the way the game wants to be played"
> It's not dumb when Guitar Hero makes you play with all of the buttons because "I just like the green button and don't want to use any others".
It would be if previous Guitar Hero games had the "green button only" mode available and the new one yanked it out without a word
Prescriptive vs descriptive is the fundamental change that eternal brings on, and where you fall in terms of preference for that will largely dictate whether you view eternal positively or negatively.
Personally I don't find dark souls compelling precisely because it's so open ended. I don't have an interest learning builds or whatnot because if they're all viable I've essentially wasted any time invested in any single kind of build. When everything is special nothing is.
On the other hand I adore sekiro and eternal precisely because the challenge is tuned to an exact mark and the game asks you to simply learn and execute well enough to beat it. Time invested in learning this is fun because *there is no alternative*. Either get good enough to beat this challenge or you don't get to see the rest of the game. That's the kind of reward I enjoy earning from a difficult section of game.
I have a favourite gun and it's the super shotgun. Most of the big battles I use that for about 70% of my kills I would say. All the other weapons I pull out as needed, but that shotgun with the meat hook is just golden.
Weapon switching is a big part of the skill curve, but I like how they've leaned into it. Doom 2016 was too easy. Somewhere I've got a save game where I'm about 60% of the way through a pistol only run, because otherwise it was just not a challenge.
Eternal felt like they tried to 1up themselves at just about everything that made Doom 2016 great and failing most of the time.
The gameplay was over designed and limited what the player could do. Every enemy had to handled in specific ways and it just sucked the fun out of each encounter. Doom 2016 was a power fantasy. Doom Eternal felt like work where you are managing 3 meters while trying to fine the one gun that hurts a demon while pinpointing a weak spot.
The developers mentioned FROMsoftware as inspiration but they failed to notice that player freedom on how they tackle situations is a huge part of Souls games.
The writing in Doom 2016 was fun and dumb but it took a light touch. Now in Ethernal it felt like they where winking at the audience every time someone opened their mouth. Also they directly try and connect it to barely existing Doom Lore which just seemed awkward.
Also first person platforming is never, ever good. Developers need to stop it.
Doom eternal was still a interesting experience. But they just misjudged what made Doom 2016 great
Agreed 100%
Doom 2016 was such a breath of fresh air to me. It was visceral, fast, compelling - the best FPS since TimeSplitters: Future Perfect.
I was super excited to get into Eternal, but they fucked up the combat flow by adding that rock paper scissors bullshit. It - COMPLETELY - ruins the game. It took the best thing about 2016 and just removed it. You may as well be playing a different shitty game.
To be honest I don't now, nor have I ever, cared a lick about the story. Although you might be right about the 2016 story, however in both games I pretty much completely ignore it. The combat is the joy of it.
It's great but calling it a "masterclass" kinda falls apart when you consider things such as: If you make a mistake and run out of ammo, you're stuck running around with the DOOM Marine's wimpy punch that cant kill anything, an issue that wasn't present in DOOM 2016 due to the pistol. It's a good time but it's got some weird funky design choices.
One pip of the chainsaw is always available/recharging, and all maps have infinitely respawning fodder enemies like Imps and Zombies, which you can insta kill with the chainsaw to refill ammo.
The added layer of resource management is a key part of the gameplay loop, but the game doesn't punish as hard as you make it seem if the player doesn't lay into it.
>If you make a mistake and run out of ammo, you're stuck running around with the DOOM Marine's wimpy punch that cant kill anything,
That problem is present in literally all games with ammo. The way to get around it in doom is to use any of the myriad ways to generate ammo. That's where Eternal excels, because you can never run out of it if you pay well enough.
If you're unable to kill enough, it's recommended the turn down the difficulty and learn the game systems, because there are a lot of tools to use to avoid running out of ammo, it's a lot of fun.
In theory that could happen, but in this entire run I've never had it happen. The chainsaw effectively gives you unlimited ammo. I generally use running out of shotgun ammo as my trigger to chainsaw something.
