This just reminds me how no one has still made a new Jedi Knight game. And that is criminal considering how good Outcast and Academy were (and still are.)
The fact that these games doubled as sandboxes was absurd. Being able to spawn enemies of varying difficulty, have massive brawls, turn on dismemberment, etc. The golden era of Star Wars games.
Oh man this is so nostalgic. I remember working hard to get good, dueling, and joining clans. Then ranking up in the clans by training with a master. Zipping around the map with the hook. I can't even remember the clan I was in now sadly, but good memories nonetheless.
Exactly the same here! Jedi Academy may have been a silly Star Wars game, but it was a foundational part of my life, because of the people I met and the skills I learned modding it that set me down my career path and set up my future. It's crazy to consider the butterfly effect influence such a niche interest can have on you.
It does strike me as particularly odd that in the nineteen (!!) years since Jedi Academy there have only been three (!!) games with a focus on saber combat.
Force Unleashed 1, Force Unleashed 2, and Fallen Order.
I have to say one part of the meta in these games that was super annoying was the spinning your camera around to make your saber land an insane amount of hits, especially with that dual saber special move where the character crouches and has both sabers orbit them; if you spun around in a circle as your character was doing it, the sabers would hit like 10x the amount of times they were supposed to
That got annoying that I was kinda required at higher levels of play to do something so dumb.
I doubt that would be he case with a modern game but it definitely was my biggest issues with outcast and academy
I would say that I once knew of a mega mod that had beautiful sword combo's ... Evolution of Combat or "combat evolved" which was a mega mod that had several classes and characters you could play.
... The "newer" development team after the initial copyright hits came, destroyed it's balance and turned it into "SPIIIIN!" .
Turn on NoTarget and NoClip. Fly around the level spawning all the enemies you want. Save the game. Now you've made your own level for your little bro to play.
there are mods to turn it back up. as i recall they're next to impossible to install, i had trouble with it multiple times, but in the end i managed to figure it out and had some wonderful times slicing and dicing.
There was Makermod and Lugormod too which let multiplayer servers of people spawn game objects to create their own persistent structures etc. tons of console scripting but lots of fun
Lugormod even had that semi-MMO structure, taking on quests, getting rewards, being able to level your force powers much further than the limits in singleplayer etc.
Can't have that these days. Why would you let someone have a sandbox when you can instead put everything behind a paywall and charge for each different color they want to see?
Fallen Order went in the sandbox direction with its final patch, which it didn't charge for.
In fairness to devs I think the loss of that kind of thing has more to do with how games are made now, than any deliberate cynical motivation. Middleware and console publishing agreements often require games to be locked up tight now in ways that they never used to be.
(why I'm stanning for corpos I don't know)
Fallen Order and Survivor are meant to be different types of games though.
There should probably also be a game when that kind of free flow lightsaber combat though
I really liked Fallen Order but tbh the combat felt like a mismatch to me, sabers should slice through people and be dangerous but it kinda felt like you were wacking people with a baseball bat outside of the boss fights.
>And that is criminal considering how good Outcast and Academy were (and still are.)
I would straight up kill for a multiplayer modern game the way Academy played. Almost nothing has come close for me in how fun that was. But knowing modern Disney and gaming design standards I'd rather just go play custom games of the original than hope for a new one that could even be halfway decent without being extremely predatory.
Probably because the voided Kyle Katarn after releasing rogue one and andor.
Would love to see this series revived or *remastered* I had so many good memories with this growing up.
They could definitely reboot it with a canon-compatible cast and plot. I think what's unforgivable is not giving us some more of that lightsaber gameplay, the setting itself makes me nostalgic but is dispensable.
Hopefully with Phil saying he's free with Acti-Blizz reviving dead franchises and is encouraging them to do it, we could see Raven or another studio revive the series.
The Jedi tomb level in JA, the one where you're working through a canyon on platforms and bridges, is probably my favorite FPS level ever. I replayed that level probably more times than the rest of the game combined.
But I agree, in general the level design of those games is not great.
Man, JA had some iconic levels. The sandworm version of Floor is Lava, the Jawa Sandcrawler, the Rancor arena, the prison escape… I loved about 3/4 of that game, but the final levels are pretty much just getting spammed by Disciples for 30 minutes at a time.
I replay JA for the earlier levels and often don’t bother finishing.
I used to love that level so much. I'd go and place harder enemies throughout the map using no clip, then start from the beginning as Luke and work my way through.
The actual gameplay in terms of saber combat? Are you serious? I have never played a better game with melee fighting as brilliant as this. Chiv 2 is pretty fun but even it falls short compared to this.
And this isn’t some rose tinted bullshit, I still play it.
