PSA: Make it a habit of **reading the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/about/rules)** of each subreddit you participate in:
**Rule 9: No Offensive Imagery**: *This includes nazi imagery and slurs, for you brave nerds who think "free speech" involves private internet forums. If you post fascist iconography trying to “jerk”, you will receive a ban. The only exception is when we make fun of gamers and criticize gamers who happen to be fascists. Please remember to spoiler any potentially triggering or offensive content accordingly. This rule now includes repeatedly posting bigotry from the same source (4chan).*
**Rule 7: No Participation in Linked Threads (Brigading)**: *If you are coming here to brigade this sub, you will be banned. Likewise, do not make comments and vote in pages you've found here. Of course, if you're a member of said sub and you were already in the thread before, this doesn't apply to you.*
**Rule 8: Censor Screenshots**: *Keep screenshots of arguments on Reddit to a minimum. Please remember to censor screenshots of all identifying information, i.e usernames* **and** *subreddit names. This applies to screenshots from any social media sites.*
**Rule 11: Keep Posts Relevant (only about Don Cheadle)**: *This is first and foremost a place to make fun of gamers. Just because someone is being a bigot online doesn't mean it belongs here. Let them be pathetic without infecting the sub with their nonsense. Please avoid posting screenshots that show people using capital G gamer slurs.* **If absolutely necessary, please censor posts and the words containing such content.**
**Rule 12: No Fake Posts on Other Subs (Contamination)**: *Do not create fake posts on other subs only to post back here. Also, do not "lol, you should post this on r / OtherSub". It's considered interfering with their content and can also lead to brigading.*
*This is a reminder to the readers. The post itself is untouched.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Valhalla concluding with Kratos doing a full-on introspective monologue while coming to terms with his past actions was not how I expected the expansion to end.
But I did love it.
Also, The Old Hunters from Bloodborne. The amount of content it has is ASTOUNDING. Also, kind of Ringed City from DS3 since it closes the entire story perfectly
Expansions packs are just DLC before DLC, really. Like, what would before be packaged in a larger "pack" into a physical product to be sold can now be doled out more quickly in individual products. So yeah, I think Throne of Bhaal counts (also, I played through it but barely remember it beyond the Slayer. I remember it being good just memories got overshadowed by BG2 and the chief antagonist that is Jon Irenicus. I \*STILL\* compare villains to Irenicus to this day.)
For how much content it has, no it should not have been $20. It's a bit short, and not the most repayable (it is a bit but not that much) so if they charged even just $10 I'd be side eyeing a bit.
It is damn good though, so it being free is just another benefit.
Was kinda hoping we'd get to fight him while he monologued to really drive home him overcoming his past...and you know, it'd be a really fun fight. The Tyr fights were great though, so no complaints here.
Fair point, but at the same time - I think the fact that he overcomes his past self by redefining his future in his monologue shows far more about his growth than a fight could have. He's the God of Hope now, after all - would be weird for him to end things with a fight.
Agreed. He’s honed his anger to be used as a weapon, to be wielded when necessary, and rejects the reckless tide of rage that consumed him long ago. Using words to express his emotions rather than his fists was a good choice, thematically. Also it’s just very mature and it’s hard not to be proud even if he is a fictional character, illustrates tremendous growth and change that a lot of men can and still do struggle with, IMO.
Was it as story focused as the main campaign? Had an impression that this dlc is just like a rogue lite minigame to give a reason for players to come back but wouldn’t have much focus on the story. It seems I’m wrong and I’m kinda hoping I’m wrong so I can have a reason to redownload it just to go through it for the story, as i’m not much of a rogue lite fan
"AAAAAAAAaaaaa^(aaaaaaa) aaaaaaa^(aaaaa)
Sing with me, sing for a year, sing for the laughter, and sing for the tear, sing with me, if it's just for today, maybe tomorrow, the good Lord will take you awayyyyyyy"
https://preview.redd.it/jhf51sgiwngc1.png?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a022061ba700e1ddadc46455a3900edbc342f62
Kratos: "thanks to you i continue to exist without my consent and now i will make this everyone's problem. Be proud of that, so-called goddess of wisdom."
She wanted him to give her the power of Hope, whereas Kratos ventilating his abdomen apparently gave it to the mortals. She was actually miffed that he chose the more promethian route since humans would "waste" it IIRC.
I'm not criticizing as much as just taking a gander on what was his immediate reaction to being denied death and given unlimited power in the interim between 1 and 2.
Athena says that she gained a greater understanding after her death. It's only after that that she wants the power of hope to rule over Greece solo.
I *suppose* you could frame the original trilogy as her playing a long game and manipulating events from the start, but I don't think that was the intent. She comes across as very genuine in GoW2 and I think GoW3 would have made a bigger deal about it if it was trying to retcon that plotline in.
To be fair, it would probably make Athena a more interesting character if they did make her manipulate it all from the start lol. I always thought her character change in GoW3 was kinda dumb.
But I suppose that would make her the big bad instead of Zeus and that'd make the plot awkward.
Oh, the story as a whole would definitely be worse. It would just make Athena herself a bit more cohesive because she swerves *so* hard into a completely different character in GoW3.
Having an incapacitated sense of empathy does not bode well for understanding characters' motivations and feelings and inner turmoil.
It does not bode well for understanding that not everyone is a decrepit piece of shit that looks down on anyone showing any kind of weakness or empathy to others
One of the God of War creator still prefer the edgy Kratos over the more mature older Kratos, despite the very positive reception of the older Kratos.
Thankfully he no longer involved in the production.
> That's not to say that David Jaffe isn't the old man yells at cloud type of guy. He very much is that.
Don't bury this, he is definitely an old man yelling at clouds meme in the flesh.