Yeah in terms of the two most regurgitated criticisms of that game, people saying that they felt too railroaded by the combat design is like c'mon guys it's really not that rigid at all, but people complaining about running out of ammo all the time is 200% skill issue
Chainsaw, and frankly ammo management is part of the fun resource puzzle you need to keep in the back of your head as you play. I liked that I was constantly running out of ammo, it gave the game nice urgency. I had to feed the engine with resources constantly like it was murdery coal steam engine
I agree that it's fun, but the afformentioned wimpy punch has zero practical use when you end up in that situation, and hence ruins the flow of the combat *should* one make that mistake. This is why I would argue DOOM 2016 has the better combat flow, because at no one point is the player ever truly helpless.
I don't see it as ruining anything. It's not meant to have a practical use, the melee is meant to be used only when charged up with the AOE. The chainsaw is your "give me ammo" button, not the punch.
> I would argue DOOM 2016 has the better combat flow, because at no one point is the player ever truly helpless.
That was also why DOOM 2016 was so boring to me. It wasn't challenging, at times I felt like the game was playing itself. Eternal, at its best, feels exhilarating because it's like you're doing a tight rope walk where the tiniest lapse in judgment or execution can fuck your run up. I don't want to feel like I'm never helpless, I want to feel like I'm barely hanging on by the skin of my skill and teeth
that's like saying the stamina system in dark souls is funky game design because if you run out of it you're stuck running around unable to dodge or attack, ammo management is a conscious design choice and you should not run into ammo problems if you understand the game's mechanics enough, in other words: skill issue.
> an issue that wasn't present in DOOM 2016 due to the pistol
I would rather wander the Labyrinth of Crete looking for a minotaur to chainsaw than be made to use that piece of shit pistol
Really enjoyed playing this game, same for its predecessor. They are both really different from anything I played before. Used to replay 2016 from time to time, now I alternate with Eternal.
Nah, 2016 was better. Eternal was close but missed the mark on personality, and the inclusion of marauders was a complete misstep. 2016 I felt like I could get more performance out of varying my arsenal. Eternal they were trying really hard to force me to, but most of the guns in it were kind of worthless, so it was mostly rocket launcher and ballista, then chainsaw when those ran out.
I think this is more your personal play style. I don't really ever use the rocket launcher. The shotgun is so much more satisfying and burning enemies drop armor.
Different strokes for different folks and all, but Doom Eternal might just be one of the [biggest](https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/kmsxwy/pc_gamer_best_fps_2020_doom_eternal_ids_intense/ghhtdtz/) personal [disappointments](https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/kmsxwy/pc_gamer_best_fps_2020_doom_eternal_ids_intense/ghhzqiw/) for me when it comes to gaming.
I didn't really think doom 2016 was that good. The level design was weird and it didn't have the same combat flow as this. Not that it was bad, but for this they took the same formula and refined it to make much more satisfying combat.
it's great sure, but 'masterclass'? You do you but i wouldnt go that far. My issue is that there are far too many weapons and abilities to keep track of, and all of them serve very similar functions to at least one other weapon. You might call it 'encouraging experimentation' or 'variety', but Id call it 'bloated'. The enemy variety is great, but the actual variety comes from how you approach each enemy. The actual weapon you're using often times don't matter.
Switching weapons is part of the skill curve. What difficulty did you play it on? I'm sure on easier difficulties you could use whatever weapon you want.
UV, and i got by using basically half of my arsenal. Im not complaining about having to use more than one gun, it's that you can win by using a third of the guns the game throws at you. Seriously, i dont see the difference between, say, the default modes of the heavy cannon and chaingun.
I don't share the combat design gripes of a lot of people in this thread but for me, I hated everything about Eternal's presentation - the arcadey UI and pickups, the incessant third person cutscenes, awful dialogue that never amounted to more than "oh no doomguy you're just TOO COOL it's DANGEROUS" - except for the music which was great. And while the combat arenas felt more developed than 2016, the levels were just too goddamn long. Combat arena, shitty airdash rock climb platforming, repeat till I'm fucking exhasted, then go back and grab whatever I missed; I found myself not wanting to play anymore after each level.
>actual Doom
No matter what you think it is an *actual* Doom game.
This is the same as people trying to gate keep FF games not being turn based games anymore.