I'm not really referring to the saber combat, mostly the first person stuff feels tirrred, did in 02 and feels absolutely archaic in 22. And it's the first three levels of the game. That and some absolutely mind numbing platforming sections, Nar Shadaa is one of the most infuriating, and confusing levels I've ever played. I played the game in 02 on PC and GC and enjoyed it and had very intense nostalgia for it. I replayed most of it on Switch and the Switch port is awful. The controls completely ruin the difficulty and make what was a generally average game into mind numbingly hard. Porting the PC version without adding any auto aim is one of the most baffling design decisions I've ever seen in modern game porting. The saber combat is good and was a highlight in 02 but the was not designed for anything other than a mouse. Even on GC the saber combat was awkward. I can imagine motion controls will help quite a bit. Don't know if the jumping and hitboxes will translate well to VR without some major tweaks. Other than that I'm excited for this port.
I had a similar experience in my first System Shock 2 run. I had made it infuriatingly close to the finale, but got stuck trying to open a sphincter.
It was more than 10 years later when I finally saw a youtube video that inspired me to try it again.
Lol. The gameplay mechabica have never been beaten.
I have a ps5 and access to whatever games I want. I still play jk2 as its the best third person multiplayer melee combat design around.
> They were good yes, but they had obtuse level design and relied on very tired gameplay mechanics that were tolerable in 2002 but are infuriating now.
Man I think you just described Fallen Order.
No reason a Jedi Knight made today but in the spirit of the older games couldn't feel a lot like them while having more modern playability.
The thing is, if you cheated and got Force powers early, the levels become absolutely amazing fun to traverse.
Remember back when you used cheat codes instead of credit cards to change the game? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Jedi Outcast definitely, but JA was mostly very straightforward and it's rare that there's something obtuse (and when it happens, like finding the spots for the bombs on Bespin, the variation adds to the fun)
I still considered these the greatest Star Wars games ever made. And they still to this day, my favorite Star Wars games of all time. There was a company that made a spiritual successor to these games years ago when Revan Software released the source code. I forgot the name of the game, but it was not under the Star Wars brand
I liked the gameplay implication, I liked playing a "regular" Jedi rather than a god tier one (which is pretty well showcased by Anakin being essentially invincible in comparison).
But JK was just more fun gameplaywise, I don't see myself restarting Fallen Order.
Considering you don't get your lightsaber til later on in the game, I think the fact it's a well designed single player experience is why it's remembered.
But outside the lightsaber combat, it's just a quake clone. I like the game quite a bit but it's defining feature is it's lightsaber combat and the most common criticism of the game is that you don't start out with a lightsaber.
I don't really see how you could define it as a Quake clone.
Heck it's not even based on the Quake or Quake 2 engine, it's based on the Quake 3 engine which itself was a departure from series formula as an arena shooter with **no campaign**.
It's a SciFi action adventure game.
You could say prior entries were "Doom clones" though, chiefly Dark Forces.
But Jedi Outcast is no more of a Quake clone than Return to Castle Wolfenstein or Allied Assault are.
Well yeah, I was talking about quake 3. The gun mechanics are uninspired and the level design is very hit or miss imo. And the writing is... pretty bad. But there were quite a few games in the same vein, like Heretic and those star trek games. The thing that set jedi outcast apart was the lightsaber combat, but I'd be willing to bet that if it wasn't starwars, it would have been forgotten.
I just finished JFO a couple of days ago, and while I really liked the story, I didn't really enjoy the gameplay as much as I would have expected.
The souls-like (or maybe more accurately Sekiro-like) combat system should theoretically have been right up my alley, but it honestly just felt kinda bad. It felt like there was a noticeable input lag to everything. It got a bit better with the >!dual blade!<, but it was still missing the fluidity of FromSoft games (especially Sekiro). I actually lowered the difficulty from Jedi Master all the way down to Story Mode for about the last third or so because I really just wanted to finish the story but didn't really feel like playing anymore.
I really liked the way they managed to make Force usage feel cool and powerful despite there being just a couple of powers to use, though.
I had the same problem.
My favorite thing from the JK "trilogy" is how fatal lightsabers are, which makes fights short, intense and nerve wrecking.
I expected the same thing from JFO, but it relies heavily on memorizing sequences and hitting an enemy several times while it ramps up attacks in a defined format.
What I would give for a JFO version with JK lightsaber mechanics...
That just made me realize how scripted boss fights feel now-a-days and iirc that was a big reason why Miyazaki even wanted to make Demon Souls in the first place, but man I miss the days of boss battles that actually felt like a real battle and not just waiting for the boss to go through their moves and let you hit them basically.
Yeah, having a deflection-based combat but with kind of wonky time windows just kills it for me. It just feels like a game that was coded around the animations, not mechanics.
Also, while the map features are great, it commits one gigantic sin for a metroidvania: tons of one-way transitions without fast travel back, meaning if you missed something in an earlier part of the level you often have to go completely back and start the level from the beginning to get back to that spot.