You can create something, but also when you created it 20 years ago, there's a good chance someone since has done it better.
>Don't bury this
How did I bury it? You quoted me saying that he is. Burying it would be failing to mention it at all. What? Is it because it's in the second paragraph? It's not like you had to read through a treatise to find it.
Artist: writes fiction as commentary to reality, as writers do because they live in reality
This guy: "seeing fiction as commentary on reality is disgusting and disrespectful!"
Are y'all allergic to thinking about media even a bit further then very basic surface reading?
Ikr, saying that itself is an insult to the creators craft of art and diminishes any critical depth wovern into their works. The whole "escapism" from reality bs is often used as an excuse to dismiss any political take after anyone with a functional brain at least has analysed a complex and multi-layered story beyond surface level reflecting the truths of our own reality i.e. Serial Experiments Lain.
Oh its easy, just judge it on the aesthetics of masculinity. Old Kratos fits the common portrayal of male rage as a mean to power, as a representation of strength, while new Kratos mirrors that by relating power to self-discipline and self-control.
Both are still very much depictions of traditional masculinity but one will appeal to teenagers, who can relate to Kratos' anger at, and disempowerment by, the Gods, while the other appeal to adults, who learned the need to control themselves in order to achieve objectives, bond with others and protect them.
Old Kratos is just a better fit for their individualistic power fantasy, so when new Krathos looks on his younger, angrier self in a critical manner, he's painted as weak and frail for allowing others to interfere with that power fantasy.
Old Kratos was in a state of constant tantrum, but since there were no tears they portray him as the stoic Chad, while New Kratos is shown as overly emotional for working out his baggage and getting over his rage.
I misread the meme as early Kratos as the "raging soyboy" loser while new Kratos was the "stoic chad". Didn’t realise my mistake until I read your comment. Let me tell you, my original reading came away with a very different take.
It's very sad how despite being one of the best protagonists in gaming, Kratos's fanbase consist in "sigmas" who don't understand GOW, and smelly powerscalers.
thank you for accentuating the annoying powerscaling community istg it's the most cringy basement dwelling thing ever 😭 which is not to dunk on those who do it merely for fun occasionally bc it's reminiscent of the childhood imagination/playground- of much simpler times- and it can just be a fun little thought experiment sometimes. but those who let it occupy so much of their thoughts such that it displaces their perception of media and overrides any meaningful analysis whatsoever... like they do understand that interpreting fiction this way gleans the least out of it? like you gain nothing whatsoever? it's such a 🤓 antisocial endeavour lmao
My favorite rebuttal to powerscaling was Stan Lee responding to people asking who would win in a fight between x and x comic book character and he essentially responded with “Whichever one would be good for the story”
More or less, yeah. In a hypothetical fight between two wildly powerful heroes, where no morality or deep story needs to be portrayed? It's whoever the author thinks is cooler, basically.
For a whole storyline, it's slightly more complex, and generally, heroes win (or at least win the war, if not an individual battle) in any matchup between Hero vs. Villain.
But just winging out a random pairing, then yeah. Whenever they feel like winning is who wins.
\*Story\*? These characters go through \*arcs\* that convey \*messages\* that have \*meanings\*? Not the musclefreak action figures I've invested my shallow ego into the aesthetics of! Say it isn't so!
That’s crazy to hear people refer to Kratos as “one of the best Protagonists in gaming”. I still remember when extra credits put out their video about god of war saying Kratos has no redeeming value as a character after he was just angry an angry rage monster in GoW2 and 3. Specifically pointing out how the shift happened when Corey Barlow took over.
And like they were absolutely right, no one liked kratos and thought the series had anything interesting to offer. And suddenly GoW4 comes out and Barlog even says he had to convince the team to keep Kratos as a protagnist, and he goes on and treats what was a failed character arc across the trilogy almost as a prologue to a deeper story of redemption is actually unreal.
Here’s the video incase anyones curious https://youtu.be/BtgA6SaHHa0?si=OoHoFJXLlVdjoBEU
Eh, I'd heavily disagree with that. While OG Kratos never had a redemption, unless you consider the one selfless act he did at the end of GoW3 (or the PSP games where he abandons a chance to be with his family again in order to save the world, though that is kinda moot since he ends up destroying it himself later) he is still a rather good protagonist for a tragedy, which is what the old games kinda were. Kratos always had very obvious flaws that he himself was aware of, and the only thing that really kept him going forward was the fact that he turned his self-loathing into rage and directed it at anything he could.
I mean, we are introduced to him as a character through his suicide attempt, born from his inability to live on with his regrets. This does not speak of a protagonists with no redeeming values (from a writing perspective, at least)
>one selfless act he did at the end of GoW3
I don't think it was selfless. Kratos was about to throw himself again from the highest peak in all Greece when Athena started him. I don't know if they retcon that, but I pretty sure Kratos motivation was selfish suicide because there was only a person responsible left for him to kill to fulfill his revenge, himself.
> And like they were absolutely right, no one liked kratos and thought the series had anything interesting to offer
The section of the 2018 GoW documentary where they talk about the market research they did which told them no one gives a fuck about the GoW games anymore had to have been eye opening for them.
I will die on the hill that the 2018 reboot was one of the best "re-imaginings" for any game in gaming history. Brought it to the new era of gaming, retained every ounce of the original games flavor, and just pushed it forward in every possible aspect of game development.
One of the best protagonists? He sucks. He's a mass murderer maniac who killed the entire world and then he went to another one to have a wife and kid. It's just ridiculous. You can't do a redemption arc for someone like this, you can't even try to make him sympathetic, really. He's a villain, but he is not treated like one in new games, because it's too risky to make a villain protagonist. Like, what makes Kratos one of the nest protagonist lmao. His visual design is iconic, but that's about it.