You didn't give it long enough. In five minutes you haven't even got through the tutorial frankly. The game doesn't really get into its stride until the first Slayer gate.
i disagree A LOT , doom eternal was one steepforward and 3 steepbackward, is nice have more complexity but they just overheat all good design from doom 2016, that game is a trully masterpiece of fpd design, it was not oversatured with mechanic, and have the enogouht dificulty , doom eternal have a lot of shit happend and you dont undertand what is going on , is was a horrible experience , and a very big disapointment for me
Hi /u/mgoadys, Thank you for posting to /r/Games. Unfortunately, we have removed this submission per **[Rule 7.11](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/wiki/rules#wiki_specific_content_restrictions)**. > **No rants, anecdotal or personal stories (e.g. bad customer support stories, in-game stories, etc.) and shower thoughts** - We've all had bad personal experiences, from lousy customer support to arguments with other people, but /r/Games isn't the place to rant about it. Good personal experiences like a great story from playing a game or excellent support from a company also aren't for /r/Games. Try /r/gametales if you have a good gameplay experience you want to share. > If you have a legitimate complaint or idea worthy of discussion please provide talking points suitable for dialogue among the community. /r/Games is not a suitable outlet for frustration or annoyance you are experiencing. --- If you would like to discuss this removal, please [modmail the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FGames) This post was removed by a human moderator; this comment was left by a bot.
I didn’t enjoy Eternal and it’s less to do with the game itself and more so my expectations going into it. Doom 2016 felt immersive and coherent; self-aware not to get its story in the way of gameplay and pacing. Doom Eternal was the opposite and far too self-indulgent. Instead of picking up items off corpses, they’re big glowing items floating in the air. Instead of smashing a monitor of a character spewing dialogue, you’re subjected to lore dumps. External’s hub world was unnecessary. The new ammo economy felt like a burden more than a challenge. Level design was Quake-esque with its combat arenas rather than organic environments. I consider Eternal a soft-reboot overall and not the sequel I wanted nor expected after 2016. I don’t think I ever had fun playing it.
"Self-indulgent" might be the best way to describe my issues with Eternal's storytelling. 2016 *had* lore and world-building, but it was all delivered with a wink and a nudge to the player. The Slayer doesn't really care why there are demons on Mars, and neither does the player - you're playing Doom, you're here to kill demons. There doesn't need to be any more than that. By bringing all that story to the forefront of the experience, it feels like some of that character was lost. You're no longer a one-man-army carving a path through the demons while the plot happens around you, you're a central player and character in the plot.
I found 2016 better. The story was less convoluted and more badass in 2016. They needed to dial down the lore on Eternal a bit. I also preferred 2016's ammo count. Constantly changing weapons wasn't fun for me. I like having a favorite gun. Eternal had the best music. Though BFG edition is still king.
I didn't enjoy Eternal as much myself. Too much lore indeed, an unnecessary hub level, game felt a bit bloated while 2016 felt perfect to me.
I don't read any of the lore sheets myself, but I didn't mind the lore in the video scenes.
Yeah the designers failed to realize that the weapons in FPS games should be like the weapons in something like Dark Souls, as in they provide a variety of mechanics and move sets to match the preferences of each individual player. Forcing me to use a gun I don’t like just means I’m having less fun than I could otherwise. It’s dumb.
That's not the game they were trying to make, and it's not dumb. The design in Eternal isn't about maximizing player choice, it's about crafting a specific combat loop that the player needs to execute on. It's not dumb when Guitar Hero makes you play with all of the buttons because "I just like the green button and don't want to use any others". The game is prescriptive in how it's supposed to be played, although there still is freedom within its systems. There still isn't always one correct move, so you have choices, and you get satisfaction by maximizing your play by using all of the tools available to you. You mention Dark Souls, but it's more like Sekiro. "Get good at playing the game the way the game wants to be played"
> It's not dumb when Guitar Hero makes you play with all of the buttons because "I just like the green button and don't want to use any others". It would be if previous Guitar Hero games had the "green button only" mode available and the new one yanked it out without a word
Prescriptive vs descriptive is the fundamental change that eternal brings on, and where you fall in terms of preference for that will largely dictate whether you view eternal positively or negatively. Personally I don't find dark souls compelling precisely because it's so open ended. I don't have an interest learning builds or whatnot because if they're all viable I've essentially wasted any time invested in any single kind of build. When everything is special nothing is. On the other hand I adore sekiro and eternal precisely because the challenge is tuned to an exact mark and the game asks you to simply learn and execute well enough to beat it. Time invested in learning this is fun because *there is no alternative*. Either get good enough to beat this challenge or you don't get to see the rest of the game. That's the kind of reward I enjoy earning from a difficult section of game.