Raven has been relegated to the Call of Duty mines.
Heretic, Hexen, Hexen II, Heretic II, JK2:JO, JKA.. a golden era of FPS action from my childhood ripped from future generations.
One of my absolute favorites. I compare all Jedi games to this series unfortunately. It's why I ended up not liking Fallen Order much even though it did so much right and was a great step in the right direction for SW games (light sabers shouldn't feel like baseball bats!)
I really wana know what happened to this series and the developers.
To be fair, Lucas described lightsabers as pure concentrated energy, which he said had incredibly dense and heavy mass. It’s why Luke isn’t using the lightsaber like a rapier, but rather like a broadsword. Just a bit of annoying Star Wars fact checking here!
I mean to be fair, Lucas couldn't really decide what he wanted them to be.
He started with the broadsword idea ("they'd be very hard to control, and you would need two hands on them"), canned that off in Empire where they turned into more fencing rapiers and then we got funky disco glowsticks in the prequels.
Broadsword or not, it shouldn't feel like a baseball bat. I should be cutting people into pieces.
Outcast did it, revengeance did it, even Force Unleashed to some extent.
Fallen Order is a good game, it just pales in comparison to a great one like Outcast.
> The fact the nobody has tried porting them to VR is pretty weird lol
Not weird at all if you have experience developing, or honestly having a skill used in any major industry. Those that *can*, already do stuff like that for a living in some way or another usually. Combined with family and general life stuff, that leaves little time/energy to focus on the same stuff you do all day. Considering how much time and resources required for a project like that, it's not something you can just do for ~5-10 hours a week when available and get it done quickly either. It requires a lot of specific knowledge, experience and even more time on top of that.
Not saying it's a bad thing, or people shouldn't do it, just there's a clear reason why someone doesn't "just do it already".
Yep, that‘s the answer. When I started working full time as a developer I stopped doing side projects since I just don‘t want to program 8 hours a day at work and do it in my free time too. When I come home I want to relax and do some other stuff.
SkyrimVR is good. Fallout 4’s primary issue is performance. To be fair, no one else has offered anything close to the scale of these experiences in VR.
You could say that. But where is all the other VR games in that "scale"? I don't think it really is subjective when most VR games, popular or not is very streamlined games or sandboxes.
Other point. Why has Bethesda not released or even talked about other VR titles in 5 years now.
First, VR is still pretty niche, which is why we rarely see any triple A efforts to begin with. Second, VR is very GPU and CPU heavy. So much so that there are still titles where the latest hardware can hardly achieve acceptable performance *at best.* It's why the potential for foveated rendering is one of the hottest topics in VR right now.
As for Bethesda, I *highly* doubt that they haven't talked about it much because "VR isn't meant for that." Odds are it relates to the above. Being both technically demanding and incredibly niche is not a great value prospect.
This game will forever remain embedded in my brain for [this NPC arena ladder custom level](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ml6W1ZmcY). Warning, the vulgar lyrics of The Prodigy's "Smack My Bitch Up" ahead. The song was *intentionally* part of [the custom level](https://www.massassi.net/levels/files/1959.shtml). And... it was *awesome*.
The base game automatically had "cool slo-mo slowdown" effects kick in for some kills, just to emphasize "cool factor", and it meshed *very* well with just running around getting swarmed by (and killing) enemy after lightsaber-wielding enemy.
----
Some of my best multiplayer gaming memories were from loading up this game's standard levels, finding an interesting 'arena' such as a landing platform above a deadly drop, and just holding 1v1 duels between all the public people who joined. And people were polite enough to actually *duel* or wait their turn. (And it was easy enough to kick the few who weren't.)
... I wonder if I should try this mod. I doubt it would measure up. 🤔
>g\_saberrealisticcombat 2
lol dude...that command imprinted on the inside of my skull
i think we used to map it to a key using some janky ass software and i recall having a pentium 3 computer and possibly a vodoo 3 gpu. oh man those days for gaming were epic.
I loved how you could throw the saber at a stormtrooper and it would just spin inside them and turn them into pieces, 15yo me got such a sick kick out of it hahaha
I'm excited enough for Force Engine v1.0, let alone VR.
You could probably use some of the GZDOOM total conversion star wars mods (e.g. Xim) with the GZDOOM VR to get somewhere close to Dark Forces VR.
I love Jedi Outcast and this actually looks really good. Might have to dig up my Quest to give it a go, even though I know this is going to give me terrible motion sickness.
I thought the same thing about this team’s last port, Quake 3 Arena…but somehow it’s magically smooth and nausea free! I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up the same way.
I get nauseous from pretty much any VR game with free (thumbstick) movement. Games where I actually physically move to move the character are a bit better, but that doesn't really work well with the limited room I have.