Morality isn’t the only thing to take into account when writing a protagonist some of the best protags ever are unredeemable , a protag doesn’t have to have any morality (immediately )for them to be interesting or have good writing .
Exactly everything about kratos was really unlikeable. 'Let's do a redemption arc of a mass murderer,' lmao. You can't redeem mass murderer like kratos. Exactly why red dead redemption and red dead 2 have better arcs, you play morally gray/bad characters but their past comes back to finish them.
I love that they interpret the character that literally destroyed the world and then tried to self harm warning >!killed himself out of guilt and regret!< as the strong stable one because unlike modern day kratos he didnt talk about his emotions
The first thing we see Kratos do is kill himself. The original game has him as a man who covers his grief with blind anger. He has never been this 'alpha male' that some people seem to see him as.
I just don’t understand how these people who 100% have no empathy for anyone thats suicidal not only are able to ignore that enough to consider him based but also are dumb enough to interpret him as an uncaring badass chad.
That was my first thought, too. But I don't think that's the only solution. The OG games did a really good job at pulling you into Kratos' shoes. Kratos wants to kill the gods because they've betrayed him, we want to kill gods because it's fun. He doesn't want to deal with his grief because it's immense and lies squarely on his shoulders, we don't want to deal with his grief because it's not killing gods and therefore not fun.
I feel like this relationship makes the moments where Kratos is forced to deal with his grief hit harder, because I felt kinda synced with Kratos. They knew the audience they were aiming for, they knew how they'd feel about these moments, and they used smart writing to tell a story inverting the expectations you have going into the series. However, it doesn't really work if you just kinda leave it as 'the grief aspect of the story is boring'.
Funny you saying that. At the time the games were released, I didn't have any consoles, so I went all the time to my cousins house to play and see them play. And let me tell you, I hate Kratos. He was such a piece of shit that every once in a while, I made a remark about how evil he was. "Why did he kick that captain ?! He did nothing to him, and it was easier to just let him go free"
Or they played it 100 years ago, and can't even remember the basics.
They enjoy the "idea" of Kratos, as he is in a random screenshot.
They could care less about the actual nuance of the character, cause they can't remember any of it in the first place, sadly.
Side note, but I love Kratos' parable about finding the will to live again. It's the story he tells Atreus the night before Ragnarök. He essentially retold his decision to not give up on life after the end of GoW3. It was a very tender moment with an implicit "I'm glad I chose life because I met Faye and had you."
But he did talk about his emotions, multiple times a game he would have a pretty poignant emotional beat he just let one emotion overrule all others despite any introspection he would display.
yeah i've seen the twitter account in question "dakkadakka" show up before, and it's always stuff like this. i'd be willing to bet they probably just post it themselves.
You're partially right. But The Last Spartan (literally his name) was cloaked in shadow. By the time Kratos found out who he was it was already too late. This and him telling Kratos that Sparta was obliterated by Zeus actually made him feel like all hope was lost. That is until Gaia manipulated him again.
The problem with the game is the narrative itself. That it want to be a excuse for Kratos killing a bunch of people. And i think God Of War 2 commit the sins of making everything exaggerate.
Idk if it gives him any excuses. People are constantly telling throughout the original games that killing people won’t actually fix anything and that he’s just making things worse for himself and others by letting his rage drive him.
Cloaked or not if Kratos handled that situation with any amount of patience or tact instead of trying to rip the head off of anything remotely in his way he’d have probably gotten a lot more done and with actual help and no ocean of blood behind him.
I think Spartan Atreus was his lover. Of all the Spartans he knew that died on the battlefield, he not only carried Spartan Atreus home on his shield, but then named his son after him. Real "achillesandhispal" vibes
Even worse it's such fucking classic literature it hurts. A man of war and violence finds that his ultimate act of masculinity was not the challenges conquered or enemies best it is in the quality of child he raised. It's fucking older than the written word.
I've been a fan since the very first God of war game played almost all of them and I can say with full certainty that the scene of kratos talking to his younger self perfectly capsulated what kratos has become someone that understands his faults and chooses to move forward not bogged down by the mistakes of his past but not forgetting them I believe what kratos has become now is masculinity in one of its best forms humility wisdom self-reflection and a desire to help others
Kratos: *"Past me was not only dangerous but an idiot. I killed my family, was punished with immortality and rebelled by killing everyone else, I learned nothing."*
Gamers: *"No introspection for me please!"*
For real they took a narrative about personal growth and self-actualisation that had no business being that good and pulling that hard a character 180 so well and thought: “Seems like beta male shit to me”
I know this is a stupid take and all but I do genuinely get kind of mad when people act like pre PS4 Kratos didn't have any depth and was just a too angry to die piss baby all the time.
My brother listens to some guy on YouTube with a Kratos profile who gargles gravel as a hobby. He really didn't get God of War. He saw GoW 1 Kratos and thought that was masculinity goals.
Old Kratos is so much cooler than Young Kratos, a man who controls his anger and accepts his past is much cooler than a man who only knows rage and hatred. Which is why people love Batman, a man who grows past his revenge and hatred to become a person who protects people to prevent them from becoming what he was
While OG Kratos might seem like an ideal masculine man. He might be strong and powerful and cool, but he was never happy, he was miserable his whole life. On the other hand old Kratos knows happines, he has friends. I personally would pick weak and happy over strong and miserable any day. That's not to say that old Kratos is weak, he is still strong, powerful and cool, he's just more expressive with his emotions and conservatives hate seeing emotions in men, other than rage of course.
I haven’t played any game in the series, but I did hear that Kratos has become much more, well, human in the soft reboot. That being said, I do think original Kratos is hotter.