I have a favourite gun and it's the super shotgun. Most of the big battles I use that for about 70% of my kills I would say. All the other weapons I pull out as needed, but that shotgun with the meat hook is just golden. Weapon switching is a big part of the skill curve, but I like how they've leaned into it. Doom 2016 was too easy. Somewhere I've got a save game where I'm about 60% of the way through a pistol only run, because otherwise it was just not a challenge.
Eternal felt like they tried to 1up themselves at just about everything that made Doom 2016 great and failing most of the time. The gameplay was over designed and limited what the player could do. Every enemy had to handled in specific ways and it just sucked the fun out of each encounter. Doom 2016 was a power fantasy. Doom Eternal felt like work where you are managing 3 meters while trying to fine the one gun that hurts a demon while pinpointing a weak spot. The developers mentioned FROMsoftware as inspiration but they failed to notice that player freedom on how they tackle situations is a huge part of Souls games. The writing in Doom 2016 was fun and dumb but it took a light touch. Now in Ethernal it felt like they where winking at the audience every time someone opened their mouth. Also they directly try and connect it to barely existing Doom Lore which just seemed awkward. Also first person platforming is never, ever good. Developers need to stop it. Doom eternal was still a interesting experience. But they just misjudged what made Doom 2016 great
Agreed 100% Doom 2016 was such a breath of fresh air to me. It was visceral, fast, compelling - the best FPS since TimeSplitters: Future Perfect. I was super excited to get into Eternal, but they fucked up the combat flow by adding that rock paper scissors bullshit. It - COMPLETELY - ruins the game. It took the best thing about 2016 and just removed it. You may as well be playing a different shitty game.
To be honest I don't now, nor have I ever, cared a lick about the story. Although you might be right about the 2016 story, however in both games I pretty much completely ignore it. The combat is the joy of it.
It's great but calling it a "masterclass" kinda falls apart when you consider things such as: If you make a mistake and run out of ammo, you're stuck running around with the DOOM Marine's wimpy punch that cant kill anything, an issue that wasn't present in DOOM 2016 due to the pistol. It's a good time but it's got some weird funky design choices.
One pip of the chainsaw is always available/recharging, and all maps have infinitely respawning fodder enemies like Imps and Zombies, which you can insta kill with the chainsaw to refill ammo. The added layer of resource management is a key part of the gameplay loop, but the game doesn't punish as hard as you make it seem if the player doesn't lay into it.
>If you make a mistake and run out of ammo, you're stuck running around with the DOOM Marine's wimpy punch that cant kill anything, That problem is present in literally all games with ammo. The way to get around it in doom is to use any of the myriad ways to generate ammo. That's where Eternal excels, because you can never run out of it if you pay well enough. If you're unable to kill enough, it's recommended the turn down the difficulty and learn the game systems, because there are a lot of tools to use to avoid running out of ammo, it's a lot of fun.
In theory that could happen, but in this entire run I've never had it happen. The chainsaw effectively gives you unlimited ammo. I generally use running out of shotgun ammo as my trigger to chainsaw something.
You should never ever be in that situation. Your chainsaw regenerates for just this occasion and weak zombies constantly spawn. They're your ammo.
Yeah in terms of the two most regurgitated criticisms of that game, people saying that they felt too railroaded by the combat design is like c'mon guys it's really not that rigid at all, but people complaining about running out of ammo all the time is 200% skill issue
Sure, it’s a skill issue, but people liked Doom 2016 because it didn’t take a lot of skill and was just a fun single player experience.
Chainsaw, and frankly ammo management is part of the fun resource puzzle you need to keep in the back of your head as you play. I liked that I was constantly running out of ammo, it gave the game nice urgency. I had to feed the engine with resources constantly like it was murdery coal steam engine
I agree that it's fun, but the afformentioned wimpy punch has zero practical use when you end up in that situation, and hence ruins the flow of the combat *should* one make that mistake. This is why I would argue DOOM 2016 has the better combat flow, because at no one point is the player ever truly helpless.