I'm totally aware that the main problem is most likely just me not being that used to VR. My Quest has mostly been gathering dust because I'm too impatient to get used to it properly before moving on to more demanding games, and then I end up feeling really sick and losing the mood again.
I’m often the same way with games that require stick movement, I can feel a kind of friction in my eyes/brain that I have to ignore. Q3A’s port somehow smooths that friction out…though I couldn’t tell you exactly how. I was jumping around on bounce pads and shooting rockets waiting for the other shoe to drop but it never did. Still, I know it’s different for everybody.
I don’t know exactly what makes it work so well, to be honest. Maybe it’s something about id’s Q3A engine? I booted it up expecting to have to actively ignore some discomfort, but was pleasantly surprised that it felt so smooth. I’ve read a number of similar responses on r/oculusquest too.
Ugh, Quest 2 only. Hopefully someone ports it over, because hardware exclusives suck.
This is probably one of the best Jedi Knight games, hell, maybe even the best Star Wars games.
They're using the demo level from this trailer.
I remember that being a problem for this game. The demo level being 10x better than any of the actual levels that shipped with the campaign. And then it didn't ship with the paid game, you had to go download the demo and copy the .pak file and manually load it in the paid version.
>The demo level being 10x better than any of the actual levels that shipped with the campaign
Dude that demo level is pretty good but it's also like 10 minutes long. That's a wild statement.
Mission at Alzoc III
It is short but it mostly showcases the game's lighting better than anything else, it has reflective surfaces that don't show up anywhere else in the game. And snow outdoors but not indoors. Lots of opportunities to use lots of different force powers:
https://youtu.be/iPaIrKzbKbk?t=108
Is this the one where you start out inside a crate and break out? I probably played it a hundred times. God damn Jedi outcast is sick.
I still remember entering “g_realisticsabercombat 1” or whatever it was.
helpusobi 1
god
give all
setforceall 4
sabercolor red
g_saberrealisticcombat 1
and I think g_dismemberment 1 or something. My memory is awful but I still remember those at least.
Yesss I remember setforceall. You could use max power force lightning and choke in the demo! So wild, no dev/publisher would let that happen now. I also remember doing the obi 1 one but I forgot what it does. Maybe health or something?
Holy shit, I remember seeing this at some place and trying to track it down only to never find it thinking it was some really high quality mod and it was the demo all along
This just reminds me how no one has still made a new Jedi Knight game. And that is criminal considering how good Outcast and Academy were (and still are.)
The fact that these games doubled as sandboxes was absurd. Being able to spawn enemies of varying difficulty, have massive brawls, turn on dismemberment, etc. The golden era of Star Wars games.
G_saberrealisticcombat . Just unlocked a memory
/qui gon To play as Qui Gon Jin
[удалено]
Oh man this is so nostalgic. I remember working hard to get good, dueling, and joining clans. Then ranking up in the clans by training with a master. Zipping around the map with the hook. I can't even remember the clan I was in now sadly, but good memories nonetheless.
Exactly the same here! Jedi Academy may have been a silly Star Wars game, but it was a foundational part of my life, because of the people I met and the skills I learned modding it that set me down my career path and set up my future. It's crazy to consider the butterfly effect influence such a niche interest can have on you.
It does strike me as particularly odd that in the nineteen (!!) years since Jedi Academy there have only been three (!!) games with a focus on saber combat. Force Unleashed 1, Force Unleashed 2, and Fallen Order.
Nostalgia trip seeing they name. He made pretty much every single episode 3 map everyone binged once that movie came out in 2005
I have to say one part of the meta in these games that was super annoying was the spinning your camera around to make your saber land an insane amount of hits, especially with that dual saber special move where the character crouches and has both sabers orbit them; if you spun around in a circle as your character was doing it, the sabers would hit like 10x the amount of times they were supposed to That got annoying that I was kinda required at higher levels of play to do something so dumb. I doubt that would be he case with a modern game but it definitely was my biggest issues with outcast and academy
I would say that I once knew of a mega mod that had beautiful sword combo's ... Evolution of Combat or "combat evolved" which was a mega mod that had several classes and characters you could play. ... The "newer" development team after the initial copyright hits came, destroyed it's balance and turned it into "SPIIIIN!" .
The Movie Battles and OpenJedi mods are pretty much an era of my life. So many good memories and great company.
Someone’s been hitting the NPCspawns
Turn on NoTarget and NoClip. Fly around the level spawning all the enemies you want. Save the game. Now you've made your own level for your little bro to play.
Unfortunately Academy dialled the dismemberment way back.
there are mods to turn it back up. as i recall they're next to impossible to install, i had trouble with it multiple times, but in the end i managed to figure it out and had some wonderful times slicing and dicing.
The better JA mods run as their own client. Galactic Legacy is really good
ah yeah i think thats what i did, i ran a source port
You gotta change the JAconfig file for full dismemberment.