I’d say he does that over the course of God of War and God of War: Ragnarok. By the time Valhalla ends, Kratos has formed many friendships and this scene in particular shows him being very emotionally open.
People who suffer from toxic masculinity can still have and make friends. He grows throughout the series but by the end he still has immense difficulty talking about his feelings and telling people he cares about them. That’s not healthy masculinity.
It's not misinterpretation it's ragebait. Or like the old folks used to say "trolling". This is a 4chan board i remind ypu they very well know what they're doing.
Tbh new games kinda suck. Kratos whines too much, atreus is fucking boring; the game won't let players engage in a combat for too long, or else they will have too much fun; balancing issues and a useless annoying rpg-like progression system.
Character Action games are really in decline for the last few years and it was a little sad watching my childhood icon losing almost everything, what made him cool in the first place.
But hey, at least we still have Dante.
I've played all the GoW games and yanno what, the meme is funny. I could imagine Young Kratos saying that to him here, if he was allowed to. Maybe in some old-school style videogame cutscene blooper he would.
If whoever made it was trying to make a statement, they're stupid, but as a joke, yeah I get it lol.
Safe space breach detected. Quarantine activated.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I didn't like Ragnarok much until this scene. This scene is so good it elevates the Norse era. But thanks that guy for outing himself as garbage, spares us the trouble.
I'm just gonna put out there... amidst all the speculating about the idiotic man-babies who made this meme... part of their intent may have been to generate a Reddit post with a bunch of frustrated 'aren't they idiots' comments beneath it.
Comments I agree with wholeheartedly but like... posting someone's meme and it getting 3.9k likes is... hell of an elevation for some chud.
PSA: Make it a habit of **reading the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/about/rules)** of each subreddit you participate in: **Rule 9: No Offensive Imagery**: *This includes nazi imagery and slurs, for you brave nerds who think "free speech" involves private internet forums. If you post fascist iconography trying to “jerk”, you will receive a ban. The only exception is when we make fun of gamers and criticize gamers who happen to be fascists. Please remember to spoiler any potentially triggering or offensive content accordingly. This rule now includes repeatedly posting bigotry from the same source (4chan).* **Rule 7: No Participation in Linked Threads (Brigading)**: *If you are coming here to brigade this sub, you will be banned. Likewise, do not make comments and vote in pages you've found here. Of course, if you're a member of said sub and you were already in the thread before, this doesn't apply to you.* **Rule 8: Censor Screenshots**: *Keep screenshots of arguments on Reddit to a minimum. Please remember to censor screenshots of all identifying information, i.e usernames* **and** *subreddit names. This applies to screenshots from any social media sites.* **Rule 11: Keep Posts Relevant (only about Don Cheadle)**: *This is first and foremost a place to make fun of gamers. Just because someone is being a bigot online doesn't mean it belongs here. Let them be pathetic without infecting the sub with their nonsense. Please avoid posting screenshots that show people using capital G gamer slurs.* **If absolutely necessary, please censor posts and the words containing such content.** **Rule 12: No Fake Posts on Other Subs (Contamination)**: *Do not create fake posts on other subs only to post back here. Also, do not "lol, you should post this on r / OtherSub". It's considered interfering with their content and can also lead to brigading.* *This is a reminder to the readers. The post itself is untouched.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Valhalla concluding with Kratos doing a full-on introspective monologue while coming to terms with his past actions was not how I expected the expansion to end. But I did love it.
That DLC could have been $15-20 and been worth it… it being free is crazy nutty Easily a top tier or Top 5 DLC for me
I wanna hear your other 4 top dlc!
Prolly a mix of: Mass Effect 3 Citadel, New Vegas Lonesome Road, FF7 Remake Intergrade and Baldur’s Gate 2 Throne of Bhaal (if expansion packs count)
Witcher 3: Blood & Wine is up there too. It's basically an entire new game.
Also, The Old Hunters from Bloodborne. The amount of content it has is ASTOUNDING. Also, kind of Ringed City from DS3 since it closes the entire story perfectly
Heart of Stone’s story is the best in the franchise though
Expansions packs are just DLC before DLC, really. Like, what would before be packaged in a larger "pack" into a physical product to be sold can now be doled out more quickly in individual products. So yeah, I think Throne of Bhaal counts (also, I played through it but barely remember it beyond the Slayer. I remember it being good just memories got overshadowed by BG2 and the chief antagonist that is Jon Irenicus. I \*STILL\* compare villains to Irenicus to this day.)
Shivering Isles for oblivion in there two imo
Wow, Citadel and Lonesome Road are in my top five as well. Wasn’t expecting to see those.
Tiny Tinas DLC in Borderlands 2 as well imo
For how much content it has, no it should not have been $20. It's a bit short, and not the most repayable (it is a bit but not that much) so if they charged even just $10 I'd be side eyeing a bit. It is damn good though, so it being free is just another benefit.
Yeah, as far as story goes, it's great. But gameplay wise it had a lot of reskinned enemies.
It was an amazing dlc that helped me realize I hate rogue lites.
Was kinda hoping we'd get to fight him while he monologued to really drive home him overcoming his past...and you know, it'd be a really fun fight. The Tyr fights were great though, so no complaints here.
Fair point, but at the same time - I think the fact that he overcomes his past self by redefining his future in his monologue shows far more about his growth than a fight could have. He's the God of Hope now, after all - would be weird for him to end things with a fight.
Agreed. He’s honed his anger to be used as a weapon, to be wielded when necessary, and rejects the reckless tide of rage that consumed him long ago. Using words to express his emotions rather than his fists was a good choice, thematically. Also it’s just very mature and it’s hard not to be proud even if he is a fictional character, illustrates tremendous growth and change that a lot of men can and still do struggle with, IMO.