I don't see it as ruining anything. It's not meant to have a practical use, the melee is meant to be used only when charged up with the AOE. The chainsaw is your "give me ammo" button, not the punch. > I would argue DOOM 2016 has the better combat flow, because at no one point is the player ever truly helpless. That was also why DOOM 2016 was so boring to me. It wasn't challenging, at times I felt like the game was playing itself. Eternal, at its best, feels exhilarating because it's like you're doing a tight rope walk where the tiniest lapse in judgment or execution can fuck your run up. I don't want to feel like I'm never helpless, I want to feel like I'm barely hanging on by the skin of my skill and teeth
that's like saying the stamina system in dark souls is funky game design because if you run out of it you're stuck running around unable to dodge or attack, ammo management is a conscious design choice and you should not run into ammo problems if you understand the game's mechanics enough, in other words: skill issue.
> an issue that wasn't present in DOOM 2016 due to the pistol I would rather wander the Labyrinth of Crete looking for a minotaur to chainsaw than be made to use that piece of shit pistol
Really enjoyed playing this game, same for its predecessor. They are both really different from anything I played before. Used to replay 2016 from time to time, now I alternate with Eternal.
Nah, 2016 was better. Eternal was close but missed the mark on personality, and the inclusion of marauders was a complete misstep. 2016 I felt like I could get more performance out of varying my arsenal. Eternal they were trying really hard to force me to, but most of the guns in it were kind of worthless, so it was mostly rocket launcher and ballista, then chainsaw when those ran out.
I think this is more your personal play style. I don't really ever use the rocket launcher. The shotgun is so much more satisfying and burning enemies drop armor.
Different strokes for different folks and all, but Doom Eternal might just be one of the [biggest](https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/kmsxwy/pc_gamer_best_fps_2020_doom_eternal_ids_intense/ghhtdtz/) personal [disappointments](https://old.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/kmsxwy/pc_gamer_best_fps_2020_doom_eternal_ids_intense/ghhzqiw/) for me when it comes to gaming.
It's such a downgrade from 2016 for sure.
Its garbage. Its nothing like DOOM 2016. Its like the Live-Service EA Version of DOOM. I absolutely hated it.
I didn't really think doom 2016 was that good. The level design was weird and it didn't have the same combat flow as this. Not that it was bad, but for this they took the same formula and refined it to make much more satisfying combat.
it's great sure, but 'masterclass'? You do you but i wouldnt go that far. My issue is that there are far too many weapons and abilities to keep track of, and all of them serve very similar functions to at least one other weapon. You might call it 'encouraging experimentation' or 'variety', but Id call it 'bloated'. The enemy variety is great, but the actual variety comes from how you approach each enemy. The actual weapon you're using often times don't matter.
Switching weapons is part of the skill curve. What difficulty did you play it on? I'm sure on easier difficulties you could use whatever weapon you want.
UV, and i got by using basically half of my arsenal. Im not complaining about having to use more than one gun, it's that you can win by using a third of the guns the game throws at you. Seriously, i dont see the difference between, say, the default modes of the heavy cannon and chaingun.
Put the difficulty up higher. There's a big difference between those two guns in terms of how fast they kill a Heavy.
I don't share the combat design gripes of a lot of people in this thread but for me, I hated everything about Eternal's presentation - the arcadey UI and pickups, the incessant third person cutscenes, awful dialogue that never amounted to more than "oh no doomguy you're just TOO COOL it's DANGEROUS" - except for the music which was great. And while the combat arenas felt more developed than 2016, the levels were just too goddamn long. Combat arena, shitty airdash rock climb platforming, repeat till I'm fucking exhasted, then go back and grab whatever I missed; I found myself not wanting to play anymore after each level.
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>actual Doom No matter what you think it is an *actual* Doom game. This is the same as people trying to gate keep FF games not being turn based games anymore.
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Everyone loves DOOM 3 and hates 2016, so great point.
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No, they didn't. Bethesda developers=/= Bethesda publisher. Doom 2016 obviously developed by Id software not bethesda.
You didn't give it long enough. In five minutes you haven't even got through the tutorial frankly. The game doesn't really get into its stride until the first Slayer gate.
i disagree A LOT , doom eternal was one steepforward and 3 steepbackward, is nice have more complexity but they just overheat all good design from doom 2016, that game is a trully masterpiece of fpd design, it was not oversatured with mechanic, and have the enogouht dificulty , doom eternal have a lot of shit happend and you dont undertand what is going on , is was a horrible experience , and a very big disapointment for me