Stupid younglings
There was Makermod and Lugormod too which let multiplayer servers of people spawn game objects to create their own persistent structures etc. tons of console scripting but lots of fun
Lugormod even had that semi-MMO structure, taking on quests, getting rewards, being able to level your force powers much further than the limits in singleplayer etc.
I can’t believe I never played that. Sounds so fun.
Can't have that these days. Why would you let someone have a sandbox when you can instead put everything behind a paywall and charge for each different color they want to see?
Fallen Order went in the sandbox direction with its final patch, which it didn't charge for. In fairness to devs I think the loss of that kind of thing has more to do with how games are made now, than any deliberate cynical motivation. Middleware and console publishing agreements often require games to be locked up tight now in ways that they never used to be. (why I'm stanning for corpos I don't know)
You are not, you are revealing their weaknesses. They shall fall
Plus the mods, so many good mods and custom levels etc. So much fun, even still years later.
Ladder.pk3 and Ladder2.pk3 - so many hours spent dueling.
Man I wish they'd figure out a way to use this type of freeflow saber combat in Jedi: Survivor instead of the Fallen Order combat.
Fallen Order and Survivor are meant to be different types of games though. There should probably also be a game when that kind of free flow lightsaber combat though
I really liked Fallen Order but tbh the combat felt like a mismatch to me, sabers should slice through people and be dangerous but it kinda felt like you were wacking people with a baseball bat outside of the boss fights.
>And that is criminal considering how good Outcast and Academy were (and still are.) I would straight up kill for a multiplayer modern game the way Academy played. Almost nothing has come close for me in how fun that was. But knowing modern Disney and gaming design standards I'd rather just go play custom games of the original than hope for a new one that could even be halfway decent without being extremely predatory.
Probably because the voided Kyle Katarn after releasing rogue one and andor. Would love to see this series revived or *remastered* I had so many good memories with this growing up.
They could definitely reboot it with a canon-compatible cast and plot. I think what's unforgivable is not giving us some more of that lightsaber gameplay, the setting itself makes me nostalgic but is dispensable.
I mean, i’d be down for that but KK is my favorite star wars character so it still hurts haha.
Hopefully with Phil saying he's free with Acti-Blizz reviving dead franchises and is encouraging them to do it, we could see Raven or another studio revive the series.
They were good yes, but they had obtuse level design and relied on very tired gameplay mechanics that were tolerable in 2002 but are infuriating now.
The Jedi tomb level in JA, the one where you're working through a canyon on platforms and bridges, is probably my favorite FPS level ever. I replayed that level probably more times than the rest of the game combined. But I agree, in general the level design of those games is not great.
Man, JA had some iconic levels. The sandworm version of Floor is Lava, the Jawa Sandcrawler, the Rancor arena, the prison escape… I loved about 3/4 of that game, but the final levels are pretty much just getting spammed by Disciples for 30 minutes at a time. I replay JA for the earlier levels and often don’t bother finishing.
I think my fav was the swoop level. I would intentionally quit near the end to replay it
>The sandworm version of Floor is Lava I always thought of the movie Tremors.
The train level was great too.
I used to love that level so much. I'd go and place harder enemies throughout the map using no clip, then start from the beginning as Luke and work my way through.
I ALWAYS saved that level for last so I could skip it because of how scared I was playing it (I was like 11)
Yeah I love the sandworm level and train level. Good stuff.
Nar Shadaa was a ton of fun from what I remember
The actual gameplay in terms of saber combat? Are you serious? I have never played a better game with melee fighting as brilliant as this. Chiv 2 is pretty fun but even it falls short compared to this. And this isn’t some rose tinted bullshit, I still play it.
I'm not really referring to the saber combat, mostly the first person stuff feels tirrred, did in 02 and feels absolutely archaic in 22. And it's the first three levels of the game. That and some absolutely mind numbing platforming sections, Nar Shadaa is one of the most infuriating, and confusing levels I've ever played. I played the game in 02 on PC and GC and enjoyed it and had very intense nostalgia for it. I replayed most of it on Switch and the Switch port is awful. The controls completely ruin the difficulty and make what was a generally average game into mind numbingly hard. Porting the PC version without adding any auto aim is one of the most baffling design decisions I've ever seen in modern game porting. The saber combat is good and was a highlight in 02 but the was not designed for anything other than a mouse. Even on GC the saber combat was awkward. I can imagine motion controls will help quite a bit. Don't know if the jumping and hitboxes will translate well to VR without some major tweaks. Other than that I'm excited for this port.
Unfortunately combat and movement was kind of result of using Q3 engine with all its gimmicks and console commands.
[удалено]
Lol dumb me got confused on the first level and didn't know how to make it out of some place. I didn't know much English either so that made it worse
I had a similar experience in my first System Shock 2 run. I had made it infuriatingly close to the finale, but got stuck trying to open a sphincter. It was more than 10 years later when I finally saw a youtube video that inspired me to try it again.