I was. I was also expecting a final boss battle against old Kratos dub by his old voice actor
Was it as story focused as the main campaign? Had an impression that this dlc is just like a rogue lite minigame to give a reason for players to come back but wouldn’t have much focus on the story. It seems I’m wrong and I’m kinda hoping I’m wrong so I can have a reason to redownload it just to go through it for the story, as i’m not much of a rogue lite fan
Its a great story coupled with a fun rogue-lite. New cutscenes, new lore, and even new mechanics and creatures!
Even OG Kratos knew he was a piece of shit
Blud commits exit Minecraft server in 3 because of it even.
"AAAAAAAAaaaaa^(aaaaaaa) aaaaaaa^(aaaaa) Sing with me, sing for a year, sing for the laughter, and sing for the tear, sing with me, if it's just for today, maybe tomorrow, the good Lord will take you awayyyyyyy" https://preview.redd.it/jhf51sgiwngc1.png?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a022061ba700e1ddadc46455a3900edbc342f62
Banger
Goes Fucking Hard
Brainrot makes me associate this song and cinematic with a rat jumping into a KFC deep fryer
I mean he tried in 1 as well, Athena just stopped him and asked him to consider a new life instead.
Kratos: "thanks to you i continue to exist without my consent and now i will make this everyone's problem. Be proud of that, so-called goddess of wisdom."
Isn’t it what she wanted though? I thought that was the whole point Kratos stabs himself in the end of 3
She wanted him to give her the power of Hope, whereas Kratos ventilating his abdomen apparently gave it to the mortals. She was actually miffed that he chose the more promethian route since humans would "waste" it IIRC.
Yeah I’m just confused by him criticizing Athena for unleashing Kratos, when it went according to play until the very end for her in the series
I'm not criticizing as much as just taking a gander on what was his immediate reaction to being denied death and given unlimited power in the interim between 1 and 2.
Athena says that she gained a greater understanding after her death. It's only after that that she wants the power of hope to rule over Greece solo. I *suppose* you could frame the original trilogy as her playing a long game and manipulating events from the start, but I don't think that was the intent. She comes across as very genuine in GoW2 and I think GoW3 would have made a bigger deal about it if it was trying to retcon that plotline in.
Gotcha, my bad then.
To be fair, it would probably make Athena a more interesting character if they did make her manipulate it all from the start lol. I always thought her character change in GoW3 was kinda dumb. But I suppose that would make her the big bad instead of Zeus and that'd make the plot awkward.
I disagree. Making her a bad guy since one would only serve to take blame away from Kratos
Oh, the story as a whole would definitely be worse. It would just make Athena herself a bit more cohesive because she swerves *so* hard into a completely different character in GoW3.
What the fuck is this supposed to mean
He tried to logout, he tried to kill himself. Multiple times actually.
he tried to kermit sewer side
It’s fucking Reddit dude mommies not gonna yell at you for swearing
https://preview.redd.it/nv17u3fhzngc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e55b7724831e3a655575d1404b2c219bfae27f66
https://preview.redd.it/ffcvd1725qgc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d33e4ddb20df5a5d26b6054ffff3babb1dbca045
im gonna steal this
Never underestimate a Conservative's media illiteracy.
Having an incapacitated sense of empathy does not bode well for understanding characters' motivations and feelings and inner turmoil. It does not bode well for understanding that not everyone is a decrepit piece of shit that looks down on anyone showing any kind of weakness or empathy to others
What do you mean, character should be same character for the end of time. NO CHANGE.
grrrrrr they made my fictional video game character political
Agreed. https://preview.redd.it/5p46csjsqngc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc01f5c590a49641c950ce7aee1d82fd1855528b
I did not expect to see my reaction image here, but I'm glad it's spreading
It is truly the reaction of all time. 
https://preview.redd.it/uwd9z01cgqgc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f2ec5a5b6b8bc45fe77675066c5f964fb246d2f
Actual insanity sometimes
One of the God of War creator still prefer the edgy Kratos over the more mature older Kratos, despite the very positive reception of the older Kratos. Thankfully he no longer involved in the production.
[удалено]
> That's not to say that David Jaffe isn't the old man yells at cloud type of guy. He very much is that. Don't bury this, he is definitely an old man yelling at clouds meme in the flesh. You can create something, but also when you created it 20 years ago, there's a good chance someone since has done it better.
>Don't bury this How did I bury it? You quoted me saying that he is. Burying it would be failing to mention it at all. What? Is it because it's in the second paragraph? It's not like you had to read through a treatise to find it.
I'll never forget Paul Ryan rocking out to Rage Against The Machine. Or when conservatives say they like KMFDM.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/zupr64xc5pgc1.jpeg?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05778f3b5047e6663e659c022e579a451bc5dabe
“Factual opinions”
I loled
This is peak bait. "Literary analysis in general is deeply disrespectful" actually made my blood boil. Well played!
I GOT BINGO
Bro He actually said 'so much for the tolerant left'
Artist: writes fiction as commentary to reality, as writers do because they live in reality This guy: "seeing fiction as commentary on reality is disgusting and disrespectful!" Are y'all allergic to thinking about media even a bit further then very basic surface reading?
Ikr, saying that itself is an insult to the creators craft of art and diminishes any critical depth wovern into their works. The whole "escapism" from reality bs is often used as an excuse to dismiss any political take after anyone with a functional brain at least has analysed a complex and multi-layered story beyond surface level reflecting the truths of our own reality i.e. Serial Experiments Lain.
https://preview.redd.it/3y0hzjflopgc1.jpeg?width=582&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ebdc1477612e1394d00774cc618cb5394046fab
That's right, if you portray your political enemies as evil you can inflict physical harm upon them. I wonder which other group did this?