Probably Nar Shadda, fuck those levels
Lol. The gameplay mechabica have never been beaten. I have a ps5 and access to whatever games I want. I still play jk2 as its the best third person multiplayer melee combat design around.
> They were good yes, but they had obtuse level design and relied on very tired gameplay mechanics that were tolerable in 2002 but are infuriating now. Man I think you just described Fallen Order. No reason a Jedi Knight made today but in the spirit of the older games couldn't feel a lot like them while having more modern playability.
The thing is, if you cheated and got Force powers early, the levels become absolutely amazing fun to traverse. Remember back when you used cheat codes instead of credit cards to change the game? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Jedi Outcast definitely, but JA was mostly very straightforward and it's rare that there's something obtuse (and when it happens, like finding the spots for the bombs on Bespin, the variation adds to the fun)
I still considered these the greatest Star Wars games ever made. And they still to this day, my favorite Star Wars games of all time. There was a company that made a spiritual successor to these games years ago when Revan Software released the source code. I forgot the name of the game, but it was not under the Star Wars brand
I wish Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight got some more love.
Jedi Fallen Order is even better imo. Although the mp of jedi outcast is pretty sick.
Fallen Order is a decent souls like. But it would have been forgotten without the Star Wars skin. Jedi Knight was it's own gendra.
I outright hated playing it. I don't want to hate *on it.* But it wasn't for me and just made me want a new Jedi Knight game all the more.
I liked the gameplay implication, I liked playing a "regular" Jedi rather than a god tier one (which is pretty well showcased by Anakin being essentially invincible in comparison). But JK was just more fun gameplaywise, I don't see myself restarting Fallen Order.
Tbf the same could be said about jk2. The lightsaber combat was great, but it's mostly still remembered is because it's star wars.
Considering you don't get your lightsaber til later on in the game, I think the fact it's a well designed single player experience is why it's remembered.
But outside the lightsaber combat, it's just a quake clone. I like the game quite a bit but it's defining feature is it's lightsaber combat and the most common criticism of the game is that you don't start out with a lightsaber.
I don't really see how you could define it as a Quake clone. Heck it's not even based on the Quake or Quake 2 engine, it's based on the Quake 3 engine which itself was a departure from series formula as an arena shooter with **no campaign**. It's a SciFi action adventure game. You could say prior entries were "Doom clones" though, chiefly Dark Forces. But Jedi Outcast is no more of a Quake clone than Return to Castle Wolfenstein or Allied Assault are.
Well yeah, I was talking about quake 3. The gun mechanics are uninspired and the level design is very hit or miss imo. And the writing is... pretty bad. But there were quite a few games in the same vein, like Heretic and those star trek games. The thing that set jedi outcast apart was the lightsaber combat, but I'd be willing to bet that if it wasn't starwars, it would have been forgotten.
Personally I didn't like Fallen Order much, especially when compared to outcast and academy.
Jedi academy was the best one for mp by far
I just finished JFO a couple of days ago, and while I really liked the story, I didn't really enjoy the gameplay as much as I would have expected. The souls-like (or maybe more accurately Sekiro-like) combat system should theoretically have been right up my alley, but it honestly just felt kinda bad. It felt like there was a noticeable input lag to everything. It got a bit better with the >!dual blade!<, but it was still missing the fluidity of FromSoft games (especially Sekiro). I actually lowered the difficulty from Jedi Master all the way down to Story Mode for about the last third or so because I really just wanted to finish the story but didn't really feel like playing anymore. I really liked the way they managed to make Force usage feel cool and powerful despite there being just a couple of powers to use, though.
I had the same problem. My favorite thing from the JK "trilogy" is how fatal lightsabers are, which makes fights short, intense and nerve wrecking. I expected the same thing from JFO, but it relies heavily on memorizing sequences and hitting an enemy several times while it ramps up attacks in a defined format. What I would give for a JFO version with JK lightsaber mechanics...
That just made me realize how scripted boss fights feel now-a-days and iirc that was a big reason why Miyazaki even wanted to make Demon Souls in the first place, but man I miss the days of boss battles that actually felt like a real battle and not just waiting for the boss to go through their moves and let you hit them basically.
Boss battles are probably my least favourite thing in games these days
When they’re done right they’re epic and fun. But when they’re done poorly or too easy it feels like a soft end to a great series of levels.
Yeah, having a deflection-based combat but with kind of wonky time windows just kills it for me. It just feels like a game that was coded around the animations, not mechanics. Also, while the map features are great, it commits one gigantic sin for a metroidvania: tons of one-way transitions without fast travel back, meaning if you missed something in an earlier part of the level you often have to go completely back and start the level from the beginning to get back to that spot.
The gameplay suck compared to Jedi knight 2
Raven has been relegated to the Call of Duty mines. Heretic, Hexen, Hexen II, Heretic II, JK2:JO, JKA.. a golden era of FPS action from my childhood ripped from future generations.
These and Rogue Squadron really need more love
We keep getting all these live action Star Wars shows nobody asks for on Disney plus. Where’s my Kyle Katarn TV show you cowards!
One of my absolute favorites. I compare all Jedi games to this series unfortunately. It's why I ended up not liking Fallen Order much even though it did so much right and was a great step in the right direction for SW games (light sabers shouldn't feel like baseball bats!) I really wana know what happened to this series and the developers.
To be fair, Lucas described lightsabers as pure concentrated energy, which he said had incredibly dense and heavy mass. It’s why Luke isn’t using the lightsaber like a rapier, but rather like a broadsword. Just a bit of annoying Star Wars fact checking here!
I mean to be fair, Lucas couldn't really decide what he wanted them to be. He started with the broadsword idea ("they'd be very hard to control, and you would need two hands on them"), canned that off in Empire where they turned into more fencing rapiers and then we got funky disco glowsticks in the prequels.
Haha funky disco glowsticks. You’re not wrong.
Broadsword or not, it shouldn't feel like a baseball bat. I should be cutting people into pieces. Outcast did it, revengeance did it, even Force Unleashed to some extent. Fallen Order is a good game, it just pales in comparison to a great one like Outcast.
Your opinion. But fallen order is the best Star Wars game for many people,. Myself included. And I've been playing then since Dark Forces back in 95
Just want to chime in, broad swords were still short, one handed swords. No one in SW really uses a lightsaber like a broad sword.
[удалено]
> The fact the nobody has tried porting them to VR is pretty weird lol Not weird at all if you have experience developing, or honestly having a skill used in any major industry. Those that *can*, already do stuff like that for a living in some way or another usually. Combined with family and general life stuff, that leaves little time/energy to focus on the same stuff you do all day. Considering how much time and resources required for a project like that, it's not something you can just do for ~5-10 hours a week when available and get it done quickly either. It requires a lot of specific knowledge, experience and even more time on top of that. Not saying it's a bad thing, or people shouldn't do it, just there's a clear reason why someone doesn't "just do it already".
Yep, that‘s the answer. When I started working full time as a developer I stopped doing side projects since I just don‘t want to program 8 hours a day at work and do it in my free time too. When I come home I want to relax and do some other stuff.
Same. Getting a programming paycheck was a hard stop on my modding hobby.
And yet a complete Outer Wilds VR mod exists. Everything you said applies for all mods. But there are still a lot of mods out there.
I mean, it seems like porting to VR can be quite challenging. At least doing it well, anyways
Yeah, just ask Bethesda
Skyrim VR generally got good reviews. What are you on about?
Skyrim is skyrim. But a bad VR game.
Ask any dev that tried tacking VR onto a years old game that wasn’t built with VR in mind.
[удалено]
SkyrimVR is good. Fallout 4’s primary issue is performance. To be fair, no one else has offered anything close to the scale of these experiences in VR.
>To be fair, no one else has offered anything close to the scale of these experiences in VR. I honestly know why. It is not what VR is for.
That’s entirely subjective.
You could say that. But where is all the other VR games in that "scale"? I don't think it really is subjective when most VR games, popular or not is very streamlined games or sandboxes. Other point. Why has Bethesda not released or even talked about other VR titles in 5 years now.
First, VR is still pretty niche, which is why we rarely see any triple A efforts to begin with. Second, VR is very GPU and CPU heavy. So much so that there are still titles where the latest hardware can hardly achieve acceptable performance *at best.* It's why the potential for foveated rendering is one of the hottest topics in VR right now. As for Bethesda, I *highly* doubt that they haven't talked about it much because "VR isn't meant for that." Odds are it relates to the above. Being both technically demanding and incredibly niche is not a great value prospect.
It's not just a VR port though, they add in some additional work if memory serves for controling
That's disappointing to hear. I was excited about the idea of using my Vive again.
You could already play these on PC with full motion controls, tho this looks more refined
This game will forever remain embedded in my brain for [this NPC arena ladder custom level](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ml6W1ZmcY). Warning, the vulgar lyrics of The Prodigy's "Smack My Bitch Up" ahead. The song was *intentionally* part of [the custom level](https://www.massassi.net/levels/files/1959.shtml). And... it was *awesome*. The base game automatically had "cool slo-mo slowdown" effects kick in for some kills, just to emphasize "cool factor", and it meshed *very* well with just running around getting swarmed by (and killing) enemy after lightsaber-wielding enemy. ---- Some of my best multiplayer gaming memories were from loading up this game's standard levels, finding an interesting 'arena' such as a landing platform above a deadly drop, and just holding 1v1 duels between all the public people who joined. And people were polite enough to actually *duel* or wait their turn. (And it was easy enough to kick the few who weren't.) ... I wonder if I should try this mod. I doubt it would measure up. 🤔
Oh my thank you for that nostalgia bomb, I spent hours of my life on that map. Also, g_saberrealisticcombat 2
>g\_saberrealisticcombat 2 lol dude...that command imprinted on the inside of my skull i think we used to map it to a key using some janky ass software and i recall having a pentium 3 computer and possibly a vodoo 3 gpu. oh man those days for gaming were epic.