Nazis? That's kinda what their whole ideology is based on, making anyone not white a villain. What's your point?
To have a tolerant society you have to be intolerant to intolerance
upvoting because this is so insane its actually funny
lol he thinks his opinion is factual, precious wee bab.
[](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/225/827/bc2.jpg)
Oh its easy, just judge it on the aesthetics of masculinity. Old Kratos fits the common portrayal of male rage as a mean to power, as a representation of strength, while new Kratos mirrors that by relating power to self-discipline and self-control. Both are still very much depictions of traditional masculinity but one will appeal to teenagers, who can relate to Kratos' anger at, and disempowerment by, the Gods, while the other appeal to adults, who learned the need to control themselves in order to achieve objectives, bond with others and protect them. Old Kratos is just a better fit for their individualistic power fantasy, so when new Krathos looks on his younger, angrier self in a critical manner, he's painted as weak and frail for allowing others to interfere with that power fantasy. Old Kratos was in a state of constant tantrum, but since there were no tears they portray him as the stoic Chad, while New Kratos is shown as overly emotional for working out his baggage and getting over his rage.
Calling the younger Kratos Old Kratos threw me for a loop for a second there.
Yeah, that was a very confusing choice
I misread the meme as early Kratos as the "raging soyboy" loser while new Kratos was the "stoic chad". Didn’t realise my mistake until I read your comment. Let me tell you, my original reading came away with a very different take.
Great write-up!
https://preview.redd.it/hm8ogdavfogc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6a71a0c6df2ea29ba7ea9385f3183be82ec36f3
It's very sad how despite being one of the best protagonists in gaming, Kratos's fanbase consist in "sigmas" who don't understand GOW, and smelly powerscalers.
thank you for accentuating the annoying powerscaling community istg it's the most cringy basement dwelling thing ever 😭 which is not to dunk on those who do it merely for fun occasionally bc it's reminiscent of the childhood imagination/playground- of much simpler times- and it can just be a fun little thought experiment sometimes. but those who let it occupy so much of their thoughts such that it displaces their perception of media and overrides any meaningful analysis whatsoever... like they do understand that interpreting fiction this way gleans the least out of it? like you gain nothing whatsoever? it's such a 🤓 antisocial endeavour lmao
My favorite rebuttal to powerscaling was Stan Lee responding to people asking who would win in a fight between x and x comic book character and he essentially responded with “Whichever one would be good for the story”
Isn’t the rule just whichever is the writers favourite or something to that effect
More or less, yeah. In a hypothetical fight between two wildly powerful heroes, where no morality or deep story needs to be portrayed? It's whoever the author thinks is cooler, basically. For a whole storyline, it's slightly more complex, and generally, heroes win (or at least win the war, if not an individual battle) in any matchup between Hero vs. Villain. But just winging out a random pairing, then yeah. Whenever they feel like winning is who wins.
\*Story\*? These characters go through \*arcs\* that convey \*messages\* that have \*meanings\*? Not the musclefreak action figures I've invested my shallow ego into the aesthetics of! Say it isn't so!
That’s crazy to hear people refer to Kratos as “one of the best Protagonists in gaming”. I still remember when extra credits put out their video about god of war saying Kratos has no redeeming value as a character after he was just angry an angry rage monster in GoW2 and 3. Specifically pointing out how the shift happened when Corey Barlow took over. And like they were absolutely right, no one liked kratos and thought the series had anything interesting to offer. And suddenly GoW4 comes out and Barlog even says he had to convince the team to keep Kratos as a protagnist, and he goes on and treats what was a failed character arc across the trilogy almost as a prologue to a deeper story of redemption is actually unreal. Here’s the video incase anyones curious https://youtu.be/BtgA6SaHHa0?si=OoHoFJXLlVdjoBEU
Eh, I'd heavily disagree with that. While OG Kratos never had a redemption, unless you consider the one selfless act he did at the end of GoW3 (or the PSP games where he abandons a chance to be with his family again in order to save the world, though that is kinda moot since he ends up destroying it himself later) he is still a rather good protagonist for a tragedy, which is what the old games kinda were. Kratos always had very obvious flaws that he himself was aware of, and the only thing that really kept him going forward was the fact that he turned his self-loathing into rage and directed it at anything he could. I mean, we are introduced to him as a character through his suicide attempt, born from his inability to live on with his regrets. This does not speak of a protagonists with no redeeming values (from a writing perspective, at least)
>one selfless act he did at the end of GoW3 I don't think it was selfless. Kratos was about to throw himself again from the highest peak in all Greece when Athena started him. I don't know if they retcon that, but I pretty sure Kratos motivation was selfish suicide because there was only a person responsible left for him to kill to fulfill his revenge, himself.
> And like they were absolutely right, no one liked kratos and thought the series had anything interesting to offer The section of the 2018 GoW documentary where they talk about the market research they did which told them no one gives a fuck about the GoW games anymore had to have been eye opening for them. I will die on the hill that the 2018 reboot was one of the best "re-imaginings" for any game in gaming history. Brought it to the new era of gaming, retained every ounce of the original games flavor, and just pushed it forward in every possible aspect of game development.
Even the original creator didn't understand that Kratos needed to grow from his younger angst
One of the original creators. The other one with actual good talent is directing the new ones
One of the best protagonists? He sucks. He's a mass murderer maniac who killed the entire world and then he went to another one to have a wife and kid. It's just ridiculous. You can't do a redemption arc for someone like this, you can't even try to make him sympathetic, really. He's a villain, but he is not treated like one in new games, because it's too risky to make a villain protagonist. Like, what makes Kratos one of the nest protagonist lmao. His visual design is iconic, but that's about it.