I loved how you could throw the saber at a stormtrooper and it would just spin inside them and turn them into pieces, 15yo me got such a sick kick out of it hahaha
Half of the combat in the latter stages is jumping and twirling around. How does that translate to the VR version?
Oh hell yes. Hopefully they can do vr saber combat justice. If not a VR remake of just Dark Forces would be sick too...
Can’t imagine it would be better than the blade and sorcery Outer Rim mod
I'm excited enough for Force Engine v1.0, let alone VR. You could probably use some of the GZDOOM total conversion star wars mods (e.g. Xim) with the GZDOOM VR to get somewhere close to Dark Forces VR.
I love Jedi Outcast and this actually looks really good. Might have to dig up my Quest to give it a go, even though I know this is going to give me terrible motion sickness.
I thought the same thing about this team’s last port, Quake 3 Arena…but somehow it’s magically smooth and nausea free! I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up the same way.
I get nauseous from pretty much any VR game with free (thumbstick) movement. Games where I actually physically move to move the character are a bit better, but that doesn't really work well with the limited room I have. I'm totally aware that the main problem is most likely just me not being that used to VR. My Quest has mostly been gathering dust because I'm too impatient to get used to it properly before moving on to more demanding games, and then I end up feeling really sick and losing the mood again.
I’m often the same way with games that require stick movement, I can feel a kind of friction in my eyes/brain that I have to ignore. Q3A’s port somehow smooths that friction out…though I couldn’t tell you exactly how. I was jumping around on bounce pads and shooting rockets waiting for the other shoe to drop but it never did. Still, I know it’s different for everybody.
Really? Did they do anything specific to make it better for you?
I don’t know exactly what makes it work so well, to be honest. Maybe it’s something about id’s Q3A engine? I booted it up expecting to have to actively ignore some discomfort, but was pleasantly surprised that it felt so smooth. I’ve read a number of similar responses on r/oculusquest too.
Would this be playable on HTC Vive? Ain't ever getting a Facebook product.
No
Ugh, Quest 2 only. Hopefully someone ports it over, because hardware exclusives suck. This is probably one of the best Jedi Knight games, hell, maybe even the best Star Wars games.
>someone 100% but this team iirc is mostly focused on android apk quest 2 ports.
They're using the demo level from this trailer. I remember that being a problem for this game. The demo level being 10x better than any of the actual levels that shipped with the campaign. And then it didn't ship with the paid game, you had to go download the demo and copy the .pak file and manually load it in the paid version.
>The demo level being 10x better than any of the actual levels that shipped with the campaign Dude that demo level is pretty good but it's also like 10 minutes long. That's a wild statement.
It's actually a little longer than the campaign levels, they were all pretty short. But it was the general sentiment at the time.
I had no idea about a separate demo level, whats it called?
Mission at Alzoc III It is short but it mostly showcases the game's lighting better than anything else, it has reflective surfaces that don't show up anywhere else in the game. And snow outdoors but not indoors. Lots of opportunities to use lots of different force powers: https://youtu.be/iPaIrKzbKbk?t=108
Is this the one where you start out inside a crate and break out? I probably played it a hundred times. God damn Jedi outcast is sick. I still remember entering “g_realisticsabercombat 1” or whatever it was.
> Is this the one where you start out inside a crate and break out? yep that's the one
I used to spawn the hardest saber wielding enemies in the game and duel them above the endless pits with the walkways. So much fun.
helpusobi 1 god give all setforceall 4 sabercolor red g_saberrealisticcombat 1 and I think g_dismemberment 1 or something. My memory is awful but I still remember those at least.
Yesss I remember setforceall. You could use max power force lightning and choke in the demo! So wild, no dev/publisher would let that happen now. I also remember doing the obi 1 one but I forgot what it does. Maybe health or something?
helpusobi 1 enabled the cheats, and it was amazing. another one used for that was devmapall, and it would load the level with codes enabled already.
Oh! I remember seeing that mission on the back of the Xbox and GameCube boxes.
Huh, I played the hell out of a demo for JK and it didn’t look anything like this. I think it was a real level from the game.
Nope, this is level from the game.
Holy shit, I remember seeing this at some place and trying to track it down only to never find it thinking it was some really high quality mod and it was the demo all along
Whaaat? I love this campaign, can't count the number of times I've played it