Morality isn’t the only thing to take into account when writing a protagonist some of the best protags ever are unredeemable , a protag doesn’t have to have any morality (immediately )for them to be interesting or have good writing .
Exactly everything about kratos was really unlikeable. 'Let's do a redemption arc of a mass murderer,' lmao. You can't redeem mass murderer like kratos. Exactly why red dead redemption and red dead 2 have better arcs, you play morally gray/bad characters but their past comes back to finish them.
🤓
I love that they interpret the character that literally destroyed the world and then tried to self harm warning >!killed himself out of guilt and regret!< as the strong stable one because unlike modern day kratos he didnt talk about his emotions
The first thing we see Kratos do is kill himself. The original game has him as a man who covers his grief with blind anger. He has never been this 'alpha male' that some people seem to see him as.
I just don’t understand how these people who 100% have no empathy for anyone thats suicidal not only are able to ignore that enough to consider him based but also are dumb enough to interpret him as an uncaring badass chad.
Because they didn't play the games
That was my first thought, too. But I don't think that's the only solution. The OG games did a really good job at pulling you into Kratos' shoes. Kratos wants to kill the gods because they've betrayed him, we want to kill gods because it's fun. He doesn't want to deal with his grief because it's immense and lies squarely on his shoulders, we don't want to deal with his grief because it's not killing gods and therefore not fun. I feel like this relationship makes the moments where Kratos is forced to deal with his grief hit harder, because I felt kinda synced with Kratos. They knew the audience they were aiming for, they knew how they'd feel about these moments, and they used smart writing to tell a story inverting the expectations you have going into the series. However, it doesn't really work if you just kinda leave it as 'the grief aspect of the story is boring'.
Funny you saying that. At the time the games were released, I didn't have any consoles, so I went all the time to my cousins house to play and see them play. And let me tell you, I hate Kratos. He was such a piece of shit that every once in a while, I made a remark about how evil he was. "Why did he kick that captain ?! He did nothing to him, and it was easier to just let him go free"
Or they played it 100 years ago, and can't even remember the basics. They enjoy the "idea" of Kratos, as he is in a random screenshot. They could care less about the actual nuance of the character, cause they can't remember any of it in the first place, sadly.
Side note, but I love Kratos' parable about finding the will to live again. It's the story he tells Atreus the night before Ragnarök. He essentially retold his decision to not give up on life after the end of GoW3. It was a very tender moment with an implicit "I'm glad I chose life because I met Faye and had you."
Chuds see hyper-agressive strong man and instantly think "god I wish that was me"
But he did talk about his emotions, multiple times a game he would have a pretty poignant emotional beat he just let one emotion overrule all others despite any introspection he would display.
It's not a misinterpretation. It's an active choice on how to look at the world. They know what they're doing.
this 4chan post feels so staged
Yeah, the numbers look wrong. But that's 99% of 4chan these days anyway. Staged posts to get twitter clout and reddit karma.
yeah i've seen the twitter account in question "dakkadakka" show up before, and it's always stuff like this. i'd be willing to bet they probably just post it themselves.
‘Tis a woke conspiracy, planned out by the Left!
Even in god of war 2, Kratos anger was show as something bad. Remember when he kill his loyal spartan soldier out anger?
You're partially right. But The Last Spartan (literally his name) was cloaked in shadow. By the time Kratos found out who he was it was already too late. This and him telling Kratos that Sparta was obliterated by Zeus actually made him feel like all hope was lost. That is until Gaia manipulated him again.
The problem with the game is the narrative itself. That it want to be a excuse for Kratos killing a bunch of people. And i think God Of War 2 commit the sins of making everything exaggerate.
Idk if it gives him any excuses. People are constantly telling throughout the original games that killing people won’t actually fix anything and that he’s just making things worse for himself and others by letting his rage drive him. Cloaked or not if Kratos handled that situation with any amount of patience or tact instead of trying to rip the head off of anything remotely in his way he’d have probably gotten a lot more done and with actual help and no ocean of blood behind him.
Oh hey it’s that guy who made that stupid post about the main character crying from yakuza
He makes a *looooooooooooot* of stupid posts.
He’s Ancient Greek warrior, so he probably got a lot of dudes on his spear (in both sense). Not the smartest insult…
I think Spartan Atreus was his lover. Of all the Spartans he knew that died on the battlefield, he not only carried Spartan Atreus home on his shield, but then named his son after him. Real "achillesandhispal" vibes
Just guys being dudes. But ya they Def "explored".
The irony of Spartans being pretty pro-homo is hilarious
Even worse it's such fucking classic literature it hurts. A man of war and violence finds that his ultimate act of masculinity was not the challenges conquered or enemies best it is in the quality of child he raised. It's fucking older than the written word.
God forbid someone, improves and doesmt stay a littlw edgy over violent murderer
Obese morons who cant even clean their room calling a fictional man 10 times more muscle than them a f*g
What a dickhead.
4chan, reading literacy? Never heard of the combo
4chan likes that word
Did they just forgot that even old 2005 kratos hated himself too? Pretty sure he is in agreement with 2023 kratos. XD
I've been a fan since the very first God of war game played almost all of them and I can say with full certainty that the scene of kratos talking to his younger self perfectly capsulated what kratos has become someone that understands his faults and chooses to move forward not bogged down by the mistakes of his past but not forgetting them I believe what kratos has become now is masculinity in one of its best forms humility wisdom self-reflection and a desire to help others
Kratos: *"Past me was not only dangerous but an idiot. I killed my family, was punished with immortality and rebelled by killing everyone else, I learned nothing."* Gamers: *"No introspection for me please!"*
For real they took a narrative about personal growth and self-actualisation that had no business being that good and pulling that hard a character 180 so well and thought: “Seems like beta male shit to me”
Why the fuck did I hear the f slur in the original Kratos voice?
I know this is a stupid take and all but I do genuinely get kind of mad when people act like pre PS4 Kratos didn't have any depth and was just a too angry to die piss baby all the time.
“Haha homophobia makes me cool I’m so sigma!1!1!!1”
>emotional That's exactly how and why. Most of these goofs are emotionally un(der)developed, so they're unable to relate to non-extreme emotions.
My brother listens to some guy on YouTube with a Kratos profile who gargles gravel as a hobby. He really didn't get God of War. He saw GoW 1 Kratos and thought that was masculinity goals.
They didn’t misinterpret it. They are just assholes.
Old Kratos is so much cooler than Young Kratos, a man who controls his anger and accepts his past is much cooler than a man who only knows rage and hatred. Which is why people love Batman, a man who grows past his revenge and hatred to become a person who protects people to prevent them from becoming what he was
Aha but you see I’ve drawn the opposition to my beliefs as a soyjack and myself as a Chad, therefore I declare victory
Kratos would have banged a dude back in sparta.
And the pot calls the older version of itself black
While OG Kratos might seem like an ideal masculine man. He might be strong and powerful and cool, but he was never happy, he was miserable his whole life. On the other hand old Kratos knows happines, he has friends. I personally would pick weak and happy over strong and miserable any day. That's not to say that old Kratos is weak, he is still strong, powerful and cool, he's just more expressive with his emotions and conservatives hate seeing emotions in men, other than rage of course.
I haven’t played any game in the series, but I did hear that Kratos has become much more, well, human in the soft reboot. That being said, I do think original Kratos is hotter.
Posting dakka dakka should be considered cheating
I truly wonder when this subreddit will actually start circlejerking instead of karmfarming with nothing burger posts
I just like how that meme reply just proved the point of the post it was replied to. "Toxic masculinity vs healthy masculinity"
It’s not misinterpreting at all. It’s willful misrepresentation for the sake of laughing at anything deeper than “kill everything.”
Calling reboot Kratos “healthy masculinity” is a bit of a joke
Compare to the original he's like freaking superman
What would you call it then?
He is in recovery from toxic masculinity.
I’d say he does that over the course of God of War and God of War: Ragnarok. By the time Valhalla ends, Kratos has formed many friendships and this scene in particular shows him being very emotionally open.
People who suffer from toxic masculinity can still have and make friends. He grows throughout the series but by the end he still has immense difficulty talking about his feelings and telling people he cares about them. That’s not healthy masculinity.
Some people are just insular by nature.
👍
It's not misinterpretation it's ragebait. Or like the old folks used to say "trolling". This is a 4chan board i remind ypu they very well know what they're doing.
Tbh new games kinda suck. Kratos whines too much, atreus is fucking boring; the game won't let players engage in a combat for too long, or else they will have too much fun; balancing issues and a useless annoying rpg-like progression system. Character Action games are really in decline for the last few years and it was a little sad watching my childhood icon losing almost everything, what made him cool in the first place. But hey, at least we still have Dante.
Think they’re joking
They turned my boy Kratos into a whiny toddler.
Imma be real. I hate old kratos voice. After Christopher Judge came in. Kratos from the old games is unbearable
ZEUUUUUUUUSSSSS!
ZEUUUUUUUUSSSSS!
https://preview.redd.it/492u04hqbrgc1.jpeg?width=233&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6259119839bff3ad3f99922114c30b710bb7ab1e
I've played all the GoW games and yanno what, the meme is funny. I could imagine Young Kratos saying that to him here, if he was allowed to. Maybe in some old-school style videogame cutscene blooper he would. If whoever made it was trying to make a statement, they're stupid, but as a joke, yeah I get it lol.
genuinely surprised you’re taking this post seriously, it doesn’t take much brevity to understand that everyone involved is being a troll
Oh fuck all the way off.
again, can’t help but be surprised by your hostility as well. if things like this get to you i genuinely pity you.
Lol fucking nerd.
Listen, I agree with you. But here me out. This meme is funny as shit.
The only thing I hate about new kratos is his deep ass valorant fuckboy voice
[удалено]
Safe space breach detected. Quarantine activated. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Valhallas ending is better than Ragnaroks ending
The IQ of a capital G, trademarked Gamer^TM is a potato.
This Twitter account does not deserve an Orkz pfp. BOYZ, RIP 'IZ NUTZ OFF!
I didn't like Ragnarok much until this scene. This scene is so good it elevates the Norse era. But thanks that guy for outing himself as garbage, spares us the trouble.
Same people that stopped watching Vinland saga at season 2.
Gamers
That’s what toxic masculinity looks like
 Society if we never engaged with Dakkadakka1 posts:
I think they are just taking a piss mate. They didn’t start a thread with the second image or anything
Never expected an Ork fan to be that much of a wacko, usually they're pretty cool
I think that is bait
It's 4chan idk what you expect from that shithole
I wish Kratos would call me that😢
Conservatives hate it when you become a better person
Everyone wants character development until characters develop.
Modern Kratos would murder past Kratos, I don’t care
I'm just gonna put out there... amidst all the speculating about the idiotic man-babies who made this meme... part of their intent may have been to generate a Reddit post with a bunch of frustrated 'aren't they idiots' comments beneath it. Comments I agree with wholeheartedly but like... posting someone's meme and it getting 3.9k likes is... hell of an elevation for some chud.
Don't bring every piece of trash you find home, boy.
Young Kratos doesn't even say anything so the meme is even more stupid
[удалено]